₦airaland Forum

lepasharon:
JackBizzle

I forgot that you don't live in our cesspit.

Hello all,

I am creating this topic for the purpose of discussing how freethinkers should conduct themselves in Nigeria and the world at large.

There is a widespread opinion that freethinkers should be undercover in Nigeria because of what Nigerians can do to you and how the society would react, I have a contrary opinion to that. I believe freethinkers should be more outspoken but not aggressive, there are exceptions to this e.g northern Nigeria.

These are my reasons below
1. You are doing a great service to the nation even though you would be vilified for it

Many religious people and church goers have serious doubts about the efficacy of their religions but they eventually find a way to shelve the doubts in a compartment of their mind, they do this because they are either uninformed or they have never met a freethinker before , if they had met one they would be know that freethinkers are people like them.

Many of them even feel crazy for feeling these doubts, they think something is wrong with them, in reality they need to see a well functioning human in society who doesn't subscribe to religious beliefs for them to know that their doubts are shared by others.

When freethinkers hide and pretend to go with the flow, you are doing a great disservice to people who actually need guidance, guidance doesn't necessarily mean you giving advice but just being visible, their brains would work everything out for them.

Sometimes people need confidence and community to be strong in their convictions. Take NL for example, as at 6 years ago, how many non religious people were on this section? But because of the confidence of some atheists, many have been set free from the shackles of religion just because they viewed religious debates. Imagine just 100,000 freethinkers in Lagos alone being outspoken, there would be a massive gradual effect.

This remains our country and if we allow small minded people to feel smart about their beliefs then we would be bringing out kids to a backward, misogynistic, bigoted country. But by being outspoken then we can soften the landing for future generations.

2. Your fear of religious people is a bit overhyped

For those living in the northern part of the country, I think your fear is justified but for those living in the liberal south and middle belt then your fear is overhyped.

Lets face it, not all Christians are like pidgin and Analice, we still have the likes of bennyann etc. I have engaged in like 3 religious debates with colleagues before, I tried to be as mild as possible, the funny thing is that those people still related with me afterwards.

Maybe it's because they had known me for a while so they just assumed I was like them. When they found out about my agnosticism, it was too late. I think a safe method would be to act as normal as possible so as not too arouse too much interest but when folks have known you well then they can know you don't belong with them.

I think we fear religious people so much, maybe because they are in the majority and for the stuff they believe, nothing is too much for them to do. I think many religious people are tolerant enough to let you be even with your atheism.

This also depends on the lifestyle you have, I believe if you have been intellectually daring enough to doubt and criticize the largest nd oldest institutions in the world then I don't think you should be insecure in relationships or even be itching to be accepted. If you are the insecure type, then make sure you pretend to be normal and religious.

We saw the thread created by someone complaining about what atheism has to offer him, am sure the dude had been ostracized by religious folks thereby making him want to belong again.

As for me, I don't need peoples acceptance especially when they are so religious. If you can let me live and breathe, that's ok by me. When you are confident, people are more drawn to you and find you more fascinating but even if people avoid you, it won't matter because based on your intellectual level, those folks would have never been interesting to you at all, so why lose sleep over a relationship that would be shallow at best.

3. My last reason and I should say the strongest is ; be outspoken for your internal freedom. We think we know ourselves so much, believe me, when you are open about your life style you actually see yourself better than ever.

When you try and mould yourself into what the society accepts, you lose a part of yourself. For me , I can't be giving excuses when people ask me why I didn't go to church on Sunday, why should I lie to a human being just to please or appear normal? Being outspoken to your family and friends also sieves fake and judgemental people away from you. Believe me when I say its better to have just 3 real friends than 40 normal acquaintances. I don't like the burden of being friendly or even pretending to be friendly with everyone, anything that even sieves or separates me from ignorant people would be appreciated.

For all these points there are exceptions which include ;
1. Don't tell any interviewer that you are an atheist or agnostic . They would see your confidence as a sign of trouble. Odds are high that the interviewer goes to one of the modern day Pentecostal churches, they would see it as a real service to their god if they deny you the job.

