delishpot:
Hypicrites, they have shared in weapon business, they lobby governments etc but they tell their members to avoid governments.

Jesse01:
ok dey are d only xtians I like dey don't believe in Trinity, hell fire and so on

Jesse01:
are u a jw?

Hairyrapunzel:


You are just pained that someone does not believe your lies.
Like someone pointed out to you: Nazis assaulted groups who they didn't like and groups who didn't conform to their ideology.
It isn't blasphemy or libel. Nazis killed millions of Jews. They also killed homosexuals, gypsies, sintis as well as jws too. Don't make it look like they killed only jws.
Continue feigning persecution.
Who made the law that jws shouldn't join german army or hail Hitler? Rutherford
Who made the law saying Jews (Semitic race) should be Jews? Nobody. They were born that way
Jews had no choice as they couldn't change their race. Jws had a choice. The 2000 would have hailed Hitler like the other 10,000 did.
Holocaust was primarily targeted at Jews not your religion. Deal with it.
It's been ingrained in you that critics are blasphemous, libelous and slanderous. I don't think you have ever read anything on the Holocaust.
Nazis focus was never on the jws. Their focus was on the Semitic race. German Jws were just unfortunate because their leader (Rutherford) at that time told them not to hail Hitler after he had sang praises to Hitler for maltreating Jews.
Gypsies, sinti and homosexuals killed outnumbered jws killed and incarcerated combined

Hairyrapunzel:

Holocaust was never about any church being the target of the Nazis.
If its by religion being targets of hate groups then rohyindra Muslims and yazidi Christians should be true religions also.
As if they win award for most persecuted religion. Which I know your religion isn't

MuttleyLaff:

1) There is obligatory tithe imposed by the Mosaic law (i.e. the Levitical tithe also known as the Mosaic Law tithe)
2) There is obligatory tithe imposed by the christian gatherings law
(i.e. ecclesiastical tithe, where christian gatherings, taxes its members tenth, 1/10, 10% and possibly 0.1 too, of their financial income)
3) There is obligatory tithe imposed by custom law (i.e. Abraham's tithing was done, due to the social setting of that time)
4) There is obligatory tithe imposed by monarchy law (i.e. tenth of seed and of vineyards, given to the king's officials and servants)

Hairyrapunzel:

When mentioning nazi assault, also talk about the millions of Jews who were killed and also the homosexuals, sinti and gypsies whose number outnumbered that of jws. They also faced Hitler's brutality.

Rutherford your leader at that time supported Hitler in his maltreatment of the Jews. He even sang praises to Hitler. Jews had no option in Nazi Germany. Whether they hailed Hitler or not they were killed.
Ask yourself what happened to the other 10,000 that didn't die? They were released because they probably hailed Hitler.
Whenever you talk about 2000 jws in Nazi Germany, also kindly talk about the 5,000, 000 Jews in Nazi Germany, the sinti, the gypsies and the homosexuals who even when they hailed Hitler were still killed.

analize701:

It's just a question i asked o. Everyone except those in the Nazi party suffered persecution in Germany, but JW makes it seem like the whole Nazi Gate was channelled against them only. Where they singled out?

analize701:

Na only Jehovah's Witnesses suffer persecution under the Nazis? Abeg allow sobori hear something.

MuttleyLaff:
I have made distinctions between Levitical tithing and the ecclesiastical tithe
We cant run away from the fact,
that if I voluntarily give 10%, a tenth or 10 out 100 of my money, I technically have given a tithe, albeit it isnt/wasnt imposed

Brother which tithing are you refering to here please?
What and/or whom, is this tithing, you are concerned with, relating to?

What is wrong is giving by obligation, to a designated recipient,
who is under the guise of being a Levite, a regularly required 10% of financial measure,
and of which penalties like threat of curses, ostracizations, denial of rights and/or privileges etcetera is attached to non-payers and defaulters

Read below too

All tithings are a form of giving
but not all giving are a tithe or tithing
Giving could be 10% today, as in 10% equals a tithe, tenth, or 10 out 100 of your money
Giving could be 50% next month, as in 50% equals half of your money
Giving could be 100% following month, as in 100%, equals all of your money
Giving could be 0% following month after, as in 0%, equals zero goes out of your money
Could decide to give 1% month following after, as in 1%, equals 1 out 100 of your money

It is the freedom, to give whatever you're comfortable with cheerfully
This sort of giving regardless of the percentages is desirable but not obligatory
Without stipulating amounts to give, you're are trusted to know to do the right thing

10% is a fraction of 100, which tithe incidentally is
however if on your own accord, you decide to give 10% of your money,
this is not classed as tithing that is obligatory or imposed because it is willingly given

What was obliterated was tithing that is obligatory or imposed

Brother please advise, is a one-tenth part of something or 10 out 100 things, not technically a tithe?

