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Christianity EtcRe: The Fight Against Terrorism by lawani(op): 11:04pm On Nov 05, 2025
Fenrir:
Being surprised by your own conclusions does not make them research — it only means the outcome differed from your expectations. In every field, surprise is the beginning of inquiry, not its validation.

You say your spirit sometimes refuses to give straightforward answers. That perfectly illustrates the problem: the entire process depends on your internal dialogue. There is no independent witness, no repeatability, and no peer verification.
By definition, that makes it private revelation, not research.

Divination, even in traditional Ifa, involves community, oversight, and interpretation within lineage. Once it becomes a solitary exchange between you and your own “spirit,” it leaves the realm of divination and enters that of personal mysticism. There is nothing wrong with that — but it cannot claim the authority of a tested system.

A researcher submits findings for review.
A diviner submits readings to communal wisdom.
A mystic keeps revelations for contemplation.

Which of these do you actually wish to be? Because right now, you’re attempting to hold all three roles at once — prophet, researcher, and priest — while answering only to yourself. That is not spiritual depth; it is self-reference mistaken for evidence.

And if I may say this gently — when someone builds an entire doctrine that depends solely on personal authority and demands others simply believe, it begins to look less like revelation and more like a performance meant to sell conviction rather than seek truth.
You will be wrong to say they are my personal positions. What you get by interviewing someone isn't your personal position

I interviewed my own spirit
Christianity EtcRe: The Fight Against Terrorism by lawani(op): 10:54pm On Nov 05, 2025
Fenrir:
Thank you for elaborating. What you’ve described confirms that your framework is entirely self-derived — you ask your own questions, interpret your own answers, and cite your own conclusions as evidence. That process may be personally meaningful, but it cannot be described as research or divination in any serious sense. It is simply private belief.

In Ifa, as in every disciplined system of knowledge, verification is communal. Claims are tested, cross-checked through lineage, and anchored in recorded odu. When you say no one has confirmed your findings but still declare yourself the incarnation of Orunmila, you’re moving from spirituality into self-appointment.

Your descriptions of “spirit hierarchies,” “food farms,” and “managerial levels” read more like personal mythology than inherited tradition. That doesn’t make them automatically false — but they are yours, not Ifa’s. The honesty would be to call them your own revelations, not ancestral wisdom.

You frequently use the word “research.” But in both academic and spiritual contexts, research implies a system that others can reproduce or verify. Yours cannot. You alone control both the method and the interpretation. That’s not research — it’s assertion.

When spirituality removes all external checks — elders, peers, scripture, even reason — it becomes indistinguishable from imagination.
That doesn’t mean it has no personal value; it simply means it cannot claim public authority.

So, before presenting these ideas as truths about God or Ifa, I suggest you decide whether you are speaking as a seeker, or as a seller. Because the difference is not in words — it’s in accountability.
It is still research because many of my findings surprised even me. Divination is communication with the spirit world, my spirit. Many times the spirit refused to give me straightforward answers and asked me to check later.

You can always use divination to ask if something is right or not just like it is used to check the prospects of a proposed marriage and etc but you will always need to be sincere. That is all the peer review in divination
PoliticsRe: Fulani Herdsmen And Bandits Have Started Fleeing Nigeria - Patrick Anum by lawani(m): 10:50pm On Nov 05, 2025
AlphaTaikun:
Many of those Fula militia bandits are NOT into herding of cattle so this is NOT an open grazing problemThey are pure bandits who simply kidnap for ransom because it's a source of quick money and they also displace indigenous communities such as the majority Indigenous Hausas from their ancestral homelands and rename those communities into Fulani names. To make matters worse, all the Governors of the Hausa States of the North West, the Ministers under President 'Bola Tinubu, the NW Senators, the NSA, etc, are the minority Fulanis without Hausa presence in top political positions which the Fulas have covertly cornered, so how does anyone think the problem of Fula banditry will be solved under President 'Bola Tinubu's government ifvhe is NOT made aware of this? There are several videos of real Hausa folks (men and women) that I've seen in English and Hausa complaining about the minority Fula dominance, and they are planning NOT to vote for Fulas again.

Second, since more than 90% of all the cows or cattle sold in Nigeria are from the Niger Republic and other contiguous Sahelian countries, building ranches for them should NOT be Nigeria's business BUT the business of Niger Republic, Mali, or wherever these herders come from.

