₦airaland Forum

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Double posts

^^^^^
You've got mail.
One last question brother,the hadith of Ismail that you keep quoting that says 'We were young,should we get ourselves castrated?' was only narrated on the authority of Ismail only,can we also say it is Mufrad and should be rejected since it's single handedly narrated like that of Al-Juhani?

Walaikum Salam Waramatulah Wabarakatuh dear sister,may Allah in his mercy grants you safe delivery.Akeelah means intelligent,logical one who reasons. Never heard of Delisha,some people do love sweet names but what matter most is the meaning of the name .

Empiree:
^^^ Okay, shukran. I am still waiting for the those in support of "misyar marriage" to respond before i state my opinion on this issue. I will wait for them for one more day inshallah.

You will have to wait for years dear brother,as brother Vedaxcool rightly opined 'misyar marriage' will always be saudi arabia's problem .

AlBaqir:
As per Umar declaring Mut'a to be Harram! Your defense:
Ma sha Allah! @underlined words. Had it been the holy prophet (peace be on him and his progeny) really and truly addressed people at the conquest of Makkah as claimed by Ibn Sabra al-Juhanni, why were people continue with the practice of Mut'a long after the demise of the holy prophet (peace be on him and his progeny) as indicated in the above statement of yours so much so that Umar finally "declared and taught it to be haram" and threaten to stone whoever practice mut'a?

Because people practised it after the demise of the Prophet(pbuh) doesn't make it halal except in the cases in which the Prophet(pbuh) permitted(i.e. War time and expedition).People reverted to Kufr after the demise of the Prophet(pbuh) though they have believed before,that doesn't make Kufr halal.

Do you notice the hadith I quoted above which Jabir Ibn Abdullah and Salman Bin Akwa said ''I do not know whether that was only for us or for all the people in general'',this is where the doubt comes in.Some may think the permissibilty was for all circumstances,not knowing it was specific.Some people will find it easier to commit Muta'a over and over again with different women than to get married.So people practising it may be borne out of desire for it or being afraid of getting married.

AlBaqir: Were these people disobeying the "order of their prophet"?
No doubt Umar, Ibn Abbas, Abdullah ibn Umar, Ibn Mas'ud, Imran ibn hussain, jabir ibn Abdullah et al were all present at the conquest of Makkah. Why was any of them EVER made mention of the prohibition on the day Makkah was conquered?

Jabir Ibn Abdullah made mentioned of it.

AlBaqir: Dear lanrexlan, Here's one version of your statement, the narration goes like this:
"Urwah ibn Zubair narrated that khulah bint Hakim came to Umar Ibn al-Khattab and said: Rabi'ah Ibn Umayyah practiced Mut'a with a woman and the woman has become pregnant from him. Umar became angry and said: "About this Mut'a, had I done (the ban) sooner than this, I would have stoned him."
~al-Muwatta, Imam Malik ibn Anas, vol. 2 p.30 On the topic of Mut'a; Sunan al-Kubra, al-Bayhaqi vol.7 p. 206
This is yet a clear indication that prophet did not forbade Mut'a but Umar does. Just like in the word of his son, Abdullah, are we to follow Umar or the Sunnah of the prophet?
*******************************

Umar(r.a) prohibited it because people didn't practise in the proper ways the Prophet(pbuh) gave.The people thought the permissibilty of Muta'a was for all in all circumstances(The statement :'We didn't know if this permissibilty is for us or everybody'),not knowing it was for specific purposes and not when people are free to marry or fast.
In short,the Prophet(pbuh) prohibited it after war time,people thought Muta'a can be practised when there's no war nor expedition and thus engaged in it misusing it.Umar(r.a) banned it as people couldn't even practised it properly.

AlBaqir: As per abusing the practice thereby Umar thought it wise to forbid it, should we forbid Multiple marriage because of the fact that people have abused the practice esp in this society? Muslim's home with Multiple marriage is worse. No care for wives or children, in fact, each wife fend for their respective survival with children.
Just like a verse was revealed for multiple marriage which legalized it, also a verse was revealed for mut'a for its legislation thereby nobody not even prophet (peace be on him and his progeny) can rule against the verse except Allah Himself reveal another verse to abrogate it.
Whoever abuse a practice will face the punishment alone with Allah. That is not the yardstick to make what Allah allowed as forbidden.
"It is not for a believer, man or woman, when Allah and His Messenger have decreed a matter that they should have any option in their decision. And whoever disobeys Allah and His Messenger, he has indeed strayed in a plain error." ~al-Ahzab:36

Islam is very clear of polygamy,if you can't do justice then marry only one.The Prophet(pbuh) was very clear on Muta'a,if you can't keep your desire then fast(war free) and if it's during war time,then Muta'a can be performed for 3 nights and which it's over.

