₦airaland Forum

kabe1:
Did you actually go through my post?

Can you post a link from the Pakistani Defence saying they shot down India's MIG-21 with a JF-17.

I didn't tell you JF-17 shot down MIG-21.

Until recently, only France used the Rafale, the fact is Myanmar bought 16 units, Nigeria has ordered 3 units. The JF-17 has had export success for such a new aircraft.

Please read my post again.

I did and my response is to question the claim "The JF-17 is a combat proven aircraft, all weather, state of the art aircraft with modern avionics and an advanced EW suite."

You went on further to say it has had export success with Mynamar and now Nigeria.

If you are using Myanmar as a benchmark for credibility then you are desperately clutching at straws. This aircraft is cheap unproven in any combat scenario beyond what Pakistan very questionably claims.

It is an aircraft for poor countries with limited ambition and or forward thinking.

Since its maiden flight in 2003 it has managed to sell this so called according to you state of the art aircraft, to only two gullible buyers after 17 years, Myanmar and Nigeria, Chei we have suffered.

It was derived by the from the Mig 21, which also is the F7 and according to the Chinese and Pakistanis modelled on the F16.

with Myanmar buying them for only 16 million per unit. This has been the key to the JF-17’s export success. A poor nation can field a relatively modern fighter for a very low price. It is yet to be seen whether it can actually perform at its price point in combat, but Pakistan seems to be satisfied with what the JF-17 can do in trials. In many ways, China has updated the budget fighter of the last generation, the MiG-21, for the modern era with the help and additional design cues from the F-16.

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/jf-17-fighter-chinas-weird-mig-21-and-f-16-hybrid-24782

The shameless Chinese reverse engineered "Land Wind" may look like a Range Rover Evoque but is very far off the mark in all aspects, apart from just the visuals we do not judge a book by its cover.

When we say battle tested in the main the assumption is over a period of time an aircraft will be proven on multiple fronts and scenarios to be either comparable, outstanding and or exceptional. In 17 years since the its maiden flight there is NOTHING to underpin the claim of battle tested and proven.

For instance the Jaguar, F16, SU25 , f35 are battle tested proven and exceptional over many decades as outstanding performing aircraft, that is my understanding of , battle proven.

[quote author=bidexiii post=88920735]Fingers crossed
Nigerian troops lob rocket artillery on Boko Haram positions;

Nigerian troops lob rocket artillery on Boko Haram positions. pic.twitter.com/3Skjz1EDVN

— Defense News Nigeria (@DefenseNigeria) April 27, 2020

am somewhat perplexed.

From my understanding Boko are very fluid moving from place to place not really having permanent basis in the first instance. That being the case and considering the type of weaponry they have,( predominant;y light weapons and HMG Gun trucks) why is the NA not getting , Up Close and personal straight into their camp and taking them out.

When an enemy is bunkered down firing rockets has only limited effect.

Faithful007:
the A10 was fashioned primarily as an anti-tank aircraft in conventional attack ops, if the A10 were that useful in COIN then why is the us switching from using them to tucanos in afgan. the A10 is useless not in the sense that it is a powerless aircraft, it simply has no major role for now. the tucano are better for COIN ops and easier to maintain.

I do not wish to contend with you with regard to the bold.

But where did you get that report from ?

SamuelAnyawu:
Dear Buratai,

Kindly do something about this town called "Tungushe" in Konduga LGA 8Kilometers into Maiduguri along Maiduguri-Monguno way.

Previously, once we get to Gajiram-Gajiganna-Tungushe areas we assume we are already at home in Maid.

But throughout last week till today ISWAP/ BH has been harassing travelers. Today over 30 vehicles had to return to Monguno as ISWAP/BH operated over 2hours. Imagine getting to a town thats just 10mins drive into Maiduguri, but drivers had to drive 2hours back to Monguno.

Kindly do something Sir

Thats not good news and very very worrying.

kabe1:
JF-17 in joint exercise with UAE F-16 Block 60, Saudi Arabia Eurofighter, Kuwati F/A-18 and Egypt F-16 Block 52.

The JF-17 is a combat proven aircraft, all weather, state of the art aircraft with modern avionics and an advanced EW suite.

Which other air-force apart from China and Pakistan who jointly make this aircraft use it and have recorded any measured successful combat experience with it As you expect Pakistan wil always hype their own aircraft good or bad. In a war situation the first casualty is the TRUTH.


The PAF claimed its JF-17s had shot down two Indian fighters pursuing strike planes into Pakistani airspace. However, while the loss of one upgraded Indian MiG-21 Bison was confirmed and its pilot captured, India subsequently displayed fragments of American-made AIM-120 missiles only compatible with Pakistan’s F-16s, casting some doubt on whether the PAF’s Thunders were responsible for the kill.

This plane is being marketed dropping a few bombs on a rag tag insurgent group does not amount to battle proven IMO.

