₦airaland Forum

GentleMimi: What makes you think i aint calm? Talking of alternate moniker,why are peeps trying to decieve themselves,thinking they can decieve others? Ehn?
Patient indeed. Lol!
You sure do. Most of us saw through you from the start. Mr. Patient.

GentleMimi: LMAO! @ jpphilips. I can see you are really hurt by the fact that i countered phantom's lousy and lame examples with so much ease. You want me to shut up? Really? Loooool! Why not shut me up with an adequate argument rather than hiding behind your ''patient'' status. It is obvious you hate challanges. I've met people like you who are eager to trample on others just to exhibit superiority. I will not use insults to shut u up, but wld rather pick on your brain.
You claim to be a neutral body,yet u're too sensitive and make comments which do not support that fact. Come clean,boy. Why the tin dey pain u na? Abi ''phantom'' na ur alternate NL account?
Now,this is a confirmation of the fact that you are in the system,hiding as a ''patient'' just to get cheap sympathy. I dey lie? Lol! Do not be ashamed of ur profession na!
You made a vague statement as ''phantom'',right? If u wanna give examples,why wld it be a lame and vague one? Why not give us something applicable and realistic? Vague comments aimed at making others seem inconsequential.

This was his comment,and he was very clear. Why go further to ask him if he cld apply it in all medical cases?

nursemyke: oga philips you are [b]most ignorant [/b]concerning the politics and practices in the health sector. kindly stop misleading the general public. nobody is stealing the ownership of the patients from the medical consultants, all JOHESU is saying is that healthcare is a teamwork with respect being mutual and reciprocal. let me educate you that the so called members of JOHESU who wants to be adressed and treated as consultants have acquired the requisite academic and clinical competence in their various field of practice. this will enhance more patient care outcome. more consultant specialist in various field more healthcare benefit to the client.
there is paradigm shift in the healthcare industry now lets all accept it.

joker5180: @Op you clearly are one of US.

Good write up, conqour with most of your points but I differ as follows;

NON DOCTOR CONSULTANT
NMA should not be against this, allow them to become CONSULTANTS but each one of them MUST have JOB DESCRICTION so that a NURSE CONSULTANT can not delay or stop a medical doctor's line of management even if he is a HOUSE OFFICER, she can only advice where necessary. Same should apply to other professionals.
NMA should ensure that their regulatory bodies come up with criteria that is internationally acceptable before such appointments can be effected, advanced academic qualifications and new skills rather than years of service should be the yard stick.

GentleMimi: @ phantom,my sister..
Is your explanation so bogus that even you cannot make yourself understood? You sound like a quack in the process of trying to come across as an ''independent'' worker.
Oh you do obtain diagnosis by physical examination only? Interesting. Or u are subjected to mild cases only,while the top guns handle more challanging cases. What the hell has this discussion got to do with rural hspt? We are talking of an average hospital,dude. Even if u find urself in a rural area,certain cases will require u to refer ur patient to the city for proper investigations. Rural hospitals have limits,so stop giving me lousy and lame examples.
You are the one running round in circles in an attempt to seem effective. Prior to sending ur patient out for investigations,what you have made is simply a guess work. If u get called up tomorrow,can u defend your guess work boldly?
It is peeps like u that are giving ur fellow doctors a bad name. A doc thinks he he can diagnose based on symptoms and interrogation only. Lol.
The Ebola virus has quite similar symptoms to acute malaria. I guess u'll give ur patient antimalaria to deal with such a case,right? Loool! Quackery village dokinto.

teeebugs: Read Full Story
http://leadership.ng/news/377812/food-import-bill-drops-2-6bn-3-years

http://monitor9ja.com/2014/07/nigeria-records-2-6bn-drop-food-importation-last-3years/

Samgreguc: yea, and after going that far and passing the residency, becomes a fellow, u will still recieve same pay package as the normal B.pharm when its obvious ur input is rich and aids the patients alot.
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Truth be told, our hospitals believe they are okey with the B.pharm.

Aids the pharmacist pocket you mean?

