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Christianity Etc › Re: Tithes - Does God Want The Tithes Of Money? by Joagbaje(m): 12:05pm On Aug 12, 2011

Febup:
29.Hebrews 7:5
And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham

I don't really get the point you're trying to make here

Christianity Etc › Re: Tithes - Does God Want The Tithes Of Money? by Joagbaje(m): 11:15am On Aug 12, 2011

Febup:
29.Hebrews 7:5
And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham

We are told that the sons of Levi have a commandment to collect tithes in the new Testament.

Where in the Bible does it say that pastors have a commandment to collect tithes from Christians If any tithe proponent can show it to me, not by manipulation of the scriptures, then I will start paying my tithes to any pastors you nominate so that me too can start reaping the reward of tithing you guys have been telling us about

1 Corinthians 9:13-14
13 Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar? 14 Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.

Christianity Etc › Re: Tithes - Does God Want The Tithes Of Money? by Joagbaje(m): 11:00am On Aug 12, 2011

wordtalk:
In EVERY type of offering, it is men that die who receive them. God did not personally come down to receive your own offering in any way - unless you are bent on proving that YOU do not give at all! Please show me WHEN and WHERE you have ever given anything directly into the hand of God - did He ever come down to your address to receive it physically by Himself?

Men receive things from other men - there is no argument against that. Show me when God came down to receive yours in a different way!

- "but there he receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth". Please tell me: of whom is it witnessed that HE LIVETH?

Again I ask: of whom is it witnessed that "HE LIVETH"? It's easy to see your doubts about the witness of Christ who LIVES.

Thats the point .

Christianity Etc › Re: What Does "born Again" and born of "water" Mean? by Joagbaje(m): 10:58am On Aug 12, 2011

^^^^
The point is the fact that the word is the spiritual water. And being born of water is being born of the word.

Maybe you should explain being born of water to us.

Christianity Etc › Re: Should I Have Stayed Back In This Church? by Joagbaje(m): 10:42am On Aug 12, 2011

@oluti

Should I have stayed back in the church when it was obvious the G.O would not have tolerated my critical view

You should not have left him. That could have been the reason you were there. There are people we need in our world , and If those people back out ,things may come down crashing. A man of God may not be 100% perfect . He need to also recognise the grace upon those people who God has blessed him with. Either as fellow ministers or surbordinates .David had counsellors like ahithiopel .Kenneth Hagin had ministers friends whom he share thoughts , revelations and ideas with. Even when he feels led of God , he still allows his friends to judge him. Just in case he is hearing a wrong voice.

William Marion braham was endowed with great prophetic and miraculous creative healing anointing. But he didn't have so much grace in teaching the bible. Sometimes he even teach erroneously. But he has Gordon Lindsay whom God use to help him out , doctrinally and in other things because Gordon was sound in scriptures. But when Gordon left him, things came down crashing and not only the ministry , braham died too early also.

People that God has called to help some other ministers sometimes don't know how powerful their call is. Since they seem to always be in the background. It's a place of power , it's a place of intercession and sacrifice . Some don't even know how to operate in such offices. They may tend to enter gossip about the G.O instead of praying. They may become negatively confrontational or critical instead of admonishing in humility. They may tend to pollute other people's mind against the G.O. Unconsciously and that will destroy the relationship.

So I think you ought to have stayed. Even if the man rejected your advice. You should have gone into deep intercession for him. Prayer always work . Your faithfulness would have caused greater grace to abound. Now nobody wins . Satan seem to be smiling somewhere . Ministry unfulfilled.

You could only have left if God had said "SON YOUR TIME IS UP HERE"

Christianity Etc › Live To Give - Pastor Anita by Joagbaje(op): 10:19am On Aug 12, 2011

. . .I have shewed you all things, how that so labouring ye ought to support the weak, and to remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he said, It is more blessed to give than to receive Acts 20:35.

The Lord Jesus, teaching in Luke 6:28 said

“Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom…”

He thus established a spiritual principle which implies the more you give, the more you’d receive. This principle makes giving a channel through which God blesses you materially. As we read in our opening scripture, from our labour or work, we should support the weak through giving, for it’s more blessed to give than to receive.

