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Christianity Etc › Re: You Stand In Christ Stead- Pastor Chris by Joagbaje(op): 11:13am On Apr 30, 2011

You have mastery in derailing a topic. Applying gradualism to take us into another issue. I will follow you. But let's go step by step. answer my question.I ask a 3rd time is it scriptural praying to God through the name of Jesus or in the name of Jesus. Is there any place the church was instructed to pray through the name of Jesus. Is there any place they prayed through the name of Jesus? Give a direct answer.

Christianity Etc › Re: You Stand In Christ Stead- Pastor Chris by Joagbaje(op): 10:58am On Apr 30, 2011

Enigma:
@Joagbaje
I asked you: can we give glory to the Father God through Jesus Christ or not?

Christ is our life and ability. We can bring glory to God through the christ in us, but it is different from praying through the name of jesus. Our works of service has to be sanctified by the holygost to make it acceptable by God also .

I still ask , is there any where in the bible where we are taught to pray through the name of Jesus rather than in his name.

Christianity Etc › Re: You Stand In Christ Stead- Pastor Chris by Joagbaje(op): 10:49am On Apr 30, 2011

Zikkyy:
Representing a president does not take away the responsibilities of the president. The delegates ensure they don’t misrepresent the president as he takes ultimate responsibility for the outcome of the function.

You are right. They speak for him. They speak his speech ,his language and do his will. And that's what we are talking about. We speak his language .

1 John 4:17
17 In this [union and communion with Him] love is brought to completion and attains perfection with us, that we may have confidence for the day of judgment [with assurance and boldness to face Him], because as He is, so are we in this world.

John 17:22
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

Christianity Etc › Re: You Stand In Christ Stead- Pastor Chris by Joagbaje(op): 10:42am On Apr 30, 2011

Enigma:
So it has already come to "play the version/translation card" again?

Even sticking to your own translation your English is so poor that you don't know that "in him" also means "through him?

It really is important that you take those English classes.

Actually a question for you: if we want to give glory to God do we do it directly or can we do it through Jesus Christ?

The one question I would love to ask. These things we were taught from childhood religiously is it bible based. Are we taught to pray through jeus? Or not? Yes or No. Are we taught to pray through the name of Jesus or In hus name. If you say otherwise ,simply prove it scripturally but if it is not in the bible ,let's not go in circles.

Christianity Etc › Re: You Stand In Christ Stead- Pastor Chris by Joagbaje(op): 10:21am On Apr 30, 2011

^^^
what question?

Enigma:
One of them quoted Ephesians 3:12 In him and through faith in him we may approach God with freedom and confidence.

Yet they say you should not go to God through Jesus as though "through faith in Jesus" is not the same as "through him".

Their problem is that they need to do gyrations because of their loyalty to Oyaks instead of admitting that the fellow was talking through his backside.

Let's not give it our own meaning . Let's read other version for clarity.

Ephesians 3:12
12 In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him.

Ephesians 3:12
12 In Whom, because of our faith in Him, we dare to have the boldness (courage and confidence) of free access (an unreserved approach to God with freedom and without fear).

This verse is rather a confirmation of the truth we are talking about. Why should we keep beating Ourselves down.

Christianity Etc › Re: You Stand In Christ Stead- Pastor Chris by Joagbaje(op): 10:13am On Apr 30, 2011

Enigma:
Thank you for your kind suggestion. I too would like to make my own suggestion to you: I think you should work hard on seriously improving your English comprehension; that would help you to see through the deceit of an anti-Christ message like that in the opening post.

^^
I will work on my English comprehension. But is the bible wrong. Have you cross checked those scriptures.

John 16:23
And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you

He has taken away our unworthiness . That's why some still pray through Mary. Because in human sense. They feel we are unworthy to approach Jesus direct. That's the same religious sense they taught us. We have come through Jesus at new birth. We don't come through him again. We have crossed the bridge.

Is there any place in the bible where the church ever prayed through Jesus?

