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Culture / Re: Similarities Between Yoruba And Bini (edo) Dancers by lakal(m): 1:50am On Feb 07, 2012
Some more info on linguistic innovation and how Yoruba is really a multitude of dialects.




In Lexical incidental variability in the pronunciation of the Yoruba labiovelar /w/, I examined the use of the variants of this sound segment and attempted to trace its history and development using the Chen and Wang (1975) argument that when a change takes place in language it spreads gradually through the lexicon. The argument is that in the process of change, linguistic norms diffuse differently in different words with different speakers. Chambers and Trudgill (1980, cited in Salami, 1991a: 142) observed that it is unusual to find a change which has apparently spread over around half the vocabulary of a language because the usual state of affairs for incomplete changes is that they affect almost all or a few words. Thus it is possible, for example, that while a change might have taken place in the lexicon of Yoruba within Oyo dialect, it might not have been completed in the speech of Ife dialect speakers.


Some earlier analysis of the Yoruba labiovelar /w/ had traced its variants to include /gw/ as in /ɛgwa/ : ‘ten’ in Oka-Akoko dialect, /h/ in /ha/:’come’ in Ikare-Akoko dialect, /ɣ / in /ɔɣɔ/ Owo name of a town – Owo dialect as well as in Ife dialect and / ŋ/ as in /iŋƆ/ : ‘they’ in Ife dialect and /ɸ/ as in /aɸun/: ‘miser’ in Yoruba urban vernacular (Common Spoken Yoruba). Our study of this sound segment shows that the pronunciation of present-day Yoruba /w/ is socially diagnostic and that the alternations noticed in its koine may represent the process of lexical diffusion and change. That is to say that there seems to be an ongoing change in this Yoruba speech sound which may be spreading from one lexical item (word) to another. In particular, when we examined /w/ deletion in Common Spoken Yoruba, we found that Central Yoruba dialect speakers (Ife, Ijesa, Ekiti) as well as Yoruba youngsters seem to be most /w/-deleting (Salami, 1991b: 151). The caveat is that though this may seem to be the current trend among young people and Central Yoruba speakers, it could become aborted if there are pressures of stigmatization of the speech behaviour or the need to conform with the standard written form. For now, this is not the case.

http://omoyelifeandtimes..com/
Culture / Re: Similarities Between Yoruba And Bini (edo) Dancers by lakal(m): 1:47am On Feb 07, 2012
PhysicsQED:

Lakal, I saw your reply earlier in that Delta, Bendel thread and I didn't respond. But I'll respond to the post that you made there in this thread, since you've reproduced a version of that response to bring this thread back up.

Excuse my skepticism but there are a few questions that come to mind when you state that "Proto-Yoruba" (as distinct from, say, "Proto-Kwa"wink was originally chock full of "gh" and "gw" sounds. I was and am aware that the voiced velar fricative ("gh"wink can change to "w" and that was part of my point, but what I'm skeptical of is the explanation given for why the geographical trend that you've elaborated on really exists (it being only geographical, and not indicative of interaction with other groups).



Other groups besides the Edo use gh, but does it really look coincidental that most of the Yorubas that retained the "gh" sound are close to speakers of non-Yoruba languages that do use the gh sound? The question which I'm getting at is why the geographical trend that you described exists.

Also, aren't the Kabba speakers supposed to have migrated from Ife and through Ekiti at one point? Meaning, weren't they originally more central than northeastern? And didn't the kingdom of Owo extend into Kabba?


I have a question about this geographic trend though.

Assuming that these groups had a similar origin, wouldn't it be reasonable to assume that the adoption or retention of this "gh" sound among certain groups would be due to influence or interaction with other groups, whether Yoruba or non-Yoruba that did use the "gh" sound? I guess what I'm getting at is that if some of the Eastern Yorubas used the "gh" sound, wouldn't that be a possible reason some northeastern Yoruba (such as Kabba) would use the "gh" sound, rather than the "gh" sound being a widespread component of original "Proto-Yoruba" (as distinct from "Proto-Kwa"wink? Keeping in mind the claim that Owo previously extended into Kabba, this doesn't seem that unreasonable.

About the Northeast, do the majority of the Northeast Yoruba use the "gh" sound, or just the Kabba? The other Yorubas in Kogi state, for example, do they use the "gh" sound? If they don't, then I don't really see how it could be geographic only and not due to interaction with other groups.


