₦airaland Forum

italo: Simply because they hate the Catholic Church, they pretend as if they themselves dont believe in things they dont understand fully. Hypocrites!

Let he who can FULLY understand God cast the first stone and explain him fully to us!

PERFECT!

striktlymi: Good evening Ube,



Now I am struggling to catch up! Why woun't you struggle to catch up.This doesn't happen to me very often! It happened to St Augustine once and he learned his lessons Now let's go back to the basics again please. God the Father is distinct from God the son and God the Holy spirit though they have the same essence, hence the notion of a 'three in one God'.

The Son prays to the Father who is distinct and he also promised the paraclete who also is distinct from the Son and the Father. These distinct persons can relate with each other without necessarily relating to themselves in the process, yet they are one. And you don't find this kinda 'foncusing'? Friend this is not MATHEMATICS



When you say creation isn't for the Father alone and compassion not just for the son, are you implying that when the Son carry out an activity, the Spirit and the Father take part in that same activity and vise versa? If this is so, can it be said that the Father cannot act without involving the Son and the Spirit? Or the Spirit cannot act without involving the Son and the Father?

so you think our little human brain can fully understand the Mystery of the TRINITY. Go on! I will see where this will take you. UBENEDICTUS has started finding elements of herery in your post. JUST CONTINUE! Maybe you will become the next Arius.

*Frosbel* sometimes I wonder if you are an AGNOSTIC. HERE you attack PROTESTANT DOCTRINE, there you attack catholics in another place you are in conflict with atheist. I is obvious that Nairaland has provided a good stage where people can hide their Identity and play MULTIPLE ROLES. NAWA FOR YOU BROS!

frosbel: There is ONLY one CHURCH and the representative of JESUS CHRIST is the HOLY SPIRIT not the POPE.

"as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. 24 Now as the church submits to Christ, " - Ephesians 5:23b - 24a

"And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Advocate, who will never leave you." - John 14:16

Three things to note :

1. The head of the church is Christ not the POPE
2. The church submits to Christ not to the POPE.
3. The Holy Spirit is present in all true believers, we do not need the POPE.

I don't know why you like diverting attentionn and thereby avoiding answering very simple questions. The three things you noted above, how does it answer the simple question he asked? Dokie asked a simple which you qouted, PLEASE ANSWER THE SIMPLE QUESTION.

deSika: i asked this quetion to clarify some points i just couldnt reconcile
1. the new testament mentions some churches but neva identifies any as roman catholic church. so how could the RCC have existed b4 them.
2. Christ is the founder and centre of christianity. even though some apostles found thier way to rome later. the bible clearly tells us that the disciples met together to pray and study scriptures after christ departure. now what else defines church but this (coming together to fellowship). since Jesus did not migrate his followers to rome its only natural that they would have held their meetings in their immediate vicinities. ie israel

so i think the problem arises when we dont clearly define what a church is. perhaps to them chuurch is just organised structure of believers having buildings. so maybe we can start from here.

what do u think church means. To me, church means an assembly or gathering of beleivers. it can be under a mango tree or in my room

YES! with PENTICOSTAL PROTESTANTS, It can JUST be ANYWHERE. Under a mango tree, in a room, preferably in a HOTEL ROOM, Yes! it can be in a WAER HOUSE, it can be in a FOOTBALL PITCH, it can be in a MOTOR PARK. It can even be in TOILET, it can be in a BEER PALOUR, it can be in a BROTEL. Infact it can just be anywhere provided they are TWO or THREE and CLAIM to have gathered IN THE NAME OF CHRIST.

striktlymi: Top of the day to you Love,

I couldn't hide a smile after reading your post...first of, it's been long I saw you around these 'paths'; hope all is well with you?

You need not worry about the 'error' of St. Augustine cause like him, I believe firmly in whatever the Church defines as dogma without doubt just as it was in the time of the apostles.

I know it would be easier to empty the ocean into a cup than to use my frail human faculty to understand the mysteries surrounding the triune God. But c'mon Love, there is no harm in having a chit-chat about some article of our faith in order to appreciate the teaching authority of the Church.