2. When you are dating, don't tell your partner the sum total of your religious conclusions, let him/her know the little doubts but not the sum total. People see these things as signs of how the relationship would eventually be.

3. If you are seeking a contract e.g building contract, electrical contract, ict contract etc don't expose your religious beliefs .

Please only freethinkers should comment

Cc Hahn, HopefulLandlord, SirWere, Akintom, jonbellion, Seun, lepasharon, Desepiero, johnnydon22, niflheim, dalaman

lepasharon:
Lool


Awwwww im blushing

Thank you.

Please prepare for service on sunday

oglalasioux:
I don't believe in a god that is so irrational as pushing the blame for the mistake of an adult to an innocent baby. And no I don't pay tithe to anyone. I give to people who genuinely need my help not to people who are already super rich.

The post is most likely sarcasm.
But its also possible for the average religious mind to think like that.
However you wanna take it, its damn funny

lepasharon:
Lol

Nne no dey quote me oh.
You know you are my crush on this forum and you are quoting me. How will I focus at work now till 5pm

Happy friday

NLmember:
Liberadeus,

i didnt read your long stupid essay.

You think I have time to stay online arguing with atheists?

I didnt read it and I will stick to my myopic reasoning thank you very much.

No way in hell will I ever trust an atheist.

Atheists can be moral my arse.

Rubbish. Bunch of reprobates claiming moral.

Thank you

NLmember:
Shut the fukk up and use your common sense instead of ranting emotionally.

Of course there is a tiny margin of people who can live in moral ways without the fear of god but you live in this world and you know very well that those people are nothing but a very tiny margin of the entire population.

Different social experiments have shown that the majority of humans will behave in vile disgusting ways if there is no fear of punishment. The majority will not live morally if they know they can get away with being psychopaths and inside that majority there are atheists and theists so it is very beneficial for humans to have a strong reasons to act ethically.

Your head must be so far up your arse if you believe that majority of people can simply decide to live right and treat others fairly due to innate morals and nothing more.

You didnt read nor try to understand what i wrote there.

Firstly, you have no concrete proof or study that shows that just a tiny margin of people can live morally without a fear of god. If there is such a study, please show me the link to it.

You just reason things out based on your own myopic reasoning. Please am waiting for a link that shows a study conducted on freethinkers which shows that just a tiny fraction of them can live morally without god. I can help you out by pointing real life examples, countries like Japan, sweden, denmark, china etc have a population of freethinkers that exceeds the 40% mark by a reasonable margin but am sure you wont argue with the fact that these societies are much more civil, peaceful and enjoy a far lesser crime rate all without the fear of your sky bogeyman.

Instead of you to ask the right question which is - What makes humans behave morally?

Well let me list out things that will ensure morality in human societies
1. Empathy for members of our species
2. Strong laws that enforce tangible punishment
3. Strong institutions that have grown over a period of time through trial and error
4. High level of intelligence in a population

The above mentioned factors are not made stronger by religion.

The factor you have been hammering about which is number 2 on my list( a fear of punishment) is something that freethinkers have in equal measure with religious people. The laws setup by human beings are 100 times more effective than a religious fear of god. A perfect example will be nigeria
Most people in nigeria are religious people therefore they have an excessive fear of god
Our institutions are weak and law enforcement is a joke here

Now do the little experiment of dropping your phone in the middle of ojuelegba or a bundle of money and lets see if you will see it after 20 minutes. In such a case, what caused the immoral act of theft?

Its clear that such acts will always occur where the institutions are weak no matter the strength of the religious adherence in the country. Kindly repeat the same experiment in japan and compare results.

The moment i want to do business with anyone and he tells me he is a Pastor, thats the end. You religious people are the most unstable, immoral people on the planet. Thats why where you guys dominate is always filled with immorality counter to your claims of morality.

You keep hammering on the fear of god, what if your god requires you to do something that we term objectively immoral like suicide bombing or drinking dettol?

