₦airaland Forum

Sissie:
@empiree you are beginning to repeat yourself...

Problem is assuming you are the only one with experience.

I do not doubt stories like that happen, however saying its ruhanniyah (assuming i accept they exist) and not jinn, and proving is the former not the later is the problem and that we have agreed to disagree.
I have heard of Muslim powerful jinns that can do all that was listed above.

All this seeing is believing talks is story to me.

I try to ignore, but mentions keep bringing me back.

It won't be bad if you narrate your experiences.

@Underlined, all these I heard stories of powerful muslim Jinns performing such acts without providing evidences from Qu'ran and sunnah that muslim Jinns can do such is 'STORIES FOR US TOO'.Just like the bold is story to you.

Sissie:

kini

dragnet:
prove it.

Team Empiree
Empiree-The Jinn guy
1)AlBaqir-Right hand(Otun) of the Jinn guy
2)Lanrexlan -Left hand(Osi) of the Jinn guy
3)Kazlaw2000
4)Ayinba1
5)Jamo90
6)Hkana
7)Silent followers
^^
The above stands on 'Seeing is believing, experiences play important role in lives of men, you can't dismiss Ruhaniyahs because you can't find them in books'.
Tbaba1234 don see yoruba people as the users of Jinn


Team Tbaba1234
1)Sissie
2)Dragnet
3)Maclatunji
4)...........

^^
The above is 'Bring us textual facts for Ruhaniyah'.


Brother Empiree, me don build house for 'Agboju' o.Maybe you should send money from the states, make I help you buy land for 'Agboju'.
I don commot face on top the matter, it won't end.The argument will just be moving forward and backward as sister Ayinba1 rightly said.

Dear brother Empiree, on this matter I dey ya back 'bi Ike maalu'.Trust me, and please don't regret sharing your stories, the man in that second video talked lightly on Ruhaniyahs because people might misunderstood him.Cool videos.

With the list, na play play oo.No take me serious o.


AlBaqir, Nice video.Jazakumullah Khairan.
@Everyone, no hard feelings ooo.

olasman0:
Guys easy o.. Never knew this thread was still alive... U guys should settle ur differences amicably.. Na beg i dey beg

I have no grudge against the guy, I was only kidding and the guy started cursing like kids do.
How're you brother?

factorial1:
hmm!

Speak up man, I don't need hmmm here

Tuljaking:
cool to hear you dont brag
cool to hear you say am a kid
cool to hear you say you stil breathing heavily
plz til you leave this world of sin it would be cool not to poke mouth in wah doesn't concern you..I made a post quoting a fwnd ...d next u tim u do is open your mouth and tell ur brother sily things
..idiot

Knowledge is still far from you.Go learn kiddo and stop playing with sand.

Tuljaking:
u are mad and dumb and it shows in your response so u cant comprehend simple message juzt few lines na ur type dey find job with deir certificate for 5 years wen u got noting upthere to offer

Well, I don't brag about my educational successes.Only empty barrels make the loudest noise.Knowledge is still far from you cos my comment didn't warrant the poo you typed up there.
The above just shows the type of person you are and how you were taught.Kids of nowadays that managed to squeeze their ways into Futa behaves such a way.

You know what? Maturity doesn't lies in height nor age, you may be tall as palm tree or old as Metuselah but still have no iota of reasoning in your head.
Grow up kid, I mean upstairs.

Tuljaking: if you quote me back you wil die

I have quoted you, I am still breathing by my Lord's leave, so what next?

I will surely die, so no need threatening me with the certainty(death) when the time comes I will leave this world.

The question is how much have you prepared for your own death?

Tag:
Factorial1
Habiz
Olasman0

Come see something o

Tuljaking:
when ypu see ypur 1st semester gp u go gen2 futa gerls cheap na juz package ur self

See ya life, keep chasing girls.Very soon your eyes go open

Breakdown of class of degrees (2013/2014
Session) Of The Federal University Of Technology Akure.


SOS(School Of Science)
1st class = 11
2nd class upper = 189
2nd class lower = 310 3rd class = 137
Pass = 25
Total = 672


SAAT(School Of Agriculture and Agricultural Technology)
1st class = 6
2nd class upper = 112
2nd class lower = 146
3rd class = 59
Pass = 7 Total = 330


SEET(School Of Engineering And Engineering Technology)
1st class = 12
2nd class upper = 180
2nd class lower = 278
3rd class = 84
Pass = 3
Total = 557


SEMS(School Of Earth And Minerals Science)
1st class = Nil
2nd class upper = 35
2nd class lower = 93
3rd class = 46
Pass = 11
Total = 185


SET(School Of Environmental Technology)
1st class = 6
2nd class upper = 131
2nd class lower = 200
3rd class = 44
Pass = 3
Total = 384


SMAT(School Of Management Technology)
1st class = Nil
2nd class upper = 32
2nd class lower = 53
3rd class = 16
Pass = Nil
Total = 101



Total 1st class = 35
Total 2nd class upper = 679
Total 2nd class lower = 1080
Total 3rd class = 386
Total Pass = 49
Total students = 2229

Hmmmmmmm Hmmmmmmm, Sems na wa oo.That faculty na die

It started like this
Tbaba1234 said

Tbaba1234: Certainly, with the thousands of duas made by companions of higher spirituality. There would be evidence of this.

