₦airaland Forum

JackBizzle:
You are not reasoning logically. You say numbers are not boundless and yet, you contradict yourself by saying that there is always an increase. There is no limit to numbers.

No. you are not reasoning logically. every number is defined. don't get ahead of yourself. numbers are boundless doesn't mean they are undefined.

I would argue that infinity itself is a number. There is a symbol for it

This is idi.otic. Infinity is not a number.

To give you a practical example of inifinity being a number, just take the simple division of 22/7 or the symbol called "pi" π.

That "Pi" number is infinite because, equivalently, its decimal representation never ends and never settles into a permanent repeating pattern.

Pi is simply an irrational number. it cannot be expressed as a fraction of whole numbers. That does not mean it is undefined. It is defined. pi is 22/7

Limitless can increase. You can multiply 2 infinites. For example, let us assume that the universe is infinite in all directions. If I try to travel to the top of the universe, I would not get there because it would take me an infinite time to get to the top of the universe which is infinite. If I then plan a second journey to the bottom of the universe, that would add an infinity to another infinity- it would take longer to go to the top and then backwards to the bottom.

No. It would not take longer, because the time measured is indefinite, as the distance cannot be measured. the distance is undefined, therefore the time is also undefined. this is simple logical reasoning.

The problem with this your infinite God is that infinity does not exist in the real world. It is a contradiction. Something can be infinitely big but can still be bigger. Can God make a God more powerful than himself? The apparent contradiction is soo clear. What if God gives birth to God 2.0? A self-refuting contradiction.

Infinity is a vital part of our reality. Our universe is a subset of infinite parameters, literally, rationally. Something cannot be infinitely big and still bigger, that doesn't make any sense, numerically it may, but not in the sense I speak of.

As for the bolded, your premise is already destroyed and you're talking nonsense.

JackBizzle:
So, you just act like my comment doesn't exist?

okay.

Sorry, thought I had already.

JackBizzle:
A boundless entity is not duplicated? Who made that rule?

It's logical reasoning.

Simple logic even defeats that statement- numbers are boundless in to ways- they can be infinitely increased or decreased- you can keep adding up or subtracting down. To suggest that there can be only one boundless entity is myopic in thought.

Numbers are not boundless. Every number has a definition, and can be quantified. That numbers increase is nothing special. With each increase there is a limit and quantification. Infinity itself, is not a number. And can numerically never be reached. A vital point.

JackBizzle:
Infinity, in theory, can be multiplied.

Here, you give me leverage for another vital point. Infinity multiplied is still infinity, from any perspective. You could say the same about Trinity. God may be revealed as multiple persons, but he remains God. Limitless

And when you think about it, limitless cannot increase, or be reduced. It simply is.

JackBizzle:
Ironically, I just finished watching Jet li's "The One" - a movie where there could only be one infinitely powerful chi master in the universe.

I like that movie.

thehomer:
You are confused. If your God is the sum total of all existence, then he is more than three persons since more than three persons exist in this reality.

You misunderstand. God has revealed himself as three persons.
And when I say he is the sum total of all existence, I don't mean all fractions and niches of existent verities add up to him. I mean existence itself and everything in our reality is contained in him. He is boundless and everything. A being who is "everything" cannot be duplicated, as the very definition of his presence takes up limitless infinity.

thehomer:
You just said there were three beings that exist as God and that all human beings are a subset of your God. Humans are individual persons therefore we have more than three persons that are a part of your God.

As I have said, I don't mean our collective consciousness equals God. I mean God's limitlessness contains all of existence and reality.

Great thread Ebus!

Why did jackbizzle? Plaetton? Pastoraio?

God takes no pleasure in the death of anyone. Choose grace, Choose life, and live.

This is God's heart:


The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
John 10:10 KJV

Do you want to have a taste of Real life? Meet Jesus!

foladara777:
Of course, we know that atheism doesn't increase your intelligence but u become an atheist because of your higher IQ...

smh.

thehomer:
They didn't help. They're just more confused. They say humans aren't supposed to understand a person or persons that they worship. In such a situation, how do they know such a person or persons even have good intentions towards them?

If you understand it, why don't you explain the concept in your own words? Show me the way you arrived at your understanding. if you don't understand it, maybe it is because it is actually nonsense.

