Okay, cool.
Can you kindly tell us that Jesus lied in John 20:17; 1 Corinthians 8:6; 1 Timothy 2:5; John 17:3

Just say it openly because Jesus said that we cannot serve 2 Gods in Matthew 6:24;

Ferisidowu:
no problems.... My point is that Jesus is God and not "a god". The Jews understood his notion and wanted to kill him ...... Besides even Joseph wasn't Jesus father all these things we know

The Bible does not cause any confusion. The confusion stems from the Devil. There are many heretics teaching falsehood about God and they have spread the falsehood around the world for centuries.
John 17:3 Jesus himself referred to his father as the ONLY TRUE GOD.
Let me put it this way. if I meet you in person and you tell me about your family. In your words, you confess to me that your father is the man of the house. Then, I go about telling people that you are also the man of the house because you are a male child. That would be disrespectful to your father if he gets to hear such stories spread about in the city because he birthed and provides for you. He gave you authority over his property and business. That does not equal you to your father. You remain a son and not a coequal.
The truth is, Jesus in John 20:17 told everyone who has access to read or hear the Bible's message that Jehovah is his father and God. He proceeded by saying that the same God (that he called God to anyone who reads and hears the words that he spoke) is his(Jesus') God in turn. Fast-forward about 2000 years after, people are spreading falsehood that Jesus lied to us. That he(Jesus) is the man that he(Jesus) called his God while he was with them. that is it the same person and also a coequal. Is it logical for someone to be your God and at the same time be your father and your coequal? It would have been an expensive prank to play.
God is not a God of confusion. The idea is they are trying too hard to co-equalise God and Jesus. I guarantee you that it doesn't end there. If you fall for that, remember that another entity is on the line to be co-equaled. We are only talking about God and Jesus here and you can imagine the controversy and outright rejection of Jesus' words by people who claim that Jesus is their God. There is a dogma of the godhead and as soon as they whoosh you by co-equaling God and Jesus, the holy spirit becomes another God that must be added to complete that doctrine.
This is very unbiblical. The Bible clearly states in 1 Corinthians 8:6 that there are other gods but "to us" there is only one God, Jehovah, and one Lord, Jesus. You may wonder, when the Bible says "to us", do these people arguing to deify Jesus fall under "to us" or not?
Jehovah is THE ONLY TRUE GOD - Jesus words in John 17:3
Jesus is our Lord and mediator - 1 Corinthians 8:6; 1 Timothy 2:5

olamkas:
It's more like the bible is causing serious confusion amongst christians. If I may ask, who and who authored the bible sef. Is it a direct revelation sent to Jesus or what because I can't understand why the bible is supporting both the for and against.
Also, if Jesus is on the right side of God and he too is god, then it means two gods exist according to the bible . The book told us again that there's only one True God as earlier quoted, then the other should be a false god. The question now is, which is true and which is false.

I do not mean that in a bad way, and accept my apology if that sounded derogatory.
The idea that I am putting forth is what is obtainable today. There are so many Bible translations shooting out heretic doctrines and making it difficult for people to actually find the truth about God.

Nevertheless, that is btw. So, your argument is that Jesus is equal to God?

Ferisidowu:
does it look like anything is wrong with the Bible Why did you say I could have written my own Bible that's derogatory

You seem to be saying the same thing as my comments. Jesus is truly God's begotten son. The blasphemy on him did not make any difference from who he truly is. But you are contrasting yourself by equalling Jesus to God. You call him the SON of God yet equal to God. If it were possible for you to write a new Bible, you would have. People have gone around calling his God the son as opposed to the son of God that the Bible calls him just to suit that doctrine of the godhead.
If we peer deeper into your doctrine the conclusion will be 'God is a mystery" which is not true.
Can you tell me, why is Jesus referred to as the 'son'?

Ferisidowu:
yes indeed they were the ones blaspheming him by not placing him where he ought to be "john 5:18" "
"18 So the Jewish leaders were trying all the harder to kill him, because he was not only breaking the Sabbath but was also calling God his own Father, thereby making himself equal to God"
Now the Jews had called God their own father John 8:41 [/b]yet they did not understand that as blasphemy .......why should they now understand [b]Christ calling God his father as blasphemy ....... It shows they know that God has adopted children .... And one proper son or begotten son who they understand as equal with the father..... That's exactly why they wanted to kill him ... They understood that Jesus was claiming God's begotten son ....

