₦airaland Forum

Same thing still happens today, we as xtians have being called into the ministry of intercession
We pray for governments of the nation, we pray for the economies of countries
We don't do it for personal gain but for the peace of the nations and for the furtherance of the gospel
God can do just about anything when an intercessor prays, situations can be changed for the better
So, the purpose of this thread should be understood
We should be xcited when there is a call for prayer

mabell:
I remember a case in the bible, of a king hezekiah, who a prophet was sent to him to announce his death.
When the prophet left, it was recorded that he turned his face to the wall and cried to God for forgiveness
Before the prophet could go far, God answered and told him to go back and tell the king He ad added extra years to his life
Waoh! What an answer to prayers
( I wouldn't mind if someone assists me with the scriptures)

Deep Sight:
^ His response is rather beside the point  - at least as far as the OP is concerned. There is nothing he has said that proves or shows that it is unchristian to pray against or concerning looming warfare, on the grounds that such warfare represents a fulfillment of prophecy.

Christ himself prayed in Gethsemane in spite of the adverse prophecies lined up against or concerning his prayer.

dare2think:
How does my post scatter?
I don't use a black-berry.
Is that what necessitated the term 'black-berry user'? How is it relevant to the discussion?
Anyway,

Mr joagbaje, you are claiming to be a victim but you refuse to say anything when Mabel, Azibulia and others attack other personalities on these forum.
That my friend is double-standard.

dare2think:
@ Deep sight,

I think its Joagbaje's  mention of 'economically' is what stirred up some of the criticism. However, to be fair he did mention ', and otherwise'.

@Joagbaje
What do you mean by blackberry user?

Is that meant to imply anything?

Deep Sight:
Honestly, at the risk of sounding like a broken record and being accussed as ever of defending Pastor Agbaje for dubious reasons, I really must comment on this very preposterous thread.

I have said it time without number that the propensity to overly demonize even the most innocuous statements made by Joagbaje is an unhealthy obsession that leads to absurd discussions. I have really struggled to see the purpose or necessity of the strident denunciations here.

The OP was simple enough. A thing that no religious person could in itself denounce. It very simply averred that war seems to be looming, and urged christians to pray against that. I have racked my brain over and over, but I honestly cannot see how other christians would find such a simple statement so terribly offensive. This is the problem with obsession and demonization.

Have a look at Davidylan's comment. He wrote -

In his first line he says that it is not wrong to pray for peace. He then says that since in this instance, the war had been prophesied, then christians ought not pray against it - since these are part of the signs of the endtimes.

This perplexes me on many levels.

x - If a war looms in Nigeria today, would David and Alethia suggest that it would be wrong for christians to pray against it - in light of the fact that we are in the endtimes, and there must be "wars and rumours of wars" as part of endtime prophecy? ? ?

y - I want to assume David and Aleth would not be so sbsurd as to suggest the foregoing. What then could be their problem with a suggetsion that one should pray against a war in another country? ? ? Could it be the identity of that country? Is that country seen as some sort of anti-christ entity? And regardless of the answer to this question, how is prayer against war unchristian? ? ?

Now here comes the real hammer. A post made by Ogajim which in reality, for every open-eyed observer actually nails away the case made by Aleth and David as dead on arrival. He quotes the prayer in gethsamane -

Here we have someone that these folk all believe to be ALMIGHTY GOD himself - praying and seeking a possibility to avert a prophesied event! Jesus plainly said - "my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me. . ." - thereby clearly making a prayer in spite of prophecy.

What this shows is that from the Christian point of view there could be nothing wrong in being prayerful even REGARDING prophesied events, especially when such events entail great suffering. Prayer always helps, no matter what, at least from the christian point of view. Even where an event is the will of God, prayer can termper it and release grace to help the people in their suffering.

All of this has arisen from a simple call to prayer over impending war. That is very sad indeed. What evil could such a post conceivably entail? Nobody is always right and nobody is always wrong. We should not bring our personal prejudices so heavily to bear on such innocent and innocuous posts such as that contained in the OP.

dare2think:
Mr Joagbaje,.
However, I still find it irresponsible to encourage these innocent men to use their bibles as weapons in the midst of chaos.

You gave a story about your Dad, was the miracle documented? where you present?

Would you go to a gun fight with a bible?

1. The group is focused on a living leader to whom members seem to display excessively zealous, unquestioning
commitment.
2. The group is preoccupied with bringing in new members.

5. Mind-numbing techniques (such as meditation, chanting, speaking in tongues, denunciation sessions, debilitating work routines) are used to suppress doubts about the group and its leader(s).

7. The group is elitist, claiming a special, exalted status for itself, its leader(s), and members (for example: the leader is considered the Messiah or an avatar; the group and/or the leader has a special mission to save humanity).
8. The group has a polarized us-versus-them mentality, which causes conflict with the wider society.
9. The group's leader is not accountable to any authorities (as are, for example, military commanders and ministers, priests, monks, and rabbis of mainstream denominations).
10. The group teaches or implies that its supposedly exalted ends justify means that members would have considered unethical before joining the group (for example: collecting money for bogus charities).
11. The leadership induces guilt feelings in members in order to control them.
12. Members' subservience to the group causes them to cut ties with family and friends, and to give up personal goals and activities that were of interest before joining the group.
13. Members are expected to devote inordinate amounts of time to the group.
14. Members are encouraged or required to live and/or socialize only with other group members.

dare2think:
Can someone explain to me how one 'owns' the world?

Yes Mr Newmi, it is difficult to comprehend.

