rhektor:




Sorry to disappoint you, I'm not saying that, have I? Hasty generalisations from someone who claim to be Mr know all Smh. I am no match for your Atheism, why should I? Since Atheism has nothing to offer me or what has Atheism done for the world? [/b]NOTHING [b]
You may debunk this I'm waiting.

The burden of proof is on you. In case you didn't do basic philosophy, when you present a claim, the responsibility of proving that claim lies on you.

The intellectual laziness that will prevent you from summarizing that video here on nairaland is similar to the intellectual laziness Christians exhibit and that's why they never research beyond their myopic worldview cos its too stressful to not believe in god.

Expecting me to debunk that video is like me telling you that there is a 10 million dollar suitcase buried 50 feet beneath your house and I ask you to debunk it. So you would actually sweat and dig 50feet to uncover something that I can't bring evidence for?

I never claimed to know everything, I will always state it unequivocally that freethinkers, agnostics and even scientists etc don't know up to 5 percent of the make up and happenings of the universe but we are humble enough to accept that and keep on moving on with research.

But ironically on average we freethinkers are more exposed , well read on diverse subjects and even better bible students than you Christians but somehow you guys happen to have the secrets to the universe locked up in your 5000 year old holy book. You guys make the bigger claim here but just like life, empty barrels always make the loudest noise.

If You want to escape the argument please escape and don't use this excuse that we claim to know everything so you won't summarize the video. Imagine yourself being a lawyer in a law court and the judge asks you to present your opening arguments and you now suddenly point to a book claiming all the arguments are in it and the opposing lawyer should actually read that book and debunk it, won't the judge be flabbergasted at such laziness that prevents a counsel from detailing his own arguments, how can such a counsel present anything reasonable.

bennyann:


LiberaDeus (free God?) , you guys seem to love Latin.

Anyway, I'll like to say my good night here. But first let me tell you what I desire for you from my heart, I don't know if you'll agree with me though.

I hope curiosity doesn't defeat you, I prefer you be the one to defeat curiosity.

Good night.

LiberaDeus - free of god.

Curiosity is just like light, no matter how fast light is, it will take a photon of light 600,000 years to transverse our milky way galaxy. It will take a photon of light 13.5 billion years to get to the supposed end of our infinite universe. Light is mind bogglingly fast but it never outpaces our universe.
Curiosity is beautiful, it is enlightening but unfortunately there is so much to know in the universe that the best curiosity can do is to show you how much you really don't know.
A God that created the universe cannot be threatened by the mere feeling of human curiosity because it is to puny and infinitesimal for him just like the photon of light.
A real god will encourage curiosity and any curiosity that kills god only kills a weak, finite and counterfeit god.

Thank you for your wishes
Goodnight.

bennyann:


I won't be surprised if your observation is an answer to a question that's been on my mind.

There is this song sang by Donnie Mcclurkin, it goes like this :

If there were no gates of pearl
If there were no streets of gold
If there was no other world
And a land where we won't grow old

I'm not thinking about those sights
Won't be there to enjoy the view
I think heaven will be alright
As long as Your there, as long as there is You

[Vamp:]
When we all get to heaven
What a day of rejoicing that will be
When we all see Jesus
We will sing and shout the victory

I love this song so much because it shows my desire of nothing else but Jesus, but God. I never would have been able to come up with those words on my own but it was so amazing the writer of the song felt the same way. That nothing else matters but Jesus


I remember suggesting using the song for ministration but many were against it, saying they don't want to go to heaven now. I was shocked because I felt all gospel love songs should be cherished by Christians.

I started wondering why since then. So I wouldn't be surprised if the answers can be found in your write ups.

Circumstances of life has never changed my love for God, that's why I know He's the one who has placed that love in my heart because I wouldn't have done that on my own. My life hasn't been that rosy, infact, I can say my life hasn't been rosy at all. I'm still waiting for it to be rosy even if it's just for a second. And believe me, I'm very hopeful in Him. And I also can't wait to share the expected testimonies here with everyone.

The love for God keeps me going, no matter what happens around me. Maybe it's because I've made the decision to love Him no matter what. There's this joy and peace I feel on the inside that comforts me. I feel that peace gives me direction because when it's like I'm about straying in any way, the peace tends to reduce. So that peace is like a traffic light to me. And it gives me so much joy to always feel that peace.

Love brings joy and peace. Love is the secret. Believe me I wouldn't want to hurt the one I love. And I'm grateful it's God I am in love with.

About hell, I wouldn't want to talk about it. Because my confidence in quoting you, my encouragement to have quoted you was gotten from my love experience for God and has nothing to do with hell.

I pray that if truly there's an Almighty God, if truly there's any God that bears the title God of all gods, may He reveal Himself to us, may He draw us closer to Him and may He give us the grace to draw closer to Him also. - to as many that are willing to know the true God.

You have a wonderful relationship on your mind[heart] with someone. If it brings out the very best in you then it shouldn't be an issue for anyone.

With my deep study of religious beliefs and behavior I can classify people in 2 groups ;

1. The people that want security - most human beings fall into this group, they want to feel safe from forced beyond their control and they are willing to do anything for that. Once they get to point of emotional stability and security then they have achieved peace and they won't risk it for anything. That stability might come from having a conviction that they are heaven bound, having a love for something or someone that erases anxiety etc. For people like this, the risk of discovering truth just doesn't appeal to them, why would they want to understand deeper philosophical and cosmological truths and in the process risk the beautiful security they have created for themselves. These people can end up religious even without being indoctrinated from childhood, they can become religious because the lure of something bigger and more powerful than themselves is so satisfying and it fills their desire for internal security.

