₦airaland Forum

Misogynist2014:
They stated the obvious because they had perfect knowledge, that was exactly what YAHWEH (if indeed I am worthy putting down this holy and righteous NAME) did. Caso cerrado!

Lol they stated the obvious of what is not what is not..

But now this yahweh you claim know what is not already before it is... You now see the difference?

KingEbukasBlog:
for someone who wants to argue science in a religion section , or goes about derailing threads meant to educate christians , or does not have respect for someone else's belief , or think religious people are failures and unintelligent ... says quite a lot about you

This doesnt still imply he claimed any of the above

Or is it that you really find him to be intelligent and dont want to admit it?

mkpakanaodogwu:
Where is this?

Umulumgbe in enugu state

DProDG:
You guys should decide first what you're basing your arguments off, the bible or verified history...#justsaying

She doesn't even know, all her argument is based on what she has been taught all her life. . . if i add the historical authenticity of the bible she would go nuts..

Misogynist2014:
I know they are not foreknowledge, I never meant them to be, but before you can have foreknowledge, you have to have perfect knowledge, that is what the illustration is all about. Now that the persons had perfect knowledge of things, their ability to predict the outcome was a 100%; a walk over.

they didnt predict, they merely stated the obvious. ..

the question still lingers..

[size=20] If god know everything you will do before creating you how is there freewill seeing that the knowledge was already there even before you were created and the foreknowledge can never be wrong [/size] That sir is predestination..

An2elect2:
sorry buddy you are the one that knows nothing. bye.

Do you want me to teach you about the first council of jerusalem? i will gladly do

An2elect2:
have answered you. Before Christ death, they were under the law. After his
death, it was a different story

You see? all your arguments are based on what your christian sect teaches you today. . . Clearly this shows you know nothing about the first council of jerusalem and you are arguing over what you know nothing about.. am done..

Ifeann:
Very very smart comment. But know that once u as a "christain" commits a crime or murder someone etc then u have gone against Christ's teachings and hence should not call yourself a christain. Crime committing "christains" and atheists have one thing in common, their is no command, doctrine, etc that calls for or justifies such wickedness.

They are christians and that is all.. unless you want to say nobody is a christian then cus you wouldn't claim nobody commits sin..

Havent you committed something that was considered a sin before? did that make you not to be a christian?

Morality is not distinctively christian nor muslim nor any ism..Morality is human..

Misogynist2014:
OK. It is like a man who knows Randy Orton is 42 years old, his friend then challenges him to betting his age, can he ever be wrong?

This is not foreknowledge.. Randy orton was already 42 before you find out he was 42 and this cannot be likened to actions.. You could have said the man knew how exactly how many punches Randy would throw in a certain future match.

Misogynist2014:
Also, you have ten cubes numbered from 0 to 9, you misplaced the sixth one, can you ever be wrong if you find a cube and call it 6? All things being equal. It doesn't mean you made it so, it only means you have a perfect knowledge of it.

That you found another cube and call it 6 doesnt mean it is exactly the cube you misplaced.. Am wondering how you want to liken this to foreknoweldge

An2elect2:
i see..."the early christians were just a sect of judaism" where did you get this lie from. I read my bible and i cant see any place where the early christians referred to themselves as judaists ir even implied such.

The foremost practice of Judaism is obedience to the 613 commandments founded on the laws of Moses.

The early christians were people saved by grace alone thruogh faith alone in Christ alone. They knew the imporatancr of the law and knew it cant be kept by men. And thus they preached.

And that was why Paul could say in Galatians 3:11 that no man is justified before God by keeping the law, rather the righteous man lives by faith.

Judaism speaks about acceptance before God through works and obedience to the laws of moses, Christianity says you are justified by faith of Christ.

Two different beliefs.

[b[I don't blame you at all. Your hatred for anything "God" has clouded your sense of reasoning.[/b]

Christians were persecuted by catholics cos they refused to throw the truth away for organised pagan filth. You should research on this one too.

lmao stop the ad hominem in the bolded, thats why i hate discussing with you. you get emotionally personal over nothing.

let me now unravel your ignorance before you with only a question.

What religion did Jesus and his disciples practise?
A. Judaism B. Christianity

[size=20]He knew Adam and eve will eat the fruit even before he created them, how come he was surprised and angry they did?

