₦airaland Forum

EarsWide:
@Mr Jo

Only fools and extremely vulnerable people will accept the sort of explanations you put forward.

Did Jesus specifally heal people with cancer - yet your 419 charlatans claim to do it all the time
Did Jesus lengthen a leg that is shorter than the other ? Yet your 419 charlatans claim to do this ?
Jesus did not have an expensive lifestyle - yet your 419 charlatans do.

All of a sudden you want to say because Jesus did not do it - your 419 charlatans cannot do it.

In anycase what about a withered hand (which Jesus healed) -  Why cant your 419 frauds do it ?

Well I don't even intend to be responding to posts of your like. The topic is foolish. And for you information amputees dont need healing. That is not a sickness. You can heal a wound but for a missing hand or leg. What is needed is not healing but what is called a creative miracle. Couple of ministers have been used of God to perform creative miracles of different types Dude. But is it not foolish asking for proof when your unbelieving heart is already programmed to denial of existence of miracles. That's what scriptures call foolish questions.

2 Timothy 2:23
23 But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.

Show me where Jesus healed amputated limbs, and I will show you who's doing it.

What hypocrisy ? What did you do with the housands of testimonies shown on air from the healing school and atmosphere of faith. Mr coward. Will you have boldness to confront truth ? Since you don't believe in healings again .What did you do with the ones I gave you? Stop pursuing shadows . Acting innocently as though you are interested in truth .

The thread is not about oyakhilome. It is a general thing. For The men you mentioned . You're not in their house and you don't follow them to functions for you to know the security work. If Okogie should come to make address in Abuja stadium.you can't tell me there won't be security in place.

That apart. Any minister of God that is Involved with casting out devils on a large scale and healing the sick, will have Satan coming after him I. Different ways .they get security information and take preventitive measures.when Paul had security information he took measures by being smuggled out in a basket or police escort but when he didn't have security information , was stoned and left for dead. Other times he was attacked by robbers . Security is common sense

^^
let me answer here. They carried swords not just because of his arrest. One the first thing is prevention. Prevent evil. Nobody said Jesus ordered them to kill. The same way. The MOGs have not ordered their security to shoot anybody. It's for prevention and order. Some people can overzealously do some things for the MOG. just like Peter did.

I agree Jesus was against Peters attack. One thing is carrying the sword another is to really use it. I dont think any man of God will order guards to shoot at people. But security men sometimes may be armed for prevention of evil .

That's the case with the disciples . They carried arms and Jesus knew. He even asked those who didn't have sword to buy one! To buy one for what reason?

My point is simple . Those who make a sport of criticism of ministers of God should check their bible well. God is not glorified with all these. we criticise suit, cars,now security Why men of God?.

Security is common sense. That doesn't mean a man put his faith in them , but they are neccesity . It may not be applicable go every minister. But the more popular a man is, the more security measures to be taken. Not necessarily by the man himself but he will have loyal members who will naturally want to protect his interest. It is not because of bullet . It is a general thing. The devil shows up diffent ways. Even if it's just to cause obstruction in a service.

It is glaring what the disciples did for Jesus ( some were not with Jesus consent though ) but it is a normal thing. See what the disciples did for paul too. That's security measure. Paul himself yield to security advice also did Jesus. Jesus heard that herod was planning to kill him and he stopped walking openly in the Jewry for a period . What is that? It is called security measure. Who gave him information? His men ofcourse. Some people may over do this but it's not in our place. Leave a man of God for God, lest you sin.

I agree . But Why did Jesus ask those of them without swords to go and buy?

ogajim:
Pastor JoAgbaje: Do you know it is CUSTOMARY for men in Yemen to carry native daggers? this is something I've learnt in the last few weeks of the political riots there. Men in Africa used to carry their cutlasses when they went anywhere and I am sure some carried Swords if it was their custom.

I dont see the need for us to create a history that never existed just for the sake of winning argument. Can we have a link to the fact that the disciples  carried sword as a custom and not for Jesus sake.

They were his ushers
They were his protocol officers and security
They were his defenders
They were his bouncers!

Matthew 19:13-14
13 Then were there brought unto him little children, that he should put his hands on them, and pray: and the disciples rebuked them. .

Mark 9:38-39
38 And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us. .

Luke 9:54-55
54 And when His disciples James and John observed this, they said, Lord, do You wish us to command fire to come down from heaven and consume them, even as Elijah did? [II Kings 1:9-16.] 55 ,

John 12:20-22
20 And there were certain Greeks among them that came up to worship at the feast: 21 The same came therefore to Philip, which was of Bethsaida of Galilee, and desired him, saying, Sir, we would see Jesus. 22 Philip cometh and telleth Andrew: and again Andrew and Philip tell Jesus.

What were they doing with swords?

