₦airaland Forum

Martian:
You admit that witchcraft is real, ergo witches are real,but you disagree that the craft can be passed onto someone unconciously. That's fine, but the christian belief is that demons/spirits can possess people willingly or unwillingly and you also said that most chritians with at least 10years of service can attest to this fact. Well, if people can be possesed without asking for it, that means withcraft can be passed down to children unwillingly. This is "trancendental reality"we are talking about so obviously witchcraft being passed down trhough an intake of food is very possible and not farfetched. We also have Natasha who has confessed to being an ex witch and we also have an esteemed pastor ( maybe you don't think so but CEC memebers do) telling us that he has encountered such.
Their position is backed by the bible that says witches and wizards are real and also talks about spiritual possesion while you resort to your interpretation that excludes the possiblity of child witches.

If demons exist and can posses people unwillingly, then witchcraft which is another form of "evil" should also be able to be passed down through "spiritual" means instead of instructions.

[b]Jude 1:8-10

We know the cause of his instability.

I know of several cases of church members who were initiated by innocently eating demonically infested food given to them by those who practice witchcraft.There was a particular church where thirty children were initiated by eating candy given to them by another child who was into witchcraft.

It is very important or ministers to get to scrutinise and know who handles the children in church.

I am by no means advocating that brethren should stop eating food given by other brethren. I however strongly admonish that you make sure you are led by the Spirit of God in everything you do and that you sanctify every meal with prayer and thanksgiving. 1 Tim. 4:5

you are right . That's the place of teaching . When children are introduced to the lord early enough, and they are also taught the word of God, it will be hard for the enemy to get them.

This minister, a man in his sixties, left our mouths opened wide as he told us about an encounter he had with a witch in his church in the state of Pennsylvania.A married woman in his church called for him to come and visit her and her husband to help them resolve a family dispute. Not knowing she was the only one at home, he went there without his wife or any of the elders. When he rang the door bell, the lady came to the door with no clothes on. She said, "Come in Pastor." He quickly ran back to the car and headed back home to tell his wife what had befallen him.

Kenneth hagin had almost exact experience. The lady had set him up. But he had gone there with his wife.

It's not moderators fault ,it's the programming .Some people work their way round it by beating the system by deliberate wrong spelling like "Mastubation"

The worst of such experience was when the thing changed a bible passage I posted. I was shocked . How can a bible passage be changed by machine ?

@ Natasha

Natasha,,:


@Joagbaje Its funny how some people deny the truth.

I don't think their case is a case of denial of truth but rather IGNORANCE of truth.

frosbel:
How do you know if a Child has a witch

Two common ways children get into it. Is through food or dedication. They do their own evangelism as we do ours. When they give a child such things his soul lust after. (a cursed food). The child finds himself in the coven in their midst at night. The next thing is not try and initiate the child by drinking blood. On the drinking of the blood ,the initiation takes place. Demons will enter into them. It is this demons that make such a child do wicked things. Some have killed family members,destroyed pregnancies ,ground vehicles, business . And all manner of wickedness you can imagine. The child is actually "inocent" or rather a victim as well. The demons needs a body to operate. Some children on their own will open up when an anointed minister talks with them. Because some of them wants to come out of it but fear hold them back.They usually  give them fearful instructions, like "YOU WILL DIE IF YOU TELL ANYONE"

It's not just children . This thing doesn't know age. You can dictect some of them by their action. Some do certain physical wicked things . When a christian counsellor talks with them in love ,they may open up. You will be amazed to hear a little child give specific dates of events in the family ,how many people he has killed or made sick , one made a little baby sick ,he confessed and said he put something in the baby and that if he removes it ,the baby will be well , he did ,and the baby who had been sick for days instantly became. Well.

Some people know them by discernment also. Like paul did

Acts 16:17-18
. . .  The same followed Paul and us, and cried, saying, These men are the servants of the most high God, which shew unto us the way of salvation. 18 And this did she many days. But Paul, being grieved, turned and said to the spirit, I command thee in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her And he came out the same hour.