God is revealed as a community of three persons, yet one being. The very definition of God's nature shows that he is the sum total of all existence and all reality. This obviously means that every form of existence that is manifest in reality is a subunit of his boundless limitlessness.

There can't be any other being that exists as God, because this ultimate being(God) is the sum total of existence. Any other personality revealed will be the same being.
God has revealed himself as three persons, A Father, a Son, and a Spirit. Simple.

JackBizzle:
So this eternal being just existed?


Why assume that there is only one eternal being?


Why also assume that such a being cannot die? For to live is to die. There is no life without death. If you never die, you were never alive in the first place.

Logically, this eternal mind being could never be alive

To reply the bolded, a boundless entity is not duplicated. As God is everything and eternity, there can be no other being taking up any extra reality apart from him, as he himself is reality. any other personality will be the same being from a different perspective. God has revealed hi self in three persons to us, one being a man, Christ Jesus. Take it like that.

plaetton:
I agree completely.
Morality refines instincts.

But morality evolves, instincts are innate.

If Morality evolves then we are doomed to conform to any authority that defines good or bad in the ages.
Morality is an objective standpoint that is God himself.

Plaetton was truly confused in a profound manner to have posted this nonsense. I can't believe I took good time to try to argue with him.

AgentOfAllah:
That was a rich thread, although, it quickly degenerated into a contest of 'how many insults can we slip into complementary arguments' between plaetton and joshthefirst...

lol

PastorAIO:
Joshthefirst, see o... All this for you, just for you and you are wasting it. Remember the parable of Luke 14 16 to 24

sorry. Got really busy really fast. Should be on later to refute you

PastorAIO:
Abeg Craze man, I made a mistake to respond to you in the first place. Please carry your idiotic nonsense and find someone who is deranged enough to want to discuss with you. cheerio!

DeepSight:
You are a cheap waste of space - Ad hominems added upon your pathetic attempt to deny that which was being discussed just reeks of both low intellect and dishonesty.
I am certain you know I am not moved by your meaningless words. I much prefer my insanity to your dishonestly, flatness and lack of intelligence.
Many cheers too.

You guys are still hilarious after all these years.

PastorAIO:
Oh, so we do care about logic in this matter after all. I thought it was irrelevant to Faith-based cultists.

Of course. I've been logical in this matter from the start. Carefully explaining my communication with no solid reply from you apart from puerile attacks like this and looking for a play on words and loopholes in my conversation and mockery.

If you are an embittered and troubled man I can't do much to help you on the net. Nairaland isn't a good place for troubled people.

PastorAIO:

In mathematics, topology (from the Greek τόπος, place, and λόγος, study) is concerned with the properties of space that are preserved under continuous deformations, such as stretching and bending, but not tearing or gluing.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Topology



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-eJW0gEm5w

How does this state a point contains the universe? Are you mad? Even your definition has nothing to do with supporting your earlier nonsense speculation.

When faced with sound logical thinking you come up with idiot.ic falsehood and musings to counter concur and buffer your own embracing of randomized directionlessness thinking. Well-done.

PastorAIO:
Perhaps in your world I'm talking nonsense and postulating but Mathematically speaking (Topology in fact) a Point does contain the entire universe.


I could not say whether or not you were theorizing or whatever in what you've said so far. But I do not imagine that you believe yourself to have a personal tete a tete relationship with 'Existence' itself. I mean a relationship that only members of your cult have and no one else.

Mathematically speaking the universe was once a point. No where does maths state a point contains the entire universe. Dont start spouting falsehood in your directionlessness sir.

With logical thought, outside of our physical reality and it's dimensions is a transcendent infinity; God's presence in pervasive limitlessness.

Asking if God can create a greater consciousness is an illogical question.

PastorAIO:
The less sense it makes the better. In order to bypass any critical faculties and directly access those faculties that will give the 'powerful and satisfying' feelings that he is talking about.

I pointed out that what he said was powerful and satisfying because I had pondered and come to realize those things myself, only to be inspired even more when someone with more influence said same.

I'm now quite sure you have some comprehension problems. You probably never read the OP completely. Very funny when the group of you concur.

PastorAIO:
Perhaps God as the container of everything is just a Point. However where will we say that this point is located?

I am speaking topologically.

