₦airaland Forum

SirJohn:
You see Jo, this is where I have issues with you. You can only make the statement above for yourself and your local church, not for CEC. People cannot make this much noise just because they some airtime to spare. some pastors especially in CE employ the most unbelievable tactics to make people part with their monies. For example, I know at least five CE branches (group church) where a form of forceful giving is employed;
- church staff are not paid January salaries because the pastor says the salary should go for first fruits.

- Whenever a zonal pastor or deacon or even Chris celebrates his/her birthday, each church staff is levied a  particular amount of money which is deducted from their salaries before it even gets to them.
now this is just a little of many other funny tactics
You might be a gentleman pastor Jo, don't think others are like you!

It's not a bad idea if money is deducted from source for whatever,Some actually prefer it that way . But it must be by the consent of the giver. It's their money.

SirJohn:
You've called me that several times Jo, but no sweat Chris Oyakhilome shares the same status with me' at least you confirmed that

I'm not aware you're minister, I would offer open apology if you are.

Image123:
Are you not the same person that was saying here last week that there's no space/place for your pastor in Heaven? At least, James get space for there na.

Where did I say such nonsense?

aletheia:
^^^
When did the tribulation start?

Immediately after the rapture. The emergence of the antichrist. The anger of God will visit the earth. The first three and half years is with false peace. The remaining three and half years which is called "the great tribulation" will be manifestation of terror.

KunleOshob:
@joagbaje
That is becos CE puts soooo much pressure on members to bring money to there coffers. Why CE is always mentioned is becos a large portion of this proceeds of crime is always given to CE. That is why your church is very dangerous, thru your greed you are breeding criminals and prostitu.tes and CE members don't have problems with commiting crime or immorality becos of the erronous poison they are fed with that as christians they can't sin.

.Nobody is ever forced to give. Nobody has the right to force one into giving. We give voluntarily with joy. Some people may be mad at giving and complain and say all manner of rubbish. Why don't you enter a CEC church and see if any one will stand by you and say you must give. Offering bags are passed , if you have , you put in, if don't have you pass it on. Service close , you go home.

And Where did you get this prosti-tute idea of yours from? Why would a Christian prosti.tute to give God? You keep feeding on junk papers and blogs .If a man gives to God , he is blessed for it. That doesnt mean that one should commit crime to give.Whoever will commit crime may try to bribe God by thinking if he give to God he won't be caught. But that not right. And it doesn't mean the pastor supports such. Members may not be perfect. Jesus didn't have perfect congregation in his days, neither Paul had a perfect congregation. You don't judge a pastor by what a member did.you judge a man by his teaching. Pastor chris teaches against criminality. In the message "ANTICIPATING EVIL" He even said if you find a huge amount of money on the ground what do you do? He said don't bring it to church, but take it to a police station. Make sure you go with enough witnesses and lawyer to avoid evil there.

  You create an idea of pastor chris and feed on news that support this false idea. People have different opinion about jesus too. A good man should be objective to hear the two sides. And know who is lying. Many portrayed Jesus as a deceiver in his day. Many belied he was.

John 7:12
12 The crowds argued about Jesus. Some people said,"He's a good man,"while others said,"No he isn't. He deceives the people."

Only God knows how many people died with that idea that Jesus was a deceiver and a dupe .

@simpleme
Only few people made contribution on this your thread. . But if you had written "A PASTOR STOLE MY GENERATOR" you will have it busy.It just reveal the nature of Nairaland at the moment. But it will change one day. People will visit this site and be blessed. We will understand real Christianity .

I will post my testimonies shortly .

From my post you can see I believe it's pre tribulation

The word of God is more current than tommorows newspaper. 2012 prophecy is a lie. Based on guess work. They may sound logical but they are not word based. Every event in the last days are clearly predicted in the bible.

And according to scriptures, the next major event in the world is going to be a sudden disappearance of millions of people from all over the world called "The rapture" of the church. Imediately Afer that is the 7year peace accord in the middle east. Isreal and Palestine will unite in peace under the Antichrist,But after 3 and half the peace accord will be broken and this will trigger the tribulation . After the seven years, the second coming if christ will take place and the battle of armagedon . Between the tribulation and armegedon , there will be climatic change , there will be changes in the solar system and the galaxy.After the battle comes the 1,000 millennia reign of christ kingdom on the earth. After this 1,000 years . The final judgement of the nations will take place. Sinners will be sent into lake of fire plus death and hell. Then finally a new heaven and a new earth .

