₦airaland Forum

dare2think:
@Word talk

Please, what exactly is the purpose and significance of Tithing?

Ask God  ask him also why do we need water baptism.

You should also ask yourself why God would want 10% not 20 not 30. For thousands of years this has been on . There has never been any place in the bible where God gave contrary instruction against iT. As he did to other things.

Tithes and offering remains As vital part our worship of God.

What's the link for?

[flash=400,300]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGzT5M9p_a4&feature=youtube_gdata_player[/flash]

Pls explain, who is after you?

Zikkyy:
It cost money to follow up on. New convert, sometimes transporting him to church , buying him a bible, and empowering some financially to start a business. 

I thought you said the church is not set up for charity?

That's preaching the gospel dear .You seem to only see one sided zikky. I said what the church owes the world is the gospel and that's the church mandate for the world.how ever there is charity sighing the church . It's for it's members. Any charity work done outside to the world is extra. The call of charity in the bible were for Gods people , not for outsiders.

Oga Jo you dey encourage people to steal please re-phrase

Does this statement of yours make sense to you?

Yes and No. It depends  on the reason, selfishness or ignorance. We all have a part to play by being a blessing to others. Every christian has inheritance in God. Some feel they are just ok with daily bread for the house. But Csnt be a blessing to others. That is selfishness. We don't just work to eat. We are called to be a blessing. It cost money to follow up on. New convert, sometimes transporting him to church , buying him a bible, and empowering some financially to start a business. If a man lives for his stomach alone, And never brother to have faith for more . Such a person has not gotten hold of ministry. We work to be givers. If a man can't be a blessing and he refuses to do anything about it, that is selfish and that is sin. Because your life is nit your own, you are bought with a price.

Ephesians 4:28
28 Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth.

Some other people are poor because they are lazy, this is also a sin. There is always a way out of poverty.

Krucifax:
.

There is a school of thought that thinks prayer to an extent is an impractical convenience.(I.E no application in Economics,Agriculture,Medicine)People that say this also say all of the below :

Prayer is applicable in all situations of life

1. You can't pray your way out of the devastation of floods or famine/drought.

What of the biblical stories.

2. You can't pray your way out of the aggression of an invading superior army.

What of biblical stories e.g . Hezekiah,josiah

3 You can't pray your way out of a recession.

what of biblical stories

I for one believe you can pray to be spared any life mishap but i do not believe you can pray to come 1st in a competition with others where the price is 1st.[/b]

Prayer is needed for everything, that's what crowns your little effort with success .

Proverbs 21:31
31 The horse is prepared against the day of battle: but safety is of the Lord.


Prayer does not take the place of planning or preparation , rather prayer helps you to have good preparation .

Proverbs 3:5-6
5 Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. 6 In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.

JeSoul:
. I will ask one question to demonstrate why: Was Abraham 'born again'? Did he run a 'christian race'? Will he too be in the kingdom of God? and to further illustrate the problem with your quote:

Abraham became born again at the redirection of christ. All the old testament saints Got born again ,Jesus resurrected with them. Even though they were saved nominally according to the law. But their sin nature wasn't changed. No body could be born again until the blood of Jesus was shed. When he died and rose. H gave birth to the new creation. And all the saints of old became part of the new creation. They ascended with him.

Matthew 27:52-53
52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, 53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

Hmmm . . . this is a very big problem considering Jesus said "Jn 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Seeing the kingdom and entering the kingdom is mostly misunderstood to be "heaven" the kingdom is a place in christ . Jesus wasnt talking about going to heaven .he is talking about life on earth . We are in the kingdom now.

Colossians 1:13
13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

So how can people that were never born again on earth suddenly be 'saved' in heaven with this 'futuristic salvation at judgement'?

That's the reason for the White throne judgement. It's not for Christians . It's for the people of all nations.

(Note Jesus did not make distinctions btw wether such a man heard/did not hear the gospel, He simply said a man must be born again). So if a man must be born again to enter the KOH, then how will the saints of old get in since according to your doctrine they were never 'born again' either? Perhaps the problem is with your definition of what it means to be 'born again'?