As far as the word ogho meaning respect, I was certain that the meaning indicating respect (not money, "igho" is money in Edo) is rooted in the Edoid languages, since ogho also means respect in Urhobo, and linguists (such as Ben Elugbe) hold Urhobo to have separated from the groups now in Edo state a very long time ago, but since you brought up owo meaning respect in Yoruba, it seems that meaning is from a proto-Kwa word, not an exclusively Edoid or Yoruboid word. 

Yeah, I looked at a Yoruba dictionary (by Kayode Fakinlede) before I posted that actually and I didn't see the use of "gh" at all even though it's known that some Yorubas do use it. I guess that was an "Oyo dictionary", and not a full Yoruba dictionary.

What you're saying here is that when Yorubas were a smaller group, the "Proto-Yoruba" group, the language was full of "gh" and "gw" sounds.

If most Yorubas eliminated "gh" and "gw" consonants from the language, then the majority of them changed parts of the sound of their language.  The question which should follow is why some of them didn't change parts of their language. You're explaining to me that migration and the influence of the Oyo dialect changed the sound of the consonants in the language, and I didn't post anything with respect to that, but in light of what you wrote the question I would have is why only certain groups (Southeastern Yoruba, Northeastern Yoruba that may have interacted with Southeastern Yoruba, Itsekiri), but not others (some other Northeastern Yoruba in Kogi state, Igala) would have retained certain consonants of a proto-Yoruboid language if it were merely about migration/geography and Oyo.

It's not unusual to you that the only Yorubas that retained "gh" are in Eastern Yorubaland, whereas the Yorubas outside of southeastern and northeasten Yorubaland all altered it?

Also, since Igala is technically "Yoruboid", and since the Igala split from other Yoruba language speakers occurred quite early and the Igala are in that same northeastern area, shouldn't the Igala language retain the ancient "gh" sound, since some proto-Yoruba speakers that stayed towards the northeast also retained it? I'm not really convinced that "gh" was retained in Yoruba without outside influence, whereas you (and professional linguists) are convinced that the vast majority of Yorubas changed the consonants after migration and the Oyo dialect influence. It is speculation on my part, I admit, but I really don't think the particular geographical trend you've described is mere happenstance.




The Proto-Yoruba theory is of course one that is full of gaps due to it being premised on the reconstruction of a now "extinct" form of the Yoruba language.  I would be tempted to ascribe a Benin influence if the "gh" phenomenon was only found in those Eastern regions where Benin influence was most prominent.  However, the "gh" and "gw" is not found in any part of Ekiti or Akure, even those areas closer to Benin. 

The "w" phenomenon is not the only dialectal variation that was begun by Oyo.  Another commonly known linguistic innovation among the Oyo/Ibadan speakers of the language is the "confusion" of the "s" and "sh" sounds, even though this was not adopted by other speakers of the language.


It still is also peculiar that a gradiant exists, from the "gh" speakers in Eastern Yorubaland, w (and gh) deleters in the center, and w-users in the West.

As for the Yorubas of kogi state, variously called "Kabba,""Okun," etc., political centralization did not develop very far, and no large part was ever dominated by Owo or any other Yoruba (or Edo for that matter) kingdom.  The biggest power players in that area would have been the Nupe kingdom.  (The same applies for many of the Akoko-Yoruba speakers, some of whom share similar dialects).  And yet still, the "gh" (and sometimes the gw) phenomem is found in that area -- look at the title of this youtube video.  In standard (Oyo) Yoruba, it would be rendered as "Ireti wa."

[flash=400,400]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGkQqzLQGsU[/flash]
Culture / Re: Similarities Between Yoruba And Bini (edo) Dancers by lakal(m): 3:54pm On Feb 04, 2012
PhysicsQED:


The truth certainly seems to be that from every available historical source, Benin actually always held that there was another ruler with an Edo title (Oghene) that was important to their kingdom, just like they always held that another kingdom that they had important connections with was called Ogho (not Owo).  I mention this last thing because, if there was not such strong evidence for the earlier, uncorrupted name being Ogho (meaning respect) actually coming from Owo itself, and not just from Benin, people would equally accuse Binis of  also "rewriting" history anytime that they were to claim that the name was Ogho.

