₦airaland Forum

Joshthefirst: ^^^
No. Man lost control and sin took over.
God gave man dominion.





I never knew you were aan atheist sir. When did you become one?

Apparently Man did not create nor control the universe, Man never had the architectural vision for the Universe, neither did he plan evil into it, therefore man isn't the Creator to question for the Evil in the Universe!

@Ola,

Man does not cause death nor hurricanes nor earthquakes etc, hence they are beyond Man.

OLAADEGBU: Did God blow it when He created humanity? What sort of tyrant must our Creator be if this was His master plan?

Sadly, many use the issue of suffering as an excuse to reject any thought of God, when its existence is the very reason we should accept Him. Suffering stands as terrible testimony to the truth of the explanation given by the Word of God.
But how can we know that the Bible is true?--simply by studying the prophecies of Matthew 24, Luke 21, and 2 Timothy 3. A few minutes of openhearted inspection will convince any honest skeptic that this is no ordinary book. It is the supernatural testament of our Creator about why there is suffering...and what we can do about it.

The Bible tells us that God cursed the earth because of Adam’s transgression. Weeds are a curse. So is disease. Sin and suffering cannot be separated. The Scriptures inform us that we live in a fallen creation. In the beginning, God created man perfect, and he lived in a perfect world without suffering. It was Heaven on earth. When sin came into the world, death and misery came with it. Those who understand the message of Holy Scripture eagerly await a new heavens and a new earth "wherein dwells righteousness." In that coming Kingdom there will be no more pain, suffering, disease, or death. We are told that no eye has ever seen, nor has any ear heard, neither has any man’s mind ever imagined the wonderful things that God has in store for those who love Him (see 1 Corinthians 2:9). Think for a moment what it would be like if food grew with the fervour of weeds. Consider how wonderful it would be if the deserts became incredibly fertile, if creation stopped devouring humanity. Imagine if the weather worked for us instead of against us, if disease completely disappeared, if pain was a thing of the past, if death was no more.

The dilemma is that we are like a child whose insatiable appetite for chocolate has caused his face to break out with ugly sores. He looks in the mirror and sees a sight that makes him depressed. But instead of giving up his beloved chocolate, he consoles himself by stuffing more into his mouth. Yet, the source of his pleasure is actually the cause of his suffering.

The whole face of the earth is nothing but ugly sores of suffering. Everywhere we look we see unspeakable pain. But instead of believing God’s explanation and asking Him to forgive us and change our appetite, we run deeper into sin’s sweet embrace. There we find solace in its temporal pleasures, thus intensifying our pain, both in this life and in the life to come. From, The Evidence Bible --> http:///1bEnd2s

By saying this, you imply God lost control and Sin took over! It is far from being Almighty.

OLAADEGBU: Evidence of Christ's resurrection:

The fact that Abraham Lincoln was born, became president, or was assassinated cannot be proven using scientific methods. To be scientific it must be repeatable (as in the testing of gravity). The proofs that Lincoln did exist and was a historical figure are:

1. the written evidence,
2. eyewitness testimony,
3. physical evidence that remains to this day at the Ford Theatre, birth records and newspaper articles regarding his election.

All these facts are acceptable in a court of law as proof to a judge and jury.

Garry T. Ansdell (D.D.) made a case out of this when he stated that "The resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead is evidential:

1. the empty tomb still exists,
2. His birth record is documented all the way back to Adam and Eve,
3. the four Gospels record His death;
4. the location, even the names of the political leaders who sentenced Him are historically recorded;
5. there were more than five hundred eyewitnesses who saw Jesus after the resurrection, recorded by the New Testament writers;
6. the very existence of the Christian faith, based on His death and resurrection;
7. the cultural and political evidence at the time, including the Roman calender separating all of time into Before Christ (B.C.) and in the year of our Lord (A.D.)."

Hmmm.

The physical evidence involved requires no forensic analysis? No general body of knowledge to refer to?! The physical evidence would not be self evident without being referred to common knowledge hence rendered scientific!

Anyway I'm interested in your case for Jesus.

Handling your court standard proofs. Your evidence for Jesus falls apart. Mainly from hearsay evidence.

1. The eyewitnesses testimonies suffer from hearsay

2. The so-call empty tomb is unidentified.

3. The Gospels lack coherence and harmony

4. The Gospels do not identify their sources.

Too many problems Ola.