With your logic of taking orders from any so called virtual deity that always needs a man to speak for it, imagine the disaster that has been caused because of the wrong orders coming from that deity or its servants. The funny thing is that god never speaks or appears to anyone, it has to be one of his trusted conmen.

This fact makes you people very dangerous, you guys can ;
1. Deny medicare to your sick child to show faith
2. Can shun your sick mother because you believe she is a witch
3. Can steal money and pay tithe to your church
4. can kill, steal, rape and sell girls into slavery and see it as the holy will of god
5. Conduct slave trade for a period of 5 centuries and justify it with your bible
6. Rape little boys and get away with it
7. Colonize nations under the pretext of giving them the light of the gospel

You guys can do all these and not even feel a thing in your conscience and even if you feel bad, you just have to ask for forgiveness and in 2 seconds you feel better about yourself and you dont even try to make up for your crimes. Thats why religious people are dangerous.

NLmember:
exactly

even if they claim that they are good I know they dont feel obligated to be 'moral' since they feel they have nothing to fear should they decide to lose those morals.

Guy you are just proving that your obligation to be moral is your fear of god. You are a potential sociopath, child rapist, thief and murderer save for the fear of god.

The only problem with this fear is that you religious people actually negotiate it. You think god is your father so you know or think he should understand when you succumb to those desires. You and many other religious people in nigeria think like that and thats why the country is such a morally depraved, backward, oppressive, repressive cesspit.

You think you are better than freethinkers, freethinkers who actually know why they do good, know the consequences of evil and most importantly dont get a free pass through asking for forgiveness.

You dont even understand that the desire to do good comes from an innate part of us not the fear of some god. Fear doesnt produce good results, fear doesnt stop you guys from constantly sinning and committing crimes.

Believe me, you will hardly find a freethinker who isnt more morally mature, responsible, generous than you religious folks. And i can bet that in your life you have never met or had a relationship with a freethinker thats why you can spout such ignorance cause you just project your weaknesses and your character on them.

For you, if there was no divine, powerful, cosmic hand telling you not to do something, you would be a lascivious, immoral sociopath and you think everyone is like you thats why when you hear that people dont see the divine hand you see, the first thing you think is that they must be immoral.

@OP,

The answer to your question is - i will convert all muslims to christianity.

This is why i would do that

Centuries back, christianity was similar to islam in medieval europe, violent, repressive, tyrannical and dogmatic. The europeans found secularism/rationalism in their renaissance. The religious instituions were against the renaissance but they eventually lost the battle to enlightenment. This reformed christianity greatly. The christianity that is spread across the world is a milder, rational and much more civilized religion in comparison to islam.

Because of the culture of tolerance and reason in christian dominated societies, christianity as a religion is facing huge losses to secularism in terms of numbers, in terms of theology etc. Eventually secularism will win the battle against religion in the western world, it already has the upper hand.

@OP, if those options were my last options in the world then i would definitely choose muslims becoming christians because i know christianity is slowly fading away. As for islam, the violent religion is still in its adolescence and it has so many centuries to oppress the weak in its region of the world.

If you see that as a compliment to christianity then thats your cup of tea.

BENNYANN,

I know you are an angel sent from the one true God to show people the way.

The issue is that you don't know who actually sent you.

Let Otem come and tell you the truth of your real god and maker.
Otem please you are invited

Anas09:
Don't even take Frank Seriously. He hasn't disvirgined a girl before, since he heard am celibate he has been hung up on it. I know he has been mastubating thinking about how it feels to disvirgin a girl.
Just ignore him.

Una dey Bleep up big time.

You and this your frank boyfriend. Who knows maybe one day you guys might get married. The virgin daughter of zion weds the virgin freethinker.

bennyann:
Sonofluc1fer, LiberaDeus, hopefullandlord, oga Seun please go to church today.

Ranchhoddas I sight you. Please go to church today.

It's already late oh Benny. Am at home now and I can't make it.

The way you say it as if we fear church. I no fear oh. My adopted church is running a one week program sef. I might attend this week. There are so many things to gain from church beyond the stories I no longer believe in.