In fact, only recently, an Ogho (Owo) author, Chief Fama Aina Adewale Somadhi, produced an Ogho Dictionary. Yet if a Bini had said the name was originally Ogho only on the basis of their own traditional history  (Benin tradition), and that the name was corrupted to Owo in earlier times, they would probably have been accused of bias or fabrication without any real analysis of the claims.

Yet Chief Ashara (the historian of Owo/Ogho) specifically claimed that the name was corrupted and came to be called Owo "because Yoruba cannot pronounce gh" (one can check the article "New Treasures from Nigeria", Expedition, Volume 14, 1972, p.3 by Ekpo O. Eyo for the quote). It is perhaps not at all a coincidence that the few areas where Yorubas use "gh" (called the "voiced velar fricative" by linguists) have definite Edo influence, such as Owo/Ogho and Ilaje, or that the use of the "gh" sound is legion in Edo.

This issue of rewriting of history is not really as simple as you think it is.

I view the Oba of Benin's foray into destroying the Talbot & Egharevba alteration/rewrite as a bold but necessary step towards constructing a more accurate account of the history of the region. That is all. I am not making any claims about "primacy", "subordination", or anything similar or reading that from the story. I have not read anything from the Oba of Benin, or any modern Binis that is really trying to historically "subordinate the Yoruba civilization" to Benin, so I have difficulty viewing this comment as anything other than a misdirected comment.

On the contrary, since I am well aware that there is solid, well established archaeological evidence of civilization (Yoruba civilization) at Oyo many centuries before the events I alluded to involving Borgu, I could not possibly be making the claim you accuse me of making.

I simply did not claim that a "greater civilization" in the hinterland was the source of Oyo or anything else.

Truths such as?

And did I claim that they did?


This is the internet, so sometimes people look at things posted as gospel, there is a need for clarification once again.


"Owo" means the same thing (respect) in Yoruba. The gh factor is not an indicator of Benin influence, because areas like the Kabba in the far northern parts of Yorubaland also use it. It's actually a geographic trend. Eastern Yorubas have the "gh" sound (ogho is money in many Eastern dialects), Central Yorubas eliminate both the gh and w sound (eeo is money in Ekiti Dialect), and Northwest Yorubas, Oyo dialect have replaced "gh" with w. (Owo is money in Oyo Dialect).

Linguists divide Yoruba into Northwest, Southeastern, and Central Dialects, as well as Northeastern and Southwestern. Even though the Southeastern area was heavily influenced by Benin, the gh sound is found in the Northeast, which was not an area of Benin influence.

The difficulty is that the predominant Yoruba dialect of today is the Oyo variety, which is known as the "most innovating," meaning that some of the consonants of proto-Yoruba (gh and gw) have been done away with, and the vowel system has also been simplified from proto-Yoruba.
Culture / Re: Delta Igbo, Bendel Igbo: What Does That Even Mean. by lakal(m): 10:11pm On Jan 08, 2012
PhysicsQED:


The Ikegobo cult or "cult of the hand" in Benin is very likely to be from Ikenga. The Western Igbo immigrants may have brought that with them.





As for the rest of your discussion with Abagworo, I agree with the general sentiment, but maybe not the specifics. You are possibly underestimating the spread of Edo culture. There are pure Edo settlements like Oza nogogo and Alilehan that are only a stone's throw away from Agbor. Yes there was probably Igbo migration both ways, but its really unlikely that there were no actual ethnic Bini migrations whatsoever.


As for the Owa issue, one possible reason a person (such as Agbontaen) might have difficulty accepting the story is because owa is a basic Edo (Bini) word which means house and there is a pure Edo community called Owa (now named Evbuobanosa) in Orhionmwon LGA in Edo state. It should therefore be pretty easy to see why Agbontaen could claim that although they received later elements from other cultures, their basic foundation was from Benin. I read a more complex derivation of Owa from Ute Okpu in one of the earlier debates here, and it's entirely possible, but perhaps not as convincing. But I think "Owa" is a word in multiple Nigerian languages, not just Edo, anyway.