Did you know that more than 90% of Miyetti Allah members are NOT Nigerians? This is why when clashes occur with indigenous people in Nigerian communities, they have NO empathy for Nigerians. I got to know this FACT from a Punch newspaper article close to 10 years ago when a Fula guy from Niger State based in Ogun State said over 90% of the Miyetti Allah members in Ogun State are NOT from Nigeria but from Niger Republic hence they speak a different Fulani dialect from his own Fula dialect spoken in Nigeria. He ran to Punch newspaper to complain and alert the public because those vicious guys WANTED to eliminate him due to some disagreements within that insidious cattle association.


I have always proposed that each Nigerian State from Lagos to Ogun, Oyo, Osun, Ekiti, Ondo, Niger, Edo, Delta, Enugu, Plateau, etc, can invest in hybrid cattle and diary farms to boost milk and meat production exponentially and there will be NO need for these nomadic foreign Fula herders and there cow meat. It's the Governors of the Southern States and Middle Belt States that lack vision in this regard although I read that Ekiti State has a diary farm with imported hybrid cows. WAMCO ALSO purchases milk under specific arrangements from Yoruba and Fula local breed cattle owners in Oyo State who milk the local breed cows in the mornings and even the Yorubas and those Fulas in Oyo State say it's more profitable for them than grazing cattle about.
I agree with your positions. We must also know that no amount of land can satisfy a nomad. If you give them anything they will need more. Nigeria has only ten million cattle heads for which people are killed in their farms. Britain has twenty million with less land and less population. Nomadic cattle rearing needs to be banned
PoliticsRe: Is There Any Cult More Dangerous For Humanity Than JW? by lawani(op): 10:35pm On Nov 05, 2025
Fenrir:
People are quick to call Jehovah’s Witnesses a cult for refusing to take part in nation-building, but if we’re being honest, every major religion started as one. Small groups with strict beliefs, close communities, and rituals that set them apart — that’s how most faiths begin. When they grow larger and society gets comfortable with them, we stop saying “cult” and start saying “religion.” Give it enough time, and that religion becomes part of the culture itself.

It’s funny how those three words — cult, religion, and culture — are really just different stages of the same thing. They all come from the same root, cultus, meaning care or worship. A cult is simply a belief system that hasn’t gone mainstream yet; a religion is a cult that survived; and culture is what happens when enough people build their lives around it.

So maybe the real question isn’t “Is this a cult?” but “Does it help people think freely, live decently, and add something good to humanity?” That’s the line that matters.

But hey, I’m just an atheist.
Someone gave an excellent definition of cult on Quora. Easy to join, get killed if you try to leave.
I agree that JW does not really fit the bill but their ideas are against humanity's progress.
Christianity EtcRe: The Fight Against Terrorism by lawani(op): 10:15pm On Nov 05, 2025
Fenrir:
Your explanation is interesting, but I need to understand the foundation of what you’re teaching. If your claims are truly based on Ifa, then a few points should be clear and easy for you to clarify:

Source material: Which specific odu Ifa or lineage teaching introduces the idea of a ‘God grid’? I’m aware of Olodumare, Orunmila, and the Irunmole, but this structure doesn’t appear in classical cosmology.

Research method: When you say you’ve done ‘Ifa research,’ do you mean documented divination results, guidance from a recognized babalawo, or your own spiritual interpretation? The distinction matters.

Verification: If this knowledge comes through personal revelation, what process or authority within the Ifa community has confirmed it as valid? Ifa wisdom is traditionally verified through consultation, not individual opinion.

On payment: Ifa teaches iwa pele — balanced character and integrity. How does demanding payment before demonstrating spiritual credibility align with that principle?

Terminology: You refer to ‘fully matured spirits’ — is this your translation of an existing Yoruba term such as ori inu, or a concept you’ve introduced yourself? If it’s original, how does it fit within Yoruba metaphysics rather than contradict it?

If your practice is genuine, you should be able to answer these directly and confidently. Clear explanations are what separate an initiated teacher from someone selling ideas.
My research entails asking questions with prayers and answering them with the 256 signs of Orunmila. What is required is to know the right questions to ask and to be able to read the signs. That is all about the research.

The maturity of spirits is part of what I found out about with my research. I found out that a spirit has eight levels of God like managerial ability which determines how they will treat what is put under their care and six levels of empathy rank which determines how they respond to emergencies concerning others. You can drop in rank in the second but not in the first. If you drop from the last rank in the second you die both on Earth and in heaven

On payment truthseeker asked how he can confirm the authenticity of my claims and I told him he should consult diviners but they will charge him. There are many diviners of different creeds not only ifa and many have good reputation

Ori inu I translate as higher self. It is the spirit that own your incarnation who will take the food you harvest after dying. Purpose of incarnation is to harvest food for sustenance in heaven according to my research

Nobody has confirmed my positions. I taught myself. I have no Oluwo but I found out via divination that I am the incarnate of Orunmila.

