₦airaland Forum

The guy is worshipped by many Nigerians


But the smart ones know that he is a fraud

okeyxyz: Really And i'm supposed to be the ignorant one in this debate.

Wow....how foolish can you be? Do you have any muslim friend or have you ever read anything about islam?

Yo dot know something and you call me ignorant?


Read about Arabic and the Quran

okeyxyz: Mehn, you are causing me laughter in swahili
So if you have observed, tested & recorded the results of a phenomenon, does that mean you created the phenomenon?? What you have is simply a documentation of your observations, just like christians have their bible & moslems their koran, you have not created the subject. science is a discipline that documents nature, it dosen't create nature. simples!

The discipline of science is man made. The phenomenom it studies is a different matter. I wonder how yu cant make a simple distinction.

medicine- man made
human beings/patient- not man made

okeyxyz: There was no need to comment on your points about clothes because you just made no points, you just wrote some obvious sentences with no particular insight the warrants attention.
In case you don't know, everything has an origin, Hence it spreads and evolves. why do you make an exception with religion? So christianity originated in isreal and they were called "god's chosen", so what? I'm a christian and that makes me entitled to christian benefits.

Does that expalin why God could not appear to everyone at the same time in those days? Zeus appeared to greeks,Yaweh to isrealites. Different gods same story

okeyxyz: Please tell me, how is religion not a discipline?? When a man determines to believe in a particular god & subjects himself to it's doctrines, he fasts, he abstains from sex, alcohol, meat, etc all for his god, he meditates, says mandatory prayers 5-times a day, how is that not a discipline Or maybe you don't know the meaning of discipline??

What makes you think religious people don't question the authority of whatever god they worship?? Are they not adults? Do they not have minds to think? Have they not asked themselves questions regarding the essence of life that is now and the life that is to come? Have they not decided that the religion of their choice is the one that best answers these questions and have therefore either continued with the religion of their birth or switched to another, or even refused religion for that matter? I'm wary of people like you who condemn others because their outlook on life is not the same as yours.

As regards other disciplines that are "man made", tell me: is it man made that 1+1 =2? is it man made that light travels at 299792458 m/s? is it man made how the biological systems in your body functions? So because people of a particular discipline have come together to form a body of doctors, accountants, bankers, scientists, etc, does that mean their knowledge is man made? no, their associations are man made but not the knowledge. knowledge is discovered. Just like catholic, anglican, christ-embassy, redeemed are man-made institutions, but their knowledge is discovered.

You have nothing to argue here....discipline is different from religion. You can keep deviating but religion is a cruel slave master. Only a fool will say that the discipline of medicine can be related to a slave master like how christianity asks you to submit

As for your ignorance about what I mean when I say disciplines are man made, you make me laugh. Science is man made. Science is observation, testing and results. That is man made. The scientific data or subject might not be man made eg rocks, trees, time.

okeyxyz: So, if slaves "built america's economy" like you say, is it not true that they built according to specifications designed & instructed by their masters? So who owns a property then? is it not the man who designed, instructed and paid for it rather than the labourer? Do you not know anything about property rights?
Okay, if you say no country has exclusive rights or claims to technology, does that not apply to religion too? Has religions not evolved differently in different societies then? christianity for example is practiced differently in nigeria as compared to UK, or Brazil, or Somalia, etc

This is why i say your points are very weak. You want to single out certain "negative" characteristics & ascribe them to religion but fail to recognize(or you are incapable of recognizing) that these attributes are universal amongst every sphere of life.

I'm not surprised you ignored my first point about clothes but hooked unto to the slavery and technology point. Technology is global, your religion is not.

-Isrealites are God's chosen people in christianity and judaism- racism and dvision while evolution applies to all humans.
-The Quran can only fuly be understood in Arabic

LMAO....Front page for the lolz!!!!

okeyxyz: @logicbwoy,
This is logic gone astray, your points are not strong in anyway, they easily evaporate when challenged slightly. The arguments you make above are an attempt to paint religious devotion as a negative influence, but somehow you forget to (or perhaps you are not smart enough) acknowledge that in-fact every discipline is this way exactly. You are a slave to any system that you practice. whether you are a lawyer, doctor, banker, etc. You can only see things "authoritatively" from the point of view of your particular discipline, thus religion is no exception. simples!! or do you go to a lawyer when you are sick, instead of the doctor, and vice-versa?

You're a slave. You are the one with foolish arguments. You are foolish to compare a religion to a discipline. Your religion just like the other Abrahamic religion asks for submission to an invisible master with no question of his authorities. Other disciplines accept that they are man made and thier decisions can be appealed.