2. The second group are the people who long for understanding and will stop at nothing trying to understand life unless they reach and insurmountable obstacle to their knowledge. People like this are similar to cats for which the phrase was coined " curiosity kills the cat". These people might achieve security internally and externally but any void or hole of knowledge must be filled, they will eventually not fill every void of knowledge[ that being impossible] but they will venture so far out of the normal intellectual barriers set by society that their mental sojourn will most likely leave them changed to a point of no correction.
These are the people that notice the flaws in their religion and never successfully ignore those flaws even when they want to , they can't ignore them because they have an insatiable desire to understand as long as they can grasp it. These people most likely end up as freethinkers no matter the level of indoctrination.


The members of the latter group are usually the leaders of new movements, the reformers of popular thought and philosophy. They mostly stand out and sometimes are vilified by the mainstream but later on their ideologies begin to grow. Almost all religious leaders like Muhammad, Jesus and Buddha were like that when they started. They reformed existing ideologies but the ironical thing is that their followers mostly being of the former group created a home in those ideologies and did not consistently reform them but used these ideologies as a form of internal and political stability. This thought reform process will continue occurring in history and modern day liberal Christianity and agnosticism are products of a thought reform process occurring at a more alarming pace because of the existence of the internet and free speech.

I have to commend you because unlike the other Christians here, you are not aggressive, judgemental and most importantly you don't play or the logical and mental gymnastics they perform just to avoid being debunked. It is a good spirit and I wish humanity had more of that. But you have to know that this your character is not Christian in nature no matter what your fellow Christians say, believing you are chosen to spend eternity in heaven and others will be fanned, also believing you know the king of kings and supreme creator of the universe always leaves a distasteful, arrogant, hypocritical character in the minds of Christians.

Thank you

bennyann:


I'm sorry dear but that's not how Christians should be. Who knows maybe that's why so many Christians are no longer Christians because they are afraid of the unknown. If we do lots of research we will find out the Bible is clearly against fear. You just have to respect God.


Anyways, the reason I quote you with so much confidence is because FEAR isn't my driving force but LOVE. I love God sooooo much, too much that I've given my all to Him and I'm not scared of tomorrow. I'm not even scared of death not to talk about hell. I'm not scared of what man can do to me or this body of mine.

The love for God, the hunger and thirst for God is my driving force. That's the secret to being a successful Christian.

I'm sure anyone whose driving force in Christianity is fear of the unknown and not love for God, it'll be hard for that Christian because it opens doors for the enemy to have the upper hand against him.

For God hasn't given us the spirit of fear, but of power of love and of a sound mind .

There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love .

Love and fear are mutually exclusive. If we have perfect love we will not fear. But if we have fear we do not have perfect love


To all the Christians here, fear is our greatest enemy.
A spirit of fearfulness and timidity does not come from God. I urge us to be like king David when he said he will not be afraid because his trust is in the Lord.

In Matthew 10, Jesus told us not to be afraid cos we are worth more than many sparrows.

Isiah 41:10
“Do not fear, for I am with you; Do not anxiously look about you, for I am your God I will strengthen you, surely I will help you, Surely I will uphold you with My righteous right hand.

So my dear Christians, “Why are you fearful, O you of little faith?”.

The secret is Love and not fear.

Love of God is what has been sustaining me and still sustains me in Him. I don't know if it's because I'm the type who loves hard, but I pray such love for God will not be taken away from me.

I love you Lord with all my heart and all my soul and all that is within me, and I pray you bless me with so much love for you so that nothing can separate me from your love.

My friend the unfortunate thing about Christianity is that you can find scriptures to back every thing up.

If you say love should be the motivation for Christianity then what do you have to say about scriptures that talk about hell and eternal torment. The crux of the Christian faith is saving humanity from eternal torment and damnation. Please is such an appeal not an appeal to run from danger and torture and embrace glory.

It is a typical carrot and stick approach. For you what is important now is your desire for god. But ask yourself what happens when that desire falters, when your desire to praise and worship reduces, when the troubles of life come?
You won't cease being a Christian because there is another motivation that should keep you in line which is avoiding the wrath of god. That motivation is fear, it kept the ancient Jews in Yahweh worship, kept the medieval Catholics in obedience to the Vatican, it keeps children in Islam, in Mormonism, in Christianity etc. That is the longest lasting and most reliable tool to keep people in religion.

Tell me the truth, how many people do you know that have such a desire to go to heaven?

In reality, many are not so freaked out by living and praising god forever, many don't want to live for more than a 1000 years, many find heaven to be a bit boring but there are surely some who want to be there and who want to know god. If churchgoing can serve as an indicator of how well people desire heaven then it goes to show that most people ain't enthusiastic about church services, many are not enthusiastic about gospel music that's why secular artists are the best selling. This shows that people are not really desiring the so called presence of god which also shows that many are not really desiring eternal fellowship in a heaven with god. But you might be the type that desires it.