On why they wanted to stone him is found in the same verse. They blasphemed that he was making himself equal to God when he called God his father.
In John 20:17 he said that he is also our God and father. Should we be considered equalling ourselves to God for calling him our father?
Still not satisfied?
I am happy that you arrived at Jehovah but where dis you get your definitiom of Jehovah from?

Ferisidowu:
. Even though you still haven't answered my question on why they wanted to stone him...... THE TRUE NAME OF GOD IS YHWH which was translated Jehovah (Exo 3:15)

They wanted to kill him and they did kill for blasphemy. But, the scriptures made us understand that he was wrongly accused. They, the killers are the ones who blasphemed against him.
You quoted John 5:18 when Jesus called God his father, yet they wrongly accused him of making himself equal to God.

Ferisidowu:
OK why? Why did they want to kill him?

My brother, I will not evade a question that I have been answering for decades. I wanted you to have a solid background on the issue before we can deliberate on it.
Evasion is the least idea in my mind that is why I gave you those study materials. Those pictures are items stored in popular Museums in the world and treasured like gold. I wish you could use them as a guide. This issue is far beyond surface research.
Firstly, let us begin with, what do you consider as the true name of God?

Ferisidowu:


Hello, pick the false statements that are present in the post.... Attacking the source shouldnt be the issue attacking the information. Should be??

Besides I try all possible best to answer your questions unlike you who evade mine

Can you refer me to the authority from which your meaning of God's name, Jehovah sprouted?

My question was were the Jews wanting to kill him?.
The answer is an emphatic YES

Ferisidowu:
THE MEANING

My question was were the Jews wanting to kill him?.

My question is purely grammatical
The beauty here is that the Bible self-explains itself. This is not a grammatical but a spiritual stance. If you go with your theory, many more counter questions will spring up and you will not have any Bible-sourced answers for them. The other verses have given you expository detail to the sense carried in that verse. It is in the sense of qualities and Genesis chapter 3 threw more light on it.
God is a spirit as the Bible puts it, Man was made in his image, yet Man is dust. You cannot explain your theory to an atheist without a mysterious conclusion.
I want you to know that Jehovah's Witnesses do accept the teaching of the Bible when it speaks of many gods in 1 Corinthians 8:5. Nevertheless, the summation of it is, "there is actually to 'us' one God, the Father", 1 Corinthians 8:6.
Are you part of the 'us' referred in the verse?

And in Exodus 7:1, the word there is "god" not "God".
You may read from other translations or better still seek the original Hebrew word used in that verse.

joshnes:
lovingJehovah the issue of man being made in God's image is not the bone of contention. My question is purely grammatical, the pronouns "us" and "our" in vs 26 is it the same reference to the noun "God" in vs 27? And in Exodus 7:1, the word there is "god" not "God". The same in Psalm 82:6.

Wow! I am shocked. This is the first time of seeing such defaming definition of God's name.
With all due respect, I will like to state that all religious scholars will term you a heretic if you display this definition(translation) publicly. BTW is it a meaning or a translation?
Please, insert a reference or the source of your comment.

as for the earlier question...
John 5:18 For this reason they tried all the more to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God

Ferisidowu:
. Oh nice but why did they want to stone him
.since you are a researcher I wonder how you don't know the meaning of Jehovah well it means "[b]SELF EXISTING ONE"[/b]

I least expected a reply in less than 30 minutes. Give some time to God, bro. I did suggest a THOROUGH research. All you did was copy and paste from a single source. Research requires a combination of sources. I gave you the Tetragrammaton and I thought that you would use that as a guide.
Let me attach some historical documents to your delight. I plead that you spend some more time on this serious issue relating to God's name.