A doctor or accountant will never tell you that their profession is the only way or the truth to live one's life.

okeyxyz: @logicbwoy,
You argue that we have adopted the white man's religion, but i do not hear you say that we have adopted the white man's technology too. The computer with which you "intelligently" typed out your essay, is it indigenous to your people? your cell phone, internet, satelite tv?? hell!! even the clothes you were, is it the type that your people invented

If you wanna make arguments that is respectable and worth any reference, then please put some serious efforts into it & come up with sound, logical and consistent analogy, cos what you have above is absolute rubbish thinking (no offence).

Like a slave, you insult your own people in order to defend your master.

- Some of the designer clothes I wear are probably made in Taiwan, thailand China or Morocco. My native clothes are made in Nigeria. But like a slave, you want to praise your master for something he did not do.

-Technology. I use a Windows 7 computer. Computer is made from Japan and the OS in America. Before you go crediting America, realise that slaves built that economy that enabled Bill Gates to build windows.

Furthermore, technology is something that no country has exclusive rights to; different people contribute to different parts and types of technology.

Yes oooo!


They were overconfident before. They thought that they could come here and preach from a pulpit without quetion like they do in Naija. Sorry bros, but this aint TB Joshua's or Pastor chris's church. They have been debated and debunked so many times that many of them are scared of falling from their faith.


Spineless cowards!

ijawkid: WHICH ROCK ARE U TALKING ABOUT??

Rock of ages?



Shut up and answer d question!

vedaxcool: Lol

Pls stop insulting my brother lagosshia, we can help him by encouraging him to be truthful, not shilling him for iran! Whatever that means.

It means that he is an agent for Iran/Shia recruiters but he is acting like a moderate muslim.


I am very clear in my agenda. I want religion to reduce in Nigeria. I am an atheist and I debunk religious threads. Very clean and clear.


LagosShia thinks that we all are stupid and he comes playing the victim that Shia muslims are always oppressed and the Wahabbis/Sunnis/West are to blame for everything bad in Islam. He is an agent for a Shia agency, probabl based in Iran. Nobody is buying his victim act!


The sooner you muslim guys tell him, the sooner he will stop this act!

Orikinla: A racist Baptist church in Alabama, U.S.A has refused to wed a black couple according to the report on the Huffington Post on http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/27/wedding-banned_n_1711201.html.

I am not surprised.

vedaxcool: ^

Everybody is beginning to see u as a liar and hypocrite, u are not helping the course shia by this behavior!

@tirabu

While it is true that certain Islamic countries make apostacy laws etc, the position of the Qur'an is clear that is there is no compulsion in religion for truth standout manifest from error.

Secondly the prophet pbuh said actions shall be judge according to intention, hence for one to intend that he no longer wants to be muslim he automatically becomes a non - muslim hence threats can only change the outta belief but the intention remains apostate making the individual an apostate. So to me it makes no sense to compel somebody to remain muslim, such behavior is counter productive as the individual can easily be recruited by anti - state establishment! One thing u should know is that christians, jews etc have always been part of the muslim society and the practice of preventing change of religion is really not Islamic unless there is really a genuine reason like when someone has treasonous intent etc, but u cannot force someone to believe that is common sense!

I have always said it that ayone with commonsense can see the shilling for Iran that LagosShia is doing. LagosSia is quite a disgrace to Shia muslims. Iranians dont lie like this!

musKeeto: Why did this remind me of tbaba?

Tbaba and his quranic miracles!

hadbak: I dnt rily enjoy typin tis is y I'm directn u n besides its beta 4 u. Dnt knw d bible completely so i dnt knw if women av right of inheritanc acordin 2 d bible. Plus av come acros life videos whr xtian scholers tesstify 2 d fact dt d bible is unreliable.

Yes the bible is unreliable

tomnmenace: Just passing by

No comments!

stupid arszholes!

Dont let the door hit you, azzhole

ijawkid: WE WERE NOT DEBUNKED....U GUYS HAVE INSULTED OUR GOD(YAHWEH) WHICH OFCUS GETS US ANNOYED.....


BUT U GUYS HAVENT REALLY DEBUNKED COMPLETELY IF THERE IS A CREATOR.....

Hey, can God create a rock that he can not move?

cyrexx: “We are our beliefs,” it is said. Beliefs steer people in life. Some beliefs are harmless, some are the motive force for good, and yet others are delusional, misguided, and even outright dangerous. Every version of the belief called “Islam” ranges from the delusional to the dangerous.

Islam is a Grand Delusion, birthed by Muhammad’s hallucination that he relayed to his first wife and employer, Khadija. Greatly frightened, he told Khadija that he was visited by jinn (devil) in the Hira cave. Khadija comforted the distraught man by assuring him that the episode was Allah’s way of choosing him as his messenger. Muhammad believed his rich wife-employer who was 15 years his senior and the delusion became a belief—Islam.

http://www.familysecuritymatters.org/publications/id.9076/pub_detail.asp

Delusions of grandeur

Sweetnecta: Does a muslim need any other book, to be a muslim, considering that authentic Hadiths are explanation [professors or tutors explain materials in University Textbooks; same thing] of verses in the Quran? Hardly because The Word of Allah is Complete and He provided for mankind the best for last in the chain of prophet-hood [sa].

