₦airaland Forum

KingEbukasBlog:
Apparently , you have this preconceived idea that consciousness needs a brain . And thus whatever experienced is not real but imagined . But the experiences of the NDE-people refute that . For you to understand a difficult subject like consciousness you have to be open mined . You just dont conclude they are wrong because of your prepossession .

Not at all it was a very simple question . . . I never discarded NDEs as imagination i only pointed out that the only way humans can 'assume' something they never did is through 'imaginations'.

But the NDEs are not imaginations rather are experiences had without the brain but recollected with the brain..how so?

"If NDEs are independent of the brain, how then can the brain recall such experience when it never had it?"

It is blatantly unlikely to recall what you never had... So the question is "how is it that the brain is now needed to recall NDEs when the brain was never needed to experience it..

Isn't that reason for researches ? If progress is to be made in this research , then the researchers should be open to possibilities and that include the immaterial realm .

Immaterial realm that somehow is recalled by the 'material brain' that never experienced it?

there in lies the problem.. You sighted NDE to use as basis to infer consciousness does not need a brain but certainly that leaves a ton of problems begging.

Cus if this consciousness doesn't need the brain then there is no way the material brain can ever playback the experiences of this independent consciousness that have gone past it's material frequency.

But if the 'brain' can do this then it still implies this consciousness also is dependent and related to the material brain

I think , there has to be a door or link that leads or connects to another realm .

And by 'One' you mean a formless needless conscious mind of nothingness?

We keep an Open mind by the way to what we may find but for now humanity has never been a able to break the co-relationship between our general idea of consciousness and the brain.

itsik:
Lwkmd here people.
I will take it one at a time. Will just translate one now. Others will follow soon lets keep trying.


6. He learnt science and technology in the great university of Egypt.
Trans: ó muru nka na uzu na nnukwu mahadum ndi Egypt.


Thats it gor now.
Lets keep trying on the other ones.
NB: I see you @johnydon22 and @phut una try sha but check am well. Some are still not well interpreted.

Aaaaaaaaaahn faints how could i have missed that naaa.. Nnam ikuzigorom nke a ozo taa.

Kita mhuru ya kam chetara ya ozo.. chai..

KingEbukasBlog:
The root of plants operate as a neural network . Plants are indeed conscious . Brain activities that give rise to consciousness can be replicated in by the plants' neural network . We could have reached that inference but[b] the brain is inactive during experiences by people during NDEs [/b] . So consciousness does not need a brain

How so is it independent of the brain when the brain is needed to recollect the experience? How can the brain recollect that which it never experienced?

There is only one way we have ever been able to achieve that and it is not recollection rather Imagination

So how can NDEs recollect an experience they had without the brain with the brain? (More like the brain giving what it doesn't have) that is most unlikely.

Can you recollect us for an experience you never had?

KingEbukasBlog:
As a thinker you have discerned that it is indeed a mirage and you know what a mirage is . You also could identify that you experienced a hallucination and so its not real . But mind you the conclusion I made from Descartes' Cogito ergo sum is tentative.

cc : Johnydon22

Lol no this doesn't answer his question. Not everyone that perceives a mirage recognizes it to be one.

This was the question

" So whatever we perceive or that we think we are perceiving is real?... so if I
perceive a small pool of water on the road ahead( Mirage) then it means
that there is actually a pool water there?...so whatever I perceive while
hallucinating exists?"

It is simply evidential that our perception is not the hallmark to determine reality since our neurological interactions also include misfiring and linear interpretations, even placebos that may seem so real to our perception but yet are not.

KingEbukasBlog:
The quantum double slit experiment

Show us how this shows Consciousness produces matter

You are missing the point . The experience was made when the brain was inactive . Recollections are just drawn from the experience .

How can the brain recollect what it didn't experience in the first place? That is like a memory card playing a song that was never downloaded into it.

Sorely unlikely.. So how so is it independent of the brain when it still needs the brain for recollecting that which supposedly is independent of it?

KingEbukasBlog:
Consciousness is not a product of matter . Consciousnesses creates realities and the physical existence of matter is just one them .