I replied

lanrexlan: Please give us narrations that companions made thousands of du'as.

He turned around to say

tbaba1234: Mentioning thousands was not meant to be exact, it is meant to show thatthere were companions and tabeen known by their worship and how much time, they spent reciting Quran and adkhar.

I replied again

lanrexlan: Please kindly give narrations that says companions or Tab'een recited Adhkars in large quantities.

Then he first came up with Abu Huraira reciting the Qu'ran at night and another sahaba that recited Surah Al-Kafh at night and loved doing so which he modified.

Then finally he came up with this, which has nothing to do with my question.Give us narrations of sahabas or ta'been reciting Adhkars in large as you opined by the underlined not Tahajjud.

tbaba1234:
Narrated Abu `Uthman:

I was a guest of Abu Huraira for seven days. Abu Huraira, his wife and his slave used to get up and remain awake for one-third of the night by turns. Each would offer the night prayer and then awaken the other. I heard Abu Huraira saying, "Allah's Apostle distributed dates among his companions and my share was seven dates, one of which was a Hashafa (a date which dried on the tree before it was fully ripe). (Sahih Bukhari Book: 70, Hadith: 5496)



This is an example of their dedication in worship.

You've done well evading the questions again.

Sissie:
It becomes problematic when you start telling others to do it 500 times to see result and not do istighfar as much as you can.

Sure, it depends on your strength and determination.
But what if I want to help my brother to grow in piety and reciting the Adhkars doesn't bring him problems.Is it allowed?

^^^
I am done.
Lest I forget, please kindly provide us narrations that companions perform Adhkars in large quantities.
Salam Alaikum Waramatulah Wabarakatuh

tbaba1234:
If you want to emulate the prophet, do more than 70 daily and do as much as you can. It is simple.
This is how people come up with recite something x times for something to happen. I am not in a position to say bida'ah but i know it has the potential to lead to other things.

@ Underlined, what other things?

tbaba1234: Mentioning thousands was not meant to be exact, it is meant to show that there were companions and tabeen known by their worship and how much time, they spent reciting Quran and adkhar. Yet no one narration of ruhaniyah anywhere.

Please kindly give narrations that says companions or Tab'een recited Adhkars in large quantities.

tbaba1234: If i am provided with evidence, i would accept. I am not arguing for the sake of argument.

You are arguing for the sake of there's no paper evidence.Your acceptance or rejection doesn't really change the notion of people's that experienced it.

tbaba1234:
You are mistaken. I said, you do not fix a number not defined by the sunnah.

Otherwise, you can recite as much as you are able.

I would give narrations on the excellence of some of the worship by companions and tabeen, yet not one single authentic narration on this phenomenon.

What's about fixing a number? What if it is just to monitor myself and the time I have spent in Adhkars?
How did you know it's thousands when they aren't counting?
The Prophet(Peace be upon him and his household) said he does more than 70 Istigifar per day? So am I innovating if I decided to fix 500 Istigifar per day due to the nature of what I do everyday?

tbaba1234:
Was saad event in the unseen or not??

Some people experience eclipses.just once in their lifetime, so what?

Or are you dismissing the hadith of the prophe

Nobody is dismissing hadith of the Prophet(Peace be upon him and his household) here? Eclipses of the sun and moon are natural phenomena which people would have seen before.

Yes, Sa'ad event was unseen, you should have said the same should happen for the Prophet(Peace be upon him and his household) or even a little less like the shaking of the earth? Do you remember that the mountain of Uhud shook with the Prophet(Peace be upon him and his household), Abu Bakr, Umar and Uthman(May Allah be pleased with them all)?

Is it natural phenomena?

A man experienced clouds hovering over him when reciting Surah Al-Kafh the Prophet(Peace be upon him and his household) didn't as there are no records for such.What do you have to say?

tbaba1234:
The event of saad happened in the unseen. So you can not even compare as you do not know what happened in the unseen at the death of others.

The question is where is the precedent about duas leading to ruhaniyah.

Certainly, with the thousands of duas made by companions of higher spirituality. There would be evidence of this.

Please give us narrations that companions made thousands of du'as.I think you said it's not good to recite thousands of Adhkars.Or am I mistaking?

There's little we can do, you keep evading my questions.

ayinba1:
@lanrexlan
May Allah reward you and all the brothers who commented.
I have learned a lot here. One thing though is if you do more dua, you will experience things that are "strange" and sound unbelievable to those who have not.

A lot of us want to be closer to Allah but when the requests start to get granted, we "freak out".

Ameen thumma ameen.May Allah reward us all and forgive us where we have erred.

@underlined thank you very much for that may Allah reward you, The Qu'ran says in Surah Al-Maeda 5:35 -O you who believe! Do your duty to Allâh and fear Him. Seek the means of approach to Him, and strive hard in His Cause (as much as you can). So that you may be successful.
Most people want to be closer to Allah but they think it's just by offering five daily solat only that will bring forth the closeness.
You can't sit on your chair at home and keep praying that 'O Allah I want to be close to you', it doesn't work that way.

tbaba1234:
@Lanrexlan, you spoke about the earth shaking after a sheikh's death. I give you a narration from the prophet:

Narrated Al-Mughira bin Shu'ba: "The sun eclipsed in the life-time of Allah's Apostle on the day when (his son) Ibrahim died. So the people said that the sun had eclipsed because of the death of Ibrahim. Allah's Apostle said, "The sun and the moon do not eclipse because of the death or life (i.e. birth) of some-one. When you see the eclipse pray and invoke Allah."