God already took the responsibility to supply all your needs; not through the labour of your hands, but according to His riches in glory by Christ Jesus (Philippians 4:19). So it would be wrong to rely on the income from your job for your life’s sustenance. There’re people who say the reason they work is to make a living, but that’s not what the Word teaches, it lets us know why we ought to work:

“Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth” Ephesians 4:28.

Giving is so important to God, and givers are very special to Him. He always responds to givers. Take for example the account of the Roman centurion in Luke 7:3-10. The Bible records that one day, the elders of the Jews pleaded with Jesus to heal his sick servant. Ordinarily, the Jews shouldn’t have anything to do with this Roman centurion because he was a Gentile. But they sought the Lord on his behalf because the man was a giver. Jesus responded and healed the centurion’s servant after they informed Him of how he had built them a synagogue.

Givers will always move the heart of God. God appeared to Solomon and gave him a “blank cheque,” only after Solomon offered to the Lord one thousand burnt offerings (1 Kings 3:3-5). Always cash-in on every opportunity to give in the house of God. Be prompt to pay your tithes, your first-fruit offerings, special seed offerings and other free-will offerings. Never let opportunities to give pass you by unutilized.

As you give, not only will the Lord multiply your seeds sown, He’ll also increase your capacity to give, so that you can have more. So for the giver, it’s a win-win situation:

“And God is able to make all grace abound toward you; that ye, always having all sufficiency in all things, may abound to every work.” 2 Corinthians 9:8.

Confession
I’m a cheerful, joyous and prompt-to-do-it giver whose heart is in his giving. I’m a partner with God in the expansion of His Kingdom through my finances. I was born for this purpose, and I bring hope, succour and joy to millions around the world through my giving, in the Name of Jesus. Amen.

Further Study
2 Corinthians 9:6
But this I say, He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully.

Proverbs 3:9-10
Honour the LORD with thy substance, and with the firstfruits of all thine increase: So shall thy barns be filled with plenty, and thy presses shall burst out with new wine.

Christianity Etc › Re: Tithes - Does God Want The Tithes Of Money? by Joagbaje(m): 9:39am On Aug 12, 2011

Febup:
Are pastors Melchizedek Malachi 3:10 that pastors are using to collect tithes relates to the levites and not the tithe Abram gave to Melchizedek as we are not told that Abram's tithe to Melchizedek will open the windows of heaven and pour out any blessing for Abram.

It is christ that is the high priest who recieves the tithes not the pastors.

Christianity Etc › Re: What Does "born Again" and born of "water" Mean? by Joagbaje(m): 9:24am On Aug 12, 2011

aletheia:
^
I believe you are conflating two different things.
Being born again is to be born of the Word.
(1Pet 1:23 [KJV])
Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

Being born of water is to be born of flesh and blood.
. . .but is "the word most times represented by water"? I think that should read "sometimes".
Eph 5:26, Titus 3:5, John 15:3

Water baptism doesn't save . As you rightly quoted. The word of God is spiritual water .

Ephesians 5:26
26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,

Hebrews 10:22
22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

John 15:3
3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.

Christianity Etc › Re: Your Bilble And Your Phone by Joagbaje(m): 8:01pm On Aug 11, 2011

My phone . But what about you? Op

Christianity Etc › Re: I 'm Happy To Be Exploited By Oyedepo-a Loyal Church Member by Joagbaje(m): 7:39pm On Aug 11, 2011

wordtalk:
- No. That is not the 'whole aim' of our new birth. Romans 8:29 perhaps provides us with an answer: God wants to conform us to the image of His Son, Jesus Christ.

To be comform to the image of his son. I've never heard any matured language like this on Nairaland . Grace be upon you

Christianity Etc › Re: What Does "born Again" and born of "water" Mean? by Joagbaje(m): 10:18am On Aug 11, 2011

Being born of water is to be born of the word. The word is represented most times by water

Christianity Etc › Re: 4 Pastors Arrested For Unthinkable Crimes by Joagbaje(m): 10:03pm On Aug 10, 2011

Where did you get your 80% statistic from? Bible? How can you a christian join all these unbelievers to be insulting the body?

Our respect for ministers is not based on their perfection but rather the office. The respect David had for Saul was underserving fleshly wise ,but daivd knew better. If you must flow in the anointing ,you must respect the anointing. The high priest in Pauls day was carnal but paul still gave him respect by the virtue of the office.