Perhaps you're talking nonsense and postulating.

Have I ever sounded like I was theorizing in what I have said so far? No.

stephendamsoho:
its a simple Yes OR No question

No it is not. Is there a greatness bigger than everything in reality?

JackBizzle:
How ironic.

Deepsight also finds you to be a blockhead, if you don't know. You and him are on similar paths but different destinations. He arrives at a God but a different God from yours.

Deepsight's God is eloquently crafted from the mysteries of science and the flowery literature of sophistry. While your own God is created from the sewage that is unrefined irrationality.



Wait.......I have started using big grammar like Deepsight!

It seems I need a good night sleep.

We all find others blockheads in certain areas. Some people are found to be blockheads in almost all areas. (You should know I'm talking about you).

I don't care what anyone's opinion of me is much, especially yours. (I like marsman shaa). I already know DS is deist, and I pray he becomes Christian too.

Maybe you need another false sabbatical from here and a new moniker. Be sure to announce yourself as loftily as you normally do.

lepasharon:
So in other words he can't..

k den.

Did you in any way attempt to understand what I said?

Kay17:
But the root of evils are not amongst the axioms of existence in the first place

They have nothing to do with the axioms of existence.

Evil and good are simply characters of action and thought.
Conscious beings of free agency will have a potential for evil, which must be dealt with.

DeepSight:
You are funny:



How terribly odd. "People" refers to something that exists. To persons. It is beyond me how you can sleep well arguing that there can be people who do not exist.

And then to use ghost workers as an example of "people that do not exist" - especially in the context of the preceding contentions.

"Ghost-workers" are not people in any sense.



Life after the transition of a person from his physical body is a self evident fact to anyone conscious enough to even be aware of himself and his daily existence within this body.

However the question of life after death still is not even necessary here as in either event we are speaking of a person who existed on this material plane: even for the doubters who say that life ends at death: one may revert to the effect that even the physical remains continue in the material cycle of life - that would rest the more subtle meanings of the OP which elude you.

I believe the truth is that your words of anger stem from your recognition of how ludicrously out of place your "ghost workers" example was, when you first attempted to give examples of the existence of persons that could "not exist."

I am not responsible for your incomplete reasoning processes or the paucity of thought within your mind.

Don't waste time going back and forth with logicboy sir.

You have proved your point astutely to those who can read and comprehend english. Especially with this:

How terribly odd. "People" refers to something that exists. To persons. It is beyond me how you can sleep well arguing that there can be people who do not exist.

DeepSight:
@ OP: Does this build a thread of reasoning somewhere in what you are trying to say regarding the self existent nature of God?

PS - You rightly should not worry too much about the futilist AIO who starts nowhere and goes nowhere: as a matter of fact, he has propounded quite exactly what your OP says in the past, in simply different words.

Thank you very much deepsight.
God's self existence is only difficult to grasp by those who choose to be blockheads and refuse to apply themselves to logical reasoning.

To me, the fact of his self existent may not be completely understood, but it is the destiny of my logical thinking, and a fact of reality based on the nature of creation itself.

lepasharon:
What do you think?..Can he?

God permeates all in reality. Everything about infinite reality beyond universe conception is 'contained' in him, so your question is not feasible in the first place.

Kay17:
If God is the sum total of existence and a transcendental infinity, which are the axioms of your understanding of God, how is evil permissible?

In pictorial terms, a glass of clean water like purity can be said to be unclean or impure.

Evil(the nature of and act of evil) is an outcome of free agency.

LaClicKLaBenDin:
I'm not surprised at the comments of all these anti-God horsdes in here, who come in the guise of atheism.

They're some things I can't say to them; things like what Benny Hinn said above. These are stuff that are way above their limited, myopic, logical and failed human reasoning.

"The things of the spirit is foolishness to a carnal mind".

Yeah. It was all in a genuine effort to urge men to abandon foolishness and pride and embrace truth. To open their eyes and stop closing them in rebellious tantrum.

lepasharon:
Can god make another god more powerful than himself?

Can you read and deduce that information by yourself?

PastorAIO:
Then why do you do so?

'Existence' is a noun. are you trying to tell us that you are foolish?

Why should you bother trying to talk about something that you say is ineffable?