I agree with you that truth never fears question and I am ready to take on more questions
PoliticsIs There Any Cult More Dangerous For Humanity Than JW? by lawani(op): 4:33pm On Nov 05, 2025
The most noble work is to join hands in making your community better. There have been many individuals on Earth that distinguished themselves by transforming their nation or community for the better but the Jehovah witness are preaching that all these people are condemned by God for their effort.

To be worthy you must remove yourself from nation building and join in being a witness

Is there any cult more dangerous for humanity than the Jehovah witness?
Christianity EtcRe: The Fight Against Terrorism by lawani(op): 3:43pm On Nov 05, 2025
MaxInDHouse:
That's where you got it wrong completely because a politician can't become a Christian he must leave everything that has to do with politics! Luke 18:18-23

So there was never a ruler in Christianity we must be on the humble side not part of dictators! Matthew 10:16

Therefore Constantine was never a true Christian!🙂
Ok I see your point. However if JW are waiting to convert the whole world then they are on a long thing. Unless they use force it can't be possible. Even with force not possible
Only clear reasoning can convert everybody
PoliticsRe: Fulani Herdsmen And Bandits Have Started Fleeing Nigeria - Patrick Anum by lawani(m): 3:29pm On Nov 05, 2025
AlphaTaikun:
If this report is true in the absence of any video EVIDENCE or recording, they are moving into the Fulani-speaking part of Northern Cameroon in the "Adamaoua Region" which is a larger extension of Adamawa in Nigeria.

This news MUST be properly verified to ensure that it's NOT propaganda BUT if it isn't, I'm NOT surprised as Donald Trump's tactless and rambling comments and posts would have alerted them to start escaping anyway. This should have been a covert operation with the United States working in alliance with Nigerian Special Forces.


I propose that these Cameroon Fula settlements should be militarily targeted in partnership with Cameroonian military forcesto eliminate these bandits in any U.S. invasions BECAUSE most of the foreign Fula militia bandits crossing into Nigeria are from Cameroon, Niger Republic, Mali, Burkina Faso, as far as Mauritania the original dispersal point of ALL Fulas whose paternal lineage is of Berber North African origin. The invading Berber/Arabs of the Morocco/Algeria regions fathered children with black women who were used as part of their harems and that's how Fulas began to evolve centuries back.
Fighting Fulani bandits can't solve the problem they pose. Open grazing is the problem
PoliticsRe: US Foreign Aid Disbursement To 20 African Countries For Sept 2025 by lawani(m): 3:20pm On Nov 05, 2025
The US is doing father Christmas when they have issues to solve in their country
Christianity EtcRe: The Fight Against Terrorism by lawani(op): 3:12pm On Nov 05, 2025
Maximus692:
We cannot and must not form a country because we were given the assignment to go preaching and teaching neighbors what we believe so we can't stay alone in a place without doing what Jesus commanded us:

Go, therefore, and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you. And look! I am with you all the days until the conclusion of the system of things.” Matthew 28:19-20

So we can never ever form a country.

Do you understand now? undecided
So said the early Christians too until Emperor Constantine converted
BusinessRe: Is ₦5M Enough For Someone To Start A Business And Get Married? by lawani(m): 2:44pm On Nov 05, 2025
candygist:
Do your findings on Money Mutual Funds with a good Nigeria bank And let your money work for you. Every year you take your profit or you can decide to still invest your profit.

5m is enough money to be given you nice profit yearly without you doing much work. You can buy Apple, Google or any faar growing Nigeria stock, you can buy/invest in BTC and keep your money on Spot. When the price of BTC goes up you see your profit, you can decide to take ur profit our or tli can still re-invest it. And when the price goes down you do t have to panic to withdraw your money. BTC and stock market will always rise back no matter the amount of time they fall.


If you want to get married, no go marry poor man pikin or olodo. Take your time and look for a valuable woman.
5 million naira is too small for all that especially if you have a family
CultureRe: Origin Of The Word "OGA" by lawani(m): 1:55pm On Nov 05, 2025
Oga as used in pidgin comes from the Yoruba. Ogranya and organisation does not have the correct tones

That being said, I believe it is the same word in the Edoid Ogiso, Ogiame and etc meaning King of the sky and King of the waters respectively.

