₦airaland Forum

The earlier you understand that the creation and adam and eve account in genesis are just jewish myth on how life and the world began just like every culture and tribe have theirs, they are all mythical fabrications.. then the better..

asadike:
If am alive and you are alive, despite the evils we humans brought upon ourselves, u are still not consumed, then guy, I tell u, indeed there is God.

So tonado, tsunami, hurricanes were brought about by humans..if we start counting the evils attributed to god by the bible, you will see that humans are saints compared to him/her/ it whatever is..

Adiwana:
Dude,if you understand eternal damnation,then you will see that you'll do everytin possible to escape it and God is not a concept.In the bible,once you sin,you will suffer for it.even if you are going to heaven the next minute,you will suffer for it.

Eternal damnation! hahahahaha that is fear speaking you know, When you scare yourself to death with things as abstract as heaven and hell that is mental enslavement. . . God is not a concept then how come different people and cultures have different concept of god.. their are more than 100, 000 gods worshipped by humans, but dont worry yours is the right one

Adiwana:
I believe you are an atheist,so gonna clear things up
1)the bible tells us that when we bring our gift b4 the altar,we should go and make peace with others then come back and present the gift.when you pray to God,he forgives you but requires you to go back and obtain forgiveness from the offended.

Nice one... good to know your bible supports my assertions now start practising it.. .

Adiwana:
2)Every christain preaches about heaven&hell.Christ gave us that responsibility.for eg you know that when you read,you got a first class.will you advise others not to read cos you want to be the only one with a first class?i dont understand your bases for argument here

I dont really think you understand all you read in my post shaaa

The difference between me and these gods is If i see a man sexually molesting a child and i can stop it i will go right there and stop it, but this supposedly omnipotent being will be like "Ok finish up, i will punish u later when you are dead" what about just stop him and thats it

If any god or deity is powerful enough to interfere with worldly affairs and only concerns himself/herself with irrelevant stuffs like finding car keys, saving from armed robbers, if i have sex or not etc while tonado, hurricane, tsunami, ebola, earthquakes, children dying everyday, starvation etc batter the earth on daily basics.
Then that god is seriously doing a bad job

jmoore:
if God does not exist, then morality is just a
human convention, that is to say, morality is wholly subjective and non-
binding.

Exactly morality is basically a human convention born out of empathy and regard for others... Oh when it comes to the issue of unbinding, it is unbinding and whatever we do is basically our responsibility.
But in our the human society we still have laws governing each society, So our deeds must be in full coincide with our intellect, empathy and the collective good of the society.

jmoore:
If God
does not exist, then what is the foundation for moral values

Morality is not distinctively christian neither is it muslim or hindhu, morality is human, it belongs to no ism and does not depend for foundation upon any book or creed or supernatural cus morality itself is a foundation. . . Human morality is born out of empathy and obligation to the collective good of the society. . . Being good does not need or have to be imposed, you agree with me that whatever is imposed is not born out of pure will, Goodness should be born out of pure will and this will is driven by our empathy, contrasting our feelings to that of others.

jmoore:
what is so special about human beings?

Oh our intellect makes us so special.. look around you and try to compare what you see to other animal societies.

jmoore:
, if atheism is true, there is no moral accountability for one’s
actions

Oh their is none after you are dead but their certainly is here on earth... Try committing murder now or raping and see what i mean from your prison cell

jmoore:
The cruelty of atheism is hard to believe when man has no faith in the
reward of good or the punishment of evil. There is no reason to be
human. There is no restraint from the depths of evil which is in man[/b[.

If you are moral because of the promise of heaven, you are only good for your own gain and that is selfishness, how is that morality.

If you are good because you fear hell, you are only good because you want to escape punishment and save ur own skin, that is selfishness.

@bolded is the mistake you all make, trying to make man out to be evil by nature and that is pure lie played by religion to bring man to his knees.
You are quick to point out the evil in man but not the good.
[b]No man is born evil and none is born good, but we all have instincts for both good and evil, it is the choices we make in our deeds in contrast to these instincts that determines if we are good or not

Image123:
You somehow manage to forget to answer my questions. Here they are.
-How do you arrive at these conclusions?

