₦airaland Forum

Church is not a charity organisation

OLAADEGBU:
You would rather we pretend nothing is happening and sweep it under the carpet so that many more unsuspecting souls be damned, right?

You didn't supply enough information to justify these "exposure" . Is tod reading Nairaland? What is the purpose of such tale? Does it edify anybody or win a soul to christ?. The only thing you could have achieved is to stir the saints to pray for any person going over the edge. It should rather be presented in that spirit of intercession and not these latest gist of Nairaland.

Besides I would have love to know , does he have results with these extreme?. For example do people get healed or receive miracles.  Smith wigglesworth has some exteme faith demonstrations too ,but the result shows it was of God. He once punched someone with stomach pain and the pain left .he had raised some dead people before, but one occasion , He prayed for a dead man and the man didn't rise. Smith picked the body and threw the man against the wall ,he came alive!. Someone who had goitre came to smith , he pulled the goitre and it left. I don't just jump excitedly at every church story , it can be true or false . I work with proper information . I'm not taking side with bently, I don't know him and I don't admire such ministration but we should find out first if it's of God or the devil. And what is the purpose of such story? Sometimes we carry stories of people who made mistakes and have repented of them .

God didn't ordain that we take one another's matter public . There is no biblical justification for what many do here on Nairaland. Church matters should be judged in the church.

1 Corinthians 6:1
1 Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints?

Our work is restoration and prayer.

sarmy:
You said God does not hear sinners except their prayer of salvation, so who is responsible for answering their other prayers?
Are they really living by chance?

Yes they live by chance and they enjoy the general blessings upon humanity.

OLAADEGBU:
Are you scare that you might be losing your disciples?

Not at all. That should rather be your own fear. The truth is gaining ground daily. We are raising sons to glory.

Here are some answers from past post that you either glossed over or did not see.

Back to the Opening Post. The following verses of Scriptures proves to me that the Apostles were born again during the earthly ministry of our Lord Jesus Christ, and this is reflected in the prayer He prayed for them when He was yet to be crucified and resurrected.
 
These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word. -- John 17:2-6

It's on a promissory note. He has written a will. This car is yours , this house is yours . But the man has to die first before you can lay hold on the house.

Hebrews 9:16-18
16 For where there is a [last] will and testament involved, the death of the one who made it must be established, 17 For a will and testament is valid and takes effect only at death, since it has no force or legal power as long as the one who made it is alive. 18 So even the [old] first covenant (God's will) was not inaugurated and ratified and put in force without the shedding of blood.


Jesus didn't function in the new testament. The salvation package is in the new testament. Which was ratified by his blood. The lamb of God didnt take away sin by preaching. He took away Sin by his death.

Here you see our Lord, Jesus Christ with what is called the "high priestly prayer," that He offered at night when He was approaching His appointed hour. He said in His prayers what eternal life means and that He has given it to His Apostles as well as His disciples. Does this not mean that the Apostles were born again as at the time Jesus was praying for them? Jesus said again in verse 6, that these disciples whom the Father has given to Him have kept His Word. Is this not telling us that these disciples were born again?

Why was he praying for them to be one in him? .  He has to come into us. He wasnt in them yet. The life is in christ. When he comes into a person. He supplants the old life. Being born again is not about following religious dogma but having a new recreated spirit.The holy spirit has to bring Jesus into a man because the life is in christ.

1 John 5:11-12
11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

The apostles didn't believe Jesus would rise from the dead. They believed he came from God, he had the teaching of life.but the key thing about the life is his death. They didn't have faith in his death.

Romans 10:9
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

He didn't just come to preach, he came to die. That is where life begins for the church .

John 12:32-33
32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me. 33 This he said, signifying what death he should die.


Man was only reconciled through his death. Not through his preaching.

Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee. For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me. I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine. -- John 17:7-9

If this does not mean that they were born again then I don't know what it means. Note the difference between the world and those that belong to the Father.

They were his disciples. They stuck with him despite all the false accusation. They believed he came from God and saviour of israel. They served with him.But remember he had over 120 disciples. Not just the twelve. Why would he get only 12 born again ? What about the 70 he sent out.the twelve only were closer to him . And among them he still had 3 that seem to be inner caucus members. That doesn't have anything  to do with salvation. It's a relationship thing .God is not a respecter of men. There's no preference. This goes for the rest of your post.

There is notjing physically attractive about the land of isreal. No crude oil like other arab nations. It is not even big .But everyone wants the land of israel. The small land has become the center of world crisis. Why ? There is something special about the land spiritually.

Why does satan attack the giving of tithes. People of God give lands, cars and even empty their bank account to God and to his work .it looks ok. But if a man give just 10% the devil will attack. Why is there so much attack on the tithes? Which is only a tenth. There is something special about the tithe. That's why satan attacks it so much. Just like the land of Israel.

Disciples , or What do you mean? I suppose you knew all these or are you pulling someone's leg?