Acts 23:4
4 And they that stood by said, Revilest thou God's high priest? 5 Then said Paul, I wist not, brethren, that he was the high priest: for it is written, Thou shalt not speak evil of the ruler of thy people.

And by this I'm not justifying wrong doing from any minister. But you don't have to commit another sin because ofvanother mans sin.

Christianity Etc › Re: I 'm Happy To Be Exploited By Oyedepo-a Loyal Church Member by Joagbaje(m): 8:40pm On Aug 10, 2011

You've said it all God bless you

Phones › Re: Itunes Now In Nigeria - Thank God! by Joagbaje(m): 12:54pm On Aug 10, 2011

omafones:
As many of you now know Apple has finally recognized Nigeria in their iTunes Store.

I have now registered for iTunes in Nigeria, using my Nigerian address, email address and a Nigerian registered visa debit card. i have even bought a .99c app using my Nigerian debit card - took only a few minutes.

However I don't seem to be able to find any music for sale. There are loads of books, there Nigerian themed apps and other more traditional apps, but i can't find any music. Even when i search my the name of the artist all i get is books or apps about the artist, no music and neither are there any films.

Am I missing something here? has anyone out there used the Nigerian iTunes? what is your experience.

Thank you so much for this. I have been waiting for this for many years. Does that mean we can get all those other applications, games , audio books etc

Crime › Re: Jungle Justice Is It Justifiable? by Joagbaje(m): 9:03am On Aug 10, 2011

tunnytox:
How will you know if the victim is innocent or guilty while all you respond to is someone shouting ole! any justice system now matter how good should ensure innocent are saved from undeserved punishment. it is better to allow 10 criminals to escape than to punish just one innocent because that innocent could be YOU!

So are you saying jungle justice is okay if the person is confirmed to be a real killer or robber?

Now, Dealing with mistaken identity is a different thing. Even in the court of law. Innocent victims have been sententced and killed. Do we take away court judgement on that account?

I'm not advocating anything , I just want it to be reasoned out from every side.

Crime › Re: Jungle Justice Is It Justifiable? by Joagbaje(m): 8:57am On Aug 10, 2011

@ Johndoe100

Johndoe100:
There is nothing like jungle justice, just plain old MURDER. Why this is practised in NIgeria is because the law enforcement agents are weak and inefficient.
It can NEVER be condoned, this is what really seperates a nationed and a failed state.

Is death sentence murder? What of self defence killing? What of the killing of Osama ?

Christianity Etc › Re: 4 Pastors Arrested For Unthinkable Crimes by Joagbaje(m): 5:28am On Aug 10, 2011

frosbel:
80% of Nigerian Pastors are opportunists and wolves in sheep clothing.

Shame to them !!!

its a shame a christian talks of ministers like this.

Sweetnecta:
@Frosbel; « #1 on: Today at 02:01:06 PM »the remaining 20% are what, now, one of the two? yet these are the people you follow. shame on you. i want your resignation letter from christianity, today.

Christianity Etc › Re: How My Brother Died In Your Church by Joagbaje(m): 5:12pm On Aug 09, 2011

^^^^

No-o . You said it in the post you quoted

Please kindly detail the terms of my brother's employment and service with your ministry. As far as I am concerned, my brother was overwhelmingly overworked in your organisation.

Christianity Etc › Re: Should Christians Fail? by Joagbaje(m): 4:42pm On Aug 09, 2011

Christians fail through the lack of knowledge and lack of faith

Christianity Etc › Re: "Why Evangelicals Should Stop Evangelizing" by Joagbaje(m): 2:40pm On Aug 09, 2011

JeSoul:
Your question is irrelevant for 2 reasons:

^1. Who is going to argue that Paul was righteous by the standards of the Law (leading christians to their death is a huge disqualifier you know)? He obviously wasn't - he thought he was - that is what Phil 3 is saying. And more importantly
^2.I have never argued that anyone can be made righteous by the following the Law - you're the one reading that into my posts - I have said faith which must result in works.
You're sure the bible didn't say so? From the same Heb 11 vs31 "By faith the LovePeddler Rahab, because she welcomed the spies, was not killed with those who were disobedient So is it her action that saved her? or is it her faith resulting in action that saved her? Aren't you the one who's been campaigning against 'works' the whole thread? wetin happen now?
Siddon. Even we have not received the fullness of the promise.
I will not respond to this. Because you are obviously not reading the posts clearly or are deliberately reading your own bias into them. I've lost count of how many times I've said this is not a salvation by works, but yet you persist in reading something that is not there

When you're ready to actually read my posts without those biased glasses then I'll be more than pleasured to discuss with you.