AlBaqir: Beautiful ayah but I honestly don't understand why you quote it. Elaborate please.
Thanks for your time. Wa salam alaykum.

It appears that after Allah Almighty forbade Muta on the Prophet(pbuh) in that verse and one can infer that the Prophet(pbuh) in turn forbade it on the Muslims.
You are welcome brother
Walaikum Salam Waramatulah Wabarakatuh.

AlBaqir: Salam dear brother. Jumu'a Mubarak in arrears. Hope school things is going on smooth. Success is yours bi quwatih wa izzatih wa Jalalih.

Walaikum Salam Waramatulah Wabarakatuh brother.Alhamudulilah,school is good.Shukran dear brother.

AlBaqir: Report attributed to Sabra al-Juhani that at the conquest of Makkah (8/9A.H), it was forbidden FOREVER till the day of judgment . You've qouted many of those reports and affirm it was forbidden forever on the day of conquest of Makkah. Then, what happened after the conquest of Makkah (8/9A.H)? This hadith revealed:
1. Narrated Iyas ibn Salama on the authority of his father that Allah's Messenger (peace be upon him) gave sanction for contracting temporary marriage for three nights in the year of Autas (this was after the battle of Hunain in 8H)and then forbade it.
Note: The sentence inside parenthesis is the translator's footnote. ~Sahih Muslim, English version vol2 tradition #3251 chap. DXLI (titled: Temporary Marriage) ~Sahih Muslim, Arabic version 1980 Edition pub in Saudi Arabia, vol.2 p.1023, hadith #18, "kitab al- Nikah, Bab Nikah al-Mut'a. Battle of Hunain was after the conquest of Makkah which took place in 9/10A.H and not 8A.H as the translator insinuated. However, whichever date it is, Hunain was after Fath Makkah How is it possible for Mut'a to be forbidden FOREVER at khaibar, then allowed at conquest of Makkah, then forbidden FOREVER after the conquest of Makkah, then allowed at Hunain?

Good observations AlBaqir,but do you notice something? That the permissibilty of Muta'a was allowed by the Prophet(pbuh)during war time? According to all the narrations you and I quoted,the Prophet(pbuh) permitted Muta'a for 3 nights during wars and then prohibited it perhaps when the need for it recur during war time,he makes it permissible.
When there is no war,the Prophet(pbuh) was reported to have said on the authority of Alqama: While I was walking with 'Abdullah he said, "We were in the company of the Prophet and he said, 'He who can afford to marry should marry, because it will help him refrain from looking at other women, and save his private parts from looking at other women, and save his private parts from committing illegal sexual relation;and he who cannot afford to marry is advised to fast, as fasting willDiminishhis sexual power
This was the prescriptions of the Prophet(pbuh) when there was no war.Let's put this under rational thinking dear brother.During war time,warriors in the battle field won't be able to fast because they need strength to fight in the battle field,their wives is not around also thus their sexual urge will be there,not diminished.So it's very ideal for them to practise Muta'a as it will helped them from keeping away from Zina or sleeping with women forcefully.

But when there's no war,the Prophet(pbuh) prescribed fasting for diminishing sexual urge of people who aren't marry.The Prophet(pbuh) didn't say:'Those of you who can't marry should engage in temporary marriage',he knew people will misuse the concept if not during war time.
Hope you are getting my drift brother?

AlBaqir: Third,if we are to be strict with Sunni 'ilm hadith (science of hadith), the report of Ibn Sabra al- Juhanni is rated as 'Mufrad or wahid (single) i.e all those reports about prohibition of Mut'a at conquest of Makkah, although through different chain of authority, all go back to Ibn Sabra himself. There is no Shawahid! Ibn Sabra, in sahih Muslim vol. 2, chp. DXLI (titled: temporary marriage), Tradition #3256; Arabic version vol. 2 p.1025 Tradition #21, narrated those versions you have quoted with these additional info: "I saw Allah's Messenger standing between the pillar and gate of ka'ba when speaking the hadith" So, how is possible that this hadith of prohibition of Mut'a at the conquest of Makkah was narrated ONLY by Ibn Sabra al-Juhanni while other speeches of the holy prophet (peace be on him and his progeny) at the conquest of Makkah were narrated through different narrators? Interestingly, Ibn Sabra claimed 'it was an open declaration' as indicated^ There was no even a single witness for his narration even with a weak chain. That makes Ibn Sabra's hadith suspected. Then his grandfather (who was also part of the chain) was never known or quoted by any.

Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah and Salama bin Al- Akwa': "While we were in an army, Allah's Apostle came to us and said, "You have been allowed to do the Mut'a (marriage), so do it." Salama bin Al-Akwa' said: Allah's Apostle's said, "If a man and a woman agree (to marry temporarily), their marriage should last for three nights, and if they like to continue, they can do so; and if they want to separate, they can do so." I do not know whether that was only for us or for all the people in general.Abu Abdullah (Al-Bukhari) said: 'Ali made it clear that the Prophet said, "The Mut'a marriage has been cancelled (made unlawful)." (Sahih Bukhari,Book of Nikaah,Volume 7,Book 62, Number 52)

This narration is not from Al-Juhani,probably it was during the conquest of Makkah.

AlBaqir: No not only during war. On the authority of Ismail with the same chain of transmitter as 'the hadith of permissibility during war': "We were young so we said: 'O Allah's Apostle! Should we not have ourselves castrated?" The narrator did not say we were on an expedition. ~Sahih Muslim, English version, vol. 2 chap.DXLI, (Titled: Temporary marriage), Tradition #3245. ~~Sahih Muslim, Arabic version 1980 Edition pub in Saudi Arabia, vol.2 p.1022, hadith #12, "kitab al- Nikah, Bab Nikah al-Mut'a. Apart from this, after the demise of the prophet, NO WAR, NO EXPEDITION when Ibn Abbas, Ibn Umar, Ibn Mas'ud, Jabir Ibn Abdullah, Imran ibn Hussain et al, sanctioned and maintained Mut'a is permitted as indicated in several mentioned hadith.

This is another version of the Hadith.
Narrated Abdullah (b. Mas'ud) reported: We were on an expedition with Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) and we had no women with us. We said: Should we not have ourselvesCastrated? He (the Holy Prophet) forbade us to do so He then granted us permission that we should contract temporary marriage for a stipulated period giving her a garment, and 'Abdullah then recited this verse: 'Those who believe do not make unlawful the good things which Allah has made lawful for you, and do not transgress. Allah does not like trangressers" (al-Qur'an, v. 87)

So they were on an expedition,Muta'a can also be performed when the Muslim men used to also travel for long months and have no access to their spouses.
We haven't seen a single hadith that supports Muta'a when there's no expedition or war.

AlBaqir:
In the 'ilm hadith' according to Sunni standard, two things are needed to be study for the validity of hadith: "Sanadul Hadith (chain of transmission) and Matn-ul hadith (content of the hadith)". The problem is many Sunni scholars and students only study the chain and not the content. Then, the 'infallibility' status given to sahih al-Bukhari and Muslim blind-fold many scholars to see loopholes. Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani in his Fath Bari and Sheik Nasir deen Al-Albani CRITICIZED many hadith in sahih al-Bukhari.

There is nothing wrong with the content of this hadith,the content is very good.Nobody says Sahih Bukhari is 100% the same way Al-Kafi is not 100%.

The problem with this hadith is the content (matn). The holy prophet (peace be on him and his progeny), as agreed by all muslim historian, permitted Mut'a in the year Mecca was conquered. So how could 'Ali have claimed that Mut'a was banned on the Day of Khaybayr (3years before Mecca's conquest)?

Then another narration from Imam 'Ali is in sharp contradiction to the first narration attributed to him. He says:

"If 'Umar had not prohibited mut'a, no one would commit fornication except the wretched"
~Fakhr deen al-Razi, Tafsir al-Kabir vol. III p. 287

Then Ibn Abbas is also reported to have said:

"'God have mercy on 'Umar! Mut'a was naught but a mercy from God, through which He showed mercy to Muhammad's community. If 'Umar had not banned it, no one would need fornication except the wretched."
~Imam Abdur-Rahman Jalaludeen as-Suyuti, al-Dhurr al-Manthur, vol. II p. 141

