₦airaland Forum

Suspect33:
reading your post i could'nt help laughing, what ignorance, you are so wrong, i dont even know where to start the correction, well like i said before, i wont argue with you, like you saw the topic, the message is for heavenly minded christians, one reason people choose not to believe in God's existence is because they cant seem to accept the reality that their is judgement after a life of sinful pleasure

God have said that to them that deligently seek him with their whole heart, they shall find him, i bet you hav'nt really desires to know if he exist, you are just blinded with ignorance, brother before death comes knocking, seek God, you shall surely find him, and follow him. It pays

You said you are not here to argue with me and my post is very laughable. Please prove to me that I am wrong with what I posted. I would like to be proven wrong in those examples.

My brother I have tasted your religion and i am sure I know more about Christianity and the bible more than you do. I have read the bible so many times I can't count, I know church history like the back of my hand and I have tasted the other side of being free from religion. So I am guessing who is ignorant , I have seen both sides and what I can tell you is that you are living in a mental prison that you happen to love because you think it is better than what is outside it.

Death has been coming ever since, am sure you think your great great grand father is burning in hell. If you can still be sane thinking of all the people before you that didn't here your gospel that should be in hell and all those that exist now that will never hear the gospel message and should go to hell[ according to your gospel] , if you can actually remain sane after that then I can only leave you to tour delusion. So much for the love of god.

The funny thing about religious people is how they manage their everyday tasks.

Their beliefs are so ridiculous . Their worldview so exclusivist and monotonous, everything is always black or white for them. The moment you object their beliefs or even if you believe with them but deviate a little from mainstream beliefs then you are manipulated by the devil.

They are like paranoid schizophrenics that see danger and evil people everywhere. But the funny thing is that some of them happen to hold respectable and relatively difficult jobs. Some are engineers, doctors even very smart lawyers. Some are businessmen, creative artists etc. I wonder how they merge such stupidity with brilliance at times.

My conclusion is that the brain is like an orange with different sectors. And its quite possible to buy an orange that has a rotten sector. That's how religious brains are, the moment you turn their minds to cosmology and the fear of death[ which is what religion really addresses] , they become dumb. Its like an Achilles heel or a soft spot in their brains.

Suspect33:
i am not one to argue on issues like this, like the book of isaiah 55:8-9 "My thought says the Lord are not like yours, and my ways are different from yours. As high as the heavens are above the earth so high are my ways and thoughts above yours.

I'll leave you to ponder upon this, where did life generate, who created all these.

Psalm 14:1; Fools say to themselves, there is no God.

We haven't yet gotten to the point of arguing whether there is or isn't a god.
Do you think when people say god that they just mean the Christian god and father of Yahshua?
My point was to show you that your god Yahweh is either a contradiction or just plainly doesn't exist.

If you quote the bible showing me where god said his thoughts are not like ours am not convinced because I can point you to scriptures that show that yahweh thinks like a man.

When he created man and iniquity was so high in the world, he regretted creating man meaning that he wasnt wise with his decision in creating man. That doesn't sound so wise and high above human thoughts. It sound so human.

When Yahweh was provoked and wanted to clear all the Israelites for worshipping a golden calf, Moses talked him out of him and gave him reasons that he couldn't see on why he should spare the Israelites. He thought like a man there , as a matter of fact he thought like a man that wasn't wiser than Moses.

When the Israelites were in the wilderness and Yahweh was faced with an option of taking 2 paths, he chose one path because he wanted to avoid the iron chariots of the Assyrians.

Yahweh is a jealous god. Jealous when he doesn't get adulation and praise, that sounds very human and petty.

The same Yahweh made a plan for a law to obeyed forever but he eventually changed his mind and scrapped the covenant[ even though Jews greatly resist that ] and brought a new one. That sounds fickle and very human.

The worst is that yahweh bragged in the book of job about creating the sun and setting it on its course like a champion running from one end of the sky to another end. The sun doesn't move, we move round it with 9 other planets. If Yahweh was anything close to a sky god he would have known that instead of setting his religion up for future contradiction.

With all this, it's clear that yahweh doesn't exist .

Suspect33:
[b] HOLINESS AND HEAVEN
" Where there is no vision, the people perish: but he that keepeth the law, happy is he." Proverbs 29:18 Do you want to make heaven? are you planning to be there? what are you doing for heaven? what will the angels say of you? what will you be remebered for?

when the roll is called up yonder, will you be there? is your name there in the book of life? shall we see you arrayed in spotless garment? are you going to be there in heaven?



Are your garment spotless are they white as snow? will you be qualified to cross through
the portals of the gate of heaven or will you be rejected
how many in heaven knows your name? does heaven says you are qualified? will Jesus say to you welldone thou good and faithful servant or will He say I know
you not ye sinner.

Are you on the blood sprinkled way, the path that the saviour trod, are you on the way to heaven or are you busy enjoying in sin, saying this is my life I need to run it?

is your life pleasing to God? can he boast of it to the devil? have thou considered my servant Job? and noah a preacher of righteousness and Enoch a man of holiness? David a man after my own heat, can God be
proud of you?

Are your services acceptable to God like the services of Samuel, Apostle paul, those who fought a good fight of faith, men of truth,
intergrity and righteousness. If I come to your house in heaven will I see you? If I ask of you yonder can I see you, in heaven will
you be there? in the worship sections with the host of heaven will you be there? to eat of the tree of life and drink from the living water of life.

The beauty of heaven can you afford to miss? are you still living in secret sins saying that holiness is impossible, are you still holding on to unforgiveness, malice,
grudges, wickedness, lust, pride, greedy eyes, jealousy, gossip, back biting?, are you still holding on to your restitution you are afraid or ashamed? are you still holding on
to your boyfriend or girlfriend? are you still covering your sins, are you still holding on to your earrings, Jesus says take away your weavon, attachments, wool, artificial hairs, cortex, lipstick, trousers, you say no I cant?,

Are you still holding on to listening to wordly musics, bad musics, ungodly films, gambling,
bleaching, using perfume, wedding ring, chains, bangles, body huged blouses and shirts, short skirts, tight gown, pencil mouth trousers? are all these things going over to eternity with you? think heaven

run to Jesus today and repent of your sins, death gives no notifications, the raptures is imminent, dont trade eternal bliss for the pleasures of life that leads to condemnation.. Repent


A HEAVEN TO GAIN, A HELL TO AVOID [/b]

With this standards to you think that up to 10 percent of Christians will make heaven?

Now lets analyze humanity's fate

All the people that have lived and died without knowing Jesus from the advent of Christianity till present will be nothing less than 6 billion people in number. In terms of percentages, around 20 percent of the world's population is Christian. Now based on your standards I doubt if 10 percent will make it. You can even use random sampling to confirm that.

Statisticians agree that since the inception of humanity till date not up to 10 percent of all humans that have ever existed believed in Jesus.

Now looking at this figures, how do you reconcile an all loving God with such figures. Well you can say that god doesn't have the ability to change our will but wait I thought you said your god is omnipotent.
I am struggling to wrap my head around this,
A person exists, he loves 'll of humanity more than we can ever fathom, he has all the power in the universe. So we have power and intent together. But looking at the results, most of humanity will be tortured forever .
Now that is so contradictory.

But let me think, what if its spiritual and my fallible human mind can't understand it.
Hmmm. I am sorry dudes, there is nothing spiritual or mysterious about that, what we have is a combination of stories compiled for a period of 5000 years into a religion. A book with over 30 authors. The contradiction we see is human contradiction as a result of people's different opinions in one subject being married together by force. In reality, the religion is blatantly wrong cos such a god who loves humanity and has the power to save humanity cannot fail in his mission. If he fails then he isn't god. But he fails because the theory is wrong and he doesn't exist

rhektor:
Digression! That's all I see here. You posted a link which I clicked even though it was not a christian link however it turn out to confirm my statement about religious scientists. I posted a link you failed to open it because you are afraid of Christians. So what's your point?

