₦airaland Forum

WinsomeX:
What is more is that what you are doing has no basis in the bible. No one taught anyone how yo be born again or how to speak in tongues in the bible. God's servant preached his word and the Holy Spirit worked on men supernaturally.

We never said we teach people how to speak in tongues . That can not be taught . You teach people about necessity of receiving the Holy Spirit . But You teach people way of salvation , and how to be saved .

Acts 18:26
And he began to speak boldly in the synagogue: whom when Aquila and Priscilla had heard, they took him unto them, and expounded unto him the way of God more perfectly.

Taking people to a corner and asking them to repeat gibberish after you is nonsensical.

I agree. We don't teach such . It's the spirit that gives utterance . We teach the necessity of the INFILLING, how to RECIEVE the INFILLING which is by faith just as you RECIEVE salvation by faith and we lay hands .

[quote author=SirJohn post=32516156]So you're not ashamed to still show your face here right?[/quote ]

Ashamed of what? These nothing to hide .

You are the one who is dishonest,

What's my dishonesty pls ?

You already admitted that you made a mistake

I didn't make a mistake . Among numerous testimonies of great miracles . A guy I never knew came testifies he too was healed of HIV . I editors brought out a video of "while he was being prayed for , I saw slight difference in the appearance but I assumed it was due to his sickness . But just to be sure . I asked for his numbers asked him what he was wearing while being prayed for . And also sent a link to him to watch the video and he confirmed he watched the video and he was the person being prayed for . What more evidence do I need . The horse has spoken. That's enough for me. But because I wanted to post this online ,I asked for his medical report and he said he didn't collect it. And I said " pls go and collect them ,because I want to post your testimony online . He said he would get it in the week. And I assume he did that. I posted my chat with him . So if there was a mistake . It's from the guy who said he was the one in the video without watching the video.

and that this was Satan's attack on your ministry

Satan can set any one up. Especially if you cast out demons a lot , which I do . So satanic set up happens a lot. But a honest man has nothing to fear. Everything Jeff said in the testimony suits what transpired between me and the other guy Perfectly .

. If you don't mind, please tell the world how I am dishonest.

You're more concerned about rubbishing joagbaje than finding out truth, you've been eager to go online to do your rubbish as usual . And I told you "be patient" The bottom of the Jeff matter is as important to me as well . Because if Jeff didn't get healed ,I can't phantom how on earth someone will climb the altar of God to testify a lie. What would be his gain? I'm curious to know . I'm willing to spend any amount , chatter a car get him hotel rooms and give him money for his trips if there need be to get to the bottom . But you kept pressing to go online . And also rubbishing me before the guy . You don't know how far I'm willing to go. It's not about clearing my name it's about . Asking Jeff his motives if it's true he didn't get healed. And I was cooperative with you. We even got the first medical paper from the hospital without Jeff knowledge . And planned to carry Jeff to do fresh medical test. You didn't spend a dime . But I lost interest in the matter after I saw the SMS you sent to Jeff that I wanted to use his testimony for glory or something like that. That's the one I saw only God knows what other things you did . Why getting in the way of an investigation , why launching attack at my person. Is it about the 500k? Do you know how much I'm willing to spend on the matter? I thought I was opened enough for you. Only to see the rubbish you're posting on Nairaland . Which is what you're after not the truth .

Please post the link to where I owe you and I will pay up

You claimed God doesn't heal again . And if anyone can present a miracle to you will travel to that place ,investigate ,talk with relatives and Neighbours and you will give 500k and Apologise in newspapers . I shared testimonies of people I prayed and got healed . You said you wanted more serious ones. I told you about a guy with leg ulcer or cancer for two years of treatment in the hospital without cure and when I prayed for him the leg healed up in one week . I mentioned also a lady with blindness who git healed almost instantly I prayed for her. You said you preferred that one. I took me effort to locate someone who gave me her number . Because it happened around 2007 or so . I called her and asked her again about her testimony . She confirmed she is still healed . And I told her I want to share her testimony online and some people may call her ,she should be free to cooperate . She only said I should not bring her to face crown . And I said it's only phone call.
I sent you the number and I was shocked you went on Nairaland claiming she was not blind. That's a big fat lie . I called the lady and she said you lied because she told you the whole testimony . You didn't travel there to as promised to find out , I posted her brother"s number ,who led her by hand to be prayed for . But you're more eager to rubbish as usual . The lady is still seeing perfectly today . 2weeks blindness healed within 15 minutes .