KingAzubuike:
I've honestly never seen them in operation.

In all honesty you rarely do.

They always remain hidden, what puzzles me is I dont see them taking out the gun truck we are so weary of.

One 50 cal bullet in the engine block of those rickety pickups and the vehicle is inoperable, an incendiary round in the cab kills all the front passengers round in the housing chamber and its mashed up essentially. Or if you llke sniper can take off the head of the operator on a now very immobile truck.

but thats my 2 penny opinion.

KingAzubuike:
Do we at all have snipers in the nigerian army? They seem to be very rare.

Having sniper rifles the NA do have them as well as designated snipers however incorporating them into your operational strategy and tactics may be another.

jpphilips:
You claim to be analyzing best value for money but conveniently skipped training
Which value for money does your UCAV add in that regards?

Where will you get the opportunity for a Soleimani kinda hit in an assymetric warfare the type we are fighting in NE? You just compared apples with potatoes, NAF needs to provide close air support for long hrs and run ISR while at it, agreed your UCAV can run ISR but can it give close air support without throwing expensive precision missiles? if your answer is no, then how is that best value for money?
[color=#990000]A-29 can gladly straff its guns when NAF is on low budget to fire expensive precision missiles where does that fall into your best value for money analysis?
Soleimani was killed with 2 nos $115k missiles, is that the best value for money for NAF with less than $250m annual budget?


During and after this war, Nigeria's battle theater will be majorly in Civilian population not a Turkey vs Syrian army kinda war, again you compare apples with candy, you sincerely think we will have the luxury of throwing smart bombs around? at what cost? A group of cattle rustlers in Sokoto or a group of pipeline vandals in the Niger delta creek, you waste GB3 250 kg laser-guided bomb on them plus collateral damages that can land you a global sanction? really? you call that best value for money?

You said A-29 is easy to shoot down at nearly 600km/hr speed, meanwhile you recommend a drone of 370km/hr top speed as your so called best value for money apparently, you have no clue why several better drones have been lost in Libya.

Speaking of shooting down A-29, it operates beyond the reach of ISWAP AA guns and it engages targets within the same distance so your analysis is baseless, your AA can't shoot down what you can't see.

US strategic partners have privileges you dont, while they can get strategic assets, from the US you cant so you are living in a dream.
Jonathan's handlers once had that dream of owning a Chinook, we know how he woke up from that dream, repeating Jonathan's dream is silly.
F16 is not exactly a COIN aircraft so when next you want to make smart comparisons, use the Air Tractor or Warthog to compare with the Tucano, US will not sell Warthog to Nigeria, has never sold it not even to allies so we fall back again to the Tucano as the smartest choice.[/color]

My post that addressed this muddle of misinformation and propositions under pinned simply by your self birthed presumptions was addressed by me quite some time ago. However, for reasons unknown that post has gone missing.

The analogy of the Qassem Soleiman brazen assassination by the USA with its MQ-9 Reaper UAV, is in generalist terms to highlight the efficacy of UAV in precision attacks. The Chinese Wing Loong II UAV is not as good but retains for the price outstanding attributes of which the Chinese not me claim to compete with the $30 million MQ-9. ( that is over hype to me) So that comparison is dubiously misleading and not part of the original discourse. The reference to the MQ-9 by me is indicative generalist and not specific related.

The original discourse centers on the question of "Best value and the most efficient use of resources for the greatest impact in the NE" You can have a short term and long term view.

In that context the comparison was made by cost and delivery outcome impact of Wing Loong II against IMO overpriced and limited value A29 Tucano.

The unit cost of Wing Loong II is approximately $1million and the approximate unit cost of the A29 in excess of $33 million excluding all the contract add ons for the $600 million contract procurement package. Effectively means procurement unit cost of one A29 is equivalent to over 30 Wing Loong II UAV's

You created inadvertently a unit of measurement with your factitious comparison of price of precision munitions Specifically the $115K USA missiles you create even more questions about the A29 sustainability over the short term and long term.

However going back to the inception false premise, that the A29 is the best air frame for COIN , thats simply not true. The role of the A29 in current and past USAF operations in Afghanistan, Iraq and Syria, is essentially non existent in comparison to other USAF assets deployed. This is a fallacy a outcome delivery of deceptive marketing targeted to inconsequential associate nations.

NATO declined procurement of the A10 as being not fir for purpose. At the time there was unequivocal agreement that the A10 was not better than the existing NATO assets and that included the Jaguar, Mirage and F16'S. That there other precision weaponry that could be brought to the conflict that was more efficient for close support such as with attack , helicopters and guided munitions.

The word COIN is the very fluid it is not some concept that is rigid, particular and exact, it really is very broad, so you are misleading yourself.

