₦airaland Forum

@ all
I want to fly to Osama bin laden's house through google earth. Does anyone know the coordinates ?

nuclearboy:
So many words - so many lies - all meant to obfuscate issues and cover error

Your mouth never ceases to vomit insults . Let those who can study the bible answer me pls.

Very simply - The Bible and indeed existence itself is about the "Chosen" led by Christ Himself. These will reign according to God's initial design. For the remission of the sins of "many" (those Chosen or Elect), the Lamb of God was slain at the beginning of existence. That was in the Spirit and it only remained that the manifestation be shown in the physical. At Calvary, that physical manifestation was achieved. If we truly believe that God knows tomorrow then we needs must agree that He knew who would be saved and thus could say He had "chosen" them. That is of course, talking of those who believe the Bible and not a commentary.

It's only you that know what you're saying here.

On the issue of Jesus receiving the Holy Spirit, you should really read your Bible. Jesus WAS/IS the physical manifestation of the Holy Spirit. His baptism was symbolic and the Dove coming upon Him was for a witness to men. All you need to consider is that no natural man WITHOUT the Holy Spirit can conquer sin yet Jesus did - this in itself shows the Spirit was upon Him from birth. It was the presence of the Spirit that made men marvel at Him even in childhood or would you say it was human intelligence?

Dude, how can you say jesus recieve the holy spirit from child hood.Jesus didn't receive the holy spirit until the age 30 which is age of adoption into maturity in oriental times. He had to receive the holy spirit as an empowerment for ministry. Without the holy spirit he would have lived like an ordinary man. 

Luke 3:22-23
22 And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased. 23 And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age,

OLAADEGBU:
If this is not purgatory what is it?  It is on record here that you believe that Jesus Christ suffered torment in hellfire before He was rescued by the Father on the third day, please tell me if I misrepresented you so that I can duly correct this impression and apologise.

Jesus did not suffer in hell fire. He did not not enter fire. The saints of old that were in paradise in hell did not enter fire .hell was  divided into two compartments. One side was an abode of the wicked as we learn from the story of Lazarus. The other side was abode of the righteous which is also called paradise or Abrahams bosom. They were not in torment there but they were held against their will , they coukdnt go to heaven .

The suffering of Jesus was on the cross. But he defeated the devil in hell. And took the keys of death and hell. He set the captives free.

Ephesians 4:8-10.(GWT)
8 That's why the Scriptures say: "When he went to the highest place, he took captive those who had captured us and gave gifts to people." 9 Now what does it mean that he went up except that he also had gone down to the lowest parts of the earth? 10 The one who had gone down also went up above all the heavens so that he fills everything.

Colossians 2:15
15 He stripped the rulers and authorities of their power and made a public spectacle of them as he celebrated his victory in Christ.

OLAADEGBU:
That was not the question.  And if you are convinced that sinners are registered in the Lamb's book of life in heaven why do you preach to them in the first place?

It is an issue of light versus darknes. Satan lay claim on humanity for destruction. God makes provision for all to be saved. Jesus blood paid for all. In the eye of God they have been set free. We point them to the way out of prison. That's why we preach . Even though their names are in the book. If they don't come out and embrace light , they will perish , and their names will be blotted out. Because they have rejected Gods salvation.

It is on record that you don't believe that sinners need to repent and since their names are written in heaven why should they leave their lifestyle?

I think you misunderstand me a lot. Let me give an illustration to make my stand clear. I have heard people preaching , all smokers are going to hell. Mini skirt will go to hell. Fornicators will go to hell etc. The problem is this, when we preach salvation by works,The individual feels that these works are the things that makes him a sinner. if for any reason the individual try and stop these habits , he feels he is saved. It is dangerous. I have met people who claim they believe they are born again, since they have managed to stop drinking , womanising etc. Salvation is by faith.

Another group of people are self righteous. They believe in moral lifestyle. They had strict upbringing . No smoking, no girlfriend etc. When we preach works. They feel they are saved since they don't do those things. But my point according to the bible is the fact that man in his best moral lifestyle is still a sinner. Even if he never did anything wrong.  that a man is does not become a sinner because of his bad habits. He is a sinner by birth. That's what paul teaches. All sinned in Adam

Romans 3:23
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;


If you notice, he didn't say "all are sinning" but "have " sinned. It's a past tense because the sin is committed already . Sin to a natural man (umbeliever) is not a conduct but a nature and a prison . That's what every self righteous man should hear. "you dont steal,you don't smoke" but you are still a sinner because of the adamic sin nature you inherited.