You aren't the only ones making such arguments, though. Nowadays Ogho is called Owo, although as Chief Ashara (the Owo historian) and even the current Olowo of Owo attested to, the original name was Ogho (which is actually a non-Yoruba word (the "gh" sound, called the "voiced velar fricative" by linguists, is completely alien to Yoruba and is only found in areas of Edo influence such as Ogho/Owo and Ilaje) and just so happens to be a pure Bini word which means respect). Of course today, Owo is considered wholly Yoruba in origin and any Edo influence is chalked up to Oba Ewuare or Oba Ozolua's conquests and expansion, not to an early Edo element in the founding population. Chief Egharevba, and of course, the Binis in general, believed the exact opposite however.


"Owo" means the same thing in Yoruba. The gh factor is not an indicator of Benin influence, because areas like the Kabba in the far northern parts of Yorubaland also use it. It's actually a geographic trend. Eastern Yorubas have the "gh" sound (ogho is money in many Eastern dialects), Central Yorubas eliminate both the gh and w sound (eeo is money in Ekiti Dialect), and Northwest Yorubas, Oyo dialect have replaced "gh" with w. (Owo is money in Oyo Dialect).

Linguists divide Yoruba into Northwest, Southeastern, and Central Dialects, as well as Northeastern and Southwestern. Even though the Southeastern area was heavily influenced by Benin, the gh sound is found in the Northeast, which was not an area of Benin influence.

The difficulty is that the predominant Yoruba dialect of today is the Oyo variety, which is known as the "most innovating," meaning that some of the consonants of proto-Yoruba (gh and gw) have been done away with, and the vowel system has also been simplified from proto-Yoruba.
Culture / Re: What Is The Traditional Music From Your Town/state Like? by lakal(m): 4:55am On Dec 05, 2011
Cultural Groups from Ekiti and Ogun states (Egba):

They are speaking Ekiti heavy in the background in the beginning first minutes grin

[flash=500,400]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_y3EYoaGhcY[/flash]
Culture / Re: What Is The Traditional Music From Your Town/state Like? by lakal(m): 4:49am On Dec 05, 2011
Both of these examples are from Idanre, Ondo State:


"Woro" Music
[flash=500,400]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4g9qJ9Rf-mQ[/flash]



Traditional praise singing in honor of Gov. Mimiko
[flash=500,400]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Dfg_JaO5Dc&feature=related[/flash]
Culture / Re: Nigerian Woman Are More Beautiful Then East Africans by lakal(m): 11:56pm On Nov 16, 2011
So AAs are all universally proud of their blackness and don't bleach?

Skin color issues are a problem across the diaspora.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/16/health/16skin.html?pagewanted=all

[img]http://“Sociological studies have shown among African-Americans and also Latinos, there’s a clear connection between skin color and socioeconomic status. It’s not some fantasy. There is prejudice against dark-skinned people, especially women in the so-called marriage market.”[/img]
Culture / Re: Nigerian Woman Are More Beautiful Then East Africans by lakal(m): 5:19am On Nov 16, 2011
BlackLibya:

Dude I have gone to schools that are 98% black and I can promise you that no one bleached. Bleaching for african americans is generally limited to acne scars. The AA experience revolves around the idea that black is beautiful, black power, and complaining about the white man. Most people bleaching are from the Carribean, Africa, India, or Southeast Asia. I didnt even know bleaching existed until I walked in an African store. In school we are taught that ended in the 1920s


When colorism is a huge problem for AAs.  How many dark-skinned big time AA actresses can you name?  Gbenu e dake jor!
Culture / Re: The Art And Architecture Of Yorubaland! by lakal(m): 4:42am On Nov 16, 2011
TerraCotta:

Great photos, Lakal.

On Yoruba weapons--there's a short book by JFA Ajayi and Robert Smith called "Yoruba Warfare in the 19th Century" that has a lot of useful information on warriors and their equipment at that time.

Excellent book.
Culture / Re: Nigerian Woman Are More Beautiful Then East Africans by lakal(m): 4:33am On Nov 16, 2011
BlackLibya:


Also, I see u missed it when I said,

If Ethiopians bleach in Ethiopia(and I have heard they do) I dont care, because in my country they dont bleach nor sell the cremes.



I live in the US, in a city with a huge Ethiopian population.  You're most definitely wrong . . .


Americans bleach sef.  What do you think Ambi is?
Culture / Re: Are Igbos Culturally Fused ? by lakal(m): 12:11am On Nov 16, 2011
odumchi:

Could you give me an example of when they aren't?