In this day and age nobody is strafing ground targets at low altitude with 30 mm cannon fire in support of ground troops. In these engagement there is close proximity and the danger of friendly fire is too high, i.e. blue on blue. Add to that if you fly the A29 at that low altitude it will be a target AA fire. As a consequence the A29 relies entirely on it precision weaponry for the efficiency of its strikes against enemy targets not nose diving gun trucks this isn't WW2.

Now you have made this rod for your own back, how much are the expensive ATGM's, laser guided bombs, etc that the A29 uses according to you $115k a pop. When the first batch of bombs are used up, will we have the $$$ to buy more Is that long term sustainable

The MQ-9 is $30 Milion and the Wing Loong II is $1 Million, its reasonable to project that the precision weaponry ATGM, Lazer guided bombs, etc will be a mere fraction of the cost of the USA similar ones and as usual way over priced.

As a result we will start attaching non adaptable munitions with no precision targeting to the A29 because we cant afford the expensive USA procured ones, then all the associated service costs of replacement parts and avionics updates, etc will make this plane almost useless. Within 4 years there will be all kinds of queries and allegations. It will end up being a liability if we are not careful and not better than the Alpha and F7's for the role we procured it for.

Boko dont have the technology to hit at high altitude aircraft so the possibility of an A29 or a Wing Loong II being shot down is almost no existent. So whenever this war ends we will still need surveillance in the sky.

Currently we should have 24/7 365 complete surveillance of the NE only a UAV can give you that one that has an endurance of 32 hours compared to 6 hours for a A29. The cost of 2 A29's gives us 60 +Wing Loong II UAV's that means short term and long term we can have coverage over the national maritime waters and beyond. That is long term sustainability. In addition the cost of keeping that UAV in the air for 24 hours plus much much cheaper than the A29.

The USA has no regard for Nigeria, the people yes maybe but the leadership a big NO. Why that is a never ending debate, which includes corruption. Now if they dont value us why on earth are we partnering with them, for goodness sake. Marriage is not by force, if USA will not marry us France, Germany, Russia, Ukraine , etc no deh. Essentially if the USA will not consider us a strategic partner then we find somebody who will.

It is a very pertinent point the USA does not use this aircraft in any significant way. None of its serious or valued partners use who are fighting COIN wars at different intensities. But some how, many on this forum think it is a great solution for the NE . What the NE needs is surveillance but the right commodification infrastructure and a 1000+ more fir for purpose armoured vehicles to enable combatants have the capacity to engage the enemy.

Finally a verbatim statement from Air Force Chief of Staff Gen. David Goldfein that tells the story of the A29 in a nutshell if you read between the lines.

"Our focus is on how a light attack aircraft can help our allies and partners as they confront violent extremism and conduct operations within their borders," Air Force Chief of Staff Gen. David Goldfein said in the release. "Continuing this experiment, using the authorities Congress has provided, gives us the opportunity to put a small number of aircraft through the paces and work with partner nations on ways in which smaller, affordable aircraft like these can support their air forces."

rka2:
This is interesting. Kindly show me where I called you a liar in all our exchanges regarding above highlighted statement. I have never engaged you in the Tucano discussion. I think you are confusing me with somebody else.

I totally agree with the rest of your write-up about it being a waste to let the Jags rot.

Edit: At least one Jaguar jet was lost as a result of a crash in 1985.

https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/138072

Quite surprisingly irrespective of our different approaches you have at no time called me a LIAR.

That means that I am at fault alleging in my presumption that have you called me a liar and therefore I have to eat humble pie and apologize unreservedly.

jpphilips:
You claim to be analyzing best value for money but conveniently skipped training
Which value for money does your UCAV add in that regards?

Where will you get the opportunity for a Soleimani kinda hit in an assymetric warfare the type we are fighting in NE? You just compared apples with potatoes, NAF needs to provide close air support for long hrs and run ISR while at it, agreed your UCAV can run ISR but can it give close air support without throwing expensive precision missiles? if your answer is no, then how is that best value for money?
A-29 can gladly straff its guns when NAF is on low budget to fire expensive precision missiles where does that fall into your best value for money analysis?
Soleimani was killed with 2 nos $115k missiles, is that the best value for money for NAF with less than $250m annual budget?


During and after this war, Nigeria's battle theater will be majorly in Civilian population not a Turkey vs Syrian army kinda war, again you compare apples with candy, you sincerely think we will have the luxury of throwing smart bombs around? at what cost? A group of cattle rustlers in Sokoto or a group of pipeline vandals in the Niger delta creek, you waste GB3 250 kg laser-guided bomb on them plus collateral damages that can land you a global sanction? really? you call that best value for money?

You said A-29 is easy to shoot down at nearly 600km/hr speed, meanwhile you recommend a drone of 370km/hr top speed as your so called best value for money apparently, you have no clue why several better drones have been lost in Libya.