Please how did my link confirm your view point. Over 70 percent of British citizens believe in a god while on the same UK amongst scientists not up to 50percent believe doesn't it show you something. Why should I repeat myself again and again.

In the USA, over 90 percent believe in a god amongst normal people but in the same USA amongst scientists not up to 50 percent of scientists believe in that god. Can't you see the pattern.
I just gave you one link from a neutral site, I expected you to pick the facts from the site but you gave me a link to an apologist site that spews the same arguments over and over again.

What's the fuss about scientists, you were the one that said I didn't know more than scientists that believed in god. You claimed that most scientists believe in god and I have shown you that the claim is false. I am not going to give you links here and there, you can go and Google it yourself and see the percentage of atheist scientists but you don't want to check it out yourself.

You drove to argument to the point of showing that scientists are religious and I cornered you there, you now wanted to pass a snide remark about atheism and boko haram but I also caught you there and showed you that belief wise you are much closer to Abu Shekau than I can ever be.

Am still waiting for you to prove to me that scientists in advanced countries are more religious than non religious. I know you can't do it cos you can't prove a lie .

And you said I am afraid of Christians, I have read uncountable Christian websites like answeringenesis etc and I find them to be ridiculous and based on emotional appeal and scientific distortions. Such sites are for those that really want to believe and need encouragement in their blindness called faith.

bennyann:
Good to know. Thanks.

But since Christianity is the most foolish and confusing of them all, then don't you think it would be kind of difficult to choose from the rest since they're mostly okay in someway to us?

Must man try to have a belief system in the afterlife.

If two of us are locked in a room with a secret vault, but we don't have the key to that vault, will it make sense for us to develop belief systems concerning the content of the vault?

Lets imagine, I develop a belief system about a dragons egg in the vault while you claim the vault contains a worm hole to another galaxy. The fact is we can create 100s of theories about the vault but in reality we can't verify them till its open and when our theories are based on just our mental creativity then no theory is more correct than the other one.

Now lets come to the real world. Since man could talk and contemplate his environment, man has always sought to answer the question of why he is here and who dropped him here. The desire to answer this question is what has created religions and belief systems. But like my vault analogy, if the religions are based on mythology, creativity, and even deception then such religious beliefs are baseless.
Unfortunately all religions depend on the things I mentioned above that's why they are horrible tools to acquire truth.

Think about the scientific advancement of the past 300 years, the moment the world and Europe put the scientific method ahead of religious dogma, humanity achieved insane things like inventing aeroplanes, electricity, phones , modern vaccines, ships etc.

Looking at reality, it is easier, faster and more efficient to get to the truth using critical thinking, reason, rationality and evidences. The down side to this is that on most occasions you might not find the truth you want and you might not even get the truth in your lifetime but you will lay an easier foundation for those after you. People like Newton, Faraday, Einstein and co laid foundations for future scientists.

The religious way seems to be the easy way out. You can figure out the beginning, end and even the purpose of the universe without lifting a finger you just need your faith. Its easier to start religions but they usually lead people astray for a very long while.

My suggestion is this, why must we believe in something we can't prove. What's wrong in admitting to be ignorant of the universe and living life as it comes. Even the most advanced scientists don't know up to 1% of the existent knowledge in the universe. Scientists are humble enough to admit that and there is no shame there.

The only reason why one should pick a religion is when the supreme creator makes himself available for all to see without arguments and doubts. No one ever argues about the suns existence, it's clear for all to see. So for the religious, if your gods are so powerful then they can make everyone know without a shadow of doubt.
Till then all I can say is that I don't know fully about our origins and destination and I must not pick a belief system just to quench my uncertainty. That would be feeble minded and weak.

rhektor:
Concluding without verification, is that what atheistsm has taught you? If this is Atheism then I'd rather join boko haram than be an atheist

You haven't tried to verify yourself. Google pew research center and see their poll on religious belief amongst scientists .

Don't you think as a Christian that you are not very different from boko haram.

Let me list the similarities between Christianity and boko haram

1. Boko haram members believe in prophet Isa and Christians also believe Jesus existed.

2. They pray to a deity that they believe chose Abraham as his chosen servant 5000 years ago. Christians also believe in that deity.

3. Boko haram members believe in pleasure in the afterlife and also believe that pleasure in afterlife is greater once you are martyred. You as a Christian also believe on a pleasurable after life and am sure you believe your crown of glory will be greater if you are martyred.

4. Boko haram members pray at least 5 times a day. And am sure you also pray on numerous occasions.

5. Boko haram members believe in Adam and eve being the first human beings. You also believe that. They also believe in the first temptation in the garden of eden which you do.

6. Boko haram members fast regularly. I believe you also fast too.

7. Boko haram members believe in heaven and hell. You also believe that too.

8. They believe in zakat while you believe in tithing.

I can go on and on to show you similarities between extreme fundamentalist sunni wahhabism and evangelical xtianity. I won't lie and say that you are as violent as them or you are a suicide bomber. But come to think of it, the credulity you have to believe that a dead Jewish man will come back with a flying horse in the sky with millions of angels coming with swords to judge humanity is not very different from the credulity required to believe that when you die fighting for god you will get 72 virgins .

Its not very different my friend. So you can see that my view points are very far from that of an Islamic extremist while yours is related. Comparing me to an extremist is like comparing a bird to a cow. But as a cow is to a bull so is a Christian to a Muslim.

bennyann:
Very true. Between the two it's Christianity that doesn't make sense to the human mind at all. Is that why it's so unique?

Unique? I doubt it.
That's like me saying that because I have a cgpa below 1.0 I am unique. Well I guess I should be unique in that regard , unique in failure.

But coming to Christianity, having cinteadictory, senseless stories in its holy book makes it uniquely stupid. But come to think of it , Christianity isn't unique.
Lets think of the aspects of it

1. A belief in a son of god born of a virgin. We have that in mithraism, Greek mythology like Dionysus . We also have that in Egyptian religion - Osiris. In short most ancient emperors claimed divinity and immaculate conception.

2. A belief in afterlife. A place of glory and torment. Most religions have that, Islam has it, mithraism has it, Judaism has it. So nothing unique there.

3. A belief in one god and creator of the universe. Islam has it, Judaism started it, Zoroastrianism has it. So nothing unique there.

4. A belief in right and wrong and basic morality. All religions including Ifa have a moral code. So nothing unique there

5. The existence of prophets and prophecies. All religions have prophets, diviners. Nothing unique there

6. A belief in miracles of their chosen one. Muhammad performed miracles according to Muslims, Buddha performed miracles, mithra, osiris and even O.O obu claims to have performed miracles. Nothing special there.

7. Or is it resurrection. Mithra resurrected, Muhammad didn't even die, osiris resurrected etc. Nothing unique there.

8. Or maybe its having a holy book. Hmmm lets see, the oldest holy book in the world ain't the bible but the bhagavad gita of the Hindus. And at least 10 religions have holy books.

From everything I have posted its clear that xtianity ain't the unique student in class cause like all other religions it possesses the major qualities of religions. The only unique thing about Christianity is that its the most syncretic and confused religion. Adopting aspects of every thing it lays its hands on and contradicting itself with numerous baseless theologies.

Okay pigs come and roll in the mud and fight over whose delusions are more real.

The Muslims believe Muhammad rode to heaven in a flying horse while Christians believe in ascension into heaven.

In reality the Op is right about the contradiction of trinity in the bible. How can Jesus cry to his father during cricifixion and also talk about his father being greater than him and also be one with the father. The contradiction is just so much.

The funny thing about Christianity is that you dont even have to use science to debunk it. It will eventually debunk itself just like a cancerous cell that fights the body.