WinsomeX:
This is derailment but I will permit it for the time being.

Joagbaje, when you say you do not owe SirJohn money, are you saying you have paid the money you promised to give him if he could prove your healing claims wrong; or...

You are adding lying to the list of CE misdeeds?

He's not just honest that's all. I've explained my stand . Evidence shows There wasn't any manipulation . And he should have been patient to proper conclusion of investigation . Instead being so much in a hurry to make himself hero as usual. I was the one spending money to carry out his investigation. Yet he's not straight forward . We've gone this way before. That even reminds me he's owing me 500k for that other one

WinsomeX:
But even at that, you yourself agree that the method of teaching people how to speak with tongues is wrong. And you must agree that this practice is very common in your church; it will be wrong of you to fain ignorance of it here.

I pray that you realize one day how wrong your assumption about CEC. Is. Our method of teaching is biblical. Teach people about the necessity of receiving the holyghost and laying hands on them . What more?

Lastly, the distinction BTW speaking and praying in tongues is not true. The bible talks of only one type of tongues, a language that can be understood. This tongues you practice where you just speak or pray with no understanding of what you are saying has no foundation in scriptures. The man you quoted is right after all, despite not being that knowledgeable in scriptures.

That said. I hope you can find time to respond to the real issues raised on the thread. The things that make your church s cult.

The bible talks about tongues of men and tongues of angels, tongues of men are earthly language ,tongues of angels are not. You may call it gibberish if you like. Speaking an earthly language by the spirit is for people as prophecy , not as prayer on to God. But praying in the spirit unto God is not earthly language . Groaning in the spirit may come under this category . It is gibberish to the ear but it's mystery to God.

Romans 8:26-27
-- Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

1 Corinthians 14:2
For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

So there's earthly tongue and unknown tongue.

vooks:
Joagbaje,
Much as you owe SirJohn 500K, I have to agree with you; praying for somebody to receive baptism of the Holy Spirit is not cultish and if it is, then the apostles/disciples were cultish.

Much as I have serious reservations against CEC, I don't think cheap gossip helps its critics

I don't owe sir john .

fonzie2u:
I attended their service as a first timer,after the introduction, we were led to another hall there a brother asked us if we culd speak in tongues,for those who said no,they were led to another brother.

That's bible very scriptural ....read reference below.

Acts 19:2
He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

. . . This brother quoted somewhere in the bible nd said he would teach us how to speak in tongues. . .

TRASH !!!! . No one teaches such things in ce . Speaking in tongues can't be taught . What we can say is rather to teach you on how to RECIEVE the holyspirit . Not how to speak in tongues. Christ embassy is a sound bible teaching ministry . And satan won't stop ,manipulating propangada . To gullible ears

. . .He wanted to place his hand on my head,I refused and walked out.

Even though an ignorant dude is hailing you here but You missed out on what would have helped you because laying on of hands is one of the ways you RECIEVE the holyghost .

Acts 19:6
And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

In as much as I am not a bible scholar, I know this is false teaching( the little knowledge I know is when speaking in tongues there must b an interpreter its a message not a language

You're wrong , speaking in tongue (message) is different from praying in tongues . Message in tongues is for people , praying in tongues is to God, and God doesn't need an interpreter !

It's not only Christ embassy that's a cult . Christianity is a cult.

Hmmm, this thread again.....? Seem naira land is boring so some joagbaje issue is needed around.

@ Gombs Sirjohn is john is just one dishonest guy who love praise of men. My response to this thread explains my true position.

If Jeff claimed he was healed why not let him prove it . Rather john was going behind to polute jeff mind against cooperating with me in the investigation. What's john afraid of.
I will mail my conversation with him to you.

Selling Mesages is not thesame as merchandising the gospel . In the bible days messages of prophets were copied and sold by scribes .

Messages of people like paul were highly circulated in his time . How did peter get Paul's materials ? How did Daniel get Jeremiah books to read? They bought them .

damilolaandrew:
? . . another lovely work Oil on Canvas portrait painting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMSSqLIN1aI

It seem more like pastel pencil work to me in the video .and not oil paint work .