How so, teach us how consciousness creates matter and reality

(Same way i showed Ayomikun how awareness is directly dependent on matter)

the realities your consciousness experiences are not dependent on your consciousness to be, so realities are not a child of consciousness but what a mind interprets it's experiences to be.

whether there is a mind or not does not preclude 'things' that are from being, the perception of these things only are important to the deduction of reality to the individual mind that perceives them ..

When people experience NDEs the brain is inactive . So how come they experience without their brain ?

Clinical death is a temporality shut down which resumes afterwards, thus recollections are made and this is an act of the brain and the brain can only give out what it has.

plaetton:
I Say consciouness is generated by electrical activity, interactive information.
My opinion opinion is that once consciouness is generated by the brain, during the 5th month of pregnancy, then quantum mechanical properties of the brain kick in to elevate consciouness into a whole new realm, where, at times it seems independent, capable of operating beyond its locality.

We know that at the quantum level, a photon/electron operates beyond the simple laws of classical physics by expanding beyond its locality.

We should try to imagine how this occurs at the neural cellular level, and how it would radically affect the interactive information that the neural networks transmit and recieve, and hence, our conscious experiences.

All these isolated mysterious phenomena of consciouness only show the complexity of neural interactions, and reminding us that we still have a long long way to go.

The anecdotes in Deepsight's video link do not show proof positive what consciouness is, from whence it comes, or precise ways that it operates.

Humans have been perturbed by the issue of consciousness not just in the general simplest way of being Aware but this time as in the case of higher developed organisms include thought, emotions etc.

Though immense study is still being carried out on it, Human consciousness has never been unrelated to the brain.

Even though humans are yet to understand the very nature of human weird consciousness the immense relationship with the brain is inseparable.

In as much as humans are still a long way in explaining consciousness in totality many breakthroughs has been reached in that field of study as the part of the brain directly responsible for the control of consciousness has been determined.

The part of the brain that controls consciousness is the frontal lobe. Other
activities controlled by the frontal lobe include problem solving, decision
making, emotions and control of purposeful behaviors.

http://www.ask.com/science/part-brain-controls-consciousness-61bdc0f2234e1a6c

People who suffer brain loss of this part of the brain tend to become more like vegetables, one may loose majority of the brain and remain ever conscious and vibrant but once it involves this part their consciousness is greatly dwindled to a minute state.

Personally to me the brain is not totally the sum of our conscious self but rather the totality of our being directly is the sum of our consciousness.

Every inch of neuroreceptive and chemical, electrical and biological firings and connections all in unity with the centrality of our perception (Brain) sums up the whole of our consciousness.

I think in recent years ahead more breakthroughs in that neurological branch of study will paint clearer pictures.

According to Christof Koch, who is probably the leading researcher in
consciousness, - it's probably coalitions of synchronous neurons that fire
so actively that they "win out" and can then manage to occupy working
memory in the prefrontal cortex (through neuron fibers that stretch from the
region to the prefrontal cortex [although I'm still trying to figure out whether
they're directly connected to the prefrontal cortex or if they have to go
through the basal ganglia first

KingEbukasBlog:
Thought processes require consciousness . Processing information picked from our environment shows that we are aware of our surroundings - to cover your nose when your perceive an obnoxious smell , to run for cover when you hear gun shots , the smile back at a pretty girl , to be left transfixed or mesmerized by art . We are certain of our existence because we can experience our surroundings - we are real . Its more of a philosophical proof our existence . 'I am' - a fact of existence God - I am that I am .

And this perhaps spreads out to understanding that whatever we perceive in our surroundings too is real because we are certain of our existence as people who can think . But if it directly implies that everything that is , thinks no .

And human consciousness is that ability to process information picked from our surroundings? (awareness)

Our Perception is not a hallmark to determine what is real so the bolded does not hold sway

Toyolad:
"Light not only activates phototropins , but
also affects the level of their expression"

Does this not indicate that this matter ( Phototropins) is activated by something too? ....I hope this doesnt lead to infinite regress...#Following by the way#

Means that Phototropins respond to the stimuli (light) to produce awareness.. Just exactly same way without light there is no eye sight and light also affects the level of the eye's expression

CoolUsername:
At least to process and interprete stimuli.

Says it all about consciousness

itsik:
Let us start with igbo. Am a full igbo man. And let us make this fun and entertaining.
I wanna start with this.

100% supported..

Who can interpret these sentences or convert them to perfect igbo for me.