Volume 2, Book 18, Number 153: Sahih bukhari

From this, we know that natural events like eclipse do not occur because of the death of anyone.

Minor Earthquakes occur all the time, it could be one of those natural occurences that had nothing to do with his death in particular.

We need to realise that whilst miracles do happen, they are usually subtle and personal.

Like a corpse not decaying or shade like you mentioned in a narration not earthquakes or eclipses.

Personal 'experiences' have to be looked at in the light of the Quran and Sunnah.

I don't expect you to buy my story dear brother.Life is a choice, eclipses of sun and moon are natural events.Since I was born, I haven't witness any minor earthquake in this side of world I am living.
Ponder over this verse.

Surah Ad-Dukhan 44:29 -And the heavens and the earth wept not for them , nor were they given a respite.
Here Allah is talking about the heavens and earth weeping not for disbelivers, will they weep for believers?
What do you have to say about Sa'ad Bin Mua'adh death? Is it natural phenomena too?

maclatunji:
Missing the point. Let us assume that Ruhaniyah exist. My question to you is: what is your business with them?

My business? Am I invoking them? Take for example, someone engaged himself the remembrance of Allah and recitation of the Qu'ran and feels tranquility, will he say I don't want this tranquility, go away from me ?

These stories don't talk about invoking Ruhaniyahs, so will stop your Adhkars because they show up?

tbaba1234:
You see, this is where some of the problem lies. Trust me, I have seen the signs of the Quran, personally and I have read these hadiths. At least, we have historical precedent of these things.

Ma sha Allah!

Tbaba1234: What is the historical precedent of ruhaniyah from all these great companions??

Where is the evidence of it??
We have these narrations from great companions yet this ruhaniyah has no precedence??

Are these sheikhs today more spiritual than their predecessors??

@ underlined, is Sa'ad Bin Mua'adh more spiritual than the Prophet(Peace be upon him and his household)? There's no record that Muhammad(pbuh)'s death shook the earth nor Allah's throne.

The man that experienced clouds hovering above him, is he more spiritual than the Prophet(Peace be upon him and his household)? Or are there records the Prophet(Peace be upon him and his household) experience such?


And who told you predecessors may have not experience such? Have you and I read all books? There are thousand volumes of Books, we can't read everything.Let me use this analogy.

Abdah b. Sulayman al-Marwazî relates:We went on an expedition against the Romans. A Roman who was very strong and severe came forth. No Muslim could draw near him without being struck down by his sword. The Muslims became very afraid of him. Then a shrouded man went to attack that Roman, striking him
with his sword until he cut through him.He then hurried back to the military camp.I followed him and opened his shroud to find that it was none other than the great philanthropist and eminent scholar of Hadîth and Law, `Abd Allah b. al-Mubârak! He became very angry about what
I did and said:Even you defame us!(`Abd Allah b. al-Mubarak meant by this that the man made his identity and his deeds known to the public)

If the sahabas and tab'een have been very careful about their deeds that are apparent like Jihad, that they don't even want people to know about it.How much more personal Ibadah? Won't they be careful in talking about their personal Ibadah?
Did Bilal(ra) will made mentioned of his personal Ibadah to anyone? The Prophet(Peace be upon him) wouldn't have even know that Bilal(ra) engaged in such Ibadah if he didn't ask Bilal(ra).
How many times have you seen Mufti Ismail Musa Menk talking about his spiritual life in his lectures? Most people talk about their spiritual lives to people close to them.
What gives you assurance that the companions or Tab'een may have not experience such?

Tbaba1234: If we needed to know of this phenomenon in our spiritual lives, guaranteed, we would be informed in the Quran or in the prophetic narrations. A companion would have experienced it.

Not everything about companions is documented in books.

Tbaba1234: As regards the ustadh, I spoke about, it was a means of boasting and bragging about his personal spirituality. I knew him better than most. So yes, it was rubbish.

Now, I do not say miracles like what you have narrated do not occur. That is not my grouse.

If I do find reliable information based on islamic narrations, then i'd accept.

@Underlined, Innama Aliamaal bi Niyyat(Every action is based on intention).
If your Ustadh's intention is brag, to him belong his deeds.Most people here won't have know Ruhaniyah exist if brother Empiree didn't talk about them.

Alhamudulilah, so if there haven't been narrations that support that story of mine, will you agree dear brother?
There's little we can do about narrations in books, what people experience can't be compared to pages of Books.

Tbaba1234: How do you tell the difference between ruhaniyah and jinn??
How do you know??
A muslim jinn can appear to you, if it takes a liking to you. How can you tell, it is not that??
There is more evidence of jinn activity in Islam.

Jinn whether muslims or kafir are sometimes being invoked.People that use Jinns invoked them, there was a story of a man that I was told, this man used Jinn and to in order to see them and use, he sacrificed his right eye.

Moreover, most Jinns do possess humans and look at the story you gave about a boy that was being possessed by a muslim Jinn, the Jinn was seen moving on the wall scratching the wall or so and calling the boy's name.It's very rare to see Jinns without a 'vessel'.