Simeon others are dictected when the spirits manifest in them during prayers. or in an atmosphere where the anointing of Gods spirit is at work.

and do you condone the equally devilish , cruel and barbaric methods used to 'exorcise' the spirits, if at all there are any ??

Of course I don't.  The children are not the enemy. At the same time we can't deny the fact of wrong accusations among certain feshly people. But for the children who are into this thing, they are not the enemy .The witchcraft spirit or demons in them is the enemy .To help such, we ought to first love such children, The first deliverance is salvation . Sharing the message of Gids love to them , and assuring them that they won't die if they come out of it.  Most of the time after being born again , there is instant freedom. But in case the child still experience them you may need to cast the devil out by simply using the name of Jesus. Sometimes the spirit will even shout through such person saying "THIS IS MY HOUSE,LEAVVE US ALONE. HE/SHE BELONGS TO ME". "I WILL KILL HIM" etc

I have 2 answers . 1 . As a christian ,the gospel is the answer to transform and cleanse the society . But for the jungle justice, it depends. We see many criminals set free in law courts . But it depends on the crime. A cold blooded murderer ,serial killer needs to be taken out, nit necessarily fir justice but to protect others. Just like Osama bin laden.

But as I said earlier ,the gospel is solution.

Natasha,,:
and if you care to know it was my grand mother who passed it on to me

Leave them in their ignorance. It's called spiritual blindness,  A sensible person should have humbled himself at least investigate what he doesn't know. Instead of arrogant empty utterances.

I've had opportunity to help such children gain freedom from such coven of darkness .all that is required is the simple faith in the name of Jesus. But denial that such evil exist is stupid ignorance.

Newmi , where are you ? . Your bomboy is loosing some nuts o. Pls come

^^^

You call that malicious question ? I wasn't joking? As far I'm concerned ,a plane ,chopper etc is just a vehicle . If a man has need of it and has the money, what is anybody headache with it? If private jet is wrong, what of private car?

You have been the one disgracing yourself dude. Why im I even wasting my time with him?

garyarnold:
Nowhere in God's Word did God give Melchizedek permission to receive His tithe.

Nowhere in Gods word did God condemn tithes and offerings nor put an end to it.

You are the one that is ignorant. There are several use of the word. And any knowledgeable person should know the difference between the spiritual witchcraft and this your "learning" thing. They two different things. Medical practice can fall into this your so call craft. But that's not the context of this thread nor my post. Demons are real, spirit realm is real. And a new creation has authority over them all.

. . . Casting the whole of your care [all your anxieties, all your worries, all your concerns once and for all] on Him, for he cares for you affectionately and cares about you watchfully 1 Peter 5:7AMP.

There’re people who have a proclivity for worrying; for them, worrying is a lifestyle. They’re often burdened about their families, jobs, money, and generally overwhelmed by the cares of this life. This isn’t the way of life for the Christian. Our opening scripture reveals God’s thoughts concerning you. He wants you to cast the whole of your cares – all your anxieties, worries and concerns on him – once and for all.

You’re not to surfeit yourself with the cares of this world, but to leave them at the feet of the Master. Don’t cast your worries on Him in the morning and take them back in the afternoon, or start worrying again by night time. You can’t live your life that way. Someone once said, “I worry a little bit about my problems and let God worry about the rest.” No, don’t worry at all! Cast all your worries on him. Whatever it is that bothers you, lay it down before Him.

Psalms 25:8 says:
“Good and upright is the LORD:”

which is to say the Lord is good, and He is to be trusted. So trust in Him and depend on Him solely and wholeheartedly to help you and put you over every difficult situation. It’s His pleasure to do this, for He cares for you affectionately and watches over you lovingly. He’s always mindful of you, not to destroy you, but to help you be all that He created you to be. He didn’t create you to fail, but that your life will be to the praise and glory of His Name.

The Lord is passionate about your victory and success more than you could ever know, and He has put everything in place for you to live joyfully and experience His glory everyday of your life. Yours is to trust in Him with all your heart, and do what the Word says and He’ll perfect all that concerns you.