Okay make I read them again.

Christianity Etc › Re: A Big Disgrace To Religious Nigerians by Joagbaje(m): 2:07pm On Aug 09, 2011

lagerwhenindoubt:
@Joagbaje and @mabell. I have read your comments through this thread and I must say whatever respect I have for you from an intellectual/scriptural/philosophical standpoint has been irremediably eroded

In summary your absolute faith in scripture is bereft of Discernment. Without Understanding, Knowledge becomes poignant Illiteracy and without Wisdom, Understanding becomes a dangerous tool for Social/Religious Conditioning. You definitely have Knowledge and Understanding - you have not demonstrated Wisdom (perhaps intentionally); it is a common puristic malaise silently plaguing today's religious leaders.

Wetin I do?

Whatever happened to the Adult Witches have they become extinct or is it no longer fashionable to be a Witch when you become an adult Children have now become the target of Religious leaders, to be blamed for every failed prayer rendered to God

Now I get your point. But we are dealing with a particular case here. Of child witches . That doesnt deny the existence of adult witches. The childwithces grow up to be adult witches. I said in my post if you read carefully that withcraft is either for adult or children. No age barrier. And I said the witches themselves are victims of these demonic spirit. I dont approve of torture on any person labelled as a witch. I think you should read my post again. Thanks

Crime › Re: Jungle Justice Is It Justifiable? by Joagbaje(m): 1:52pm On Aug 09, 2011

Natasha,,:
^so you are kinda in support of it?

I don't support it. But at he same time I may not condemn it totally based on the circumstances . Jungle justice is killings criminal without trial I believe. So what about killings with trial? Killing is still killing. So Is your concern, the killings or the lack of trial?

. If anyone has really bring a victim of this criminals, he may not outrightly condemn whatever measure taken to put them out of the street. Some have shot people dead just to collect handbag ,handsets. Raped girls and pregnant women during robbery. It is the anger of victims that led to this jungle thing.

These things are relative, Operation Famou Tangbe tried the rid the society of these killers and robbers. They were police . Do we call that jungle justice . Maybe yes ,maybe No. What about the killing of Osama bin laden ,is it jungle justice ? Maybe maybe not. Is it justified? Many people will say yes. That's the point I'm trying yo make . It is relative.

Christianity Etc › Spirit-to-spirit Communication – Pastor Chris by Joagbaje(op): 7:09am On Aug 09, 2011

. . . I will bless the LORD, who hath given me counsel: my reins also instruct me in the night seasons Psalm 16:7.

In our opening scripture, David talks about his “reins” instructing him in the night seasons. This refers to the human spirit. He reveals the importance of listening to God’s instructions from within. The Apostle Paul calls the human spirit the “inward man” (2 Corinthians 4:16), while Peter describes him as the hidden man of the heart (1 Peter 3:4). This is because the human spirit is not visible to the physical eyes.

The Bible says in John 4:24
“God is a Spirit…”

hence, we can only make contact with Him through our spirits. When He wants to communicate with you, He does so directly with your spirit, not your head or your mind; it’s a Spirit-to-spirit communication. This is also the kind of communication that takes place when you pray in the spirit – in other tongues; it’s a God-ward communication. Your spirit makes direct contact with God’s Spirit:

“For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him, howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries” 1 Corinthians 14:2.

Proverbs 20:27 says
“The spirit of man is the candle of the LORD, searching all the inward parts of the belly.”

Whatever instruction, leading or guidance the Lord seeks to give you, He contacts your spirit. That’s who He deals with; not your physical body or outward man. When the Bible says “And thine ears shall a word behind thee, saying, This is the way, walk ye in it, when ye turn to the right hand, and when ye turn to the left” (Isaiah 30:21), it isn’t talking about your natural senses, but your spirit.

No wonder Paul tells us in 1 Corinthians 2:14:

“But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.”

