₦airaland Forum

Lurker4Long:
Asserting something repeatedly, does not imbue the assertion with logic.

For the last time, try and answer the question: why would a shipyard currently building our hydrographic vessel, not be capable of building your LST?

There's a 35 years gap from the launch of SAS Drakensberg. There is no evidence the shipyard would be able to handle such a project.

The design for the hydro graphic ship which Southern African Shipyards is building for the South African navy is imported. Indicating a capability shortfall.

Steel used for building the ship for Project Hotel is also imported, the engines, navigational equipments, shafts and generators are imported.

The contract for Project hotel was awarded in 2017, yet till this year 2021 the ship is still been built.

Steel cutting for the Nigerian navy LST began in November 2019, the ship has been launched and would be transferred to Nigeria next year.

The capability for a South-African shipyards to deliver an LST for Nigeria is nonexistent. Awarding a contract to South-Africa would be similar to building the LST in Nigeria.




P.S: This is not to say South-Africa does not produce some nice military equipments like MRAPs etc


However given current capabilities no South-African shipyard would be able to build an LST for Nigeria.

Ivorian GIGN

Shield Africa 2021, Ivory Coast

Lurker4Long:
I guess you missed the part where I said the Hydrographic vessel is currently being built, incidentally by the same company that built SAS Drakensberg.

Let's be realistic.

Lurker4Long:
Shipyards that have built pic1 and currently building pic2 cannot do pic3?

SAS Drakensberg was built in 1986

The second ship hasn't been built.

Yet you want to build an LST for Nigeria?



I admire your optimism but you really need to wake up to reality.

Nigerian design engineer working on SDB 3 design.

Lurker4Long:
I would've loved for our shipyards to have got the work. SAS, Paramount/Nautic Africa and Damen SA would have done it cheaper.
But regardless of where it was done, well done to the Nigerian Navy.

Domestication of skill and building an independent shipbuilding industry is irreplaceable.

Odunayaw:
But did any of your shipyards place a tender? I assume we are talking of the LST

South-African shipyards don't currently have the skills to deliver complex ships.

There's no way any company from RSA would have bidded for the LST.

Odunayaw:
Yeah, I didn't imply it was cheap. I'm only glad we could keep a bulk of that investment in-country

My joy will be full when we also have exports

Hopefully by August SDB 3 would be launched, and SDB 4 would be 60 meters long.

Hopefully we continue to grow our home grown skills, while we also look to importing skilled talents from abroad (Nigerian or foreigner).

Example the design for South-Africa's hydrographic ship which is currently been built is Canadian.

Odunayaw:
NDL have come a long way. The SDB is $8.2m

That's not cheap. Large vessels are quite expensive apparently.

NDL has a good order book. They have done a lot of jobs.

giles14:
our LST in faraway UAE is been launched while the SDB is still sitting in the docks.

Actual construction began in 2019 though. Damen is one of the world's largest shipbuilders, so we can't really compare.

However I agree, SDB3 construction has been slow.

..

Black players in Europe seem to be experts in whining and crying.

Everybody gets insulted after a poor result, Lukaku's claim is nonsensical.

Cameroun navy has shown interest to import Navy ships/vessels from Nigeria.


The design of Seaward Defence Boat 4 has commenced, construction of ship is due to begin after the launch of Seaward Defence Boat 3.

Bureau Veritas currently engaged to classify SDB's currently built by Nigeria in preparation for exports.


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vanguardngr.com/2021/06/nigerian-navy-to-begin-construction-maintenance-of-ships-for-other-countries/%3famp=1

Salatavor:
[s]This rightly describes the nonsense that we waited for 9 years to get two units of. The mere sight of JF17 reminds you of our importunities as a nation. I am sure even if the JF17 was just a cardboard carving of a jet, this government will go ahead and buy it just to prove that they can buy jet[/s].

You come across like a lonely, sad individual.

chrisblack:
you go about on the forum forming technical expert on rubbish. Am around to trash you on what you know not. Even India's Tejas out performs the J17. ignoramus .and I repeat it a gain. Even the block 3 J17 are not true 4.5gen

Run along you have been noticed.

lionel4power:
Some people were complaining that they could not Register.

Here's the link.
https://forum.military.africa/login?action=register

Bros, stop spamming the thread with your links.

We have seen it.

NIGERIAN NAVY LAUNCHES NEW WARSHIP

The Nigerian Navy (NN) has today launched a new Landing Ship Tank (LST) at Damen Shipyard, Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. The construction of the ship began about 2 years ago and when commissioned, will replace the first set of LSTs of the NN, NNS AMBE and NNS OFIOM which have been decommissioned.