Wilgrea7:


if i start now it will be as if I'm telling story..
history talks about some details in the canonical and apocryphal gospels.. reading both the canonical and apocryphal gospels... you can get some facts which are consistent.. like the divinity, and message of Jesus... you guys are ready to reject history when its against you... what exactly is your beef with the canonical and apocryphal gospels?? except you have proof that they were made up.... if not...... ..... ..... ...

Which historical book talks about some details in the gospels?

The only books that talk about some details are Christian literature with already biased authors.

There is no beef with anything. The only thing we want you to admit is that you depend on the bible for truth and not some imaginary character of Jesus. The bible contains the character you adore.

So don't claim you hate the seed and love the Orange because the orange comes from the seed.

Wilgrea7:
what do you think?? read the texts and tell me please.. lemme give u a few

*gosoel of Nicodemus
*gospel of truth
*gospel of Thomas
*gospel of Philip
*Sophia of Jesus

Very funny of you.

You are right that the above books didn't finally enter the Christian canon but the fact remains that at some time they were considered scriptures by some churches in the Roman world at that time.

But can you honestly compare a religious book to objective neutral literature
If you want to base your knowledge on apocryphal scripture then fine that's up to you.

Wilgrea7:
different texts bro... the bible made me think God can be comprehended... i got some info from some books not added in the bible... although i still got info from the bible but the website was unable to refute the info i got

You are very funny if you say you base your faith on the life style of Jesus but not on the bible.

That's like saying I believe in the existence of Harry potter but I doubt JK Rowling. Jk Rowling created harry potter the same way the bible created the character of Jesus.

Let me tell you that outside the bible there aren't more than 4sentences in total in all of literature since the era of Christ that describes Jesus without using biblical references.

The only writers to mention Jesus outside the bible are Tacitus, Josephus and Suetonius and none of them were contemporaries of Jesus, in all these 3 writers don't have more than 4sentences talking about Jesus. Am wondering what you learnt about Jesus from those 4 sentences.

All the millions of literary works about Jesus all use the bible as their one and only reference.

So how do you come to the conclusion that the bible is imperfect but a particular story about a man in the bible must be perfect and worthy of emulation. Even the story of Jesus has so many contradictions in it, issues like resurrection, virgin birth and even crucifixion have so many contradictions in the gospel.

Am sorry Mr man, no need to be half smart and half believing, choose one side.
Maybe you see Jesus every day and discuss with him over breakfast, if that is the case then we might need small proof.

emmanuel596:
I want to say something about the spirituality debate. You don't believe in God? That's ok, but why is it so important for many of you to mock those of us that do? If we're wrong, what have we lost when we die? Nothing! How does our faith in Jesus Christ bring you any harm? You think it makes me stupid? Gullible? Ignorant? That's ok too. How does that affect you? If you're wrong your consequence is far worse. I would rather live my life believing in God and serving Him, and find out I was right, than not believe in Him and not serve Him, and find out I was wrong. Then it's too late.Ain't no shame in my game! I believe in Jesus Christ. He said deny me in front of your friends & I will deny you in front of my Father.

Why are you people so gullible. Am sure you didn't write this post yourself.

I have seen this post like 4 times on facebook. Why can't you Christians be original for once. The same way you guys can't cook up an intelligent well thought out write up is the same way 2000 year old middle eastern tribesmen will craft their own beliefs into your head and you would never question it.

This is why I feel we freethinkers should be more outspoken about our beliefs. There are so many theists with our reasoning abilities but these abilities are never tested because they never see an alternate worldview so they go on as if Christianity is the best life can offer.

For anyone who wishes to know me well. I will always state my non adherence to religion to that person even though I might be ridiculed or ostracized but I know that the greater good will be achieved. I might not announce it with a trumpet but every of my close friend or acquaintances will eventually know that am not a christian or Muslim.