Ferisidowu:


Now since you said I should do a thorough research

These are mine findings:::::
I Am that I Am (אֶהְיֶה אֲשֶׁר אֶהְיֶה‎, ehyeh asher ehyeh [ehˈje aˈʃer ehˈje]) is the common English translation (JPS among others) of the response that God used in the Hebrew Bible when Moses asked for his name (Exodus 3:14). It is one of the most famous verses in the Torah. Hayah means "existed" in Hebrew; ehyeh is the first person singular imperfect form and is usually translated in English Bibles as "I am" or "I will be" (or "I shall be", for example, at Exodus 3:14. Ehyeh asher ehyeh literally translates as "I Am Who I Am." The ancient Hebrew of Exodus 3:14 lacks a future tense such as modern English has, yet a few translations render this name as "I Will Be What I Will Be," given the context of Yahweh's promising to be with his people through their future troubles.[1] Both the literal present tense "I Am" and the future tense "I will be" have given rise to many attendant theological and mystical implications in Jewish tradition. However, in most English Bibles, in particular the King James Version, the phrase is rendered as I am that I am.
Ehyeh-Asher-Ehyeh (often contracted in English as "I AM" is one of the Seven Names of God accorded special care by medieval Jewish tradition.[2] The phrase is also found in other world religious literature, used to describe the Supreme Being, generally referring back to its use in Exodus. The word Ehyeh is considered by many rabbinical scholars to be a first-person derivation of the Tetragrammaton, see for example Yahweh.


Also

In the Hellenistic Greek literature of the Jewish diaspora the phrase "Ehyeh asher ehyeh" was rendered in Greek "ego eimi ho on ", "I am the BEING".
Septuagint Exodus 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I am HE WHO IS (ho ōn): and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, HE WHO IS (ho ōn) hath sent me unto you.[4]

I am a JW
Well, if you do a thorough research you will see that I AM is not the name of God. You can do your research. You probably have been reading spurious translations of the scriptures.
The name Jehovah means HE CAUSES TO BECOME and not I AM.
If you bring that argument then 1 Corinthians 15:10 will send you back to a decision table.
What is the Hebrew form of I AM?
Here is the Tetragrammaton YHWH. Do a research to benefit yourself.

Ferisidowu:
I'm throwing this question to all JW's I need your vfew or point concerning JOHN8;58-59.

That is a very brilliant question and I saw it coming. So far, I want to acknowledge the polite and respectful manner in which you have carried this conversation. It is a privilege that you give me the honor to respond to your intelligent questions.

However, if we go by your theory, we will end up co-equalling man to God. And, if we do that we will arrive at calling God dust because Man came from the dust, which I believe that you agree with.
The answer to your question can be found in Genesis 3:22 "Jehovah God then said: “Here the man has become like one of us in knowing good and bad".
Genesis 3:5 For God knows that in the very day you eat from it, your eyes will be opened and you will be like God, knowing good and bad

If we magnify these verses one might want to ask you a counter question, "truly in what image was Man created if it took the knowledge of sin to make him be like God?
Perfection! The consummate ability to possess qualities that come from only God.

Before the creation of man, Jesus said that he learned those qualities from God and he spoke just as he heard from God. Since Jesus said that he does nothing of his own initiative but God's, it was fitting to have used the pronoun "us" in that sentence.

Let me make a reference to Exodus 7:1 "Jehovah then said to Moses: “See, I have made you like God to Pharʹaoh, and Aaron your own brother will become your prophet.+ 2 You are to repeat everything that I will command you,.."

In the above verse, you can see the relationship between the two instances. Moses was like a God to Pharoah, yet what he was to do was only repeat the words of Jehovah. Therefore, if being a God to Pharoah was simply repeating words, then, think about possessing similar qualities with Jehovah. That is why Man was addressed as being in the form of God. We know we are dust, empty vessels, but possessing qualities emanating from Jehovah alone, we are pure in his eyes and can be pronounced being in the image of God.

Nevertheless, man is “in God’s image” in that he was created with moral qualities like those of God, namely, love and justice. (Compare Col 3:10.) He also has powers and wisdom above those of animals, so that he can appreciate the things that God enjoys and appreciates, such as beauty and the arts, speaking, reasoning, and similar processes of the mind and heart of which the animals are not capable. Moreover, man is capable of spirituality, of knowing and having communication with God. (1Co 2:11-16; Heb 12:9) For such reasons, man was qualified to be God’s representative and to have in subjection the forms of creature life in the skies, on the earth, and in the sea.