Speaking of shooting down A-29, it operates beyond the reach of ISWAP AA guns and it engages targets within the same distance so your analysis is baseless, your AA can't shoot down what you can't see.

US strategic partners have privileges you dont, while they can get strategic assets, from the US you cant so you are living in a dream.
Jonathan's handlers once had that dream of owning a Chinook, we know how he woke up from that dream, repeating Jonathan's dream is silly.
F16 is not exactly a COIN aircraft so when next you want to make smart comparisons, use the Air Tanker or Warthog to compare with the Tucano, US will not sell Warthog to Nigeria, has never sold it not even to allies so we fall back again to the Tucano as the smartest choice.

I responded to this quite comprehensively days ago, but it seems to have got lost in cyberspace.

Using comparative cost analysis both capital and recurrent to show the A29 not to be long term viable for the NAF, and the limited use of the A29 that will play out in the long term over the recurrent cost barriers.

rka2:
You are the one accusing me of disinformation and saying I just make things up and you have the temerity to accuse me of name calling?

I still follow Beegs on Twitter and I can never call him a liar. We are only as good as our sources sometimes. So they had an inspection in 1986, how does that affect what I was saying about storage outside? Did I disagree they were inspected? You think I don't have sources as well to back up they were abandoned outside?

Quit pretending to be an injured party. So where is the disinformation?

Maybe these photos will help. Dated May 3rd 2007. See llink to photos. There is also a photo below of storage in a hanger, not crated or dated.

http://wpalette.com/en/pictures/56700

The jets were largely abandoned in the late 80s. They tried to sell them in 2011.

The small Nigerian Jaguar force did not operate for long; despite being the most heavily populated country in Africa and rich in natural resources including oil, chaotic government with repeated coups and corruption on a massive scale coupled with sanctions by other nations left the country's Air Force unable to afford a safe level of operations, or to keep maintenance contracts going. By early 1990 they had flown their last Jaguar, with some not having undergone inspections since 1986. The 14 (or 16?) surviving airframes have been basically derelict ever since and have long since passed the point of being flyable without a huge investment. Several attempts have been made to sell them since, most recently in October 2011 when they were apparently put up for auction. The level of corruption endemic in the country can hardly make a purchase attempt an attractive proposition!

https://www.thunder-and-lightnings.co.uk/jaguar/history.php

just that they were stored out in the open without any protection from the elements and by the time the Indians inspected them, they were not fit for purpose.

Your entire write up was set up to underpin the proposition that these 16 Sepecat Jaguars were essentially rust buckets and not worth a carrot, that was the substance of your position.

My position was that two Bae Systems and the Indian Hindustan were prepared to pay about what we paid to procure them so you are talking at least
that is going to go into near or above $65 million speculatively. That means there was considerable life left in the air frames. Without being racially prejudiced stingy Indian man will not pay $10 million for scrap metal.

Back to the other claim , i simply do not use vitriolic diction in the first instance and you called me a LIAR when i said the complete contract package cost for the A29's was $600 million. I presented a USA government published and gazetted document to back up my claim. Or is the USA govt. telling lies .

Nonetheless, its not particularly relevant now.

I find it unforgivable that we let those Jags rot, had a chance to refurbish but did not , then we didnt sell them when there was clear offers to purchase, WHY, WHY, which way Nigeria. So effectively we lost maybe $100 million in possible revenue , that is UNFORGIVABLE.

kabe1:
JF-17 in joint exercise with UAE F-16 Block 60, Saudi Arabia Eurofighter, Kuwati F/A-18 and Egypt F-16 Block 52.

The JF-17 is a combat proven aircraft, all weather, state of the art aircraft with modern avionics and an advanced EW suite.

The term combat proven is very fluid in the extreme without a comparison unit of measurement, so in the context of the JF-17 what do you mean by combat proven.

For instance, we can say unequivocally that the F22, 35 , Typhoon, and many more are battle tested and therefore battle proven in multiple theaters and operations across the world in many challenging situations also over many years.

So what makes JF-17 a Mig 21 Hybrid as many have argued to have become "combat proven"

I am speaking with undeniable bias, if Pakistan was a car manufacturer I would not be taken away or inspired by the Manufacturers sales pitch. And i would rather have a 3/4 year old proven, tested and confirmed quality vehicle from Germany or Japan than a brand new one from Pakistan no matter how cheap.

As people say , you get what pay for , the Chinese/ Pakistan JF-17 is cheap for a reason, as we say in Warri "Cheap article deh spoil belle"

We have not learned our lesson the old and even second hand acquired Alpha jets have proven as many also argue to be much more resilient and reliable than the F-7 (Mig 21) we bought from China for $250 million.

General question.

I have posted quite recently two different write ups, somewhat lengthy and as is my practice substantiated with either a government release and or other media reference point.

Sometimes in response to the more boisterous and opinionated contributors we have here.