So all scientific predictions contrary to this will not stand. People have scientifically predicted end of the world for several years .but none came to pass because they are not consistent with the bible even though they sounded logical.

Image123

Image123:
Senor Jo is quoting baby James ke? Is this a sign of homility or what? I thought he'd quote the most rev. Chris. Ph.D, M.Sc, B.Bc, A.It

James is a man of God, I never denied that, I only Pointed areas where his teachings had not been consistent with other body of truth that's all. And each time I emphasised that James had great spiritual principles. He was renowned for high moral teaching among the early apostles , they even gave him a Nick name .

cogicero:
this thread is the best i have ever seen here then joabagaje had to come and spoil it

Nothing is spoil , we are only trashing some inconsistencies. If you preach love, you should walk in love. That's my point.

Enigma:
The same place where you find your authorisation to call 'ministers' "spiritual vagabonds".  

A spiritual vagabond is a man who doesn't have a church. I never called any minister a vagabond.

Pastor AIO:
Joagbaje as far as I can tell, no one here hates you.

I'm not talking about attacks against me, you must not see things my way. that's ok.

They may not like the things you say, and your obfuscation of the gospel but no one hates you. Even Jesus said, 'as many as I love, I rebuke and chasten'. Criticism is not hatred. It is often an expression of love.
And furthermore, every christian is an anointed man.

Explain my obfuscation of the gospel pls. Because to many people ,I bring the gospel to light in my posts. So if there are issues you're not clear with , simply bring it up. If I'm wrong I will accept.

@enigma.

Enigma:
Anyway, the people that we call names are the same kind of people that Jesus also called names, that the apostle Peter also called names, that the apostle Paul also called names and that virtually each book of the New Testament teaches us to be vigilant about as they come inside the church with poison to damage the church from inside.
So, tell Jesus, Peter, Paul etc that they did not love their neighbour.

That is just hypocritical, you can't be preaching love and walking in hatred and condemnation. It takes an anointed man to rebuke or correct an anointed man. Jesus was an apostle , Peter was an apostle, Paul was an apostle. Who are you? Even demons recognise the difference.

Did Jesus give you such assignment?  To do verbal attacks against ministers. Where is it in your bible?

Romans 14:4
4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

KunleOshob:
^^^
Well I don't believe the story, but that doesn't take away the fact that too many scandalous things are associated with oyaks and his church and many of them are true.

How many have been independently investigated? What crime has the man of God committed except that he preaches Jesus to people. Some few memmbers may have done some things wrong. But you can't hold a pastor responsible for their crime. He teaches against criminal acts. And whoever will commit a crime obviously is not beeing submissive to his teachings. Several churches have members commit crimes , some are in prison today. But you won't hear the name of their churches. But if it's a CEC member they want to get at the pastor and even forget the members crime.

^^^^
my emphasis is not the shouting of Jesus but the fact that he excused himself from others.

The term ,Man of God is strictly used for men in an office. According to scrptures , both Old and new testament.
It is a fact that We all have equall grace , equal salvation. But leadership is something else.The principle of submission to leadership is an eternal principle. There is hierarchy among angels , demons, and men. 
Satan is constantly fighting leadership while God frowns at lack of submission to it.

Hebrews 13:17
17 Obey your spiritual leaders and submit to them[ continually recognizing their authority over you], for they are constantly keeping watch over your souls and guarding your spiritual welfare, as men who will have to render an account[ of their trust].[ Do your part to] let them do this with gladness and not with sighing and groaning, for that would not be profitable to you[ either]. 

As much as we have right to worship God with liberty , we ought not to disturb other people. If you must ray loud which cannot be avoided sometimes, then you need to go to a place by yourself like Jesus did.

Luke 6:12
12 And it came to pass in those days, that he went out into a mountain to pray, and continued all night in prayer to God.

@my Joe ,

MyJoe:
@Joagbaje
That was wonderful and I have no doubt God will reward you. But I think you should not have uploaded the pictures without the young man's consent, as some people take privacy matters rather seriously.

What makes you think I don't have his consent ? Maybe I should upload his personal testimony on youtube.

KunleOshob:
@alethia
Nice comprehensive clear and precise write up, unfortunately the likes of uncle joe who should benefit from it are soo immersed in their delusion of self importance and creating an impression that they have special access to God and the rest of us must use them as intermediary.

Dude, Im a gifted skilled business man , making honest money and I don't plagiarise books as handouts.