KGBEAST:

Jehovah's witness

MuttleyLaff:
Any type or form of obligatory or imposed tithing was nailed to the stake with Jesus.

The law of Christ typifies FREEDOM,
and his includes freedom from any type or form of obligatory or imposed tithing.

You must each decide in your heart how much to give.
And don't give reluctantly or in response to pressure.
(i.e. you shouldn't be sorry that you gave or feel forced to give)
"For God loves a person who gives cheerfully."
- 2 Corinthians 9:7

No, I disconcur with your statement.
Correctly, the Bible teaches the "church" the revolutionary way of giving, where believers are instructed or urged in 2 Corinthians 9:7 above, to do

It is nowhere written in the Bible, to say exactly how much must be given or must be done.

It however, is written, that, without prejudice, you give how much you have decided in your heart,
that you give what you are pleased with and won't be sorrowful about it at the end of or after the giving

The percentage you give is not fixed or stipulated.
You can decide to give 1%,
Or decide to give 10% today, as in 10% equals a tenth or tithe.
Decide to give half or 50% tomorrow,
Decide to give all or 100%, the following day.
Decide to give nothing or 0% another day
Decide to give 1% again some other day

As we can see, there is nothing fixed.
Giving is not cast in a 10% or tithe stone.
Anyone that tells you different,
has either an incomplete or low understanding of how this freedom of giving works
and probably doesn't appreciate the revolutionary way of giving for the purpose of the Kingdom

Believers are not obligated to perform any form of imposed tithing

Anyone giving imposed tithing is practising a religion that God our Father doesnt accept as pure and faultless

2 Corinthians 9:7, by the way actually, is a rehashed principle God HAS always endorsed,
as evident in Exodus 25:2, Exodus 35:29, Deuteronomy 15:10 & 1 Chronicles 29:9

brocab:
It will be even better if you used your own page, instead of using mine..you do realise this forum travels, and we are all learning the scriptures, no-one knows for sure, who was the last apostle, you wanting to be direct isn't working, the scriptures tells the story, casting lots, or maybe spinning the bottle, worked in the eye's of man, but the disciples prayed and asked the Lord for the final decision, I still say Paul was a good candidate, but it wasn't my choice, it belonged to God to decide.. But where did Matthias go, he and the other apostles, no-one talks about them, but Paul in the other hand stood out like there is no tomorrow..
Question: "Was Matthias or Paul God's choice to replace Judas as the 12th apostle?"
Answer: With Judas having betrayed Christ and then committing suicide, the 11 remaining disciples decided to replace Judas with a new 12th apostle {Acts 1:16-20} The requirements were that the man had to have been with them the entire time of Jesus’ ministry, and to have been a witness of the resurrection and ascension {Acts 1:21-22} The 11 disciples proposed two men: Joseph called Barsabbas (possibly the same person as Barnabas), and Matthias {Acts 1:23} The 11 disciples then prayed for the Lord’s direction {Acts 1:24-25} and then cast lots, and the lot fell to Matthias {Acts 1:26}
But, was this the Lord’s choice? Some propose that Paul, not Matthias, was God’s choice for the 12th apostle.
They argue that Jesus had told the apostles to wait for the coming of the Holy Spirit {Acts 1:8}and that casting lots is not how the disciples should have made the decision.
They also point out that Matthias is never again mentioned in the New Testament, while Paul obviously became very prominent in the early Christian church. So, are they correct that Paul, not Matthias, was God’s choice to be Judas’ replacement as the 12th apostle?
The New Testament nowhere condones or condemns the way the apostles made the decision in {Acts 1} Casting lots was a bionically allowed method of making a decision {Proverbs 16:33} And, while Matthias is never again mentioned in the New Testament, the same can be said for most of the other 11 apostles.
Church history records that Matthias died as a martyr for Christ, as did all of the other apostles, except John.
Yes, Paul was definitely more prominent than Matthias, but Paul was more prominent than any of the 12 apostles, except for perhaps Peter and John. Also, Paul would not have been qualified based on the apostles’ criteria {Acts 1:21-22} So, a conclusive biblical case cannot be made for the 11 apostles’ choice of Matthias being invalid.
Further, God is sovereign. If it was not His sovereign will for Matthias to be chosen, Matthias would not have been chosen. It could be argued that, while it was God’s sovereign will (what He ordained) for Matthias to be chosen, it was God’s perfect will (what He desired) for the apostles to wait for Paul. But, this would be pure speculation, as, again, the Bible nowhere condemns Matthias being chosen for the 12th apostle.
{1 Corinthians 15:9} for I am least of the apostles, and do not even be deserved to be called an a apostle, because I persecuted the Church, but by the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace to me was not without affect, No I worked harder then all of them, yet not I-but the grace of God that was with me.
You say Matthias, I suppose without bible evidence, who's to know?