Seriously i wonder how you still manage to ask such questions after all the replies you have gotten so far.. So believing in a deity is an automatic ticket to being good right? Because boko haram, isis believe in allah they are automatically good right? because the christian crusaders believed in yahweh they are automatically good... hmmm now thats a shallow criteria for being good... I have told you before our intellect directs our thinking and our empathy directs our action... Only ur good deeds can make you good and only ur bad deeds can make you bad.

Image123:
-Why do you want or encourage me to be good for GOODNESS'sake?

Just because of the bolded and thats all.

Image123:
- Is it okay for me to be good for God's sake?

Oh being good for any abstract ideas is your own cup of tea.. Being good because it is right to be good is the essence of goodness.

Image123:
Morality cannot be independent of God. Morality has to have absolutes. An independence of God means the loss of absolutes. We cannot afford to do just what we feel is good, because our feelings are different. There has to be a moral law giver, else in some cultures, it is good and okay to kill twins whilst in some other culture it is not okay. All humans are bad and a product of a fallen race. We are like files in a corrupt folder in a computer. No matter how useful or big or relevant the file is, it is still in a corrupt folder. It is corrupt. It needs an external help in the form of an up to date antivirus. We all need God to be good. Our good deeds do not make us good, they simply remain good deeds This is why the Bible calls our righteousness filthy rags, they are inadequate. so to be brief;
Morality comes from God, not from feeling.
God in conjunction with you should guide your thinking about how to act. These guide mine.
i am moral because of God mostly. There is no wrong in being moral because of the promise of Reward or the threat of Punishment. People have different motivations for doing things and God makes ample room for that. He provides rewards and threats too, you choose which motivates you better. Good parents and good governments also do likewise. There should be reward and there should be punishment. Being good for nothing should not be promoted or publicized or exalted above other reasons, without reason.

@bolded...look at the type of poo someone is talking... Seriously i just find it very hard and infuriating to reply this type of post anymore...

The worst now is if you ask him how all humans are bad he will start telling you the Jewish mythical fables of adam and eve with the talking snake.. **Sighs**

Emperor4God:
[size=14pt]I agree with you that niether allah nor zues nor shiva can make you good.

People naturally are wicked, so the natural thing for people to be is evil.

Genesis 6:5
And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth,
and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
[/size]

[size=14pt]ONLY THE BLOOD OF JESUS CAN MAKE A MAN GOOD.
WITHOUT THE BLOOD OF JESUS WE ARE ALL DOOMED.


Romans 5 (KJV)
8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that,
while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

9 Much more then,
being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
[/size]

ok read my post again... people are naturally wicked, WTF is wrong with all these guys... which planet did you all come from

Can see a lot of bitterness and hate you all have for your exes which shows they actually broke ur heart when they left... if you ever loved you would never wish pain!!!

Image123:
How do you determine that "Your beliefs doesnt make you a good person, your behaviour does". How do you arrive at these conclusions? i do not think that the hindus or the muslims believe that they are good. They believe that they have to do a lot of good. i'm not good because of any good that i have done. Why do you want or encourage me to be good for GOODNESS'sake? Is it okay for me to be good for God's sake?

You always manage to get words twisted. . . You asserted that doing good doesnt make someone good (i wonder) that only believing in god makes someone good... then i just made it clear to you that [size=20] Believing in any god or deity be it allah, yahweh, shiva, zeus doesnt make you good, your behaviour is what makes you good [/size] no more needs saying.

Cutehector:
she geh mind tel me say holy spirit gv am bele. I go just baptize am wit yoruba slap. She wil narrate to me whch of d holy spirit.

hahahahahaha this guy oooo ur mind bad gan

macof:
I was jst pointing out the false information you were spreading

chai... **sighs**

Cutehector:
Will give her a resounding slap.

hahahahahahaha that story gan.. u wan kill ur fiancee ni?

seemples:
If he had doubted the dream, the angel would've come at day time with some flaming sword!