@altheia,

Your post was a lengthy one as usual but it is lengthy with substance . I must commend your great effort. Another thing I will commend you for is that there is no abuse and insult. I wish we can always air our differences this way and christ be glorified.

I would have loved to comment on your post one by one to explain but I am tight with time so I will summarise.

aletheia:
Your words disprove your claims. What office are Christians anointed into, if not the office of priests and kings in Jesus?
#1. John makes clear that all Christians are anointed.

I agree with you . But you should know There are different kinds of anointings as I explained in some other posts. There is a general anointing for all Christians by consecration. There is another anointing which is enduement for a man who has received the empowerment of the holyghost which is promised to every believer. Then, there is an anointing for an office which is only for those called into an office. This is not the general bone for every Christian. This is where you seem to be mixing it up. I don't deny that we are anointed . But there are different kinds of anointings.
 

#2. All Christians are priests and kings. These were the positions that only a few individuals were anointed into in the OT. 

But in Christ, all are kings and priests. As it is written:
And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen. [Revelation 1:6]

I agree we are. All the principles of God are constant. 

But ye shall be named the Priests of the LORD: men shall call you the Ministers of our God: ye shall eat the riches of the Gentiles, and in their glory shall ye boast yourselves. [Isaiah 61:6]

There is much to this scripture . I will comment on it later. This is a law of double reference. Which is applicable to the church and israel as a nation. But whatever the application, it's not to the Favour of what you stand for.  If you use it for Israel, it proves they were all priests unto the lord generically. Which was my point. If you use it for the church, then why are you against the prosperity message for the Christians " ye shall eat the riches of the Gentiles". . . . . Well that's by the way. . . .

Is it only some Christians that are sent from God or all that are sent? All Christians are called---indeed ekklesia implies called out and hagios is sacred--->

Yes we are all sent in generic the word apostle is from the Greek apostelos . Which mean ps "sent one" I agree but there is an office of an apostle . We are called to evangelise but there is a special office of the evangelist. We may evangelise but that doesnt mean we are called into the office of the evangelist. We may all prophesy but that doesnt mean we are all called into the office of the prophet. I hope my point is clearer now.

1 Corinthians 12:29
29[ Are] all apostles?[ are] all prophets?[ are] all teachers?[ are] all workers of miracles? 

From your analogy this scripture above would be erroneous. Since we are all sent . Then we are all apostle. 

Back to your contention about Korah et al. It shows you did not study the passage well. Korah and his supporters died not because they told Moses "we are all anointed".  That was indeed the truth---they died because they sought to usurp the Priesthood of Aaron;

That's not true, their problem was this same spirit of irreverence for spiritual heads. "we are all thesame" pls  try read it up in other translations .

Numbers 16:3 (LT)
3 They went to Moses and Aaron and said,"We have had enough of your presumption; you are no better than anyone else; everyone in Israel has been chosen of the Lord, and he is with all of us. What right do you have to put yourselves forward, claiming that we must obey you, and acting as though you were greater than anyone else among all these people of the Lord?"

So it was a rebellion against leadership that was being dealt with. Not recognising the anointing upon a leader. 

The whole of Israel were a holy nation and priests unto the Lord. 
And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel. [Exodus 19:6]

What this meant was that every family was to present the first-born male (a type of Christ) as consecrated and holy unto the Lord,  . . .

This is not really making much sense to me in this regard but I want to go over the rest of them again and respond.

So MISITER Enigma, are you loving your neighbour, with all these personal attacks and name callings that you guys enjoy to do?

James 3:10-15
10 Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be. 11 Doth a fountain send forth at the same place sweet[ water] and bitter? 12 Can the fig tree, my brethren, bear olive berries? either a vine, figs? so[ can] no fountain both yield salt water and fresh. 13 Who[ is] a wise man and endued with knowledge among you? let him shew out of a good conversation his works with meekness of wisdom. 14 But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth. 15 This wisdom descendeth not from above, but[ is] earthly, sensual, devilish.

^^^^
I am not attacking Tonye-T. I just don't like this idea of evil speaking against the church. Unbelievers are watching and getting hardened . Thats 1. The second one is if we have to judge , it should be by the word , we should not condemn others . But we can analyse doctrine by scriptures . For example , winners chapel does washing of feet, church of latter reign baptise  for the dead. I should not say bishop oyedepo is a false prophet for doing feet washing and I don't , but I would rather discuss the doctrine. E.g feet washing , "is it scriptural?" I  will give my opinion by scriptures , you will give your opinion by scriptures and we leave it that way. But for me to say the bishop is decieving people for filthy lucre sake is a sin sir. It is not in our place . We leave the motive of the heart to God.