Further reference could be 1 Corinthians 15:27 For God “subjected all things under his feet.” But when he says that ‘all things have been subjected,’ it is evident that this does not include the One who subjected all things to him. 28 But when all things will have been subjected to him, then the Son himself will also subject himself to the One who subjected all things to him, that God may be all things to everyone.

This above is the same "us" used in Genesis 1:26. You can see the subjection going on and if they are coequal that would be a disqualifier to equality.
Let us put it this way, if a parent say, "let us make a baby". That does not automatically make the wife a husband or the husband a wife. It is a unification of purpose and a working together.

joshnes:
nice answer lovingJehovah now Jehovah told Jesus let US (Jehovah & Jesus) make man in OUR (Jehovah & Jesus) own image. The next verse i.e. 27. "So GOD created man in his own image, in the image of GOD created he him....." Now my follow up question: If we were created by an "us" who is later referred to as God. We were created in the image of an "OUR" who is later also referred to as God. Will you say man was not created in the image of Jesus & Jehovah later called God. Does that not discredit your theory that Jesus is not God?

MANY celebrations were held in England this year to commemorate the 400th anniversary of the King James version of the Bible, otherwise known as the Authorized Version. These included special TV and radio documentaries, as well as conferences, lectures, and seminars.

Prince Charles took a lead in celebrating the national treasure that bears the name of King James I of England. How, though, did the King James Version, published in May 1611, attain a unique place in the hearts of English-speaking people?

Translation Gains Momentum

By the middle of the 16th century, a longing for knowledge of the teachings of the Bible had begun to sweep across Europe. Nearly two centuries earlier, about 1380, John Wycliffe had whetted the appetite of English-speaking people with a translation of the Bible from Latin. In the following two centuries, his followers, the Lollards, circulated handwritten Bible texts countrywide.

Bible scholar William Tyndale’s New Testament was another milestone. It was translated from the original Greek into English by 1525. Shortly afterward, in 1535, Miles Coverdale produced his complete English Bible. A year before that, Henry VIII broke relations with Rome and also made a strategic move. To strengthen his position as head of the Church of England, Henry VIII authorized a translation of the Bible into English. It is known as the Great Bible. Printed in 1539, it was a large volume in heavy Gothic type.

Puritans and other Protestant exiles from all over Europe settled in Geneva, Switzerland. In 1560 the Geneva Bible, the first English Bible in easy-to-read type, was produced, with chapters divided into verses. It was imported to England from continental Europe and quickly became popular. Eventually, in 1576, the Geneva Bible was also printed in England. Maps and marginal notes helped clarify its text. But some of its readers were irritated by its notes because these spoke against the papacy.

Meeting a Challenge

Because the Great Bible failed to gain general acceptance and the Geneva Bible contained contentious footnotes, a revised Bible was decided upon. The Great Bible was chosen as its basis. The task was entrusted to Church of England bishops, and in 1568 the Bishops’ Bible was published. This was a large volume, replete with many engravings. But Calvinists, who repudiated religious titles, took exception to the word “bishops.” So the Bishops’ Bible was not generally accepted in England.

King James I, after ascending the English throne in 1603,* endorsed the making of a fresh Bible translation. He stipulated that it should commend itself to all by omitting any offensive notes or comments.

King James promoted the project. Eventually, 47 scholars in six separate groups across the country prepared sections of the text. Making use of the work of both Tyndale and Coverdale, these Bible scholars basically revised the Bishops’ Bible. However, they also drew from the Geneva Bible and the Roman Catholic Rheims New Testament of 1582.

James himself was a respected Bible scholar, and the translation’s dedication to “the most high and mighty prince, James” acknowledged his initiative. As head of the Church of England, James was seen to be exerting his authority to bring the nation together.

A Literary Masterpiece

The clergy were pleased to receive from the hand of their king a Bible “appointed to be read in Churches.” However, the question remained, How would the nation receive this new Bible translation?

The translators, in their original extended preface, revealed their apprehensions as to whether this new translation would be accepted. However, the King James Version fared well, even though it took some 30 years for it to supplant the Geneva Bible in the affections of the people.

“By that time,” says The Bible and the Anglo-Saxon People, “it was the Authorized Version, though its only authorization had been its own excellence.” The Cambridge History of the Bible concludes: “Its text acquired a sanctity properly ascribable only to the unmediated voice of God; to multitudes of English-speaking Christians it has seemed little less than blasphemy to tamper with the words of the King James Version.”