I don't even have to get to Genesis 3 to see the contradiction of 2 creation stories. The first story involves man being created on the sixth day after the animals while the 2nd one involves man being created before the animals and animals being created for companionship but in the end woman is created to fulfil that role. And this is just the first 3 chapters.
All the messianic prophecies are either vague or the ones that are clear are still not fulfilled by Jesus.
That's why blind faith is important in christianity. They need blind faith not just to ignore sound scientific principles but also to ignore their contradictions in their holy book. So its more like they use faith to protect themselves from themselves.

As for the Muslims. They studied the dominant religion of the time and didn't change much but just added an update to it. It's still built on faulty foundations

rhektor:
Did you read my own link? No because you believe it is of no value, not relevant, sunk? I laughed but atheists like you would be quick to posit that we theists don't study to know beyond what our religious books teaches however you as an atheist would rather want me to read your link which I did and it confirmed earlier statement that most scientists are religious which you debunked but your link still prove me right you read my link and give your opinion..
O
Maybe you think you are smarter than those religious scientists
http://godevidence.com/2010/08/quotes-about-god/


https://www.nairaland.com/3452546/scientists-quotes-god#50853645

I read your links and they come from a Christian apologist site and also started by a Christian on NL.
Look at the name of th first site, godevidence.com. do you think they would be objective?

My link didn't confirm your view point. The link showed that at least 45% of British scientists don't believe in god. I earlier told you that technologically advanced countries like UK and USA have a high percentage of scientists that disbelieve in your myths. But am sure in the link what you cherrypicked was the part that talked about Indian scientists believing in god. So my link didn't confirm your fact. In UK and USA most normal people identify with a religion but the higher you go on the scientific and philosophical ladder the less the number of believers. Doesn't that show you a pattern.

Guy the only thing I can tell you is to research the percentage of atheistic scientists. I don't think you can honestly do a small research on that topic and still not find out that there is a wide discrepancy between religious belief and scientific discipline. The deeper they go the farther they run from religion.

Originakalokalo:
I did not write this piece to convince atheist, Muslims, and others. I wrote this to the Christians here. Before the warning, pls read this first.

1.Jesus said I and my father are one. John 10:30. The Jews wanted to stone his for this because they knew the implication of what he said. See John 10 vs 38. They said "thou makes thyself God"....

2. John 1 vs 1. In the beginning was the WORD. And the word was with God. and the WORD was GOD..in Verse 14, " The WORD (which was God) was made FLESH and DWELL among us.J Jesus was the flesh, a physical image of God.

3. Jesus said "Before Abraham, I Am" right before Abraham....and in John 1 , "all things were made by him" Genesis 1 vs 1. come, let US make man in OUR image.
4. Colossians 1, 14.... talked about blood and forgiveness of sins..and in vs 15, who is the image of the invincible God. In 16, "all things were created by him"............he raised the dead, in the Quran, he created a bird from the mud and breathe life into it....and most of all, HE FORGIVES SINS..."son, your sins are forgiven"....

These are the evidences of Jesus being God.

THIS IS THE WARNING.......
1. STOP TRYING to convince anyone to believe in Christ.. It is the work of the Holy spirit. let the spirit draws whoever he wills.Your job is to preach...and before you do, make sure you have the WORD in you to the FULLNESS.There are different types of people here..... Satanist, atheist, etc.


2. If you don't have the WORD in its fullness yet, study your Bible instead of Reading posts that can corrupt your believe...I tell you, some powers are here with fake doctrines from hell. If you are not strong enough,.....

3.And if you have the WORD and you preach do not persuade. If the person decides not to believe, leave him alone......Jesus said "dust your feet and leave" don't engage in any discussion that will sway u away....
Regardless of whom you are, Satanist, Christian, Muslims, pagans, atheists, etc... ONE DAY, YOU Will BREATHE Your LAST BREATH AND THEN, WHATEVER FOLLOWS IS YOUR CROSS TO CARRY.

I am not on nairaland to preach. You have heard the gospel.....There is no point to repeat it.... Other people in the corners of the earth who have not heard should be preached to.. That is our work as Christians

I believe in summary what you are trying to say is that Christians here should preach without listening to the view points of freethinkers. You want Christians to talk and others to listen but you don't want others to talk and Christians to listen.

You talk about corrupting your belief. Well let me tell you something, if you believe in the truth you do not need to fight to maintain that belief , the truth is strong enough to fight for itself. Do we have to argue about the sun existing? Capital no, that's because the sun's existence comes with undeniable proof, no one can corrupt your belief in the sun. That the same for every true claim in the world, you don't have to use faith or reconvince yourself every Sunday cos the truth will and must fight for itself. I don't mean proving itself after you die like most religious people claim. I mean proving itself everyday.

You might say the existence of nature proves your god everyday, I think the existence of life only stands as a possible proof for a creator. But then the question now comes, which creator ? This is where your blind faith comes in to believe that it was the god of the ancient Jews or maybe the Arabs or Indians.

My point is, when a claim is exposed to other claims and such a claim is shaken or threatened into oblivion then that claim is most likely false. Truth will and must fight for itself. So you believe god really wants you to make heaven and also loves you but he can't just make it clear for everyone of you Christians once and for all. He can't give you undiluted indisputable proof that would never be threatened by atheistic claims. That my friend is a contradiction.
In summary, light will prevail where darkness exists. Religions claim to be the light but they continuously run away from different ideas, just like bats or vampires that cant last in the sunlight. Bring your ideas and claims to the light and battleground of reason and watch it vanquish before superior logic.

rhektor:
You did not read that link right? Or are you trying to avoid it?
You present yourself as an atheist however you mentioned Christian and Bible more times than you mentioned science. It's alright I have told you before that you should come out plain because I can see a pain I you whenever you mention Christian or Bible. Just try get over it, God bless you sir

Oh I read the link. The aim of the link was to show you religious disposition in a scientifically advanced country like the UK. The article compared religious beliefs amongst Indian scientists and UK scientists. You were meant to deduce the point from the link. You can check Google for other sites.

Is atheism not a lack of belief in god. I was a christian, that was my belief system and now becoming an agnostic atheist means I am free from the mental cage of religion. I mentioned the bible so many times because when the bible is read with an open mind it can be the most potent force for atheism.

I don't think there is a pain, I just think its disgust over the horrendous myths that are passed as facts in religious circles and the fact that I believed them for a long time.

My man am sure you think you are on the right path to an eternity of bliss and we are the lost ones. The only advice I will give you is to follow the facts and use critical thinking and you will find out that the so called path you are on is actually a mental prison that has profited the leaders of religious institutions for millennia.
When you discover this fact the you will know real joy and freedom not the joy you have to delude yourself into believing that you have by blind faith.

rhektor:
Have you ever use the telescope before? No. Your problem is that you seem to fuse atheistsm and science together, Mr man they are not the same. There are theist scientists in fact most of the scientists are theists. Atheism is an illusion. How can you accept that one big bang created all things and then discredit the creationist theory? Oh now I'm getting a bit of your trouble, so it's all about Christianity? You shouldn't have called l yourself an atheist rather come out plain and call yourself anti-christian then we'll be able to profer a solution to this problem.
You can give us your views on this too
https://www.nairaland.com/3452546/scientists-quotes-god#50853645

These are the views of those who are a thousand times wiser than you are, you are free to debunk it all.
GOD bless you brother

I haven't used telescope before so does it mean that it doesn't work. Have you ever travelled to Chile or Uzebkistan before, does it mean that they don't exist. The reason why you believe that some obscure countries exist is the same reason why I won't doubt that the function of telescopes have been well documented.