Christianity Etc › Re: You Stand In Christ Stead- Pastor Chris by Joagbaje(op): 9:57am On Apr 30, 2011

free123:
Honestly Enigma, the message is clearer now, they are trying to substitude Jesus Christ.

You are close to it. But not in your negative perspective. He was our substitute ,we are his representative. God accepts me on the bases of Jesus in me. He sees me as Jesus . That's eternal life. Christ in me. Jesus is divided into all of us.
That's what God sees. That's what the devil sees. But sadly that's what religious men don't see.

Until you see your self in christ and christ in you. You will never work miracle or cast devils out. Because you don't understand authority. God and satan relates to you on the bases of how much truth you kniw.

Christianity Etc › Re: You Stand In Christ Stead- Pastor Chris by Joagbaje(op): 9:50am On Apr 30, 2011

Enigma:
Don't mind them jare, free123.

They are looking for ways to twist round the obvious - that the message is idiotic and anti-Christ because, at the end of the day, what the message boils down to is: "you do not need Jesus Christ"! In other words, "you do not need Jesus Christ because you are now equal to him as long as you mention his name".

A sensible person would take time to consider the following carefully and compare it to what the dumbass author of the piece wrote.

1. "Father hear my prayer, in the name of Jesus Christ"

2. "Father hear my prayer, through Jesus Christ"

3. "Father hear my prayer, because of Jesus Christ"

4. "Father hear my prayer, for the sake of Jesus Christ"

I think you should do a study on the principles of substitution. We would have been nothing on our own. But the Jesus life in us makes us one with him. We are now brothers. As long as you see yourself lesser than jesus in authority . You can't fulfil his purpose in you. You must accept what he died for. Even in his earthly life ,he Walked at different level of revelation with his disciples. At one time he told them that's long as they relate only as servants to him ,they would be limited in revelation .

John 15:15
15 Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you.

Don't dwell where Jesus has left. Stay where he has brought you.

There is a difference between speaking in the name of the president And speaking through the president. They are not the same . Get it?

To make us one. You can't continue in the

Christianity Etc › Re: Miracle Pastors - All Their Tricks Exposed - Channel 4 - UK by Joagbaje(m): 3:45am On Apr 30, 2011

You are happy they make caricature of the gift of the spirit. And you call it superb. grin

. You guys are something else

Christianity Etc › Re: You Stand In Christ Stead- Pastor Chris by Joagbaje(op): 1:11am On Apr 30, 2011

Enigma:
“Before the Throne of God Above” draws heavily from Scripture for its pictures and language. It is a hymn which finds its theme in the perfect security which believers find in Christ, Who intercedes for them “before the throne of God above.” The following Scriptures find echoes in the song, whether Charitie is drawing conceptually from them or merely using their language. . . . . . . .

Nice piece on the hymn including scripture references http://cbumgardner./2008/05/08/before-the-throne-of-god-above-charitie-bancroft/

There is a difference between intermediary and the intercessory ministry of jesus . I intercede for fellow christian but im not their intermediary. . It's an issue of language. Religiously taught wrongly . We pray in his name . Not through him. "bless this food oh lord FOR CHRIST SAKE amen " you were taught from child but have you checked it's scriptural accuracy . It's still conveys sense of unworthiness . We have become one with him.

Another one is the idea of praying through the name of Jesus. This is different from praying IN the name of Jesus . The bible never said to pray through the name but In the name. I represent his name as a police man represents the authority of the law.I stand in the authority of his name, If you don't understand this you can't cast out devils.

Mark 16:17
17 In my name shall they cast out devils. . .;

Not "through his name" We pray in his name. A policeman arrests in the name of the law. He stands in the authority o the law.