But please tell me, do you know any human being that doesn't have a slight fear of hell or even fire. All mammals fear fire. The fear of hell is the strongest motivator and the most effective. It goes to show that many church goers are only there because they feel its the right thing to do to avoid the eternal wrath of god. If there was no doctrine of hell, you would see more freethinkers because people won't be scared to scrutinize Christianity.

This is what the medieval Catholics discovered that made them decide to twist and contort the new testament to create a fearful, terrible, horrendous doctrine of eternal damnation. That ploy elongated the lifespan of Christianity and also the length of the Catholic dominance of Europe. This psychological ploys work in every religion and Christianity isn't exempt.

rhektor:



Maybe you should watch this and disprove it uniteligently as your atheist way


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qz77atYHTOA

I first try to spell words correctly before claiming intelligence or calling others fools.

Why do you refer me to peoples arguments when you can learn them and come and present them here.
I have watched that video and some other videos by the same YouTuber
Its the same old arguments from design and precision.
These things have been argued here on uncountable occasions. You don't expect me to start typing my points against it when you were lazy to type your points.
And if I start disproving it, you might claim some things I said weren't referenced in that video.

Do yourself and other theists a favor, bring all the points summarized in the video like;
1. Position of the earth in our solar system
2. Position of the moon
3. The flagellum bacteria
4. The irreducible complexity of the eye

Explain them and get rebuttals from me and other freethinkers. That can't be a problem cause the arguments have gone on on so many threads before this.
I won't do your dirty work for you. I can also refer you to YouTube videos that explain and debunk the theory of a creator but I won't do that cause we are on nairaland, nairaland is nairaland not a shortcut for YouTube.

And talking about intelligence, it's clear that from my level of exposure to so many diverse fields of science and social sciences and even comparing the way we write that you are not my match or any other atheists match when it comes to intelligence.

And you are a Christian, I am sure when the twisted Christian logic has been cornered and debunked, you will retreat back into your shell and make the usual claim your kind make which is
" spiritual things cannot be understood by the carnal mind" ,

" the wisdom of man is foolishness in the eyes of god" ,

" when you die you will stand before your maker and by then it will be too late to save yourself from hell".

I know it will eventually come to that. I am just waiting.

@joycontramundum

Don't mind the selfish delusional christard.
Do they even think of the effect of their stupid faith, they expect all their ancestors, relatives, friends and even Muslim friends to burn forever in agony. It doesn't even move them one inch.

The minds that created the Christian god were wicked depraved , primitive minds. And that's why their creation still propagates in the minds of their believers. Christians are usually hypocritical, selfish, delusional etc.
Something built on a wrong foundation can never produce the right results.

flamingREED:


Enjoy your delusion to hell.

Don't think I'll plead with you to reason.

And in the end that's all Christians have to say when the twisted logic is brought bare. Enjoy your ride in hell, don't say I didn't warn you, it will be the worst thing ever etc

For those reading, the reason why when push comes to shove, the major thing all Christians will come to do is to threaten you with hell, not appeal with common sense, not appeal with love, nah, the major thing is hell is because when you strip Christian doctrine to the core, what remains is really the fear of the unknown.

That is the core driving force and motivation, that's why Christians can't understand why one will risk hell for just a very short life since they have been deluded to think that they will exist for over a billion years and will either spend that time in a glorious medieval mansion or in writhing agony.

This is the real driving force and purpose of Christianity and most religions which in is using fear to control independent human beings.

Just like when you carry a computer and strip it bare, the most important component is the processor even though there are other components.

Likening Christianity to a computer, it has components like morality, miracles, prophecies, hope of glory, praise, worship but the processor and driving force is the fear of eternal damnation, torture and rejection.
Fear is the worst motivator to use to accept something as true because the very nature of fear clouds critical thinking.

Its fear that lions use to put a herd of buffalos to a chase and they never think of the fact they can actually stop and kill the lion because fear cannot and will not promote critical thinking. Christians are like that here while freethinkers are the few who have questioned what they have believed and are facing the lion fair and square and have also discovered that there is nothing to be scared of.

Coming to reality, if he says I should enjoy my delusion to hell, the only question I have is this

Which hell is he talking about?

1. Christian Catholic hell
2. Christian mormon hell
3. Christian Jehovah witness hell
4. Islamic hell
5. Islamic Shia hell
6. Buddhist hell
7. Zoroastrianism hell
8. Hindu hell

Please if you pick any hell or say that its the Christian hell I am going to then you have dismissed all the other hells and if you dismissed them then kindly give the reason and if you give a logical reason , kindly apply that reason to your religion.

Thank you

LoJ:
Hello,


Some of you people confuse focus and exclusion.

If I say, "Black lives matter" I am not saying "White lives do not matter". I focused on Black lives, but did not necessarily exclude White people.

In focusing on christianity, Johnydon22 did not mean ATR is good, or even better than Christianity. So with a biased reading of his write up, we miss the point.


And the simple point is: Christians (or others) do not have the right to destroy the worship places of ATR (or others) simply because of conflicting beliefs.

If you claim it is because children are sacrificed there, then: - Christianity is far from blameless, does it justify the burning of churches?
- If you see children about to be sacrificed, save the children. You do not need to burn a worship place.

Greetings.

But we also have to be honest to ourselves. Are those places used as worship places or planning grounds for evil?

bennyann:


Forgive me please, I tried not asking but I couldn't help it.