#This is just the first of a series of questions I have

OKAY.

frosbel: The Trinity is a derived doctrine which only came into existent a few hundred years after Jesus and most of the Apostles had died.

I am sure that if this was a KEY doctrine , there would have been no need to derive it by human reasoning and logic, rather it would have been clearly stated in scripture.

That a Pagan Emperor endorsed this doctrine is suspect enough not to talk of the malice, acrimony , hatred and bloodbaths , that emanated from the forceful stamping of this unlawful doctrine into LAW.

Enough said !!!

unLAWful......into LAW. Ok! *Frosbel* I just wonder what TRINITY has to do with LAW?

striktlymi: Good morning Uben,



Doesn't it confuse you? Wow!!! You would be the first I have come in contact with. When I try to apply reason and logic to the trinity from what we can observe, I come out empty. The ish would be to understand why Jesus would relate to the Father in prayer where in fact he is relating with himself. Or a situation where Jesus promises the comforter (the Holy spirit) when he has the same essence as the spirit. Why must Christ go away before the spirit come if they are indeed one and the same person?

I do believe in the trinity but we really would have a hard time cracking the mystery surrounding the trinity. I do understand that God is unfathomable. He is great beyond comparison! He can do whatever he wants, be wherever he wants, decide to be in more than 3 places at the same time and reveal himself in more than one way but the ish is still WHY??

Why would it (God transcends any s*x) decide to reveal itself in this way? Is it trying to relate it's various natures to mankind? Is it saying that the Father is the all powerful ruler and creator, the God of Justice and fairness who is at the core of the Universe' 'delicate' balance? The Son brings forth his compassion and care for all his creation, it's redemptive nature and it's longing to relate with it's creation in a more personal level in order to guide us to itself? While the spirit brings forth it's nature as teacher, the means where men get consoled and lead in gentle companionship through all ages to the Father?

Mehn, this is harder than it looks!



If God is not exactly a person but a nature, why then do we describe the trinity as "three persons in one"?


Thanks man!

LOGIC and REASON can only take the human person so far. when the evidence ends, LOVE OF TRUTH AND FAITH continues. *Strictlymi* what other explanation do you need? considering the fact that you are a catholic who belives in the MOST HOLY TRINITY. I can see you take fun in repeating the mistake of the Great Theologian "Saint Augustine of Hippo". know this brother, there are things that ara ABOVE and BEYOND human LOGIC and REASON, but that nevertheless, could be belived BECAUSE it is a "REVEALED TRUTH": The TRINITY is this kind of true teaching that comes down to us through GOD'S REVELATION and not our finding it out.

Now what is the bone of contention here?. I neve said a human being has bein cloned. If you read my comment well I said THEORITICALY a woman can be cloned from a Man and NEVER vice versa. Let me elaborate a bit. PRACTICALY, human cloning has'nt been successfuly because of malformations, irregularities and premature (mostly prenatal) deaths experienced in lower animals. Biologically(ie in Theory) Male to female cloning is possible because a man has an X-Chromosomes that can be doubled to produce a female clone. On the other hand, cloning a man from a woman is not possible "even in Theory". On the other hand Cloning requires a woman to gestate the baby. Also it is possible to clone a human being using adult cells. If genetic materials is taken from an adult cell and that genetic meterial is succesfuly placed into an egg whose own genetic material has been removed. Under the right conditions, the egg with a complete genomic material could develope into an embryo. It would divide into multiple cell and that embroy could be placed back into a uterus to develope into a fetus and ultimatly into a baby. As you can see, this does not involve Fertilisation. So I don't know what the problem really is. Maybe this is too difficult to Understand. I am so surprise that some of you who claim to know much about science don't know this. Please what's the confusion? Is it that science did'nt claim that theoriticaly, human cloning is possible? Or are you saying that a woman can be cloned from a man "AND VICE VERSA?".

