CatfishBilly:
Joshthefirst, you're aware of the Harvard/Templeton foundation prayer experiment, right?
What do you have to say about it?

1. Prayer, is entirely subjective. It means different things to different people cannot even know how much

2. We cannot completely apply limited human investigations to determine the out working of God's power.

3.They cannot even quantify the actual amount of people praying, random numbers of friends and family, etc. if we want to give them any leverage.

sonofluc1fer:

Of course. Science has laboratories and tangible innovations.. Prayer.. Just a huge lottery.

Once again, you're comparing things that have nothing to do with each other. Science is not competing with faith or prayer as you make it out to be. Prayer is (or should be) a very personal activity, and it's results are subjective, and personal, not a lottery. You can mock prayer if you want, it's like pushing against a hill. Humanity will always reach out in prayer to deity.

sonofluc1fer:
Thanks to science and technology, you could transact business with a Chinese man without ever meeting in person. Prayer is a supernatural communication to nowhere; only an idea that exists in your head, one that was taught to you.

Prayer is not an idea. It is a personal and powerful communication with the supernatural. For me, it's everything communication can be and more.

"Thank God for science"

This ^ is a prayer for me, thanking God for blessing man with intellect to learn about and control his environment!

Prayer is made out to compete with science by people like you, but it is exponential synergism for me.

sonofluc1fer:
Of course, it would be a foolish person that demands of prayers the same scrutiny science demands of itself.

good.

sonofluc1fer:
I agree. What has your prayer done?

My prayer has done many things, it has enriched my relationship with God, and saved lives, it has healed me and others, it has changed destinies in the unseen realm.

sonofluc1fer:
And science helps him achieve this. Science is with you - the phone in your hand, transmits the words you create in your mind, the electricity it runs on. Bur you import phones.. You wouldn't know how much research goes into producing this technological marvel. But you've got the Holy Spirit that reveals all things. Lmao.

Science helps us a lot. But prayer helps me even more. Communion is the drive of my life. It helps me do my science more effectively. It has helped me speak better, it has made my intellect sharper in grasping scientific entities you do not know about. It has enriched my life and my relationships. The Holy Spirit is awesome, you know nothing about him, and I pray for you, and pity you for it.

sonofluc1fer:
God would be a greater miracle.

lol. God imparted the mind and intellect that makes you understand the words I type, that activity that makes your neurons synapse and store information, the voice of your mind that expresses communication to itself. God is the creator.

sonofluc1fer:
Bettet than the travesty and ridiculousness that a cross in calvary somehow freed me from God's vengeance.

It did, thank God. And the way of salvation remains open to you, because of God's grace.

sonofluc1fer:
How work? Still up for a fame of chess? I dey Lag btw. Guess you're still in Enugu.

I no dey Enugu o. Cold is finishing me on the plateau.
I'm always up for a daily, should I challenge you? Or will you do the honours?

realtem:
Hmm... Nice replies joshthefirst.


To the point and simple

Thanks.

Tearless:
Damn! Antispam bot got me. My reply to Joshthefirst is gone. Everything. The entire post. Chai. But why?

maybe you should try praying a bit more.

TheIlluminatus:
The definition of MIND might not be as simple as you put it. If mind is consciousness, what about UNCONSCIOUSNESS? Is it part of mind or not? You must have heard of the Sleep-walking phenomenon.

Of course by consciousness, I don't mean wakefulness, or even plain awareness of surroundings, I mean sentience and a mind state of self-awareness.

TheIlluminatus:
Hi. Thanks for your input.

The Old Man argues that man has never had an original thought since his thoughts and reflections are reactions to external information and are therefore determined by external causes.

I believe you must have heard of the TABULA RASA theory which states that mind is originally blank, a white canvas to be painted in any color by the external world. It denies the concept of innatism, and rather asserts that every knowledge and thought that exists in the mind is gotten from experience and perception which are externally generated. But the Old Man's argument is NOT entirely predicated on this theory. While the tabula rasa theory supports the NURTURE aspect of the nature-nurture debate, the Old Man accepts that there is such thing as nature - the MAKE, which is born in a person - but it is informed, determined and made active by external causes i.e NURTURE. So his position is not so different from yours.