Let me try

1. I miss you.

Anya gi na eme m

2. Its a penalty shootout,

Football and it's languages are alien to us and so our traditional vocabularies do not encompass such premises.

'Ugwo or Opipia' can be used as Igbo words for 'penalty' as regard little repercussions.

3. He came out through the window,

Osi na mpio puta

4. Its 5.30pm

Okuola iri ato gafee elekere ise

5. There is a rainbow in the sky

Egwugwu no na Igwe

6. He learnt science and technology in the great university of Egypt.

Oguru odinani na uzu na nnukwu mahadum dina Egypt

7. I saw a hyena today.

Afurum nkita ohia taa

i.e: there may be Igbo words for every type of animal but some can also be generally referred

I will bring more of I remember them. Feel free to add urs.
And guests who are none igbo why not use this opportunity to learn one or two or ask any question concerning things in igbo language.
Thanks

Daalu nwa oma igbo mji eme onu

Ayomikun37:
Hmmm... You scored a bull's eye... I think you'll be the one to give me the answer I seek... So sir, what do you think about THOUGHTS? Could they be dependent on matter too?

Here the first question is "What is a thought?"

IAmTobore:
The bible stated that they participated in all sort of evil deeds, all sort of crimes.

This is not only absurd but simply idiotic i am sorry to say.

what sort of evil deeds and sorts of crime would a 5 year old commit even a 10 year old, please give us an example.

You should let the year numbering end at number 3. Because even a 4 year old child already has the ability of personal thought. So from 4 years upwards are bound to follow instructions, i.e they follow their parents instructions.

And a 4year old that is not even capable of making their own decision but are dependent on the instructions of immediate authority is guilty of a crime deserving of death?

I have never seen a demeaning show of human immorality, i wonder how you could be defending such gross abhorrence with all alacrity

Now from years 1 to 3. They dnt have their own insticts yet. Now tell how they will survive without parental care. So even if they were spared, they were still going to die. I would appreciate more questions.

First you condemn children of being guilty of a fictitious crime then this next defence is being pulled out.

It is disturbing what length people can go to defend such cruel barbarism to the extent of accusing little children of crimes deserving of death.

I am wowed and surprised how someone can keep a straight face while rubbishing the very idea of human moral position.

What iniquity exactly will a child of 1 month be guilty of that it deserves a
cruel death?
what iniquity is a child of 5years guilty of or even 10? what corruption can
the mind of a child conceive let alone execute that you are sheepishly trying
to justify infanticide?

And we are back still to the question If children of 1 -3 as you put them are the only ones incapable of crimes, then doesn't it hold sway that their number stretches up to millions?

Wasn't 10 innocent people the required criteria for the city's pardon, here we have millions

Doesn't the children count..

I am greatly disturbed at this show of sheepish attempt to justify gross infanticide ... I can rightly say these religious belief diminishes the worth of humanity to the religious mind and instills a disturbing stoic clutch of siding barbarism to uphold nonsensical beliefs

Ayomikun37:
Yeah, they are...

so can one rightly say, Plants photoreceptiveness (awareness or consciousness) are dependent on Matter, Phototropins?

Can one rightly say this Photoreceptiveness (consciousness) is a product of Matter (Phototropins)?

Ayomikun37:
Photoreceptor proteins called phototropins, I think...

Good and are Phototropins Matter?

IAmTobore:
I appreciate your efforts. Thanks for the time. It was my mistake.

The children also partook in the evil deeds and that is why the wrath of GOD fell on them all.

Hence if your kids commited the crime with you, they are going down with you.

If there is any other hole that find, do not hesitate to reveal it!

Please tell me what sort of crime a child of 1year 2,3,4,5,6,7,8... would partake in committing?

Please give me one example

IAmTobore:
What makes you come up with the conclusion that the children were innocent? Were you there with them? I follow the bible's account, and am not cooking up stories.

The bible states that they were all corrupt (both young & old).

So now, i want you to show me a BOOK that states that the kids were innocent!

So if the bible says a child of 1 month is corrupt then automatically the child is, if the bible says a child of 5years is corrupt and deserving of a cruel death then the child is?

That shows someone who has no independent mind but has a very simple one way mindset roped around the dictates of an ancient book of jewish descent.. It is shallow and disturbing.