Now see how this works [1]The Bible says something beyond Human Understanding. [2]It sounds silly and impossible. [3]Christians get ridiculed because they can't logicaly explain it. [4]Then Atheist uses it to win some weak arguement against God. [5]Finally, after thousands of years, science proves the Bible to be right. On many occations, atheist have claimed the Bible was wrong when it says that A Woman was created from A Man. The Holy Bible tells us in Genesis2:21-22 that God took a rib from a man and used it to Create a woman. Since the Bible is not a Design Manual(A Science Book), it did not give us the Full Details of how God did this, but no matter how the "Story" was told, the main message it is passing across is that "A Woman was Created from something that was taken from a Man". Honestly, for Centuries, not being able to explain how possible this was had made Christians look like foo.ls before atheist. They say this sounds stupid. GUESS WHAT? Recent Advancements in "Cloning" a branch of Genetic Engineering has proved that A Woman can be made from something taken from A Man, but NEVER vice versa. Let me explain this in the most simple way posible so that anybody with the basic knowledge of science can understand it. Theoriticaly, it is Very possible to clone A Woman from A Man, but it is IMPOSSIBLE to clone A Man from A Wombn. REASON: A man has XY(heterogamatic s.ex) Chromosomes while a woman has XX(homogamatic s.ex) Chromosomes. Now, by Genetical combining 2XY(heterogametic s.ex) Chromosomes of a man, it is possible to clone both s.exes ie male and female from a single man. Ie [XY*XY]={1XY(male)+2XX(female)+1YY(an imposibility)}. With this equation, it looks very simple but this involves a VERY Complex Process. On the other hand, by Geneticaly combining 2XX(homogamatic s.ex) Chromosomes from a woman, all you can get is one s.ex (only female). Ie [XX*XX]={4XX(female)]. As you can see, a woman can be gotten from a man but a man CANNEVER be gotten from a woman. Conclusively, God created a woman from a man and NOT vice versa. Moses wrote this thousands of years ago, it took science Centuries, to Mature enough to explain it. I know haven seen this some of you will start raising other issues which we can't explain now but will take science another millenium to explain. I have one Question "Woman was Created from Man" (and not the opposite) [Q.] How is it possible that Moses who wrote this thousand of years ago, could be RIGHT without the help of Science?. Do you think it is a GUESS WORK?

Dibiachukwu: The catholic church has a long history of crime against humanity. Long history of war. Long history of dictatorship. Long history of slavery. Long history colonisation. Long history of abuse of power. Long history of deceit. Long history of power scuffles. Long history of inquisition. Catholic church is a roman revision of the doctrines of CHUKWU. The catholic church is a mockery of CHUKWU. A church where half of the congregation don't understand a word from the hymns they sing everyday. A church that has stolen the heart of the sons/daughters of CHUKWU and has led them to disgraceful lust over everything that is not of CHUKWU. The catholic church and most other churches is a curse to my people. CHUKWU is angry because the his children have been taken over by many devils. CHUKWU would take back the souls of his people. I am a dibia for CHUKWU. You can call me izuchukwu.

Honestly, if not for the Humanitarian Aid the Catholic Church gave to the Igbo Race of the Biafran Nation, through Caritas International, during the most brutal time of the war, your father would'nt have lived to give birth to you.

fluid26: Matthew 16:18

''And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.''

The Pope is the Vicar of Christ. And in that context, he is deemed infallible...even in the face of glaring errors. Leave church leadership for it's appointed leaders. Don't align yourself with those who make attempt at ridiculing the church, lest you declare yourself an enemy of Christ.

I will bet my last card that you don't know anything about Papal Infallibility.

Zikkyy: You don't blame the church for that. It's like blaming ibori for the federal government's inability to bring him to justice.



it will be much easier to discuss this if a request for extradition was made and rejected by the requested state or institution.



nobody can argue against this. it will be wrong of the church to 'hide' a crime. that said, i think the discussion/argument here will be more interesting if based on facts. what i observed here is that views/opinions are driven more by emotions and less of fact.

PERFECT!

Boomark: Ok

Thats Very Good! Now answer my QUESTION.

BukkyDan: Sometimes I marvel @ the way we christians argue endlessly about who's the best between a catholic and a pentecostal. For goodness sake are we serving different god's and bearing the same name 'christians'.

