₦airaland Forum

@mazaje

mazaje:
I thought some guy once said he discovered the ark of covenant and many Christians the world over went gaga claiming that the biblke is true?. . . . .No stone tablet was found therein. . . . .

I will appreciate a link to that info. I am aware that the ark Noah was discovered on mt ararat. But ark of covenant? No such news yet as far as I'm concerned. There was insinuation it was sent to Ethiopia, before the distruction of the temple. Queen Elisabeth once went there and saw an ark , but there was claim it was an imitation.

InesQor:
@Joagbaje:
Opinions are like draughts of air we are free to inhale. Every man & his dog are entitled to theirs, just like you are too. Stop poisoning public waters, #thatIsAll.

How did i poison  public water sir? When we attack and criticise the body if christ in open shame. We hurt christ. Let us preach the gospel with our time. How many souls are you winning for Jesus ?.

JeSoul:
Nice topic.

As you astutely note, we do not "need" God to tell us what is morally right or wrong, and I believe this is so because we already have a moral compass inherently built in us by which we can use to calibrate our motives and measure the morality of a action -

. . . though sometimes it is not always black and white on what is right or wrong. God's laws are written on our hearts, and the way I see it, it also doesn't hurt to have them also written on paper or should I saw stone.

This is great truth . People needed law because of the fallen nature and lack of ability to do right. But now in christ that we have the nature of God. The law of God is pre-installed in our heart as a nature. We don't need external laws .anymore , but we follow the word of God that is our manual and guide to bring out the virtue from withing us.

toneyb:
Where exactly is the stone tablet? Some one like me will like to see such a God's hand writing at least.

The tablet of the law of Moses is inside the ark of covenant. It is safely secured by God until the temple worship will resume after the rapture. before the tribulation. There is claim that the ark may be in Jerusalem or in Ethiopia . But it wasn't destroyed during the raid on the temple because they couldn't find it.

Now to the topic, theist like to claim that morality is innate in humans, because god gave us morality an atheist like me will say that why then do so many people do morally bad things? The theist will then say because we are sinners and we need god to tell us what's right.

Yes . Our conscience is the God part in us that guides our moral values and standard in any society. But because of the fallen nature , man also has innate the appetite of the fallen man.

@mabel

mabell:
@Enigma, from your statement above, i have this question to ask.
Have you not heard of online school?
The world is now a global village where you can do anything right from the comfort of your room, thanks to the internat et al.
So must one be within the four walls of a university before he is awarded a degree or must he go through stress to get one?

you shouldn't talk with assumption in my opinion. Of course I get your point , pastor chris cannot parade fake Degree. Anyone should know that . Apart from his scholasticism , he has numerous books published . He had to earn the phd not for fashion. He is publishing bibles and commentaries. He needed to have things in proper perspective.

nuclearboy:
I have seen your paintings, Jo, more than you would believe, accept or even fantasize. You are controversial and being the second Pastor at CEC that I have had reason to discuss with, I decided to find out as much as I could - Don't forget the photographs that shocked you.

The photographs didn't shock me. I have many friend on NL on my facebook. Jesoul has added more friends to me. There is nothing to hide. But I didnt think someone like you will will have such criminal tendency and bring yourself so low. To paste pictures from my library on NL. That I am a very simple and transparent person . If you know me , you will like me.

My reason was simple - is this guy real? Is he a victim or a predator? I wanted to know the WHOLE truth. I know you know what I found out.

What is so special there to find. I kill somebody ? . Was I not the one that said if you want to know my world , meet. Me on facebook. Many Nairalanders are my friends there.

NL may not allow me show what I know but instead of the complaints those morons gave, you people should have dared to challenge me at that time. I assure you you'd be off NL now for shame. Small mistakes, Jo. There is always a trail and some of us write web-scripts in Assembly language - we can go under ALL the layers.

it so amazing that up to this time you are still trying STRONG FACE for this error of yours.  You scored yourself low in the eye of everyone.

Enigma:
Yada yada same difference ---- the guy said he believed in the Holy Ghost and in the Christian god.

If he does why didn't rely on the holyghost .

Do you think that when he is before his congregation  praying, preaching, prophesying etc he will call his 'herbalist god' or he will be praying, preaching, prophesying in "Jesus name" and in the name of the "Holy Ghost" ----- just like Oyakhilome, T B Joshua etc etc.