Atheism and science are not the same thing . But one of the greatest proofs that support the atheistic world view is scientific proof. Evolutionary biology debunks Christianity and religion, modern astronomy debunks your religious beliefs, modern geology debunks it, even modern morality and ethics debunks the barbaric practices of your OT god and most importantly your bible debunks itself in several places by predicting so many failed events.
Medieval scientists were mostly Christians because they couldn't object or go against the norm cause it could cost them their life.

Your statement that most scientists believe in God is the most biased and false statement I have heard in a while. I will give you links to show that most reputable scientists in the USA and Europe disbelieve in god. The smarter a man gets the more ridiculous religion appears to him.
http://news.rice.edu/2014/09/24/indian-scientists-significantly-more-religious-than-uk-scientists/

I don't need to post it all for you. Please Google the percentage of scientific atheists and see that its quite normal to disbelieve in your god.

Why will you call me antichristian, I am also antimuslim, anti jewish, anti religion.

I don't believe in your useless myths and fables. But am sure you see every one that rejects Christianity as devilish and satanic. Its the normal xtian response. You can villify all non believers in so many ways but you will never consider the fact that many of the doctrines and stories in your bible are unrealistic, not historical, immoral and down right impossible.

rhektor:
Stop being sarcastic, blind faith? Have you seen Mars before? But you believe it? And you accused of of blind faith. My God has been verified by me and millions in the past and he is real have you purge yourself of all you think you know about nature? You just accept hook line and sinker all they fed you with. If there are any group of people having a blind faith it should be you atheists. what have atheistsm done to the world? If you can answer that question, then we can review atheistsm together. Remain bless brother

Ok I haven't seen mars the same way you might not have been to Chile or Mongolia. Have you been in those countries before, your logic is like saying those countries don't exist because you haven't set foot in it.

I haven't seen mars but one thing is for sure, I can see it by using a telescope and confirming it, I can also travel to a reputable institute and use their telescope. At least there is a way to confirm its existence.

Please how do you confirm the existence of Jesus , can you see him, can you spend any amount of money to confirm him, how did you accept him is it not by blind faith. Christians claim to have the power of god I am sure you can look around and see that xtians are not any different morally, financially, emotionally from other folks but you still go on believing by blind faith.

Nobody verified your god in the past, when Christianity started, the biggest dispute was concerning the divinity of Christ. Read about the Gnostics, marxionites, Mennonites, ebionites and other early Christian sects. Christians couldn't agree on that basic fact until the Roman empire stepped in after Constantine intervened and silenced every other sect of Christianity. Millions didn't confirm him, Millions were forced into it by the destruction of their pagan temples and burning of any one that didn't worship the Christian god. Saying people confirmed your god is like saying that Abacha, idiamin, gaddafi were confirmed as the best possible leaders for their country that's why ruled for long, but we know that's not true because they ruled by force, fear and intimidation. Thats the same way Christianity grew and survived.

And if I am to go by your logic that millions confirmed your gods existence then I can also say that billions have confirmed the Hindu gods[Brahman] existence and even billions have confirmed Allah's existence. Ask yourself which god is now the real one. And please if you're to debunk brahman and Allah with logic, please apply that same logic to Yahweh.


As for saying that we swallow everything hook line and
sinker. That's just laughable. No scientist releases any theory or finding without presenting evidence for confirmation. And even without evidence, the logic can still be traced to make sense. But am sure your pastor gives you revelation without any confirmation save for blind faith.

taurus25:
Hell made sense when it was needed the most. Atleast to some extent, humans can now maintain a level of control without being scared of eternal punishment.

I think the only control hell achieved was the control over the profits and power the medieval Catholic church exercised over Europe. I don't believe we need a doctrine of eternal torment to exercise moral restraint.

The Greeks didn't have that doctrine but they were a model of ancient civilisation.
Look at untouched natives in the northern part of the country, even in the Brazilian Amazon, without any hellish belief, they still manage to live with peace and love, its now the European idiots with their so called hellish civilisation that actually brought hell to American natives.

If gorillas, prides of lions and packs of hyenas can maintain peace among themselves without any defined belief then I think we humans can do it without hell.
Just my opinion

rhektor:
Providing a key and starting the car does not prove you are the owner, haven't you heard about car thieves stealing cars without actually breaking in? Hmmmmmmmmm you are surely loosing it Bro.
Learned and exposed scientists that accepted all the gibberish in geography text books? Have you seen the planet Mars before? But you believe there is a Mars right? You must be very funny my friend.
Between the theists and the atheists you don't need to be a logical thinker to know that the atheists are silly in their accusation of the theists, most of not all atheists believe whatever is sold to them by one stupid scientist in the name of experiment however they will accuse the theists of stupidity to believe in religion.

Oh yea providing it doesn't prove you are the owner but I also talked about the details on the vehicle particulars matching yours or you refused to see that. If someone provides such proof that he owns the car is it not better than a charlatan that makes spurious claims but can't even open it or even find the door handle. Christianity is like that charlatan, xtianity claims to be the religion of the creator of the universe but it can't even get its prediction right about the sun moving round the earth or the stars being in the firmament. The god of xtianity clearly had nothing to do with the universe. He was created in the mind of iron age peasants and he is rejuvenated in the mind of credulous 21st century believers.

What gibberish in geography textbooks. The same scientists predict earthquakes and they happen, they also predict hurricanes and it comes to pass. I prefer to listen to such people than religious charlatans that predict football matches and plane crashes but can't predict that a building in their complex is gonna collapse.

Guy you wan kill me with laugh. Thank your god that you said experiment. We believe based on experiment. The experiment is the equivalent of testing your claims for everyone to see not expecting people to take it by blind faith. The same experiments ensure that the next time mosquitoes bite you, your family don't start preparing funeral rites, the same experiments ensure that you don't have to walk for 3 days to get to kano but in 14 hours you can go across the Atlantic and land safely. The same experiment enables you to talk to all your loved ones even if they are in China. Hmm these experiments seem very useful.

You religious person that doesn't believe on blind faith. How do you know Mary was a virgin, or balaams donkey spoke, what of your Jesus spurious claims that he will be back before his disciples generation passes away, I guess he failed on that one too just like a failed experiment.

My brother the core and central virtue of religion is blind faith while that of science is critical reasoning and skepticism so tell me between the atheist and the theist who depends or follows his leader like a sheep. Which set of people drank poison in order to go to heaven, which set of people blow themselves up for 72 virgins, I guess it's atheists right, who gives 10% of his salary with the hope of getting triple in return even though that never actualized, I guess its the atheists.

Lennycool:
Nice one. The pastors are even the worse, his can someone believe this life is worth less than heaven. Yet own mansions and jets?
Even atheist such as mark zuckeberg and agnostics like bill gates and warren buffet have pledged to give more than 90% of their net worth to charity. This is billions of dollars we are talking about.
How many nigerian pastor has done this?
Yet Christians here will say atheist have no morals.

That's true, religion is like planet earth, the farther an astronaut goes from earth the more beautiful and spherical it looks.

But in religion its the opposite. The farther I live religion the more horrendous I see it when I look back. Similar to leaving a smelly toilet, when you are in the toilet you can adjust to it but when you leave for a while and step back in the difference is clear.

The more you leave it, the more similar they appear and the less unique your former religion is, the more you leave religion the clearer your mind shall be towards the egotistical and megalomaniac nature of the leaders, the more you leave religion, the more you realize that your rational thinking was actually the good guy in that mental battle and blind faith was the prison warden.
I just look at religious people and laugh.

But one good thing about religion is that for now it's actually the most heartfelt honest expression of human stupidity, this makes it so funny to observe and really entertaining.
Few things are funnier than seeing end time nutjobs talk about how Jesus might come next year and the funny thing is that when it doesn't happen instead of the fools to keep quiet, they recalibrate their prediction tool which is stupidity and get another date.

Or just imagine that your gateman that goes to living faith that gives his 2k tithe and sows 500 naira seed every Sunday hoping to ride a jeep very soon.

