₦airaland Forum

As much as I find season 8 beyond disappointing, I wouldn't go as far as calling Weiss and Beniof "woefully incompetent".

George Martin is a master in his craft; his ASOIAF books are simply peerless, so there's honestly no way the quality of the show would not have gone down when D& ran out of Martin's books. Of course, this knowledge doesn't make watching season8 any less awful, but at least it helps put the awfulness in perspective: D& really did do their best.

Take any of the 2 main "set pieces" and look at them as a stand-alone: the Battle of Winterfell, and the Battle (or should we say the Massacre) of Kings Landing. By themselves, these two events were excellent in choreography, camera work, special effects, and cinematic directing (I will leave out dialogue/scripting for obvious reasons). The problem only shows up when you look at the bigger picture: continuity and storyline-development.

My point with all this grammar is this: yes, season8 is awful, but I would not blame D& so much. I honestly doubt anyone could do better without GRR Martin's source material.

And by the way, a remake is never going to happen. Too expensive.

LeSulk:
I thought he was gone there and then. I salute your analysis and your use of medical jargon but even a medical illiterate like me knows he shouldn't be in a fit state to keep walking after that fight, let alone look for Cersei round the Red Keep.

Arya's plot armor in the last episode was legendary. The only other Stark I've seen with an armor that can rival hers is Tony.
.

I couldn't resist...

@sexiestharam
It's been 7 years... Did the deworming suggestion work?

The lion does not concern himself with the opinions of sheep.
- Lord Tywin Lannister

When the snows fall and the white winds blow, the lone wolf dies but the pack survives.
- Lord Eddard Stark

Never forget what you are; the rest of the world will not. Wear it like armour, and it will never be used to hurt you.
- Tyrion Lannister

Rhaegar fought valiantly, Rhaegar fought nobly, Rhaegar fought honourably. And Rhaegar died.
- Ser Jorah Mormont

You're a talker. Listening to talkers makes me thirsty... And hungry. I think I'll take two chickens.
- Sandor "The Hound" Clegane

There is only one god, and his name is Death. And there is only one thing we say to Death: 'Not today.'
- Syrio Forel, First Sword of Braavos

Gbola5:
The Northerners call him 'the Ned'. a sign of respect. Wildlings call Mance Rayder 'the Mance'. It's how they refer to their Lords. I call him that showing my respects.

Good for you, Gbola5. Good for you.


I think this will be my last post on this thread. The show has become too illogical for me...
Quite a lot I wish to say, but what's the use? Sandor Clegane would just snicker and call me a "talker".

Goodbye.

ChristineC:
there's still a small matter of Yara's Ironfleet and the remaining second sons' troop left behind in Astapor/Yunkai.
The Dornish soldiers are also willing allies as Tyrion said during the strategy meetings.

Forget it. It doesn't matter who has the greater forces or whatever; the only thing that matters is who the show producers want to win. If Bronn can gallivant past Riverrun and Moat Cailin and into Winterfell toting a loaded crossbow, and then gallivant out again... If Samwell Tarly was brought down by 6 wights and yet somehow managed not to die... If Euron sitting like a duck on his ships somehow managed to bring down a fully grown dragon with a "scorpion" and not lose even 1 man...

If all this can happen, then you shouldn't bother trying to guess anything logically. D & D will eventually do whatever they want; people like me who don't like it can go and kill ourselves.

Endy10:
This episode messed me up real good. Didn't see that coming.

When that scorpion hit, did anybody deep down hope it was just a bad dream... Effect of Nigerian film

The Scorpion should never have hit.

I'm trying real hard to accept that the show producers are doing their best, but I dunno... Listen, it is practically IMPOSSIBLE to shoot at anything in the air without being seen; Euron would have to see the dragons first, then take aim before even firing. Yet somehow Dany and her dragons - who are already prepared for a siege oo! - never saw those ships, ships sitting still like ducks in water.

Gbola5:
Robert maybe. The Ned not so much. He was a better commander.

Why do you call him "The Ned"?

Uyiii:
Someone should answer this question now, maybe it'll help stop the arguments in this regard.

Question: What would have happened if the NK killed the three-eyed raven??!

Bran and Samwell has already given us an insight as to what it means but it seems some chaps still don't get it. So I really want to know and get an answer from this thread!

Based on the direction the show has taken, absolutely nothing would change. As Bran is portrayed up to present in the show, if the NK had managed to kill him and then Arya killed the NK afterwards, nothing at all would change - the Citadel is still standing. The show's choice of portraying the Three Eyed-Raven as "the memory of mankind" is almost inconsequential, unless (I hope) there is something more that the producers still intend to reveal. Otherwise, as someone here has already opined, very little would have changed in the entire plot if Bran had died from his fall back in Season 1, and I agree.