The introduction of the LST to the NN inventory will bolster NN sealift capability. Specifically, it would enhance the transportation of troops, military hardware, vehicles in the conduct of maritime security operations launched from sea as well as supply of relief material during period of national emergency. Furthermore, the vessel will serve as a critical component of naval power projection for enhanced maritime security in the Gulf of Guinea and beyond. In its secondary role, the LST will play a critical role in the protection of maritime assets and preservation of law and order at sea, thus contributing significantly to promotion of global maritime commerce, peace and safety.

The new LST has a complement of 32 crew and 250 embarked persons and a length of 100.08m. She is powered by 2 Caterpillar/Cat 3516 C-rating engines and 4 Caterpillar C-18 generators. Furthermore, she has an endurance of 15 days @ 15 knots. If she is to be used for humanitarian missions/evacuation, she can accommodate over 450 persons on its upper and lower decks in short trips.

The bid opening process for the procurement of the LST was held on 19 December 2017 and supervised/conducted by a team from the Bureau of Public Procurement as well as a technical committee of the Nigerian Navy. The Shipbuilding companies that participated were Damen Shipyards of the Netherlands, Anadolu Deniz of Turkey and Indian Shipyards GOA of India. On 13 June 2019, the NN and Damen Shipyards signed the final general arrangement plan and specifications on the LST 100 and this date of 13 June 2019 became the effective date of contract for the LST 100. The contract duration as agreed by both parties was approximately 36 months from the effective date of contract. The Keel laying ceremony for the LST 100 was held on the 9 December 2019 at The Damen-Albwardy Shipyard in Sharjah the UAE. The immediate past CNS Vice Admiral IE Ibas placed the Nigerian Navy insignia into the keel and sealed it.

Over the last 2 years several Factory Acceptance Tests with regards to various components of the LST 100 have been jointly and successfully completed by the NN and Damen Shipyards. Most notable among these FAT’s was the main propulsion engines tested in 2019/ 2020 and the Remote Weapon system which was also successfully tested in March 2021.

Damen Shipyards is one of the biggest multinational shipbuilding groups in the world, operating more than 50 shipbuilding and repair yards worldwide. On the African continent, they operate a full shipbuilding yard in South Africa and in Port Harcourt Nigeria, they operate a fully equipped maintenance yard. The LST contract is being handled by DSNS (Damen Schelde Naval Shipbuilding) the naval shipbuilding arm of Damen shipyards and the ship is being constructed at the Damen-Albwardi Shipbuilding Yard in Sharjar in the UAE.

chrisblack:
you are right but even the block 3 as claimed by china to be 4.5 is not really true.its just their usual over hype

Keep quiet.

You sound ignorant.

Nigerian Air Force JF-17 Block 2

yoged:
please enough with your useless Intel. It was posted on this Pakistan forum by 1:05pm. You think we guys are kids? Den swear for you with Intel?

Like, who uses Defense News Nigeria as a credible news source??

The events of the past few weeks in our country is enough to breakdown the most strong hearted Nigerian.

I want to use this medium to pray for peace in our country Nigeria.

God in heaven will not put our country, Nigeria to shame.

Love, reconciliation and open dialogue will guarantee prosperity and harmony in our nation.

Nigerian navy LST

I measured Seaward Defence Boat III on google earth.

The ship is exactly 45 meters long.

SuperSixSeven:
The Indian Mig21 was shot down by a AIM-120C fired from a F-16 -( i dont know what YOU mean by "aggressor role" in this context). Core of the PAF is still their F-16 fleet which is the most capable platform in their inventory, while the Jf17s are gradually replacing the MIrage III/5 and F7.
No country with enough financially resources would even think of buying a Chinese aircraft made in Pakistan. For a number of reasons we are unfortunately forced to do so. Therefor we should keep our expectations as realistic as possible and put on a brave face waiting for better days to come for the NAF to touch the sky with glory.

This is a very ignorant post.

Countries such as Nigeria and Burma can choose whatever fighter that suits their security needs.

Nigeria was never going to buy a MIG-29 or SU-30 as our domestic security needs do not require a long range heavy fighter.

We only had 2 options to choose from in the Light combat category, the JF-17 and Gripen.

Both aircrafts offer similar capabilities, when you take into account access to spares, political consideration, long standing military relationships, cost and aircraft availability, the JF-17 far outstrips the Gripen in a Nigerian context hence the choice.

We have followed the JF-17 purchase with aircrafts from America, China and Russia.

So when next you intend to spew ignorance, first think.

Stargate254:
Looks like KDF is gearing up for MONUSCO deployment in DRC.

What vehicle is this?

Covert1:
We are saying the same thing except for your claim "we all knew..." which is strange because while it was known the JF-17 would incorporate DATA-link it was not known to be active on the JF-17 block 2. If you say otherwise I'd seriously doubt your integrity. You might provide citation.

Now we know it shares data and some of what that data is... beyond that what you are not saying is that the NAF JF-17 is a 4.5 generation jet something Janes report cleverly skipped to avoid any controversy evidently not privy to details about the Jet but which you boldly claim based on open source information about the nomenclature of comparable Jets is matter of fact not the case. Are you a fighter pilot?