MuttleyLaff:
Well, if you are talking of the Levitical sort of paying tithe, then that one, is an obligatory or imposed tithing Jewish tradition.

Ecclesiastical tithe, is where a christian gathering, taxes its members 10%, tenth, 1/10 or possibly 0.1 too, of their financial income.
Some christian gatherings, even have a tithe ledger,
and members fall out of the christian gatherings' favour, if their names are found wanting in the tithe ledger book.

If anyone, so wishes to tithe, as in give a tenth, 1/10, 10% or possibly 0.1 of your financial income, there is nothing wrong in that
but you'll be going down the wrong path, the moment you permit this practice to be imposed upon you as a religious duty

Ecclesiastical tithe is performing something imposed and so consequently is a religious duty

Trust me, if Jesus, for a casual visit, was to come back to earth here, now, just for second, He will condem tithing
He will frown at ecclesiastical tithe, where christian gatherings, taxes its members tenth, 1/10, 10% and possibly 0.1 too, of their financial income
He will ask:
Do you know what the gospel means and is?
Gospel means good news
and it typifies FREEDOM, from any type or form of obligatory or imposed tithing.

brocab:
Maybe if you had explained your tactic's when reaching out, maybe it wouldn't sound like this?
So, "are you" {Who is are you} going to tell me now that they were misguided or disobedient to Jesus' instruction?
"Are you" going to publicly oppose the Christians in the first century?
One thing you also have to understand is, some of the pillars of the church built on Jesus, the apostles who walked and lived with Jesus gave apostle Paul the right hand of fellowship and accepted him as a fellow apostle (Galatians 2:9).
"Are you" going to be the one who rejects his inspired method of preaching that Jesus appointed him for?
We could get straight to the point, at least when preferring to "Are you" try laying the cards out on the table, with less bible bashing..

Ambiguous! But, from what I understand, you are probably referring to the question I asked you some days ago. What I implied by "are you" is YOU, BROCAB the correspondent that I am having this conversation with.

We may ask many questions concerning the bible, and I of course had come up with my own theories about the single man casting out demons, and the woman at the well, was she informed by the 70, the Messiah is coming, she believed in just a few words Jesus was the Messiah, without a second thought.

The woman was a Samaritan. Do you know who the Samaritans are? You should do a little research about the Samaritans, bro. The 70 didn't need to tell the woman anything about the Messiah because she was a Samaritan. Do some homework on that and you will see the proximity and the kind of relationship that existed between the Jews and the Samaritans.

Jesus gave the gift to caste out demons in His name to the 70 also to the 12, I don't believe the disciples knew the 70 by name, they rebuked this loner, and Jesus stood up for him, was he one of the 70? If this man isn't one of the 70, then who gave him the authority to do such miracles? It took some time for the disciples to learn the ropes, so how or where did this man receive such authority to caste out demons, and heal the sick, if he wasn't walking with Christ?

Bro, I asked a question earlier. Are you saying that there were 3 sets of people around Jesus at the time? You said the crowd, the apostles and the 70? Are the 70 also disciples or apostles?

{Matthew 7:7-8}[/color] Ask and shall be given to you, seek and you shall find, knock and it will be open, and for everyone that asked received and he that seeks finds, and to him that knocks it shall be open.
So lets start with Paul and how did Paul be an apostle since he was NOT one of Jesus' original twelve disciples?
We could say:Paul can rightfully be called an apostle because he fulfilled the same three basic requirements the specially-selected twelve original disciples met.
After the death of Judas, the church (totaling about 120)[/color] met in Jerusalem to decide who among them would be uniquely qualified to replace him {Acts 1} Those to be considered for this awesome responsibility had to have been personally called by Christ, taught by him directly for several years, and seen him alive after his resurrection {Acts 1:17, 22, 25}. Paul was the perfect candidate..