Bran's status in the books is a whole lot more critical and crucial. He is probably the most important character. The book series are actually titled "A Song of Ice And Fire"; more than anything it tells you the Seven Kingdoms' bickerings over the Iron Throne (which the TV show is currently implying to be the MAIN event) is actually just a side-show.

But of course this thread is about the show and not the books, so let's stick to it.

Seun:
This lady figured out the issues with the battle plan before the episode aired. "The first rule of defending a castle is to stay inside the castle"

So many glaring plot holes, plenty cringe-worthy out-of-character decisions/behaviours, ridiculous reversal of already established "in-world" physical laws... I could go on and on. But I just remind myself that the show runners are really doing their utmost best since Season5 to sustain a grand tale that the renowned author has been unable to finish. And then you watch that 40-min Behind-the-Scenes video and see how much effort and dedication they put into this...

So I just enjoy it the way it is. I'm still hoping Episode 4 holds some surprises, though.

Javanian:
QUICK QUESTION

As at S08e03 which we have just seen, If Bran Stark had died when Jaime Lannister pushed him in S01e01 would anything have turned out differently? Is there any significant part of the story so far that would have played out differently? Other than helping Sam figure out Jon's parentage what else would have been different?

Any takers?

With the story so far, nothing really significant...

Catelyn would not have gone south, and Tyrion would not have been kidnapped, but that doesn't change much. Ned would have still moved against Cercei and still lose his head. The North would have still rebelled and Tywin would still ravage the Riverlands via Gregor Clagane. Catelyn would have still died during Theon's sack of Winterfell, and Tyrion would still have done everything pre- and post- Battle of Blackwater bay. The Brotherhood would most likely still have occurred, although perhaps without Beric Dondarrion.

So basically, no major plot change. But then, this is all based on the story so far; Season 8: Episodes 4, 5, & 6 are still to come, and completely shrouded in mystery.

D-&-D have been winging it since they ran out of ASOIAF material in late season 5 - that's the cause of the many plot holes you've been seeing since then. But they did receive pointers of how the story would end from GRRM himself, and there is no way will GRRM end this tale with Bran's arc this haphazard.

So get yourself a bottle of JW's White Walker, and prepare to be entertained next week.

Magnifico2000:
The people I admire on this thread and I'm gonna miss after the show are as follows. *Sobs*

Seun
Ksillib
Gman365
Meforkene
Aryasand
Yonce
Cybertext
Kay9

Add yours.

Don't say
"We've come now to the end";
White shores are calling,
You and I will meet again.

(Annie Lennox - Into the West)

Ksslib:
.

Sigh.....

High in the halls
Of his faves who are gone
Ksslib will dance with his ghosts
the ones he had lost
the ones he had loved the most

You, my friend, are a very funny man.

simi4me:
Am satisfied with this episode but how the prophecy was fulfilled is what I don't understand.

I think you have just managed to put in words my gut-feeling reason for thinking that we have not seen the last of this #Winter.

The prophecy has not been fulfilled.

Episode 4 will surprise lots of people.

Yonce:
All I have to say is Bad Writing.

I mean they built the Night King story arc for 8 seasons Kept remindinf us that "Winter is Coming"
Made Bran and the Night King have an intense face off and played battle music making us anticipate what the Night King was going to do to Bran, or maybe he'll tell us his motive and bam! They took it away in 5 seconds flat.
Is this is Winter that is supposed to come?

I have no evidence, but I strongly suspect Bran and the NK are not quite done with each other. Yes, I saw him explode into ice, but I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

The only thing I honestly did not expect were the deaths(?) of Rhaegal and Ghost?

simi4me:
The prophecy said "a long night is coming, only the prince/princess that was promised will bring the dawn"
Arya killed the night king, does that mean that she is the prince/princess that was promised?

Good question. I'll be interested in how the show resolves that. I suspect we have not seen the last of this Long Night.

True, some of the decisions taken by some characters (and the subsequent results) were a little underwhelming, while some others were truly top-notch GoT cool. Overall, I really enjoyed Episode 3 as it was, plot holes and all, and it was fun. I expect the show producers to surprise me in Episode 4.

In the mean time, my Johnny Walker White Walker chilling on ice waiting for Episode 3.

#WinterIsHere.