Besides, your title was not very appropriate . If you had mentioned specific troubles in the churches , I will gladly contribute but you asked if Pentecostalism will last , and I contributed in my first post according to the title.

InesQor:
You poison the public waters by spreading false doctrines and making mockeries of the gospel of Christ, majoring on irrelevancies for filthy lucre's sake.

The bad thing about your type of poison is that it is carefully mixed with Biblical truth and stir-fried before you feed the masses. So it tastes similar, it only has a spicy tang (used to mask the concentrated taste of the poison) to it and it results in death. If you want to poison your church, I don't have jurisdiction there. It's those who are stubborn adherents in the light of contrary evidence that have themselves to be blamed for wanting to be deceived.

What is the poison? Let's analyse them. You should know by scriptures that people call truth heresy just because it seems new to them. So don't judge by your shortsightedness or feeling and level of knowledge. Analyse the error by the light of scriptures . You will be able to see if you are really right or wrong.

It's important for us to know if you are born again and spirit filled. And if you are , have you talked with your pastor? What did he say? What mabel said may not be overrulled. Some levels of anger, hatred and unforgiveness are demonic. You can't manage it with psychology. You got to cast them out . They can be very destructive if you don't deal with it fast. You can reach me by mail in my profile.

1 John 5:11-12
And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life .

Society may place limits on you; your family background, the nation where you live, your education, job description, business, or finances could place limits on you. But there’s a life without limits; that’s the life Jesus brought to us; it’s the transcendent life of glory where there are no limitations.

Many know nothing about this kind of life, and so they think it doesn’t exist. That they know nothing about it doesn’t make it unreal; after all, there was a time people thought it was impossible to fly an airplane, but that, however, has become common place today. The Word teaches of a life without limits, and that’s the life to which everyone who’s born again has been called. A life unlimited by sickness, disease, failure, the devil or anything!

Jesus proved it was possible to live this triumphant life when He walked the earth. He lived a life that was greater than anything that existed on the terrestrial plane. He refused to be limited by the circumstances of this world. He tamed nature. The Bible tells us how He defied the laws of nature by walking on water (Matthew 14:25), and hushing the sea to sleep (Mark 4:39).

Not even satan, death, or the grave could limit Him. When He died, the Bible says:

. . . through that death, He paralyzed him that has the power of death, that is, the devil (Hebrews 2:14).

Thereafter, He rose triumphantly from the grave. This is the life to which you’ve been called where nothing can hinder or place limits on you. According to our opening scripture, you received this life when you were born again.

Now that you have this life in you, refuse to function according to your natural human abilities and take up God’s limitless power that’s been deposited in your spirit! The Bible says in 2 Corinthians 3:5,

“Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God…”

The word “sufficiency” is translated from the Greek, “hikanotes,” which means ability or competence. Thus, your ability to perform is of God; that means it’s unlimited. God gave you His ability so you won’t have to function with your own limited abilities but with His limitless and exhaustible strength.

Confession
I’m born again; therefore, I’m not ordinary. As the Father has life in Himself, even so has He given me to have His kind of life; life without limits. Thus, I function with supernatural strength and abilities today; nothing and no one can hurt or harm me for my sufficiency is of God! Hallelujah.

Further Study
2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

John 10:10
The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

@*666*
Who is jesus christ to you?
What are demons ? What is their origin?

After salvation we need to develop ourselves and develop the body of christ and also our world in fulfilment of Gods dream for our lives.

The title is not very appropriate. Why not call it "marriage church" And why is there so much emphasis on the pay as though it is a form of extortion? Nothing is wrong with matchmaking in Gods house provided it is done by the spirit

To all the news men that love to make money with false story about pastor chris, where is your EFFCC?? I'm not aware that EFCC will go on the Internet and news paper to announce an investigation. " WE ARE WATCHING HIM" they said. Some claim arrest was made. All just to make money with the headlines . It's Christmas time. Workers bonus has to be paid. But my question to all is "WHERE IS THE EFCC" . When will arrest be made.? If you find out that the story is false alarm. What will you do. Of course the story is false . And it should be a lesson to sly those who are gullible to evil report concerning Ministers.

Yes, To snakes!!

I'm only helping out a brother. I buy the material myself. And I give many out.

^^^^^
Just walk over to any CEC Church , you can get it on the book stand or make an order for it