Or imagine the fools blabbering rubbish repeatedly and claiming to be speaking a language, there is a Pentecostal pastor I know that has basically 6 phrases that he repeats every prayer time and he calls it tongues but the stupid congregants can't even ask questions to themselves.

Well this comedy can only be possible because the power of religion has been tamed in this era. Living in medieval Europe as a freethinkers won't have been fun

Lennycool:
Hell is real

The above has become something of a mantra in most Christian circles.

Hell. The personal torture chamber of an all loving God.

Hell though being a New testament Invention is one of the most efficient tools used by Christianity to subjugate its followers.

The message is clear
Accept Jesus as your lord and saviour or burn forever in unquenchable fire.

Hell is nothing more than psychological bullying to force people into Christianity.
And it works, the fear of hell is so strong that when properly impacted and received no sane human would not accept Jesus Christ even a follower of another religion will start to have doubts.

But such fear cannot be maintained by the human mind and Christians slip into a steady state of denial of hell and its severity, its not forgetting hell per say its more like not maintain the fear, they push its prospect to the back of their mind and only think about it when it has been brought up extensively.

That is why during Christian programs when the fear of hell has been properly renewed and intensified in the mind of Christian, do we see people becoming born again and once again giving their life to Christ.
Not one of them thinks about the unstable logic behind an all loving God torturing his children forever. For transgressions committed in just one life time.
So effective is the fear that it even overrides logic.

But as I said before the mind cannot maintain this fear, as it serves the person no purpose. So a state of denial is necessary for a Christian to live a normal life.

The facts about hell are these and most Christian accept this
* Most of the Christians will go to hell
* Most of the people they love will go to hell
* Small transgressions will take you to hell

No one can truly have the fear of hell and not go mad

Imagine if you knew your best friend was going to burn forever in unquenchable fire. Wouldn't you do what ever you could to stop the person from going? And I'm not talking about preaching to the friend when its comfortable. If you were completely certain this person would suffer for eternity you would preach to the person always. Non stop until the friend repented and was no longer going to hell.

If you truly believed in hell, you would minimise human contact or cease it all together as they can lead you to hell. If you had a family you would probably move with them to an uninhabited location where it would be almost impossible to sin.
You would not have a radio or TV or mobile phone as all these can lead you to sin.
In fact any Christian that truly wanted to avoid hell would be by default Insane.

Most Christians erroneously state, when arguing with atheist, that they lose nothing by just believing in God. But the truth is that belief alone is not a criteria for heaven, odds are even if Yahweh is real the Christians
will still wind up in hell along side the atheists. As all sins are equal.

But the good news is that hell isn't real. As hard as it might be for the Christians to accept, I once wouldn't believe it myself, but it is the truth.

Hell is not real, it is simply a tool for control.

My brother from my interest in psychology I can honestly say that no existing Christian believes their stories up to 50%.
Not just hell, consider other aspects of Christian doctrines like the fact that the Pioneer of the universe lives in you and you can talk to him anytime but prayer is such a chore for them. Or even the fact that the so called creator wrote a book, reading the bible seems like the most uninspiring task for most of them.

Even the desire for an eternity and the champions and guardians of their institution[ pastors] live as if life on earth is the only thing ever, they strive to make their every moment flamboyant and expensive, they basically live lives like there is no heaven by acquiring all the wealth possible for themselves and striving to enjoy it.
Compare the lives of world billionaires like bill gates, zuckerberg, buffet to the lives of Pentecostal preachers. These preachers ain't even billionaires but they strive to milk every possible form of enjoyment from life including using all sorts of bodyguards, convoys, lodging in presidential suites of 5 star hotels and the like.

I think most freethinkers did not eventually stop believing but just moved their logical and natural unbelief in the ridiculous stories to the forefront of their conscious mind more like moving a card to the top of the stack. We freethinkers are just more honest. The psychological battle in Christendom involves villifying rational thought and reason when it exposes the fraud in religion, then the rational thinking is called a took of Satan, a work of the flesh while faith which is actually blind stupidity and credulity is glorified. Because of this mind games, religious people suppress logic to the bottom or subconscious mind.

But one can't cheat nature, even if they don't confess their unbelief and fight against reason, their actions motivations show what their mind actually accepts but they just have to suppress it and bring faith to the foreground esp when threatened with eternal torture. For them a risk they can't take.

But even with that, there are still the extremists that believe the load of crap to at least 30%. You can find them in the lowest rungs of the societal ladder, mostly uninformed, superstitious, inexposed folks. This group make up the bulk of ministries like The Lord's chosen, deeper life etc. But the average Christian can hardly swallow 15% of the horseshit in his religion. That's why they can't accept some biblical stories literally, they must find a way to rationalize or turn them into allegories.

Why is it easy for them to believe john 3:16 without batting an eyelid but when you show them Elishas infanticide in the OT, they squirm and wiggle round it cause deep down they know its morally horrendous for god to accept such nonsense.

The funny thing is that religion is like a living organism that can adapt to its immediate environments and can strategize to survive. Which modern day church will ever preach about genocide in the OT, or the painstaking voluminous 613 laws in Leviticus or even about avoiding marriage which is encouraged by Paul. Religion realizes society has evolved and it adapts to that to stay relevant.

UyiIredia:
The so-called overwhelming evidence for evolution is based on poor reasoning. For example, I've explained that similarities across different species is used as evidence of shared ancestry. This an unjustified inference that cuts across the evidence from comparative anatomy, genomics and embryology which notes such similarities.

Poor reasoning right.
Evolutionary biologists and all reputable medical and natural scientists accept it . With their understanding they have produced vaccines that have combated the worst and deadliest microorganisms and parasites. They produce vaccines and modify vaccines based on their knowledge of microevolution. Am sorry sir but people much more learned and reputable in the natural sciences accept it wholeheartedly.

The only reason you resist is because of blind faith and dogma and even according to your bible - the things of the spirit are foolishness unto the carnal mind". The only caveat here is that the Christian foolishness that Christians hope will turn and be proven to be wisdom is nothing more than outright foolishness for foolishness sake nothing more

rhektor:
You are lost of argument against it, right? Do yourself a favour accept the creationist account even you know without investigation that whatever is left to itself without care will decay

No reasonable learned exposes scientist accepts the useless genesis creation account. It goes against astronomy, geology, biology and every reputable verifiable scientific discipline.

Even if the ops points won't be refuted it doesn't mean that one must automatically jump to the baseless biblical creation account which is just one of the hundreds of cultural cosmological myths.

Just because I stand beside a Ferrari and I tell you that you don't own it cos you can't provide the key to it doesn't necessarily mean I own it unless I can produce the key, unlock the car and take off with it and even with further investigation, my details will have to tally in the vehicle particulars.

Sorry my friend, your biblical creation account is a primitive iron age creation myth that feeds of the god of the gaps fallacy.

jiggaz:
Mr or Miss Hell Fire, you are soo ignorant!! You are calling the Gospel of Christ a false doctrine? I can't engage you cos am above your reasoning.

Read my lips, all those people that died and woke up and claim to see believers and pastors in hell are all Liars!!!! There is no believer in Christ in Hell....

I don't engage Hypocritical / Judgemental Christians like you, i am above your league, so go find your kind.

Please take it easy with her.
But don't you think that your god can save all this confusion once and for all by using his might and power to communicate one doctrine to all humans that can't be falsified.
This doctrinal disputes caused the inquisition of the middle ages, caused the French religious wars and has caused so much bloodshed throughout history and people have died in this so called wrong doctrines. There are at least 10000 Christian denominations in the world. Why won't your god just end this confusion once and for all.

Why does his truth always have to emanate from the mind of a so called prophet spouting a revelation that cannot be confirmed independently but only by faith, this is the foundational problems in most religions and the cause of disputes even in Islam, Buddhism, hinduism.