It is very easy to know. Jesus had said that by their fruit you will know them. The first step is to know what they profess or teach. It takes the holyghost to know the doctrine of christ. A man that is not of christ is blind to truth. Fruits will be evident.

Don't worry, Jesus will recognise his own and He said He will tell some of those who did all yada yada "in His name" to depart and that He never knew the workers of iniquity.

What is yada? Misiter Enigma

Enigma:
He is a pastor ------ just like Oyakhilome, T B Joshua etc; like them, he is an MOG.

The ones you mentioned believe in christ but your guy here seem to believe in herbalist. We will like to know what he teaches. Who is Jesus christ to him.

How can a man of God go to herbalist ? Where is his God?

@enigma,
I had said in my earlier post that one could have used mog for a Christian in generic terms . Especially in a relative case. If you compare a Christian in a competition with a juju man. We may say this one is a man of the devil this one is a man of God.But we should know that dealing with specifics there is difference.thesame goes for those who serve in Gods house in the choir etc.

But in dealing with The term Man of God. We are really dealing with an office and not general name.

@VolvoS60
I'm really impressed by your vast knowledge of 4x4. Im interested in Toyota fj cruiser review . I don't know what you have to say about  the different versions:
The six speed manual shift ( I was told it's full time 4x4)
The automatic with manual auxiliary
The automatic with electronic button auxiliary .
Which one is best among them?
Thank you

Tonye-t:
your own church. . .my own church. . .his own church. . .her own church. . .their own church. . .and the division continues and the faith suffers from internal perpetriators who knows the sheep will rather choose to remain silent and unpertubed. Joe my good brother the quest remains that : DO YOU THINK THE MOVEMENT THAT BELIEVES IN THE WORKS OF THE HOLY SPIRIT WILL MAINTAIN ITS ESSENCE COME 10YRS from NOW?

Yes of course. The church is waxing stronger,knowledge of God is increasing. Jesus is not a failure.

[/quote]

Tonye-t:
See where we Christians always make a mess of ourselves?. . .where did i say i gave a pastor friend a punch across his face?. . .lol  . . . pls quote it. .!

I don't remember the thread , if you feel I didn't represent it well, pls paste it here for us. Even though it's not an issue ,you yourself said the man was fake. And I'm not judging you for it. I only gave an illustration.

[quote author=Tonye-t link=topic=564033.msg7310239#msg7310239 date=1292000800]
Still not answered the question. . .should magni-edifices be justified at the expense of the little livehood of the faithfuls. Especially when we both know that some means of how these MOGs get these monies are the people are unscriptural?. . .o Agbaje lets be rational atleast for once.

Do people give to God and lack?. Or they give to God and are blessed. Let's judge according to truth.

The desire for large congregations can easily lead to compromising biblical standards of doctrine and practice.  "Woe to them that are at ease in Zion," the prophet warned (Amos 6:1).

but your church is large

Enigma:
I have considered that possibility indeed; but first, I'm interested to see if he agrees that ushers, "armour bearers", Choir members,
'worship leaders', 'intercessors', church counsellors etc etc etc are "ministers".

Yes they are ministers.

2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new

In John 14:2-3 Jesus said
“In my Father’s house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.”

Many misinterpret this portion of Scripture to mean that when someone gives his life to Christ, God starts building a mansion for him (or her) in heaven. That’s not true. In the verse above, Jesus wasn’t talking about heaven. He was referring to our place in Christ.

There’re no mansions being built in heaven for anybody. The Bible says

all the works in heaven and in the earth were finished from the foundations of the world (Hebrews 4:3).

The angels aren’t building structures in heaven. Heaven is a beautiful place, and it’s already been built. The place Jesus went to prepare for us is our place in the right hand of the Father, where we now sit with Him in the heavenly realms, far above all principalities and powers. That place is also called Christ.

So, not only is Christ a Person, He’s also a place. That’s what the Apostle Paul alludes to in our opening scripture. We are in Christ.

We’ve been made to sit together with Him in heavenly places (Ephesians 2:6);

that the place Jesus went to prepare for us and we’re there now. You came into Christ when you were born again; it’s a heavenly realm called Zion, the city of the living God. That’s the city of our habitation:

Hebrews 12:22
“But ye are come unto mount Zion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels”

In Christ there’s no sin, sickness, disease, failure, poverty, defeat, weakness or death; all you have is health, joy peace, success, strength, prosperity, beauty and life forevermore! That’s your place of inheritance; it’s the place of divine authority and power, where you reign and rule over satan and the cohorts of darkness.