OGA means boss or senior in Yoruba. It can also mean master Ogie means.king in Edo. It used to be the same word thousands of years ago obviously
Christianity EtcRe: The Fight Against Terrorism by lawani(op):
MaxInDHouse:
I have told you countless times that people kill not because of religion but politics the major problem is that those brainwashing the fighters can use anything within their means to achieve their goal and false religions is also a tool.
Has there ever been a time JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES join in wars?
That's the only true religion because we believe in love and peace of mankind in general so if you are claiming religion is the cause of killing count us out!🙂
If a whole country convert to JW sincerely and then they are invaded, will they surrender? JW people are not realistic at all. The early Christians were exactly like them and they later became monsters. JW will be the same under the same circumstances
Christianity EtcRe: The Fight Against Terrorism by lawani(op): 1:22pm On Nov 05, 2025
MaxInDHouse:
So what have they achieved with this so called SPIRITUALITIES so far?🙂
You don't seem to understand that when those spiritualities were the only things we know, there were no jihads and crusades anywhere on Earth. The Earth enjoyed harmony, spiritual harmony. Is that not achievement enough?
CultureRe: Benin Was A Yoruba speaking Empire. by lawani(op): 1:18pm On Nov 05, 2025
Fenrir:
I served in the military, and that’s not the point. Of course it’s a big deal if someone simply doesn’t want to do it. It might seem normal to you because you were raised that way, but to most of the world — even to many other Africans — it’s a definite ‘hell no.’
I understand that many people may feel uncomfortable with it but there are also people that catch fun with it. They will go with their team of friends to' frustrate'the inlaws with prostration and etc.
The most important thing is that you can bypass it if you are uncomfortable with it.
CultureRe: Benin Was A Yoruba speaking Empire. by lawani(op):
Fenrir:
Click any one of these as proof, social media is nonsense.

📚 Verified Historical Sources on the Benin Empire

For anyone still confused about the real origins of the Benin Kingdom — here are verifiable historical and academic sources that clearly establish the Edo foundation of the empire.

1️⃣ National Geographic – The Kingdom of Benin
🔗 https://education.nationalgeographic.org/resource/kingdom-benin/

2️⃣ Britannica – Benin (Historical Kingdom, West Africa)
🔗 https://www.britannica.com/place/Benin-historical-kingdom-West-Africa

3️⃣ Wikipedia – Edo Language
🔗 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edo_language

4️⃣ BeninHistory.org – Who Are the Edo People?
🔗 https://beninhistory.org/eweka-dynasty/f/who-are-edo-people?blogcategory=Featured

5️⃣ Sociostudies Journal – The Benin Kingdom (13th–19th Centuries) as a Megacommunity (PDF)
🔗 https://www.sociostudies.org/journal/files/seh/2015_2/046-076.pdf

6️⃣ Edo Nation – Oral Tradition of Benin Kingship
🔗 https://www.edo-nation.net/iyieweka1.htm

7️⃣ National Museums Scotland – The Court Arts and History of the Kingdom of Benin
🔗 https://www.nms.ac.uk/discover-catalogue/the-court-arts-and-history-of-the-kingdom-of-benin


As an outsider who actually studies and respects African history — it’s frustrating to see people twist facts to fit tribal pride.
The Benin Empire was Edo, linguistically, culturally, and politically. That’s not opinion, it’s well-documented evidence across multiple sources.

True history doesn’t need defending with lies — it speaks for itself. Knowledge frees; propaganda only enslaves the mind.
I know you know that the British royal family's lingua franca was French and if the royals had led the expansion of the British empire then we would have been speaking French today. We are speaking English only because private companies created the empire. It is something similar between Yoruba and Benin and the main difference is that a large part of the empire was also Yoruba while no part or just a negligible part of the British empire was French speaking
Christianity EtcRe: The Fight Against Terrorism by lawani(op): 11:48am On Nov 05, 2025
Truthseeker10:
Below is your statement.