Samgreguc: what do u think the word consult mean? To own?
Please, venture into research and the history of that word and when you are done endeavour to appologise to that word for calling it(consult) another thing.
.
.

The title “Consultant” in a hospital setting describes the relationship between the Specialist Medical Doctor and his patient. It will be a source of confusion if the title is applied to any other health worker who statutorily does not own patient. NMA therefore declares with unmitigated emphasis that if “non-doctor consultants” are appointed, it will lead to chaos and anarchy in the health sector. This should not happen.

Samgreguc: I spoke on an average base bro because, I doubt what the he said about the Pharmacist.
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Though, dont forget no one is above mistake. . . So, dont vouch dat much.

Samgreguc: if the bolded is true and u still dont see any reason for specialization then u aint telling urself d truth. You know why I said so? Now, this is it, the Pharm. D guy is just a graduate who hasn't specialize in any of the pharm field. He read alot in pharmacy school(frm farm to industrial to hospital) and you expect him to b a magician? Can a fresh MBBS graduate perform better on their field like the Pharm. D fresh grad.?
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We need to specialize. . . So, that consultation can be done.

tmontee: Your attempt at winning the empathy of 'ordinary' patients has been betrayed by your own subsequent posts. Only the undiscerning will fail to see that you are indeed a Doctor.

That being said, I think one sure way out of this mess is privatization. That way, only those who truly have something to offer, including the doctors themselves; will find their way into any hospital. Only then can we begin to talk about putting the 'PATIENT' first. For now it's just politics and ego at work.

centje:
I've wasted my time with a kid. Sorry for quoting you, my dear.

GentleMimi: Ahswear! This kain patient ehn...! Hin dey see ooooo.



Hehehehe...Mr. Patient,really? What do u do when u get to hospitals? Tell nurses to present their certificates and qualifications to you. LMAO! How u take know who be auxillary,B.Sc and registered nurse? Oga patient!!!

It is easy, just ask any friendly nurse which school she finished from especially the one who looked oppressed, you will be surprised how much of her colleague's CV you will have in the end.

adeoladrg: How come you know so much? You're a patient oo

Surprising huh! after two minor procedures in a space of 10yrs? well, the only thing you need to know is that whenever you are serving the public, someone is watching and remove the impression that all Nigerians are m0r0ns.

It doesn't take anything to see through their politics, you think we don't see all those nonsense you guys do? a Doctor sends a nurse to bring catheter, she sends the Reg nurse. who brings the bigger one for bladder when it is the one for urethra, doctor squeezes face, nurse rushes back to swallow the reg nurse alive
we see all those things I only complain when it is absolutely necessary and yes, I slap when necessary too

GentleMimi: Lol. Yet u claim to be a patient. Come out clean,boy!
Nobody ''owns'' any patient. Stop confusing yourself with that phrase. Very funny and naive.
Who does the diagnosis,to confirm the prognosis? Medical scientists.

Who handles patient care in the wards? Nurses.

Who handles therapy in patients with bone issues? Physiotherapists

A patient comes into the hospital with complaints of malaise,nausea,weakness and pain. There are more than ten disease conditions with the same set of symptoms. Automatically,he requests for MP/widal. It comes out negative. What next? If he is a god,let him now determine the cause of the patient's ailment with his ''prognosis''. If he is a god,let him take care of the patient when admitted.
I repeat,nobody owns the patient. It is a collective effort.

adeoladrg: One question. If you had a thyroid removal surgery to do, or appendicitis. Or say a cancer removing surgery, would you allow a Nigerian medical doctor do this on you?