Joshua 1:8 says "this book of the law shall not depart out of thy mouth but thou shalt meditate therein day and nightm that thou mayest observe to do according to ALL that was written therein...."

so Op and his debaters, read your Bible and understand. "my people die for lack of knowledge..."
eeish! Its so embarassing to think that we still can't discern between the right and the wrong.

You are serving God not man, so stop trying to please any body by your faith. If the catholics think its right to use rosary, pray to Mary, that's fine. If some churches chose to pray to their Bible, fine! What matters is that we are all going to give account before God.

I see no point arguing on this issue. Serve the Lord your God with all your heart, stop judging the way other's serve their own God! Don't be like the pharisee and the sadducee

Jude 1:6
"these are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling words, having men's persons in admiration because of advantage"

do not judge or condemn others, because you are also gonna be judged by the supreme Judge- God
Matt 7:1-6
"Judge not, that ye be not judged."

whom are we to judge what other people are going?

Oh yes! We know there are false preachers; even the Bible tells us so, but that doesn't mean we should sit back or rely on what they are preaching. That's why you have a BIBLE.
1st Timothy 4:13
"Till I come, give attendance to reading...."

hmmn, Op, I guess the reason for this thread is not to make fun of your fellow christians, if its so, please, amend your ways.
The same way you believe in your faith, so do the pentecostal.

The fact that you went into ONE church and saw them kneeling before their Bibles does not mean every Pentecostal churches do that too.
Did you go into that church to worship God or you went to see and hear what they do and say?
Hope you know the same way you were thought to say 'Hail Mary', same way they were thought to speak in tongues.
And also, the way you think praying to mary is right, so they think praying to the Bible is right.

My advice is, lets think about how we would make heaven on that day. Not just that, if you see your fellow Christian going astray, try to correct them in a more polite way, not by bashing them.

Remember God watches all we do, he hears all we say. Nobody is holy and righteous,

I can't help but imagine, what an atheist would say, when he/she clicks on your thread, or what an unbeliever would say.

Can't we see? Can't we read the hand writting on the wall that the end time is here? Its time for us to win souls for Christ not to argue whom and who is the best.

Be blessed

Honestly, I love all you have said here, many of them are true. But what I don't understand is why you never said this in the Hundreds of thread Blasphamous Protestants have created on NL to Judge us for Practicing what Gods people praticed in the Scriptures. Now that I Launched a single thread to watch Blasphamous Protestants accept biblical truths they rejected many times in the past, as you can see it happening right here, you came in as a true beliver to seprate "the fight". I just have one Question for you. Just be SINCERE to yourself. Do you think you will make the same COMMENT if this thread was created by your fellow Protestant Brother or Sister to accuse Catholics for Idolatry? HONESTLY, I don't think so.

Boomark: ^^My advice to you is whenever you see the truth, consider it carefully and follow it. We are in the vanguard of propagating the truth.

Are you asking me to learn about God and what He wants us to do from catholic when i have the bible?

If what catholics do is the opposite, the bible shows it. See a perfect analogy here: you are an engineer(Christian), am an engineer(Christian). If you engage in wrong practices(idol worship), i will go to engineering handbook(bible) and show you that it is wrong to use filing machine to file fufu.

All truth is in the bible. Better debunk the truth in my analogies cos you can't get anything about me without proving me wrong from the scriptures.

[CORRECTION NO1] All truths are not in the bible. There are many things that are true, that are not in the bible. Besides I don't take this as answer to my question. Let me repeat the question, using you perfect analogy [Q]If Protestants Christians (engineers) denies the Truth(eg g=9.8m/s), everyday and then comes out today to accept it because it will favor them, ARE THEY NOT BLASPHAMOUS HYPOCRITES(fake engineers). PLEASE answer my simple question and stop avoiding it.