Confession
Dear Father, thank you for the efficacy of your Word, and its ability to mould my character and cause me to live in ever-increasing glory, grace and victory! I rejoice greatly today because I know you love me dearly and rejoice over me with singing. Therefore, I go forth today without a care, trusting you absolutely to meet all my needs, and perfect all that concerns me, in Jesus’ Name. Amen.

Further Study
Jeremiah 29:11
For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, saith the LORD, thoughts of peace, and not of evil, to give you an expected end.

Psalm 115:12
The LORD hath been mindful of us: he will bless us; he will bless the house of Israel; he will bless the house of Aaron.

Pastor AIO:
One correction, born again is not 'recieving eternal life which is in Christ'. Born again is awakening of the spiritual faculties of the human constitution.

What is your reference? What do you say about this scripture ?

1 John 5:11-12
11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

@wordtalk

wordtalk:
In 1 Corinthians 9:13, Paul did not make omissions, and the point was indeed in answer to your request for "even ONE example in the NT where the Levitical system of tithing was used to as a principle to encourage giving". If the citation of 1 Corinthians 9:13 does not answer your request, please tell me what system other than the Levitical system Paul was referring to in that verse.

Specifically, the parallel passage in Numbers 18 was about the tithes in the Levitical system - and that is the same thing concerning the Levitical system in Hebrews 7 which mentions tithing rather than other types of resources for support.

True, there were various offerings (such as the heave and wave offerings in Numbers 18:8 & 11); yet, whatever they offered were in principle found in verse 21, where the Levites are in view - "I have given the children of Levi all the tenth in Israel for an inheritance, for their service which they serve, even the service of the tabernacle of the congregation" (KJV).

It is therefore not difficult to see what Paul was pointing to in 1 Corinthians 9:13 in reference to those who served particularly in the Temple and the Altar.

Further, the tithes of Israel bore the character of a heave offering according to Numbers 18:24 - "the tithes of the children of Israel, which they offer as an heave offering unto the LORD, I have given to the Levites to inherit, " etc. It shows that Israel's tithes were offered as a heave offering in this verse. The question rather would be to seek out the basic meaning of a 'heave offering'. Do this and let's compare our notes.

My answers were also straightforward - and I went further to show you the difference between the letter of the law and the spirit of the law as a principle. I feel that the difficulty here is not one of communication, but of how you read these things. If one reads them simply in black and white, then it is no wonder to find you highlighting each type or name of offerings - which is why I have just pointed out above from Numbers 18:24 that Israel's tithes were viewed as a heave offering rather than separate the one from the other.

How do you mean?

Oh, I see. Have you read me over and again make the point of HERMENEUTICS and EXEGESIS? If you're basically about a methodology, I'd like to remind you of what I said earlier: "There is no problem with seeking a Biblical principle - ask a sound theologian what it means in Biblical hermeneutics and exegesis." In short, the methodology I have used is that which theologians are well at home with in their hermeneutics.

Please see again the difference between 'the letter of the law' and the 'spirit of the law' in order to find the basic meaning of a Biblical principle. When you do so, you perhaps will go away happy to know that Israel's tithes were viewed as a heave offering rather than a separation between them - see Numbers 18:24.

I find discussing with you interesting enough, so no humours there.

The references for all intents and purposes were first in answer to your request that I bring forth "even ONE example in the NT where the Levitical system of tithing was used to as a principle to encourage giving". In so far as that was the initial request, 1 Corinthians 9:13 shows that Paul was pointing to the Levitical system of tithing as a principle to encourage giving - at any rate, that verse points to the Levitical system. if you feel otherwise, please let me know what other "system" he might possibly have been referring to than the Levitical system. Perhaps, from there you might begin to see the gist about the said principle.

You have said more than enough. There is no place where tithing was condemned or nullified . You don't need to respond to malicious questions that dont make sense.  It's waste of time . Some just keep going in circles trying to wear you out or trap you.

