₦airaland Forum

  @wumine

@luridguy ,
You really crack me up; well, boyz will always be boyz.

PART 1:
I will try to summarise this as much as I can without going too deep or theological as you put it.

2 Kings 2:11 "And Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven."

The hebrew word shamiyim translated heaven in this verse simply means sky and was not used to refer to God's realm/abode. You know when you say "heavens" in this present time, metaphorically, you mean sky and not where God dwells; It is same way that it was used in the original hebrew language in the 2kings.

John 3:13 "No man hath ascended up to heaven but he that came down from heaven, , the Son of Man."
In this part of the scripture however, the greek word used here is ouranos which can also mean sky but if you look further down this chapter in verse 27 John answered, "A man can receive nothing, unless it has been given him from heaven, the word used here again was ouranos, which on systematic study of the context in which it was used, you'd agree that he was refering to Heaven (God's abode). You'd therefore agree with me that the word ouranos implies much more than shamiyim does. (Like I said, I am trying not to go too deep in theology and history because the time of writing comes to play also).


Gen. 5:24 Enoch walked with God; then he was no more, because God took him away.

The bible does not explicitly say where Enoch went (although most people assume he went to heaven) and as such there is no debate about this verse however I will like to draw your attention to 1 Cor. 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. Since Enoch and Elijah were both corrupt flesh and blood, it follows that they can not inherit the kingdom of Heaven; they were simply taken away, Elijah into the physical sky, Enoch to an unspecified place. We do not know what their current state is._{This is one part of the clarification (Theological part)}

@ Ugonna,
Anyone who knows about this subject knows it is a very deep subject. I am taking time not only because of the time constriant on me (due to circular workload) but also to pray for wisdom in sharing the little knowledge I have as it will involve some sort of analysis.
I will create the time to explain it later, aii? But if you may ask my opinion, don't disturb your head over this as it won't prevent you from making heaven which is the ultimate goal, abi?

goodguy,
Can you please quote me where I told you that it was impossible for a statue to bleed? I guess you are confusing me with someone else. I remember I have stated a number of times that i don't care if the statue is sweating, peeing, etc,  (I don't want to keep repeating myself).    And please could you tell me the instance you pointed out? I think you've lost me here as I can't remember anywhere in my bible where a statue was bleeding or[i] perhaps you didn't express what you meant by your previous statement well.[/i] Anywhich way it is, kindly clarify things for me so that I wouldn't be confused as you said. 
And I stand to be corrected was the Brazen snake bleeding?  I really don't get the logic of your argument or the point you are trying to make by the post above. We are here to rub mind and not to prove that one can argue. When it comes 2 discussing issues that bother around the intrisic values of life, there is no winner or loser. It is left for the readers/listeners to decide their fate or the school of thot they'd follow. 

_{p.s,
I may be inactive for some time}

Ugonna my pally!
God is omniscient. Workload does not permit me to expound on this subject but I am glad you are asking very good questions which in actual fact are the foundation of our belief in GOD.
The portion of the Bible which you talk about is John 3:13 "And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that
came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven." You are right to some extent within the limitation of the english language. For you to understand this better, you may have to go back to your roots.
I will create time to explain 2row, aii?    (I pray God gives me the wisdom to make you understand what I am saying)

@ elampiro,
Thank you very much. Atleast you are the first catholic to note that God asked them to look and not that He asked them to worship it. If you look at my previous post, you'd notice that the snake was destroyed because they idolised it just the way you guys are idolising angels and saints.
By the way, did you study the teachings of Jesus very well? If you did, you'd notice that every single thing that Jesus did had backing in the old testament which was why He was always saying He came to fulfill the scriptures. The Jews just didn't want to accept this truth but my brother, tell me, where is the backing for the idols you worship in the Roman Catholic Church? 

_{P.S,
The reason why it seems I am fighting you guys is that I made a promise to bring as many people as God permits to God even if the cost is my life}.

@goodguy,
Why do you guys keep using Moses and the snake as your cover for idolatry? Did God ask the children of the Isreal to worship the snake? The instruction he gave concerning the snake was explicit ; Numbers 21. HE told moses that if anyone of the children of Isreal was bitten by a snake, all he had to do was look at the snake (HE didn't say they should worship the snake) but just like the catholics are worshiping IDOLS in the name of honouring and remembering saints, the children of Isreal were doing same by burning Incense to the brass snake which moses had made, so God used king Hezekiah to bring an end to such nonsense; this can be found in 2kings 18:3-4 :-  " 3.He did what was right in the eyes of the LORD, just as his father David had done. 4. He removed the high places, smashed the sacred stones and cut down the Asherah poles. 4. He broke into pieces the bronze snake Moses had made, for up to that time the Israelites had been burning incense to it. (It was called Nehushtan.) . So tell me, what is the basis of your argument?