MostHigh: THE WHOLE WORLD KNOWS HIS GOOD FRIEND IS A BOY LOVER

HE WAS PUT IN CHARGE OF THE COMMISSION CHARGED TO LOOK INTO THESE ALLEGATTIONS

DO YOU KNOW HOW MUCH MONEY IN PAYOFFS HAS BEEN SPENT BY THE CATHOLIC CHURCH

ITS A SHAME U R TRYING TO DISASOCIATE YOURSELF FROM THIS SIN (LIKE MOST CATHOLICS WOULD)ARE YOU ALL NOT OF ONE CLOTH ANYMORE?


PEACE LOVE AND JOY!!!

MostHigh Please don't Didn't you see the question he asked you? I was just expecting that your next reply(which I qouted here) will contain the answer, but instead you are talking of something else. Does that show you don't have an answer or are you try to divert attension?

chukwudi44: I am not fighting on behalf of the pope.It is only fair that one shpuld be held liable for his own actions and not for someone else's.The fact remains that the pope has not even been suponeated by any court for any crime hence all such write ups are just the handworks of detractors.

There merely targeting the pope because he is the head of the catholic church and as such would want to bring the church to ridicule through him.If benedict has remained cardinal ratzinger I can assure you that you would not even hear anybody mentioning his name in all this cases.The target of this detractors is the church and not Benedict.

Exactly!, that is the reason why the person who opened this thread said that now they have to start afresh to LINK UP THINGS(Crime) for the new pope yet to be elected so that they can arrest him since their plans has been trashed by Benedicts resignation.

wiegraf: Following the law of the land would usually do. The law of the land in many places is that these be reported to local authorities. They weren't. Was there a conspiracy? Did superiors aware of these crimes interfere in a way that violated the law? Did they order or encourage breaches of the local laws?

Also consider that known offenders were simply relocated to other regions by their superiors. There could be some legal issues there as well.

Outside of law, for context, consider the organization involved considers itself some sort of moral authority. They're behavior has been astronomically self serving and hypocritical. Clearly evil as far as the vast majority of moral codes are concerned. One could say they're behavior is possibly universally evil even, in this day and age.

From the posts in this thread one would think they consider themselves above the law and infallible. Here we have a group that seems to think whatever they declare as 'good' is good. If they declared hitler good it seems most of the followers would have no issues with that.

Good! But you still have not answered the question. What of places where the law of the land is to report to the police and what of the cases whereby the victims reported to the police, why haven't they arrested any priest? Or are Priest above the law of the land?

Zikkyy: i want to believe this is public knowledge since you guys know so much. The question is what is the police doing to bring the affected priests to justice. Are they waiting for the church to first report them before they act? it's not just the catholic church, most institutions will first consider the potential damage before taking any action. you will not achieve much if you are waiting for the institution to report them.



for the church to take action, somebody must have reported the case. which is easier? reporting to the police or reporting to another priest or bishop?

May God bless you for such a wonderful QUESTION. But I have repeated this question over and over again, but all they could do is to call me a Child Molester. I used to think that when someone can't answer a simple question, the best thing to do is to declear that you can't answer the question, or simply go and make some research, but on this very thread, when someone can't answer a question, the nest thing he/she does is to start abusing everybody both present and absent, so as to divert attention and make the questioner to comment more on the abuse rather than demand answeres for the questions asked. *Zikkyy* I won't be suprise if they call you a Ra.pist for asking this humble question. Could you imagine the last time they called me a Child Molester for asking a similar question and it obvious they can't answer the question.

kmcutez: You my friend are a paedophile supporting your fellow paedophiles priests. Catholic priests my foot. I'm sure one of the requirements to being a pope and a priest is the ability to be able to f.uuck little boys and male babies. Mumu catholic.

Muskeeto the modrator, will not see this one.

plaetton: Still yapping like a drunken parrot.

Are you for real?
I just can't believe you guys.
I thought religion was supposed to be about the refinement of one's soul.
How are you so soulless?
Do you really understand the issues involved in these molestation cases or you just too eager to show off your ignorance and bellicosity?
Your arguments are sooooo infantile, that I dont know whether to laugh at your ignorance or cry for your lack of empathy for the young victims of these heinous crimes.

Please read your own post again and again, and see if a little common sense may strike you, even if by accident.