I will like to know if you were among those that faked speaking in tongues. Because it was said here and maybe by you that it wasn't real.

AND can you also tell me what you meant by you felt the power of the Spirit?

I didn't fake it. I couldn't speak in tongues for the first 6 months of being born again. I couldn't bring my self to fake it. It came after much prayer in a particular night vigil.

The experience of speaking in tongues is not fake as most non Christians think it is. There are clearly some people that fake it but I can guess that at least half the people that do it don't fake it. In speaking in tongues, you feel a stirring inside you and suddenly it pops to the surface and utterances come out. For the average christian, this must be a sign of the power of god. But in reality, the experience involves the subconscious taking over the conscious for a while and it can be put on and off like a tap.

The fact that the tongues are usually words or syllables uttered in a careless manner goes to show that it isn't related to the real speaking in tongues that was spoken about in acts of the apostles whereby the apostles spoke other people's languages.

Early Pentecostals found this out and never let go of it, they immediately tied it to the tongues in acts of the apostles. But in reality, it is a phenomenon that goes on in many religions like ifa , voodoo, Sufism, bahai, paganism etc.
For the average mind, the phenomenon is so wonderful that immediately you experience it you tie it to the presence and power of god. One thing it does is to increase confidence.

The funny thing about it is that no matter what you do you can turn it off and on at will. I can still do it and when one at do it I don't mean fake it but I mean the real stirring inside and utterances.

You can have sex and do it, you can be doing anything and be doing it. This just goes to show that it can't be spirit inspired since even without the so called presence of god , one can still feel and do it. It shows it is purely neurological.

For your second question, when people say power of the spirit, they most likely mean a deep feeling that is not normally experienced by man, something so awesome and joyful. For the average mind that already believes, this is seen as a true testament to God's power.
For me, it meant feeling an awesome presence of god and also feeling in awe of that presence, praying and praising and feeling joy unspeakable, supernatural vibrations, hearing the still small voice, getting a rhema etc.
When Christians say things like " I can never stop believing because I have the evidence in my heart" , this is what they hold on to in reality. Its this experiences that forms the crux of the modern Pentecostal faith and because of this many Christians can afford to twist logic on its head because it doesn't matter if the bible doesn't make sense or prophecies don't come true, for them what matters is that they can feel and hear god.

What you have to know is that all these things are not spiritual as we claim but deeply psychological. Just because neuroscience hasn't explored it doesn't mean we should immediately substitute a god there. The brains neural pathways have been explored to just 15percent, so we have 85 percent of neural functions to explore. There is a high probability that all these feeling and experiences are buried there. For the Christians that experience these things, I don't argue with their experiences, I don't see why a grown man will want to be screaming and rolling in church for attention, it's clear these spiritual gymnastics are not done willfully but as people are led by this deeply psychological experiences.

One might ask, why does it happen only in churches where the presence of god is, well that's because the people there believe it . Belief is a very powerful precursor to such things .

To prove my point, Google the documentary MarJoe, it's about a boy forced to be a preacher by his parents but later decongestants, he starts a ministry but secretly gives a documentary to journalists about how fraudulent it is. Even though his intentions were fraudulent , people were still moved by the power of the spirit[ deep emotional experiences], the congregation spoke in tongues, rolled on the floor, wept before the presence of god and did all things imaginable. He showed the journalists how he could achieve that just with music and basic psychology. These so called power of the spirit could be replicated by a fraudster. That's why I keep telling Christians not to judge truth by their personal convictions or feelings but to compare facts .
The documentary won an academy award.

@ OP I might be a freethinker like you but I believe I stand with Naijadeyhia on this one.

Evil forests are an emblem of primitive superstition.
Killing of twins in calabar occured in evil forests, there the kids were thrown into the forest to meet the spirits.

Evil forests are normal areas of land that can be used as reserves, farms, mining areas, resorts and for many good purposes. Clearing it is like clearing a physical barrier created by superstition and also freeing people's minds and showing them that there is nothing powerful there.

The Christians might have been doing it with their normal religious blind fervor but in the end the effects won't be bad in the long run.

We can't be against the blindness of religion and still paint African traditionalists as good guys. That would be hypocritical because ATR still has the normal symptoms of all religions.

flamingREED:


Keep scrutinizing.

When you're tired of deceiving yourself,
I'm sure you'll come back to Him who only rose from death.

Concerning rising from the dead, Mithra rose from the dead. Horus rose from the dead. Krishna rose from the dead. Dionysus also resurrected.

You said I am deceiving myself but in reality the person who has exposure to just one worldview and keeps preventing contrary or dissenting information from entering his brain all in a bid to preserve the so called sanctity of his own truth is the one that is consciously deceiving himself.

The same way I can never go back to primary school is the same way I can never be a Christian again.

Anas09:

Am sorry, i could read beyond your first paragraph. I cant beleive you can be that naive.

Am sorry you are the naive brainwashed religious extremist. The fact you couldn't read past the first paragraph is not new to Christians. You always select what you want to hear in order to preserve your precious beliefs.

I didn't beg you to read, you asked a question and when I gave you the answer you acted like a typical christian, stuck your hand in your ears and sung lalalala . How mature.

Our thinking levels can never be the same. You are stuck in a mental cage and kept there by the ongoing desire to acquire a golden mansion and crown after you die and also kept in line by the fear of being lynched in unbearable heat forever. You are the simple one here my friend cause you could never look beyond the whole facade.