The Prophet(pbuh) permitted Muta'a twice,the first time the Prophet (pbuh) allowed it for three days, at the war of Khaiber and after three days it was made haram.
The second time the Prophet (pbuh) allowed it was at the conquest of Mecca for three days, and then he made it haram again till the day of Judgment.Kindly read these Hadiths.
'Abd al-Malik b. Rabi' b. Sabraal-Juhanni reported on the authority of his father who narrated it on the authority of his father (i e. 'Abd al-Malik's grandfather, Sabura al-juhanni): Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) permitted us to contract temporary marriage in the Year of Victory, as we entered Mecca and we did come out of it but he forbade us to do it.[Sahih Muslim,Book 008,Book of Nikkah,Hadith Number 3255]

'Abd al-Malik b. Rabi' b. Sabraal-Juhanni reported on the authority of his father who narrated it on the authority of his father (i e. 'Abd al-Malik's grandfather, Sabura al-juhanni): Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) permitted us to contract temporary marriage in the Year of Victory, as we entered Mecce, and we did come out of it but he forbade us to do it.[Sahih Muslim,Book Of Nikkah,Hadith Number 3257]

Notice, the practice of muta'a was then made haram till the Day of Judgement.This is confirmed with the hadiths in the following books: Imam Ahmed's Musnad vol. 16 pg. 192-193, Muslim vol. 4, pg. 132, Bayhaki vol. 7 pg. 293-294]

"Jabir came (to Mecca) for the Umra, so we went to see him where he was staying. He was asked about many things, and then mut'a was mentioned. He said: 'Yes, we practiced mut'a at the time of the messenger of Allah, Abu Bakar and 'Umar" ~Sahih Muslim vol. IV p. 131

Umar's Speech
"Two Mut'a were practiced during the time of the prophet (i.e temporary marriage and mut'at al-hajj), but I forbid both of them and will punish anyone who practices either."
~Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, al-Musnad vol. I p. 52 (Beirut ed.)

"God permitted for His prophet what He willed, and the Qur'an has been revealed in its entirety. So complete the hajj and the Umra as God has commanded you. But avoid marrying these women, and do not bring before me any man who has married a woman for a specified period, or I will stone him."
~al-Sahih Muslim (cairo ed. 1334/1916), vol. IV p. 38 (chapter: al-mut'a bi 'l-hajj wa'l- 'umra).

These are explicit sermons which proved beyond any aiota of doubt that it was 'Umra who banned Mut'a and not the prophet. He (Umar) never attributed the banned to the prophet. No wonder his son, Abdullah opposed his father and answered a questioner who asked "Is your father not prohibit mut'a?". Abdullah ibn Umar said: "Are you following the prophet or my father?"

Ninety-nine percent of the companions followed the opinion that Muta'a is haram,but there was one percent who believed muta'a can be performed in extreme case of necessity in the land of war.The two cases in which the Prophet(pbuh) permitted Muta'a was during war time.

People misused this opinion of Ibn Abbas until he clarified himself and said Urwa b. Zabair reported that 'Abdullah b. Zubair (Allah be pleased with him) stood up (and delivered an address) in Mecca saying: Allah has made blind the hearts of some people as He has deprived them of eyesight that they give religious verdict in favour of temporary marriage, while he was alluding to a person (Ibn 'Abbas). Ibn Abbas called him and said: You are an uncouth person, devoid of sense. By my life, Mut'a was practised during the lifetime of the leader of the pious (he meant Allah's Messenger, may peace be upon him), and Ibn Zubair said to him: just do it yourselves, and by Allah, if you do that I will stone you with your stones. Ibn Shihab said. Khalid b. Muhajir b. Saifullah informed me: While I was sitting in the company of a person, a person came to him and he asked for a religious verdict about Mut'a and he permitted him to do it. Ibn Abu 'Amrah al-Ansari (Allah be pleased with him) said to him:Be gentle. It was permitted in- the early days of Islam, (for one) who was driven to it under the stress of NECESSITY just as (the eating of) carrion and the blood and flesh of swine and then Allah intensified (the commands of) His religion and prohibited it (altogether).Ibn Shihab reported: Rabi' b. Sabra told me that his father (Sabra) said: I contracted temporary marriage with a woman of Banu 'Amir for two cloaks during the lifetime of Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him);then he forbade us to do Mut'a.Ibn Shihab said: I heard Rabi' b. Sabra narrating it to Umar b. 'Abd al-'Aziz and I was sitting there[Sahih Muslim,Book 8,Book Of Nikkah,Hadith Number 3269]


This was referring to the
time when people abused the rule of necessity at time of Umar.
Finally,Umar declared and taught it to
be haram when a lady came to Umar complaining
about how her husband in muta'a,who was
married would not take responsibility of the child.
He realized how the society was becoming corrupt with similar conditions to adultery.Thus, he had to
teach people and make muta'a haram.