Ruhaniyah on the other hands are borne out of Adhkars and du'as.If you want to feel Ruhaniyah, you increase your nawafil.Ruhaniyahs are not being invoked by mere recitations nor can they possess people.
Salam

maclatunji:
You know how people beautify something that is doubtful to make it look beautiful and pristine. You might as well start looking for "helpful elves" with the way Empiree is polishing his beliefs.

Nobody is polishing his beliefs here.The brother is not forcing you to believe in Ruhaniyahs.Spirituality has grades as paradise has grades.Someone that memorized the whole the Qu'ran and someone that memorized Juz Amma can't be compared.
What is doubtful to you is crystal clear to others, Yorubas will say 'Oun ti o ko waju si e, eyin lo ko si elomiran bi Ilu gangan' literally translated to 'What you see from the front is what another person sees from the back just like a talking drum'.


Please go and read Surah Al-Waqiyah and read what Allah said about the first set of people of paradise.Muqarabun don't stand on' I am offering solat and giving Zakat, fasting ramadan alone' as most of us do today.
Most of us are afraid of Shirk and it's normal

Honestly, I think this discussion about Ruhaniyah should have stop because people decided to choose what they want and see whatsoever they want to see.
@Tbaba1234, I think it's not too good to term/label whatever you haven't read about in books nor experience nor heard about from your Ustadhs 'rubbish'.
Because you haven't read about Ruhaniyah in books nor from your Ustadhs doesn't mean they don't exist.To people that have experience them, they are real and exist.

@Empiree, I feel you dear brother.Trying your best to make Tbaba1234 see that Ruhaniyah exists.Well brother, life itself is a choice the brother has perceived them/stories like that to be 'rubbish' right from his childhood as he said.So there's little you can do, well that's his opinions and he doesn't expect everybody to buy them.
I think the brother has made up his mind not to believe Ruhaniyah exists because they aren't in books of Hadith and hence, to him they are rubbish.

My point is that sometimes experience plays an important role in lives of men.Here is an hadith that says tranquility descends on a man when reading the Qu'ran.

Narrated Al-Bara' bin 'Azib: A man recited Surat-al- Kahf (in his prayer) and in the house there was a (riding) animal which got frightened and started jumping. The man finished his prayer with Taslim, but behold! A mist or a cloud hovered over him. He informed the Prophet of that and the Prophet said, "O so-and-so! Recite, for this (mist or cloud) was a sign of peace descending for the recitation of Quran.[Sahih Al-Bukhari Book 56, Hadith Number 811]
This is a man that recited the Qu'ran and clouds hover over him.We today do recite Surah Al-Kafh almost every friday, how many of us have feels the tranquility that man feels? Just for once?

Was there any record that Prophet(Peace be upon him and his household) felt the same? Doesn't that mean the man is 'more spiritual' than Prophet(Peace be upon him and his household)? No, not in any manner.The Prophet(Peace be upon him and his household) is the pious of men, yet some things were experienced by his companions which he doesn't experience and doesn't in any manner means his companions supersede him.
Some actions were done by his companions which he never did and he wasn't against them same with some experiences.

Another example.
Narrated Jabir: I heard the Prophet saying, "The Throne (of Allah) shook at the death of Sad bin Muadh." Through another group of narrators, Jabir added, "I heard the Prophet : saying, 'The Throne of the Beneficent shook because of the death of Sad bin Muadh[Sahih Al-Bukhari Book 58, Hadith Number 147]


Has there not been the above hadith, if I had told Tbaba1234 that there was a great noble Sheik here in Ibadan that died and the earth shook when he was lowered into the grave(The story is true), he may not have believe me and his reasons may be that there was no records of such for the Prophet(Peace be upon him and his household).
His death doesn't brought about the shaking of earth nor there were records that notable companions deaths' shook the earth.
But does that mean Sa'ad Bin Mua'adh is greater than Muhammad(pbuh)? No, because the throne of Allah shook as claimed by that hadith doesn't mean he's greater.

In the same vein, because the Prophet(Peace be upon him and his household) doesn't experience Ruhaniyah doesn't mean they don't exist and AlBaqir gave a succinct reply to that.Because they aren't historical stories of Ruhaniyah doesn't mean they don't exist.

Brother Sino's story about his Ustadh shows pure Jinn at work, how can you be making du'a unclad? There are stories that if someone wants to pass his exams he should recite some acclaimed 'du'as' at certain time in the midnight nakedly.A brother I know of did so, he ran mad few days afterwards.

Brother Empiree's stories doesn't in any manner talk about making du'a unclad nor making du'a in toilet at a specific time, what he emphasizes on was reciting Surah Yasin and Adhkars in large quantities and not unclad before you can encounter these creatures known as Ruhaniyahs.These creatures are borne out of du'as as he said.

There are great Sheiks which their spiritual lives can't in any manner to compare to ours.

AlBaqir,I think I dare not to talk about some stories concerning the spiritual lives of great Sheiks in Yorubaland.I would be termed as 'extremist' or 'Ahlu Bidiah'.

AlBaqir:
Our Imagination has always been that every single soul in saudi Arabia is pious.

Empiree: wallahi, used to think like that back in days

That's the thought of most people but we should know that they are humans and also fall short.Some even hold to that Islam came from there so their Islam is 100% correct and whatever they do should be emulated funny

usermane:
Regarding my metaphorical interpretation of Qur'an 5:38, please read more here; http://misconceptions-about-islam.com/cut-off-hands-theft.htm

Comparing the issue of theft during the time Yusuf(as) and the time of prophet Muhammad(pbuh) is ridiculous.The faith of the past Prophets(Peace be upon them all) is the same but their shariah is definitely different.