To the Ends of the Earth

The early settlers from England who landed in North America brought with them the Geneva Bible. Later, however, the King James Version gained greater acceptance in America. As the British Empire expanded throughout the world, Protestant missionaries spread its use. Since many who translated the Bible into local languages were unfamiliar with Biblical Hebrew and Greek, the King James Version in English became the basis for these local translations.

Today, according to the British Library, “The King James, or Authorised, Version of the Bible remains the most widely published text in the English language.” Some estimates put the number of copies of the King James Version produced in print worldwide at over one billion!

Time for Change

Over the centuries, many have believed that the King James Version is the only “true” Bible. In 1870, work on a full revision of it started in England. Later a minor American revision of the resulting English Revised Version was published as the American Standard Version.* In a more recent revision, in 1982, the preface to the Revised Authorised Version says that effort was made “to maintain that lyrical quality which is so highly regarded in the Authorised Version” of 1611.

Although the Bible remains the world’s best seller—and the King James Version is the most popular one—Professor Richard G. Moulton observed: “We have done almost everything that is possible with these Hebrew and Greek writings. . . . We have translated them [and] revised the translations . . . There is yet one thing left to do with the Bible: simply to read it.”

Without question, the King James Version is a literary masterpiece, appreciated and valued for its unparalleled beauty of expression. But what about the importance of its message? The Bible’s inspired writings reveal the lasting remedy for the problems of our critical times. No matter which version or translation you choose to use, Jehovah’s Witnesses will be happy to help you in your study of the Bible.

[Footnotes]

James was born in 1566 and was crowned in 1567 as James VI of Scotland. When he was crowned King James I of England in 1603, he became the ruler of both countries. In 1604, he took the title “King of Great Britain.”

See the accompanying box “The American Standard Version.”

[Box/Picture on page 23]

THE AMERICAN STANDARD VERSION

In 1901 the American Standard Version was published. It was based on the text of the King James Version. Its preface states: “We are not insensible to the justly lauded beauty and vigor of the style of the Authorized [King James] Version.” Yet, the American Standard Version made a significant adjustment.

The preface explains this: “The American Revisers, after a careful consideration, were brought to the unanimous conviction that a Jewish superstition, which regarded the Divine Name as too sacred to be uttered, ought no longer to dominate in the English or any other version of the Old Testament, as it fortunately does not in the numerous versions made by modern missionaries.”

It is not that the divine name, Jehovah, does not appear at all in the King James Version. It does appear in four places, namely Exodus 6:3; Psalm 83:18; Isaiah 12:2; and Isaiah 26:4. The American Standard Version of 1901, however, restored the name to some 7,000 of its rightful places in the Bible.

[Picture]

1901

[Box/Picture on page 24]

MEETING A SPECIAL NEED

In 1907 a Bible Students Edition of the King James Version was published in the United States of America for the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society. It included an extensive appendix called the “Berean Bible Teachers’ Manual.” Later, Jehovah’s Witnesses printed the King James Version on their own presses. By 1992 the Witnesses had produced 1,858,368 copies.

[Picture]

1907

[Box/Picture on page 24]

A VALUABLE MODERN TRANSLATION

In the past half century, many Bible translations (some of them printed in numerous languages) have been provided. Considered especially valuable by many is the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures. More than 170 million copies have been distributed, in whole or in part, in 100 languages. The maps, alphabetical index, and appendix in its Reference Edition have helped readers to understand more clearly the Bible’s message for our day.

I understand you perfectly, but as a Bible student, I have no authority to speak on my own initiative. I base my answers on the scriptures as we all have been mandated to do in Galatians 1:8.

Who was speaking in Genesis 1:26?
According to Genesis 2:7, Jehovah God was the one speaking in Genesis 1:26.

In whose image did the speaker say man should be made?
Man was made in the image of God in Genesis 1:27.