Lastly, since majority of Mufassir agreed that sura Nisai: 24 refer to validity of Mut'a, we believe ONLY another verse of the Quran can abrogate the previous and NEVER the reported words of the holy prophet (saws). This is clear from the Quran:

"If We erase an ayah, We substitute with a better ayah"

Wa salam alaykum

Surah Al-Ahzaab 33:52 -It is not lawful for you (to marry other) women after this, nor to change them for other wives even though their beauty attracts you, except those (captives or slaves) whom your right hand possesses. And Allah is Ever a Watcher over all things.

Narrated 'Ali: "I said to Ibn 'Abbas, 'During the battle of Khaibar the Prophet forbade (Nikah) Al- Mut'a [Temporary Marriage] and the eating of donkey's meat.' (Sahih Bukhari,Wedlock, Marriage (Nikaah),Volume 7,Book 62, Number 50).
Please,is there another definition of Sunnah?

Interesting read,may Allah reward the op abundantly.
Brother Maclatunji,this deserved frontpage

Awesomeking:
i dont need to monitor em,after prayer,they always like-mehn,prayer late 2day oh,na since around 12 i cum,they say it audibly so everyone would hear

That's show off,they don't have to complain if they are doing it for the sake of Allah.

if i dont caution em then i wont be doing my job as a muslim brother,i caution a lot,bt i cant possibly caution everyone,am not a magician

Are they many ni? Anyways sha,sister zezzy said I should free you

Awesomeking:
Yeah,i also get to the mosque extra early,but dude..prayer is 2pm and tha nigga is there around 12..dats weird....and theres a big difference btw reciting along and showing off,u can recite silently,bt these people scream out loud,4 God sake,they are in a place of worship not a club..

First question brother,how did you know he got to the mosque around 12? Are you monitoring him?
Secondly,have you ever caution these people that scream out loud if you think their noise is too much?

AlBaqir:
Wa alaykum salam my dear brother. Lillahil hamd, am fine. Thanks. I hope you and your loved ones are fine too. How's school things. May Allah protect you and grant you success in your studies. I believe school things has limited your face here on Nairaland. Besides I last saw your posts when you had to deal with the guys with '1000' monikers

Eid Mubarak in arrears too.

Alhamudulilah I am doing good and everyone is fine.Studies has been good too,we thank Allah,exams is few days to come.
Shukran Dear brother,thanks for the dua,may reward you abundantly.

Lol,sometimes you just have to reply a 'chamelon'.

Salam Alaikum AlBaqir,how are you bro? It's been a while.
Eid Mubarak in arrears brother.

itstpia1:
if you are complaining about all these now, i wonder what you'd have done about what went on before you joined nl?
as per multiple monikers, i guess you're unaware most monikers on nl are multiple ones? Opening multiple threads?
its called the internet.
there's a reason why seun has trolls keep his site going.lets assume you dont know?

Sister,I am not complaining just pointing out the hypocrisy in Ajiban's thread.

As per monikers,I am aware that people had multiple monikers but they don't post simultaneously with them,but are you aware of the same person praising himself on his thread using different monikers? Or a person opening more than 5 monikers in the span of a day?

Ajibam:
Op, many people have tried what you are doing now with no success, the best thing you have to do is to ignore, just as if you didn't notice anything..
Christians and other religions here can't comment in the Islam section without our dictator (mac) hiding it even if it is harmless, and due to the level of boredom there (cause it is one of the most boring section after recycle bin section), they come here enmass to post their topic.

Liar,many non-muslims do comment in the Islam section,some non-muslims topics even made it to the frontpage(If you need evidences,I will give you).The rule is very simple,keep to Nairaland rules and you will NEVER get banned.

Boring section? And your brothers in christ keep flooding the place.We know of a certain christian that has more than 5 accounts just to comment on the Islam section(N B. This certain individual do post with all these monikers almost the same time).
We know of certain christians that ALL their topics on Nairaland is about Islam and posted in the Islam section.
We know of a certain hatetheist that created more than 28 monikers just to post in the Islam section.And you called that boring? What we see is your brothers' obsession with posting in the Islam section.We do welcome them providing they abide with Nairaland rules.