Christianity Etc › Re: You Stand In Christ Stead- Pastor Chris by Joagbaje(op): 1:03am On Apr 30, 2011

@ kandiikane

kandiikane:
@Nuclearboy, like you said Jesus was the bridge and that means we can walk straight unto God.
Before the bridge we could not pass, people had to make sacrifices and go through the holy of holies to get to God but since he came and built the bridge, there are no more killings of lambs or offerings of food and then going straight to the holy of holies to talk to God on our behalf. He came and died for our sins so we can approach God without any intermediary.

Please read first before you type.

Thank you so much for your contribution. The message is simple. Jesus has brought us into union with the father. That's what the thread is about . Jesus said in that day. (which we are now) we don't need to go through him. Since we are one with him. Praying in his name means , in his stead. We are in him. The father loves us as he loves Jesus . That's the point.

John 16:23
And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you

Union with christ and God doesn't mean we have stolen Gods glory. But rather our oneness with him . We in him and he in us.

Christianity Etc › Re: Pastors And Body Guards. by Joagbaje(m): 8:04pm On Apr 28, 2011

ogajim:
Fake accents are just funny and makes the pretender look silly! There are stuff you pick up as a result of having lived in an environment for a number of years but the trained eye can still pick up elements of pretense because even different western English speaking countries have different ways of saying certain things and your pretenders tend to mix them up quite a lot(bit if you're English, see?)

We learn mastery. Even if it's with pretence as you claim. It's no longer pretence . It's now real. You should accept it. Broadcasters change their accents and pronouciation in school its part of their course. We learn public speaking. You should appreciate someone who has developed himself. We have some nigerians that stayed 20 years plus in the U.S yet they are still as crude and local as village men. Some can even wee by roadside. Embrace growth and development. god didn't create a Nigerian accent. Men did. Break the circle and move towards perfection.

[/quote]What is your own accent?

[quote]Pastor Jo , you seem to be a better painter than what you do on your CEC beat here, why not stick with the former? Just my 2 cents!

If you like my works , I can make a print for you. grin

Christianity Etc › Re: Pastors And Body Guards. by Joagbaje(m): 7:55pm On Apr 28, 2011

donnie:
@ Joagbaje,
I just clicked the 'like' button under your last post

Christianity Etc › Re: You Stand In Christ Stead- Pastor Chris by Joagbaje(op): 7:34pm On Apr 28, 2011

Enigma:
^^^ Whoever wrote the above is an i.diot and a dumbass.

Instead of abuse , why not explain yourself?

Christianity Etc › Re: Understanding The Jews by Joagbaje(m): 7:18pm On Apr 28, 2011

So what are you driving at? What's your point?

Christianity Etc › Re: Pastor Anita -praise Your Way To Victory by Joagbaje(op): 7:13pm On Apr 28, 2011

simplymee:
Many times the issues we face in the inside works so much on the mind of the christian that he/she feels down, but we are hard pressed on every side but not crushed. My praise of God makes my victory sure despite the challenges i face; it only makes me know that GOD is still in charge of all the cases i faces. Afterall he is my ALA'BARU. I will praise you with a shout.

Is it Alabaru or Alabaro?

Christianity Etc › Re: Pastors And Body Guards. by Joagbaje(m): 6:46pm On Apr 28, 2011

God didn't create you with accent . If you grew in the north ,you will be influeced by their tongue. Except you choose to develop yourself. We learn everything. Self development is our choice. Does adefarasin speak Yoruba English? No one is talking. Does chris okotie not curl his hair ? Does he speak Warri English. Why does pastor chris matter get everyone attention. He is doing something spectacular for God, and the devil is mad.
The fact that our grand fathers couldn't imitate the White man accent well should not make us continue the same trend. Dare to be different . Break the circle. Pastor chris said "DON'T PARK IN THE SAME PARKING LOT WHERE YOUR FATHERS PACKED UP." there is no crime in being different. It is a sign of leadership . He is a leader and role model .

Christianity Etc › Re: Pastors And Body Guards. by Joagbaje(m): 6:19pm On Apr 28, 2011

ogajim:
Nigerians will defend anything as long as it is done/performed by someone they like or care about. Why would anyone TRUST an "MOG" who alters his/her appearance and or speech?