Now see you and your fellow Christian sister, you guys can never agree on the doctrine of hell cause you are interpreting the scriptures one way while she does the other way, no way to confirm. Shouldn't there be an objective standard of testing and verifiability among the brethren.

noblefada:
Ok, let clarify some things.
I see that you’re not being honest. When you asked me concerning the earth being 4,000 – 10,000 years according to bible scholars. It is obvious you already knew that some Christians (sect as you call it) had already answered that, yet you used it as one of your major arguments. In other words either way I answered you had something to counter it. That’s not being fair and none of your logical friend could that out.
I have listened to some parts, and like I said earlier, you regurgitated some of the thoughts I heard. Most of them are outright lies, the others are mere esoteric beliefs that have no substance. There is nothing earth-shattering about those materials, bro. It's the same same mythical ideologies. They don't pose much of a challenge, believe me.
Your assertions that my Pastor said “the Holy Ghost to told” is making me doubt if we’re talking about the same person, because my Pastor has never said that and will never use such terminologies. For the records my Pastor is actually against personal revelation about the bible. Pls you know is name, kindly cross check your facts and come clarify to us where my Pastor actually used those words.
That being said, I’m a bit disappointed, I thought after listening to the track, you would have come with specific words my pastor and try and discredit them, rather than using spurious and bogus statement to describe what nobody knows about.
By the way when I mean snippets this is what I mean: for instance the teaching on “Understanding the law and the prophets” has two series consisting of 19 tracks and a total of 49 hours play time, so a snippet is to listen to just one track (may track 3 in series 1 which is 1hr 52mins) from begging to the end! Did you do that sir?



You see this why I sometimes have issues with those who cannot understand the bible (because they are spiritually dead) now trying to explain the bible more than those who it was written for. Let me educate you a bit, the book of genesis was written by Moses, it is obvious Moses wasn’t there because Moses was not born until Exodus 2. Therefore, Moses wrote the book of Genesis by revelation or what you will call today a vision. And in a vision, not all things are taken literally, some can be literal, some can be figurative, in the case of Genesis 2 & 3, the tree of life, three of knowledge and evil where all figurative. This why if study the bible, you will discover that in the old testament books, wherever the book of genesis is to be referenced they all stop at Abraham, because they did not have an understanding of the earlier part of the book.
Now why we know those stuff where figurative is very simple, the events in Genesis 3, was a major event that not only shaped humanity but after the bible itself because it is a very important subject. So out the book of Genesis, you will never see the tree referenced by anyone not even in the epistle, whenever it was to be referenced the writer used Adam disobeyed because they knew Moses was not talking about a tree. In fact the only mention of the 3 was the serpent in the book revelation “Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.” “Rev 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years”, so my dear stop arguing about something you don’t much about.
To take it a bit further and show you your folly, you did mention that satan was responsible for the deaths in the book of Job, but what the Job say “Job 1:21 And said, Naked came I out of my mother's womb, and naked shall I return thither: the LORD gave, and the LORD hath taken away; blessed be the name of the LORD, and Job 2:10 But he said unto her, Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil? In all this did not Job sin with his lips.” You say it was satan that was responsible but Job said it was God, So who do we believe

[b] I am sorry to have to say this, but you sir have got not much knowledge of the history of the church and the Bible.
Many of the books of the New Testament, including the four gospels and the 1 epistle of John, were written by people who lied about their identity, claiming to be a famous apostle — Peter, Paul or James — knowing full well they were someone else. In modern parlance, that is a lie, and a book written by someone who lies about his identity is a forgery.
This was what Bart Erhman, Distinguished Professor of Religious Studies, has to say about the scriptures:
"It is one thing to say that the originals were inspired, but the reality is that we don't have the originals—so saying they were inspired doesn't help me much, unless I can reconstruct the originals. Moreover, the vast majority of Christians for the entire history of the church have not had access to the originals, making their inspiration something of a moot point. Not only do we not have the originals, we don't have the first copies of the originals. We don't even have copies of the copies of the originals, or copies of the copies of the copies of the originals. What we have are copies made later—much later. In most instances, they are copies made many centuries later. And these copies all differ from one another, in many thousands of places. These copies differ from one another in so many places that we don't even know how many differences there are. Possibly it is easiest to put it in comparative terms: there are more differences among our manuscripts than there are words in the New Testament." [/b]

I truly don’t understand this guy, are you saying that the whole new testament is a forgery?? Books that have been studied by many theologians and religious professors, including archaeologists who are not Christians have studied for hundreds of years, who can verify that the events and places mentioned in the bible took place or exist, there are enough evidences that the accounts that the events in the New testament actually happened, in fact just last week the National Geography are excavating the burial tomb of Jesus (not that I’m into all this, just brought it up for the sake of this argument) and you come to discredit all it because something ONE so called prominent Professor I have never heard or know is religious of said about the authors. Please tell me who is more logical to be believed, one professor or the many other theologians, professors and archaeologists.

Now let’s examine the statement of your so called prominent professor, according to you he said why the scriptures was not valid was because “Not only do we not have the originals, we don't have the first copies of the originals. We don't even have copies of the copies of the originals, or copies of the copies of the copies of the originals and there were differences?”
I put in to you, that if anyone come today with the original manuscripts or copy of the copy of the original, then we should rather question its authenticity rather than rejoice over because of the following:
1. This manuscripts were original written by different people at different times, they were had written because at that time there was no printing press that could mass produced them.
2. Secondly, this were not private documents, but was intended for mass consumption hence several copies would have been made. At this point, let me say for instance, when Paul wrote to the church at Corinth, it was not just once assembly, but many different local smaller congregations within the city (Tit 1:5 For this cause left I thee in Crete, that thou shouldest set in order the things that are wanting, and ordain elders in every city, as I had appointed thee), so each local congregation would have duplicated a copy of the letter manually.
3. Now as the letter began to come, it was also duplicated by hand to other churches in other cities, because it was a public material for teaching Col 4:16 And when this epistle is read among you, cause that it be read also in the church of the Laodiceans; and that ye likewise read the epistle from Laodicea: so we can begin to see different copies of the same letter. Please still bear in mind there were no printing press at that time so the letter couldn’t be mass produced.
4. As it is well documented in history, the early Christians were severely persecuted and most time had to go into hiding. Wherever they were caught they were brutally murdered and their possession brunt. So, what do you think would have happened to the early books during such times?
5. All the early Apostles that wrote the New Testament were all brutally murdered at different times and in different places, so assuming they had the original on them as traveled, do you think those who murdered them would’ve been gracious enough to preserve the manuscripts for historic purposes?
6. As per the difference in the written, that can easily explained, you see in those times the major spoken language/official language was Greek, and since it was not their first tongue, there would have of course been some discrepancies when this materials where being manually copied, just like today, we have the English Language, which has at least the British version and the American version. And last this manual copying where done by men.
7. Finally as early as the 15th 16th century, the roman catholic church withdrew all the bible in circulation and only put a locked up Latin version of it in Libraries and Museums. Before it was later again re-translated to the bible we have now

So you see, we have to question anyone who claims to have the origin or copies of the copies of the original, because from what I mentioned from the foregoing, it would be practically impossible to still have the original manuscripts and may I had the writers of the scriptures never envisage that one day their writings will be compiled into one book. So it beats me if no one ever questioned or disproved the assertions made by your prominent professor. So here is my question, is the dispute over the bible a dispute about its author or the content?

As you can see, your claim about the Holy Spirit is unfalsifiable, there is no possible refutation of it. And that's why my questions are so pertinent: What has the Holy Spirit afforded you that unbelievers do not have? What is unique about the Holy Spirit in your life that differentiates you from other people who are not Christians? In other words, what is your unique advantage?