So don’t be overly concerned about what’s going on in your outward man, and then lose sight of your real self – your spirit. Always pay attention to your spirit.

If you’re going to walk in health, prosperity and victory, you must initiate them from within. God has deposited in your spirit everything you require to live a successful and victorious life. So learn to look inwards, and live from inside out.

Confession
I’m conscious of the supernatural life of God that’s in my spirit. Therefore, I refuse to live by the dictates of the outward man, but by the guidance and direction unveiled to my spirit from the Lord. I live out the transcendent life of greatness, excellence and success inherent in my spirit, as I walk according to God’s Word today and at all times.

Further Study
2 Corinthians 4:16
For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish, yet the inward man is renewed day by day.

1 Corinthians 14:14
For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.

Christianity Etc › Re: Tithes - Does God Want The Tithes Of Money? by Joagbaje(m): 6:15am On Aug 09, 2011

There is no rigid law about tithing. How it was done under the law was different from Jacob , was different from Abraham time . We can't compare such details. Revelations differ. What counts is the fact that tithes belongs to God. Same thing goes for first fruits. The Jews gave first fruit on the account if deliverance from egypt but The circumstance by which Abel gave his first fruit was different from mosaic law . They had different revelations. But on thing remain fundamental . The first belongs to God. Offerings belongs to God. Tithes belongs to God. In the new testament it goes beyond laws and command . It's based on our love and honour for God. It's a revelation.

Christianity Etc › Re: Understand Why Jesus Death Was A Perfect Sacrifice by Joagbaje(m): 6:05am On Aug 09, 2011

^^^
explain yourself

Christianity Etc › Re: How My Brother Died In Your Church by Joagbaje(m): 5:55am On Aug 09, 2011

Some people are ~~workaholic~~ Godaholick. Its their zeal But we don't reproach the church in the eye of the world for such.
Besides anyone could have had certain problem being overworked which is wrong though, but it can happen. Ephrapoditus almost died , while working with paul.

Philippians 2:26-30
26 For he. . was full of heaviness, because that ye had heard that he had been sick. 27 For indeed he was sick nigh unto death: but God had mercy on him; and not on him only, but on me also, lest I should have sorrow upon sorrow. 28 I sent him therefore the more carefully, that, when ye see him again, ye may rejoice, and that I may be the less sorrowful. 29 Receive him therefore in the Lord with all gladness; and hold such in reputation: 30 Because for the work of Christ he was nigh unto death, not regarding his life, to supply your lack of service toward me.

It is wrong for Christians to bring church matters before umbelievers. What happened to our understanding of this scripture.

[color=#990000]1 Corinthians 6:1,5
1 When one of you has a complaint against another, how dare you go to court to settle the matter in front of wicked people. Why don't you settle it in front of God's holy people?. . 5 You should be ashamed of yourselves! Don't you have at least one wise person who is able to settle disagreements between believers?[/Color]

Christianity Etc › Re: "Why Evangelicals Should Stop Evangelizing" by Joagbaje(m): 5:19am On Aug 09, 2011

@Jesoul

God deals with people according to the standard of righteousness in their dispensation. I asked you a direct question . I want a direct answer . Are you aware that paul had righteousness according to the law? Did that make him acceptable after christ had come ? Consider this scripture in your response pls.

Philippians 3:9
. . And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

JeSoul:
Hmm . . . oga, I have some news for you oh . . . men have always only been acceptable to God by only faith.
In Heb 11 a whole gang of OT folks were each stated to have been accepted by God based on faith -and not the following of any Law. So again, do you want to rephrase? Rahab didn't have any Law to follow, yet she was declared righteous - you don forget that one?

The bible didnt say so . The bible says by her act, she saved her household from destruction when the city was destroyed.

I agree that heberw 11 talked about faith deed of these OT people .They Were accepted in their generation. According to the standard of Gods dealing then. But that acceptance won't get them born again. Or attain perfection. All of them still had to wait for christ. Are you aware non of them could go to heaven until Jesus came? They were not born again. They only got born again at the resurrection of christ.

I think you should read Hebrew 11 to the end.

Hebrews 11:39-40
39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise: 40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

God accepted Cornelius until Jesus came? Really?