Some men of old heard the gospel when Jesus went to hell or sheoul.

1 Peter 4:6
6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

Being born poor and chosing to remain poor are two different things.

Zikky should speak for himself .The OP wrote connecting and not collecting as far as I can see

Pls report the issues, but I hope the parents are mature enough to handle them in love with serious warning. They need teaching and programming. If you're concerned about the children feeling betrayed by you, one of the best way to handle it is to tell them yourself that you had to report the issue for their good. Tell them as soon as you have told their mum so as to prepare them to know it's for good.

. . . It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter (Proverbs 25:2).

There’s something exciting and beautiful about how our heavenly Father relates to each of His children. He relates to you uniquely and specifically as though you’re the only one on the face of the earth. The way He functions and carries out His ministry through you is also unique. This is one reason you ought to know how His anointing functions, or rather, is activated in you. You need to discover this unique ministry for yourself.

For example, in Exodus 17, when Joshua led Israel to battle against Amalek, we observe that the course of the battle was mainly determined on the mountain where Moses lifted up his hands. Before this time however, there was no revelation to that effect, of hands being lifted up. But Aaron and Hur observed that the victory came about as Moses lifted up his hands:

“And it came to pass, when Moses held up his hand, that Israel prevailed: and when he let down his hand, Amalek prevailed…” (Exodus 17:11).

When they understood this, they got a stone, set it under him to sit on. Then they both held up Moses’ hands, one on each side, so his hands remained steady until the sun went down. Hence, Joshua battled Amalek to victory with the edge of the sword. Same way, even though Samson had learnt that his hair was a symbol of the power of God in his life, he had to discover how to have a quick-charge during adversity. He usually would shake himself to activate the anointing (Judges 16:20).

What have you discovered in your life, in connection with how the Spirit of God leads you in victory? Have you discovered His unique ministry in you and through you? Spend time to pray in other tongues and study the Scriptures. The Lord will show you specifically how the anointing functions in you and through you. With this, you’ll be able to achieve the unimaginable – by the power of the Spirit.
 
Prayer

Dear Holy Spirit, I worship and extol you for your greatness, majesty, glory, and your awesome power that you continually display in me and through me in times of fellowship and moments of worship with you! I thank you for your abiding presence in my life, in Jesus Name. Amen!

Further Study

John 4:24
God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

. . . Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him and he would have given thee living water John 4:10.

Many people suffer the pain of rejection. They allow the devil’s lie to them that they were rejected because they had a problem or because their lives were being influenced negatively by demons. They believe this until it becomes their consciousness and steals their enthusiasm for success. They stop trying and resign to failure. “What’s the use?” they say, “I know I’ll be rejected.”

This isn’t the kind of life you’ve been called to as a child of God. Psalms 5:12 says, “For thou, LORD, wilt bless the righteous; with favour wilt thou compass him as with a shield.” You’ve been called to a life of abundant favour. The only reason anyone may reject you is because they don’t know you. One time, Jesus was by a well in Samaria and asked a woman by the well for a drink of water (John 4:5-10). The woman responded saying, “You know you are a Jew and I, a Samaritan; you’re not supposed to be asking me for water.” Jesus then said to her: “If you knew the person asking you for water, you would ask Him for water and He would have given you living water.” She declined the Master simply because she didn’t know who He was.

Can you see now that you’re not the problem? If Jesus could be rejected, then it means it can happen to you too, but never take it personal. You’re too blessed to be rejected! You’re a joint-heir with Christ and you’re the seed of Abraham, therefore go everywhere with boldness. When people turn you down, look at them with love and say “If only you knew me, you’d act differently!”
 
Confession
I’m the seed of Abraham. Not only am I blessed, I’m a blessing to my world also. Everywhere I go, I have favour because I exude the sweet-smelling savour of Christ. No devil can influence my job, family, finances or life negatively because I’m in charge.