Anas09:

You mean you once communed with the Holy Spirit but you cast Aspertion at Him?

Lets see, this Five Years you spent communing with the Holy Spirit, WHAT WAS YOUR TESRIMONY OF CONVERSION? That specific encounter that made you turn away from the world and faced Christ.
What was it?

Yea I communed with him and cast aspersions on him. Is that bad? Am sure you had an imaginary friend when you were young.

Having a relationship with someone in your mind doesn't necessarily mean the person is real. The relationship and the emotional bind formed are real but the person must not be real. If you understand how the brain works you won't find that puzzling.

Am not gonna tell you my conversion experience because you will use the same old Christian argument that says I never was really converted and i never had a true relationship with him. I don't have time to run round in circles with you.

The only thing I have to tell you is that the only reason why one would never question the spiritual relationship he is in with a divine being is because of fear of offending the being. That cycle of fear will always keep one from knowing the truth.

bbfever:



Lol only 5yrs? Then this convo is done. I was like you for almost 17yrs. I really do not think we need to continue this convo for the simple reason that I was like you for almost 17yrs and now I have been in the faith for over 20yrs so on both sides I TRUMP you when it comes to experiences. So thank you for your time.

Guy I said 5 years cause that's when I decided to be devout. I was born into a Christian home and spent the first 20 years of my life being Christian.

And I am 100% sure that you were never an agnostic or atheist. But you can claim all you want. In short, you were like me for 40yrs and I was like you for 2 yrs , does it matter?
What matters is the strength of your reasons and how verifiable they are. I don't understand why you will read my response and the only point you can pick out is how long I was devout . I posted other points but you chose to ignore them because they didn't suit your preferred conclusion which is " I am right and I am sure about it and you are wrong" .

That is the conclusion of every Christian fundamentalist who uses the locked room scenario to protect his beliefs. In reality that locked room is blind faith and with such wilful stubbornness and ignorance then no one can be wrong.

I am sure that 1 plus 1 is equal to 4. Don't ask me how. The fact you are asking shows that you are not on my level of perception. I can see things that you can't see and your perception will never allow you see it until you allow my god to speak to you but first accept everything my god says including the fact that 1+ 1 = 4. Accept it because without faith you can't please my god.

Thank you too for your time

bbfever:



To each his own knowledge and experience but there Is a key who opens my door and determines the experiences of each entrant due to varied backgrounds and that key is Jesus.

I understand your struggle as u attempt to make sense of it all because I was once like that with a messed up perception as well so your comments are not peculiar to you but it took grace through faith in Jesus to clear away every confusion much like you are still in now and which the OP has also been loosed from.

Debates would not help you. Rather a conscious decision to give God a try would. Blocking him out completely would keep leaving you in this quagmire of confusion but openmindedness in Him is the first step in the right direction.

Nah you weren't once like me, I was once like you
I was a devout spiritual Christian for 5 years. I did everything you did from speaking in tongues to prayer to receiving ministrations to communing with the holy spirit. I evangelized, gave to the body of Christ, studied the word of god, received rhema, praised god and felt the so called power of the spirit .

I had all those doubts since. But I did what you are doing now which is rationalizing and creating a locked room in my mind. I shunned the doubts and even prayed to god to help me with those doubts and confusion. I succeeded for a while with that.

But it got to a point that I accepted the fact that god and the bible must be truth and truth is strong enough to fight for itself . You don't need to run away from arguments if you believe the truth, arguments would melt away when nearing the truth like objects melt when close to our sun. If it is of god then logic must foll9w through.

By the way we believe that the spiritual controls the physical, so even if the spiritual doesn't make sense for a while the effect of the spiritual will eventually affect the physical. That's why I asked for the result of your higher perception.

I opened my mind to all view points and analysed them, it sure took a while but the truth came out. And that truth is that Christianity is purely man made. The doctrines, the scriptures and even the stories. But you might wonder where do the spiritual experiences come from. They are totally psychological, some aspects are understandable like glossolalia[ speaking in tongues] to visions but some are hard to explain. But just because we have some mysterious spiritual experiences doesn't absolve the fact that the so called word of god is a walking contradiction in every aspect. We might not understand deep emotional or spiritual experiences but the Christian world view can't explain it because it is built on fables, mythology and history.

If you talk about a conscious decision to give god a try, the question I would ask is , Which God?

When you ask that question , you will be left with no option than to scrutinize all religious claims, how do you even decide the Christian denomination you should belong to? You must assess it. When you go through a real honest assessment of your beliefs and why you believe what you believe then you will be inching closer to the truth.

So no need to claim you have a higher perception cause if I can't see the effects of the higher perception then it is nothing but empty rhetoric.

bbfever:



I spoke few words to bennyanne and because we share the same spirit and field of view he understood it in a heartbeat. Your lenghty words all targeted towards grasping a faint understanding of the very words bennyanne understood further goes to buttress my point that your perception is lower and different from mine.

Just like I told bennyanne you now want me to explain this from my perception which you can never have nor can you understand without knowing who I know and what I know so guess what...I do not think I wish to bother with an explanation to you.

If you can know the colour, kinds of furniture and details inside a locked house while standing outside then we can talk. I am inside that locked house and until you can find the key to open the door and come inside then this convo is useless.