If an "MOG" isn't being honest about his hair or accent, I wonder what else he isn't being HONEST about

So Mr religious man ,tell me what hair texture were you born with as a child? Was it coarse or curly? . If it was curly, anyone who maintains curly hair is only doing maintenance job. GBAM! .

If you don't like your God given hair, cut it off instead of dyeing/frying it in grease or "afri hair dye", one of the two things I liked about Michael Jordan was shaving his head when the balding train arrived at his station instead of some scamming wig like Steve Harvey pulled.

Why would you recommend someone to shave off the hair God created?!! How wouldest thou touchest God created hair? Youuuuu hypocrite !!., grin

. Knowest thou not that thine hair is numbered!! huh

Dear, God has no hand in what you do to your voice or hair. Please Biko. There is no natural accent. We all got infueced. There is no Edo /English accent .or urhobo English accent. Come out of this religious circle .
RELIGION IS A DISEASE.

Christianity Etc › Re: Pastors And Body Guards. by Joagbaje(m): 6:05pm On Apr 28, 2011

What Of chief zebrudaya accent? Alias 4:30

Christianity Etc › Re: Who Do You Pay Your Tithe To? by Joagbaje(m): 5:35pm On Apr 28, 2011

Several pastors have approach tithing in different wrong way. Some also have said if you dont tithe God will put a curse on you.etc. But that doesn't make tithing wrong. The issue is not what a pastor said. Tithing is based on principles of faith. There is no scripture where God puts an end to that principle. Just like prayer, worship, honouring your parents etc. These are principles and not commandments. If you don't tithe , don't boast against it. It's like a man that says he doesn't pray and he still makes money or he doesn't go to church again and he didn't die. Does that make him right? NO .You may not know what you're missing. Cup don't get filled overnight. Some things takes time to show .but don't boast against the word. I once heard a boy call God stupid and he asked did I die?

Christianity Etc › Re: Do We Have To Take Our Pastor/Priest Words and Directives? by Joagbaje(m): 5:23pm On Apr 28, 2011

Different ministers function at different levels of faith and knowledge. Some have greater truths than others. Whatever church you are . You ought to submit to the authority there in every way.

Hebrews 13:17
17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that [is] unprofitable for you.

But If you have problem with any issue there. Go to the church authority for scriptural clarification, knowing that you may be wrong . Bit if the explanation is not convincing to you. You are free to move to a church who's doctrine suits your heart.

Also ,A man has to be led of the holyghost before changing church.

Christianity Etc › Re: Why are Amputated Limbs not healed by prosperity preachers ? by Joagbaje(m): 5:10pm On Apr 28, 2011

^^^^^
I'm sure you're making reference to my post. To be maimed means to be severly wounded . It doesn't mean amputation in the sense on this senseless thread. But I am not by any means saying Jesus could not have caused new hand to grow or new legs to grow. If he could raise a stinking dead man , he could do any miracle. I was only trying to bring out the foolishness of such posts.

My point if you observed was that an amputee does not need healing. He needs a creative miracle. And we have several men of God who had been used to perform creative miracles. Fingers growing out. New eyeball growing out of the socket. Such miracles was recorded in the life of people like William During Good Friday miracle crusade with Pastor Chris few years ago. There was a special anointing in that meeting that caused short legs to grow out. When such people were called for prayers, some had to leave their shoes behind because they were wearing special shoes. One shorter than the other to balance their steps, It is called creative miracle and not healing. So the construction was wrong . That was my point .

Christianity Etc › Re: Who Do You Pay Your Tithe To? by Joagbaje(m): 4:33pm On Apr 28, 2011

Tee_Jay:
The scripture makes no reference to any annulment of tithing lays

Tee-Jay , you are absolutely correct . There is no single scripture that says tithing was anuled . Even though the law was anuled ,tithing preceeded the law and also outlive the law. The levitical priesthood is over. The church has become the ground of truth. And God expects us to fulfill obligations in the church as men did under the OT.