Further Study

Matthew 10:11-15
And into whatsoever city or town ye shall enter, enquire who in it is worthy; and there abide till ye go thence. And when ye come into an house, salute it. And if the house be worthy, let your peace come upon it: but if it be not worthy, let your peace return to you. And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.

crossman9:
"Joagbaje"
is it a sin to be poor i ask you this

It is not a sin. Poverty is in the same boat with sickness . If christ had died to give us Dominion, why would you want to be poor? Poverty is based on ignorance .

JeSoul:
@Joagbaje,
You self. I posed a few questions to you on previous pages. You vanish and then reappear after the dust has settled and people have 'forgotten'. Dat one na your style abi?

I didn't see your questions. I didn't even see this last post of yours , I just searched for the thread again.

So salvation is a multi-step process abi? There are different stages/requirements - being 'born again'   is different from 'making heaven' and is different from being 'acceptable to God' and is different from 'receiving eternal life' and is different from 'futuristic salvation after judgement'.

Precisely , being born again is a spiritual rebirth, a change of nature from humanity to divinity, a recreation of the human spirit. This change makes a man part of Gods family. He doesn't need to try to make heaven . He is already a heavenly being. The christian race is not about making heaven, it's about perfection. We run a race into perfection or maturity. When a christian refuse to grow, other evils can come in. And some may even loose that which they have.

 

Abeg do small explain to us which one be "futuristic salvation after judgement"?

Those who had rejected the gospel will be judged by it ,but We have some other people  who never had the opportunity to hear the gospel, they won't be judge by the gospel. They will be judged by other standards e.g the conscience. Some will be saved in the end. But they were never born again while on earth. They died with the sin nature.

[quote][/quote]

I first thought Ogoamaka made a mistake by the highlighted word.

Zikkyy:
You can partake of the blessing of Abraham through collection to a MOG because it is been said in Genesis 12:3 “And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee:and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

until I read the original post and saw he type "CONNECTION"

You can partake of the blessing of Abraham through connection to a MOG because it is been said in Genesis 12:3 “And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee:and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

Zikky why do you guys manipulate peoples post?

@trac

A shimmy (from the most part) is caused by worn out suspension component.  In this case, the control arm assembly (ball joints in particular) is the culprit.

I just changed the ball joints and the wobble stopped. Thanks a million Trac, . . . MUAAAH!. . .

It's time to cross country .

dare2think:
By the way,How will you deal with your Critics?

Nothing personal, just to enforce rules laid down.more responsible people who had stopped posting due to agberoism will come back.

mazaje:
Non of them wants to touch it. . .Pastor Kun is a regular and vehement critic of Joagbaje. . . .I wonder why him and other critics of Joagbaje are not saying anything meaningful

They've never really said anything meaningful. When they get hooked in a civic discussion, they come after jo.

with verses from the bible to support their arguments. . . Again the questions are these. . .

1. Is prosperity wrong according to the Christian doctrine?
2. Is there any verse in the bible that states the believers will experience lack, injustice, diseases, suffering and poverty?

I think the first assignment you should give them is to define what prosperity is. They can't even explain prosperity biblically . . For me prosperity is not materialism. It's a state of wholeness and being a blessing. Let them define what property is and why their god is against it.

Clap for yourself

Christians are often accused of being judgmental. However, what most people consider to be judgmental is merely telling others what the Bible says are unacceptable behaviors. Christians tell others what the Bible says about behavior because we are commanded to do so, so that others may lead morally acceptable lives. However, we are specifically commanded not to judge the behavior of individuals for whom we do not have absolute certainty of the truth regarding their actions. The Christian Church is to remove sin from within its own ranks first and foremost before condemning the actions of outsiders.

On the contrary ,the so called judgement here is mere assumption of the intention of others . That is a sin.  Condemnation upon individuals because we don't believe the same thing.  I can tell a man that what he said is unscriptural based on my conviction , but if I call him names because of his biblical belief and convictions , it is wrong. Even when we feel we are right, the bible commands to correct in the spirit of humility and love but not in strife. And what people do here is abusing children of God and ministers with the excuse that Jesus got angry

Greedy in what sense?

nlMediator:
That I obey the instructions when given does not make it any less silly. When I've been to Nigerian churches - which are about the only places I've seen such silliness -

It's carnal for you to use such language as "SILLY" in your reference to the church. Ive explained my post . If you have something new to teach ,you can open a new thread on the "silly" in the churched. You don't have to twist my post to mean what I didn't say.