But for your last submission, you were on point. Conclusion was really shallow, those are no reasons for the superiority of medical doctors

chucs: Mr man its not every nurse that packs faeces. There is hierarchy and carder in nursing profession which is also found in other profession. U seem to be a patient that has vast knowledge in medical field but found it difficult to acknowledge the existence of nurse consultants as seen all over the world. I find it difficult to understand why a professional will not be allowed to get to the peak of his/her career. The issue on ground is not about ownership of the patients but the a clear knowledge of what consultant stand for. According to wikipedia "a consultant is a professional who provides professional or expert advice in a particular area such as security(electronic or physical),management,accountancy,law,human resources,marketing(and public relations),finance,engineering or any of many other specialized fields"

GentleMimi: You call it grammar,i call it facts. No,i aint accusing you. Use your tongue to count your teeth.
I will always be realistic. The first point of call in a hospital is front desk officer/receptionist...then nurse....then a doctor...then a scientist....back to the doctor...and finally a pharmacist. Others come in at certain points. But do not EVER take one unit as insignificant. The last point of call is usually the pharmacy.

adeoladrg: If at this point, you're still talking about owning the patient, then I have no more words for you.

adeoladrg: We argued all this while on NL and uon know? Well, I'll first love to secure the PharmD degree, works for a few years then undergo residency to become an Endocrine pharmacist.

adeoladrg: My brother, pharmacy also has specialty areas just like medicine. HIV pharmacists exist, Endocrine pharmacists exist, I personally know a Renal pharmacist.

All you need to is undergo Residency training provided by WAPCP for a minimum of 6 years depending on your area of specialty. I just got an info from a consultant on FB, that's there's also post residency internship for about 3-4 years depending on the area of specialty too.

This is what makes you a Consultant pharmacist. Now tell me how useful such a person is to patient care. Compare how an ordinary pharmacist would optimize an HIV patients polypharmacy prescription to how an HIV pharmacist that has spent almost 8 years studying the HIV drug would optimize!

This still doesn't destroy the patient-doctor link. It just makes sure the patients get the best drug therapy at whatever time.

You cannot be paid as a consultant just because you are responsible for just an ailment, haba! consultant for HIV pharm, consultant Kidney nurse, consultant cosmetic cleaner, the whole thing should sound ridiculous to you (Hope you didn't chip in the HIV clause to scare me ) After all doctors manage HIV patients too or your own HIV now have wings?

please If after your sojourn in the realm of HIV, Pharmacy et al, you cannot own a patient, then it is useless to us. NMA has been able to accept that responsibility and Nigerians are glad to give them the Badge and honor to go with.

adeoladrg: Oh cool, you must have also seen experienced pharmacist correct doctors on the use of drugs! Probably tell the doctor or a not-so-expensive drug to use for a particular condition, or device a better route of administration or an alternative therapy and lots more. We want more knowledge, we want more specialization! WE WANT TO UNDERGO RESIDENCY TRAINING FOR 6 YEARS? 7? 8? WHATEVER!

It adds to patient care! IT'S NOT ABOUT OWNING THE PATIENTS!

The title “Consultant” in a hospital setting describes the relationship between the Specialist Medical Doctor and his patient. It will be a source of confusion if the title is applied to any other health worker who statutorily does not own patient. NMA therefore declares with unmitigated emphasis that if “non-doctor consultants” are appointed, it will lead to chaos and anarchy in the health sector. This should not happen.

GentleMimi: Young man,being a consultant does not mean ''ownership'' of a human being. It means being an expert in ur field of work,so as to be able to give advice and top notch contributions towards the improvement of services.
the posts have four key functions: expert practice (max. 50%); research, evaluation and service development; education, mentoring and overview of practice; professional leadership.

adeoladrg: Admit that they make mistakes that kill patients! Mistakes that would have been avoided if we had an all-inclusive system with experts of pharmacist consultants and nurse consultants! Just admit!

The Joint Commission on Accreditation of Healthcare Organizations (JCAHO) - have initiated countless cases against nurses in the United States, between 1998 and 2001, they have initiated well over 413 cases of malpractice,http://www.nursingcenter.com/lnc/journalarticle?article_id=423284

adeoladrg: You think this is a fight about owning the patient? You'll understand better when you lose a loved one to a doctor's mistake that could have been corrected by a pharmacist or nurse.

GentleMimi: What patient? You aint a patient,dude. Lol! Some of us aint naive.
You brandish the health workers as people fighting for inconsequential needs. All i did was point them out to the alleged ''patient'' who has been convinced into believing that health workers are a set of egocentric individuals who want to war with doctors. As for ur thread title,oh really? Lol.
For the record,i'm a female.