So when you ask a natural man to confess, his stealing etc. It's not according to truth because that's not what makes him a sinner. If he didn't steal , he's going to hell anyway!.  When a man realise he is a sinner, he confesses his faith in the death and resurrection of christ and invite Jesus into his heart. That's when salvation is wrought. The power of sin is automatically destroyed. But he now needs to learn Gods word to live perfectly. That's my stand point.

My question was, "why do you think Jesus told His disciples to rejoice" before you decided to divert the issue at hand with your own question.  If you don't know simply say so.

It means their names will remain and not be blotted out. Every Jewish man understand the issue of names being blotted out. It's in the old testament.

Revelation 3:5
5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, . .

I thought you said that the Holy Spirit was not yet at work until Christ rose from the dead.  This is what Dr. Luke wrote about the Holy Spirit in the life of Jesus Christ in His earthly ministry.

"How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with Him" (Acts 10:38).

This is another misunderstanding of my post .Jesus had the holy spirit, I was talking about the disciples and not  Jesus . He received the HOLYSPIRIT after bapsitsm by John.

This is to tell you that in every major phase of the redemption, each Person of the Godhead is directly involved.  Their involvement in each successive phase may be set out as follows:

1. Incarnation.  The Father incarnated the Son in the womb of Mary by the Holy Spirit (See Luke 1:35);
2. Baptism in the Jordan River.  The Spirit descended on the Son, and the Father spoke His approval from heaven (Matt.3:14-17);
3. Public ministry.  The Father anointed the Son with the Spirit (Act 10:38);
4. The crucifixion.  Jesus offered Himself to the Father through the Spirit (Heb.9:14);
5. The resurrection.  The Father resurrected the Son by the Spirit (Acts 2:32; Rom.1:4);
6. Pentecost.  From the Father the Son received the Spirit, whom He then poured out on His disciples (Acts 2:33).

I agree with you. You only mis understood me.

This is to tell you that the Holy Spirit did not just start His work at Pentecost but has been involved all along

Sure. He has always functioned on the earth. But he was not indwelling in people because their spirit which is the real person still had the sin nature .God needs to recreate their spirit for him to dwell in them.

Ezekiel 36:26
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

That's what it means to be a new creation. The past is gone. He has no past to confess.

2 Corinthians 5:17
17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Did you realise that not a single demon was cast out by any of the OT prophets?

They did not have revelation of the demons  that time. But the only place where it was manifest in the life of Saul . When the evil spirit of madness came upon him. David ministered to him by spiritual music and the evil spirit departed. The HOLYSPIRIT works with music also. He couldn't dwell in people those days , he could come upon them  But now that we have been recreated in the image of christ he can dwell in us.

Even the verse you quoted above defeats your standpoint because if the world cannot receive the Holy Spirit but the disciples have not only received Him but that the Holy Spirit abides with them, this to me means that they were saved,

Jesus was clear . "with you" is different from "in you".  The spirit of man had the nature of sin. He couldn't be in them . That spirit has to be created. Born again. We were created in him at his death ?

Ephesians 2:10
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus . . .

We rose with him  in the same nature. Jesus died to make us one. If they were born again ,why would Jesus be praying for them to be one?

John 17:23-24
23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me. 24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am. . .


Ephesians 2:6
6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

The doctrine of interpenetration does not mean bodily entrance into, but union with, so the idea is that there is a measure and a fulness; a partial union with, and a complete union with the Spirit.

I don't know if I get your point here but this what the bible says.

Colossians 2:9-10
9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. 10 And ye are complete in him, . . .

Ephesians 5:30
30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.

I will like to ask you a question at this point. If it was possible for men to be born again before the blood that will take sin away was shed. Of what reason was his death? Why would he need to die again. Is the purpose of his sacrifice not defeated.  Like couples having sex before marriage Will it still be holy matrimony?

@op
If you are really Toba, this is to let you know I miss your posts.

Emmyk:
Earswide, do you monitor the alocation of your church's offering or what?

That's if he attends any church in the first place. If you stay in glass house you don't throw stones. Most people who make sport of attcking churches are spiritual vagabonds . They dont attend any church. But rather look for ways to destract those whi are serving God somewhere just like the devil .

It's not a must. But if she has the grace of preaching why not?. But a pastor have to be sure of her capability to do such. If it's not her area of grace,she should find her level maybe teaching children Sunday school or, decorations.