Are you completely ignorant of the fact that these victims were children and adolescents?
Young Children, some of whom were in orphanages and group homes under the stewardship of these priests?
Do you understand the respect,power and awe that a priest enjoys from his parishioners, especially the young?
Do you, at all, have any understanding of the psychology and trauma of se.xual abuse by authority figures?

So, in your wicked and perverse catholic mind, you think it is the duty of the child victims of the se.xual molestation to report the matters to the police, and not bishops or church authorities?

YOU are F*****ing Stu.pi.d.
.. and probably a child molester yourself.

Thanks for Calling me a Child Molester, but yet with all this, you still have not answered my Question. As I can see you are angry with me. Sorry if my simple question makes you fell like commiting suicide. I have seen you are the type that will tear his question paper and answer script in the exam hall when he sees a question he can't answer. So let me advice you again, take a break, by the way it seems you don't like brakes. Just go somewhere and cool your temper, then come back and reread my question and provide a reasonable answer, at least for the cases that were reported to the police. Once you have done that, we will continue from there.

Boomark: ^^As a priest of God, i should not be partial. You want me to focus only on those that have dusty particles in their eyes while you Catholics have an igneous rock with molten magma in your eyes.

those people you saw might not know what they are doing. They might feel it is right. Talk to them about it or link one of them here so they can learn the truth.

This is one the thread where we studied catholic idolatry base on bible truth. It was very revealing.
https://www.nairaland.com/1087122/why-catholics-pray-rosary-bow/12[Aggressive Idolatry by catholics]

To catholics, if you feel your priest will scold you or that your parents will disown you for going to another church, try to avoid wearing those objects of worship round your neck as you pray. Avoid kneeling before images of worship as you pray. Pray to God in spirit and in truth.

The analogy between kneeling, bowing, or offering incense to the bronze serpent by Israelites and to the cross by catholics is a proof of idol worship.

Remember, the Son of man was lifted just as the bronze serpent was lifted. In 2kings 18:4, the bronze serpent became an idol. In catholic church, the cross became an idol.

I have seen where you learn the rubbish you have in your head from fellow idol worshipping protestants, on Nairaland and you claim to have studied what we practice. If you want to learn how to drive a car do you go a shoe maker?, if you want to lern how to read and write, do you go to a butcher?, if you want to know what medical doctor practice do you go to an engineer. If you want to know what catholics practice do you go to protestants? Many threads have be used in the past to accuse catholics of idol worship and we have given reasons to prove that our practices are all scriptural, mostly rooted in the Old Testament system of worship in the Temple, ordered or approve by God, but you protestants rejected them and won't agree with us. Now we have a thread that has Perfectly turned the table arround and as we demanded reasons for your practice, you started giving the exact reasons you rejected in the past. Now I have a question for you. [Q] When someone denied the truth yesterday and comes today to accept that truth because it will favor him, is that person not a BLASPHAMOUS HYPOCRITE?

plaetton: You are such a dumb dumb.
If you had been reading the thread and with proper comprehension skills, You would not be parading such hollowness.
Quite frankly, I enjoy debating, but when a court jester steps in into a discussion, I get tired.

Ubenedictus asserted that the pope is neither responsible nor culpable because it is only the bishops that can oversee a priests and deal such matters.

So my question to him then was : How many pedofile priests did the bishops report and hand over the police for criminal prosecution over the many decades that the evil went on unabashed and unabated?

Ant then you started blabbing like a drunken parrot.

Is pedophilia not a criminal offence?
Are catholic priests immune from criminal law?

I wish you guys would just shut up.
You are making such a mockery of your so-called sacred faith.
Gosh .

Honestly with this you have not made any point. Why are you becoming too emotional? If you get tired, why don't you go and have a break and take some Kit Kat. If you become angry, why don't go and hug a nearby Transfomer ? Besides you have not answered my questions. If you can't answer my question, why don't you stop qouting my comment. For the last time let me repeat my questions. A priest is not above the law, we both agree on this. Now if a priest molested someone and the victim reported to the police, what stops the police from arresting the priest? Are you expecting the Bishop to take handcuffs and AK47 to go and arrest the priest? (thereby doing the work of the Police) or are you expecting him to go and report a Crime he did not witness?(thereby repeating the work of the victim). Finaly by not doing the work of the police or repeating the work of the Victim, how is he covering up the case? Please just answer my questions and stop manifesting your FRUSTRATIONS.