However, I have noticed two of those posts have now gone missing, my question is this a regular occurrence and therefore quite normal on this particular segment of nairaland

To date i have not experienced that before.

To quote Ian Fleming; Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. Three times is enemy action.

Your responses will help to understand this very new observation, thank you.

rka2:
You talk as if you are an authority. I was an active participant on Beeg's blog. It is a blog and not gospel. I didn't tell you they weren't stored at Makurdi Air Base just that they were stored out in the open without any protection from the elements and by the time the Indians inspected them, they were not fit for purpose. Do these photos look like they were crated?

Talking of disinformation, I can not think of anybody else so adept at it on this forum.

It seems that you need to revert back to basics because you do not seem to understand what the word disinformation means. FYI, false information which is intended to mislead

Your approach is to discredit but not with anything but your own opinion no facts, just your own self birthed deduction. Your opinion is not fact its just a view.

I used Beeeagle to underpin my view and mentioned him being a prolific blogger at the time, is that disinformation Unless you are calling him a liar too.

I quote him, it emerged that a Jaguar B TRAINER variant (NAF 703) had flown for only 150 hours 54 minutes since it was manufactured in December 1984. It had its 100 hours inspection on the 10th day of February, 1986. It suggests that the crated fleet of Jaguar jets is almost brand-new still. Where is the disinformation

We have very clear information to a good degree technical from which a substantive non-opinionated deduction can be made, that there was considerable life left in these air frames, that is a very plausible deduction to be made. We are informed there were two separate bids for the planes by both India's Hindustan and the now BAE systems. That says there was value in theses Air-frames. Personally when i think of the European build quality i would prefer a renewed 16 Sepecat Jaguar, new engines, avionics, weapon systems, etc for a $100 million. In comparison to the 12 Chinese copy cat Mig 21's that we bought for £250 million.

That is my opinion it is not fact , it is not disinformation or misrepresentation it is my approach to best value, you can agree or disagree thats your choice.

With regards to your pictures it says nothing or proves anything, we don't know when those pics were taken , for how long the Jags remained in the open and when they left the hangar and where they currently are right now. Your pictures without a time frame explanation are misleading and more of disinformation.

From my own sources at the time my understanding was that they were in the HANGERS just before the inspection, what happened afterwards I really do not know. I could easily find out if I wanted too.

So if you disagree with me its your choice but please stop trying to harangue, name calling and cause unnecessary ill tempered arguments, there is simply no need. I don't know what you mean by "You talk as if you are an authority"

Stalwert:
Esprit De corps.

Falsification of documents is a crime, rather than prosecute the forger they let him retire with his pay check.

Perversion of justice is also a crime by deliberately refusing to give judgement he perverted justice. Yet he will be rewarded with s fat pay check and severance package.

NJC should ask itself serious questions.

Nigeria is a country of hypocritical double standards.

We have the biggest fraud with so many people who forged or claimed to have certificates that seem to have be non existent all the way to the Presidency.

Falsification of age is a misrepresentation but it being a crime is another matter. Age is not a qualification in itself, and it is not on the same weighting as a certificate forgery which is clear fraud.

GamalNasser:
The Same NJC that sat quiet like a deaf and blind puppy when Justice Tanko drove himself to Aso Rock on his own to be sworn in as CJN by Buhari in the evening when there was still an active CJN in the person if Justice Onnoghen and the NJC was not informed neither was the National Assembly informed in what has become the most embarrassing moment of Judiciary in Nigeria , a case that will be sure visited in the future !!!!! Now the same NJC suddenly wants to wield disciplinary powers over small time justices .. I stand to be corrected but I don't think the current Judiciary leadership has the moral right or standing to discipline any Judge because the current leadership of the Judiciary is a product of gross indiscipline and a child of Injustice !!!

100% correct

jpphilips:
Can your Winglong UAV train Nigerian pilots during and after the war?

Can Winlong UAV straff ammo on hostiles in regions with high Civilian population or when the military is low on budget to throw precision missiles around?

Im certain you aren't thinking long term, UAV's may inject short term capabilities but Tucano will win long term especially when the war ends.

What is the co-relationship between training NAF fighter pilots and piloting a UAV that is a non question, doesn't make any sense.

Your second question, I will respond with recent devastating example of the efficacy of UAV when it comes to stealth precision attacks with the target completely oblivious. Consider General Qasem Soleimani, taken out with a precision hit by a alleged Reaper drone. Can the very noisy A29 Turbo Prop hover in the air at 30,000ft + and hover around patiently for 30 hours, waiting patiently to strike. No it cannot. Do you think if Turkey had sent in A29 to deal with the Syrian army in Idlib they would have been so overwhelmingly successful.