LeSulk:
The only people fighting for the Ned's children are the Northerners (and not even all of them) . Many Westerosi view Ned Stark as an usurper (he confessed to that). He died without 'honor'.
We like the Starks because we know the 'behind the scenes', the characters do not. Only the few who managed to connect the dots are reluctantly changing their POV.
Tywin on the other hand died with 'honor'. He was killed by his dwarf son who had already killed the king. The people who rejoiced at his death were those who stood to gain from a weakened House Lannister . They (eg Tyrells) knew that Kevan and Cersei couldn't fill the void.
We know the truth behind all this but once again the characters do not.
GoT mirrors real life. Those politicians we view as bad may actually be the good ones.

Couldn't have said it better.

I believe I understand what @Gbola5 is trying to say though: that Eddard Stark was a better ruler than Tywin Lannister. And to that I say, WRONG.

Tywin was a terrible man, and a seriously incompetent father. But he was an excellent ruler - as a ruler, you simply cannot afford to have a soft heart. Tywin's results speak for themselves, while Ned got himself outsmarted right under his own nose. Seriously, can you imagine Tywin being outplayed like Ned was?? That is what I mean: the smarts to be a successful ruler.

Thus my statement: I'll rather have a mixture of those two men; Ned for how he managed his home, and Tywin for how he "ruled" the Westerlands (later as Reagent to Joffrey). Ruling is an art, and in the Game of Thrones setting Tywin scores much higher than Ned in rulership.

Yonce:
A monster? Yes.
A formidable warrior and master planner in his youth? Definitely.
Tywin is a legend. . .he rebuilt the Lannister name.
The only wrong he did I can't forgive was how he treated Tyrion.

Someone finally sees what I mean. Respect, sister.

Guys, listen: Come the story, comes the man. Yes, I do not deny that Jon Snow is the best to follow with comic of the Night King. But if we are talking "rulership", not even Ned Stark holds a candle to the great Tywin.

larride:
I don’t know about the book but in the TV series. Jon Snow is head and shoulder above everyone in the series when it comes to choosing someone as role model.

Jon is portrayed like a saint. Everyone keep saying he knows nothing because he act so pure. Jon was killed by his brothers of the night watch because he allow the free-folks south of the wall (the right thing to do by the way). If not anything the scene in Kings Landing when they went to meet Cersei settled the issue. Yes, the night King is coming. Yes, winter is here. Yes, they need as many armies as they can get but Jon will rather tell Cersei the truth than to lie and backstab her later.

Do you even know why everyone Jon has met loves him and want him to lead? Man does not concern himself with titles or want no throne, he just want to do the right thing and fight for his people.

Jon Snow? Not me. Jon Snow inspires loyalty, no doubt, but so did Robb Stark - even grandfathers seasoned in war and lordship followed the Young Wolf. And what did he do? Let his honour and emotions take over his head. Exactly same as Jon Snow.

I will rather have a mixture of Tywin Lannister and Ned Stark. At least Ned's only weakness was his honour, he never let his emotions overrule his reasoning.

larride:
I don’t know about the book but in the TV series. Jon Snow is head and shoulder above everyone in the series when it comes to choosing someone as role model.

Jon is portrayed like a saint. Everyone keep saying he knows nothing because he act so pure. Jon was killed by his brothers of the night watch because he allow the free-folks south of the wall (the right thing to do by the way). If not anything the scene in Kings Landing when they went to meet Cersei settled the issue. Yes, the night King is coming. Yes, winter is here. Yes, they need as many armies as they can get but Jon will rather tell Cersei the truth than to lie and backstab her later.

Do you even know why everyone Jon has met loves him and want him to lead? Man does not concern himself with titles or want no throne, he just want to do the right thing and fight for his people.

Jon Snow? Not me. Jon Snow inspires loyalty, no doubt, but so did Robb Stark - even grandfathers seasoned in war and lordship followed the Young Wolf. And what did he do? Let his honour and emotions take over his head. Exactly same as Jon Snow.

I will rather have a mixture of Tywin Lannister and Ned Stark.

Gbola5:
Tywin ? He's a monster.

He was. And yet he singlehandedly saved his family from becoming a complete laughing-stock throughout the Seven Kingdoms, and made it into the most formidable House in all of Westeros. And then, of course, Cercei trashed it all after his death.

Tywin was certainly not a "good" man, and even worse father. He was ruthless and merciless. But he was fair to loyal subordinates, and put his family above all else. Tywin Lannister was the textbook example of how to rule, emphasis on the word RULE.