Not only cornellius. All the Jews as were, plus the apostles. Why did paul who had perfection according to the law need to get born again? Consider this scripture.

Philippians 3:6-7
. . . When it comes to winning God's approval by keeping Jewish laws, I was perfect. 7 These things that I once considered valuable, I now consider worthless for Christ,

Salavation Is not character modification , but life transformation through the spirit. Teaching a man character modification is not the gospel. It is glorying after the flesh. A man trying to make himself acceptable before God by good works. It is contrary to truth. Men should glory in the power of God spirit within that turns their lives around.

Titus 3:5
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Christianity Etc › Re: What Is The Origin Of God? by Joagbaje(m): 10:06pm On Aug 08, 2011

@Mabel
God existed in timelessness, time was only created for man. So there is no beginning with God. Beginning is a language of time. At the close of the age ,we will all enter Gods realm of timelessness. No more day or nights.

1 Like

Christianity Etc › Re: A Big Disgrace To Religious Nigerians by Joagbaje(m): 8:02pm On Aug 08, 2011

@azibalua

Azibalua:
Nuclearboy
[color=#770077][/b]
In what manner do they exist?

You are asking intelligent question as though you are talking to someone resonable . It's newmi that knows how to handle his dog. cool

pls

Christianity Etc › Re: "Why Evangelicals Should Stop Evangelizing" by Joagbaje(m): 7:50pm On Aug 08, 2011

@Jesoul

JeSoul:
So Cornelius was acceptable to God until Jesus came?

Yes he was acceptable according to the law. But when the law was done away with. Men can only be acceptable through faith in christ.

Let me ask you a question Jesoul, are you aware Paul had the righteousness according to the law? Did that make him acceptable after christ died? Please answer . Thanks.

I'll give you a chance to take that back and rephrase. Peter wasn't sent to 'save' Cornelius . . .

I don't know what you mean here. So who was sent?

Christianity Etc › Re: Tithes - Does God Want The Tithes Of Money? by Joagbaje(m): 5:31pm On Aug 08, 2011

Tithes and offerings are all based on spiritual principles . They are beyond the laws and commandment. Tithing is least in our givings, I still wonder why the fuss over it. People give land ,cars ,houses. If a pastor want to deafraud why go or ten percent why not 50 percent. All these scamming alarm are very funny.

Christianity Etc › Re: "Why Evangelicals Should Stop Evangelizing" by Joagbaje(m): 4:24pm On Aug 08, 2011

JeSoul:
.

We're all on the same page that 'works' by itself cannot save anyone - you both stated this and I don't think myself or anyone else has said anything to the contrary. I wanted to stress that point. Where we differ is that in those biblical examples 'works' were a product of a 'faith' that was already present - and that their 'works' infact proved their faith - and this is what made them acceptable before God.

What God saw in the guy was his hunger and desire to seek God. But lacked the knowledge of how. He was acceptable unto God under Judaism , but dispensation has changed. And God has to reach him with the gospel. If he was born again already ,there would no longer be need for salavation.

Now Image & 5Star & Wordtalk, you all hold that Cornelius' life of good works and fearing God was insufficient for him to be "saved". I would like to ask how you can reconcile that point of view with this:

James 1:27
Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.

¹ Religion
² that God
³ accepts
⁴ as pure
⁵ and faultless
⁶ to look after orphans, widows, poor
⁷ keep yourself from being corrupted by the world

Please carefully and soberly reflect on all these powerful descriptors. Cornelius fulfilled all these requirements.[/b]GOD ACCEPTS(approves, regards as righteousness) RELIGION[i](notice it does not say judaism or christianity)[/i] as PURE and FAULTLESS[i](if this doesn't qualify as saved or justified and headed for heaven then I don't know is)[/i] is to look after the poor and powerless.

From the above God [b]accepts (approves, saves, regards as righteous etc) those who do these 'works' that you all are tossing aside as inferior to a audible 'confession' of faith. Or are we saying God will accept their 'works' & 'religion' but not them? The point is anyone who actively & passionately & consistently does these 'works' and keeps themselves from the world - just like Cornelius - already has faith good enough to be accepted by God - who are we to say otherwise? This is not a salvation that is based on works - but rather one that is proven by its works that are a product of faith - there is a monumental difference.

The Muslims are religious too . What do you say about their salvation?.

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