^^^^
this guy is really really obsessed with pastor chris. You have idolised him. You dream him , you think him, you are drunk with him. THATS GOOD!

ogajim:
Pastor JoAgbaje, This sounds like spiritual or intellectual 419

What is 419 here? Must you guys always vomit abuses and insults . Which Jesus do you serve?

to insinuate that the passage you quoted encourage believers to utter some repetitive stuff that they've practiced over time as "spiritual prayer"

Repetitive stuff ,yeah ! Not bad, there could be some repetitions. It's not man's language. It was prophesied to be so. They will speak with stammer . Bibobo lekeke

Isaiah 28:11
11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.

Jesus Christ came to simplify everything (prayers included) for us and even gave us Our Lord's prayer, left us the Holy Spirit(which dwells in every believer) to be our guide, when they say "praying in the Spirit", it means praying within you my brother.

Where did you get this trash from ? From quoran ?. Let me have your reference.

sarmy

sarmy:
So who is answering their prayers?

The bible was clear , they are without God.

Ephesians 2:12
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

They are without God, the only prayer God would hear from a sinner is a prayer of salvation. Whats the point of God hearing prayer of a sinner and the sinner still end up in hell? They leave by chance ,they function in the realm of the senses . God is a spirit , their prayer is outside Gods will .he doesn't hear sinners.

John 9:31
31 Now we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God, and doeth his will, him he heareth.

Back to topic. When did the apostles get born again.
Answer: when Jesus resurrected and breathed upon them giving them authority to forgive sin.

John 20:20-23
20 And when he had so said, he shewed unto them [his] hands and his side. Then were the disciples glad, when they saw the Lord. 21 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace [be] unto you: as [my] Father hath sent me, even so send I you. 22 And when he had said this, he breathed on [them], and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost: 23 Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; [and] whose soever [sins] ye retain, they are retained.

An unbeliever has no relationship with God.

Ephesians 2:12
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

1 Corinthians 2:14
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned[color]

[color=#990000]1 John 5:14
14 And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us:

John 14:21
21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
.[/color]

The bible is not against slavery but it's against cruelty . Slavery is synonymous to servanthood. God laid out how to treat servants well . But not in the sense of abuse as in the colonial slavery.

babaearly:
Uncle Jo is in a state of ultimate delusion.
Speaking in trash is bullshit.

Kí NI mo se fún e? Explain your bulshit. I quoted the bible .

gacha:
@Joagbaje. What I find most humorous in your last post is dat " the holy spirit prays thru us wen speaking in tongues" what does that mean ?

Do you believe in the bible,  I quoted the bible sir. See the bolder part below

Romans 8:26-27
26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings [/b]which cannot be uttered. 27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, [b]because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

The bible says God hears us if we pray according to his will. Praying in the spirit is the best way to pray according to Gods will.

If I attack your errors of salvation that says sinners don't need to repent,

What Sinners need is a brand new life and nature dude. The new life supplants the old.

that Christ's apostles weren't saved, that you know better than the apostles, or even Jesus Christ, that Jesus needed to be born again you should not think that I am attacking your person,

Keep twisting my posts,shey it makes you feel good. You ought to rather humble yourself to admit your mistakes. No man could be born again without the shedding of the blood of Jesus we became reconciled to God through his death.

Romans 6:5-6
5 If we have been united with him like this in his death, we will certainly also be united with him in his resurrection. 6 For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin –

I don't want to believe this error of yours is what your pastor teaches. I have given many references that you need to humble yourself to study.

if you really want to save yourself and others who listen to your errors you will examine your doctrines to see whether they are from the pit of hell.

I thank God for the doctrinal amendment the holyghost has done in you guys so far. I don't need to argue much . We pray, he knocks out everything that is not of him. Plus your manipulative ,carnal and judgemental spirit which people like you often display .

Ndipe:
This is my first time of seeing a picture of TB Joshua aligning Christianity (the 'effigy' of Jesus Christ on the cross) along with a quranic inscription that proclaims the deity of allah? Quite shocking. Jojogabe, is that where you worship?

Ask your friend how many years ago that picture was taken. Maybe 20 years ago. Spirituality is not it the outward pretence. It is the devil that dwells on a man's past. Does tb Joshua still believe that jehovah is allah till now? . Knowledge increase everyday . How can a man be digging a past that God has forgotten? We still have many christian today that still believe God is Allah. I thought so too until i read a book ." Who is this Allah?".

Because a man made an inscription on the wall many years ago, we won't let him rest? Is the inscritption still there? This action is typical of these religious people. Even when God forgives a man of an error , a religious man will not let go. How can a spiritual chritian be digging an old picture ? I hope he won't dig up in people commit in their childhood days?

@froebel

The elect its talking about tribulation saints and not the church. There will be  another rapture or "catching up" in the tribulation. It is exclusively for the Jews. The church rapture will take place before the tribulation.