Boomark:

Am i not right? The only denomination for the followers of Christ is called Christian. That is what differentiate us from others. I don't want to "tautologilize" that word.

Please point out what is wrong with my unbiased reply.

2 Kings 18:4
New International Version (NIV)
4 He removed the high places, smashed the sacred stones and cutdown the Asherah poles. He broke into pieces the bronze snake Moses had made, for up to that time the Israelites had been burning incense to it. (It was calledNehushtan.

like onyestephen said, the serpent symbolized how Christ will be lifted up. It was set up at that time for a purpose or one-time use. When the Israelites offered incense to it, it became an idol.

The same goes for Catholics who make the image of the cross where the Son of Man was lifted up. The kneel, bow and offer incense to it. A perfect analogy. That is why i said catholics Fiercely worship idol because i have studied what they do.

If i study those protestants well, i will come up with an unbiased conclusion about them too.

SMH for Catholics and those protestants.

My friend you are wrong in everything. [1.]First cheak the Dictionary meaning of Denomination and see that Christianity or Christian as you put it is not a denomination. [2.]You don't know anything about the Catholic Church, yet you claim to have studied what we do. You can study, FAULSE INFORMATIONS from a Non-Catholic Source and Consequently you will not Know the truth in what we practice, and this makes you a lier when you say things that are not true about Us. As I can see you have resorted to the unfruitful technique you used the last time we meet. [3.]By the way, this thread is about the idolatry you people practice, so the best thing you can do is to defend you faith by explaining how it is that you are not practicing Idolatry. Thanks

oyestephen: Bro, lemme explain better. The decree to hang a serpent on a tree is purely symbolic to repesent the lord jesus christ..'John 3:14' even as moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the son of man be lifted up' and their looking up to the serpent for healing is better explained by this 'hebrews 12:2a looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith. God uses earthly things to explain supernatural things. Eg God told abraham to sacrifice his only son then provided a lamb as replacement, that lamb symbolises Jesus to take our place on the cross. Noah's ark also symbolises the coming rapture..john 3:12 says 'if I told u earthly things, and you believe not,how shall you believe if I told you heavenly things. The fact that God used noah's ark to explain the rapture, does that mean we should worship the ark If an example is given to us, does that mean we should look at the example more than the exam, d example is just to understand the exam. God is totally against idolatry, remember he was angry when aaron and israel made a golden calf

If you actually read my comment well you know that both of us are saying Exactly the same thing.

Boomark: As a non-denominational Christian, neither catholic nor protestant, let me give you an unbiased reply.

Note that Christ might have knelt before a rock or leaned on it while he prayed. Little little grasses must have grown before or around him while he prayed to his God.

He did not use any of these as a point of contact neither did he use them to remember God while he prayed. He worshiped God in spirit and in truth, the same way he instructed us to.

The protestants that revere and use bible as a point of contact are very wrong. Also the Catholics that fiercely worship idol by making image of things in heaven and using it as a point of contact are very wrong.

First I love the way you entered, like the Serpent, not intending any harm. Claiming to be a member of a "NON-DENOMINATION" denomination, Then you promised to give an unbiased reply. Then finaly you did the opposite of what you promise. Please tell me you are not a HYPOCRITE and consequently one of them.

plaetton: This statement is the mother of all silliness that I have read so far?
You know, even though we disagree on matter of faith, I was beginning to respect you as a knowledgeable(?) and staunch defender of the catholic doctrine.
You have proven, once again, that religion, despite all its claims as a repository high moral authority, is nothing but smokes and mirrors.
You have prove, once more, that when religious belief intersects with ethics and morality, religion woefully fails.