If you decide to be stubborn, it is upto you and please know that your blood is on your head as I have made efforts to tell you all that idolatry (in any form) is not allowed in the house of God.

@elampiro,
your  line of argument cracks me up  . I reserve my other statements.Can you do me the favour of sending me one of those statues so that I can break it to bits before your eyes? NONSENSE!!! Idolatry in the name of religion and under the auspices of Christianity . Let me re-emphasise this: Roman Catholicism is a RELIGION but Christianity is a WAY OF LIFE.


@Seun,
E be like say you be catholic or muslim, either way, i don't care how many times you ban me; I will continually speak the truth.  

@ Ugonna0071,
Why are you so particular abt "the so called Mary" ? Is she sacred? Are those statues that you worship sacred? Tell me so that I'll be able to mind my speeches here. You better educate me now before I commit a taboo  . _{Hmmm, where have you been?}

@ IRORO,
How far now? I no even understand wetin all these guys dey yan again. Where did we stop sef before SEUN decided to play GOD and banned me for a very scrupulous reason? Ok, I remember; I wanted you to know that I didn't find your statement rude in any way but how do you propose to take me to warri (I am still very interested in warri you know  )? And em em em, will you still be in France by November?  'Becos my present itinerary indicates I will be in France by November (off-topic).
Seriously speaking, I thot we were meant to rub minds in these forums? It is becoming something else. Abeg, join me in begging these guys to stop arguing about money and concentrate on statues being worshipped in the catholic church.

@4get_me,
You did a very good job while I was serving the sentence metted upon me by SEUN, I am actually on parole.


@giggette,
My flabber was gasted when I read some of your statements. Yoruba will say : "pelepele  o o o".

@ Nairalanders,
Just wanted to say it was nice meeting you all as I may be off nairaland for sometime due to pressing work load. Take care and God bless you all .

I thot my DADDY told you already? So,do you really wanna find out?

@ Ugonna,
Enough about statues. Where did we stop? I remember, I said you were a fine babe, abi ?  (off-topic).


@ Goodguy,
Abeg sir, stop calling me pastor.I no do shakara, na beg I dey beg o oo

@ Jaybaby
What do you mean by : "80% of men are impotent"  ?

@ gigitte,
Hmmmm, I can see you are a bit knowledgeable in Church history but you are mixing certain things up and placing them wrongly (perhaps, whoever informed you , gave you wrong info). For instance you got the whole Martin Luther thing wrong because he didn't remove it like you passionately said but sandwiched it between the old and the new testament but with this preface: "Apocrypha--that is, books which are not regarded as equal to the holy Scriputres, and yet are profitable and good to read."

Since you seem to be on the research side, My sincere advise is for you to look deep into how the Roman Catholic Church came to be the church that it is today. Why is it called the Roman Catholic Church and not just the catholic Church? Why is Roman Catholicism a religion and not a way of life like christianity? When did Roman catholicism begin?Who are Clement of Alexandria (150-217 A.D.), Jerome (340-420 A.D.) & Augustine (354-420 A.D.),? What was the main objective of the THE COUNCIL OF TRENT ? Why did Tyndale (1525 A.D.) Coverdale (1535 A.D.) place the apocryphas by themselves as "uninspired" ? Why and when were the apocryphas introduced and why and when were they removed. Why did the protestants pull out of the Roman Catholic Church? Are their reasons justified? I could add more to the lists but this will be a good start and as you getting deeper, all other things will fit in.Find out this things without prejudice but rather with the hunger of finding the truth. This is a forum for rubbing minds and as such it will be very unwise to go very deep.
Can you show me a place in the canon where it is written that saints can make intercessions for you?

I don't know where you guys get this your idea of dead saints interceding for living souls all I know is that which is written Romans 8:34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. I will be more than glad to pray through saints if you could show me where it is written in the bible that saints intercedes for the living (I am here to learn)
I am a proud catholic. But what is the difference between me and you? I am catholic but you are Roman Catholic (that is the difference).

No church is perfect rather the church is still marching towards perfection and with this, I will hold my peace as I will say no more.

Hmmmm

I have my source girl and believe you me, my source don't lie.    (Take it or return it)

@ Nilla,
I know ni. It is not just a factual saying but a truthful saying. Are denying your beauty?

@Mochafella,
Mind your biz, 3 is a crowd you know ( teasing)  

@ Nilla,
Was talking to the muslims in my 1st post. was responding to Havila's call for caution amongst us christians by my 2nd post and now, I am talking to you. Get it?

P.S,
What is a fine chick like you doing on nairaland?

Ugonna,
You seem to miss my points but let me just give you a hint to one of my points :

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/688537.stm

DAVID, please ask them o o o o

@ Belotti,
Let me ask you something. Was the quotation made by the pope wrong or simply expository of Islam?