"All the same" seems to suggest that they are identical practices, not merely very similar ones.  Is that true for any large African group?
Culture / Re: Are Igbos Culturally Fused ? by lakal(m): 12:09am On Nov 16, 2011
For both igbos and Yorubas, language is important, but it's really about similar cultural habits IMO (similar, not identical).


Thre are both groups of people who speak the Igbo and Yoruba languages but are generally recognized as not truly belonging to the groups.  Opobo/Bonny for Igbos, and Apoi for Yorubas, for example.
Culture / Re: Are Igbos Culturally Fused ? by lakal(m): 12:04am On Nov 16, 2011
odumchi:

Igbo dialects are similar to each other.
Religion, culture and names, and social structure are all the same for all.

Really?
Culture / Re: Nigerian Woman Are More Beautiful Then East Africans by lakal(m): 11:54pm On Nov 15, 2011
BlackLibya:

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-803442.0.html

As much as you and crayola try to claim different, this young lady hits on exactly what im talking about here when it comes to west africans.

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-803442.0.html

East Africans(the whole of east Africa) that I have met are all taught their native languages. It is an embarassment if they are approached and cannot speak it in my country.

Speaking at least for Kenya, there are many young Kenyans who don't speak their native language well, or even KiSwahili all that well, many young people speak what's known as "Sheng" (slang).
Culture / Re: Nigerian Woman Are More Beautiful Then East Africans by lakal(m): 11:51pm On Nov 15, 2011
So Ethiopians don't use bleaching cream or perms? lmao.
Culture / Re: The Art And Architecture Of Yorubaland! by lakal(m): 5:14am On Nov 14, 2011
Some ceremonial and real weapons were also posted on page 5 of this thread:

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-770881.128.html
Culture / Re: The Art And Architecture Of Yorubaland! by lakal(m): 5:08am On Nov 14, 2011
[img]http://1.bp..com/_bUlZdWxNK7M/S1akIlyqBaI/AAAAAAAAAEY/2zDQHyON2Wg/s1600/swords.jpg[/img]

(below is via Wiki, so take with a grain of iyo)

The Ida is a kind of sword used by the Yoruba people of West Africa. It is a long sword with a narrow to wide blade and sheathe. The sword is sharp, and cuts on contact but begins to dull if not sharpened regularly. It can be single-edged or double-edged.

During wars, pepper and poison are added to it to paralyze anyone who is cut by the sword. It can be wielded in any way (either one-handed or two-handed). The Yoruba people use this sword for hunting, war and other uses. The blade of the sword is in an elongated leaf-shaped form. It is designed for cutting and hacking.

There were many other variations of the Ida. The Yoruba also used many other bladed-weapons.

Some of them were;

Ada—Used for clearing brush, fighting, or hunting. It is similar to a cutlass or machete.
Obe—Daggers carried by the Yoruba soldiers.
Agedengbe—Single-bladed and eccentrically curved. Also quite heavy.
Tanmogayi—Similar to the sabre.
Culture / Re: The Art And Architecture Of Yorubaland! by lakal(m): 1:47am On Nov 14, 2011
tpia@:



^^i suspect it could have multiple symbolism, due to the 123 nails studded in it.

usually, phallic symbols/obelisks tend to be plain, with maybe some graphics.

the legend says oranmiyan's sons erected it after his death.

that would tie in with his travels, like those of his father, and whatever quest led them to found kingdoms.

also, obelisks are usually four sided. It would be nice to know why this one is round.

You have to remember that the authors of that text compared the Opa Oranmiyan to very similar shapes found elsewhere in Ile-Ife.  There are smaller stone conical shapes found at places like Ogun Oke Mogun, used in Ogun worship.  Even the conical shape is found in certain Ife terracottas, such as this one.

[img]http://www.mcah.columbia.edu/dbcourses/africa/thumb/africa1_066.jpg[/img]

With our non-written traditions, we cannot definitively state what the Opa Oraniyan was built or not built for.  Even if it was raised by Oranmiyan's sons after his death, it might have additional ritual or artistic significance that we do not know.