1 Corinthians 9:13-14
13 Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar? 14 Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.

Christianity Etc › Re: Why are Amputated Limbs not healed by prosperity preachers ? by Joagbaje(m): 4:23pm On Apr 28, 2011

@newmi
Why bother with this Nairaland clown. More people are getting to see his folly. A sensible man would have at least watched the video first. But a fools mouth run faster than his brain grin

.

Proverbs 29:20
20 Seest thou a man that is hasty in his words? there is more hope of a fool than of him.

Christianity Etc › Re: Pastors And Body Guards. by Joagbaje(m): 3:17pm On Apr 28, 2011

dare2think:
@ Mr Jo

Thanks for your reply, though i dont agree with it 100%.

i will like to know the part you dont agree with

One more thing, Does Oyakilome have security?.

i dont want to be answering personal question for pastor chris. either he wears singlet or boxer. But if security is common sense ,you bet he ought to have.

Another, do you aknowlegde that some Mog's are fraudulent? or do you just accept anybody with that label?
Thanks.

of course MOGs can be answered by anybody. the bible is clear on how to test every spirit. we know the wrong ones from wht they profess. about jesus and about salvation. we judge a man by his profession. e.g who is jesus to him. what is his concept of salvation. jesus was clear when he says "he that is not agaimst us is for us" Jesus was clear when he said "No man that does a miracle in my name will not speak evil of me' thats how to judge according to truth. but what do we have these days? people judge others becasue they dont do what we do, we dont like his style,we dont like how he talk and dress. thats not how to judge by truth. that personal religiousity.

even if somebody does wrong. we have two issues here. One is to know if the guy is a christian or a real MOG who made a mistake in conduct or doctrine. the second one is to know if he was never saved but is a wolve. A real christian who made a mistake needs correction BY THE WORD. the bible says to restore such a one in the spirit of meekness. not in open forum. if you are busy discussing others on the internet and they are your brothers and sisters in christ who may not even know this site exist not to talk of reading it. you are doing what the bible call "busybody".

1 Peter 4:15
15 But let none of you suffer as a murderer. . ., or as a busybody in other men's matters.

if i see a man going wrong way . i do my best to reach him personaly or if i cant i do intercession for him, thats walking in love. if you make a sport of jumping on other peoples case in their mistakes ,the bible says you yourself will one day fall into such. becasue youre not walking in love.

Galatians 6:1
Bear and Share the Burdens
1 Brethren, if a man is overtaken in any trespass, you who are spiritual restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness, considering yourself lest you also be tempted.

we cant be taking communion with the blood of jesus and be stabbing each other and tearing this same body apart in our selfishness and ego.

i dont deny there are fasle ministers / i dont deny also the fact that a real minister could fall into a mistake. its not a must ,but it can happen. what is wrong is the open shame we bring to the body of christ in publiuc instead of praying . every proud man will be brought low until you realise that by grace we stand.

Christianity Etc › You Stand In Christ Stead- Pastor Chris by Joagbaje(op): 9:28am On Apr 28, 2011

John 16:23
And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you ().

As Christians, we don’t need an intermediary between us and the Father. Hence we don’t pray to the Father through Jesus, but in the Name of Jesus. To pray through Jesus is to make Him a medium or intermediary to the Father, and that’s wrong. But to pray in the Name of Jesus means your standing in the place of Jesus; you’ve become His voice!

All through the Scriptures, there’s no place where the Christian is asked to pray to Jesus or through Jesus. Neither do you ask the Father to grant your request for “Jesus’ sake,” for God wouldn’t answer your prayers for Jesus’ sake. He loves you as much as He loves Jesus. So when you pray to the Father in the Name of Jesus, it’s as though Jesus Himself were praying, because you stand in His stead.