Do you have a church ? Do you have a pastor? Are there instructions given there? Or you fo as you like.?

Zikkyy:
is the pastor the same as the spirit of God?
Oga Jo, one question please, how can i tell the difference between spiritual instruction and pastoral instruction

Pastoral instructions are spiritual instructions.

manmustwac:
Whether they believe that pastor joagbaje iş a fraud or not i got a $100 dollar bet saying that he is going to win the religious nairaland poster of the year awards 2011.

I don't want to win religious poster of the year.  A beg .  I would love to be a moderator. I promise to bring and enforce order . I will enforce the rules of the forum  .  I will press for a christian section . Please vote me a moderator and Nairaland will not be a place for agberos.

toba:
Of i know that u arent close. the point is you said church is a business. all im expecting u to do is to provide verifiable evidence that the church thats supposed to be for propagating the gospel is a business. U ve made an assertion. kindly back it up. if u failed to do so this time then u are not to be taken serious hence forth

Good point

There's no point arguing with people like you. My stand is based on scriptures

Proverbs 23:9
9 Speak not in the ears of a fool: for he will despise the wisdom of thy words.

Demain_man:
@ Fake Pastor JoAgbaje, Open your bible and read these to know that the bible is not only about Tithes! Charity work is not 'Extra' is you termed it. It is your duty as a Christian. Anyway my God is different from the God Money you  serve.

“Blessed is he who considers the poor; The LORD will deliver him in time of trouble. The LORD will preserve him and keep him alive, And he will be blessed on the earth; You will not deliver him to the will of his enemies.” (Psalms 41:1-2 NKJV)

“He who despises his neighbor sins; But he who has mercy on the poor, happy is he.” (Proverbs 14:21 NKJV)

“Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; I was Unclad and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.’ “Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink? When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or Unclad and clothe You? Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’ And the King will answer and say to them, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.’” (Matthew 25:34-40 NKJV)

I don't rearly like replying those who talk foolishly like you but the scripture you quoted,how does it relate to the discussion? You should ask questions instead of trying to teach. You don't understand that passage dude

The charity in the church is primarily for it's members. Israel was a type if the church. And God has a welfare system among his people So the scripture you quoted is not relating to the relationship of the church to the world .

Israel is a "people of God" . There is a welfare system among them . The church is a people of God. There is a welfare system in the church likewise.

But what the church owes the world is the commission of the preaching of the gospel.

trekkie:
does being a minister make him infallible?

No , I didn't say that

character nothing to do with calling?  this is the reason why the church is sick today. remember many are called but few are chosen. what do you think is the reason for this? many have been called by God but their character let them down and they end up outside of God's plan.

I agree. I never justify wrong character . I only said it is wrong to say a man is of the devil becausevof a mistake . So long as he had not denied christ and God still uses him .

look at saul for example. i am glad though that you at least admit that a minister ought to be an example in GOOD CHARACTER. i am not saying that Good character is the qualification for God's initial call on a man's life but in order to maintain the calling. that's why jesus rejected those who claimed to have performed miracles in his name and why did he reject them? he called them "you who practice  lawlessness" matt 7:23.

Okay, I agree with you

you are wrong sir.
1 Chronicles 16:17-22
17 And confirmed it to Jacob for a statute,
To Israel for an everlasting covenant,
18 Saying, "To you I will give the land of Canaan
As the allotment of your inheritance,"[/b]19 When you were few in number,
Indeed very few, and strangers in it.

20 When they went from one nation to another,
And from one kingdom to another people,
21 He permitted no man to do them wrong;
[b]Yes, He rebuked kings for their sakes,
22 Saying, "Do not touch My anointed ones,
And do My prophets no harm."