@emusan

Why is evil necessary?!

damilarelr: If you 're really a believer you won't permit yourself to sin. Under Law you avoid sinning in order not to go to hell (because your salvation is strictly by your works), but under Grace, you detest sin because

1. you love God so much that you don't want to offend Him.
2. you appreciate the works of Christ on the cross, and
3. you have been empowered to live above ANY form of sin.

If only you can walk with the mentality of these 3 points, sin will become distasteful to you forever.

However, no matter how much one detests sin, one is still frail to it, since it is a fundamental part of man. So my question still stands, can a rapi.st, murderer, cannibal be believer inspite of detesting his sins?

@oP

Is it now permisssible for me to rape kill and destroy and yet be a believer?

OLAADEGBU: Study the soil for a moment. It naturally produces weeds. No one plants them; no one waters them. They even stubbornly push through cracks of a dry sidewalk. Millions of useless weeds sprout like there’s no tomorrow, strangling our crops and ruining our lawns. Pull them out by the roots, and there will be more tomorrow. They are nothing but a curse!

Consider how much of the earth is uninhabitable. There are millions of square miles of barren deserts in Africa and other parts of the world. Most of Australia is nothing but miles and miles of useless desolate land. Not only that, but the earth is constantly shaken with massive earthquakes. Its shores are lashed with hurricanes; tornadoes rip through creation with incredible fury; devastating floods soak the land; and terrible droughts parch the soil. Sharks, tigers, lions, snakes, spiders, and disease-carrying mosquitoes attack humanity and suck its life’s blood.

The earth’s inhabitants are afflicted with disease, pain, suffering, and death. Think of how many people are plagued with cancer, Alzheimer’s, multiple sclerosis, heart disease, emphysema, Parkinson’s, and a number of other debilitating illnesses. Consider all the children with leukemia, or people born with crippling diseases or without the mental capability to even feed themselves. All these things should convince rational minds that something is radically wrong.

Which will stand as proof against an Almighty Creator whose responsibility is Creation.

OLAADEGBU: Many years ago, a man jumped off a high bridge in an effort to end his life. Fortunately, he lived through the ordeal but broke his back as a result of the fall, and ended up in a wheelchair. His attempt to take his life caused a great deal of distress, to those in control of the bridge, to paramedics, to traffic, and especially to his family. Authorities wanted to press charges against him but they couldn't; since this was the city’s first suicide attempt, they had no law forbidding such an act. He escaped the consequences of the law of man, but suffered the painful consequences of breaking what is sometime called a law, the law of gravity.

In the same way, there was no prosecution by God from Adam to Moses. However, every person in Adam still sinned and therefore suffered the consequences of breaking the then unwritten moral Law—"the soul that sins, it shall die" (Ezekiel 18:4). Death reigned as king, with a dominion from Adam to Moses. They didn't partake from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil as did Adam, but they still sinned against God by violating the Ten Commandments.

First of all, the man in your story that eventually got crippled DID NOT break the law of gravity, in fact he obeyed by the mere fact he fell.

2. You seem to be claiming God did not create the Law, becauseif so and if the Law is uncreated, then God would in some way be bound to obey it.

Joshthefirst: the purpose of the law was to make men realize that they were sinners, and to convict them, and lead them toward the saving grace of our Lord Jesus Christ.

That every mouth may be stopped, and the world might stand guilty before almighty God.

Yet before the Law, there were no sinners. In the most honest truth, the Law created sinners out of man and God!

Rhymeyjohn: so you believe our world consist entirely of what we see, and any phenomenom see didnt see is authomatically false? so much for the atheist who think they are they wisest.

Mister, Jesus set himself as a physical example/proof of his resurrection, therefore we are entitled to such a privilege! The Bible justified the apostles' Faith via physical proof!

Besides I never said the physical is all there is. However physical proofs are the clearest and unequivocal proofs.

Rhymeyjohn: so you believe our world consist entirely of what we see, and any phenomenom see didnt see is authomatically false? so much for the atheist who think they are they wisest.

Mister, Jesus set himself as a physical example/proof of his resurrection, therefore we are entitled to such a privilege! The Bible justified the apostles' Faith via physical proof!

Besides I never said the physical is all there is.

Skeptics have good reasons not to believe then cos we haven't seen Jesus rise from the dead, so we are justified!

OLAADEGBU: Donald Robson Said: "A Christian does a good deed so that he can get into Heaven. An atheist does a good deed."