So when you say “I’m in Christ,” you ought to understand the import of that statement, for it means that’s where you live; your address is Christ! Therefore, view the world from there.

You can make this declaration in Prayer:
Dear Father, I thank you, in the Name of Jesus, for raising me up and making me to sit together in heavenly places in Christ! Not only does Christ live in me, I’m in Christ, and I function from the heavenly realms of glory, as the heavenly man in Christ. Hallelujah

Further Study
2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

@Donnie

donnie:
Thank you Holy Spirit for the love of God that you shed abroad in our hearts.
May God bless you Joeagbaje

I trust you have great testimonies too Donnie. The fire of the gospel is burning all over the world

mabell:
so what is kunle and nuclearboy stress?

This is their stress. They have been peddling lies and falsehood on this forum. Running rampage. So when I through the light of the Word of God expose their ignorance. They leave the topic of discussions in anger and come after me. It becomes a personality fight. Our moderators are not really helping. If you really observe, you'll see that when I make a post that puts them in a corner , they leave bible aside and come after my personality. Shouting "he is a pastor" he has no job"  "he is fighting for his daily bread through oyaks opaks" etc. Just to discredit my person.  "Go and get a job" they say.

They try to stir sentiments against my posts. But it Is futile. People are seeing the truth. Since last year I said I am an artist, I make good money and I put my money into the gospel. I also said if I have a pastoral responsibility or any other spiritual responsibility, glory to God. There is pastoral call on everyone in CEC by the way. Every member is a potential pastor. We have oil workers , engineers and other professioners having different pastoral responsibility. It's only their opportunity to serve the master. They are all great givers. We live by our givings.

I tell these guys Judge my posts by scripture. It is losers and weaklings that does those things they do.

@Mabel,

I'm not just an artist . I am a veeery very good artist. The best as a matter of fact. I am multi talented . I illustrate books. I am a sculptor. Even though i major in painting. Presently , i am studying animation. One of my lecturers in animation who is a member on NL in the Graphics/ I.T.section once came to religious section to defend me I had to caution him on phone. Its unnecessary .

If you see my works , they speak for themselves. I thought you saw my works in my interview with Jesoul.The interview landed me into numerous big jobs . Below is a link to publications of some  exhibitions last year at national threatre  And this year. 

http://www.thenetng.com/2009/11/22/treasures-from-benin/

Apart from numerous exhibitions. In and out of the country. I am a member of the SNA  since 2003 when we had an exhibition at the War Museum Umuahia 2003.  I recently joined Red bubble,A website where I sell prints of my works in different parts of the world. With other great artist, where they sell our works reprint for postcards ,stamps etc. .Here is the link to my page there  bellow .  

http://www.redbubble.com/people/joeagbaje

You can still click additional  link below .

http://www.compassnewspaper.com/NG/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=35149:from-uniben-art-school-treasures-of-benins-varied-traits&catid=54:arts&Itemid=694

http://www.compassnewspaper.com/NG/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=69604:uniben-artists-takes-the-podium-in-treasures-of-benin&catid=54:arts&Itemid=694

@Mabel

mabell:
@joagbaje, nuclearboy says you not an artist and that you are lying that you are one,
What do you have to say?

I don't have an answer for him." We don't negotiate with terrorist" People without personality look for who to vent their frustrations on. I have never lied on the forum. All my testimonies are true.

Present state but i'm yet to find other pictures

Present state but i'm yet to find the other pictures

This was the state i found him

@Mabel

mabell:
@joeagbaje,
kunlesohob is douting your testimony
why don't you put the scriptures to cure the doubting thomas

Scriptures ké ? Or you meant pictures ? Well let me see. I accidentally deleted some of them. I have the one I took of him by the road side only, but the the other in between while he was being carried and while he was strapped to bed, haven't found yet. I'm still checking

KunleOshob:
@joagbaje
I am not impressed by your so called testmony as it is a well known fact that CE pastors and members are trained and skilled in the art of false teachings and testimonies.

I've never lied on this forum , and I'm not about to. If you don't believe, it doesn't matter. I dont need your approval or testimony of me.