So, we have:

You - There is NATURE and there is NURTURE. Both are INDEPENDENT of each other, but can INTERACT to determine the a person's thoughts and behaviour (although this is NOT always true, since NATURE alone determines it at times).

The Old Man - There is NATURE and there is NUTURE. Both a DEPENDENT on each other for meaningful effect an expression. Their INTERACTION ALWAYS determines the thoughts and behaviour of a man. NATURE is passive and is only activated as a REACTION to NURTURE. Therefore, a man's thoughts and behaviour are determined by EXTERNAL INFLUENCES.

TABULA RASA - There is only NURTURE, and it determines what you think, how you behave and what you become. There is NO innatism. You are created and informed by your experiences and perceptions only, which are externally generated. So, WHILE ACCORDING TO THE OLD MAN, TWO DIFFERENT PEOPLE WITH DIFFERENT NATURES WILL PRODUCE DIFFERENT OUTCOMES WHEN SUBJECTED TO EXACTLY THE SAME OUTSIDE INFLUENCES, ACCORDING TO TABULA RASA, TWO DIFFERENT PEOPLE WILL HAVE EXACTLY THE SAME OUTCOMES WHEN SUBJECTED TO EXACTLY THE SAME NURTURE, SINCE NATURE IS A PHANTASM. IN YOUR CASE, HOWEVER, NATURE ALONE CAN GENERATE OUTCOMES WITHOUT A NEED FOR EXTERNAL INPUT.

Which is right?

In fact, for my purpose, I'll combine your position with the Old Man's and dispense with the tabula rasa idea. That will leave us with the position that BOTH nature and nuture exist and they CAN interact to determine the behaviour and thoughts of a person (let us leave out the debate on whether they're INDEPENDENT or not for now, since that's your objection against the Old Man).

Now, let's return to the Old Man's argument. According to him, we can take NO CREDIT at all, for our thoughts, behaviours and achievements because they DEPEND totally on our MAKE (nature) and OUTSIDE INFLUENCES (nurture) [their INTERACTION, that is]. Since we're NOT RESPONSIBLE for our NATURE neither can we determine how we're NURTURED, then nothing we do, including our thoughts is of our own merit. In other words, WE HAVE NO FREE WILL. WE'RE NOT SELF-DETERMINED, BUT RATHER DETERMINED BY THE ONE WHO CREATED OUR NATURE, AND THE EXTERNAL CAUSES THAT INFLUENCE IT.

What do you think of this?

I think that there are certain basic attributes of human nature, and I think that humans are very influenced by their environments, but everyone has a will. An example is that of love, another one is prejudice. Love causes us to Intrinsically give and sacrifice, and put others above ourselves. We can be INFLUENCED by an environment of love, but in the end it remains a choice to love, a learning.

The old man made a serious and wrong statement, borne partly I think as a result of his inadequate comparison of man and machine. He said "PREJUDICES CAN ONLY BE RID BY OUTSIDE INFLUENCES OR NOT AT ALL"

Wrong. Prejudices can ONLY be rid by choice. Outside Influences can impart a desire for change, but choice makes the ultimate decision to path to a betterness of life

lepasharon:


He still a student, amberon too

a student of science.

JackBizzle:



...
Where you are wrong is that religions still oppose the little 1% that we know as human beings.

For instance, we know that prayer is useless from a scientific point of view. We also know that most miracles are lies. But religion no dey gree.


Furthermore, it is logical that an omnipotent God could be the rules of nature to create miracles. BUT DOES THE SKY DADDY EXIST?

prayer has nothing to do with science, prayer is spiritual. It is a supernatural communication, so why do you expect science to have an opinion on it? It is outside of the boundaries of science, so don't be unwise. Science is very limited, even in our bid to understand the physical universe. Man's heart yearns for the spiritual, and the impossible.

Life itself is a miracle. Things like people parading about with an unbelief in transcendence is a miracle.

It is not just logical, but it is necessary, for God to exist.
And telling someone to calm down and still using derogatory remarks like "sky daddy" is foolish of you. It seems you have a very annoying mentality that you are Intrinsically better and smarter than everyone else, and you are right and can never be wrong.

JackBizzle:
This thread is for Christians who are scientists, whether they are doctors, lab assistants, technicians, engineers etc.