You see that is a major mistake many make, including some Christians, Muslims, agnostics and atheists alike, they think and believe that the Christians should be validated with physical things! That is a major error, because the Christians is essentially a life in and of the Spirit! Anything less than that if a false region and that’s why a man not born again can never understand or receive from it.
1Co 2:12-14 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. 13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
Again you can never convince a man who has ate honey severally that honey is NOT Sweet!

I still have more, but I’ll stop for now
Shalom.

My man your statement about archaeology and science confirming the events of the bible is false.
1. The flood in genesis has no empirical evidence of ever occurring.
2. The exodus from Egypt is found in no contemporary Egyptian or non Jewish records. Renowned archaeologists like Norman finkelstein and many others especially Jewish archaeologists have always been on a fact finding mission to prove the justification for Israeli occupation of Palestine and they have found nothing concrete to support the exodus from Egypt and the camping in the wilderness.

3. Till today, no archaeologist has found evidence for a golden glorious temple owned by Solomon. The empire's of David and Solomon have been widely considered to be largely exaggerated.

4. The town of Nazareth didn't exist as at the first century. You can Google that up yourself and please use objective historical sites not Christian creationist or apologist sites.

There are so many unscientific and unhistorical events that are documented in the bible that I can't completely measure them . Living in a Christian bubble will prevent one from seeing dissenting material but such materials abound. I even forgot to add, nothing in history is recorded concerning a mass murder by king herod and even a census that went on during the alleged birth of Jesus.

I didn't want to quote your whole post but I am using my phone so its difficult. I am just interested in were you said that historians and archaeologists have confirmed biblical events. Of course there are many biblical characters that existed like Pilate, herod, maccabeus, darius etc. There are also biblical events that can be confirmed like Roman occupation of Judea, babylonian captivity etc. But the bulk of the biblical stories are either allegorical or just unrealistic from a historical perspective for real historians and archaeologists not apologists.

Thank you

donnie:
LIE... You are dreaming the wrong dream.

Micah 4:1
In the last days, the mountain of the LORD's house will be the highest of all--the most important place on earth. It will be raised above the other hills, and people from all over the world will stream there to worship.

We are living in prophecy. Our dominion will increase until we check out of this world by rapture, allowing your master satan 7 years to do his thing until we return with the master himself to overthrow and establish his kingdom.

The kingdom work has already begun in the hearts of billions around the world.

Isaiah 9:7
Of the growth of his government and peace there will be no end. He will rule over his kingdom, sitting on the throne of David, to establish it and to uphold it with justice and righteousness from this time onward and forevermore. The zeal of the LORD of the Heavenly Armies will accomplish this.

I dont believe in your god so i dont think i should believe in your satan too. Google church attendance in europe and see the figures. Christianity is on a steep decline in europe and is already relgated to traditional status. As for america, it is on a gradual decline. I know christianity is on a rapid rise in africa but it will reach its zenith. And please stop quoting your story book for me cos its pure ancient iron age convoluted myths and fables.

kachi19:
I'm not a good Christian tho but so many times I believe God isn't fair. cos we have so many good people that have died, they strived to stay in the good side of the world tho they don't know God but according to la Bible they'll go to hell. I think that's the essence of dying; for eternal rest. Good people deserve a paradise when they die cos it takes a lot to lead a good life....
And Christians who didn't blot out a sin before dying, likely going to hell? maybe, maybe not! No one can tell. A Child of God who has been a devoted Christian, one day had a hot fight with wife and she accidentally killed him? well, Ahdunno wat he's gonna tell God this is how he died oh... God should pls adjust his terms and conditions for heaven common entrance oh even if Na gate man I will do

Have you ever considered that some of this contradictions might be a sign of something bigger like "the whole story doesnt make sense and god has nothing to do with it".
In life you cant have a square circle and you cant have a cold cup of boiling water. This applies to religion also, how can god be all loving and still allow this injustice. The doctrine of eternal torment was created by medieval catholic clergy to whip dissenters back in line and it has worked wonders. If that doctrine is false and it somehow is in the bible then think of all the things that could be forged.