So, please explain;

What is it that you own?

the world in general?

or its content?

newmi:
To be frank this is not a discussion about Pst. Chris any attempt to bring him in is nothing but a big distraction can we focus on the contextual soul of the topic, anyway there are interesting points you raised l'd love to respond at a much convinient time

davidylan:
1. It is CLEARLY an Oyakhilome doctrine bro, i would appreciate a little honesty from Chris's lapdogs - please see here - http://uspeakoutnow./2011/02/11/yookosyou-own-the-cosmossays-pastor-chris-oyakhilome/

1. Note the clear goal behind the "you own the world" doctrine is the material acquisition of wealth and NOTHING about the salvation of the soul of the hope of Christ's appearing. It is all about

2. Note the insidious lie here - "God willed the world to Abraham and his see" . . . hmmm nowhere does God do so in the bible! The promise to Abraham was to make him a nation through the seed of his son Isaac. God never promised Abraham the whole cosmos at any point. abraham was already a tremendously wealthy man BEFORE God called him or gave him a promise so we know quite clearly the promise had nothing to do with material wealth either.

3. Note the doctrine is itself completely opposite of Christ's constant admonition to keep our gaze focused on things above and not on things below. How can we focus on heaven when we are too busy struggling to show people that we indeed "own the world"? Is anyone surprised that christians now embezzle funds, appropriate lands to themselves, hoard wealth and base the level of their "faith" on the size of their bank accounts? Afterall they own the world now no?

dare2think:
You call the text of the bible trash!

I thought you always wanted a debate base on the 'scriptures'?

Here you are ridiculing it,

If alethea's post is thrash, what do you call your silly assertions that you own the world?

Do you own china?

Funny guy.

aletheia:
^Balaam's ride had more scriptural sense than you! How does Psa 50:12 parlay into "I OWN THE WORLD"? O, I forgot: you are a god.
You are as usual sadly mistaken; in your haste and no doubt clouded by your false "gospel" of greed you fail to understand this:

The world to be inherited is not this present one. . .but that which is to come.

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, [1Pe 1:3-4]

So tell me: Is this present world "an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you"?

Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness. [2Pe 3:13]

And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. [Rev 21:2]

For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God. [Heb 11:10]

But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.[Heb 11:16]

For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come. [Heb 13:14]
And in 2 Pe 3:13 we see:
These things then all being loosed, what kind of persons must you be in holy behavior and piety, expecting and hastening the arrival of the day of God, by which the heavens being set on fire shall be loosed, and the elements being destroyed by fire shall melt away? [2Pe 3:11-12 ABP]

It asks the question what kind of persons must you be: and shows how we should be expecting and hastening the arrival of the day of God  but you would have us pray against God's determined plan and counsel "because it will affect the entire world economically and otherwise."

davidylan:
Odd . . . did you read what i shared as well or you're simply too rooted with steadfastly defending Chris Oyakhilome's position because you think he can never be wrong?

Convoluted, confused nonsense. The promise to Abraham's seed was NOT the world. This is the type of literal, spiritually empty argument you would expect a muslim to make. A myopic focus on literal words and NOT the spirit behind those words. Pls read Genesis 12, where was Abraham promised the world?

chrisj2000:
somebody hacked into my address and requested for my posts to be deleted but I've since changed my passwords. Many people are sick of you people that quote bible like lunatics. Why is it that whenever you people are challenged to backup your claims with prayer, you become offended. Because you know that your god never answer any prayer. Simple. You are serving a dumb useless god.

aletheia:
Jesus says:
For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul? [Mat 16:26]

. . .but Joagbaje says: "I OWN THE WORLD."

mba emeka:
i also saw those videos you posted on reality evangelism and on Pastor Chris' online teachings. When i see them i just take my time to watch them and go on to do other things. I think the ideal way for me to cope with this forum and my busy schedule is to ensure that the thread would be devoid of name callings and vitriol which as we have seen, nairaland cannot guarantee.

mba emeka:
I pray for the nations around the world, for the rulers, for the citizens. I declare peace-the peace of God that surpasses all understanding to envelope the nations. The USA and IRAN are delivered from wicked and unreasonable people that dont know the gospel and by extension other nations including my beloved Nigeria.

I declare that uterrance be granted many christians so that they would preach the gospel without fear or favour in and around those nations.

You told us in your word that, us, christians are the salt of the earth and i have looked at my life and i have found it to be so. Hence i'm asking you to restrain the hearts of wicked men so that more avenues would be created to  reach out to many. Its my right as your son to preserve the world and i'm observing it.

I pray that you flood the light of the ignorant with the wisdom of your word so that they too could like all the saints understand your depth, height, width and length of your love even though it cannot be fully understood.

I ask this in Jesus' name. Amen.

@joagbaje

i'm sure by now you would have noticed that these lot dont know the word even though they quote scripture tirelessly. for anyone who knows the word would know that prayer can change anything, i dear say.

I keep being referred to the story of moses and the king of moab when i hear all these "dont bother praying fors" because the thought of it goes against the very tenets of the glorious gospel.

God felt restrained from effacing his people by the prayer of Moses. The same goes for the Moabite king.

We can, and i mean christians can put forward any situation, postpone, quell any situation we find unfavourable to the preaching of the gospel-economy included.

It is highly comical that someone who claims to be a firstclass microbiologist/pharmacist christian living in the US would be hoping for a war and allaying such wicked thoughts on the premise of "Jesus prophecied it". (even when its crystal clear he was refering to the tribulation). Talk about firstclass hypocrisy!