Is there any evidence apart from what we already know for you to prove your claim?

Why should I believe you or the fighter pilot?

Except you are not well versed on this subject, the JF-17 has always used Data-Link known as Link-17 in the Pakistani Air Force.

It's not a new capability.

The new capability mentioned by the pilot which wasn't open source till he said it is full fly by wire capability of the aircraft.



https://quwa.org/2016/04/05/link-17-pakistans-homegrown-data-link-system/

Covert1:
Interestingly no certified expert has come out to contradict the NAF JF-17 Fighter pilot.

Janes Defence Weekly has even corroborated the NAF fighter pilot without as much courting any controversy if the NAF JF-17 was 4.5 Gen.

Yes the JF-17s can share data something not previously known just like the 4.5 Gen designation by the pilot of the Jet himself. All of this is new information. Many are willing to travel with everything new he said about the JF-17s in NAF service but struggle to accept the reality of him saying these Jets are 4.5 generation cadre. He didn't even say Block 2.

And also yes the JF-17s can fire its missiles on to a target based on the radar lock of another JF-17. The term state-of-the-art the pilot used is indicative of the Jets advanced capabilities.

This is the report from Jane's defence.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.janes.com/amp/nigeria-inducts-jf-17-fighters/ZnlJK3dHVU9mZ28xajRJVkc5dVI5VFp1cVMwPQ2

As you can see, Jane's Defence does not mention anything to corroborate your claim that the aircraft is 4.5gen.


We have all since known that the JF-17 could share data with each other, DATA-Link has been present in this aircraft since inception.

The JF-17 is an excellent fighter jet, but it is not 4.5gen. The Block 3 is 4.5gen.

The part in bold is Data-link. No need repeating ourselves.

Covert1:
Numbers are nice but for me the medium term goal would be to see how we can invest with the Chinese and Pakistanis to set up capacity for assembly of these aircrafts in Nigeria. Most nations now buy with that incentive in the deal. It helps to transfer technology and know how.

This only works if the buying nation is purchasing a considerable quantity, not 3 units.

Even if we purchase 32 planes they would still not be assembled in country, we would be looking at a hundred units and above.

Covert1:
We've been through this but I understand its your opinion based on what is open source information. But you do realize there would be a lot of problems for tactical planning if the fighter pilot is giving the inaccurate intelligence on that JF-17 Thunder aircraft. I doubt his superiors would accept that if it was not the case and no one in the NAF or PAC or CAC has come out since then to disprove his claims.

It's not my opinion bro, it's a stated fact, and well recognized by multiple international organizations including CATIC & PAC, the manufacturers of the JF-17.

Again, his comment is not enough for CATIC or PAC to disapprove his claim because Nigeria is not a major user, 2 the pilot was speaking to a domestic audience.

If Nigeria had purchased 16 aircrafts and the pilot made that claim, it would have been refuted.

iblawi:
24 JF-17 will make meaningful difference in the Air Force's capabilities. Block 3 will make more sense for next set to be procured.

From the briefing the pilot gave, I think the Block 2 is an excellent platform, with steady advancement in capabilities, it would be a great platform.

kabe1:
Video brief of the JF-17.


Talking about the JF-17s data-link, air to air & air to ground capability, weapons hard point, targeting pod and designation, and HOTAS.


The Pilot refers to the JF-17 as a 4.5 generation aircraft, I don't agree with this, put the JF-17 is clearly a formidable aircraft.




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3FDrRnGyko

From the above brief, the JF-17 is clearly a very formidable aircraft with advanced capabilities.

The world over only the SU-35, MIG-29m/MIG-35, Euro fighter Typhoon, Rafale, F-16 block 60 and above, J-10C, Gripen E/F, F-15, JF-17 block 3 are referred to as 4.5 generation or 4++ generation aircrafts.


With the JF-17 I like that aircrafts are able to communicate seamlessly with each other, I believe that a pilot in plane A would able to launch the missiles and bombs on Plane B.


Also the fact the aircraft only has 7 hard points is also not a disadvantage as 1 hard point can carry 2 bombs or missiles under the wing, so in theory, the aircraft can carry 12 bombs and missiles.

I also like the HOTAS feature of the aircraft, one more thing is the JF-17 is full fly by wire ( computer assisted with multiple redundancies).

Earlier models of the JF-17 were only fly by wire in 2 axis.


I think it's a fantastic platform for our needs, we need a full squadron strength of the aircraft, a minimum of 16 planes.

But 32 aircrafts won't be a bad idea.

Video brief of the JF-17.


Talking about the JF-17s data-link, air to air & air to ground capability, weapons hard point, targeting pod and designation, and HOTAS.


The Pilot refers to the JF-17 as a 4.5 generation aircraft, I don't agree with this, put the JF-17 is clearly a formidable aircraft.




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3FDrRnGyko