However, this thread isn't about choices. It is about opinions. Opinons on whether those choices are RIGHT or WRONG. It is about justifying these opinions and that is why I asked you earlier if you had anything extra to add to the thread since the "diciples where Jesus' bodyguard" argument has been blown out of the water.

Blown out of the water? By who ? By your Enigmatic culture? The disciples acted as security for Jesus when need arose . They acted as ushers when need arose. They acted as bouncers when need arose. They alsmost bounced children away from Jesus. It's a loyalty thing .

Azibalua:
Why would I want to make it my buisness if my MOG goes around with a guard,is it that immediately he became my MOG he started answering to me!
I don't think god asked me to become my MOG boss

Remember

Romans 14:4
4 They are God's servants, not yours. They are responsible to him, not to you. Let him tell them whether they are right or wrong. And God is able to make them do as they should.

Wonderful scripture. I hope the Anti MOGs will hear the voice of the spirit in that scripture. Thanks Azi baby.

@enigma

In addition , this your "ye are god" camouflag was not about MOGs. The message is for all of us. I wonder why you singled only MOG out.

@Mabel

mabell:
I agree with you joagbaje,
True humility is accepting what the bible says
If the bible says Jesus’ disciples carried swords, then let’s take it like that
If it says Jesus hid, then he did hide
Security is our responsible
Lets take a look at Peter who was smuggled out of the city because of the threat on his life
What do you have to say about that?

I posted the scripture you tried to quote. But it was paul and not peter.

Acts 9:23-25
23 And after that many days were fulfilled, the Jews took counsel to kill him: 24 But their laying await was known of Saul. And they watched the gates day and night to kill him. 25 Then the disciples took him by night, and let him down by the wall in a basket.

Azibalua:
So carrying of arms are solely for cultural purposes?
How naive!
It's no ones business if any body decides to have guards,
If Jesus can hide himself,so can any other person, that was wisdom at that point,
We all function at different levels,and so if I am comfortable with guards fine if am not fine,it's a thing of choice

Ask the Bobo o. I'm sure Mary carried dagger too. As a culture. (an enigmatic culture)

Enigma:
Look, stop dribbling yourself; also, your Bible twisting may work on your flock and similarly uninformed or misinformed people but not on Christians with their minds in the right place.

First, no one has said MOGs or even Christians should not take security precautions. What people have been going on about is your hypocrisy: if you are "god", and you can do miracles, and if you and Oyakhilome can do greater works than Jesus, then you should not need security. If you still need security, then you were lying when you called yourself "god" and say you can do miracles.

Most important you lie about Jesus and you drag Jesus down to a level lower than yourself --- saying He hid --- was it under the table or where? As for Paul, you forget that Paul is not "god"; in fact, Paul himself confirmed that he is not "god". Moreover Paul recognised that a miracle can only happen through him, when God Himself wants it to happen. Paul was different from you and your senior fraudsters who say miracle is common place in your hands. By now needing security and not able to rely on your common place miracles you people have shown yourselves to be liars and frauds.

That is the difference "my dear". 

Now that your are exposed with this invincible Jesus thing and no place to hide. You have to come after oywkhilome. I understand. You have to change the direction into "ye are God" thing. . No wahala. But first ,this thread is not about oywkhilome . My involvement is a general one. How many MOG teaches "ye are gods" . You usually do this manipulation. After your wrong idea has received scriptural koboko, you usually raise a new topic. YOU ARE GOD KO , YOU ARE IMAAM NI .  
Be a man for once. Stand your ground. Open the bible and defend yourself . If your idea is proven false . Humbly accept or just keep quiet .MISITA ENIGMA

Enigma:
After you have answered all the ones I have already put to you. 

The scripture you quoted does it suggest disappearance ? HE hid. Either he hid in a place or used people as shield , he hid for safety. Different translations may differ but he hid. The Greek word says hid.


John 8:59. (Amplified)
59 So they took up stones to throw at Him, but Jesus, by mixing with the crowd, concealed Himself and went out of the temple [ enclosure].

John 8:59 (GWT)
59 Then some of the Jews picked up stones to throw at Jesus. However, Jesus was concealed, and he left the temple courtyard.

While you are getting ready going through your Webster . We wil soon get to paul case. Let me give you a scripture to prepare your defence.

Acts 9:23-25
23 And after that many days were fulfilled, the Jews took counsel to kill him: 24 But their laying await was known of Saul. And they watched the gates day and night to kill him. 25 Then the disciples took him by night, and let him down by the wall in a basket.


MOG IN A BASKET!! I wonder what Webster will say here.

Tell me how Jesus vanished here.

John 7:1
1 After these things Jesus walked in Galilee: for he would not walk in Jewry, because the Jews sought to kill him.

Enigma:
@Joagbaje

Your own problem is fraud, bible twisting and manipulation.

In recent times you have used both the "God's Word Translation" and "World English Bible" to support yourself, so here from the two --- or do you now disown them?