When necessary your spirit will design other ways to communicate. Your spirit has utmost control over you. It can drop thoughts in your brain and etc


According to your statement above.....are there any humans including Christians and Muslims that are not diviners since their spirits has utmost control over them to communicate?
If your spirit drops a thought in your mind that is not divination. Don't you understand what divination means?
Christianity EtcRe: The Fight Against Terrorism by lawani(op): 5:46am On Nov 05, 2025
MaxInDHouse:
That's the religion Africans passed down to their children so they does it religiously and everyone accepted it yet when politics and racism starts the kolanut doesn't stop them from hating, fighting and killing themselves.
So it's politics that's causing killings not religion!🙂
When people kill over God it is because they have been brainwashed by religion because such things did not happen on Earth before Christianity. Religion is just a new reason to hate fight and kill each other. We don't need it as human beings
People killedd each other before religion but not over disagreement about God. So if you want to blame politics you can't blame politics alone
Christianity EtcRe: The Fight Against Terrorism by lawani(op): 5:43am On Nov 05, 2025
MaxInDHouse:
That's the religion Africans passed down to their children so they does it religiously and everyone accepted it yet when politics and racism starts the kolanut doesn't stop them from hating, fighting and killing themselves.
So it's politics that's causing killings not religion!🙂
Not only Africans. All human groups used to rely on divination and they also believe in reincarnation. Traditional spiritualities are not religions. They are scientific in their approach. What they do is very similar to each other.
Christianity EtcRe: The Fight Against Terrorism by lawani(op): 5:40am On Nov 05, 2025
MaxInDHouse:
Since it's a must to pay diviners for their services who will patronize and pay diviners if everyone becomes a diviner ?😂

Liars and how easily they fall into their own traps:

(The true God) catches the wise in their own cunning, So that the plans of the shrewd are thwarted. Job 5:13

He'll run away as if something suddenly happened to him only for him to start responding on other sections of the forum!😂
I only run away when you leave the issue being raised and start abusing me
Christianity EtcRe: The Fight Against Terrorism by lawani(op): 5:38am On Nov 05, 2025
MaxInDHouse:
I only run away when you leave the issue being raised and start attacking me










Since it's a must to pay diviners for their services who will patronize and pay diviners if everyone becomes a diviner ?😂

Liars and how easily they fall into their own traps:

(The true God) catches the wise in their own cunning, So that the plans of the shrewd are thwarted. Job 5:13

He'll run away as if something suddenly happened to him only for him to start responding on other sections of the forum!😂
CultureRe: Benin Was A Yoruba speaking Empire. by lawani(op): 5:22am On Nov 05, 2025
Fenrir:
Stop using Google its lazy and easy to manipulate

Getting world history information from Facebook? Wow, no wonder this country is in such a state.
..
Today's Benin kingdom is not the same as the old Benin capital or Benin empire by language.
Today's Benin kingdom is undoubtedly Edo but the Benin palace of old was the capital of the empire and language spoken within the walls was a Yoruba dialect.

There was a Twitter post I saw from a Benin man who said in the olden days Yoruba was referred to as the language in which the king is addressed
CultureRe: Benin Was A Yoruba speaking Empire. by lawani(op): 1:54am On Nov 05, 2025
Fenrir:
🏛️ The Real Story of the Benin Empire: Facts, Myths, and Historical Evidence

Lately, there’s been growing debate online about the origins of the Benin Empire — with some claiming it was originally a Yoruba-speaking state, or that the Edo identity was a later invention.

To set the record straight, let’s look carefully at verifiable historical, linguistic, and archaeological sources — not online myths — to understand what’s fact and what’s fiction.

1️⃣ The True Ethnic and Linguistic Identity of Benin

Verdict: Fiction

The idea that the Benin Empire was Yoruba is completely false.

Benin was founded and ruled by people who spoke Edo, the language of the Edo (or Bini) ethnic group. Edo belongs to the Edoid branch of the Niger–Congo family, while Yoruba belongs to the Volta–Niger branch. These two are related but separate — distant linguistic cousins, not the same people or tongue.

Evidence:

R. E. Bradbury, The Benin Kingdom and the Edo-Speaking Peoples of South-Western Nigeria (1957)

Kay Williamson & Roger Blench, Niger–Congo Overview (1998)

Jacob Egharevba, A Short History of Benin (1933, rev. 1960s)

When the Portuguese visited Benin from the 15th century onward, they consistently referred to “the language of Benin.” There is not a single record of Yoruba being spoken or used as a lingua franca.

2️⃣ The Ife–Benin Connection Explained

Verdict: Partly Fact, Often Misunderstood

Yes, there was a historical relationship between Ile-Ife and Benin, but it’s often exaggerated.

According to Benin oral history, after the fall of the Ogiso dynasty, the Benin chiefs invited a prince from Ife — Oranmiyan — to become ruler. Oranmiyan returned to Ife but left behind his son Eweka I, who became the first Oba of Benin.