On the symbolic issue, at least in India, many of their phallic symbols (lingam) are decorated or carved, so that is not to say that it [b]must [/b]be plain.
Culture / Re: The Art And Architecture Of Yorubaland! by lakal(m): 1:35am On Nov 14, 2011
On the "Opa Oranmiyan."






Carved of granite gneiss, Opa Oranmiyan stands over 18 feet (plus 1 foot underground) and is studded over much of its length with spiral-headed iron nails arranged in a three-pronged forklike configuration.  Where they branch into three lines, a low-relief, open, rectangular form rises from the surface of the stone.  This arrangement of nails is probably not merely decorative, but has a symbolic significance that has been lost over the centuries.  Each nail would have been laboriously inserted into the granite before the stela was raised.

The stela, like several others associated with Ogun at Ife (Figure 49), which vary in height from 1 to 4 feet at various sites in the town, is phallic in form.  A hole and engraved lines at the tip of the Oranmiyan "staff" confirm its phallic identity.  This general conical shape may relate all these stelae to the cone-shaped icons (see Chapter 1), and to conical forms associated with heads in terracotta (see Figure 66).

From Yoruba: Nine Centuries of African Art and Thought
Culture / Re: The Art And Architecture Of Yorubaland! by lakal(m): 1:25am On Nov 14, 2011
^^The Opa Oranmiyan is thought to be a phallic symbol, similar to other, smaller obelisks found at Ife. These smaller phallic symbols are used in Ogun worship, representing Ogun's masculine nature, according to the below book "Yoruba: Nine Centuries of African Art and Thought."



An excellent book for those who want to know about the art and aesthetics of the Yoruba people is "Yoruba: Nine Centuries of African Art and Thought" by Henry John Drewal and John Pemberton III with Rowland Abiodun.
Culture / Re: BBC's Documentary On The 'Bronze Cast Head Of The Ife King' by lakal(m): 8:41pm On Nov 13, 2011
@PhysicsQED, very interesting comparison, was that in the Ancient Egypt in Africa book?


About whether it represents Obatala or a diseased man, it could possibly be both, as Obatala was supposed to be the patron of the deformed and disabled in Yoruba mythology.
Culture / Re: BBC's Documentary On The 'Bronze Cast Head Of The Ife King' by lakal(m): 4:52pm On Nov 13, 2011
tpia@:



do you know more about the worship of osangangan.

i noticed most of the ifa divination trays are shaped like the sun, or cosmos. Some even have "rays" on the outer circumference.

also, do you know anything about the osupa [moon]  lineage found in parts of yorubaland.


No real knowledge from me on either -- here is a small quote about Osangangan being a deity. 

http://books.google.com/books?id=zMiV__25izEC&pg=PA49&lpg=PA49&dq=osangangan+deity&source=bl&ots=NVRn_EDOHT&sig=y_Kh9UD7T92X2rS0dgSjezOuaHQ&hl=en&ei=-uS_TpmRHIfj0QGbg_T0BA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CB8Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false

The worship of noon, sun, moon, mountains, rivers, etc are all representative of an animistic religion.  Every natural feature in Yorubaland could be traditionally revered as a deity.


However I do know that the expression "osangangan" is used among Yorubas to refer to both the high noon time, as well as a climatic point. "Aiye l'a ba Ifa, Aiye l'a ba Imale, Osan gangan ni Igbagbo wole."   (Ifa existed before us, Islam existed before us, Afternoon is when Christianity came)
Culture / Re: BBC's Documentary On The 'Bronze Cast Head Of The Ife King' by lakal(m): 1:45pm On Nov 12, 2011
exotik:

wot does this name mean in yoruba? this sounds edoid to me.



Yoruba names are tonal (osan gan gan could also mean an orange  cheesy), however,



Osangangan = "High Noon" or mid-day.   The "high noon" was also worshiped as a deity, Osangangan. (Osan gan gan)
Obamakin = The King brings the brave one (Oba mu akin)


(Sur)Names like Ademakin, Ademakinwa, and Olumakin(wa), Ogunmakinde, Ogunmakinwa etc, are still common.
Culture / Re: The Root Of The Name "bini' - Taught By Exotic by lakal(m): 5:06pm On Nov 11, 2011
The native name for the people and the city of Benin was "Edo." 