GWT
WEB
Oya, translate those as "Jesus hid under the pulpit" or "He hid under a table".


I also asked you: if Oyakhilome can do greater works than Jesus why doesn't he too do as follows from Luke 4

Trash. Say something reasonable

@enigma,
Your problem here is just pride. You don't own up even when it's evident that you stood for an error. You can be manipulating English and bible to suit your idea. You are trying to create an idea for Jesus that he didn't ask you. If the bible says he hid himself, take it like that . Don't twist it. Jesus had his moment in the flesh . He had his moment of fear. He came in the flesh. Don't try to help him.  You are trying to create an idea that he disappear . Come on. Try again.look at this .

John 8:59
59 So they took up stones to throw at Him, but Jesus, by mixing with the crowd, concealed Himself and went out of the temple [ enclosure].


John 7:1
1 AFTER THIS, Jesus went from place to place in Galilee, for He would not travel in Judea because the Jews were seeking to kill Him.

Security is a common sense my dear. We should not add a lie to the scripture . You should rather check the Greek word rather than Webster.

It depends On what the Mog believe . Many have their testimonies of deliverance  from bullets. Not even MOGs alone,Other  Christians has spoken in tongues or call the name of Jesus and robbers or kidnappers fall down . So it depends on the faith at work in the person at the moment. We don't work under the anointing 24/7.  Neither did Jesus. We are one with him. He had his moment of commanding power, he also had his moment of protecting himself. That doesn't change who he is. Was he still God? Even while hiding ? .

nuclearboy:
@Jo: I think you miss their point.

We know Christ was hated by the Religious leaders and that there were many attempts on His life yet he would hide or go someplace else until His SET time arrived when He gave Himself up.

But we have to agree that the idea that angels alone should secure a minister is wrong. Jesus didn't depend on angels alone. He used common sense. To protect himself. That's my point.

A pastor has volunteer as well in his congregation who act as protocols . Some are military men and some are not and they all volunteer their service in that department. Some do security work at the car park . But when an MOG goes out . He may use police to escort .it depends on them and the assignment . Police may clear the road. For easy movement. No personal bodyguard carry weapon. It is police that is licensed to carry gun . I'm not aware any MOG ordered any police to shoot people. Their presence alone put mischief maker in check.

My point in all these is that the claim that angels alone are enough for security is not true. Security is common sense based on the need. Whoever doesn't need it doesn't have to borther , but whoever does need it should not be condemned until you know his reason. It is not for EFIZZY.

Satan , kidnappers, and evil men looks for way to hurt any public figure . And as a minister become great due to his influence. He may become target.

Thats an escape.
It is wrong for a minister to have security men if he feels a need for it because the angels alone ought to protect him? Is that your point?

free123:
jo u need to read the whole chapter u quoted to understand it well.

Did Jesus asked them to fight for Him with the sword? - NO

Neither did the MOGs ask police to shoot anyone with the gun.

Common sense will tell us that two swords wouldn't have been enough to secure Jesus against the priests,captains and multitude coming for Him.
This is as simple as ABC, Jesus did not need human security.

You've not answered the questions. Why did they carry swords? Was Jesus not aware that they carried swords? Why did he tell the others that didn't have sword to buy one? . Pls explain.

You don't have a part in this. You don't belong to the church. An MOG is a free citizen and entitled to security like anyone else. So that's how you should see it. Leave church matter for church people and their God. You should rather observe from civic perspective.

free123:
Jesus hid because He had not completed His job. When His job was done He simply submitted Himself.

Beautiful . That's my point. Security is a simple common sense.

His disciples neva carried swords to kill anyone.

i agree . The MOGs being attacked in this thread didn't carry security to kill anyone either. It's a preventative measure. If Jesus was justified to protect himself. Why would someone say that a pastor with security is in the flesh. What are we arguing about?. Why did disciples carry swords ?

Luke 22:36
36 Then said he unto them. . . . he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

The disciples acted as security for Jesus also. They obviously carried sword about and jesus was aware. He said those who have no sword should buy. Look at the next verse.

Luke 22:38
38 And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. And he said unto them, It is enough.


Security makes it difficult for evil to take place.

So jo, when will u complete your job as a pastor?
Is it when u go to afghanistan, iran, iraq or gaza?

Let's leave Jo out of discussion. Let's deal with Topic.

Security is not about bullet, it's about order and ofcourse safety. I asked you questions.
Why did Jesus hide?
Why did Jesus disciples carry swords.
Why did Jesus run from the mob.
Lets start from there? Before we deal with paul case and some others. And pls Lets your response be intelligent .

Ministry is about people. Perfecting them. It's not about money.It's mEn of the senses that sees it monetarily.
Jesus was called a dupe. Why don't we look at the positive impact churches are making in lives of people

;d

I can see your plight. We shall talk later