Thanks for your request but I humbly decline

Locked house, hahaha

If I was to tell you that I was feeling what you were saying and how right and spiritual you were and how useless and blind this freethinkers are then I am sure you could have seen me as someone inside that locked house.

I have an announcement for you. That secret locked house you are taking about is just one of them. Muslims have a locked room themselves and you can't enter , Buddhists have that locked room too and you can't enter, Hindus reside in their own locked room and you can't enter. In short every spiritual or mystic belief system has that room too and no one outside knows what's in.

In their rooms they are always right. I wonder how one event can have so many truths to it. You and them can keep your subjective truths .

But when you want to ascertain real truth, you will come out of your shells and lay your evidence and facts for scrutiny but till then let's just enjoy our locked cozy rooms where we are always right and our perception is higher than others.

I wonder what you will do when you want to purchase something and you ask to see a sample and the seller gives you the locked room treatment but request your money first. I really wonder

bbfever:



Blessed are they who though have not seen..yet believe.

Faith is the substance of things hoped for the evidence of things not seen.

Thid is why we are so different from Atheists. Our perceptions differ.

Theists have a higher perception while Atheists have a lower one but assume they have the higher one through logic.

What's the proof of a higher perception? Remember the African proverb that says that what an old man sees sitting down a young guy can't see standing up.

You know the real effect of the wiser man's perception, he can predict things to come and steer clear of trouble and lead a more productive life.

Please theist with a higher perception, can you please show me the effect of your higher perception. I don't mean for you specifically but for theists as a whole.
I don't mean claiming a spiritual insight that you feel atheists don't have cos I can even do that. I mean showing how the theist life differs because of a higher perception.

An eagle has the best eyesight possible in nature and we can see the effect of that when it hunts for prey.

Is there any result or effect of the so called higher perception of theists. Please explain if the effect is financial, emotional, social or political. Please don't tell me the result can't be perceived naturally and the reason why we can't see the result is because we have a lower perception. Perception leads to action and results. Perception might be personal but results should be observable by all.

Thank you. I am waiting for your answer.

rhektor:


Keep twist-turning

Guy I don't have your time.

Go and face people that can manage your normal Christian hypocrisy

rhektor:


You quoted me I did the same for you what is wrong in that? How does my statement above affect Christian? You just said that Atheism has solved problems of the world through science as if Atheism is the basis of science. Mr man you need to grow up

Can't you read and comprehend. Where did I say that atheism solved the problems of the world through science. Read my write up again.

I said atheism is a by product of deep philosophy and scientific thinking. Science and philosophy leads the way and atheism is a natural by product of those things.

What is hard to understand in what I wrote. I also said it that atheism major contribution is freeing the mind from religious bondage. Didn't I also tell you that atheism is not a united institution dedicated to problem solving but a condition that is a by product of critical thinking, philosophy and scientific method.

In the last thread you warned me not to quote you again and now you are here doing what Christians do normally, which is say one thing on Sunday and act differently throughout the week.

And asking how your statement affects Christians, any rational person reading this will see that your responses are short and you purposely avoid critical issues, you deflect at will, you misconstrue my statements when they are open for one to understand, you are generally painting a picture of Christians not being very smart and intellectually honest.

And to answer you for the umpteenth time. Science and it's application solves global problems better than religion ever will. Atheism is a by product of philosophy, critical thinking and the scientific method. Atheism is not science , atheism is a by product. Just like you are not your child but your child is your product.
That's not too hard to understand

For the Christians every thing is satanic

Harry potter is satanic

Lord of the rings is satanic

Ben10 is satanic

Michael Jackson is satanic

Coming to their midst we also have

Jehovah witnesses are satanic

Catholics are idol worshippers

Pentecostals are following false prophets

Jews are used by the devil against Christ

Lets get out of their midst now

Yoga is of the devil

Hinduism is demonic in a yuucky type of way. They even worship cows.

Islam is devilish and Allah is the Arab moon god used by the devil to deceive people.

Atheism is an end time devilish ploy to take people to hell.

This is just a glimpse of how intolerant and close minded the average Christian's mind is. a religion that turns a wide road into a highwire act. They can be free to think but their religion makes them feel the only right path to take is a tiny tiny path and they have to carefully move on it cause every other thing around it is of the devil.

rhektor:



In your own world and word Atheism is science? Ok, now I know how gullible you are

Guy you are embarrassing your fellow Christians. You are helping strengthen the stereotype that Christians are stupid, ignorant, close minded and willfully ignorant.

Please kindly quote any part of my write up where I said atheism is equal to science. Please show me and I will show you that you have comprehension issues.

I thought you said I shouldn't quote you in the last thread but here you are running around quoting me when I didn't invite you. Well you are a Christian so I am not surprised.

rhektor:



The Malaysian MH370 is not the problem of the Christians, wait o did Christians plunge it into the sea? So why should it be our headache? Why? Whao you accept there are atheists but they don't offer to help to solve any problem in the world? Then of what use is Atheism? It is seem to me that it is more stupid to be an atheist, of what use is it then? Atheistsm has never been used to solve any problem in the world either in the past present or future. Chibok girls? How has not believing in God solve that?

The Malaysian aircraft is not the problem of Christians right because Malaysia isn't a Christian country. How have Christians in Christian countries stopped air crashes and other disasters? Nada . No help no supernatural help, just empty rhetoric and stupidly vague prophecies that they can't even get right e.g US election result.