Since the moderator for this section saw it and ignore, i think you should do that too, just look for a sensible thread and discuss there.. Like my oga said, you not going to one section can't deprive you of the fun here on nairaland..seun is doing the best he can, so cheer up and show that Christians are not just peacemaker but are tolerance..
Shalom

You talking about tolerance? To hell with your so called tolerance.We remembered the kind of tolerance you and some of your christian brothers and sisters displayed when muslims were clamoring for their topics on frontpage on this thread.
https://www.nairaland.com/1579129/request-islamic-threads-frontpage
We were really fascinated with the tolerance you guys displayed!!!

Rilwayne001:
Toooo much meat ni LMAO

Though am nt a newbie, but i have'nt introduce myself on this thread before.

*continues eating meat*

Thank you.

Welcome dear brother,but beware of tooth ache ooo

Rilwayne001:
Salam

I am Yusuf Adigun Ridwan from Ilorin, Kwara state, i based in ibadan. Am still in my very early 20s.

Nairalan has contributed a lot to my life especially this section.

Thank you

Are you still a newbie ni?
Anyhow sha,Walaikum Salam Waramatulah Wabarakatuh.You are welcome

honeychild:
At Op- you seem to have gotten quite mixed up. This happens when you pick and choose portions of the Bible without looking at the context or trying to read it as a cohesive whole. Let me try to address some of your issues:

That will be good of you miss/mrs!!!

1. You seem to think Paul says Christians need not repent of their sins. So not true. You are basing your understanding of Romans 11:29 on the archaic English found in the King James Version. Find below how that place reads in modern English: 'God’s gifts and calling can’t be taken back" Common English Bible "God doesn’t take back the gifts he has given or forget about the people he has chosen.'" Contemporary English Version CEV '"For God’s gifts and his call can never be withdrawn; he will never go back on his promises''. The Message Bible MSG "'God never changes his mind when he gives gifts or when he calls someone.'" NOG Bible So you can see that Paul was certainly not talking about whether or not sinners need to repent.

Ok sister,Let's agree on this,that's the archaic version but my question is:Why is it that there's no correlations between the word used in King James Version and the word used in other versions? Why are the words not synonymous?

Here is what Paul says of repentance: Romans 2:3-5: So when you, a mere human being, pass judgment on them and yet do the same things, do you think you will escape God’s judgment? Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, forbearance and patience, not realizing that God’s kindness is intended to lead you to repentance? But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed. Acts 17:30,31 In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent. For he has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising him from the dead.”

2. Paul never preached a prosperity gospel. He was never rich. The problem is not Paul, the problem is the prosperity preachers of today who are twisting his words to suit their selfish wants. Acts 18:1-3: After this, Paul left Athens and went to Corinth. There he met a Jew named Aquila, a native of Pontus, who had recently come from Italy with his wife Priscilla, because Claudius had ordered all Jews to leave Rome. Paul went to see them, and because he was a tentmaker as they were, he stayed and worked with them. 1 Timothy 6:6-10 But godliness with contentment is great gain. For we brought nothing into the world, and we can take nothing out of it. 8 But if we have food and clothing, we will be content with that. Those who want

But it will be good if you explain this verse.

For you know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor,so that you through his poverty might become rich.” (2 Corinthians 8:9).

3. Paul did not mean we need not do anything to inherit God's kingdom. To understand his statements on '"works'" you need to get the context. In early Christianity, there was some confusion as to the position of non-Israelites who were coming into Christianity. While some of the leaders of Christianity felt that these non-Israelites had to be subject to the laws given to Moses before becoming acceptable to God, Paul's position was that there was no need for them to be subject to the law. The law was a temporary provision given to Israelites, to keep them clean and safe until Christ came. With the coming of Christ, the law of Moses was done away with.

I think you are wrong on this sister.This is against Christ teaching,nowhere did Christ said that with his coming,the law of Moses was done away with.Please read
Matthew 5:17-19 -Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets;I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen,will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same
will be called least in the kingdom of heaven,but
whoever practices and teaches these commandments
will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
'Jesus' said if you keep the law,you will the greatest in the kingdom of God.He again said in Luke 16:17 -It is easier for heaven and earth to disappear than for the least stroke of a pen to drop out of the Law but Paul says in Galatians 5:4 -You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace even when 'Jesus' clearly said that the heavens and earth will not pass until the law has been fulfilled.Paul contradicted this.