OLAADEGBU:
Who is the hypocrite here?  Was it not you that started getting personal mentioning my church and accusing us of being hypocritical?  What has that got to do with the subject at hand?  And you are now accusing me and my church of being hypocritical and busybodies in other men's matters.

I'm not the one that started getting personal,But you. You keep labelling us as a sect.

I have also discovered that these sects don't even believe that sinners need to repent from their sins and they believe that once saved they are forever saved.  Happy reading

It is not the first time you do these attacks.

Tb joshua may have made his mistakes in the past doctrinally . Many churches have, just as you are making your own mistake with apostolic salvation . The fact that God calls a man doesn't mean he will automatically know scriptures . You must study to know or be taught to know. Many  Ministers today still make mistakes and will still make mistakes if they dont study. Tb joshua was gifted with healing and prophecy. Most prophets are not teachers neither scholars . If a man build ministry on gifts only , he will enter error.  You yourself gave a link of ministers that couldn't define salvation properly. Tb Joshua needed good people to help him straightens things out. Not for them to look for his destruction.  Anybody can make a mistake. But God sees a man's heart. Since He invited pastor chris and they met, things around him began to change. Doctrinally and otherwise . Thats what the bible wants us to do.

Redeem church was once a White garment church , but the founder who was gifted also in healings and prophecy received help from more enlightened people. Like pastor adeboye and others They left the old testament doctrine. And move to perfection.

Galatians 6:1
1 Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.

21-05-2011:
35 days more!!!!!!!!!

May God forgive us for our sins that we might enter the kingdom of heaven. 
May He open our hears that we might hear and obey His word.

Father forgive the OP for uninspired prophecy in thy name , Amen

@gacha

gacha:
From your position, I want to ask a question thus, wat language does God not understand ? When Jesus himself taught the disciples how to pray (the lord's prayer) was it in any special language and can u see how simple and direct d prayer was ?

That was before the church was born.  It's a higher level of praying . It's a promise for the church

Mark 16:17
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

Praying in tongues doesn't have to be in earthly language It's a spiritual experience.MIT may sound nonsensical but it's the most perfect way to pray. When we pray in our understanding there are limitations ,but praying in tongues helps a man pray according to the will of God for the particular situation Because it is the holy spirit himself is the one praying through us. 

Romans 8:26-27
26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. 27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

The best way to pray in the will of God is to pray in tongues

yommyuk:
Romans 1:5-6
"Since we have been united with him in his death, we will also be raised to life as he was. We know that our old sinful selves were crucified with Chirst so that sin might lose its power in our lives. We are no longer slaves to sin"

i think you should re check your quote. its not Romans 1. it sounds like language of romans 6. which dealth with sin.

amen

MBG4Real:
The family radio based in US has been propergating the end of the world to be near. According to them, the date is May 21st 2011. Can anyone confirm this. They have biblical evidence of this date and audio recoding on their website.

They even commented on the bibilical fact that No one knows the date and the time that has been set by God.

See the links below:

http://www.familyradio.com/index2.html

http://www.familyradio.com/graphical/literature/judgment/judgment.html

There wiil still be a a 7 year priod of tribulation after the rapture of the church and aditional 1,000 years of millenial reign on this earth before the world will come to an end and a new earth emerges. "Thus sayeth Bibeli"

Image123:
@ezniteadin
What can i say? not sure the 'dl members' would come to speak on behalfs, so let me sort of input one or two things/Open thy mouth for the dumb as it were. If it were some other popular church(es), i guess they wouldn't have/need this sort of speak on behalf. Firstly, i think it's wrong avenue for you to address issues with them, i'm sure you know the road to their church office or headquarters, except you just want to incite ridicule and unbelief here. You're not a member of that church, what you should do is meet the church leadership itself or meet God i.e pray, intercede for them. there's nothing prayer cannot do, coming here to complain about perceived lost glory is not the best. Every church has a similar story and need our earnest prayers, not criticisms and discouragements.

This is the truth many lack.

@ Op

How do you know they no longer have prayer group. im not aware there is any gospel church without prayer groups.

^^^
Still kicking the devil underfoot.

It's called GPS coordinates.

donnie:

Na wao. This could have made the front page if it had anything to do (even remotely) with CE of Pst Chris.

Well , I'm not really proud of that link .We are still one body. I'm not into these nonsense gossip they do. I'm just fed up with the hypocrisy of these religious guys who keep log in their eyes and be pointing to pebble in the eye of another. What has a topic on salvation got to do with condemnation of others. Can they just be discipline to face topic instead of attacking others.

^^^^
Another attempt to change the topic,since you're stuck in error.

1 Peter 4:15
15 But let none of you suffer as . .  busybody in other men's matters.

Well, Since Satan has given you GBEBOORUN in other people's matter.  This link might interest your hypocrisy for your GBEBOORUN ministry

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-620124.0.html