So ur guy knew the earlier he believed the better.

lmao... no be small fin ooo..

elantraceey:
Joseph didn't believe until he was told be an angel in a dream so i don't expect any man to just believe.

In a dream!!! lolzzz

assuming you just found out your fiancee is pregnant, then she says its from the holy spirit... Would you believe??

macof:
Spirit beings are the same all over, it's the concept that differs.

And pls don't come here spreading false information and utter ignorance on ancient cultures...ancients understood everything they ascribed Gods to, things they didn't were more like demons because they feared it. They studied rain and other things and assigned the god concept to their findings

I believe my post was clear enough... No need for any argument or further discussion bro.

undercat:
I'm not implying any particular deity. As far as attributes of the deity are concerned, what matters here are the omnipotence/omniscience of the deity. It just needs to be powerful enough to have created the natural laws. The theist is my concern here, as I feel there is an inconsistency in believing God to be all powerful and yet incapable of achieving whatever he wants through natural processes, which is implied when they reject a natural account for the existence or state of certain things. Any sort of theist may hold this belief.

I hope my point is not too obscure.

Yeah i think i get you boss

macof:
Exactly, even the god Yahweh was a canaanite built concept thousands of years before the emergence of the Hebrew tribe

yeah ofcus thats undisputable... the kenites were the first to worship the deity some 300years before isreal adopted it.

undercat:
It's no particular deity. All that is required is that the deity be maximally great.

So am guessing you are implying this deity in the deist conception?

malvisguy212:
read post 25 . seriously there are many things you don't know about the word of God,I believe there comes a time when you will say "mhen ,I was wrong about everything about God"God is not bound to keep our time,That which does not come in your time, will be hastened in his time, which is always the more convenient season. He will perform his word, honour our faith, and reward them that diligently seek him.bible liken the patience and strength of a man as Eagle,why? Because if an eagle want to die he will flew to the topest of the mountain waited patiently until his time is up. An eagle only weight 4kg but can lifts and object of 20kg, His strength comes from his MIND.

nawa oo just simple yes or no... you start going in circles.

is it or is it not... a very simple question!

malvisguy212:
The Song of Songs is a poem about love.
The main speakers are a man, and the
woman whom he loves.
At the start, the couple are not yet
engaged. The woman is not sure about
the man. She twice sends him away. She
does not want to share his life.
But in the end, she learns to trust him.
They marry. She is ready to become a
mother. And she is glad to work with him. Her attitudes have become mature.

Actually, Solomon was not a good model
for a husband. He had many wives. He
married these women for political
reasons. For example, he wanted his
country to be at peace with Egypt. So he
married the daughter of the king of
Egypt. We do not know whether Solomon really loved all these women. But the woman in the Song of Solomon was different from these other women.
Solomon loved her deeply. She really was special to him.

so it means you are implying that the song of solomon is not part of the breathed word of god huh?

Image123:
You did not tell me which Christian community has done anything in Nigeria, or which Christian community is as financially buoyant as the Gates or is in competition with them. You did not tell me the facts that you said i avoided.No wahala.
It is good to read that you believe in God. But to say that people can be good without God is WRONG. Maybe i wasn't clear enough though. i will say it is possible to do good deeds without following God or believing in God. But to be good, NO. Nobody can be good without God. i hope what i say is clearer now. By the way, and by the way, you don't keep mentioning Gates as reperesentative of the random atheist. Melinda Gates is not atheist, but a professing christian. Catholic or so. Mr Gates himself said that his actions are motivated by religion so stop putting him up like the narrow minded atheistic bigot and extremists on forums. Again, you can do some good deeds with or without God, BUT you cannot be good without God. People can do good things for different reasons as it as being pointed out. You can do good deeds because of the law or constitution, or the society you live in, or for some reward or personal satisfaction, or you can be good for nothing like some are proposing. However, nobody has come here to show us how it is not okay to do good for reward. On the contrary, some have admitted to doing good for reward themselves.