2 Timothy 2:23
23 But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.

Luke 11:53-54
53 And as he said these things unto them, the scribes and the Pharisees began to urge him vehemently, and to provoke him to speak of many things: 54 Laying wait for him, and seeking to catch something out of his mouth, that they might accuse him.

Im sure as far as you are concerned there is no devil . Don't just it in front of a computer guys. The spirit realm is real . A wise man should make findings before spuing rubbish. It's common sense for you to make your findings.

Witchcraft has always been in existence . Your denial of it shows your ignorance.

2 Chronicles 33:6
6 And he caused his children to pass through the fire in the valley of the son of Hinnom: also he observed times, and used enchantments, and used witchcraft, and dealt with a familiar spirit, and with wizards: he wrought much evil in the sight of the Lord, to provoke him to anger.

divinereal:
Witches are real? Are you serious? Do you live in the world that I live in or in the dark ages? When will my people wake up? AFRICA WAKE UP!!! It is is a big shame that your eyes have been blinded by nonsensical superstition. People like the one I quoted disgust me with thier ignorance and must be shamed!!
One thing that I AM 100% SURE ABOUT is that on the charge of WITCHCRAFT ALL THE CHILDREN ARE INNOCENT!!! There is nothing like withcraft in the sense that some nigerians envision it to be. THis is CHILD ABUSE and the parents and ministers SHOULD be prosecuted.

Dont talk about what you dont undrstand. witchcraft is real. not only in africa. even in the developed america. dont be ignorant. The thing that i dont approve of here is the abuse of the children by their parents.

wordtalk:
^^ This was why I claimed ignorance earlier for you to tell me. To me, such a question presupposes another: when did Cornelius (and his household for that matter) become "believers" if this equates to the same thing as having been born again?

What I could say is that Cornelius was not considered born again before Peter was sent to tell him words by which he should be saved; otherwise it would make Acts 11:13-14 meaningless, incoherent at best. Cornelius was not waiting to hear words from Peter by which the former was already saved; rather, he (Cornelius) was to hear words from Peter by which the former should be saved.

youve answered it already. dont allow anyone to confuse you. cornelius was not born again until he met peter. he was a believer in judaism.  being born again is to recieve eternal life which is in christ.

1 John 5:11-12
11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

Simple question , had cornelius received christ before meeting Peter? No. Had he recieved eternal life? No. He God born again and filled with the spirit at the preaching of Peter.

frosbel:
It is sad that the name of Christ is blaphemed because of these crazy people.

Because of the prosperity pimps, child abusers, catholic crusades and others , the name of Christ is maligned among the heathen.

Here we go again. WhAt has this got to do with prosperity. Why do you hate prosperity and use every opportunity to attack it. Is prosperity of the devil,

Besides the torture on those children is from their families .

We can't deny that witchcraft is real.  Either in child or adult. But the gospel is what is required to solve it. Those who go into turture and kill witches are acting on old testament scriptures.

Exodus 22:18
18 "Never let a witch live.

I've encountered some of these child witchcraft cases. Some of them even freely confess the evil they did. Which enrage the anger of such frustrated  parents. And I tell you they can really be very wicked. 

The truth of the matter is that witchcraft is not a person but a spirit. The person being tutured
is also a victim in the dark kingdom. Many of them want to leave witchcraft but fear holds them back. Some got it through grandma ,some got it through taking cursed sweets from classmates.

Solution to it is simple salvation through christ. Firstly you must love them , and minister Jesus to them. If there need be. Cast out the witchvraft spirit out of them. But the torture is not necessary because you only torture the human being and not the witchcraft spirit itself.   

We should avoid the two extremes. It is unscritptural to label people witches the way some prophets do.  If the holyghost reveals witchcraft ,the same holyghost should be able to set the  victim  free just like paul did to the slave girl who was a witch following paul.

Acts 16:17-18
17 The same followed Paul and us, and cried, saying, These men are the servants of the most high God, which shew unto us the way of salvation. 18 And this did she many days. But Paul, being grieved, turned and said to the spirit, I command thee in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her And he came out the same hour.