This marked a dynastic link, not a Yoruba conquest or cultural takeover. The Benin civilization had already existed long before this, with its own language, traditions, and kingship system.

Evidence:

Jacob Egharevba, A Short History of Benin

Philip Igbafe, Benin Under British Administration (1979)

Paula Girshick Ben-Amos, The Art of Benin (1999)

Even Samuel Johnson, the Yoruba historian, wrote in The History of the Yorubas (1921) that Oranmiyan “could not understand their language” — a clear indication that the people of Benin were not Yoruba speakers.

3️⃣ The Language of the Empire and the Palace

Verdict: Fact — It Was Edo, Not Yoruba

Every credible historical record confirms that Edo was the official and spoken language of the Benin Empire.

The royal court, craft guilds, and administrative institutions used Edo exclusively. The famous Benin bronzes carry Edo inscriptions and titles; Yoruba words are entirely absent.

When Portuguese emissaries arrived in the 1400s, they relied on interpreters fluent in the Benin language, not Yoruba.

No historical, archaeological, or linguistic evidence supports the idea that Yoruba was used in Benin.

4️⃣ Benin’s Population and Palace Complex

Verdict: Partly Fact, but Misrepresented

There’s no doubt that Benin City was one of Africa’s most impressive pre-colonial capitals. Early European visitors like Olfert Dapper (1668) and Captain Philip (1821) described it as a vast, well-planned city with an enormous royal palace complex. Estimates suggest a population between 30 000 and 50 000 people.

But the claim that “50 000 Yoruba speakers lived in the palace” is fiction. Those inhabitants were Edo-speaking citizens of the Benin Kingdom. The palace was the ceremonial and administrative heart of an Edo-speaking empire.

Evidence:

Olfert Dapper, Description of Africa (1668)

Alan Ryder, Benin and the Europeans 1485–1897 (1969)

5️⃣ Migration Stories: Ugbodu and Delta North

Verdict: Partly Fact

Many communities in Delta North and parts of western Igboland — such as Ugbodu, Idumuje-Ugboko, Onicha-Ugbo, and others — trace their ancestry to migrations from Benin.

This is largely true. Benin influence extended far beyond present-day Edo State. However, this does not mean those migrants were Yoruba. Over time, some of these groups came into contact with Yoruba-speaking neighbors (like Owo and Akoko), which explains why certain Yoruba-like dialects appeared later in those regions.

Evidence:

N. A. Forde, Benin Studies (1951)

P. Igbafe, Western Igboland Under Benin Influence (1971)

6️⃣ The “Edo Revisionism” Claim

Verdict: Fiction

The notion that Edo historians “rewrote” history in the 19th or 20th century to hide Yoruba roots is a modern internet myth.

The earliest Benin histories, especially those by Chief Jacob Egharevba (1933), were drawn from indigenous Edo oral traditions that pre-date colonialism. These traditions were later supported by independent studies from European and Yoruba scholars alike.

Evidence:

Jacob Egharevba, A Short History of Benin

Samuel Johnson, The History of the Yorubas (1921)

Even Yoruba accounts confirm that Oranmiyan’s involvement in Benin was short-lived and limited to a royal link — not an ethnic transformation.

🏁 Conclusion

The Benin Empire was an Edo-speaking civilization, one of Africa’s greatest pre-colonial powers — not a Yoruba state.

Though there were dynastic and spiritual exchanges with Ile-Ife, the Edo people preserved their own language, identity, and system of governance. The empire’s achievements — from its masterful bronzes to its sophisticated city planning and early diplomacy with Portugal — were the fruits of Edo ingenuity.

History is strongest when it is told truthfully. The genuine story of Benin stands on its own without embellishment or borrowed glory.

And as we discuss these histories, perhaps the real question is this: why do some historians and enthusis iasts keep trying to fold every other civilization into one cultural narrative, instead of allowing each people’s achievements to shine in their own right?
I can't debate today
It is sad that the publication that I saw where the Portuguese recorded Yoruba being spoken in Benin can no longer be gotten online. The present Edoid speakers entered Benin when the empire declined. Even Kano was speaking a Nupoid language centuries ago. Things don't remain the same. Things change. Benin city spoke the same language as the other big cities of the empire that they related with.