"Ubinu" is not an Edo usage; that name came from the Itsekiris, whose lands bordered the Benin Kingdom's, and who were heavily influenced by the Benin Kingdom.  The Portuguese learned the name "Ubinu" from the coast dwellers and applied it to the city they were in contact with.

The "Ile Ibinu" comes from the Yoruba account of Oranmiyan.
Culture / Re: Pictures Of OBI Of Onitsha Doing Ofala Ceremony by lakal(m): 5:44am On Nov 09, 2011
NRI PRIEST:

Lakal,its either you have accepted defeat on the claims you made about benin influence or you didnt read my posts!!
As for Ileke Idi she will rather start playing dumb than to accept defeat.
Even your yoruba king went as far as wearing the slave masters HAT so he can feel like he is a king. Obulu ogwu nya elena.


Sometimes, it's just not worth it.
Culture / Re: Pictures Of OBI Of Onitsha Doing Ofala Ceremony by lakal(m): 4:22am On Nov 09, 2011
ezeagu:

I would never have been able to tell which of those men was Yoruba.

cheesy
Culture / Re: Pictures Of OBI Of Onitsha Doing Ofala Ceremony by lakal(m): 3:52am On Nov 09, 2011
^^ Ileke, the chief in red with the women next to him is a Benin chief, the Obasogie of Benin.  Just a point of correction.  I was merely comparing him to some of the attires at the Okpala festival.
Culture / Re: Pictures Of OBI Of Onitsha Doing Ofala Ceremony by lakal(m): 3:44am On Nov 09, 2011
Sorry o, the guy I identified as a chief is the Obi of Onitsha.  No disrepect intended.  Another look at the Obi.

www.nairaland.com/attachments/566784_OBI_IN_HIS_THRONE_jpg5dd7eb6f18ba50a22834f521bcd2c9b4
Culture / Re: Pictures Of OBI Of Onitsha Doing Ofala Ceremony by lakal(m): 3:36am On Nov 09, 2011
www.nairaland.com/attachments/566771_IGWE_ALFRED_jpgae7897c4cc0cd61de82f5d4cd35a36bd


^^ Look at this Onitsha chief and tell me the attire of the Benin chief above is not [b]very [/b]similar.
Culture / Re: Pictures Of OBI Of Onitsha Doing Ofala Ceremony by lakal(m): 3:28am On Nov 09, 2011
ezeagu:

Bring up a picture of a Benin king and the only things that are similar with the chiefs (Ozo) and Obi are their corals and swords, everything else has a root in some Igbo culture, maybe except for some other minor details. Idu means Benin City, yes the Onicha clan migrated from Benin city. Yes they have cultural relics from Edo culture, such as some of their names and some other things. No, they are not acculturated clearly seeing from the fact that the Obi is supported by Ọzọ, an Nri establishment.

Excuse my unfamiliarity with al aspects of Igbo culture, but where else (except other parts of Western Igboland) do Igbo chiefs and obis wear the "Puffy" (for lack of a better term) type of wrapper that Benin chiefs and Oba wear?

[img]http://4.bp..com/_ytgJBaeUgnk/SSLYo4oMgJI/AAAAAAAAAE8/1uK-v9Zjm3U/s400/chief+and+dancers.jpg[/img]
Culture / Re: Pictures Of OBI Of Onitsha Doing Ofala Ceremony by lakal(m): 3:19am On Nov 09, 2011
ezeagu:

Oh, one word aint acculturation, I'm talking changing peoples traditional attire, even their name sef.

Because Yoruba people invented white clothes.

Now she's coming for lace and ankara. Next it will be blouse and headtie, you know, all originated from Yoruba land.

Oba of London

[center][/center]

Borrow, borrow.

O'boy, you are entering dangerous territory.  

Let's look at this festival.  The traditional clothing looks similar to other cultural groups' own, especially those of the Obi/Chiefs and a certain empire across the Niger. . .

"Onitsha Ado n'Idu."  I don't speak Igbo, so could you tell me what the "idu" in Onitsha means?  Because I believe I know, but I just want to be sure. . .
Culture / Re: Pictures Of OBI Of Onitsha Doing Ofala Ceremony by lakal(m): 3:14am On Nov 09, 2011
Ileke ma ja ile o, Ileke ma ja oko, Ileke o!  How many times did I call your name?


You are a troublemaker for real, smh.

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