Their is nothing else that needs saying that have not been said already bro. [size=20pt] Your beliefs doesnt make you a good person, your behaviour does
[/size]

None needs saying anymore bro... be good boss

The hindus believe they are good because of shiva
you believe you are good because of yahweh
muslims believe they are good because of allah
and so it keeps going.
But all this creeds and moral codes guiding these lot are all products of humans and then affiliated to the God concept.
Anyway whatever you believe is for you... But we say again
[size=17] Be good for goodness sake my brother [/size]

Acekidc4:
What is dis one saying na!! Why is it in d Bible in d first place wen we can't Quote it!!

lolzz you can imagine

This is what i am

Acekidc4:
I totally Agree with you 100 percent!!

Thats what being a humanist is all about... TRYING to be good to ALL, no matter who or what ever it is and regard nobody as an enemy no matter how bad they treat you. being good without expectation of reward or punishment afterwards.

Acekidc4:
BE GOOD FOR GOODNESS SAKE!!
That's a Very Wonderful Statement there!!
Am a believer of doing good deeds without expecting Something in Return!! Nice one Bro.

Thanks bro... That is the essence of we humans...
Being good for goodness sake..

You agree with me that earth and all in it deserves goodness and love no matter what

Papist:
Thanks for the honest reply. I asked because you seemed to ridicule those who believe in creation so I thought you knew better. Anyway apologies if I had misunderstood you.

I dont ridicule i just want to make him understand that knowing is better than belief.

The idea of God or Gods is an archaic concept that have rid people of their drive to understand how things work.

Take for instance the ancients believed that they must be a god responsible for rains, a god responsible for thunder and so many things but now through careful study we have come to know better how these things happen and their causes and nobody believes a god does these things now.

the ancients worshipped the sun and even the moon but now we know the sun is just another average star in a universe with countless stars.

Socrates used to question everything and the god concept and because if it he was killed.
Philosophy poses a question that may not have answers, religion gives answers that must not be questioned. and science being an off spring of philosophy trys to answer these questions through study and experiment always open to scrutinization and reviews.

Guess all am saying in essence is that it is better to find out these answers by study than just say a spirit being did it.

(i.e; And as you and i know different people and cultures have their own spirit beings and all claim their own spirit being did it)

Macelliot:
If Moses never existed, then Israel, the Jews, the Torah, Books of Moses, e.t.c never existed.

Lolzz and you dont even have any idea who wrote the torah

According to the wikipedia encyclopedia

[b] The Book of Exodus is not historical narrative in any modern sense. [11]
Modern history writing requires the critical evaluation of sources, and does
not accept God as a cause of events. [12] But in Exodus, everything is
presented as the work of God, who appears frequently in person, and the
historical setting is only very hazily sketched. [13] The purpose of the book
is not to record what really happened, but to reflect the historical
experience of the exile community in Babylon and later Jerusalem, facing
foreign captivity and the need to come to terms with their understanding of
God. [14]
Although mythical elements are not so prominent in Exodus as in Genesis ,
the echoes of ancient legends are crucial to understanding the book's
origins and purpose: for example, the story of the infant Moses's salvation
from the Nile has its basis in an earlier legend of king Sargon, while the
story of the parting of the Red Sea trades on Mesopotamian creation
mythology. Similarly, the Covenant Code (the law code in Exodus 20:22–
23:33) has notable similarities in both content and structure with the Laws
of Hammurabi . These influences serve to reinforce the conclusion that the
Book of Exodus originated in the exiled Jewish community of 6th-century
Babylon, but not all the sources are Mesopotamian: the story of Moses's
flight to Midian following the murder of the Egyptian overseer may draw on
the Egyptian Story of Sinuhe . [/b]

Macelliot:
How come their are no Egyptians texts that mentioned moses, or the Israelites ever being enslaved in Egypt.

That's their own. Findings and Research still continues.
Are there any Egyptian texts refering to any mass exodus of slaves from Egypt?? The Seven Years Famine.?

can you show us... ...
....
Isreal is just another canaanite civilization that emerged within

Acekidc4:
You are Welcome Bro!!! Ow re u doing Today?

Doing great