Happy new year all

Merry new year all

[color=Red]Romans 8:30
Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified (.There’re two destinies for every man. [/color]

There’s the natural destiny and there’s the divine destiny. Natural destiny is controlled by such factors as the family in which you were born, your country of birth, the people you’re associated with, the information you’ve received or education, etc. All of these have an impact on your natural destiny.

For example, there’re some who are rich, not by virtue of any achievement of their own, but because of the family to which they were born. That’s their natural destiny.

Natural destiny, however, does not exclude the divine mighty hand of God; He has the generic involvement in the world. The world belongs to Him. But some in the world are His creatures, while some others are His children. He has a good will for all His creatures—everyone in the world—but more specifically, He has a divine destiny for His children—everyone who’s born again.

The divine destiny for any man only begins when he’s born again. That’s when God becomes your Father and starts leading you. That’s when He sends His Holy Spirit to live in you and to guide you. The Holy Spirit then takes residence in the quarters of your heart.

You’re thus different from the world. Like Jesus said in

[color=Red]John 15:19
…I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.[/color]

Everyone that’s born again is not of this world. You’ve been chosen out of this world by Jesus. He’s got His mark on you.

How can you tell whether a man is fulfilling natural destiny or fulfilling divine destiny? It's simple: who gets the glory in his life? In the things he does, who gets to be honoured? Who receives the praise? Whose power is behind what he does? For whom does he live? If all the answers turn out to be the Lord, then that's divine destiny, according to the Bible.

Acts 8:7-8
For unclean spirits, crying with loud voice, came out of many that were possessed with them: and many taken with palsies, and that were lame, were healed. And there was great joy in that city

Our opening text is an account of events in Samaria when Philip, the evangelist, preached Christ in the city. The power of God’s Word prevailed mightily, such that many were healed and set free from demons. The result was that the city erupted in joy. The Bible specifically records that there was great joy in that city.

How do you know that someone is joyful? Through their expressions! Joy has expressions. Laughter is an expression of joy. Praising God—being exultant and exuberant with praise to Him—is an expression of joy. Singing songs of praise in thanksgiving is an expression of joy. The Bible says, “Is any among you afflicted? let him pray. Is any merry? let him sing psalms” (James 5:13).Express your joy in the Lord.

Joy is one of the fruits of the recreated human spirit (Galatians 5:22); therefore, your joy as a child of God should be independent of circumstances. It shouldn’t be based on what's happening to you or around you; it shouldn't have anything to do with what others say or do to you. You can be joyful in the midst of trouble.

Paul and Silas were cast into prison, persecuted for preaching the Gospel. Nevertheless,

Acts 16:25
“At midnight,” (it doesn't get darker than it gets at midnight), they prayed and sang praises to God, and the other prisoners heard them

They expressed their joy, and the result was a supernatural jail break. God shook up the prison, broke their bands and flung the gates open. They remained joyful in adversity, and gave expression to their joy.

You must learn to give expression to your joy. Always be cheerful and exuberant with praise, knowing that it takes a joyful and happy person to make others joyful and happy. If you're not joyful, you can’t effectively preach the Gospel and win others to Christ.

Gombs, I'm sending the screen shot of Jeff affirmation of the video on whatsapp to you now. Kindly post it for all to see

MY FULL RESPONSE

i will summarize . Jeff testifies of being healed of HIV. Actually That's about 2years ago or 3. I asked for his medical records he said he could get it within the week. And I assumed he had. I sought his consent on the testimony being shared online . He consented . I asked for the editing of the video .which was done . And a Clip from from the particular programme which Jeff mentioned. Was presented which actually fit Jeff story and also looked like him to a great extent. Except that the other guy looks very sickly and lean which could also be attributed to the ailment . But to be very sure . The video link was sent to jeff on whatsapp to verify if he watched the video and if he was the one being prayed for And he affirmed , so that clears me of any deliberate manipulation . I can send the screen shot of the whatsapp conversation to Gombs if he could post it for me. Sir john also saw the chat because I posted the screen shot to him also.That's that about the Video.

Then concerning his healing. Noe Somebody may ask why i didn't insist on seeing the medical report.the answer is simple I know beyond doubt that the person I prayed for in that video was healed . So the issue is was it Jeff?. And Jeff confirmed he was. So I had double assurance . The witness of the spirit in me on the day of prayer and Jeff affirmation. My shock came when Jeff's pastor watched the video and said it's not Jeff and he gave the video to Jeff and said Jeff said he's not sure it's him. I gave the development feedback to Sirjohn that they said it's not him. And Sirjohn told me that Jeff had admitted to him before also that he watched the video and that he was the one. Sirjohn even posted the audio of the conversation. And he warned that he doesn't trust Jeff .