One extreme see wiches every where the other extreme denies the existence of witchcraft . We have to be careful that Satan won't use occasions like this to promote laws that will eventually hinder captives being set free. Some few churches might have acted wrongly but that doesn't take away the fact that real deliverance is taking place in many churches.

. . .And it came to pass, when Moses held up his hand, that Israel prevailed: and when he let down his hand, Amalek prevailed Exodus 17:11.

Our opening scripture refers to an account in the Bible where Moses told Joshua to take soldiers and go fight Amalek. Joshua did as Moses instructed, but as for Moses, he decided to go to the top of the hill, with Aaron and Hur whilst Joshua battled the Amalekites. As the battle progressed, Aaron and Hur made a remarkable observation.

Now, God hadn’t said to Moses to lift up his hands but Aaron and Hur discovered that every time Moses’ hands went up as they were on the mountain, Israel prevailed in battle against Amalek. But when His hands came down, Amalek prevailed. So it was about Moses’ hands. The victory-power for the children of Israel in that particular battle, as it were, was through the hands of Moses. In the twelfth verse, Aaron and Hur, upon noticing that Moses was getting weak, made him sit down while they both held his two hands up, one of them on either side until it was sun-down.

God’s people having the victory as long a Moses’ hands were lifted towards heaven reveals something quite significant about the lifting of our hands to the Lord. There’s a profuse effusion of divine power as we lift our hands in prayer and worship. No wonder the Apostle Paul said,

“I would that men pray everywhere, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting” (1 Timothy 2:.

So when you lift your hands up to the Lord and pray, you activate the heavenly powers and make them available in your behalf. And while your hands are still lifted high, you’ll begin to receive victory signals in your spirit.

Right away you may as well as well lift hands towards heaven and talk to the Lord in prayer. Worship Him from the depths of your heart, forgetting about yourself and whatever turbulent or challenging situation you might be in. Do this, knowing that your victory is inevitable as you worship and praise Him in the beauty of holiness, with your hands lifted high.

Confession
Dear Father, thank you for helping me through your Word and your Spirit to discover all you’ve deposited in me. I lift my hands to you right now in appreciation and acknowledgement of your wondrous love for me and great miracles in my life! I declare that the lifting of my hands would continually be to you as the evening sacrifice, as you lead me daily in triumphant processions, in Jesus’ Name. Amen.

Further Study
Psalms 141:2
Let my prayer be set forth before thee as incense; and the lifting up of my hands as the evening sacrifice.

2 Corinthians 2:14
Now thanks be unto God, which always causeth us to triumph in Christ, and maketh manifest the savour of his knowledge by us in every place.

@putti

putti:
Hey Jo

Ok I am a CEC member and I would like to tell all people the CE does have inner city mission. They have something called ICM Academy which offers free education to people from poorer backrounds. The website is: http://www.theinnercitymission.org/icm_academy.php It is a means of winning souls. And yes I am a partner of it because I believe in reaching the poor, but you cannot tell the poor Jesus loves them and not help them in the physical. As christains it is our responsibility to reach as many people as we can for Jesus. Soul winning is our number one job and by providing free schools etc this is one way of reaching out to the unreachable.

In addition of this, I advocate free church schools because you can teach them the word of God from an early age.

God Bless you anyway, I been following you and mabell on the nairaland.

Don't mind our wonderful critics here who sits down in front if a computer without any meaningful contribution either to life or to the gospel but are only busy criticising those who are at least doing something for God.

Pls let me have your contact through my mail below. Thanks for the links. Let truth prevail. God bless.

pelezico:
i herald from the UK and i know where my giving goes (we have bi anual finance meeting where our givings are discussed and we are charity status - which means the tax man has an eye on us) so i dont have the hang ups that many of you have - but i would feel just the same as many of you and would not give .