What iniquity exactly will a child of 1 month be guilty of that it deserves a cruel death?

what iniquity is a child of 5years guilty of or even 10? what corruption can the mind of a child conceive let alone execute that you are sheepishly trying to justify infanticide?

I know you may hold the bible dear but i will be explicit here and not mince words the bible is drunk for accusing little children of what nonsensical corruption that they deserve a cruel fate, and you more so for agreeing to such nonsense.

Classical effects of religious beliefs like i have kept saying, Turns humans into mindless simpletons that they can go to any length to glorify absurdity and justify gross abhorrence

Just what you are trying to do here

Ayomikun37:
Perhaps the presence of a "mind" or "will", but at a rather primitive level...

No i mean in a biological sense, what part of a plant is responsible for it's photosensitivity?

E.g in a human you would say eyes which of course can be broken down to billions of neurological connections through the retina to the brain for interpretation..

So what part of a plant is responsible for it's photoreceptiveness?

KingEbukasBlog:
I don't think there were actual thoughts in place before it responds to any change to environment . Its like it is programmed to behave in a particular way as a response to a particular change in its environment . Its tough to say .

No my question was in response to the quote "I think, therefore i am" which you said supposedly perfectly cover the mystery of consciousness.

so i asked "Does this imply that everything that is, think? "

KingEbukasBlog:
Do you think plants have thoughts ? If you consider Rene Descartes' statement “I think, therefore I am” which supposedly perfectly encapsulates the mystery of consciousness then we can without doubt conclude that plants should have thoughts .

Does this imply anything that is, thinks?

Ayomikun37:
Yes sir. Please continue...

Ok so now, what do you think is responsible for this photoreceptiveness cum awareness in a plant

IAmTobore:
Lot and his families were saved through the grace of Abraham. If not, they would have gone down with the city. The bible described the city as totally corrupt and the young ones too are bound to continue the bad deeds rigth from childhood!
They were all stiff-necked!

So Lot was worth more saving than millions of kids right... I am enjoying this but funny enough i am wondering why you are dancing around the question.

Remember the question here is, they were looking for just 10innocent people in the city, the city has millions of innocent children so why werent they spared..

is 10 adults worth more than millions of kids? Doesn't the children count?

VomeSchakleton:
The human society? reallly? well i say the human society is unfair, i say their values are completely misogynistic, i say they are cruel. so are their punishments? why am i wrong for saying that? who gave the small minority of elites to set these rules that sheep like you blindly follow?

Yes you would say they are cruel because they contradict your unfair sadistic treatment of the female folk.

Yes calling misogyny to be misogyny and a societal vice must seem unfair to you because you need to be excused and applauded when you deny women right to vote and drive, basic rights that are enjoyed by every human.

Yes they must be unfair to you because they chastise your cruelty and chauvinistic clutch at a cruel codec against women.

Yes we know which is cruel.

"O you who believe! You are forbidden to inherit women against their will. Nor should you treat them with harshness, that you may take away part of the dowry you have given them - except when they have become guilty of open lewdness. On the contrary live with them on a footing of kindness and equity. If you take a dislike to them, it may be that you dislike something and Allah will bring about through it a great deal of good." [Noble Quran 4:19]

you will never see them quote verses like this will you? ask yourself why? people do bad things, regardless. the atheist who tried to racially cleanse his country, Sweden, was he a Muslim? some just make themselves feel better by trying to use God. heck most people believe Hitler was an atheist.

we are seeing the legacies of Islam in the stoning of women around the world by some perverted monsters in the name of Islam

https://www.secularism.org.uk/images/146936/350x.jpg

[img]https://fellowshipofminds.files./2010/08/stoning.jpg?w=584[/img]

it is blatantly clear and evidential the unjust treatment meted on women in the muslim world, what we are seeing here is the classical reverence of outright barbarism in the name of beliefs

classic, the flat nosed w.anke.r resorts to insults? nonsensical? lol! and let me get this straight, youre supposed to be an atheist? lmao! the whole shabang big bang theory atheist i presume? smh

Hahahahahahahaha and here we go, it's about time assumptions gets into play, if you want a lesson in science you can join me in the right section i will be glad to teach you.

lmao! conformity? me? accept conformity? there is no one opposed to that more than me! in fact my personal message is about conformity! fvck conformity? whose conformity? the hedonistic white man? or the tragic black man? smh

It is the blind conformity to a shabby arab themed book written by some illiterate sun baked pedophile arab man that has led you into a mindless simpleton-like nature of absurd reverence of outright abhorrent charges.