But if she has yielded herself to the word of God enough, it is not unscriptural to do what her husband is doing. There are examples from the bible where family members get involved with ministerial work.

Thanks for the insight.

E no go happen . . I believe people should get saved by embracing the love of Jesus for them. But many NASA predictions haven't come to pass. I believe there's an appointed time for these calamities. It will be after the rapture , during the tribulations. But we will begin to see their signs but it won't happen on the large scale yet till we are gone.

OLAADEGBU:
It is good to know that it is not scriptural but how come you believe that dead saints were held in hell?  You said dead saints, how did they become saints in the first place?

They were not in hell fire, they were in the bossom of Abraham in paradise , and paradise was in hell. But after Jesus rose.he took all captives to heaven.

If this is what you truly believe makes us saved then why did you say that the disciples were not saved?  This is what Jesus said about them:

"I have manifested your name to the men which you gave me out of the world: yours they were, and you gave them me; and they have kept your word.  Now they have known that all things whatsoever you have given me are of you.  For I have given them the words which you gave me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from you, and they and they have believed that you did send me.  I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but these are in the world, and I come to you, Holy Father, keep through your own name those whom you have given me, that they may be one, as we are." -- John 17:6-11

It is the blood that was sin away. A man has to believe in the power of the remission through the shedding of Jesus blood.The disciples believed Jesus was the messiah. Every jewish person were waiting for the messiah as a political deliverer But they did not have understanding of his death. They didn't even believe his blood would be shed.  When he died , they were surprised and gave up on him. They didn't even believe he would rise.

Romans 3:25
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

They didn't have faith in his blood nor in his resurrection .

OLAADEGBU:
I beg to disagree here.  When you go out evangelising, do you tell the sinners out there that they should rejoice because their names are written in the book of life the lamb slain from the foundation of the world,

I only make sinners recognise their sin state. And how to come out of the sin prison that the door has been opened. I dont go into deep truths with sinners , they can't understand spiritual things.

Why did you think Jesus told His disciples to rejoice?

The question is ; At what what point was their names written. It was written before they were born. If a man comes to know truth , his name won't be blotted out . But if a man dies in sin ,his name will be removed.

What Power did Jesus use and delegate when He cast out demons and raised the dead?  What did Jesus say to His disciples after they came back rejoicing?

A man of God can anoint anything , he can anoint a stone, an handkerchief , a shadow. And power can be transmitted. How much more a person. Jesus garment also transmitted power. He delegated power to them. But it was obvious from every other scriptures that the holyghost was not yet given to be in men. Because a man in his best state was still a sinner. The blood of Jesus took sin away. But at that time , the blood of Jesus had not yet been shed.No man could become righteous. In the sense of the new testament.They had appointment but they could not step into office until Jesus was glorified.

Hebrews 9:22
22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.


They functioned almost like the old testament prophets . The operation of the holygost was external or bodily but not in their spirit within them.

John 14:17
17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Their are two workings of the holyspirt within.

(1) Baptism unto salvation.

1 Corinthians 12:13
13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

(2) Empowerment for service.
Acts 1:8
8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.


The holygost is the agency for salvation. Being born again is an inward operation of God. The sin nature has to be taken away by the new birth. If the blood that will take away the sin nature has not been shed. No one could receive new birth.

Many believe the apostles got born again at Pentecost. I believe they got born again when Jesus told them to receive the holyghost before Pentecost .

John 20:22-23
22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost: 23 Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.

blu-girl:
Please i really need your answers on this.I've been dating this guy for a year now but i recently got born again.Should i continue but set certain boundaries or shouid i just end it all?God bless you as you reply.P.S:RESPONSES SHOULD BE FROM MATURE BORN AGAIN CHRISTIANS ONLY.Thanks.

The word of Gid is our great counsel.

2 Corinthians 6:14-17
14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

Verse 17 gives a clear instruction on what to do
. . . ,17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,

That's illegal, besides what's worth publishing in such conversation. The conversation I would have loved you to publish is the one where you admitted that the blind woman I prayed for said she got healed . And you began trying to convince me that that's not what she had said before. Since you document phone calls. I would have loved you to published your conversation with the woman.

nuclearboy:
In light of your statement of 2000 years above, what do you make of the Biblical verse Rev 13:8?

Since you brought it up why don't you enlighten us?

Is the Bible wrong or is it you that is confused?

Maybe you are getting confused really.

OLAADEGBU:
Do you folks somehow believe in the so called doctrine of "Purgatory"?