Surah Al-Maeda 5:48 -And We have sent down to you (O Muhammad SAW) the Book (this Qur'ân) in truth, confirming the Scripture that came before it and Muhaymin (trustworthy in highness and a witness) over it (old Scriptures).
So judge among them by what Allâh has revealed, and follow not their vain desires, diverging away from the truth that has come to you.To each among you, We have prescribed a law and a clear way. If Allâh had willed, He would have made you one nation, but that (He) may test you in what He has given you; so compete in good deeds. The return of you (all) is to Allâh; then He will inform you about that in which you used to differ

To each Prophet be his own shariah.So using Benjamin(Brother Of Yusuf)'s case is not feasible.

Usermane: For the sake of time, i had refrained from elaborating extensively on this verse.I had met individuals who understand Arabic far more than many orthodox clerics today and they interpret this verse metaphorically.

@Underlined, it's not about being vast in arabic language alone, it goes beyond that.I gave you 15 subjects in which one must possesses before he can interpret the Qu'ran.How many do you or the people you met possess?

There's a man that also vast in arabic language, he had a PhD in arabic studies he's a muslim but doesn't offer solat.To him, solat in arabic language doesn't basically mean a mechanical worship with your mind fully present as taught by the Prophet(Peace be upon him and his household), to him it's just supplication so he can lie on his bed performing his own solat.I think that's how you too also offer yours.
Some words in arabic language when used in Qu'ranic context is quite different.Typical example is the word 'Salat'.

Usermane: I wholly disagree with you on this. A critical study of your own tradition reveals that several cases of theft were dealt with during the the Prophet 's time and people even stole after losing one hand. Here is a sample:



That, according to your traditions happened in the Prophet 's days, in the Islamic state where Zakat distribution and amputation for theft is enforced, supposedly serving as measures to eliminate theft. How come all these barriers or measures didn't deter or prevent the same man from stealing again and again(5 times) until all his limbs were amputated and he eventually had to be killed? I don't know how it is possible for a man steal after losing both hands and feet,

Stealing sometimes doesn't mean the person doesn't have the resources.He/she just have the urge to steal.Have you heard of kleptomania? About Rich people that suffered from kleptomania? They have the resources but yet still steals.
People do things based on their selfish desires, even if the resources is abundant people still want more and some doesn't care the care they get it.Greed is the cause.
Yorubas will say 'O le mu esin lo odo, o le fi agidi fun lomi mu' meaning 'You can a horse to the river, but you can't force it to drink'.

Usermane: but thank God i no longer buy hadith, otherwise like you, am left with no choice but to believe this ridiculous fable.

That's your problem, not mine.You don't buy hadith and yet you are using hadith to say there's no hadith funny one.

Usermane: Mister, the knowledge of the scriptures is not in the language. It is in the reasoning.

Where did I say the language only? I listed 15 things you must possess if you want to have a deep understanding of the Qu'ran.Language is one of them, you neglected the rest.

Language also plays an important role because if you don't have the correct command of the language you may end up saying rubbish.Reading D.O fagunwa 'Ogboju Ode ninu Igbo Irunmole' and Wole Soyinka's translation of it, you will see the difference is clear.

The sahabas were vast in arabic language and yet they will even ask the meaning of certain words in arabic they don't understand.
Narrated Abu Huraira: I heard Allah's Apostle saying, "Nothing is left of the prophetism except Al- Mubashshirat." They asked, "What are Al- Mubashshirat?" He replied, "The true good dreams (that conveys glad tidings).
Don't the sahabas know what Al-Mubashirat is in arabic? They do, but they don't understand the context in which the Prophet(Peace be upon him and household) used it.There are many examples of such, understanding arabic language isn't tantamount to understanding the Qu'ran.
@underlined, if we were to follow the reasoning and interpretation of each tom, dick and harry then we will be in nothing but loss and we will follow nothing but error.The Qu'ran says in Al-Anaam [6:116] And if you obey most of those on the earth, they will mislead you far away from Allâh's Path. They follow nothing but conjectures, and they do nothing but lie.
So if you brought forth your so called reasoning and I brought forward my so called reasoning and Everyone brought forth his/her own reasoning we will have nothing but contradicting opinions.

So we don't follow personal reasoning in matters relating to the Qu'ran and worship in Islam.

Usermane:
Qur'an 10:100
It is not for a person to acknowledge except by God's leave. He casts the affliction upon those who do not reason.

Qur'an 17:36
Do not uphold what you have no knowledge of. For the hearing, eyesight, and mind, all these are held responsible for that.

Qur'an 39:18
The ones who listen to the word, and then follow the best of it. These are the ones whom God has guided, and these are the ones who possess intelligence.

Lol, intelligence? Even the people of Thamud and Ad' were intelligent, Allah(Subhanahu Wa Ta'ala) testifies to it but yet their intelligence leads them to nothing but ruins.

When you start to interpret scriptures with your so called intelligence, it will only lead to commotion.

Surah Al-Imran 3:7 -It is He Who has sent down to you (Muhammad SAW) the Book . In it are Verses that are entirely clear, they are the foundations of the Book and others not entirely clear. So as for those in whose hearts there is a deviation (from the truth) they follow that which is not entirely clear thereof, seeking Al-Fitnah and seeking for its hidden meanings, but none knows its hidden meanings save Allâh. And those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say: "We believe in it; the whole of it are from our Lord." And none receive admonition except men of understanding.