Lets even look at things that should be Christian concerns since saving a crashing plane is so mundane.

How about Christianity unifying and giving a wholesome united message that can save the world at least. Instead we have 30000 denominations and divisions everywhere.

Christians have never been moral examples on a personal level. There is no difference between Christians and normal people in moral behavior. Christians fight, kill, slander, defraud, launder govt funds, commit adultery, rape and do anything one can think of that is abhorrent.

With the millions of churches littered around Nigeria we still can't see the effect on moral behavior. And we supposedly have new creatures with the power to overcome vices and live good lives in our midst. New creatures my foot.

How about performing signs and wonders the way Jesus instructed you guys to do in order to make people believe. Please where are the signs and wonders and I don't mean staged miracles but spontaneous bursts of power. By the way, birds can fly anywhere and anytime, birds dont need carefully staged shows to display their flying ability, it just happens every time. Please Christians show your so called power in Christian issues since identifying a missing aircraft isn't any of your business.

As for atheism solving problems, unlike religion where people are born into religions and are indoctrinated into the rituals and rites hence a religious identity is formed. Atheism is not groomed, atheism is freedom from such dogma, rituals , baseless superstition and mythology. Atheists get to that point through different routes, some get there through science, some through exposure , some through studying their religious texts. Atheists give to society in numerous ways, but it isn't a United institution with claims of being powerful. Atheism is not meant to solve any problem. Atheism is most likely as a result of philosophy , science, advanced sociology and psychology. Atheists are solving problems but not under a United banner. Einstein's theory of relativity and quantum mechanics have given us our modern day electronics and semiconductor. Einstein was an unrepentant atheist or pantheist. He didn't solve those problems under the banner of those ideologies. His ideologies were as a result of his hard work, scientific mindset etc. Atheism is a product of critical thinking. A side product of critical thinking. Atheism major contribution should be freeing the mind from religious bondage, anxiety, guilt etc.


A religion like Christianity that claims to be endowed with the true message of god alongside his powerful holy spirit, a religion like this has knowingly or unknowingly put a burden of proof and performance on itself, so please don't shy away from that responsibility, remember that as a believer you should lay your hands on the sick and they should get well immediately. So mr Christian what are you waiting for, go to the nearest hospital and do your work.

rhektor:



How has the atheists or Atheism pin point the location of the MH370?
Why make fish of one and foul of the other?

Atheism is a lack of belief in a god based on available evidence. Atheists never promised to solve the world's problem, even science that we can rely on better than your fraudulent religion never claimed it will be able to solve all problems.
Science is still growing, geologists never claim to have all the knowledge of geology, physicists accept that there are many quantum principles they don't understand yet, no biologist claims to understand DNA totally and I can say the same for all fields of science.
Scientists strive to know more about the world and make it clear where their current knowledge ends.
That is very honorable.

But wait, we have supermen amongst us.

People that know the beginning of the universe, people that know exactly what happened then.

People that know the name of the person that created it, they even know the name of his servants Michael and Gabriel . We have people that know this mighty persons chosen people[ jews]

These people also know the son of this supreme creator and they know the exact time his son came on earth and every thing he did on earth. In short, this people know that this creator is a male hence he is called a he.
It doesn't even stop there, this people claim to have been blessed by this creator with the power of his son and they can move mountains by that power.

They can do exceedingly above all normal human beings imagine.
We actually have supermen amongst us and they number around 2 billion.

Well why didn't any of this supermen just point us in the direction of this Malaysian aircraft, we ain't asking for too much, just point is in the direction and rescue teams will rush to the location.

Just like when the centurion told jesus to give the word only and he would go pick his daughter up and do the remaining dirty job, that's all we ask .

Just a teeny tiny but of that power and we would have found the plane. We didn't even ask for resurrection of the people in the plane, we just want to know where it landed and understand how to prevent further calamities like that.

Please is that too much to ask. Out of 2 billion Christians can't we have just one person that can perform a verified supernatural feat, lets not even go to the chibok girls.

Oga Landlord you have strength to be arguing with this guy.

I gave up on him when I saw that he likened consensual sex to slave ownership.

He actually said consensual master slave relationship was okay. Abeg which time on which planet or continent has slavery ever been consensual for the slave. Who offers himself up for slavery in this world and I don't mean indentured servants.

This Christians are like cats that will never let their backs touch the ground, they will wriggle and wriggle , squirm and dodge all in a bid to avoid admitting the clear flaws in their contradictory religion.

May FSM give you strength in debating this christards.

Omooba77:
Donald Trump victory really so the existence of God. He frustrate imaginations of men and make the wise foolish.....

Why didn't any of your so called men of god predict it.
They all cheaply predicted Hillary, did god change his mind in one week.

And the useless scripture you quoted can also be applied if Hillary won. Am sure you can justify and say since god chose a woman then that means he confounds our expectations. With you Christians its a win win situation always.

@OP if I receive tangible evidence and I mean tangible evidence that yahweh is god then I have no other option but to accept his will not necessarily what xtians claim but his publicly revealed will.

What do I mean by tangible evidence. Let me give examples of what i consider to be tangible evidence.