If you do not read, speak, write Arabic and you are not a follow of Abrahamaic [on abramaic sign, we circumcise, and hajj is ordained in Surah Baqarah and there is a chapter called Hajj] in the footsteps of Muhammad [sa], how can you make any bold claim against Islam when I can't make any bold claim against the tradition of Indigbo, even though I am married to an igbo person? You have to live and breathe Islam to know if the Quran can stand on its own merit.

Stories are told in the Quran in pure arabic language, so much superior that the arab poets can not find fault in the Quranic language and the pagan leaders used to sneak at night to listen to recitation from the prophet during his night time prayers and recitations.

Women were liberated, honored so much that they have the same religious obligations as the men and can now own properties and dispute about anything man can dispute about, including the freedom to divorce and not be forced to marry who she does not want. And my share in my father's property has not been touched by me because I don't need it. It is left for my female siblings and I am willing to support them as long as we are alive, regardless of their wealth. And if i die before those I am older than, some portion of my wealth belongs to these women, including any legacy that is outstanding.

Bilal ibn Rabah [ra] was paid for so that he could be free. So was Salman Al Farisi [ra] that the jews deceitfully forced into slavery.

Can anyone show me a verse that is copied from the Torah, Sabur and or Injil? Such a verse must be inferior and at best equal in meaning to what it is copied from, the original. If what you think is copied is however better in meaning that what you think is the original, then it couldn't have been copied and if any says Muhammad[as] was the author, then you have in him a blessed genius who singly better all the saints who composed the Bible including I might add the support of the holy spirit which is full God in Trinity.

Hey, are you not ashamed of yourself? Why should I learn Arabic? I'm already speaking 3 languages. Why not promote your own language?

And as for yur blabbing, please try to directly address the claims

hadbak: We are intelligent n diplomatic people n I sugest we shld act as one. Firstly I dnt lyk people who talk IGNORANTLY or people who hav prejudiced minds. D Quran is indeed a miracle,inimitable n unparalleled.no other literary work can stand to its height from d standpoint of beauty of diction,lucidity,divine teachings n elegance of xpresion. My friend get a learned muslim 2 put u tru to undersstandin tis steps u mentioned cus its obvious u lack complete understand of dem. U can also meet wit some islamic scholars on www.askthesheikh.com 4 clarificatn.piss

Address the topic.

Stop directing people your imams and clerics

Chanchit: This one na big AWUSU OOO...! In short na Awusubilahi, abeg make i go chop fast breaking food in solidarity with my muslim neighbors ... Bt make i talk truth, na Captain Muhammed sidon write that book, taking small small somthing something frm here and there... *make i go chop first* to b continued....

LMAO...hahahaha

Billyonaire: Okay literary speaking. But you just alerted me you do not believe in existence of spirits. There are spirits, in fact everywhere... You can see them if you wanna...

I see spirits of course......only when i'm high

Billyonaire: God was never alive and is never dead, in your earthly context. To say God is officially dead means the writer does not understand the concept of cosmology; Is spirit alive or death ? Should you need more details about existence on the wheel of 84, do let me know, I am on standby.

Erm, you heard of metaphorical and literal? When I say God is dead, it mean that he is no more on people's minds.


There is no evidence for the supernatural. I dont believe in spirits

toba: debunked by who?

By atheists?

toba: its still doesnt justify ur comparison young man

It does

Delafruita: muhammad was a good guy.a good scholar.unfortunately,delusions of grandeur overwhelmed him and the next thing you know,he's receiving signal from heaven via radio gabriel 102.5fm.

He was probably epileptic too

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zgf-Bjzafpc

toba: dnt get confused. they are exhibiting their God obsession. Some of them may die if they dnt discuss God every other day under faceless identities.

It must be quite painful when your god is debunked left and right eh?

toba: u see? ur childishness and stupidity knows no bound. if it were to be a religious gathering last night, why werent the bishop, pastor or Imam invited to render series of prayers to confirm that it was a religious gathering, to justify ur illogical comparison?

*were*



Reread my comment and see where the above verb was used?

Ishilove: You don't wanna know, believe me.

They are as mad as hatters in this section

How christian of you to call me mad.

Muslims claim that the Quran itself is a miracle and it the word of God/Allah. Here are 5 easy steps to debunk such claims in a debate;




1) incompleteness of the Quran;
Unlike the bible, the Quran can not stand alone as a book for many muslims. This debunks millions upon millions upon muslims. If the Quran is complete why do they need other books like the Hadith? There is no mention of circumcision in the Quran nor is there mention of Hajj (pilgrimage) and so many other practices.