On why I was not keen on being the one to present the medical evidence . Firstly Because some people here will claim it's manipulated . I prefer the investigators to talk with the testifier and ask him for proof of his healing . And also because of my previous discussion with Sirjohn. He had ask if I can present any miracle through prayer ,he would travell there to investigate and talk with the Neighbours and relative and medicals . So I left the investigation for Him.

So I gave the challenge. For john to find out if this miracle was staged or a fraud as they claimed. I gave the phone number of the guy with the understanding that he had his papers now. When john told me the guy didn't have them , I called him to ask. He said he is now living in delta. And he is out of job. He didn't even have money to go and get the records. I asked for his account no. I sent 30,000 to him.and later another 10,000. Sirjohn will bear witness that the guy sometimes doesn't pick calls for days . I dealt with john with all transparency . Jeff claimed he got his doctors report from of of the doctors who had been transferred to Owerri. But he said they were robbed on the way and he had to go back and start all over. I agree to still give him even if it's 100,000 . To avoid. Story. Sir John was even warning me . That the brother may be taking me for a ride. While we are still waiting for that . I introduced his pastor to john who knew about the history of his ailment .

Finally I had to get his pastor and his ex Fiancee to go to one of the hospitals to get the record of his first test of HIV positive which was sent to Sirjohn. There were 3 hospitals where he said he had test. They've not been able to get the one for HIV negative. He was to go to owerri again . His pastor finally concluded Jeff should do another test now. And he later called me that Jeff travelled. I've called him and sent message . So I'm waiting for the other reports and feed back. And he finally present them . They should be well Scrutinized for any falsehood. And there need be . Jeff can be compelled to do fresh test. If there's anything else I remember I will re post. That's it for now.

I will give a one time detail explanation in 20 mins. My battery ran out on the other device, thanks for your patience

. . .

I could have forged a document if there any intention to deccieve . My confidence was based on the fact that no normal person will come and testify of a stigmatic decease like HIV when even some who got healed of it don't like people to know they had it. . .

When Jeff came to share his testimony. The first thing I asked for was his medical papers . He said he was asked to come for it. I asked him if he minded I share it online he said he didn't mind . I asked him to get the papers and how soon would it be . He said by weekend or so. I trusted and assumed he would have done that.

I also asked the editors to search for the programme he mentioned where he was prayed for . And the only video clip that agreed with his testimony was that particular insert. After the editing . I tried to get him to watch the video but he was not in town . When I felt the need to post the video . I sent him a link to watch it . And he replied it was him . I sent a screen shot of my Whatssapp conversation with him to Sirjohn . I hope he would be kind enough to show it . I'm using iPhone and can't post the screen shot here. . . .

Sorry I posted but it went off .let me re type in bits

We record several testimonies and healings every week. So a miracle is not a strange occurrence . Probably that gave room for my little carelessness . LEt me explain JEFF case then you can judge if theres any evil intention .. . .

But I want to clearly state that there's no fraud nor fraudulent intention . The video was posted for Gods glory

SO WHAT WENT WRONG. . . .?

Firstly I humbly apologise for any misrepresentation

Can I speak now?

SirJohn:
Mr Jo relax, why are you all worked up because I tried to teach you something you don't know. You put up a video of HIV cure on the internet, a video that lacks the ability to convince even a two year old,

John you're not sincere to yourself just forget it . You don't have the liver to confront truth. That video is more than enough to convince any sincere seeker of truth. If you have the gut as you were boasting , this should be your opportunity. You're one double tongued. Giving new conditions.

I have given a case . I gave his phone number. Ask him yourself . Ask for proof. See the three doctors . If they will put their job on the line for a silly fraudulent testimony. If you can't expose me john you're a . . . . I will hold my peace because you're still a soul I'm interceding for to return from your backsliding . Mudslinging the faith you once knew for vain glory of naira landers. Remember , you will stand before God one day . Kunle won't be there to cheer you up. You will be alone facing the damages you did to lives .