John 5:34
34 But I receive not testimony from man. . . 

@Mabel,
It's amazing that those who are busy insulting and attacking in the name of advocating for the poor are not really helping anybody. Not even the poor. Ironically it is the people that are being attacked and insulted that are really helping the poor. 

Pastor chris has taught us the love message. I remember couple of months ago, how while I was driving , I saw a body by the road side. The spirit of God told me to stop, I reversed, came down and saw the body badly burnt. I thought it was a corpse. Until I said "hello" the person's lips moved slightly. I called up some people. I realised the body had been lying there for 4 days. I finally traced the village and sent messages to the relatives , they said he has mental challenge they didn't show up. But God had told me to stop. I got people to help me carry him into the back of my car. I took his picture and took him to hospital.I  Paid the necessary money and got someone paid to attend to him while the doctors and nurses were doing their job on him.
 
Some of his family members finally came and complained in the hospital. "na so e dey do. E go waka commot for house, na madness dey worry am".  To my surprise the hospital decided not to admit him again, saying if there's mental case involved they can't keep him there ,that They would just treat and bandage his burnt body and discharge him. I began to pray knowing that I heard from God.

 Finally A doctor gentle man later came that evening before the discharge and apologised. He admitted him and got some psychiatric people to attend to him.Few days later when I visited , he was strapped to the bed with ropes,I prayed for him and rebuke the spirit of insanity and madness. I knew he was healed. Because God spoke to me about this case. Two weeks after he was leading prayers in the hospital ward.

I later got to know that he was a very brilliant guy in school until they jazzed him with juju. His elder brother came to see me recently thanking me, and telling me all these.The boy would have died. But he was born to be a star. He is out of the hospital now. And he is doing fine. His studying the bible now. His ready for his future. This is what pastor chris is teaching us to do. If the man of God had not taught me how to hear from God I would have passed by.  I see him lay hands on dangerous contagious cases. That is love. It doesn't matter the accusations . I can't deny my personal experience as a fruit of this man's teaching. He had told us "if you start casting out devils and healing the sick" Satan will orchestrate demonic lies against you"  It was thesame devils in the days of Jesus .

    John 7:12 (NLT)
12 There was a lot of discussion about him among the crowds. Some said,"He's a wonderful man,"while others said,"No, he's duping the public."
   

Enigma:
Indeed my questions  still remain for all the MOG apologists:
1. Is every ordained pastor a man of God?

2. Is any other "minister" in the church a man of God?

Every minister called of God is a man of God.

Hebrews 5:4
4 And no man taketh this honour unto himself, but he that is called of God, as[ was] Aaron.

@Vivian SA,
You misunderstood me. I didn't say petres decamped from christ . My point is , you can't expect any positive thing to come out of the mouth of a disloyal person. I cited an instant where some people decamped from christ because they couldn't stomach his teaching, they stopped following Jesus . I said those who left jesus will go about spreading negative things about him definately but we know that Jesus was righteous. Thesame way when a man like petres spread bad things about a church he left . The point is no matter how good you are , some will still leave you, some will still say terrible things about you. If it happened to Jesus , it will surelly happen to any good minister. So we don't give importance to such. If he felt his pastor did wrong , he should have reported it. Or confronted the matter for an explanation.

@jesoul
 

I am very interested in what CEC members, especially Joagbaje have to say about Petres account here. Thanks in advance.

What else do you expect from a disloyal person? . The disciples who decamped from following Jesus because his teaching was too hard will paint him in bad light. So it's not a big deal. Look at the story in John 6. Below

John 6:65-66
65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father. 66 From that[ time] many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.

Obviously those who decamped from Jesus here will not say nice things about him. So Petres may write all those rubbish. Let's leave it for God. Pastor chris never ask us to raise money for his birthday. We deemed it scriptural to use such opportunity to appreciate him. He never tongue lash anybody that's a lie. Pastor chris is a gentleman of God that is so appreciative of everything. Even if it's slippers shoe. He has a heart of gratitude and we learn from him. A local leader or pastor may probably overzealously say it is by force . I don't know, maybe, But that's against what pastor teaches.  

These kinds of manipulative tactics aimed at getting people to "give" . . .  I was at a service once, the pastor asked for offering, for people to bring it one by one to the stage, he had the audacity and shamelessness to demand he did not want any offering less than $100. I almost went up there with $1, just to see what he would do/say.