Christians were now under the ''Law of Christ'". So when Paul says '"works"" cannot make a man inherit God's Kingdom, he meant "works of righteousness" under the Law of Moses e.g. tithe paying, keeping the Sabbath, fasting, etc.

Keeping the law of Moses is very essential.'Jesus' emphasized on keeping the law.Read again sister.
Matthew 19:16-17 -Now a man came up to Jesus and asked, "Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?" "Why do you ask me about what is good?" Jesus replied. "There is only One who is good.If you want to enter life, obey the commandments.It's very clear,obey the commandments.

Note that Jesus also condemned the Pharisees who emphasized these works of righteousness to the detriment of true faith.

The Pharisees were lax in keeping the Law.Jesus condemned them as those who taught the lesser commands of the Law while ignoring the more weightier commands of the Law.(Matthew 23:23)

Now please note that the law of Christ was not one of licentious living, like some Christians would like to teach. There were still standards of righteousness that Christians had to live up to. Hear Paul: 1 Corinthians 6:9,10 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. Romans 6:1,2,15,16 What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? By no means! We are those who have died to sin; how can we live in it any longer?...... What then? Shall we sin because we are not under the law but under grace? By no means! Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one you obey—whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness? Basically, the truth is, the problem is not with Paul. Paul didn't preach a contradictory gospel. The problem is with the false prophets who pick out select verses from his writings, twist them and use them out of context to justify their depraved and selfish lifestyles. As the Bible already fore warned us: 2 Timothy 4:3 For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. Today's prosperity gospel adherents have done just that. Instead of sticking to the truth from God's word, they have gathered people who will tell them that they will never fall sick. They will all be rich. And they do not need to keep God's commandments to get into his kingdom. They can lie, cheat, steal and fornicate, and still make it to '"heaven"".

Considering your words that says 'we are not under the law of Moses after the coming of christ' then one can justify what these christians do because it's the law of Moses that says 'You should not steal,nor commit adultery nor fornicate nor lie'.Even Paul said Romans 10:9 -That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead,you will be saved.With this,paul said you can be saved with mere proclamation of words,no works(coupled with the verses I quoted.
I think this is what some christians believe in,that you can do anything since you aren't under the law of Moses and you have declared with your mouth that Jesus is lord.
Hope you get my drift sister?

malvisguy212:
i will have mercy not sacrifice dosent mean God forbid sacrifice,to obey is better than sacrifice, how dos it sound in your brain? When your have quarrel with someone and you want to offer sacrifice to God, God will not accept it because you have no mercy to forgive your friend, that whhat it mean.

So paul gave no condition mean he contradict jesus teaching? It is clear that you did not read what you copy and paste.

^^^^^
Quarrel? Sacrifice for quarrel? You are not making sense any longer bro

malvisguy212:
your canalm mind will not allow you to understaand, did you border to read what you copy and paste? How dos this word from jesus"if you forgive dos that sin against you,how much more will your heavenly fathe forgave you" contradict paul word in colossian 2:13,

Paul gave no conditions,that's the contradiction

Matthew 20:28. just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransomr for many.”


Matthew 26:28 . This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.

Matthew 9:13 -But go ye and learn what that meaneth,I will have mercy, and not sacrifice:for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

^^^^^
Mister man stop post thrash on my thread. Didn't you read?
www.nairaland.com/1878607/promise-yahweh-ishmael

And moreover,where you copied that you didn't read this abi
Surah Maryam 19:54 -And mention in the Book (the Qur'ân) Ismâ'il (Ishmael).Verily! he was true to what he promised, and he was a Messenger, (and) a Prophet.

I don't really watch series because it's time consuming and too numerous.But there's one seasonal movie that I can watch over and over again and that's Supernatural.Damn,I too like that series,season 1 to 9.Interesting episodes.

malvisguy212:
you were dead because of your sins and because your sinful nature was not yet cut away.Then God made you alive with Christ. He forgave all our sins.” (Colossians 2:13). if you forgive those that sin aginst you how much more will you heavenly father forgive you. How dos this contradict paul teaching?