A side thought:

If Joffrey hadn't beheaded Ned Stark but sent him to the Wall as planned, it would have been Ned elected the next Commander after Joer Mormont's death, instead of Jon Snow. Wouldn't that have been something?

echibuogwu:
you are a bit wrong. Ned Stark didn’t believe the story the guy told , If Ned Stark had believed him he wouldn’t have murdered him.

The penalty for desertion in the Night's Watch is death. If you are caught by the Starks, it's death by beheading; if you are caught and sent back to the Watch, it's death by hanging. No question at all.

The reason for this is because the majority Watch are drawn from people who are already condemned - nobles convicted of treason or some such accusation; common folk caught stealing or robbing or raping or a host of other crimes - many wrongly accused or unfairly judged. But whichever, the choice was always death or life imprisonment for these people, or join the Night's Watch... and they chose the Watch. So their crime (or "crime" is forgiven in exchange for spending the rest of their lives at the Wall (Ned Stark was supposed to get this after confessing treason, but little sh!t Joffrey beheaded him instead).

So imagine such convicted criminals deserting their posts at the Watch... Once caught, it is straight death. And that, my friend, is why Ned Stark beheaded that deserter. It had nothing to do with his story.

trustbaba:
some people will just be saying what they don't even understand.. seriously the most outstanding character is this movie is Jon and is worthy of emulation to the highest degree. All other characters fight for the throne including dany, but he fight for the people not the throne. he doesn't like ruling but he is born to rule.. he is the most humble in the series, and not proud like u expect him to be. And also u need to understand the situation at hand, he just learnt that he is dating his nephew... you should know what that means... so I don't know what ur balbing about. you know nothing lilbest4

It's a TV show, not a movie. And no, they are not the same thing.

In my opinion, the character most worthy of emulation was Tywin Lannister. Apart from the unfortunate blind-eye he turned to the incest between his children, his every other action is a textbook for how a real man ought to think, talk, and act.

echibuogwu:
And wildlings... white walkers and the undead were considered as rumor by almost all

Fighting "wildlings" was an afterthought, mostly because the free-folk started raiding south of the Wall and warring with the Starks. But after thousands of years without anyone seeing a White Walker, most everyone forgot the real purpose of the Night's Watch and believed it was meant just to fight wildlings.

The Rangers of the Night's Watch actually had a cordial relationship with the more peaceful free-folks.

Magnifico2000:
I salute your intelligence. But I feel you can also look at it from another perspective.
Jon snow may decide to pardon the deserter as he is also a deserter from the nightswatch.
He might want to ask him the reasons for deserting if it is genuine.

Jon Snow is not a deserter. Men of the Night's Watch are sworn for life until they die.

Extract from the Oath of the Night's Watch:
Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death. I shall take no wife, hold no lands, father no children. I shall wear no crowns and win no glory. I shall live and die at my post....

Jon lived and died at his post. The last sentence uttered whenever a Black Brother is being buried/cremated: And now his watch has ended. Jon's watch ended the night he was murdered.

oyetpel:
Very true, the story of white walkers then was like a rumour, myth or legend.

So even Ned couldn't believe him and had to cut his head off for desertion.

You forget that the reason for the Night's Watch is to guard the realms of Men... from White Walkers and the undead.

Isomerizm:
He wouldn't. If Ned himself had met, one on one with a walker before that execution, he wouldn't have decapitated that deserter.

Wrong. See bolded below:

See, joining the Night's Watch is a VOW, and the penalty for breaking that vow is death. Once you become a Sworn Brother, your life is already forfeit. Ned Stark didn't behead that deserter in Season1 because he didn't believe his story; he beheaded him because he deserted the Night's Watch.

Magnifico2000:
Let's rub minds.

Do you think Jon Snow as the warden of the North would behead a deserter from the Nightswatch?
Let's assume that the night King is not coming anytime soon.

If yes. Why?
If no. What are your reasons?

Jon would behead him. Jon would behead ANY deserter of the Night's Watch. As a matter of fact, every Northern Lord will either behead the Night's Watch deserter, or send him back to the Starks or to the Wall to be beheaded (although the Crows were a bit lenient with that law amongst themselves; they didn't charge one a deserter unless it was clear the person had no intention of ever coming back - remember when Jon tried riding away to Winterfell after hearing about the Red Wedding..)

See, joining the Night's Watch is a VOW, and the penalty for breaking that vow is death. Once you become a Sworn Brother, your life is already forfeit. Ned Stark didn't behead that deserter in Season1 because he didn't believe his story; he beheaded him because he deserted the Night's Watch.