Some ministers may do things like that to help the members break off poverty and lack mentality .  The purpose was not to enrich the minister. There have been time my wife would challenge my giving . I listen to her in that area . She is a great giver. I love it when my faith is challenged. And I get inspired by givers. Because they always have testimonies . But if your said pastor did it to enrich his pocket , he will be in the danger of God judgement but it is not our judgement . We may be wrong and it will be a sin. 

Romans 14:4
4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

ROSSIKE:
Joagbaje said:. . . . .

So what sayeth thou? . .
You only quoted joagbaje what's your take, what's your contribution?

@InesQor

InesQor:
On a serious note, we both have foundations in this (permit me to call it what I call it nowadays) recent move of fast-food Christianity.

This is what the Lord of Truth says about Truth
I haven't found all the truth yet, but these are very good questions you have begun to ask as well. May you find, Amen.

I'm not trying to be insultive o, but I think you are yet to find a foundation. Why did you get all these anger and abuse of yours from? And you seem to be very proud of it. The fruit of the spirit is love.

And what kind of Christianity do you have now?

Jesus would have been born in a hotel if not for the fact that it was full. 

Luke 2:7
7 and she gave birth to her firstborn, a son. She wrapped him in cloths and placed him in a manger, because there was no room for them in the inn. 

it is not the venue that makes a church but the people . If a church holds in a bar after the days business, it seizes to be a bar but a holy ground for the period of the church service.

@tonye-T

Tonye-t:
Issues raised are the ones that proves prevalent amongst the Pentecostal movement movement you and I both believe in.

I don't belong to Pentecostal movement. But I believe in the holy spirits and his manifestations.

Quote from: Joagbaje on Yesterday at 07:16:45 AM
There is nothing wrong in reverence and respect for ministers of God. It is purely scriptural. The bible say to "ESTEEM THEM HIGHLY FOR THEIR WORK SAKE"

Brother I quite agree with you there as i had that scriptures (1Thess. 5:13) in mind while making my assertion. Recall in my stance i didnt say they should not be esteemed highly, but what becomes of the fate of their institutions at their demise? You and I know that alot of assistances within our belief-system today are chosen on the ground that they share common interest in the lucre and not on the welfare of the faithfuls. true or false?[color]

What forms your opinion on this? Are you talking about your own church or another church? As far as am concerned , You Should know more about your church than the system of another. If you're talking about your own church system, your assertion is still subject to be judged by the Word of God.

But if you're dealing with other churches or another church, you may not have the right to judge that because you don't know their system or Gods instruction to them.you can only observe from outside. And assume whatever.

[color=#000099]If true, so what then happens when these institutions are left on the hands of these greedy men. [/b]My stance exactly! bearing in mind the large calvary their institutions command amongst the faithfuls in Nigeria and the world at large today.

What make them greedy, I would love us to be specific in issues like this. Don't just say "POLICE MEN ARE CORRUPT". Which police man are you dealing with and what did he do?. Let us analyse such detail in the light of the scriptures. So that we don't put ourselves in the danger of judgement of God.

You once said you gave a pastor friend "punch" across his face. And you detailed the circumstances. So you should be precise here too.  

Quote from: [b]Joagbaje on Yesterday at 07:16:45 AM
But those things you listed as flaws in the church is a little shocking. It is not a flaw to build a decent place of worship For God. God himself demanded the use of Gold and other things for his place of worship. It is a honour to the God we serve.


At the expense of the little livelihood of the faithfuls?

When people give to God ,are they at a disadvantage? Or they are blessed?What type of building do you recommend for the place of worship. And how do you rate Moses tabernacle of Moses and the temple of solomon. When God himself designed a structure with precious material. Should churches look like juju shrines ?  [quote][/quote]

@mabell

mabell:
@Kunleoshob,
You have being really misinformed,
Are you aware that the president of Ghana got healed at the Healing School in South Africa.

I heard the testimony myself at ippc. From the delegates from Ghana .  And the president has also declare  pastor chris's book " RECREATING YOUR WORLD" as a textbook for every secondary school student. to be in every secondary school.
I didn't hear the first hand report during ippc because I was involved with technicals. But I got it firsthand hearing from the vice president of ghana himself in his congratulatory message to pastor chris for his birthday.