What simple proof do the critics have against him? None. They said the structure wasn't approved but the church provided document it was approved . What else. Going through through the rubbles to confirm the strength of the foundation ? Fine . Have they found the foundation faulty? So let every one keep quiet until evidence prove otherwise. Meanwhile it's amusing that till now there's no official response on the aircraft which flew round that building about 5 times at a strange low altitude before the collapse. If it's a daily routine flight at least someone shook clear the are . If it's on a special mission ,someone should still clear the air. But till now is it not strange no one is claimin responsibility. The FAA is supposed to have details of crafts that are airborne . What's their response? Why are people blaiming tb . He still did the best to provide a lead with little information he has. What has critics and authorities done? . Nothing

36STATES:
I think this news is real fake. That looks like an old photo. Christ is banned in South Africa and Zuma will be commiting a political suicide appearing anywhere near a Nigerian 419 pastor in the present climate.

You're rather the one living with old fake news. President Zuma was in pastor chris programme few days ago. And his wife is a CEC member.

Read it all here. ( with photos). https://www.nairaland.com/1931904/south-africans-vow-sack-christ

Blakjewelry:
yes this is the type of speech I was expecting tb instead he to cast the blame on someone else

It's a speech from a spiritually Matured heart

SirJohn:
And what if the records are not there? your tone lacks some confidence in it. Are you saying you didn't see any of the reports before publishing your Africa Magic home video?
By the way why should I go to the hospitals with him? or are you saying he doesn't have the test results with him?

Don't just sit on your computer typing rubish john .i sense you're afraid .You know this testimony will rubish all the nonsense you've been publishing . I posted the guys number . Why not find out . Why haven't you made an attempt . It's not my duty to run errand for you . If I post medical record here you will call say I forged it so john I challenge you in the name of Jesus whom you're denying . Use your half a million naira to prove me wrong.

Secondly if you a able to prove that this guy wasn't healed of HIV . I will give you half a million. .

This is an open challenge john.

SirJohn:
@Joagbaje,
You must understand that we are not kids, you know it is impossible for any medical center or doctor to give out information about a patient to a complete stranger. why are you asking us to go to the FMC? You came here claiming to have healed a young man of HIV, believe me, if you really did, you wouldn't be the one to come singing your own praises. If one proper HIV cure happens anywhere in the country or anywhere in the world, I tell you, it wont just take a joagbaje on Nairaland to spread the good news.

Jo, the video you shared online only shows a guy claiming he was healed of HIV in your church and then you also showed clips of the actual ministration. If you have to present a video with a claim of such magnitude, then you should have taken time to present relevant details before anyone can really take you serious. The video should not be for public consumption as it lacks the ability to convince even the dumbest fool. I'll advice you take that video off the internet until you are able to do the following:

show us all three test results you claim confirmed the young man HIV+, these results must be clear and should show the name and address of the hospital or lab that issued the result. and it must be stamped or signed.

Show us all three test results as you claim that confirmed him HIV- and they must all comply with the conditions stated above.

Show us a doctors report confirming that so and so condition previously existed but no longer is. This should come from the doctor who first confirmed him HIV+ and that doctor must be willing to talk and answer questions.

That is how you verify a case before making a video and loading it online.
If your video had all this in place including a brief interview session with his doctor, then you can come here and brag but until then, I will not take you serious.

I have also uploaded the video on youtube for the viewing pleasure of anyone who cares to watch:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7b01qsooOYs&feature=youtu.be

Simply call the guy up take a trip as you promised . Go with him to the hospitals the record should be there I suppose.Remember you said you will travel anywhere to verify a case of healing. Why are you changing the conditions. I simply present a case. It's left for you to open my bombom and prove me wrong.

PastorKun: Many of Nigeria's most popular pastors are not the good examples of how Christ and the Holy bible commands Christians to live in this world. Pastor Adeboye was involved few years ago in an illegality of an import duty waiver that directly cheated on Nigerian tax payers and the Government of over $120million in state revenue. . . . .

. . . . And pastor kuns is a glutton and a winebiber. He also has to his title as the" ENEMY OF THE CHURCH OF CHRIST"

IamTitanium: Help me out here Those soldiers killing members of the boko haram sect are killers too.... Is there a place for killers in heaven

The Nigerian law says nit to kill also but the law sentences one to death. If you want a honest answer. It's simple. There's difference between murder and execution. One is a crime the other is justice.