When you were told, "Allah's promise is true and so is the Hour, of which there is no doubt," you said, "We have no idea what the Hour is. We have only been conjecturing. We are by no means certain." (Surat al-Jathiya: 32)

But instead, they deny the Hour; and We have prepared a Searing Blaze for those who deny the Hour. (Surat al-Furqan: 11)

And he quotes the shiity book more, humans reduced into a one minded state that they have no independent thinking but only can boast of a mind that revolves around one medieval fraudulent book.

pitiful

"The life of this world is alluring to those who reject faith, and they scoff at those who believe. But the righteous will be above them on the Day of Resurrection; for God bestows His abundance without measure on whom He will. (The Noble Quran, 2:212)"

Your faith makes nothing true, not even probably true. it only means you believe something whether it is true or not.

Faith is a completely dishonest and archaic position, detrimental to human intellectual growth because it entails insertion of stoic conviction asserted without reason and defended against all reason.

Faith is the only excuse people give to believe something that they have no reason to believe in the first place.

you try so hard to sound smart but you just end up sounding more stup.id than your claims.

Hahahahahahahaha Oh i am flattered

The Prophet, peace be and blessings upon him, explained that women’s mental deficiency is reflected in their weak memory (A woman is overloaded by being a mother or a babysitter or pregnant. All these carriers are around the clock, because of what she is, she is always likely to forget more than a man who is devoted to one career only) , the fact that makes Shari`ah stipulate that a woman’s testimony must be corroborated by another woman. Thus, this injunction does not imply woman’s inferiority to man; rather it has more to do with justice than to gender.

This is a drunk and stupi_d explanation, women's intellect are not any weaker than that of a man both have the potential for great intellectual capabilities.

Your prophet has a very archaic mindset rooted in stark ignorance and Medieval superstition

we have outstanding scientists who contributed immensely to intellectual development of human kind like

Emilie du Chatelet
Maria Curie
Marie Crous

thousands and millions of them across history, your prophet should take his archaic ideology and swallow them.

And for women are rights over men similar to those of men over women." (Quran 2:226)

We can totally see that in the Muslim world. . . they have enough rights to drive, they have enough to vote..

we can totally see that

Youre free to criticise, but your criticism should be constructive, not sound like the words of a molested dweeb who has given up hope.

It is evidential who sounds like a lunatic here...

you say these things, but isnt it true about humans? with or without religion? North Korea is a godless state, so is china? why are these people subdued and maltreated since religion is the problem?

Lmao why not go check out and see ... We have seen the very essence of Islam and it's legacies through out the globe.

China is a dominating economy in the world, North korea is under the leadership of a psychopath and war monger like Muhammed only Muhammed carried out his in the name of God.

We have totally seen the legacies of your religious ideologies they speak so loudly in

-ISIS
-BOKO HARAM
-AL QUEDA
-AL SHABAB
and a thousand others.

lol! johnnydon, i have always suspected you were a fagg.ot! ready to come out of the closet now? i guess there is psycho-phobia and rapophobia and things like that. they were born that way! lol! if it had been treated as the mental illness it is, it would have been cured by now, as i am sure many have...

hahahahahahahahahahaha maybe i could start with you we have seen how Islam treat fellow humans because of their sexual orientation by beheading and throwing them down from a tall building.

All the while hypocritically revering a chronic pedophile who married a kid.. i wonder how what two adults do in the bedroom is a more graver crime than pedophile.

if something is a mental illness then Pedophilia is part of it and uncle Mo was one

exactly, and i am an extremist and a fundamentalist. so are billions of muslims. why wont people refer to the peaceful ones as fundamentalists?

Peaceful ones? same people who defend the abhorrence and revere the outright absurdity in these practical barbarity.

lmao peaceful, quite a funny one..

Something is seriously wrong with the Islamic fundamentals, as even the ones who claim peaceful defend the indefensible lunacy of such absurd beliefs..

There is no difference there..

and that is exactly what youre a victim of. you blindly conform to the laws of others. in this case same people who a hundred years ago, thought you a monkey.