Ray Answers: The belief that anyone can do anything to get into Heaven is arguably the greatest of all errors. This mistake is made because of what the Bible calls a "lack of knowledge." Here's your missing knowledge. God is a judge. We are criminals in His eyes, and the best of us have violated His moral Law a multitude of times. He considers lust to be adultery, hatred to be murder, sees our thought life and will even hold us accountable for "every idle word." This knowledge changes everything. So if we offer God anything (good deeds, religious works, etc.,) in an attempt to have Him dismiss our case, we are trying to bribe the Judge, This is what the Bible says of that: "The sacrifice of the wicked is an abomination to the Lord." God will not be bribed. The only thing that can save us from His perfect justice, is His mercy. When Jesus suffered on the cross He took the sin of the world upon Himself. He paid our fine so that our case could be dismissed. All we need to do to receive mercy from God is repent and trust alone in Jesus. For further details on how to receive God's gift of everlasting life, see www.needGod.com

The question is: of what purpose is the Law if not to sustain Life?

OLAADEGBU: Typical questions of atheist wannabes.

"Why would a perfect God make a Hell in the first place? Why are His creations imperfect unless He deliberately made them so? Why make rules that are pretty much impossible to live up to then punish the creations for being simply the way they were 'created'? If there is a God [He] is not the loving creator that most christians say they believe in, it is at best a tinkerer, a trickster and a child who breaks his toys when he does not get his own way." Patricia Bentley-Ivens

If a dying patient turns off his own oxygen hose he shouldn't complain that he can't breathe. The Book of Genesis tells us that God made everything "very good" in the beginning, but sin brought about suffering, pain, disease and death in what is called a "fallen Creation." But the dying atheist denies that Genesis chapter one is true (that we live in a "fallen creation" because of sin), and so he bitterly complains about God allowing suffering, pain, disease and death. Hell is God's prison for guilty criminals. Calling Him childish names will not save you from His Justice, but repentance and faith in Jesus will. See www.needGod.com

However God is the source of Sin, he creates Law and therefore the shadow of Law -- Sin! Sin is any disobedience, free willed action contrary to God's wishes. God is responsible for the sins not man!

Yet what is the criteria for the Law?! What does the Law stand on?! Nothing!!

OLAADEGBU: When I look at a building, how do I know that there was a builder? I can’t see him, hear him, touch, taste, or smell him. Of course, the building is proof that there was a builder. In fact, I couldn't want better evidence that there was a builder than to have the building in front of me. I don’t need “faith” to know that there was a builder. All I need is eyes that can see and a brain that works.

Likewise, when I look at a painting, how can I know that there was a painter? Again, the painting is proof positive that there was a painter. I don’t need “faith” to believe in a painter because I can see the clear evidence. The same principle applies with the existence of God. When I look at creation, how can I know that the Creator exists? I can’t see Him, hear Him, touch Him, taste Him, or smell Him. How can I know that He exists? Why, creation shows me His existence. I couldn't want better proof that God exists than to have the creation in front of me. I don’t need faith to believe in a Creator; all I need is eyes that can see and a brain that works:

“For the invisible things of Him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse” (Romans 1:20).

If, however, I want the builder to do something for me, then I need to have faith in him. The same applies to God: “Without faith it is impossible to please Him: for He that comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of them that diligently seek Him” (Hebrews 11:6).

You have your brain to know He exists but you need faith if you are to have fellowship with Him.

Watch "Evolution Vs God" -> www.evolutionvsGod.com

As I have always said, complexity itself suggests a cause. A builder's complex mind conceives and creates a building, thereby the building is reflective of the mind. Same as God's mind in the creation of the complex Universe, it requires a creator too. However if you can conceive God's mind without a creator, so also the Universe.

Emusan: You never cease in asking this childish question. Can you once think outside creation?

God created you with an eyes to see but limits your vision to only physical things.

Do you think your limited brain can fully understand this God? In a thread "scientist talks about their faith" you're trying to say those born atheist later converted to Christian are deluded. Now if some atheist born scientist converted to christianity and some christian born person/a pastor later missed the road, why can't you ask yourself this simple and very deep heart searching question. Why is it so or what is the missing link? Think about it Bro.

Shalom!

This is sufficient admission that you don't understand God because he is beyond your comprehension. Very fatal for you, because you are misdirected by your lack of comprehension of God and your proofs for God's existence are nothing!

OLAADEGBU: An atheist wrote: "Strong circumstantial evidence that there is no god. Number of god's creations who died horrible deaths from the following diseases: (or did they all die as martyrs?)