Where exactly did you learn this 'point of God's supreme nature' that you want to pass to me? In the bible?

Or from Benny Hinn?

Or from your own musings?

Once again I have to condescend to plain stupid.idity and explain gently to you the essence of my communication since you aren't the only one to bring it up.

when I said ordinary 'nounish' issues, I was referring to what you said here:

PastorAIO:
A person can be tall or short, but it is nonsensical to say that a person is height.
You might get away with saying God is Life depending on what you mean by life.

How can eternity be in a person?

I was trying to let you get my point, I still am. You ask if I am foolish, but the fact is that I feel closest to foolish when I try to explain simple matters to people like you, who would go as far as feigning idiocy to look for loopholes in my conversation.

PastorAIO:
Could you please further explain what those statements mean?

How can a person be Existence? Existence is a state, or a value that you give to a thing. A person can exist or not exist.

A person can be tall or short, but it is nonsensical to say that a person is height.

You might get away with saying God is Life depending on what you mean by life.

But the most nonsensical of all is to say that Eternity lives in Him.

What does Eternity mean to you? How can eternity be in a person?

I am simply trying to pass across a point of God's supreme nature to you. God is transcendent. You would be foolish to apply ordinary 'nounish' matters to him.

Come clean and stop being annoying if you don't understand what I'm trying to pass across (I think you do shaa, I choose to have a high opinion of you in spite of contrary evidence).

When I say God does not 'exist'(note parenthesis. The parenthesis implies there's a deeper meaning to what I'm saying, logically.) I mean he did not come into being, like us or the universe. He is the reality of presence. Before such concepts of time or space, or beginning or end he IS. IS! For petes sake. He is the sum total of existence. And everything about reality is contained in him, by inference. This does away with the id.iotic problem of any such infinite regress(take note Lennycool).

By eternity, I mean infinite longevity. Before anything else (including a beginning or end) existed, God IS. ('IS' since there was no relative past present or future of his presence) If he transcends the term 'origin' itself, then he is not 'limited' by infinity. Infinity is 'contained' in him.

I have done my best explaining my words, such that even a child would understand and I probably won't go to this great length anymore.

Pastor Benny Hinn said something I've been stating about the fundamental nature of God and his life. He said it in the power of the Spirit last night at a ministration in Lagos.

GOD does not exist, HE IS EXISTENCE. God does not live, HE IS LIFE. God does not live in eternity, ETERNITY LIVES IN HIM!

The first and last phrases, especially the last, are quite powerful and satisfying to me and everyone who ponders. You see the Spirit is one and always says the same thing.


God is the origin, yet he became man because of his love for us. The FACT OF HIS INCARNATION IS NOT TO BE A SOURCE OF DOUBT, IT IS TO BE A SOURCE OF THE INSPIRATION OF HIS LOVE FOR YOU AND ME.

The power of his life flows in believers in this world. In spite of lies, we are the bearers of truth. We are the graced ones, and we will continue to shake the world even more with his love and power.

Now is not a time to be idiot.ic as many are, reprobate, lounging in deadly darkness and lust and filthiness of mind and mouth. Now is not the time for foolishness in old men and young. It is not the time for pride to deceive. Now is not a time for doubts. The truth is around you. It's words are in your mouth. Seek it and you will find it. Confess it.

For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son. That whosoever believes in him will not perish, but have everlasting life. The son did not come to condemn the world, but that the world might be saved through him.

If you believe in your heart the Lord Jesus, and confess with your mouth that God raised him from the dead, you shall be saved.

For there is no other name given among men with which they will be saved, save the name of Jesus.

Do you really believe this Ishilove?

I dissected a lot of cadavers in anatomy o. We effectively desecrated a lot of bodies so to speak, for the sake of knowledge and science of course. Didn't have any problems.

Once life is out of a body it's empty. it can't move or speak or anything. The mortuary keepers must be collectively imagining things maybe.

The only trouble I had with dissecting was how to identify structures and avoid choking on formalin.

^^^^^

And you remain confused. Pointing at circumstances and trivialities to buffer your rejection and denial of what the truth and Christianity is.

Continue to bask in your euphoria sir. When you are ready to be real and genuine we're waiting for you.

Watch CNN and blame all the bad stuff on your enemies, the religious folk. Childish, but well done.