Bro, do you know that you are preaching heresy on a public forum? Please, make sure of the message that you are spreading here. Kindly read Acts 1:23-26 and revert to us(the public who read your online teaching)

Saul of Tarsus, whose name would later be changed to Paul, was initially a zealous persecutor of those who believed Christ was the Messiah {Acts 9} While traveling to Damascus in 33 A.D,three years after Jesus was resurrected, he was was miraculously confronted by the Lord and brought to repentance {verses 3 to 6} While he stayed in Damascus, a believer named Ananias received a vision that revealed why Paul was called and chosen to ultimately take on the responsibility of an apostle.
But the Lord said to him {Ananias}, "Go, for this man {Paul} is a chosen vessel to Me, to bear My name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel; For I will show him what great things he must suffer for My name" {Acts 9:15 -16}
After Paul was baptized in Damascus he began to powerful preach that Christ was the Son of God {Acts 9:20-22}Death threats from Jews living in the city, who rejected his message, drove him to flee to Arabia.
During his three years of exile in Arabia he was personally taught by Jesus {Acts 9:20-25, Galatians 1:11-12, 15-18}[/color] At this point in his life he fulfilled the same basic criteria the original disciples did in regard to being considered an apostle.
Biblical evidence exists that shows, and reaffirms, Paul's calling as an apostle. In {Acts 13} the church in Syrian Antioch is told by God to "separate both Barnabas and Saul to Me for the work to which I have called them" {Acts 13:2}
The church soon lays hands on the two men and sends them out to evangelize {verses 3-4} After this event Luke, the writer of the book of Acts, labels both men as apostles {Acts 14:14}
Paul himself, in many of his writings, asserts his right to be called an apostle {1 Corinthians 1:1, 2 Corinthians 11:5, Galatians 1:1, Colossians 1:1, 1 Timothy 1:1} Defending his unique calling to the churches in the Roman province of Galatia he writes the following. Paul, an apostle, not sent from men nor made by man, but by Jesus Christ and God the Father {Galatians 1:12}
{Galatians 1:11} But I certify to you, brethren, that the gospel that was preached by me is not according to man, {12} Because neither did I receive it from man, nor was I taught it by man; rather, it was by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
But when it pleased God, Who selected me from my mother's womb, and called me by His grace.
Paul wasn't actually chosen by the apostles, the Holy Spirit led Paul to be the last apostle.

Do you call this teaching? You could have simply cited the Bible chapter for me to read. Kindly answer my questions above, please. My previous questions are still pending

brocab:
One minute you are preaching to me, the next minute your telling me "what I am about to say? If you are looking for a good digestion, then at least give me enough time to prepare, and lets talk about the 70-Jesus had sent out to prepare the way in {Luke 9:1-10}
I am not seeking after which organisation want's to take all the credit, and I do read the scriptures to know Paul was the last apostle, if you are hear to judge me, I am not interested, but if you are here to learn, I am here to learn also, and it's important to understand the scriptures, and understanding what the 70 were about, they prepared the way for Jesus, it makes sense when we read about the Samaritan woman at the well, she heard about the Messiah coming, who is called the Christ {John 4:25}
We also read about the disciples rebuking a man on the road, he was casting out demons in Jesus's name {Mark 9:38-39} we could guess, was he one of the 70? And were the 70 part of the 120 disciples in Acts, they all received the Holy Spirit.
[1] When Jesus had called the Twelve together, he gave them power and authority to drive out all demons and to cure diseases, and he sent them out to preach the kingdom of God and to heal the sick.
[2] He told them: "Take nothing for the journey -- no staff, no bag, no bread, no money, no extra tunic, Whatever house you enter, stay there until you leave that town.
[3] If people do not welcome you, shake the dust off your feet when you leave their town, as a testimony against them."
[4] So they set out and went from village to village, preaching the gospel and healing people everywhere.
[5] Now Herod the tetrarch heard about all that was going on. And he was perplexed, because some were saying that John had been raised from the dead, others that Elijah had appeared, and still others that one of the prophets of long ago had come back to life.
For the first time in Luke's Gospel, Jesus finally calls upon his disciples to do something.
Up until now they have been primarily observers and hearers. He has taught a hundred crowds in their hearing, imbedded in their minds his message and methods day after day, week after week, month after month until they know them by heart. Now it is time to send them out to learn how to "minister."
Some disciples never seem to get beyond hearing. They are "feeders but never farmers." "They come to church for a meal" not a mission.
The training of Jesus' disciples has now reached a crucial juncture. In verses {1-2} we see a kind of rhythm. Gathering and sending, gathering and sending.
"When Jesus had called the Twelve together, he gave them power and authority ... and he sent them out.{Luke 9:1-2}
For now it is the Twelve Apostles, later he calls the Seventy {Luke 10:1-24} and sends them out the same way He sends out the 12.
But what about the crowds? When does he send them out? He doesn't.
They've come for a spiritual meal, while the disciples, the "learners," have come to learn a way of life, not everybody can preach the ways of Christ.
And not everyone are saved, Many are called, but few are chosen..