Thinking long term which of these planes is easier to shoot down, the noisy A29 or the near Silent drones, particularly for insurgents and thier obligatory AA guns on their pickups. Consider if you shoot down a cheap $1million Wing Loong II UAV, nobody dies you walk away no tears you buy another one, nuttin spoil. You shoot down an A29 there will be plenty tears, furthermore with a unit cost in excess of $30 million +that is a big loss.

What is best value, one A29 against the 25+ Wing Loong II UAV, its what we call a , "NO BRAINER" The UAV is the future and the A29 competes with WW2 Mustangs of the USAF its realy a historical relic updated to meet modern day needs in the short term as a cheap alternative. But we paid G wagon money for a toyota corolla , it feels like the Yankees have given us a big Yahoo, and we fall hook, line & sinker.

It is as obvious as DAYLIGHT the USA sells these overpriced frames to insignificant low valued partners at off the scale ridiculous prices. Do you see Egypt, UAE, Saudi Arabia, Isreal, not even Pakistan their strategic valued partners using A29, not one of them, they are using F16's at the very least.

I consider the offer of the A29's as a diplomatic blatant rebuff by the USA to Nigeria it says we dont rate or value you. If the USA will not sell something better to us what about France, Germany , Russia, Sweden, etc

rka2:
The Jaguars were beyond economic repair when examined because they were left in the open to rot without any protection. Imagine the state of the airframe and the avionics etc. Nothing the Indians could do.

You make a proposition from thin air that in the first instance that is disinformation, it seems you self birth ideas and notions and pass them off as facts and knowledge based probability.

The Sepecat Jags were kept in Makurdi, and with regards to the 1985 Faild coup you should read up on the history and composition of the NAF at that time and the tribal dynamics that created paranoia among the IBB and Abacha associates in the military.

Below an excerpt from Beeeagle one time prolific blogger on the subject.

Sometime in 2007 when these jets were put on display by the NAF for prospective buyers to inspect, it emerged that a Jaguar B TRAINER variant (NAF 703) had flown for only 150 hours 54 minutes since it was manufactured in December 1984. It had its 100 hours inspection on the 10th day of February, 1986. It suggests that the crated fleet of Jaguar jets is almost brand-new still.

When NAF offered the Jaguar for sale, BAe officials came for inspection/evaluation and among others conditions; they said that BAe will consider purchasing the planes at the purchase price or lower value than what Nigeria spent on the acquisition of the said jets.

https://beegeagle./2012/08/22/how-nigeria-lost-the-use-of-her-jaguar-jets-without-most-of-them-logging-up-200-hours/

KingAzubuike:
The Nigerian army don't even use Ak 47. What they use are clones of ak47 variants like the Romanian PMD 65, Yugoslavian M70 B1 and Chinese type 56. In a nut shell, they are using clones of clones.

There are clones and thier are clones all with different grades some have regressed in quality and some have improved that quality.

The Polish Beryl is a good quality improvement which the NA procured. What l expected was forward thinking and some sort of technology transfer for it to be made under licence here

Another example is the Israeli Alpha AK47 variant.

CaptainStephen:
The main gun is a waste in very close swam ambushes because of the angle of depression to ground.
A secondary weapon is handy especially when you come in contact with the enemy in an open terrain.

The BTR 4E is the particular variant we have I would presume, its suppose to be an APC but with the RWS it has it makes it a quasi IFV, that RWS comes with a grenade launcher , the 30mm cannon, a 7.62 MG, and 4 ATGM,s.

In an close near ambush, you are probably talking 50-100 meters, we are talking Boko here so it will be RPG's, a torrent of small arms fire and thier gun trucks from a distance shooting at the KILL ZONE relentlessly.

The elevation angles of the 30mm aligned to its targeting system will hit targets from 100 meters upwards, with 100% accuracy, manually a bit less. But the grenade launcher has a much closer proximity including the 7.62 MG. That grenade launcher is going to be at least 30mm that means anything with a 15 metres radius of where that grenade drops dies or gets seriously wounded.

Instead of ensuring that weapons station is operational we stick a HMG on the top i honestly find that TOTALLY LUDICROUS and there is no excuse for it (our very poor maintenance culture the more probable reason) as it that its comical and leaves the NA open too never ending ridicule. A whole new RWS can be purchased from Ukraine for probably less than $100k but to fix the existing one will be a pittance.

I am sorry , we have different experiences although that may be doubtful, i have seen many officers come from Nigeria to the UK on courses, so you know what I am talking about, that is if you haven't been to Bovington yourself.

I always find it puzzling, how you guys come on a training course with all the communications infrastructure and equipment do excellently well and then your given sub standard in fact "NO EQUIPMENT" sometimes and excepted to work miracles.

I liken it to training to be a formula 1 racing car driver then you get back to Nigeria, and they give you a Toyota Corolla and say oya win the race.

I sincerely commend you for the thankless sacrifice you guys put in.