Pidgin2:
You're not boring Ann rather you are interesting and intelligent

I think they aren't even giving us space to breath, they keep attacking our faith and some even go as far as insulting God without any regard for our feelings. The main thing I observe about theists on here is that they seem quite hateful of us, I don't know why? Maybe one of them might want to anwser this question "Why are you guys filled with hate? "

I also think what we need to do is to address this issue spiritually, maybe we can create a thread where we pray for the salvation of their souls?

I don't think atheists hate you at all.

I think the feeling from atheists is more of condescension and pity. In extreme cases, atheists fear theists because in this country you guys are the majority and can literally turn ones fortunes around.

Try and think of how you guys act towards freethinkers.
These are some of the attitudes theists show towards atheists.
1. You think all freethinkers are demon possessed or closet occult members. A Christian once told me that all atheists are closet Satanists. That's not very complimentary.

2. Some theists think that freethinkers purposely reject god because they want to have the freedom to live a riotous life . In layman's terms, you might think I know that god is real but I purposely reject him because I want to lie, steal, kill, Bleep etc without a burden on my conscience. That's also not very respectful and complimentary.

3. Some theists think that we are genuinely deceived by the devil in this last days. In other words, you guys think we are not so smart that's why we were deceived and somehow by some twist of fate, your country, your tribe, your region, your religion and other factors just happened to give you the best and perfect truth about god and the universe.

The funny thing is that all other people in different continents believe the same thing.
We freethinkers are much more humble to accept that our parents and culture could be wrong so we look for truth with a universal tool that everyone has which is reason.

In summary, you theists are blind to the fact that you guys exhibit many negative qualities to unbelievers but I understand that you think you are doing it for a good reason. I was once like that and I understand what it feels like, as a theist you must exhibit annoying traits that will put people off but you will most likely be oblivious to it because your mind is focused on things that you think are of eternal importance.

bennyann:
Just sent you a pm

Confirmed. I have replied

bennyann:
I've replied you.

Seriously? 9-5? What do you mean by that? Do you mean you hum or sing from 9f-5? come and explain oo

Replied?
I didn't see anything oh. Maybe you should do it again

bennyann:
I've replied you.

Seriously? 9-5? What do you mean by that? Do you mean you hum or sing from 9-5? come and explain oo

I mean I work at a corporate job in Lagos

A skilled SharePoint developer is needed in a popular multinational company on contract.

Please those capable and interested should send their cv to the following email. Ned419@gmail.com.

Please note that the interview is Friday 6th of January 2017.

A skilled SharePoint developer is needed in a popular multinational company on contract.

Please those capable and interested should send their cv to the following email. Ned419@gmail.com.

Please note that the interview is Friday 6th of January 2017.

Now the above post was just for Bennyann.

As for the NL theists , I wouldn't like to know or meet them.
The likes of 4evergod can kill you for religion. If he is the same person as damogul then he might pastor a little ministry already, he has that domineering manipulative personality that most shepherds or Christian flock possess.

I believe KingEbuka is not a real or serious Christian. I doubt if he would be interested in church things. His arguments are mostly philosophical and I sense that he lacks the Pentecostal fervor, he might be orthodox or just a typical passive Christian. Ebuka might be more humane and engaging and more earthly minded than heavenly obsessed.

The rest male theist monikers would be so boring in real life and are most likely miracle seeking Pentecostals that might be members of RCCG, winners chapel etc.

Hello Bennyann,

I find it interesting that you want to know who I am or what am like. I will send you a pm that's if you bother to reply oh.

To summarize myself for anyone. I am a normal Nigerian that you might have passed in the streets of Lagos or Abuja and even port harcourt. I have lived in those places in the past 10 years and am currently in Lagos. Am a young man just a bit below 30 and single and am into web development even though am a 9 to 5 crooner. That's too much now.

4everGod:
First of all you do not believe in Heaven then you go ahead to give me a tirade on how i may not be a candidate of heaven simply because you say so.

I am already in Heaven my little man. My heaven began here on earth the moment i yielded my will and my life to Jesus. Stick to your worldview which is clearly that of someone born to die here and become plant food.