1. 300,000,000 approx. Smallpox
2. 200,000,000? Measles
3. 100,000,000 approx. Black Death
4. 80,000,000-250,000,000 Malaria
5. 50,000,000-100,000,000 Spanish Flu
6. 40,000,000-100,000,000 Plague of Justinian
7. 40,000,000-100,000,000 Tuberculosis
8. 30,000,000[13] AIDS pandemic
9. 12,000,000 ? Third Pandemic of Bubonic Plague
10. 5,000,000 Antonine Plague
11. 4,000,000 Asian Flu
12. 250,000 or more annually Seasonal influenza."

Ray replied: The number of people who are now living that will eventually die. Every one of the seven billion. That's more than strong circumstantial evidence that God means what He says is His Word: "The souls that sins, it shall die," "It is appointed to man once to die. After this, the Judgment." Pain, suffering, disease and death are stark proofs that the Bible is the Word of God when it says we live in a "fallen" creation.

Watch "Evolution Vs God" Free -> www.EvolutionVsGod.com

However it begs the question - a question you cannot answer - why all these evils in the first place? Except Evil is a shadow of God.

OLAADEGBU: Without the Law of God (the Ten Commandments) humanity predictably strays into "idolatry" (atheism is a form of idolatry). The First of the Ten Commandments addresses this with "I am The Lord your God. You shall have no other God's before Me." When Israel waited at the foot of Mount Sinai for Moses to receive that Law, like a car with a blowout of a front tire at 70 MPH, they veered off the right path into idolatry, and the immediate result was that they took their clothes off and partied. Thus we have Law-less modern America. They have lost sight of the moral Law, have predictably taken off their clothes and partied. If we believe that there's no Law, then there's no morality. However the Law was written in stone for a reason. It's permanent. It will be the unwavering standard of judgment on Judgment Day (see Romans 2:12, James 2:12) and will justly damn those who transgress its perfect precepts.

www.needgod.com

God in creating the 1st Commandment does not rely on a pre existing moral norm rather creates a new moral order entirely based on his Will! Hence there is no natural conviction that the 1st commandment is indeed a moral rule that applies to all humans.


2. The 10 Commandments are primitive and naïve laws. Why? It fails to understand that the intentions, motives behind actions are the true roots of an action and against such morality be weighed. Evidently there are scenarios where the 10 Commandments would appear unjust and unfair.

Examples:

Self defence as against "thou shall not kill"

Diplomats that lied and stole to save Jews from the Holocaust, also by disobeying their home countries.

Abraham lying to the Pharoah to save his life etc!

striktlymi: In the sense that there is nothing like life without God. Check my OP...God is life itself.

I'm talking about meaning of life

OLAADEGBU: The Omniscient God had foreknowledge of Pharaoh's reaction when He said "I will harden Pharaoh's heart...." And before you hastily jump to conclusion that God allowed Pharaoh's heart to be hardened, you should ask yourself of what substance was Pharaoh's heart made of? Pharaoh was full of pride and contempt for God's word and will just as you "atheists" wannabe" do. You should also compare Pharaoh with Moses and Aaron and see that these men of God believed, were persuaded and obedient to God which was in sharp contrast to that of Pharaoh.

Pharaoh wasn't predestined for destruction. Neither is anyone. Everybody is created a free moral agent who has a right of choice. Whatever we choose comes from our own individual volition.

To avoid the dire state of hardness of heart like that of Pharaoh's, you must tremble and obey God whenever He challenges you to do so because the human heart is constantly resistant to God's word and delights in sin. When you are obstinate God then permits your heart to become insensitive and hardened.

Therefore, don't ignore God's promptings to believe and obey Him and avoid rejecting God's word to suit your selfish sinful lifestyle. Let a change take place in your heart today as you repent and pray now before it gets too late like it was for Pharaoh.

If the Omniscient God had knowledge of the Pharoah's mind, why did he bother hardening it, if it was hardened?!

In another breath, you said the Pharoah allowed God to harden his heart, and yet you insisting before that God didn't harden the pharoah's heart! Which are you saying?!

Ajibam: cos sex is designed for married people

If sex is designed for married people, why do unmarried ppl have the sexual urge to satisfy? Why is it that our physiology does not respect the marriage institution, we have sexual urges at ages of puberty

Rhymeyjohn: Atheists are those who believe there is no God/god. It takes an omniscient ability to entirely say 'there is not God/god', no atheist has this ability .It rather shows atheism as a believe system, just like many others. Atheists, if you have the chance to ask GOD one serious question, what would that be? ask here

This is the typical lazy theist opening post. Can you look for a Magoi and find it?! You dodge the natural responsibilities of proving who God is, and leaving no reasonable doubts. The manner in which you speak of God (rightly Jehovah) does not distinguish him from other religios' deities.