Lurker4Long:
More food for thought from the always excellent Peccavi.
Some take-aways on the so-called Super Camp strategy:





Read the whole thing here:

https://peccaviconsulting./2020/02/13/boko-haram-iswaps-christmas-2019-offensive/

The biggest difference is in the camp format.

I am shocked that we are still practicing WW2 ideology and digging trenches. Who does that in this modern age.

You need elevation, it's very simple I've talked about this before. We have a system of large elevated essentially sand bag walls. HESCO wall basket as they are popularly called.

It gives you elevation and protection from HMG and RPG and it makes it easier for you yo responde and kill them off.

Look at the trench, you are dealing with deranged suicide terrorists if one of them should crawl his way into that trench then ignite himself. Let's not even imagine.

KingAzubuike:
Hello, stop misquoting me. I never said NVG are sold for $8 . They are very expensive, talking about those of military standard.

What I said is that there are budget ones that go for as low as $8. These budget ones aren't military standard but it doesn't mean it can't be useful . I was trying to tell you that the Nigerian army will be better off using the latter rather than having nothing at all. In summary, I was trying to tell you "at all at all nahim bad pass" I bought one for that amount from Amazon and it was great.

I appreciate your rational.

Is the issue one of affordability or is it something else.

If you have noticed we don't even have optic sights on most of our rifles. Something that really should be standard.

We are still using basic AK47's some are even low quality Chinese made. I am told not substantiated rumoured.

slimthugchimee2:
And worse of all someone who isn't well informed will swallow all that nonsense, thank God I bumped into this thread and its brother threads, I really learnt a lot.

That was how that azubuike dude her was claiming they sell NVG for 8 dollars
That's why I always laugh whenever you guys are arguing with him

There are many grades types and qualities of NVG.

How much are basic NVG's procured for $$ wholesale per unit just curious please.

bidex111:
Yeap when this BTR-4 first arrive the main gun (RWS/Automatic Canon) was been used, after a while I don’t know what happen.
First of all they where returned, then later brought back with an added AAG in the front. I think we have issues getting the ammo for the main
gun but the coaxial machine-gun besides are still working.

Now this is what past COAS got for us, if you talk now they come for your head

It is still incomprehensible.

The RWS gives you clear and over riding advantage over your enemy. It has FLIR something Boko cannot deal with so you can see the heat signature of thier rickety gun trucks with the thermal sights.

You can effectively at 1.5km start taking out thier gun trucks.

The 30 X 165 is dirt cheap it's made in Ukraine and across the Eastern block. It's available like yesterday.

Don't make any sense. I wonder if any if the associated electronics are operations making it a big wheeled tin box a Lion with no teeth.

They have put a big HMG on it that's not going to be particularly accurate beyond 500 metres and that's after expending sorry waisting multiple rounds unnecessarily.

neyobills:
Generally if not for military discipline and if everyone could have their way most combatants would rather not wear an helmet except in direct line of fire,its a global phenomenon, but thank God for the technology of way lighter and useful helmets has changed the trend,factor in the typical Nigerian sucker for safety rules attitude and ur guess is good as mine.

However in Advanced militaries too you would hardly see an officer from colonel upwards donning helmet up and down except his in the kill zone,in the military oga can dress anyhow with no questions asked,same way Buhari can wear camo anytime as CinC with no question asked.

I also don't think the CO was too exposed as I saw him pacing all over in the video which would make it a hard target for even a sniper,from the rounds of fire I was hearing the BHT were too engaged to even give him a shot let alone a clean one and the risk he took was definitely worth taking its just about military tactics 101 especially when u don't have an endless supply of ammo or supplies.

Wearing your helmet in in hostile territory is a must not too wear it sheer stupidity.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_Ni71EjUfg

lebuhsi:
I know it's lengthy, but you guys should take a look at this!...very insightful piece, some journalist really do their homework well
https://eonsintelligence.com/details/special-report-90785645/isis-in-africa-the-most-bitter-split-will-regional-states-strike-in-the-midst-of-chaos-part-2-163691633


https://eonsintelligence.com/details/2033490310/isis-in-africa-the-most-bitter-split-will-regional-states-strike-in-the-midst-of-chaos-part-1-1675561710#.Xp12nEF4v-I.twitter

I read the article it's slightly academic but does nothing in terms of breakthrough information and or strategy.

I expected a lot more.

Fynline:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGCj6Alurzc

I don't understand why they had to install the secondary weapon on the BRT, it is to have something to use for soft targets? Wouldn't it prevent the main gun from rotating effectively 180 degrees?

Baffled beyond reasoning completely bewildered.

That's an earlier version of the Ukraine BTR4 it has a RWS not the best. But it also has FLIR and can give you a 100% target acquisition accuracy at even 1.5km and can engage target beyond that with its 30mm.

I can not explain it.