It's not scriptural. But dead saints were held in paradise until Jesus resurrected with them .

Where we differ is that you believe that the salvation experience only happens when we get baptised in the Holy Spirit, while we believe that sanctification and the baptism of the Holy Spirit are subsequent experiences after the salvation experience.

I believe the salvation experience takes place when a man genuinely believes in the lordship of christ and openly confess him. And believe by faith that he has received eternal life

nuclearboy:
Okay - tell us then, "Pastor Jo" - so you understand "knowledge" - when did the sacrifice of the Christ take place?

Please consult your Bible before responding

About 2000 years ago

Here was a foreknowledge of God . And predestination of God. But the way of salvation came through Jesus .

Hebrews 9:8
8 The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:

The way of salvation was opened for them at the resurrection but prior to this , their salvation was nominal and not yet a vital experience. The theif on the right didn't go to heaven David couldnt go to heaven until Jesus liberated them all from hell and paradise.

Perfection and regeneration came to them at Jesus resurrection.

What are you saying? David's name was written in heaven as well. Everyone's name is written In heaven. That's not a guarantee that they are saved. Was judas name not written in heaven.

Being born again is a regeneration of the spirit.

John 3:5
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and [of] the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

The HOLYGHOSt work only came into the church after Jesus rose.

John 7:38-39
38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. 39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet [given]; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

Try present your case without insult. If I must discuss with you

^^^^
explain yourself

He looks a little like the tbj of many years ago.

John 16:12
12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.

1 Corinthians 2:14
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

A natural man is a man who has not received the regeneration by the holy ghost . Even though the apostles believed In Jesus to an extent . They didn't have full comprehension of him . They didn't believe in his death. They didn't know he would die. Not to talk about the resurrection . His death took them by surprise. They didn't have faith in his death.For a man to be born again , he needs to have faith in the resurection of christ. Which faith they lacked.

In Another dimension, it's like a political party. An aspirant might have appointed people as cabinet members but they have to win election first and be sworn in. The way of salvation was not open until the death and resurection of christ. They didn't have full comprehension. Just like men of the old testament. David believed in Jesus and other prophets. But they couldn't be rejenerated until christ resurected. That's what cause eternal life to come into a person. Resurrection.

Romans 10:9
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Emmyk:
See what God has done. 30th year anniversary and still standing. Be our guess ts week as we celebrate GOD at Living Faith Church Worldwide aka Winners' Chapel

Congrats

They keep coming with new ones

Grey Beard:
@joagbaje - Have you seen the programme? Do you really think there are no fake miracle healers in this world?? If you do, then you are seriously deluded. The only people making caricature of the gifts of the spirit are these obviously fake liars who use well established circus tricks in the name of the Lord.

I didn't see any video. I only saw a programme schedule . My comment was a resPonse to yours

There is no twisting . You missed his point. There is difference between praying to God through Jesus christ. Paul didn't say he was praying to God through Jesus. The use of the word through didn't suggest intermediary but ability. He could have as well used the. Word "by". It's not the same as using Jesus as a medium to reach God. He is the life in us. We work through his ability within.

Enigma:
@ Joagbaje

Post #72; you will see someone praying through Christ Jesus

Whereas this is what the dumbass author said in your opening post
So you see the dumbass author didn't just say don't pray through Jesus' name! He said don't pray through Jesus.

His emphasis was on the use of name of jesus. Read it in contex. There is difference between christ in us as our ability and as a medium or intermediary. In context, the scripture you quoted didn't present christ as an intermediary. You are the one making it so. What ever we do , we do it by. Christ. The emphasis of the post is the use of the name . And I think you should dwell on that.

Yes you're right. Have you ever cast out a devil.? . If you have,you will never criticise a miracle. Jesus us the same forever.

Enigma:
If posts #72 and #75 are not clear enough for you, then may Almighty God help you.

When paul used the phrase Through Jesus ,he is talking of christ in us or life of christ in us. It is not a case of an intermediary . Christ is our life.Everything we do ,we do it by christ. But we are talking about the use of the name of Jesus . How do you use the authority of his name. Will you stand before a demonic person and say "come out devil , through the name of Jesus" or rather in the name. Or while praying to God you say " father we pray through the name of Jesus"
I believe I'm clear enough . If you still insist on that claim ,can you give example where the church prayed through the name of Jesus. Rather than IN the name. Which has to do with in his stead and his authority.

Enigma you are being evasive . Are you saying it is scriptural to pray through the NAME of Jesus .What is the scriptural reference.

This is post 78