If adam and eve didnt eat the fruit wouldnt it mean that his foreknowledge of them eating the fruit was wrong which means he was wrong but remember he cannot be wrong therefore they must eat the fruit.
[/size]

Misogynist2014:
I wish you can read my post again and you'll know all but one hasn't been answered. As for the intelligent question in the bracket, you'll definitely have been right but for the fact that we were given freewill, removing the guilt from our Creator, who though knew the result of our creation, never was responsible for our actions.

none of them have been answered.. not even one, you just go on in contradicting circles..

Lol... Now check this out let me paint a clear picture.

[size=20] Before he created you, he already know exactly everything you will do. then knowing this he created you and all your actions already been known before you were even created that can never be wrong must go according to that fore-knowledge. You must do do exactly what he already fore-knew, going contrary to this will mean he was wrong but he cant be wrong... tell me where the freewill is here?[/size]

Misogynist2014:
Because you know exactly what I will do tomorrow, does that mean I lost my will of thought and action? It only means that you have extraordinary talent in dissipating my moves though the probability is very minute among the pools of probabilities.

That i know exactly what you do tomorrow doesnt mean you cannot do otherwise..
Since your are free to do all you want you can do contrary to what i know and it turns out my fore-knowledge was wrong. (mind you i didnt claim to have created you, if i created you and at the same time know exactly what you will do means i also created those actions in the process of creating you)

KingEbukasBlog:
... that Davien is intelligent ,smart , and not ignorant at all

and who even told you that to start with?

Misogynist2014:
It is foreknown, not fore planned.

And this fore-knowledge cannot be wrong right?

Misogynist2014:
I am not talking about freewill but its preservation.

how can they be freewill when all your actions have already been fore-planned?

Misogynist2014:
This argument makes no sense if He doesn't or what exactly have we been discussing?

Exactly what am talking about.. If he knows exactly what you will do (and you cannot do the contrary) is that really freewill?

An2elect2:
what an answer i guess to you the catholic cult is the first "church"

lmao... first the early christians were just a sect of judaism, they kept the law and were all judaic oriented. . it was during paul's missionary journeys that the new found belief were propagated to the gentiles and you know the issue that brought whether gentiles are to also observe the law or not and that was why the first council was held (the council of jerusalem) headed by james, it was decided gentiles are not bound by the law.

The catholic church was formed in 3rd century mainly from the result of the council of nicene (called because of the difference in christian teachings e.g the diety of jesus as god or not)
headed by emperor constantine the christian belief was summarized in the nicene creed
... History of christianity 101

I do not know what you are trying to defend here, whether you call the catholics a cult or not still doesnt make them less christians as you.. during the catholic protestant war that lasted 30 years both sects persecuted and murdered each other.

Christianity ruled the world for 1000 years which is referred to as the dark ages in history..

Misogynist2014:
OK. A better example is a lion who wants to eat a rat and dog at the same time and sees that the dog is after the rat, therefore, he allowed the dog to have its will, he then ran after the dog, pounced on it and ate it. The will of the dog was preserved, so was his.

The dog may decide not to eat the rat (freewill) and the lion is not 100% sure the dog will eat the rat, even if he is sure the dog can still choose not to their by the lion is wrong.
what i want to hear from you is.

[size=20] Does god know what we will do before we do them? [/size] Yes or No?

Kagarko:
GMB nah.

Nigeria is a wise country.

The difference is 7up(Clear)

Nigeria sai change
APC/GMB/PYO

GMB have ruled this country before, and we didnt see any change then. why should we keep recycling old men again in this 21st century.?

aso rock is nobody's property, why cant Nigeria come up with more finer better and younger options than GEJ and GMB.

We live in a secular society now but am afraid voting buhari is like dragging Nigeria backwards to a more archaic era which me have passed already.

I am no fan of either GEJ or GMB, but i honestly do not see how an old man, uneducated as it is can cause any change in this society that is more refined and modern to the one he used to know...

We need younger hands.
The leaders of tomorrow are still busy shouting SAI buhari, Sai Goodluck without knowing they are dashing the grand fathers of yesterday their so called tomorrow which is already here.. why should the same set of people rule us many times over?

Misogynist2014:
Job 28:12 But where shall wisdom be found? and where is the place of understanding?