There is no new story here . The question remains are they prophets? . No who are the prophets ? The patriachs of course. The statement was made on behalf of isreal on account abraham. They were the children of the prophets.

Acts 3:25
25 Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.

So the generic use does not take away the primary and specific use. It's like the use of the terms "sons of God"

To be anointed has to do with the oil. All Israel were not anointed with oil into office. So being called anointed in generic terms on the account of their ancestors doesn't nullify the specific office the use of the term is meant for primarily.

A good example you should look at is the rebellion of Korah. He and his group came to Moses saying "we are all holy" they were dealing with the generic at the expense of the specific , they died for it.

Numbers 16:3-5
3 And they gathered themselves together against Moses and against Aaron, and said unto them, Ye take too much upon you, seeing all the congregation are holy, every one of them, and the Lord is among them: wherefore then lift ye up yourselves above the congregation of the LORD? 4 And when Moses heard it, he fell upon his face: 5 And he spake unto Korah and unto all his company, saying, Even to morrow the Lord will shew who are his, and who is holy; and will cause him to come near unto him: even him whom he hath chosen will he cause to come near unto him.


So we can say we are all anointed, but there are ministers in offices we submit to by the virtue of the office. They are anointed over others.

We can all teach, but that doesn't make us teachers (it's an office), we can all evangelise but that doesnt make us evangelists, we can all prophesy but that doesn't make us prophets (it's an office) we are all sent by God but that doesn't make us Apostles.

1 Corinthians 12:29
29 Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? . . .

We should not keep making the rebellious mistake Korah and his company made. The reason David didn't kill Saul was not based on the generic but on the specific. Saul was anointed by oil into an office.

The same things goes for the church in parallel terms .

Knight1:
@joagbaje,
i disagree with your point on character and calling. if you've got a calling and you do not allow the Spirit to handle your flesh, you remain an empty vessel.

That is not scriptural he can't be an empty vessel if christ dwells in him and he is filled with the spirit. He may function in a limited grace but cannot be empty. Can you prove this scripturally?

Character is one of the things that God works in in a man; and touch not my annointed and do my prophets no harm does not apply here. Telling a man that he's wrong using the Word of God as your basis is absolutely doing NO harm to the prophet! in fact keeping quiet in the face of evil is doing more harm than good sef.

If you read my post I did say the msn could be confronted to explain his intention since it's contrary to "bible" let's hear what he has to say. we can draw conclusion from his response . "this is what the bible says sir" "what do you say to this scripture?"
churches cannot fire or remove them, unless they choose to resign. that is what has happened in your own case,

now to 'solution'
i think you can just continue to interceed for the man, renew contact with him to the purpose of letting him see the light and God helping you, he'll be back to where God wants him to be in no time.
God bless you!

I agree with you here.

Sicherheit:
I've been to churches where the pastors tell the congregation to do things like raise one leg up or start spinning around or banging their heads hard or jump up and down for no apparent reason and I wonder what that has to do with salvation. I think some times these pastors just like to see how much power they have over these people.

That has nothing to do with my post. But there are times certain spiritual instructions comes like . A pastor tells people to place there hands on their head while he prays for them. Or things like that . The reason for such is that he may not be able to lay hands on all of them because of time ,so he use their own hsnd as points of contact .

Other times a pastor wants to teach people how to use their own authority to deal with problems by telling them to place their hands in the ares where they feel pain and command the pain to go by themselves . All these are spiritual instructions.

nlMediator:
I'm sorry, but this is one of the silliest things I see in church. Are we so low in our thinking that this is even considered an effective way for us to learn or train? I don't think the Holy Spirit has much to do with it.

the first training God will give you is submission to leadership. You can't handle spiritual leadership without being under spiritual authority. There is training in God.

Some churches stands up to pray ,some others kneel down to pray. If you are in a church and such instructions are given you ought to obey if not you are rebellious . What's your business bring there if you're not willing to submit to the spiritual authority in that place

Hebrews 13:17
Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.