Christianity EtcRe: The Fight Against Terrorism by lawani(op): 1:22am On Nov 05, 2025
Truthseeker10:
So every human including the Christians and Muslim that you are against here are diviners?
I said every human should be not every human are. In the past everyone knew a bit of divination. It may just be obi dida using kolanuts
CultureRe: Benin Was A Yoruba speaking Empire. by lawani(op): 1:09am On Nov 05, 2025
Fenrir:
When the Bow Outlives the Ground: Yorùbá Prostration, the “White-Cloth” Rite & The Hidden Crisis in Raising Daughters

In Yorùbá culture, marriage used to be much more than just a union of two people.
It was a covenant between lineages, ancestors, and moral systems.

But today, a serious question needs asking 👇🏾

Why do many Yorùbá families still demand the old rituals of honour — like the groom’s full prostration (dobálẹ̀) — when the structures that once justified those rituals have almost disappeared?

And with 1 in 4 Nigerian girls sexually assaulted before 18, what happens to the old ideas of purity, discipline, and honour that those rituals were built on?

🔹 1. What the rituals actually meant

Back in the day, two linked traditions gave the groom’s bow its moral meaning:

▪ Aṣọ funfun (the white-cloth rite):
A white cloth was laid on the bridal bed. The next morning, the blood stain showed the bride’s virginity — proof that her family raised her under strict discipline and moral guidance.

▪ Dobálẹ̀ (prostration):
The groom prostrated fully before the bride’s parents to say:

“I acknowledge the labour of your upbringing. You raised a woman of ìwà (character), restraint, and dignity.”

The bow was not a formality — it was earned respect.
The family had proven their moral training through their daughter’s behaviour and reputation.

🔹 2. What families had to do to “qualify” for that respect

In ancestral Yorùbá society, a family only qualified for honour if they fulfilled three sacred duties:

Àbọ̀ ọmọ (Protection & Discipline):
Parents and the extended family guarded their daughter’s conduct and protected her dignity.

Ìkọ́ ìwà (Teaching of Character):
Daughters were trained daily in patience, humility, and self-control.

Ìmọ̀ ìbáṣepọ̀ (Social & Ritual Education):
They were taught family protocols, respect for elders, and spiritual cleanliness.

When these were done, the groom’s bow — the dobálẹ̀ — was not just culture.
It was a certificate of gratitude for moral labour already proven.

💬 Now here’s the hard truth

Historically, when a man married into a Yorùbá home,
he wasn’t just getting a wife — he was inheriting a moral legacy.

He got purity,
he got honesty,
he got a woman whose life had never belonged to another man,
and the family was publicly honoured for producing her.

But today?
Let’s be honest — many families still demand the same Bentley-level honour,
while offering a reality that’s far from what the ancestors meant.

It’s like paying the price of a brand-new Bentley,
only to receive a used Honda Civic with 200,000 kilometres on it —
and then being told you must still bow, thank the seller,
and pretend it’s the same standard of value.

The analogy isn’t about money or shame —
it’s about truth and fairness.
If the old rites were built on moral proof,
and that proof no longer exists,
why should the full ancestral honours still be demanded unchanged?

🔹 3. What exactly qualifies a family today?

If modern parents don’t guide, mentor, or uphold communal discipline,
can they still claim the same cultural credit as those who did?
If the community no longer guards its daughters with the same vigilance,
and if trauma, exploitation, and broken values now shape many young lives,
shouldn’t the rituals adjust to the new reality — instead of pretending the old one still exists?

That’s not disrespect —
that’s cultural honesty.

🔹 4. Why that old moral ground has disappeared

Modern life has changed everything. Evidence backs it up:

✅ Erosion of traditional parenting:
A 2014 study from the University of Ibadan (Changing Child-Rearing Practices Among Yorùbá Parents) found that 74% of families now use liberal or mixed methods, and over 78% admit respect values and greetings have weakened.

✅ Loss of moral apprenticeship:
Research from Advances in Applied Sociology (2019) confirms that the extended family mentorship system that trained daughters in discipline has largely collapsed.

✅ Urbanisation & social media:
Modern schooling and city life replaced communal parenting with independence — less supervision, less shared moral training.

✅ And the biggest crisis — sexual violence:
National data from UNICEF and Nigeria’s Ministry of Women Affairs show that about 25% of Nigerian girls experience sexual abuse before age 18, and many are assaulted multiple times, even in marriage.

The Yorùbá make up about 15% of Nigeria’s population, so the daily number of assaulted Yorùbá girls is heartbreakingly high.

That reality alone destroys the old assumption that a bride’s “purity” reflects perfect upbringing.
It often reflects a lack of protection instead.