13. you, being dead—formerly (Eph 2:1, 2); even as Christ was among
the dead, before that God raised Him "from the dead" (Col 2:12). sins—rather as Greek is translated at end of this verse, "trespasses,"
literally, "failings aside" from God's ways; actual transgressions, as that
of Adam. uncircumcision of your flesh—your not having put off the old fleshly
nature, the carnal foreskin, or original sin, which now by spiritual
circumcision, that is, conversion and baptism, you have put off. he quickened—God "quickened together with Him (Christ)." Just as
Christ's resurrection proved that He was delivered from the sin laid on
Him, so our spiritual quickening proves that we have been forgiven our
sins (1Pe 3:22; 4:1, 2). forgiven you—So Vulgate and Hilary. But the oldest manuscripts read,
"us," passing from the particular persons, the Colossians, to the general
Church (Col 1:14; Eph 1:7). all trespasses—Greek, "all our trespasses."

All your quotations NEVER comes from Christ.Quoting Paul to justify Paul,robbing peter to pay paul.Lol,where did 'Jesus' said he laid his life for your sins?

sciyhf:
I tried so much to finish the post cos the more I read the more meaningless it becomes..the letters of Paul does not contradict the teaches of Christ in any way, I can prove that too.

Please do if you can.

Lastly, Paul encountered Chridt and remember that Christ said he will use Paul in a great way. So letters Paul wrote were inspired by the Christ.

Paul NEVER met 'Jesus' during the latter's life.Even Paul's encounter is contradictory,will discuss later.'Jesus' initially chose Simon Peter[Matthew 16:17-18].

In his narration of his encounter with christ,he contradicted himself.Read again.
Acts 22:8-9 -And I answered,Who art thou , Lord? And he said unto me,I am Jesus of Nazareth, whom thou persecutest .
And they that were with me saw indeed the light and were afraid;but they heard not the voice.Here those that journeyed with Paul saw a light,but heard no voice.
But again here
[color=#000099]Acts 9:7 -And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless,hearing a voice,but seeing no man.
In the same encounter,those that journeyed him heard a voice,but seeing no man.Which one is correct?

Lil advice,pls endeavour to pray for the spirit of truth ie d holy spirt b4 u pick up ur bible to read. The bible was inspired by the spirit and wud only be understood with the spirit. There are certainly things between the lines that will sound lame to a layman. If u haven't tried it, do it and u will get better understanding and not be like those that hear but not understands.

You that have the spirit should explain,if it's logical we would reason along with you,many things can be justified using 'holy spirit' even if it is obvious.

shomutuski:
What's it with this newbie U oldies are shouting!!! All this oldies didn't u read the message. Newbie should introduce their selves. Its none of y'all business* I meant those that are old here. You just want to claim you've been on nairaland long enough... By the way who cares

When you don't care,why are you commenting then? Nobody invited you here in the first instance

vedaxcool:
Moral of the story, always be grateful to Allah for the freedom u enjoy.

Which of Allah's favors can we deny?

thorpido: You start a thread and it goes boom in your face and you're trying much to save it.
Keep doing the work of your master.

*Unfollowing as you said

Aurevoir

thorpido: And the author of what you posted is also this that you have written in this post?
Keep deceiving yourself.Your intentions are clear.

And you choose to make a mockery of God's Spirit(The Holy Spirit)?One day you will give account of it.

Stop lamenting if you have nothing to say concerning what your brother in Christ wrote.
Kindly unfollow the thread mister.

malvisguy212: lanrexlan .it will be hard for you guys to understand the deep thing of God,all what you copy and paste are nothing but wrong interprtation,i dont know how to quote post by post, i wul'av clear your thread in no time.

Seriously,I don't like replying your posts,you are always spewing trash.Address the issue if you can or remain dumb as usual.

Jesus say i desire mercy not sacrifice dos not mean he advice us to abandon sacrifice,you cant give God sacrifice without showing mercy to your brother,will you offer God sacrifice but in your heart you have gruge with your brother? First settle it and then give offering to God. What paul is saying is difference,it has noting to do with sacrifice,the gift of God is free to mankind, sin cannot hinder the gift of God, the rain and sun are gift of God and sin cannot stop rain or sun so therefore it needed no repentance.

God doesn't require your sacrifice.Read again
Hosea 6:6 -For I desire mercy, not sacrifice and acknowledgment rather than burnt offerings.

Paul even say "to live is christ to die is gain" paul say again"if christ had not been risen our faith is in vain" there are many wrong interpretation you quote, were did you get the knowlegd that say paul LETTER is gospel?

2 Timothy 2:8 -Remember Jesus Christ, raised from the dead, descended from David. This is my gospel..Sorry,your pastor didn't quote that to you eh yah.

mikolo80: and yet You wonder why no one wants to play with ya'll

Bro,it's late in the night.Go and sleep,you need rest