1. A worldwide announcement and introduction of himself as god. This introduction will be verified by everyone at the same time and should happen for a considerable amount of time in a way that can't be falsified . It might be in the form of general darkness accompanied by an appearance in the sky or anywhere but everyone must see it and confirm it. Ask yourself why is it that yahweh always makes this appearance to just his prophets and yet xtians claim he loves and longs to reveal himself to humanity. Some Christians even claim that man is to filthy to be in his presence but ironically many prophets claim that god arrested them when they were sinful. The logical explanation is that those mystical experiences are subjective and purely psychological/ hallucinatory.

2. Another form of tangible evidence will involve Yahweh empowering his messengers to do his work. President buhari must not come and meet me before I believe he invited me. The presence of a presidential aide comes with power, signs and other undeniable attributes that can only originate from the president. A presidential aide can invite you with a letter with the seal of the president, if that's not enough, he can show you video proof, if that's not enough then he can convince you by showing you dignitaries like police commissioners or ministers that are also aware. So a king must not make himself available before you accept his existence and will.

Now coming to Yahweh. If he can endow his followers with unquestionable supernatural power that can't be argued then that should be sufficient evidence. The funny thing is that the new testament has at least 4 places that talk about Jesus endowing his believers with power and granting all their requests. I expect believers worldwide to go into hospitals and heal all the sick people with diseases ranging from cancer to fractures and all infections. They can also go into kitties and hospitals and raise the dead. Elijah brought down fire from heaven to prove a point to the prophets of Baal, why can't modern day Christians perform signs and wonders everyday.
Imagine how the world would be if every day and every where you see Christians miracles happen spontaneously. In acts of the apostles, people allegedly came near Peters shadow and were healed. Lets imagine that in the real world , people rushing Christians to get near their shadows to get healed. Imagine you believing in Christ and immediately you pass a place, crippled people will start walking. Pleas tell me who won't be a Christian. The ironical thing is that these things are scriptural but they never happen thereby showing that the scripture lied about it and about every other thing. Yahweh most likely doesn't exist with the proof on ground.

3. Another form of evidence would be Christians making predictions bout the future in a definite and specific way and the prediction comes to pass. Some idiotic pastors have already fooled themselves by predicting Clinton's victory and they ended up falling flat on their face. I don't know any man of god that successfully predicted Trumps victory. With the whole chibok girls saga , not one man of god could predict their location, when the Malaysian aircraft MH370 got missing not one man of god could pin point the location. But they are masters of vague prophecies that can be interpreted anyhow.

The world will never be in short supply of fools.

I can bet you that TB Joshua will have more followers and church members in 3 years time.

The man who loves his chains can never be free.

rhektor:


A liar like you Mtchewwwwwwwww

Of course I read the goddamn website. You think I have a jelly brain that once i read it I will just jump in euphoria and declare that yahweh is god.
The site focused a lot on atheism and morality, communism and mass murder etc.

If you have good points bring them on nairaland lets debate. Bring the points on the website here like I did concerning the religion and science stats. Bring the points on NL, let me tear them shred by shred. You make a claim with no fact then immediately refer me to a Christian website, do you think I have the IQ of a Christian.

I guess the owner of the site does his thinking for himself and you at the same time, later you will claim that atheists follow scientists blindly but ironically we understand scientific theories and we can defend them on NL without copy and paste or referring people to an atheistic site.

Bring your proof here lets debate or forever remain silent.


And as for your claim that I am a liar , I accept but you know who the bigger liar is, your Lord and master Yahshua the fake messiah whose bones have been destroyed by maggots since 33 ad.
Here is one of his famous lies
" verily verily I say unto you, some who are standing here will not taste death before the kingdom of god will come" Luke 21 vs 32.
Please has this kingdom come, are his disciples still alive, now tell me who is the bigger liar?

rhektor:




What is logical about you concluding without verification? I don't know who lobotomised you. How was I cornered? Like seriously you think I'm one of those you can sell your junk to? Do have a rethink visit that site and debunk everything there if you are not afraid.

Na you no wan let me rest oh. Sell junk, I don't evangelize to anyone unlike you xtian. I have visited it and it's the same ol twisted logic supported by blind faith.

rhektor:


What is neutral about your link? Tell me what is neutral? An experiment carried out by same atheists is neutral, my guy got find something done with your life. Please stop mentioning me, ok? Thank you and God bless you

Acting like the typical christian, spout some claims then get cornered then finally get annoyed when they realize that their precious belief is seen as a dirty rag amongst the sane.

Am doing something with my life, I don't have time for you its your weak arguments that I am dismantling, I didn't mention you cos I know or care about you but because your logic needs to be stripped bare and exposed for the nonsense it is.

For those willing to learn, please compare this two websites and tell me which is neutral and which has an agenda.
Rice.edu - which is the website for rice university in Houston Texas - a private research university.

Godevidence.com - which is a website created by the religious for the religious and in order to produce evidence of god.

Its as clear as day. Its like asking between arsenalfc.com and goal.com which website will be biased in favor of arsenal.

Simple logic.
Goodbye rhektor, hope to never bump into you again

hopefulLandlord:


that's the name of the one true God, The Flying Spaghetti Monster

Nawa oh. Christians don suffer.
Una no go kill person with laugh

hopefulLandlord:
LibraDeus has been impressing me

keep it up bro

may FSM continue to strengthen you

Thank you Oga Landlord.

Please what is FSM.