Many it seems are still using DOS as a computer operating system when we are on Windows 10.

The skill set of playing virtual war games is now an expectation for recruit coming into the modern armies of the world.

It you look at the RWS incorporated into multiple types of combatants vehicles tracked or wheeled the console and layouts are similar to the battlefield computer software games.

When it comes to battlefield management communication there are some skills better learned in the virtual environments. Then they can be applied to the practical experience of the real life battlefield.

In the modern warfare bravado, zeal and fearlessness do not overcome knowledge, understanding and intelligence.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SlKmXVXy0k4


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NND7Hk5fYdI

bidexiii:
Help me them oOO...
Even the almighty Americans and there allies friends NATO has failed in the Middle East, the region is getting tensed day by day and some times I wonder that prevailing over terrorism his not truly by Kinetics means rather than destroying the ideology.
All what I see in the Middle East are war mongers and contractors who want to make money. Even Libya is not left out thank God for Egypt during the Muslim brothers revolution, Egypt would have been in a mess.
One ass-hole who claims he has a qualification, thinks that makes him qualify for war/combat matters. He even went further by stating video games/movies are realistic to what we have on the real battle field. See height of ignorance of someone claiming high educational qualification.
Until to have your combat fire baptism you don’t know shit of what it takes to be out there on the battle field.

This is a forum, it should be about exchange of ideas, thoughts, opinion, knowledge, understanding and strategy, etc, etc.

Castigating somebody and or using gutter language is not beneficial to the discourse.

Once again l remind you, you are if we can use the term a senior statesman here.

Your language should be civil and again you should have an open mind even to those that disagree with you. Discuss, appraise, balance and conclude on substance and rationality.

You are denigrating the forum with this kind of distasteful language and creating rancour. Please be civil.

Being parochial and unwavering in your opinion is not a sign of intelligence. It's often said that knowledge is the ability to learn new things and wisdom the ability to apply it.

Below are a number of screen shots that highlights the value placed on virtual battle games and the transfer of that technology to the training of today's modern soldier.

That shows you lack knowledge of the interfacing of gaming technology with military training. It seems you are stuck in the past.

Iblawi1:
How many soldiers can make accurate shot at 500 meters? Even in US military.

Those guys are firing an enemy at almost 1km or even greater. This is neither a video game not a movie.

You can't judge the performance of the operation by what is happening in a small part of the operation except you have an overall view.

Try to be in a place where bullets are fly here and there and sure your impression will change.

I know many who can make that who aren't even soldiers just from practicing on the range.

It really depends on what equipment you have. With the right optics and assault rifle you should hit a melon sized target very easily.

However, with steel sights and chaotic disorganised responses, in panic driven battle environment add to that a basic AK47 near impossible. Most basic AK'S effective range is about 300 metres plus.

AskiaHarem:
Nigeria has done a more sufficient job at containing BokoHarem than NATO has done at containing Al Qaeda in the Middle East which has spread like wildfire. Not to mention BokoHarem is rated a more dangerous group.

The fact of the matter is If BokoHarem had spawned or set there primary sites on any other nation within Africa with the exception of maybe South Africa, Egypt, or Algeria that nation would have been overrun and decimated by the end of that year; some month.

That's a delusional proposition with zero substance.

First of all to date there has not been any continous non stop attacks on any NATO territory.

Even the very cowardly hit and run tactics have been largely unsuccessful. Before they even get to implement an attack they are taken out.

You have a few lone Rangers highly deranged carryout attacks with vehicles, knives and guns but again they are very few.

Islamists terrorists have tried in Morocco and Tunisia and failed. Egypt is battling a serious insurgency in the Sinai for many years.

Without the intervention of NATO the entire sub Sahara region would have been completely over run.

Operation Serval was able to halt a far larger force of partnered terrorists Islamic organisation in Maghreb. Essentially within 2 weeks albeit with the help of Chadian soldiers. Barely a dozen French combatants lost.

Boko Haram has been on Nigerian territory and controlling territory for a decade. There is absolutely no basis for comparison.

SerikinGamo:
So, in summary “no meaningful background”. Right

To surmise in the context of what SamuelAnyanwu has said, he has far greater in the first hand sector spatial knowledge than many in the armed forces.

Having lived, been resident within the north east with close partnership relationships with the armed forces he has tacit knowledge as well as first sight assessment of the operational efficacy of the Nigerian armed forces, within the sector.

Furthermore, he is able to use comparison indices to give us a more rounded view of matters and not just rely on the NA PR machinery.

In this regard he can easily tutor you and give you a comprehensive lesson on the dynamics of the NE.

I for one regard his view much more than any of our politics and corruption ridden top brass and definitely more than anybody here. I appreciate that the truths or opinions he may give may burst the the bubble of many who wish to see things in different perspective irrespective of the overwhelming corroborated evidence to the contrary.