ROTFLMAO Someone who sheepishly revolve their thinking over 1 medieval book written by one perverted arab man.

Break free from such blind conformity to a nonsensical belief, life awaits

And for women are rights over men similar to those of men over women." (Quran 2:226)

We can totally see that in the Muslim world. . . they have enough rights to drive, they have enough to vote..

wtf is wrong with you? so the problem of saudi is now the problem of muslims? are you kidding me? overgeneralization is on of the side effects of a poor critical thinker.

Lol.. the cankerwormous effects of Islamic influence and infringement on women's right is generally observable through out the globe even right here in Nigeria.

the unjust position of the barbaric sharia law is evidential and the treatment of women more like a property that can even be beaten or killed to restore honour is something generally observed in the Islamic world.

i think youre miserable and lonely and you think picking on the intellect of others will make you feel like less of a failure. The idea that women are second class citizens is not of the majority and yes, these misinformed muslims must be educated. again thinking this applies for all muslims is frankly quite stuupid.

E pain am take a chill pill and take a full dose of the truth even though it hurts isn't it

4:176 "Unto the male is the equivalent of the share of
two females."

4:34 "Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath
made the one of them to excel the other, and because
they spend of their property (for the support of
women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in
secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from
whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish
them to beds apart, and scourge them."

see i have always understood why in you are so blatantly against religion. you screw a girl and you think what did i do wrong, you probably being a christian, sitting at home during church and you think what did i do wrong? this world is appealing, and we do everything possible to justify our transgressions, but desire is the epitome of all dangers to ones self.

Oh you are far from it ...

this thread speaks tons

And the picture with the quote on your profile, the one you so proudly lay claim to, is easily the dum.best thing i have read this month. un fiotte!

You are welcome boy, you'd see more soon... Relax and take more chill pill, Hhm you were trying to snoop on my profile and check me out? Naaaah wrong timing bob ...

Anyway seat back relax and enjoy the bitter truth of your lunatic religious ideologies and doctrines.

It is the totality of Abrahamic bullshiit

IAmTobore:
Simple answer; his ways are not our ways! He own us, and no one can question him for what he does!

Have you ever been pissed off before? Remember when USA used NUKES on Japan, weren't there kids that were worth sparing? Although, you have your choice of being an atheist, but that your question just doesn't sits right!

Only he can create a soul, and only he can destroy it because we all belong to him!

And the earlier you realise that, the better for you.

Ok so the Children didn't count? Remember the question here is, they were looking for just 10innocent people in a city where they should be millions of children even more innocent than Lot himself.

So The Children didn't count sir?

KingEbukasBlog:
Plants are conscious my friend .

No be fight ..lol

Ayomikun37:
I will say NO, sir...

But they are Aware of both Light and water in their surroundings, Plants are Photoreceptive ..

If you want to confirm we could do a little experiment, Cover a small pot plant with a carton and make sure no light enters the box from any place, make sure it is pitch black.

then make a small hole just at any side of the carton you want, drop it and leave it for some days or week, check again you will see the plant will lean towards the source of light..

why do you think trees grow upwards .. lol..

So plants are Photoreceptive... should we continue?

These bros has gone full retar_d... the perks of religion, makes sane humans do and belief in their millions what only mad men would do/believe in reality.

Annunaki:
We Annunakis are real

Let us discuss my brother, I am really interested in this Alien visit theories..

I have read many sumerian texts (Gods referred to as Anunnaki) i have always taken these Gods as i see every God humanity has conceived, an anthropomorphical representation of a natural value.

So bro tell me why you think the Alien visitation cum Gods theory is Legit?

Ayomikun37:
I think it is the state of being aware of things external to one's self, having a mind and being aware of other self,-conscious beings. I think this is what is called :having a theory of mind... So I've been wondering how matter could have given rise to a mind that philosophizes, that recognizes a good music and can shed tears when thrilled by one, and so on... I'll appreciate some explanations sir.

slowly, so consciousness is a state of being aware.... Is a plant then conscious?

hahn:
These are the same people who will happpily burn a thief without a fair trial. What else do you expect?

It sends shivers down the spine as these nonsensical beliefs makes simpletons out of intelligent humans that they can easily glorify outright absurdity and try to justify unjustifiable abhorrence