In Philippians 2:9, the Holy Spirit reveals to us through the Apostle Paul that “God also hath highly exalted him (Jesus), and given him a name which is above every name.” In other words, the Name of Jesus is the biggest Name in heaven. So whatever you ask the Father in the Name of Jesus is granted you because of the authority of JESUS – the One in whose Name you’re asking!

Jesus gave us the legal right to use His Name. Not having the right understanding of how to use that Name will make your prayer life ineffective. We have the right of attorney to function in His stead, the same way a delegated member of a presidents cabinet can represent him at a state function.

So every time you pray to the Father, in the Name of Jesus, be conscious that you’re praying in Jesus’ stead; therefore, whatsoever you ask the Father in His Name, He will give it to you. Jesus has delegated His authority to you; the same authority He had on earth. So today, you can request anything in His Name, and it will be granted you.

Prayer
Heavenly Father, I thank you for teaching me how to pray the right way, using the Name of Jesus! I declare today that I’m making progress in my life and bringing glory to you because the Name of Jesus is named upon me! I function in, and by the power of that Name today! Hallelujah!

Further Study
John 16:23-27
And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you. Hitherto have ye asked nothing in my name: ask, and ye shall receive, that your joy may be full. These things have I spoken unto you in proverbs: but the time cometh, when I shall no more speak unto you in proverbs, but I shall shew you plainly of the Father. At that day ye shall ask in my name: and I say not unto you, that I will pray the Father for you: For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God.

Christianity Etc › Re: What Have You Done With The Word? – Pastor Chris by Joagbaje(op): 7:31am On Apr 28, 2011

Why not study the "WORD"

Christianity Etc › Re: Churhes That Collect Tithes And First Fruits Are All Thieves by Joagbaje(m): 3:00pm On Apr 27, 2011

KunleOshob:
@joagbaje
Your opinion doesn't matter Jesus clearly stated what the greatest mandate of christianity is and that is LOVE. The fact that you find it difficult to fulfil this mandate of christ does not mean you should substitute it with what you prefer. Granted Jesus mandated his followers to preach the gospel but you cannot be his true follower in the first instance if you don't obey his greatest commandment which is love. And it is a false notion that christian love should be limited to believers, we are mandated to love non believers as well. If you understand the parable of the good samaritan, then this would become glaring to you. I won't debate the charity issue with you cause I never raised the issue in the first instance, but if you have the love of christ in you charitable causes would be second nature to you. No one would need to tell you.

How do you know my love walk and my charity work. You don't know me to judge my commitment to helping people. If i share what I do, you will say it is boasting. Kí lo fé kí n se?

The fact remains that evangelism is the primary responsibility of every christian.

Christianity Etc › Re: Why God? by Joagbaje(m): 1:43pm On Apr 27, 2011

The life of man was perfect until the devil showed up and cause man to fall. God still made plan "b" for man. Any man that now refuse to yield to the plan "B" can not blame the devil again but himself.

Christianity Etc › Re: Why are Amputated Limbs not healed by prosperity preachers ? by Joagbaje(m): 1:01pm On Apr 27, 2011

^^^^^

The guy has made his intention clear, he is not after proof for miracles to glorify christ. He is out to kill people's faith in the power of the name of Jesus . That sounds like an anti christ to me. See his response in another thread.

From Earswide

Where is my 'hyprocrisy' ? I am not asking for proof so I can believe the miracle - I am asking for proof because I know it is a lie and I want to expose it

Christianity Etc › Re: Pastors And Body Guards. by Joagbaje(m): 12:32pm On Apr 27, 2011

Come one nuclear boy .
What is your palaver with another person hairstyle and accent. Don't you have your own

Christianity Etc › Re: Churhes That Collect Tithes And First Fruits Are All Thieves by Joagbaje(m): 11:26am On Apr 27, 2011

The guy has been on Nairaland since January 2009. I came in end of the year . So if you have no good thing to contribute dude. Simply leave your computer alone.

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