It is after you prove the existence of Jehovah (a very difficult task) before atheists can dismiss your proofs.

Ukuts gp: In my opinion, the most common sin in the world is the sin of fornication and adultery(sexual sin) which the devil has used to draw men, women, boys and girls far from God. In ur opinion what is d most common sin today.

Why should consensual sex outside a marriage be a sin

striktlymi: I don't think you got a grasp of what I agreed with.

You agreed Life on its own (without God) is meaningless.

OLAADEGBU: Those visions backed up with the Scriptures were legitimate scare tactics to scare the hell out of you. You guys are so scared of hell that you now figure that by believing God doesn't exist your nightmares would disappear. Your case reminds me of another story.

A man was driving to work when a lorry drove through a stop sign, hit his car broadside, and knocked him out.  Passers-by pulled him from the wreck and revived him.  He began a terrific struggle and had to be tranquillised by the paramedics.

Later, when he came to and was calm, they asked him why he struggled so much.  He said:

"I remember the impact, then nothing.  I woke up on a concrete slab in front of a huge, flashing 'Shell' sign.  And somebody was standing in front of the S." 

How do we know the Scriptures are true?!

OLAADEGBU: Didn't you get it? The sun that melts the wax is the same sun that hardens the clay, it is no fault of the sun it all depends on the substance exposed to the sun.

The same principle goes for hardness of heart, which comes on a person in a process of time as he rejects God's word. The same word of God that brings mercy and miracles to the obedient hearer, is the same word that brings misery and misfortune upon the contumacious hearer, just as Pharaoh got to find out.

Your antecdote doesn't follow. "The Lord hardened his heart" has nothing to do with rewards of fortune or punishment of misery, rather it tampers with free will of the individual. The pharoah could have changed his mind, but God maliciously removes such an opportunity for the Pharoah.

Had the Pharoah had his freewill and his actions lead to the Red Sea debacle, then we can justify his misfortune, however God did what he wanted to do.

dejilg: Oh look at me! Am a computer and I happened by chance/accident, wen d plastic industry, chemical lab and the black smith's workplace suddenly blow and mix together! And my friend is dictionary because the ink in d printing press exploded on the paper! ---- Evolution crap!

Is your argument that all order is made possible ONLY by a mind?!

Or that only highly complex order is made possible ONLY by a mind?!

dejilg: Well so far as all you have said, its based on the assumptions that it takes millions of years to evolve! More faith is required to believe such tale!

Therefore the theory of evolution is logically valid. The assumptions are not absolute, thus no article of faith is required.

striktlymi: Nah mehn! You only want to make yourself believe that.

Noo, a valid conclusion from the premises you agreed to. If Life is nihilistic, the least man can do is provide a shelter from such nihilistic doom, is to invent a solution. Also we can conclude that man has a natural yearn to release himself from nihilistic doom. Thus a motive to create God.

God the only means to find meaning.

striktlymi: In that sense Christianity does not reject every beliefs or sense of morality. To the one 'exposed' to the Christian way by 'revelation', yes you prbably are right but when it comes to one who knows 'nothing' of the Christian way then your thoughts are quite incorrect.

#Life indeed would have no meaning without God because he is life.

Hence there lies a motive to invent God, a psychological demand to make out of existence sanity.

dejilg: some ppl and d shit they say by believin in d "evolution" crap...so humans have been the only evovled species or "fossils" from ever since the "big bang"? How many billion years was that? Now someone is telling us that ever since, the other "non evolved" "analytically-less minded" animals have been doomed to not been able to "anthropologically highly evolved" and "equipped with → an analytical mind"...seems someone has paused evolution ever since...!!! shame on darwinism! Even the experiment he performed with his offsprings, failed!

There is a problem with your stance, the theory of Evolution is not the truth or the absolute knowledge or scientific scripture, rather an understanding of the facts scattered around. It is an holistic interpretation of the facts we have so far collected.

The first assumption, the theory of evolution makes is that IF several species have substantial similarities, then there exists a relationship between them, they likely originate from a common source or ancestor.

2nd assumption is that species do not live forever, that at some points new species emerge, therefore responsible for the diversity of life.

And so far the facts appear to fit, yet it will be a ridiculous argument (such as yours) to claim humans haven't turned to something else, when the evolution proponents claim it takes millions of years for such changes.

^^^

And where did the free will fly to?! If God deliberately turns our minds against him, why should such sinners be held for acts not of their freewill?!