🔹 5. The numbers that tell the truth

If we’re honest, very few Yorùbá families today still qualify — by ancestral standards — for those old ceremonial honours.

Studies and sociological observations suggest that only:

5–10% of families still maintain strong moral and character-based parenting (àbọ̀ ọmọ).

10–15% still actively teach ìwà pẹ̀lẹ́ (gentle character) as a daily family value.

And fewer than 5% still practise traditional etiquette, rituals, or mentorship of girls in the old form.

In essence, maybe 1 in 10 families truly continue the moral practices that once justified the groom’s prostration.

The rest — even with good intentions — are performing the ceremony, not preserving its spirit.

🔹 6. What this means in real life

When families demand big “traditional” weddings, expensive lists, and the groom’s bow —
but no longer practise the discipline, mentoring, or communal protection of old —
three things happen:

Ritual becomes form, not function.
The prostration is just a cultural identity badge — not earned honour.

Entitlement replaces effort.
Families expect respect without having done the moral work to deserve it.

Cultural dissonance grows.
Young people feel the rituals are hollow; elders feel insulted.
In truth, both are right — the ritual has lost its soul.

🔹 7. What would earn prostration today

If Yorùbá culture wants to keep its dignity, we must rebuild the reason behind the bow:

✅ Families that raise children (boys and girls) with honesty, empathy, self-discipline.
✅ Parents who model ìwà pẹ̀lẹ́ (gentle character) daily, not just demand it at weddings.
✅ Recognition that modern challenges — autonomy, trauma, sexuality — must be faced with compassion, not denial.
✅ Mutual honour between both families: humility from the groom, integrity from the bride’s people.

In short: the bow must be gratitude for moral effort, not entitlement for ceremony.

🔹 8. Conclusion

As the Yorùbá say:

“Ìwà l’ẹwà obìnrin” — Character is a woman’s beauty.

The real beauty of Yorùbá culture isn’t in the bow or the white cloth —
it’s in the ìwà rere (good character) that once made those symbols meaningful.

Until families rebuild that foundation — through moral teaching, communal care, and honesty —
the bow will remain just a gesture,
not gratitude.

Culture should not be costume.
It should be character.

References (for those who like receipts) 📚

Owolabi, C. S. (2014). Changing Child-Rearing Practices Among Yorùbá Parents in Ibadan, Nigeria. University of Ibadan Repository.

Aládesanmí, Á. & Ògúnjìnmí, I. B. (2019). Yorùbá Thoughts and Beliefs in Child Birth and Child Moral Upbringing. Advances in Applied Sociology, 9.

UNICEF & Nigerian Ministry of Women Affairs (2021–2024). National Data on Sexual Abuse in Nigeria: roueghly 25% of girls abused before 18.

BMC Public Health (2020). Ethnicity, Religious Affiliation and Girl-Child Marriage in Nigeria.
You flog this issue too much. I agree with your conclusion though but prostrating to elders is never a big deal to any Yoruba except if their rank bars them from prostrating like when they are a king or maybe even an army officer
Christianity EtcRe: The Fight Against Terrorism by lawani(op): 7:07pm On Nov 04, 2025
MaxInDHouse:
Corporate is better than individual. Even Orunmila used to consult other Awos or group of Awos










Since it's a must to pay diviners for their services who will patronize and pay diviners if everyone becomes a diviner ?😂

Liars and how easily they fall into their own traps:

(The true God) catches the wise in their own cunning, So that the plans of the shrewd are thwarted. Job 5:13

He'll run away as if something suddenly happened to him only for him to start responding on other sections of the forum!😂
BusinessRe: Nigerian Banks Face Value Destruction As ROE Sinks Below Cost Of Equity by lawani(m): 7:01pm On Nov 04, 2025
Are the majority of their shares preference shares? Why do they have a cost of equity?
Christianity EtcRe: The Fight Against Terrorism by lawani(op): 6:58pm On Nov 04, 2025
Truthseeker10:
So what would God do to those who refuse to be a diviner?
When necessary your spirit will design other ways to communicate. Your spirit has utmost control over you. It can drop thoughts in your brain and etc
Foreign AffairsRe: Dick Cheney, Influential Republican Vice President To George W. Bush, Dies by lawani(m): 6:19pm On Nov 04, 2025
May his soul rest in perfect peace. Condolences
Christianity EtcRe: The Fight Against Terrorism by lawani(op): 6:15pm On Nov 04, 2025
Truthseeker10:
So God wants everyone to be a Diviner?
It is the easiest way to communicate with the spirit realm and God is a spirit

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