HOW DO YOU BALANCE YOUR RELIGION WITH SCIENCE? THIS IS VECAUSE THEY CAN BE POLAR OPPOSITE AT TIMES.

JUST LOOK AT THESE QUESTIONS

1. As a biologist, how do you explain Jesus rising from the dead, when you know that a dead body can't rise again especially after 3 days?


2. Where does Jesus's other set of chromosomes come from if Joseph is not his father (no biological father)


3. As a geologist, wouldn't there be earth or soil under any body of water? Then how could God in genesis claim to have floated over deep waters and created the earth?

4. How do you reconcile pastors healing diseases with no cure? How can someone be healed of Aids, Ebola etc?

5. How can an astrophysicist look at the vast emptiness of outer space and agree that a great omniscient God created such a waste?

I interpret the word "religion" more accurately as faith. How can I balance my faith with science? I don't. My faith and science are not at polar ends.

You should understand once again that science has it's limits, and it doesn't make any intrinsic assumptions about the extra-pyramidal, miraculous, or supernatural. YOU are the one who makes assumptions about the supernatural, science simply seeks to understand and methodologically investigate that within it's grasp, the physical, primarily.

So to your numbers:
1. We know that it is scientifically impossible (meaning current scientific methods have no way to accommodate) for the dead to be raised, but it is not impossible for the source of life to give it again, supernaturally.
2. See number one
3. Genesis says God made the waters recede from the land. Read your Bible well.
4. God, who created the body, has the power to heal diseases we are not capable of healing with our limited medical knowledge right now.
5. How can any man look at the beautiful balance of life's parameters and the intricacies of life itself at all levels and think there is no omniscient God?


I advise you not to make assumptions or be dogmatic or go through life pretending to know it all like an arrogant man, and be open to more knowledge, and seek to find truth, and truth will find you.

Old man is wrong. Thought, does not come from extrinsic machinery of mind. Thought is independent and intrinsic, spontaneous expression of consciousness.

Thought can be INFLUENCED. But choice is independent, from spontaneous ones, to reflective ones. I have arrived at this conclusion, based on personal intrinsic reflections as well as reflections on the thoughts of others.

@theilluminatus: what is the mind? The mind is the inner voice that reads this words to you. It is the consciousness, the aliveness and intelligence that makes sense of a bunch of symbols of sensory input that you interpret as LOGICAL LANGUAGE.

KingEbukasBlog:



lolz . He has been an atheist for over 5 years and has been arguing with Christian intellectuals for the same number of years . Its 2017 and the same atheist claims that an eternal being create itself . Can you just imagine ?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQ5XsgJp9g4


Isn't this the Attention Deficit Disorder we all have being telling them all over the world that they suffer from . Because they just don't pay attention . They just can't .

Fortunately , those who paid attention have dumped atheism .

This is really nice. I can point them to this video, because the question has been asked and answered on the platform countless times, this quite sums up the answer.

PrecisionFx:



Yes. A mixture of that.

so what's your point?

Many aren't given a choice. They're suddenly thrust into the 9-5 life, without any escape, or thoughts of escape...except maybe during midlife crisis

sonofluc1fer:

Make we play na

na only daily I fit play. No live, unstable network. If you still in challenge me

sonofluc1fer:
This thread was supposed to be for fun. If this is fun.... Wahala dey o..

lol

sonofluc1fer:

Bros

sorry abeg

analice107:

He is an atheist though, but mature and doesn't leave issues to attack and insult characters unlike these children here who are badly brought up.

lol. Thanks for the upvote analice.

JackBizzle:



Look at the bold. You said that an eternal being can't be created but the being created itself

?

Do you know what eternal means?

^^
I know about the genome you see, so I'm even more fascinated when I ponder the wealth of intricacies of genetic information than a layman.

And I'm dumbfounded when people who are learned men deny the obvious. It's a showcasing of human stubbornness in the face of their genius. A prime example of dogmatic thinking.

One will look at a cell, and say it arose by chance. How unfortunate. John Lennox has really summed it up here.

KingEbukasBlog:
Please pay attention to the third time he went beast mode . Start from 9:00

Quite a great and eloquent presentation of a powerful point

KingEbukasBlog:


I don't think its a sin that pornographic images are used to sexually arouse the man so that his sperm can be retrieved . Use this logic : Killing is a sin but war against an oppressive enemy , self defence and abortion to save the mother's life are not considered sinful.