@ Rhea,
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, You are one of the few muslims I respect. I would however be happier if you could acccept JESUS CHRIST as your lord and saviour.


P.S,
Is dat really you?

I am a christian fanatic myself but I don't want the anihilation of muslims rather that they get saved and accept JESUS as their Lord and Saviour. Remember that Jesus came for the world and not just certain people in the world. Where it not so, I doubt if we would be christians 2day.This is not christian like abi you be muslim before? I ask 'because I see elements of bitterness and violence which are far from the fruits of the Spirit.[/color][color=#990000]Take it easy, abeg.

\So sorry, I can't advise.

I am sorry if my comment sounded judgemental. Forgive me please

@Mukina,
Seriously, speaking, that dude who did this to you must have done something really bad. I will tell you the truth so listen and listen well. If you die with such grudge against men (or the man). You will have no where to go but hell which is why we are preaching the message of the CROSS to you.

Jesus said "Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.
It is my prayer that you will begin to see the Light Of God in your life.

@ Iroro,
I am sorry I interfered, never knew the 3 is a crowd rule applied. How do you propose to bring me home ma'am. Bottom power does not always apply to all men you know.
By the way, why you wan dey intimidate me with french. Perhaps, when next I am in France, I will holla at youas I am tired of gesticulating in the name of communications. I am mostly in Nantes sha.

@ugonna,
U want to go deep into theology abi? Do you know why the serpent was erected in the first place Numbers 21:4-9? How many times after then did Moses lift up the serpent? Did Moses say they should pray, honour or worship the serpent? Did you read what God said about the serpent? Please read it well, don't mix up things (Numbers 21:4-9). Do you know why God had to give them a visual thing to look at? I am sure if catholics were around as at the that time, we would have had images of snakes in all their churches. A systematic and expository study of Numbers will reveal more truths to you. Have you ever thought of how Jesus explained the bronze serpent? If not read John 3:14-15 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

You mention crosses being in our churches. Do you know the difference between the cross we use and the ones you use? Jesus is not on the cross we use. The empty cross reminds us that Jesus was crucified for us to gain salvation and has resurrected. The cross symbolises so many things which I don't want to delve into as they may be too deep for some of our readers but amongst the things the cross signifies to us is the fact that we have to nail our flesh to the croos and carry our cross daily. Unlike you, we don't bow down / genuflect to it when we enter the church. Little or no attention is paid to it or else it would mean we are Idolising it.
I can also see that your knowledge of church history is a bit shallow (when you see comments, your first action should be to investigate it). I am sure you were not aware of the atrocities the church committed in the name of proclaiming the gospel had it been that the pope didn't apologise. Do you know that the catholic church refused to protect the jews when Hitler was persecuting them? I doubt. Study your history church history well and you will realise that at a time, only the priests were allowed access to the bible and the people only listened to the priests during mass. And once again, you make a big mistake, the bible was not written by the catholic church. You really need to know do a little research on church history. You need to know how the bible were translated, the mistakes made and adulterations (plus why it was adulterated). You will also discover how certain kings became the pope at certain periods.

Baby gurl,you are very beautiful and as such I wouldn't like to vex you or else,

But the truth must be spoken. I had made up mind that I will lay my life down for the Cross if the need be. So I am please begging you to lay aside any prejudice and find out these things. Why, where and when did certain things get introduced into the church? We the protestants have our excesses as some denominations go to extreme in the legalistic and liberated mode of worship.

My dear, before I turn this into an something else. I will really like us to rub minds on this issue. We are here to learn or what do you think? I think we all need to pray the prayer that Paul said in Phillipians 3:10.

I can see that you are all jobless folks. The religious section is for serious people, why not you guys go and play in the Romance or sexuality Forums?

@ Lioness,
Please, since you are the lioness, can you tell me about the Lion? (Off-topic)

@ JUWON,
Your question is a very technical one. The answer is that MFM is both an end time church and a praying church.


@ Lafile,
I don't blame you guys. It is a big misconception of the ministry by members and even among the pastors. I  attended a service in one of the branches in Lagos and was shocked to hear the Pastor say " we are not here to pray for people to die today, we will do that in another service". What he meant was that we were going to have a thanksgiving service instead of the normal service.
I can tell you in all sincerity that we do not pray against people. We don't pray for people to die rather we pray against powers. It is just unfortunate that some people are stubborn in letting go of their power so they die along with these powers (we call them casualties). That not withstanding, we do not rejoice at the death of these people for we would have rather they got saved than died.

About the noise issue. Could you please forward me your address( not the full address but the area)  so that I can put a stop to this? It is not our wish to disturb the sleep of neighbours. We are friendly people just that some pastors over do things. Once again, accept my apologies.

@ Mukina,
Do you believe in karma? If you do, then know this. I am your karma .