It's sheer wickedness and callousness for you to say that the Pope's apologies are just mere acts of goodwill.
WTF?
Please go and tell that to the millions of victims of the molestations.
That statement is an embarrassment to the faith that you are defending.
Frankly, I dont think that they need your type to defend them. You are embarassing them the more.

Now, read carefully:
If the priests and bishops are the only ones responsibile for such illegal, degrading and human acts, how many such cases has the catholic investigated, and most importantly, how many priests have they handed over the police for criminal prosecution?

In your morally deficient and convoluted logic, the Pope and the leadership of church are neither responsible nor culpable, BUT, it becomes their responsibility to cover up the crimes and shield the offending priests from criminal prosecution?

I am sick in my tummy with your reasoning.

Man!
Everyday, on and off this forum, I discover that Religion is a lot more dangerous than I could ever have imagined.

How many priest have they handed over to the police for criminal procecution? What a dumb question. Just listen to yourself. So a Catholic Bishop has become more powerful than a state security sevice that he can prevent them from arresting a priest.? If someone reported a case of molestation to the police and the police after investigation found it to be true. What stoped them from arresting the priest, is the priest above the law? What stops the police from moving to the parish house to arrest the priest for breaking the law? Are they to wait for the bishop to make the arrest for them and then hand over the "arrested" priest to them? My friend if you have exhausted your points that you don't have any point to make again, instead of you to be here asking dumb question, just do the hourable thing. Go and have a break, if possible take a kit kat. By the way I have seen that you have a Problem with Religion so why spend your time on religous section?.

Evil Brain: Exactly. There is clear evidence of a cover-up. The pope was the head of the organization directly involved in the cover-up for 21 years. We have signed letters and memos that he wrote encouraging his subordinates to keep séx abuse cases quiet.

The guy clearly has a case to answer. Let him come and defend himself in court like any other suspected criminal. If he's innocent, then the truth will come out. This idea that he cant be arrested because he's the pope is nonsense. Nobody is above the law.

Go and arrest him now, why are you waisting your time on Nairaland. Go and arrest him, you know that will make Big News.

plaetton: ^^^^^
And by the way, one does not need to have a PHD in anything to be able to discern right and wrong. The only things required are common sense and a sense of moral responsibility.

Common sense being applied in an uncommon and misleading way.

plaetton: My friend , I do not normaly like to be rude, but the kind of silliness on display here just amazes me.
It seems that religion really does a lot of damage to the cereberal cortex or some other part of the brain.

Just listen to yourself: " The pope is protected from every side".
You mean protected from responsibility or protected from culpability?

HHmmmm, then I wonder why he and the Pope before him have been going around the globe apologising for the heneous crimes.

So , if the catholic clergy, which , according to you, is the most organized institution in the world, have been steadily and stealthily molesting young children, and expertly covering them up for 2000yrs, you are saying that the bona fide head of that institution, is protected from all sides from taking responsibility?

You guys shock me from every single day with you selective and ambiguous, and convoluted morality.

Just Look at this one, delibrately interpreting a simple statement out of contest. So you don't understand what I mean by "he is protected on every side". He is protected (by his INNOCENSE on every side) from your Baseless, Demonic, Wicked Plans to discredit the Vicar of Christ. Exactly as GEJ is proteted on every side by his innocence, if people like you will come up tomorrow to accuse him of being responsible for every pencil stolen in every classroom of the thousands of primary school in Naigeria. REASON: [1]He is not the little theif. [2]He is not the parent who is surposed to provide the needs of the pupil [3]He is not the form master who's work it is to punish and discourage theft. [4]He is not the Headmaster, who admitted the pupil. Guess what you people are doing, you left all the 4 persons who are directly or indirectly responsible, in addition you jumped the PTA Chairman, the Chairman of the State Education Commission ie State Education Commissioner and the Education Minister (all innocent people), to blaim The President GEJ who this theft cannot be linked to. It is obvious that you are delibrately linking this to the Pope since the Catholic Church has a similar HIERARCHY. As for appologies, so you want to tell me that you can't render an appology, unbehalf of your friend who commited a Crime? By doing that, are responsible for his Crime?