When you stare lustfully at a woman , its for the pleasure of the flesh but if you need to so as to run fertility tests then why should it be a sin ? How else will orgasm be achieved if not through steady arousal ?

Lol. I have no answer to this bro. I have no labels to pin here. Whatever anyone does in this case is between that person and God.

Pidgin2:



That would be fornication

So a man receiving treatment for say a prolactinoma cannot undergo a fertility review? I find this unsuitable.

I still hold on to motives in this case shaa. God will discern, not us. We learn everyday.

felixomor:


Masturbation done for medical purpose isnt a sin.
But u and I know majority dont do it for medical purpose

Masturbation falls under Lasciviousness.
Its a manifestation of the flesh.
It has killed the spirituality of many young men.

In some places abortion(one not done to save the mother's life) is considered a routine medical procedure. Doesn't make it right.

Pidgin2:



As to your question, won't they give him pornographic materials to view so that he can get aroused? The photos he looks at to get an erection are not his spouse's image, they belong to other women so he has committed a sexual act with the image of a woman he's not married to

I understand, and I largely have this piont of view, but I have a question about it also. Single unmarried men also may undergo fertility testing requiring them to produce semen for examination. What do you say to that?



Note that I also believe thinking lustfully about someone who isn't your wife is wrong.

Pidgin2:
Will the initial process of sperm retrieval involve masturbation? Then it's a sin but without the masturbation, how is surrogacy a sin, it isn't

Why is masturbation a sin? It's just a question. No strings attached. In medicine we may want to examine semen for some issues like fertility, etc. The man has to ejaculate and bring samples. I don't know of any non-surgical method of sperm retrieval without erection and ejaculation.

To the op, I think as someone has already said, it all depends on motive.
I see no wrong in surrogacy itself. My opinion.

But I'll also advise that it is healthy for a child to grow up in a stable family environment with a mother and a father.

dalaman:



Which truth? Your truth is subjective because it is a lie to another person. What you call the truth is not objective as such can not be called truth at all. Its simply make belief.

So there is no truth at all?

Life has no meaning on its own part from survival. Humans chose to ascribe what ever meaning they want to give to their lives that is why the meaning of life varies from human to human and across various cultures and religions.



The purpose of.life is what you chose to make of it, that is why different people ascribe diffrent purposes and meanings to their lives. God is a human creation that is why there are different Gods and religions all created by diffrent cultures and civilizations.

Survival is life's meaning? That's nonsense. What is there to survive for when death is inevitable? What is the point of suffering and struggling to survive a pointless and inconsequential life? Apart from maybe smoking weed if that appeals to you.

sonofluc1fer:
.

...
Like higher purpose has any meaning. Suicide bombers act according to higher purpose. When dafuq has higher purpose meant good, great or even useful purpose? Stop bringing your 'church grammar' to public forums.

higher purpose is simply purpose. A good reason to live or die. To move forward. You have none. Pointlessness.

How? Na wa.. Surely, you know better. Achievements and aspirations can be reached and achieved without carrying the corpse of a dead God on your mind. You know better.

What's the point of achievements and aspirations if there is no purpose or point to existence itself? Why go to all the trouble? Better just spend what time you have smoking pot.

Life isn't cruel. Life is. Life is impartial, just like nature. Remember those Nigerian Christians bombed to smithereens by Boko Haram years back? Life. The others that were in TB Joshua's collapsed building. Life. I have good friends around me and weed too. I enjoy life. I live life. I take the good and bad parts of it. That's life. Brother, you can't understand while the cross of that Jew weighs upon your skinny black ass.


Your mind has never been steeped in any sort of thought. African man believing in a dead Jew. You obviously have never looked at a map.

I understand life much more than you. Notice that all the examples you gave of life are of DEATH. What an irony, what a tragedy. It looks like your beliefs are beginning to Influence your subconscious. The only useful thing you have to look forward to in your meaningless and pointless life is death atheist.