Username: Because this penalty for theft is unethically excessive. It violates the moral and scriptural principle of equity and moderation in handling criminal. Amputating a thief is just as good as burning down a car simply because the driver violated parking rule.

Three persons are not blessed with the complete understanding of the Qu'ran.The first is one who is not versed in Arabic.The second is on who persists in committing a major sin or indulged in act of religious innovation.The third is the one who's a rationalist even in the matter of faith and feels embarrassed when he reads an Ayah of the Qu'ran which he is not able to fully rationalize[Keemiyaa-E-Sa'daat]

The underlined applied to you usermane.To you, some verses of the Qu'ran are harsh and you try as much as possible to rationalize them out with your brain.It leads to nothing but error and utter ruins.
May Allah(Subhanahu Wa Ta'ala) guide us.

usermane:
Of course, the Qur'an 5:38 commands that thieves' 'hands' be 'cut'. But contrary to the exegesis of orthodox Muslim scholars, 'cut' and 'hands' may be metaphors in Arabic. You can't understand the Qur'an if you treat all the verses literally. Parables, Metaphors and other figures of speech can be found in the Qur'an.

I don't think you are the in the position to write exegesis of the Qu'ran.This is so because a exegesis written by a person based on personal opinion is prohibited and will to lead to nothing but utter ruins.There are no less than 15 subjects that one must be versed in before laying hands on writing exegesis of the Qu'ran.

Specialists had laid down that anyone attempting a commentary of the glorious Qu'ran should be well-versed in 15 subjects which will be listed below:

1)Lughat(The Philosophy Of Language): It helps in understanding the appropriate meaning of words.Mujahid(May Allah be pleased with him)says ''One who believes in Allah and the day of Judgement should not open his lips in the respect of the Qu'ran unless he is thoroughly conversant with the philosophy Of Arabic Language''.

Quite often, an arabic word has several meanings.A person may be knowing only one or two of them, though in a given context the actual meaning may be different.

2)Nahw(Syntax):A branch of grammar which helps in understanding the relation of a sentence to another and also the I'raab(vowel sounds) of the letters of a word.A change in I'raab(vowel sounds) often means a change in meaning.

3)Sarf(Etymology):A branch of grammar which helps in knowing the root words and conjugations.The meaning of a word changes with the change in the root and with a change in its conjugation.

Ibn Faris(May Allah be pleased with him) says ''One who loses the knowledge of etymology loses a great deal''.
Imaam Zamakhshari(May Allah be pleased with him) mentioned that when a certain person wants to translate an Ayah of the Qu'ran.

Surah Al-Isra 17:71 -(And remember) the Day when We shall call together all human beings with their Imâm(leader)

He supposed that the plural of the arabic word 'Umm' is 'Imaam'.If he had been conversant with sarf, he would have known that the plural of 'Umm' is not 'Imaam'.

4)Ishitiqaaq(Derivates):It is necessary to have the knowledge of derivates and their root words because if a word has been derived from two different root words, it will have two different meanings.For example, the word 'Maseeh' is derivable from 'Masah' which means 'to touch or to move wet hands over' and also from 'Masaahah' which means measurement.

5)Ilm Ma'aani(Knowledge Of Semantics):This is so because phrase constructions are understood from their meanings.

6)Ilm Bayyan(Knowledge Of Figures of Speech):Figures of speech like similes and metaphors due to which expressions or shades of meanings or similies and metaphors become known.

7)Ilm Badee'(Knowledge Of Rhetoric):The knowledge which reveals the beauty of language and its implications.

N.B(5,6 and 7 are the branches of Ilm Balaaghah(Knowledge Of Oratory) and are considered very important subjects which a commentator should master because the glorious Qu'ran is a prefect miracle and its amazing construction can only be understood after mastering these subjects.


Ilm Qiraa'ah(Knowledge Of The Art Of Pronunciation):This is so because different methods of recitation sometimes convey different meanings and sometimes one meaning is preferred to another.

9)Ilm Aqeedah(Knowledge Of The Fundamentals Of Faith) :This is necessary to explain certain analogies.The literal meaning of certain Ayahs of The Qu'ran referring to Almighty Allah is not the correct literal meaning.
For example, the analogy in the verse.
'The Hand of Allah is over their hands'.
Without a comprehensive knowledge of Tawheed Asma Wa Siffat, one can't explain this because hands can't be described and aren't physical.

10)Usoolul Fiqh(Principles Of Islam Jurisprudence):These are necessary for reasoning out and finding arguments in the basic support of statements.

11)Asbaabun Nuzool(Circumstances surrounding the cause of revelation):The meaning of an Ayah will be better understood if we know how,why and when it had been revealed.Sometimes the true meaning of an Ayah is understood only if we know the circumstances surrounding the reasons the verse had been revealed.This will help in taking verses in context and not out of context.


12)An Naasikh Walaikum Mansookh:This is the Knowledge Of commandments that have subsequently been abrogated or changed, so that abrogated commandments can be distinguished from standing ones.

13)Ilm Fiqh(Knowledge Of Islamic Jurisprudence):Because it's only through this knowledge that we arrive at a complete understanding of general principles.