However, there are Quranists that rely on the Quran alone. However, they are minorities in the Islamic world. However, we can still debunk the Quranists with the fact that the Quran does not have a complete record of Muhammads life. Many aspects of Muhammad's life are in the Hadith and are not in the Quran. Furthermore,
there is no punishment or condemnation of slavery as the most evil thing in the Quran.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quranism

However, we can put the final nail in the coffin on this issue with the "modern lawyer" argument. The Quran is also a book of law. Any lawyer today will tell you that laws need to be updated and changed due to many advancements of humanity and society. For instance, laws regarding the internet changed to apply libel and slander to facebook and twitter comments. Can the Quran legislate on videogames?Is it wrong for my videogame character to eat pork in a videogame? Is it as sin to open a facebook profile for the prophet Muhammad? If the Quran is complete, why can it not legislate on the internet? Why can it not legislate stem cell research?



2) The Epic Fail of the Arabic Language;
Any muslim will tell you that you need to understand Arabic to fully understand the Quran. The Quran is originally written in Arabic.http://islam.about.com/od/arabiclanguage/a/arabic.htm

Unfortunately, many people do not see the epic fails in the above statement. I will list them out;

-Abraham and Moses did not speak Arabic, neither did Jesus (assuming they all existed). Many prophets before Muhammad did not speak this language
-Shouldnt God exist in more than one language?
-Comparing the bible, the bible's message can be fully understood in any language, even in my rarely spoken Nigerian language
-Shouldnt God/Allah make his message easily translatable from one language to the other rather than forcing Nigerians to learn Hausa, English and then Arabic?
-Why should God even choose Arabic? It is not the most popular, the oldest nor the most advanced language in the world.
-Can an illiterate read Arabic or any other language? So illiterates are not "real" muslims.



3) Slavery accepted by the Quran
Slavery was common during Muhammad's time. There is no outright condemnation of slavery in the Quran. Now, the Islamists will argue that Muhammad freed slaves and there is reward for masters freeing slaves. The problem with that argument is that for masters to free slaves, they had to have slaves in the first place---this therefore shows that slavery is accepted.

Furthermore, there is no punishment for slavery in the Quran. There is punishment for adultery and punishment for lewdness. But no punishment for slavery in the Quran. http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/says_about/crime.html



4) Unfair treatment of women;
I always laugh at Islamists when they say that the Quran supports women's rights. How ironic.

The truth remains that the quran explicitly states that son inherits twice that of the daughter.

Surah 14;11
Allah instructs you concerning your children: for the male, what is equal to the share of two females. But if there are [only] daughters, two or more, for them is two thirds of one's estate. And if there is only one, for her is half. And for one's parents, to each one of them is a sixth of his estate if he left children. But if he had no children and the parents [alone] inherit from him, then for his mother is one third. And if he had brothers [or sisters], for his mother is a sixth, after any bequest he [may have] made or debt. Your parents or your children - you know not which of them are nearest to you in benefit. [These shares are] an obligation [imposed] by Allah . Indeed, Allah is ever Knowing and Wise.

Furthemore, Surah2;282 shows that women's testimony is half of or less than men's.

Furthermore, there is the wife beating verse that makes men the guradian of women;

Surah 4;34
Men are in charge of women by [right of] what Allah has given one over the other and what they spend [for maintenance] from their wealth. So righteous women are devoutly obedient, guarding in [the husband's] absence what Allah would have them guard. But those [wives] from whom you fear arrogance - [first] advise them; [then if they persist], forsake them in bed; and [finally], strike them. But if they obey you [once more], seek no means against them. Indeed, Allah is ever Exalted and Grand

There are 5 scholarly translations that use the word "beat/strike/hit". However, the Islamists use one translations that says "separate". The translation above is from Quran.com. One of the most popular online Quran resources.



5) Copying the bible and torah
The Quran mentions prophets that are in the bible and Torah. These prophets can not be muslims. Moses and Jesus for example, were Jews who were respectful of Jewish laws. How could they be prophets of Islam? Calling Moses a muslim means by extension that all Jews are muslims.

The Quran even sheepishly copies the story of Adam and Eve which many Jews and Christians now say is metaphorical. Copying a Jewish myth does not make the Quran a reliable book.

alexleo: Its a clear manifestation that they cant do without God just as no human can do without God.


We talk about hell because its written in God's book- the bible.

The same book that tells us to keep women silent in churches? the same book in which we learnt that Canaanite women were not originally meant to be saved by Jesus?

toba: oh sorry i just realized that the Olympics is now a religious gathering that can be compared to a church.

pathetic

lol...Why not? Olympics were a tribute to greek gods. I should have known that you were ignorant