I have hope, joy, and the love and relationship of God that transcends even death itself. That is life and living. I look forward to waking up and making achievements tomorrow, because my actions count both now and in eternity.

sonofluc1fer:

Hehehe. I wonder if y'all jack off to thoughts of Hitler, Stalin and all those other Europeans you're so desperately in love with. Eurafrican.

Oh and yes, life is pointless. You can believe in the after-life, if that gives you a sense of purpose and usefulness. Some of us find purpose and meaning in interactions with other life forms. One doesn't need GOD to appreciate smile, beauty, death, hunger, hardwork, pain, sorrow. That's life.

It's unfortunate you'd never be able to understand that. You're too trapped in your God delusion, you after-life Conqueror. May the Good Lord grant you all the earth you require to rule when we unbelievers are all dead and gone.

Now you're beginning to get it a little. Your life is pointless. If your life is pointless then all your fancy purpose and meaning and life forms smiling nonsense is a huge pile of pointless sheet that has no meaning.

I'd rather reside in God-delusion than subscribe to this nonsense. And if you believe life is pointless then stop trying to convert me to your pointless meaninglessness and leave me in my so called delusion.

sonofluc1fer:

Lol. It's still tough for y'all to comprehend atheism isn't a religion. Or a set of rules. WHat dafuq does true to atheism means? WHat next? Atheist takwas? Blaspheme? YOur minds are so steeped in religion, it's difficult, near impossible for you to comprehend life without those institutions or terminologies. Can't blame you though. You're a Nigerian afterall, where people pray before eating meals and after having sex.

Atheism, means a lack of belief in God. A non-belief in God. Such a worldview has implications and consequences, atheist. One of it's implications is that there is no higher purpose or meaning in your life. Death sheets and laughs in the face of all your achievements and aspirations and whatever you do or want to do. There is no point to anything, other than enjoying the cruel existence of life before passing away to dust.

Your mind has never been steeped in critical thought about your belief in unbelief. But I don't blame you.

dalaman:


What is the meaning and purpose of life that is universally acceptable by all humans?

why should it be universally acceptable? When we are all different? When some of us have not yet come in contact with truth? When all of us are free to choose to reject truth?

So because there is no meaning or purpose that is universally acceptable then there is no meaning at all? Try to examine your thinking carefully, examine both sides of the great argument and consider the veracity of your worldview.

If we don't all have universal purpose then there is no purpose
If we don't all have universal rule then there is no rule
Because we all worship different God's then there is no god?

Illogical nonsense.

sonofluc1fer:

You greedy fella. Why would you want to live forever? Bitter truth, you won't. You and everyone else you know will eventually die and be forgotten. Life works that way.

You can believe the lie that you'd be living forever. While there's life, that dream remains valid. Unfortunately, death is as sure as heaven is uncertain. In brief, Bleep your beliefs.

And if you need heaven to appreciate life, you never deserved to live in the first place.

Lol. You foolish fella. Why would anyone want to die? My life is worth living, though your pointless life is a huge assault and insult(I'll understand if you want to die), only a wicked one will cause you to take breath and open your eyes to the thrill of living only to end it in pointless nothingness. Your truth is a lie that even you do not believe. Is life a gift then to be appreciated? It is only an accident, a cruel one if what you say is true. Why waste time hustling and looking forward when there is no forward to look to? You, an inconsequential speck in the universe? Do you appreciate life then? What is there to appreciate If you and Hitler and everyone will end up dead and forgotten? If that was life, then i'd rather have not been born.

That is not life. You and I know that. So I'll advise you to empty your foul beliefs, for they take much faith, effort and foolishness to be subscribed to.

dalaman:


Of course death ends all. Even planets and stars die, so what exactly are you on about? You will live after you doe but only that you will live in Allah's hell.

If death ends all then there is no point to life and moving forward so stop disturbing me with your meaningless sheet. Wallow in your pointless existence and leave me and others alone to look forward.

sonofluc1fer:

On the contrary, I've always been a proud Hell candidate, if that shit exists.

No be poo o. Hell may be a party. You will live forever, and who knows, you may see some buddies. Just that you may have to make your own sun and home, after all you've rejected the one who could make them easily for you...you may also encounter more powerful beings filled with hate for you too, that'd be very bad. I don't know for sure how hell will be, and I don't wish it for my worst enemy. Any life outside of my loving father is hell enough for me.