Lol... You see, you dont even really understand what is it you have been yapping all day long.. You move from asserting that he knows everything and anything anybody will do here

That God knew is the main point, the time frame is inconsequential.

now as our questions progressed you abandoned that idea and adopted that he bends his will to whatever man does..here

Yes! It means God's will bends to our will in a way both are preserved, not
the other way.

which one is it exactly?

Does he know what we will do before we do them, which means he already planned everything.. both your good and bad actions?

or

He doesnt know but bend his his own will to ours. which means he didnt plan anything or fore-knows anything we do but reconciles everything we choose to his own will?

You still don't make any sense at all, just dribble around contradictions thats all..

Misogynist2014:
I (my views and ideas) mean that I bend to your will in a way that both wills are preserved. E.g. If Atiku bends to the will of Buhari, in a way in which Atiku's will of being president in the next four years is preserved.

but this doesnt mean Buhari know what atiku will do before he does it...gerrit it now?

So now i take it you mean god doesn't know what we will do or fore-planned it.. he bends his own will to suite our decisions right?

An2elect2:
by catholics you mean?

christiandom cus am sure the church you are attending now (if its a pentecostal) wasnt in existence then..

An2elect2:
This! but nobody can be fooled, not with all the evil they've perpetrated.

Yeah thats obvious.. such religious crimes have been committed by christianity in the past tho..

Misogynist2014:
Yes! It means God's will bends to our will in a way both are preserved, not the other way.

Ok you are implying that whatever we do automatically becomes god's will which means their is no fore-knowledge of our actions right?

Misogynist2014:
This question has also been answered. ''' What this is saying is that God ordains future events in such a way that our freedom
and the working of secondary causes (e.g., laws of nature) are preserved.
Theologians call this “concurrence.” God’s sovereign will flows concurrently with our
free choices in such a way that our free choices always result in the carrying out of
God’s will (by “free choices” we mean that our choices are not coerced by outside
influences).'''

Do you really understand what the bolded means?

An2elect2:
yes his personal crime. I agree. Why the emphasis on his "belief" then.

If you read my post, i told the guy that the crime had nothing to do with the man's belief... The op is probably a muslim trying hard to pin point a crime he can liken to be perpetrated for the christian belief.. but this one is clearly a no no..

An2elect2:
He is not a christian because he said he is a christian

He said he is a christian alright but his crime was not for or because of Christianity its just his own personal crime..

RikoduoSennin:
The above is Just your OPINION, the OPINION of One man. Since Opinion are not FACTS, I decide to let them go.

nope not my opinion, why not point out the non-facts and we will delve and research about them to see if they are really facts.. We are discussing here no dodging.

RikoduoSennin:
Its pointless to reason with someone who can't figure what our common ground is, not to mention the fact that you don't really get the idea of my post- I say one thing, you say another just to express your own idea.

I only addressed your posts in a more realistic view.. refute any of them if you can.

RikoduoSennin:
When you think you know it all, or know more than others (Full cup) then how would you listen to what others have to tell/teach you or even let them Explain themselves clearly.

I do not claim to know it all and as far as i can recall i have never mentioned to know it all in all my posts..
so address the post, let us delve in more with full research and scrutinization

Misogynist2014:
------
-----
“God, from all eternity, did, by the most wise and holy counsel of his own will, freely,
and unchangeably ordain [size=20]whatsoever[/size] comes to pass; yet so, as thereby neither is God
the author of sin, nor is violence offered to the will of the creatures; nor is the liberty
or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established” ''''

Let me not ask a question first and see if you even grasp what this means..

In your own words can you tell me what this post you posted above means?

ooman:
I dont believe in god, so I have no reason to terrorize.

Ooman you do not believe in god means you cannot terrorize for any god or religion like boko haram, isil and co are doing, or burn people for heresy or witch crafty thats sure..

But the crime as written above is not a religious crime just a personal stuff probably the dude was mentally deranged but it has nothing to do with his christian beliefs..

Nope this is just another normal worldly crime, the man didnt claim he was doing it because people dont believe in his own god or religion.. Crimes are being committed in millions all over the world by christians, muslims, hindhus, other theists even atheists and co but this is just individual crimes and has nothing to do with the religions of the crime perpetrator.

The difference is that Isis, boko haram claim their work is for allah, therefore it is religiously inspired.. So know the difference between a religious inspired crime and a normal day to day crime...