EyeHateGod:
God aka God the Father
I'm weary of arrogant Christians claiming their god is great and good and allloving, allknowing, allpowerful, etc., etc. They don't know of what they speak.
Let's start by calling this god by its stated name, Yahweh. I don't understand why people go around discussing god, with a capital G, instead of calling this god by his name. I have a clue as to why religious people would do this. Saying, "God said," is so much more commanding than saying "Yahweh said." It throws the listener off, makes them forget that this god, as all others, has been created by man.
But why would atheists engage in conversations with religious people about their gods without calling them by their given names. Discussing god with a capital G simply empowers the religious and their delusions. The Abrahamic god is named Yahweh. He is a god among many other gods and he is aware of that fact.
The first commandment Yahweh gave to the Israelites was, "Thou shalt have no other gods before me." Yahweh, or more correctly whoever it was who wrote the portion of the bible that contains the ten commandments, knew that there were other gods around. The Israelites were commanded to put Yahweh first
on their list of gods. I could say much more about these commandments, but as our focus is on the identity of the Christian god, I shall refrain.
So what do we know about this Yahweh? Yahweh was not the god of thunder, or of the sun, or of the wind, or of any aspect of nature. He was the god of the Israelites. He was not the god of any other nation. According to the writers of the Torah, Yahweh chose the nation of Israel from all other nations on earth. As far as I know, Yahweh never extended that supposed honor to any other people. Paul, in his efforts to establish the Christian religion, made that invitation to people outside the nation of Israel. In preaching Jesus as the son of the Jewish god Yahweh, by default Paul's Christians accepted the Yahweh of the old testament as their god.
And so we ask again, who is this god Yahweh?
The first question in the ancient Israelite mind seems to have been "How did we get here," as they begin their sacred religious book with the story of creation. So Yahweh is a creator and what he created is good and satisfying, according to his own opinion.
Yahweh is quite satisfied with how he appears, as he makes man in his own image. We find this in Genesis 1:27. Yahweh makes them male and female in his own image. And then Yahweh creates a garden and sets man into it. Somehow though, the set of humans, male and female, of verse 27 loses its female component further on in the text. Thus Yahweh kindly notices that his man is alone and needs a helper. Yahweh lets the guy name all the animals first before scheduling the man's surgery. Now instead of being formed out of dust the same time as the male, the woman is formed out of the man's rib. It doesn't really matter which version of events is the one you wish to go with. Christians should have a problem, however, as if both are true, there are two Eves to contend with. The Israelites solved this problem by naming one of the women Lilith in their exegesis of the texts. But I don't see this theory as a solution for Christians who believe the bible is to be understood literally.
My observation here is that so far Yahweh's not such a bad guy. He sets himself a task and completes it. He admires his own work which, according to his own pronouncement, is a good thing. He is a bit on the narcissistic side in making a creature in his very own image. Yahweh does show empathy though, with his man's situation of being a male without a mate. And it seems Yahweh is generous in giving the man a mate and then giving them a beautiful garden to live in. There is a question in my mind though as to how this god could empathize with his creature not having a mate, when he himself was without one. Why did Yahweh not assume that the man would be just fine alone.
What if Yahweh hadn't meddled in the affairs of men?
But Yahweh couldn't leave well enough alone. He's not just the happy go lucky creator of a little universe for his own amusement. He had to throw a spell into the mix. After all, this all was for Yahweh's amusement. He decided to place a tree in the garden that he didn't want his man to eat. And being an allknowing god, Yahweh knew his man would eat the fruit of this tree. After all, it was good fruit. It became ripe, just as the other fruit trees in the garden became ripe. The fruits fell to the ground as they ripened. The only job the fruit had to do was to spread its seeds. Birds came and sat on the branches and ate their fill of the ripe fruit. Primitive monkeys and other fruit eating creatures had their fill of the fruit also. But Yahweh said the man couldn't have it.
We all know the rest of the story, how the serpent tempted the woman and the woman tempted the man. Yahweh had simply put his creations into a situation that they would fail at. I'm not sure what character trait that would be. It seems as if Yahweh had contempt for his creation. All indications that he was happy with his creation are now gone. Yahweh is moody, fickle. I find it impossible to take any of this seriously, but religious people swear by this stuff. I thoroughly doubt they understand the implications of the myth they have chosen to believe.
One could call Yahweh a prankster, but that is too tame for what he is. If he'd just said, "hey, don't eat that tree in the middle," and then had a little laugh to himself, knowing it was the best tasting stuff in the garden and that it was harmless. If he'd just stopped at having a good laugh with his man after his man finally got around to eating the fruit. "Ha, scared the shit out of you, didn't I man?" Yahweh could have joked with his man.
But Yahweh turned red with rage. When he said something, he meant it and would tender no mercy. He cursed the serpent; he cursed the woman; he cursed the ground; and he cursed the man. And he put all the blame on the man and woman, excusing his own role in the situation. Yay we accepted no responsibility for setting up his two people and placing them in a sticky situation.
Fruit trees usually ripen at different times throughout the season. If we imagine the woman hanging around the tree in the middle of the garden, it is possible that this was the only tree bearing ripe fruit at the time. Otherwise, what was the point of venturing so far into this vast area that was their garden. If the woman had come upon other fruit first, she simply would have taken that back to her lodging for herself and her man to eat. When looking for food, who would pass up perfectly good fruit when it was happened upon. The natural thing would be to go ahead and feed yourself as soon as you find good food.
Yahweh is in no way willing to give his creation a break, no second chance. He confronted these two quivering human beings, not with love, but with anger. Christians put their own spin on the activities of their god in these stories. Yahweh was a god of his word. He told his creation that they would die if they ate of the tree. The man and woman ignored his warning and now they had to suffer the consequences.
Christians choose to believe it was the fault of Adam and Eve, as they are left trembling, with their new found unclothedness covered in skins of the first animals sacrificed on the earth. And the act of sacrifice, in this case killing to atone for unclothedness, was introduced to man by Yahweh. To add insult to injury, Yahweh wasn't willing to punish his man and woman alone. Children, not yet born, and to the end of time, would also have to bear the guilt of Yahweh's creation.
And so the biblical myth makers and recorders of Jewish and Christian tradition have taken Yahweh from a creative fellow who enjoyed his work and was narcissistically pleased with his own image, into a vengeful, unforgiving tyrant. This is a god who can be joyfully creative and vengefully spiteful. Yahweh is a god of multiple, often conflicting, traits. And we have learned all of this about Yahweh in the first three chapters of Genesis.
We've barely made a dent in becoming acquainted with this god.
Yahweh was like other gods of ancient days. He was unable to refrain from meddling in the affairs of humans. As with Adam and Eve, so with their two first born sons. The story of Cain and Abel has so many applications that have nothing to do with its being historical. Like Aesop's Fables, the biblical stories can teach some truths about human beings and their culture. You must look elsewhere for exegeses or morals. We need to look at Yahweh and his part in the story.
Favoritism is well known among human beings. We favor our kin; we favor the strong; we favor the rich; we favor for seemingly no reason at all. If Yahweh had a reason for favoring Abel over Cain, we are not told, though he does make some vague references to sin. Whatever is going on, Cain is extremely angry. This one instance could not have aroused such great anger, an anger capable of murder. Therefore this must have been an ongoing situation.
After the murder, Yahweh feigns ignorance about the event at first and then makes a statement about the brother's blood calling from the soil. It's all so unemotional, so unfeeling. Yahweh favored Abel but doesn't seem that concerned by his death. His only response is to curse Cain. It seems what Yahweh has been best at is
setting up his humans for failure so that he could curse them.
Yahweh resembles many of the ancient gods in nature. He looks human and he has human emotions. He meddles in the affairs of humans. He expects his people to make sacrifices to him. Not much different than the other gods of old, is he? He is petty and unforgiving, cruel beyond comprehension. And yet Christians claim the god they worship is good and all loving. Christians are worshiping some god, but if we are to go by characteristics, the god they worship is not Yahweh, the god of the Israelites. It seems to me Yahweh has evolved as times have changed. That rather blows the idea that the lord god, Yahweh, is unchanging. Oops.
Source:AtheistRepublic

The good thing about religion is that when studied it opens up a window into the lives of ancient people, it is a strong historical tool. Just like watching wildcats on discovery or national geographic, it looks so cool to see them lions, tigers, jaguars from afar but being faced with one would be a horrendous experience. Thats how i see religion, for someone like me that loves learning history, religion can be an invaluable tool but being caught up in the whole mix is nauseating or would i say"not fun".

I like your analysis, the funny thing is that christians dont understand that the jews who were a breakaway canaanite clan actually saw yahweh as their god of war similar to Aries in greek mythology. The El or Elohim specified in the bible was actually the canaanite Father God and Yahweh ansd Asherah were seen as a couple by some canaanites based on archaelogical findings. Yahweh was actually a member of a pantheon of Gods of which El was the father.

But the funny thing about religion lies in the fact that the characters are man made and so malleable and flexible, so you can imagine Zeus and Jupiter being fused into one, thats the same way that Yahweh and Elohim were fused into one character. But religious folks are too ignorant to notice this mild religious evolution and just like biological evolution, it takes time for it to be complete. The evolution of Yahweh still continues till this day, now looking at nigeria, the god of the 21st century is no longer preoccupied with holiness and rapture as he was in the 80s, his major preoccupation is blessing people based on seeds and offerings, ensuring that people possess their possessions and fulfill their destiny, in reality shouldnt yahweh be in a hurry since the end time should be actually closer now than the 80s when his messengers were only receiving and relaying messages of fire and brimstone.

The beautiful thing about this process is that it has a parallel with evolution by natural selection, the finer parts of the god mythology survive based on immediate societal viewpoints, the atrocities of the old testament and the stupidity of putting man in a garden knowing fully well that he would fail can be likened to the presence of vestigial organs like our appendix and tail bones. We humans dont need those organs the same way christianity as an institution doesnt need the barbarity of the old testament but i guess its too late for them. They can only ignore it and try to make sense out of it by actually ascribing everything to the wisdom of god that is above mans wisdom.

TomHagen:
License to sin.

Dont you think you are portraying your god as wicked. What can a man do for 80 years of existence that will warrant over a 100 billion years of lynching and torture. Does that sound loving and kind. Or are gods ways too much for me or any man to fathom

No be only coming soon. Nonsense Christards

Since the beginning of christianity even before the persecutions of nero, christians expected the end of the world to come soon. Boy where they disappointed. There has never been any decade for the past 2000 years of christianity when we werent in the end times. Never

Continue waiting for Jesus to come. I foresee the world relegating christianity to relic status by next century.

The reason why god left the tree of life there is the same reason why the writer who ends a story will most likely contradict the original authors viewpoint esp when they havent met.

The writers of the genesis story did not have the modern view of gods omniscience. They portrayed their god as a powerful supernatural creator of the world but they didnt add the omniscience feature in his fictional arsenal. Thats why we ask this questions now, the original authors didnt plan that their books would be juxtaposed with later writings called the new testament so they didnt care about reconciling this facts together. The book of genesis wasnt written to be a later christian book but as a book of cosmological origins of humanity and most especially the jews with borrowed adaptations and mythology from the sumerian origin and deluge myths.

As for the Ops direct question, the direct answer is that God didnt put a tree of life in the garden of eden, a creator of the universe would be smarter than setting up his creation for perpetual failure and prolonged suffering all in the name of testing. The story is allegorical and mythological.