14)The knowledge Of Ahadith(Plural Of hadith-sayings of the Prophet(Peace and blessings be upon him and household):
Some Ahadith happen to be commentary of certain brief verses of the Qu'ran.We


15)The last but most important is the Wahbi Ilm(The Gifted Knowledge) bestowed by Almighty Allah upon his selected slaves.


An Hadith says 'Whosoever acts upon what he knows, Almighty Allah bestows upon him the knowledge Of things unknown to him'.

Ali Ibn Abi Talib(May Allah be pleased with him) says: 'I swear by Him who made paradise and created life that I possess nothing special except the clear understanding which Allah bestows upon me in respect of the Qu'ran'.

How many of the above do you possesses?

Usermane: The word 'cut' in the above verse is 'iqtaa' in Arabic, occuring in 14 other instances in the Qur'an, of which 12 imply non physical or metaphorical cutting. Again, the word 'hand' in the above verse is 'aydi' in arabic and is used often as metaphors for power, means or resources.

This is very dubious on your own part.The verse reads wa sariku wa sarikat qatu fa'aqtau aydihuma jaz'a bimaa Qa-Tàà-à(Qaf tà Àin) means to cut in arabic and you failed to show us where 'Aydi' in arabic is often used as power or means or resources.These are verses the arabic word 'Aydi' is used.

Surah An-Nisa 4:43 -..................fatayammamoo saAAeedan t ayyiban faimsahoo biwujoohikum waaydeekum inna Alla ha kana AAafuwwan ghafooran

..................perform Tayammum with clean earth and rub therewith your faces and hands (Tayammum).Truly, Allah is Ever Oft-Pardoning, Oft-Forgiving.

Aydi means hands here not power nor resources.
Another one.
Surah An-Nisa 4:62 -Fakayfa itha asabathum museebatun bima qaddamat aydeehim..................

How then, when a catastrophe befalls them because of what their hands have sent forth..................
Why don't you translate Aydeehim in the above verse to their power instead of their hands?
There are many examples, Aydi is hands not power.
Kindly give us your own.

Usermane: Keeping all these in mind, it is more appropriate to interpret 'cut their hand"; the penalty of theft as cut their means or resources. This may be applied by imprisonment which translate as cutting their time, or fine which translate as cutting their wealth, or labor which translate as cutting their strength.
This is in tune with modern secular laws and captures the Qur'anic spirit of proportionality and moderation regarding penalty or retaliation.

Your explanations do not hold water and laughable, it's your personal thinking which should be thrown into the dustbin.

For cutting of hands of thieves to take place, it must be a state where is Zakat is fully integrated in the economy and it serves as a social seciruty to feed and cater for the unemployed. You cannot cut a thief's hand for stealing food as he was hungry and it is the responsibility of the state to feed him.This punishment is a dettrent again in an islamic society and prevents anyone from stealing.
This is a beautiful story.
Once,Ibn Umar(ra)went to the market and someone picked his pocket.When people in the market realized that his money was stolen,they started to make dua to destroy the person that robbed Ibn Umar(ra).

At this moment,Ibn Umar (ra) raised his hands and said, O Allah,if this person took it because he was in need,O Allah,bless this money for him. O Allah,if he is a professional thief,O Allah,then make this one the last of his sins.

This is a noble companion of Muhammad(pbuh) asking Allah to bless a thief if he has stolen because he was hungry.

I just shake my head reading when I read news like this coming from Saudi or when UAE tries to build the highest skyscraper in the world.

Rilwayne001:
Jealous ke?

I'm waiting for you guys, you especially..

Till then....i'm on a lowkey

Me ke? You are on your own oo.Na mission 2020 be my own .I be small pikin oo

AlBaqir: Thanks my dear brother. May Allah provide for you a good wife.

Ameen,thumma ameen.Thank you brother

AlBaqir,Eww Hmmmmmmm nice pictures beautiful couples.May Allah(Subhanahu Wa Ta'ala) bless your Nikkah.
To the Jealous brothers, go and marry.Rilwayne001 una see ya self, age no mean oo.Go and marry

I really enjoyed this discussion by my brothers, Sino AlBaqir and Empiree.May Allah(Subhanahu Wa Ta'ala) in his mercies bless you all(Amin).Let me quickly add this.

Our Imaam in school once gave an example.He said if there was a fire outbreak in a building and some people get injured and escaped from the fire sustaining injuries.Some people saw the fire burning the building from afar but didn't get burnt while some people read on the pages of newspaper that there was a fire outbreak in a certain place.

The first category of people witnessed the fire outbreak and almost get lost their lives.

The second category of people saw the flames of the fire burning but wasn't in the building.

The third category of people only read on the pages of newspaper that there was a fire outbreak in a certain place.

So their level of faith in this fire outbreak will be different and varies.The person that witnessed the fire outbreak and escaped with injuries will be damn sure that fire really burns hard and if a person that read on the pages of newspaper tell such a person that there wasn't any fire outbreak anywhere the former may want to slatch the latter's head.

He will tell him 'I witnessed the fire outbreak, I almost get killed by it and here you are, telling me there's no fire outbreak. Are you alright?

[This Analogy was given to elaborate the belief in the Day of Judgement, that most people's faith today is just on the pages of books so muslims do bad deeds without feeling remorseful for it.
The Prophet(Peace be upon him) that saw hell and paradise has the highest of belief in the hereafter, so he's ever conscious about his deeds.