brocab:
Call it what you like-It doesn't really matter to me, how you see yourself negative or scary, anybody that comes in his own name and claims to know Christ, and doesn't provide the evidence, is worth testing the Spirit, it works everytime.
Of course I didn't expect you would understand anything I had written, Jesus could never suit your standards anyway, Jesus is the forgotten God, and He could never match up to the Almighty Mighty God, now could He? And yet these both candidates Jesus and God carry the same authorised positions.
{Deuteronomy 4:35, 10:17} You yourselves have been shown these things so you will know that Jehovah is the true God, there is no other besides him. and again {Hosea 13:4} Besides God their is no savior.
And In {Job 36:5, Psalms 24:8 Isaiah 10:21, 43:10-11,} before me, no God was formed, and after me there has been none, and again, I-I am Jehovah," and besides me there is no Savior}
{John 12:44-50, Isaiah 45:23} A righteous God and savior, there is none besides Me. Jesus doesn't even come close to a mention, not in the NWT bible anyway? But Jesus is the savour of this world.
Again {Isaiah 44:8} Jehovah is called the Rock. {1 Corinthians 10:4} and that Rock meant the Christ.
If Jesus isn't God, then what does this say, {John 17:1} FATHER THE HOUR HAS COME. GLORIFY YOUR SON SO THAT YOUR SON MAY GLORIFY YOU.
{Isaiah 42:8} I am the Lord, that is My name, My Glory I give to no other.. If Jesus isn't God Who can glorify themselves?
We all know the JW's don't believe in the trinity, but yet the NWT have other idea's about the trinity?
{2 Corinthians 13:14} "The undeserved kindness of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God and the sharing in the Holy Spirit be with all of you.
And I will like to add, {John 1:1} never received a mentioned, and if you knew your bible, as well as you think you do, the KJV for instants, you would know everything about Jesus, is God that became flesh and lived among the people.
{Matthew 1:23} Immanuel means God with us..

Penalty82:

The words of Jesus is written in red.
Is there anywhere He discouraged Christians not to pay tithe?.

brocab:
Are you not a loveingJehovah, and is Jehovah the name used as a witness?
{1 John 4:1} Does not the Lord tell us to test every Spirit"
And the gospel I had written to you, shouldn't offend you, at the least, are you fully agreeable, and you do come to me, in Jesus name, do you agree Jesus is the Almighty God?
{1 John 5:20, Revelation 22:20, Matthew 1:23, and 1 Timothy 3:16} these verses should not offend you..
I can write to you until the sun go's down, but with a name you prefer to use as your calling name, will surely raises a few issues.

brocab:
Firstly if you were on the same track as the apostles were, you wouldn't come to preach another doctrine, do you agree?
{1 John 5:20} And you believe the Son of God has come, and He has given us insight" so that we may gain the knowledge of the One who is true. And we are in Union with the One who is true, by means of His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and everlasting. "Do you agree?
{Revelation 22:20} And the One who bears witness of these things says, "Yes. I am coming quickly."' Amen! Come, Lord Jesus."
And you do believe {1 Timothy 3:16} God was manifested in the flesh..
{Matthew 1:23} And they will name Him Immanuel. Which means when translated "With us is God.
You do agree this is the true gospel, and in every home this gospel should be preached throughout the world.

budaatum:

I followed the arguments right through and find the fact you actually have engaged with the text very highly refreshing.

A lot of people try to square the Trinity argument but never confess they don't quite get it. They spew what they have been told to believe without realising they are actually killing one aspect of that Trinity they are claiming to be an aspect of God.

brocab:
Luke 10 New King James Version (NKJV)
The Seventy Sent Out
{10} After these things the Lord appointed seventy others also,[a] and sent them two by two before His face into every city and place where He Himself was about to go.
{2} Then He said to them, “The harvest truly is great, but the laborers are few; therefore pray the Lord of the harvest to send out laborers into His harvest.
{3} Go your way; behold, I send you out as lambs among wolves.
{4} Carry neither money bag, knapsack, nor sandals; and greet no one along the road.
{5} But whatever house you enter, first say, ‘Peace to this house.’
{6} And if a son of peace is there, your peace will rest on it; if not, it will return to you.
{7} And remain in the same house, eating and drinking such things as they give, for the laborer is worthy of his wages.
Do not go from house to house.
{8} Whatever city you enter, and they receive you, eat such things as are set before you.
{9} And heal the sick there, and say to them, ‘The kingdom of God has come near to you.’