Clap for yourself. I hope it makes you feel better cause its so easy to gain joy from a delusion that can be so easily crafted.

4everGod:
Yet you used heaven to address me since you felt i insulted you. Isnt life ironic

Anyway whatever rocks your boat.....Enjoy your life

I used heaven because somehow you don't think of the fact that if heaven is real you are clearly not making heaven. You have the belief and motivation to make heaven but you act like any other human being that lacks it. Whatever rocks your own boat.

hahn:
My favorite was one day like that when I was at a bar and one dude was criticizing a catholic priest, or something, because the guy was honoring the tradition of his forefathers on a tv show. The man and his wife opened a kind of museum in somewhere in the east.

And I said, "is it not better he honors our instead of the one introduced to us by our colonial slave masters?" which led to a discussion on religion and all that.

Then he asked, "do you read a lot", to which I replied, "yes". And he cautioned me saying,"stop that because ignorance is bliss".

*Dead silence*



As an atheist, what is the funniest defense a Christian or theist has put up against their beliefs here on nairaland or offline?

cc: johnydon22, plaetton, benzics, jonbellion, mrmrmister, sonofluc1fer kevoh opefulLandlord CAPSLOCKED, HardMirror Dekatron UncleSnr donnffd CltrAltDelicious Shollyps, dalaman Teempakguy Seun menesheh and all other unbelievers of ancient fairy tales

Typical one I get is

" lets just live our lives but when we die we will know who is right and by that time it will be late"

Christians saying stupid things to defend their faith is commonplace for me.

4everGod:
When i called you little man did you consider that an insult?

If you did then sorry for you! Or is it the part where i said you need deliverance that irks you? Again sorry for you.

If you had watched the historical documentary i recommended for you yesterday you would have seen how credible Historians from various countries and with amazing academic qualifications took on a step by step look at what you call Bible contradictions and how they used Archaeology, History, Community, Traditions and Ancient Israel beliefs and Gods word to prove the Bible is not contradictory.

They are on cable and being viewed by millions last night of which i was in the number and you are on NL fuming contradiction everywhere!

Who you affect? Who you epp?

By the way Liberadeus do you believe Heaven exists?

I don't believe your bible is the written or inspired word of god so I don't believe in the biblical concepts of heaven and hell.
I know some of the historical claims in the bible and places are real but that's just it.

4everGod:
Little man you are not a Christian so you lack the wherewithal to even come close to understanding the scriptures. You all wish that the scriptures were contradictory but they are not. The very scripture you are so fixated on is what i have broken down and reassembled and shown you how clear it is based on the order with which Jesus spoke when he first said AS MY FATHER SENT ME SO SEND I YOU.

If you and your ilk fail to see the truth right in front of you then all of you should take numbers for deliverance one by one. So what number do you wish to take? 2 or 7?

Well if you don't show your ungodly unchristlike behaviour then you haven't started, you must just insult someone to get your point across. Someone like you feels so assured of making heaven with your attitude. I just laugh.

As for the bible not being contradictory, I don't even have to get to Genesis chapter 3 to notice that there are 2 different creation stories. There are over 1000 contradictions in your little holy book.

But you can convince yourself that its perfect that's your choice.

4everGod:
FOR THE THIRD TIME, THREAD CLOSED!

Stop fooling yourself , your thread was never closed.

This is a clear case of contradiction in the bible.
The writer of acts of the apostles is the same writer of the gospel of Luke.
The Johannine gospel was a later addition by the end of the 1st century AD that's why many church fathers had issues with it.

What you are saying from a Christian perspective and even from a logical perspective makes sense , your god should forgive first before man can confirm, its clear that it makes sense .

But the also clear fact is staring you in the face that another gospel contradicting the synoptic gospels was created and was widely accepted. In the gospel of John it was clearly stated that if you withhold forgiveness it is withheld and if you forgive it is forgiven. This is a clear contradiction to what Christian theology taught.


Can't you Christians open your eyes and see that this contradiction negates the fact that the writing and compilation of your holy book shows that it isn't perfect in any way and can never be the word of any god.