The sahabas lived with the Prophet(Peace be upon him) and saw him crying sometimes when narrating to them some stories about the day of Judgement so they are also conscious but you can't compare with the person that actually saw it.

While we are in the lowest level of faith, because we are neither saw hell nor paradise nor met the Prophet(Peace upon him) nor his companion.Only what we have is the glorious Qu'ran, so many people have doubts about the hereafter.]

He wanted to talk how we can move from the lowest level to the second level but I left school(painful).


In a Similar fashion, someone like Empiree that has witnessed the power of Surah Yasin and AlBaqir that has saw people that Surah Yasin worked for or reciting Adkars in large quantities worked for won't in any manner wants to agree with some hadith that condemns such acts and the reason is because they have witnessed these things.


Someone that has witnessed the the Shifa of the Qu'ran(Surah Al-Isra 17:82) and someone that is still reading in the verse that talks about Shifa of the Qu'ran,obviously their faiths can NEVER be the same.
Someone that had a classical Jinn possession, someone that once witnessed Ruqya and someone that only read the existence of Jinns in books, absolutely you can NEVER compared their faith about the existence of Jinns.
The first seems to have the highest of all and nobody can tell him/her there's nothing like Jinn or supernatural world.

The second person also believe in Jinn because he/she witnessed a Ruqya session but his/her faith can't be compared with the first person.

The last person reading about Jinns on the pages of books has the lowest of faith about Jinns, he/she may shiver when reading due to stories he read but you still can't compare with the first two persons.


I got brother Empiree's post about muslims getting bored or not being happy, it's absolutely true.I think the reason is that most people's faith is on the pages of books, they read it but hasn't experienced the spirituality Islam talks about because most of us today get swayed away by this Dunya.We are so absolved with the Dunya, that some people will even tell you 'Shebi mo n ki irun(But at least, I am offering solat)'.

The Ummah's faith is at all time low, even the solat in which these people claimed they are offering, they won't even wait to supplicate to Allah after it, some will be walking on their way of their homes/shops supplicating with Dhikr beads.


Most People are on 'Won ni ka ki irun, a n ki' meaning 'they said we should offer solat, we are offering it'.That's the reason someone will say the Imaam is crazy in the mosque, it simply because they don't know the gravity of what they are doing.

I remembered vividly an incident that occurred in a mosque I once offered my Jummuah prayer, the Imaam was giving an interesting Khutubah about Jaka(Zakatu-l-Filtri) only for some set of people started grumbling that Imaam is taking too much time(When the time is just 2:07pm o) they eventually removed the mimbar from the front of Imaam and shouted 'E je ki a kirun oo'(Let's prayer o).These are sad incidents you see in our mosques, people' fear of Allah(Subhanahu Wa Ta'ala) and spirituality is low.

Let me cite an example, the Qu'ran says in Surah Al-Isra 17:45 -And when you recite the Qur'ân, We put between you and those who believe not in the Hereafter, an invisible veil.
In the Tafsir of Imaam Qurtubi(May Allah have mercy on him) concerning this verse.It reads: Narrated Said Bin Jubair(May Allah be pleased with him):When the Surah No. 111(Surah Masad) was revealed, the wife of Abu Kahab came looking for the Prophet(Peace be upon him and his family) while Abu Bakr(May Allah be pleased with him):When was sitting beside him.Abu Bakr(May Allah be pleased with him) said to the Prophet(Peace be upon him):'I wish if you get aside(or go away) as she is coming to us, she may harm you.

The Prophet(Peace be upon him and his family) said:''There will be a screen set between me and her''.So she didn't see him.She said to Abu Bakr:'' Your companion is saying poetry against me, and Abu Bakr said:''By Allah, he doesn't say poetry.''She said:''Do you believe that?'' Then she left.

Abu Bakr said:''O Allah's messenger! She did not see you.'' The Prophet(Peace be upon him) said:''An angel was screening me from her.''.[Hadith is quoted in Musnad Abu Ya'la].

Imaam Al-Qurtubi(May Allah have mercy on him):If the above verse is recited by a real believer, he will be screened from a disbeliver(Allah knows better)[Tafsir Al-Qurtubi Volume 10, Page 269].

So if I tell someone I recited the above verse and I was screened by Allah from a gunshot targeted at me by a disbeliver, the next thing you will hear is that 'ha, Alfa e ti n lo aferi'(Alfa you are now using charms), not knowing it's the verse of the Qu'ran.

But are you just going to recite the verse while in trouble? You must have been reciting it over a long period of time and your Tawakul(Reliance) in Allah(Subhanahu Wa Ta'ala) must be very strong.
I hope you get my few points and sorry for the 'epistle'.I think the fly is flying on NL these days, na one brother started am and I was infected .

Salam

Empiree:
^ you mean bride right?. can't see it properly cus inn mobile

Yes, the bride.Firstly her head isn't covered.
Secondly, the so called wedding damn is transparent.
May Allah help us

Sino: All was sounding interesting until he mentioned what he had to go through, he said while making the recitation, he would be Unclad in the masjid, and still he would feel extremely hot that even the fans in the masjid couldn't abate the heat.

Lol, I know of a story of someone that will be reciting du'a unclad in the toilet, standing with one leg on the WC and the other leg on the floor.
People dey look for different things o