ezeagu:

What are the words?

Isn't "yabasi" Igbo for onion?


The Yoruba and Igbo words for onion are derived from the Arabic "Al-basal."

But let's not digress, for real. I was really enjoying the thread, it seems like an eminent tradition, and one that is going strong in Onitsha.

I think most Yorubas who are educated are aware of elements of Islamic acculturation within the general culture. Even for those of us who are Christians.

Hell, the words for:

peace (alaafia)
Thursday (alamisi)
Friday (jimoh)
usefulness (anfani)
onion (alubosa)
secret (ashiri)


among many are all Arabic words.

But the Igbo word for onion seems to have come from Arabic too, una sef dey acculturate small

Everyone borrows, and it's not suggesting that one group is inferior if adopts the attire of another.  

Agbada from the Sahelian regions to Western and Northern Nigeria
"George"  from the Delta to much of Southern Nigeria.
Edo wrappers/swords to the Aniomas and Onitshas.

The attire of the Onitsha people pictured here is great and an example of a rich cultural heritage.  It appears identical to the attire I have seen in Anioma festivities (akwa ocha, coral beads, oto-ogwu), and has similarities with the Edo people.

TerraCotta, na you biko. Thanks for responding.

tpia@:

^^true, but i think the esie sculptures are more recent- like 18th century or so.

The Esie sculptures (soapstone) were found by the local villagers some centuries ago. Their dating is not complete, but most estimates place them as at least cotemporary with the Ife Classical Period (12th-15th Century).

tpia@:

^^good points.


however, the ife bronzes have to be grouped separately from later works because the style is very unique and different.

isnt esie in kwara or niger state?

It's in Kwara state, located between Ife and Ilorin. The local people are Yorubas (Igbomina Yoruba), therefore they are part of the same cultural milieu.

tpia@:

are you sure about the bolded.

it's possible i guess- the terracottas and bronzes seem to be from the same general period but the stone works predate them, i believe.

there's also a mention of big lumps of iron ore scattered around ife at various locations- probably the forges i'm guessing.

they werent considered important by early archaeologists because the function wasnt known and they werent sculpted or cast into any specific form.

Yep. The stone figures from Esie are not definitely dated, but some accounts place them as contemporary with the Ife classical period.

- The quartz stool and stone figure of "Idena" are from the Ife Classical Period.

- Yoruba artists also used soapstone as a carving material -- I posted a soapstone figure from the 18th Century in this thread.

- Bronzework continued, at least with the Ogboni society, until colonization.

- Woodcarving is an art form that doesn't preserve well, especially in the West African tropics. You're not going to find 12th Century woodwork, not because it never existed, but because it is not likely to have been preserved that long.

tpia@:

opa oranyan again.

[img]http://2.bp..com/_RoWOOM0kwmc/TEXr6VlVjrI/AAAAAAAAAa0/tR0L545JU8k/s1600/assentamento+de+Oranian.bmp[/img]

i think the different artworks can be divided into different periods of ife art.

there are stone sculptures.

bronze figures

terracotta works.

wood [modern] art is most commonly associated with current obas, secret societies, and perhaps some basic everyday uses like doors and stools, for example.

lastly we have cloth, which is also more modern. Sometimes decorated with beads to indicate rotalty or wealth.

True, but I don't think that it can be that neatly divided. In most of Yoruba history, all of these materials were used concurrently. What is true is that styles did change over time.

exotik:

For example the word BINI is from   the Itsekhiri's "Ubinu".

well, the guy said it was an itsekhiri word only to later say it was a yoruba word. so why cant u guys come up with one story? is it a yoruba word or an itsekhiri word?

Is omo a Yoruba word or an Edo word?

Is biko an Igbo word or an Urhobo word?

Seeing as Yoruba and Itsekiri are very closely related (some Yoruba dialects are extremely similar to Itsekiri), why couldn't it mean the same thing in both?    "Ibinu" in Yoruba simply means "vexation."


You just like to argue.

exotik:

lakal, twas a typo. so it no longer came from oranmiyan, ryt? or oranmiyan was itsekhiri?

You're not making any sense. What kind of leap of logic is that??

exotik:

well, dats simple. the owo are yoruba-speaking people abi? and the ife are yoruba-speaking people. so why would owo terracotta look like dat if bini who are not yoruba-speaking people? even though we can all draw with pencil on paper today, which is clearly a european influence, would you draw the olowo of owo  who is ethnically yoruba to look like prince charles who is ethnically english? no!

There are other aspects of Owo culture that show a Benin influence.  I'm just saying the terracottas do not appear to be one of them.

exotik:

of course, i know it is not homogenous coz no group has a homogenous culture. but why are the supposed influences always claimed to come from the yoruba side? what were the others doing? sleeping? i have even read attempts where yorubas would claim dat the beautiful bini hair style worn by the oba's wives may have been a yoruba influence because some yorubas who were under bini wear it too, but forgeting that some igbos also wear that hair style?

and btw, "ubinu" was always said to be a yoruba word meaning so-called "land of vexation" because oranmiyan could not rule bini due to the angry nature of the people. so when he was leaving, he called  it ile ubini -- the land of vexation. LMAO!! it is only recently i have been reading dat it is actually an itsekiri word and not a yoruba word. so wot does ubinu mean in itsekiri? cos i take it you are itsekhiri?