And what do u mean by ''own'' a patient? U see why i have doubts abt u being a neutral mind? Patient indeed! *scoffs*.
Obviously,making quality health services available to ur ''patients'' at an affordable and attainable cost seems to come at the bottom of ur list.
Do not give me the ''patient'' line. You expect good services when the service provider is subjected to a non-condusive working environment and deprived of basic incentives. Oh wow!

We are in the system,we know the drill.

phantom: thank you!!!regarding the first bolded.... are masters and phD the required qualifications for consultancy abroad? if they are please furnish links.secondly,in what setting abroad do the consultant nurses and pharmacists work?? in the hospitals please furnish links
@second bolded.....let the relativity be maintained.skipping johesu without skipping doctors will erode that relativity.the relativity we are using now is not the proper one.

@third bolded.....the issue of hazard affects evreybody and that is why i maintain that chukwu should be sacked. the issues in the health sector now can only be settled on a round table iwth all the interested parties involved.
hazard should be paid based on the risk you face at work.simple!!! and it should be negotiated for all health workers at the same time.
lab scientists&pathologists>surgeons(including O&G)>radiographers/radiologists>pysiciians including paediatricians>nurses>pub health docs>pharmacists

@fourth bolded....privatization is the way to go.that is one of the reasons NMA is insisting on 100% coverage for NHIS. they go hand in hand.
privatization will address simultaneously the issues of quality or standard of healthcare(including training of personnel and up to date equipment) and better remuneration of workers

snowytee: TF is "I was meant to understand"?

I didn't say they should be reduced to minions, all I proffer is that a limit of years experience should be inserted, then there should be no monetary gains in being a CMD .

I for one is not happy that consultant Drs are reduced to doing administrative work in a country where the doctor : patient ratio is disproportionate. A nurse or a pharmacy or a doctor can be a CMD so long as their pay package remains the same. That way, I doctor would not envy that CMD who is a nurse since he/she earns more than him/her. Nigeria like making the top juicier and hence corruption persists.

Consultant nurse or pharmacy is too vacuous an idea for government to approve. The status quo of a dr (only consultant) should remain.

Now,back to the issue of consultant,let it be known that there are conditions attatched to the title. Medical scientists,pharmacists,nurses,physiotherapists attain educational level of Phd in their profession.
For example,a medical scientist specializes in haematology in masters and Phd level,obtains his fellows and satisfies all requirements by the MLSCN council. Why should such a fellow with vast knowledge in haematology not be allowed to consult with the patient and the patient's doctor on matters relating to haematological matters? It irks when i read some comments here.

In terms of salary,lets have a rethink. For example,as an intern,a scientist earns N120K, a doctor/house officer earns N170K-N180. Now JOHESU requests for an increase,relative to CONMESS scale....N150/160k. Why NMA wan come get HBP on top the matter? All JOHESU is asking for is a relative increase. Peeps who are shouting abt job the rigors of the medical duty should not undermine what other health workers go through. Being on call in haematology laboratory in a teaching hospital is like being on a rollercoaster!
It is the same time too. So what is wrong abt JOHESU requesting for shift duty/call duty allowance and other special allowance.
As an intern,hazard allowance was a mere N10k. What d hell! We handle body fluids too and get exposed to all the vile things running amok.

Those who want privatization of other health sectors are living in a fool's paradise. Who can afford it? Services in the health sector is highly subsidized,but still expensive for certain peeps.
Privatization will only make things worse.

And for the skipping of a thing,why are doctors against skipping when they are doing it? They skip from 10 to 12,we want a skip from 9 to 11. Why dem wan get headache? Lol! *SMH*
finally,on the issue of CMD,i will state here boldly that i have no qualms with doctors being the CMDs. All we ask for is professional courtsey.

anomsodi: I laugh wit dis half baked argument....jus as in de university dat comprises very profession..jus as agric extensionist can be a vice chancellor of de university does it mean dat oda dept wil nt function well...for Me been a consultant makes u an authority ova ur profession...