Our church supports many fellowships world wide - we are not wealthy by some peoples standards but we give.  We support churches directly in nigeria lagos Sierra Leone, South Africa, Namibia, Italy, Spain, and in the UK quite a few.  

for instance my friend who was a doctor contracting around London just came off of support.  When he was in support he took care of financing his church and family workign part time as a medical doctor while pastoring . He was Pastoring a new church our from the mother church though the building and some expenses are supported by the mother church.  

Out Pastor wants every pioneering pastor to be off support within i think 4 years.  If international we tend to support alot longer.  It depends on the needs.  The pastor will sometimes have to find a job there so to help to take the burden off teh mother church.

We have struggled and have had to sell some houses that we bought to put up single ladies and men who had know place to stay.

We are still struggling but thats life and Gods helping the church.  People are being blessed.

We dont emphasise on posterity at all - though due to people losing jobs in the uk pastor has started to address this.

So i know where the church finances go -

By the way we support the churches in the uk and international by sending impact teams regular doing stuff like drama, cnoncerts, choir and full on preaching.  So because we are in a church that requires people to get involved we dont complain about where the money goes.

tell them o. To some folks, church is seen as business. not knowing the many sacrifices ministers make just to reach others for jesus.

it does happen ,if there is no activity in the mouth , water ,saliva etc.

@5star

5STAR:
I am forced to come back here because as i read some posts, it really grieves my heart, and i wish in my heart of hearts that we will all come to the knowledge of the Truth.

please stay jare. many are being enlightened through your posta already.

Cornelius was not saved before peter met him, He was a proselyte, and even Jews still need a Savior na, haba!


2) TO BE BORN AGAIN IS TO BE BORN OF THE SPIRIT, TO BELIEVE THAT GOD GAVE HIS SON AS RANSOM FOR SIN,TO HAVE DECLARED JESUS AS LORD AND SAVIOR,TO HAVE REPENTED FROM YOUR OLD SINFUL WAYS (AND TO BE WORKING WITH GOD ACCORDING TO HIS WILL) it is an ever present condition because salvation can be lost

please turn your cheek , take this, .muaaah!, .
God bless you.

i hope it was really manufactured here, because sometimes the claim for manufacture is nothing but assembling. just like the pan peugeot . but if this is really a manufacturing, i really commend them . i once drove behind one of them on my way to lagos last year or early this year, i was really shocked at the brand name . " INNOSON" i said this name sounds nigerian. but i didmissed the idea that probably they ordered for some buses to be branded in their name just like the popular abacha TV. God bless nigeria.

inedi:
how do you explain luke 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me. because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor;
my question is what is wrong in teaching a Christian that is born again how to prosper through the principles of prosperity that is in the bible.

It depends on your definition of prosperity. If its a general well being fine. What a new convert needs to know is the assurance of salavation, how to deal with sin, how to study the word of God, how to grow, how to pray, faith, church attemdace,and finally how to witness Jesus to others.

Question,Which one is it right; for a pastor to drive private car or public bus?

putti:
Broz Christ embassy Inner City mission provides schools for the poor.

You're right pastor chris does a lot of charity work and grants free education to many  . Cec as a body does charity work. I personally do too. But that is not the primary work of the church. It is the governent responsibility to give free education. that's my point.

davidylan:
But it was the church's duty to provide for everyone according to their need in the book of acts right?

Let me make this clear. When the church was under persecution. They had to hide from authorities. There shared What they had to eat becasue they were being hunted. It was a survival mode. But when the tension eased the rules changed. They must work to eat. No more free meals!.

2 Thessalonians 3:10-11
10 For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat. 11 For we hear that there are some which walk among you disorderly, working not at all, but are busybodies.
That's not true .

Show me in the bible where God's mandate for the church included fleecing the flock.

It's all over the scriptures . The flock has to be fleeced to that they can produce more wool. It is 50 50 win win for the sheep and the shepheard!

Show me in the bible where any of the early apostles lived fat on the giving of the poor.

I think you should show me. Because it's from your mouth I'm hearing this .

yommyuk:
. But one thing I know for sure (100%) is that such practices are absolutely prohibted by the Church and christian belief.

I agree with you.