Actually the correct phrase is "ile ibinu."  Ubinu and ibinu look to be variations of the same word --- especially since Itsekiri is a derivative of the Yoruboid languages.

Mythical founder of Benin Bronze tradition: Iguegha

Mythical founder of Ife Bronze tradition: Obalufon




I find it very interesting that an advance like this is attributed solely to one person. Was that really the case?

Chyz*:

It has a lot to do with it if your talking about bronze casting. And if you are from a bordering town it doesnt mean you know the place like that you probably grew up in lagos i bet.

I know the place. My grandma is from there even. I know about Igogo, Orensen (Orosun) and other important Owo traditions.

I was talking about terracotta -- why would Benin influence Owo in that regard, especially if Owo terracottas look like Ife ones?

Owo terracotta:

Chyz*:

The society was put together way after the ife claim. I never saif ife was the only yoruba place to practice bronze casting. I asked if ife wss the only area in yorubaland practicing bronze casting at the time. Owo has major bini influence btw, google them.

Why should I google Owo, when I'm from a town that has a boundary with Owo? lmao.

Cultural influences, one way or another, really has nothing to do with anything I said.

Bronze casting was practiced in many areas of West Africa; the most famous examples only come from a few locations.


Chyz, if you are saying that only Ife in Yorubaland developed bronze casting, you'd be incorrect. The Ogboni society, among others, used bronze casting heavily. However the naturalistic bronzes were produced solely in Ife (naturalistic terracottas were also found in Owo).

tpia@:


i think the first one is wearing a crown. The three tiers are typical of some other crowns on the terracottas and bronzes. Will examine it more closely but it looks like a crown.

the second one has a scarf or head covering on. Its knotted in front.

I thought so, but the first one seams to have plaited hair underneath the "crown." It might be a headress, but it would appear that the hair is visible underneath it.


Even if the second one is a headscarf (it does appear to be knotted), those are clearly strings of beads.

Chyz*:

Read, learn, then STFU. Your emotions aren't going to change the facts. Too bad for you:

http://www.waado.org/Organizations/UHS/WarriPeaceCongress/BackgroundPapers/IjawBackgroundPaper.htm

I don't think that[b] I'm[/b] the one getting emotional.

Chyz*:

And im sure "Igbo" means something else in other African languages too but you are forgetting that yoruba is not beside igbos so that name didnt come from them. Also, that name "Igbo" has been in existance even before the supposed "birth" of the yoruba people. . . .The itsekiri on the other hand were neighbors of the ijaw and were made enemies to the ijaw. It is a word used by the Ijaw to describe the itsekiri. My guess is that the europeans just used it to name their tribe. Anybody who knows ijaws knows that thats an ijaw word/name, so is Warri although warri is not ijaw land.

Find out how the name came abt. It has nothing to do with blessing.

1.) Hausa is not beside Yoruba, and yet the name came from Hausas, supposedly. So that point is dead.

2.) How do you if the word "igbo" is or isn't older than what are now known as the Igbo people?

3.) Again, just because it means something in Ijaw, does not mean that it can't mean something in itsekiri. You don't even know if the tones are the same, I bet.

4.) Warri is not an Ijaw word, and Ijaws don't claim it to be either. Ownership of Warri is a different matter.

Chyz*:

If you don't believe me go ask an Ijo or better yet, just google it.

Just cause it means something In Ijo does not mean that it has the same meaning in Itsekiri. "Igbo" is a word in Yoruba, but it is not the meaning of the Igbo ethnic group.


What if "Itsekiri" means Blessing everywhere or Blessing througout the land in Itsekiri?

exotik:

and that is why when i say u are deluded, it is actually true and you have proven to be a true r3tard because those little voices in your head keep telling u some dumb shyt and u come here to spew it. but here is what was "actually" said

"Igbo-Ukwu brasses, one is of an elephant head, and those are about a thousand years old, and they prove that this was an autonomous African tradition"

the significance of that statement are:

1) they are older – meaning igbo-ukwu had the knowledge before ife
2) they prove that it is an indigenous tradition.

now, if it was not to prove influence, why did they add it there?  imperial ife ke? did ife have any military might? lol

and cant u see it was really nri that influenced ife? coz nri didnt have any military might either. they were both weak azzes who got easily conquered by who? the "edomites"   edo-mights

When was either Ife or Nri conquered by anyone else?

I think both of you are reading too deep into it.

tpia@:

the traditional hairstyle for oloris is the suku braid, i believe.

these days i dont think most of them do it anymore but i remember hearing that when i was a kid.



also, could you post the images of the particular female sculptures you're referring to, since some of them actually are wearing crowns.

Couldn't find a modern picture, but I'm referring to how Olori decorate their braided hair with strings of beads.


Two terracottas that seem to show that:

No image on the net of Obalufon's crown (Ade Obalufon), but here is a link to a book dealing in part with that subject:


http://books.google.com/books?id=yYGmzjnR3vsC&pg=PA78&lpg=PA78&dq=crown+of+obalufon&source=bl&ots=CfiXlY-4lk&sig=7E9-MOBZB0_doozPJswjPq0ikAo&hl=en&ei=UMKxTubeKcWQsQKo8OXmAQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3&ved=0CDEQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q&f=false


Obalufon is credited with introducing bronze casting at Ife, as well as the settlement where the Ade Obalufon was made, Obo Aiyegunle.