Who are the "us" and "our" referred to in Genesis 1:26?
Apparently, it seems logical that at Genesis 1:26, Jehovah was speaking to his only-begotten Son, the “master worker,” who was at his side during the creation of the heavens and the earth (Proverbs 8:22-31). And, since Colossians 1:15 spoke only of Jesus to have been created to be the representation of God, we can logically say that it was indeed Jesus that Jehovah was speaking to.

joshnes:
lovingJehovah firstly, thanks for your confidence in my english comprehension, and I also believe that yours is very good too. Based on that belief, I will like to ask you some questions from that Genesis 1:26 you quoted. I will love it if you answer me directly first then you can explain in another post. I want to believe you understand me. The Questions: (1) Who was speaking in Genesis 1:26? (2) In whose image did the speaker say man should be made? (3) Who are the "us" and "our" referred to in Genesis 1:26? Please just give me the answers only because I have follow up questions. Thanks.

I did not separate Jehovah from Jesus. When did I do that?? The Bible did it. In Genesis 1:26 Let us make mankind in our image.
I am very confident that your level of English comprehension exceeds the average. You very well know the use of "us" and "our" in English.
Did I separate? Do you disagree that the verse was referring to Jesus?
When the Bible referred to Jesus as the word, whose word did it say it was?
The Bible calls the word Jehovah's son. Can a son be the father at the same time?
John 20:17 Jesus called his father his God and our God and father. Can you say that you are also coequal to God?
Jesus said that he is the FIRTSBORN of all creation. Can a firstborn be the same as his father?

You quoted Phil 2 which is a brilliant quote, but if you proceed to Phil 2:9 For this very reason, God exalted him to a superior position and kindly gave him the name that is above every other name.
could he have raised himself to a superior position?
Phil 2:11 "and every tongue should openly acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord..."
The same chapter that you quoted urges you to confess Jesus as LORD. Were you asked to confess him as God??
In the same scriptures, Jesus in more than one verse said that the father is greater than him. He called him father and the father called him son. Is it for nothing that they refer to themselves that way? Jesus called him God but the father never called Jesus God. Jesus prayed to Jehovah but Jehovah never prayed to Jesus. Jesus said that he does not know the day and hour but the father knows. If you say that they are the same person, then Jesus could have told a lie in John 20:17. Do you think that he lied when he told you who your God is in John 20:17? It would be as good as calling Jesus a liar if you say that John 20:17 is incorrect.

joshnes:
lovingJehovah the problem is you are making an error separating Jehovah from Jesus. It is the same person manifested in various forms. Jehovah (God Above Us), Jesus (God With Us) and The Holy Spirit (God In Us). The scripture you quoted in Exodus has no meaning to what you are trying to explain. Jesus dropped His God-nature before coming to earth as a man ( Phil 2:5-11). John puts it better when he said "the Word became flesh". How will you see flesh and die? If the Word became flesh then He must have been something else before becoming flesh. I want you to show me where Jesus said He is not God. But we have scriptures where he said " I and My Father are one" "if you have seen me you have seen the Father". There are scriptures where He is called " THE Mighty God" "THE Everlasting Father". God is One and if Jesus is THE MIGHTY GOD, He is the same person as Jehovah The Almighty. Unless there is more than one God.

The Bible’s answer

No. The Bible shows that we should pray only to God, in Jesus’ name. Jesus told his disciples: “This is how you are to pray: Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name.” (Matthew 6:9, New American Bible) Never did he instruct his disciples to pray to saints, angels, or anyone other than God.

Jesus also told his followers: “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.” (John 14:6, NAB) Only Jesus is authorized by God to intercede on our behalf.—Hebrews 7:25.

What if I pray to God and also pray to saints?

As part of the Ten Commandments, God said: “I, the LORD, your God, am a jealous God.” (Exodus 20:5, NAB) In what way is God “jealous”? The footnote in the New American Bible says that he is “demanding exclusive allegiance.” God demands that acts of allegiance or worship—including prayer—be directed exclusively to him.—Isaiah 48:11.

We offend God if we pray to anyone else, even to saints or holy angels. When the apostle John tried to worship an angel, the angel stopped him by saying: “Don’t! I am a fellow servant of yours and of your brothers who bear witness to Jesus. Worship God.”—Revelation 19:10, NAB.

Before I begin, let me make this clear for the 2nd time. Here is your word in Italic 'If you say Jehovah produced Christ Jesus...'
I am reiterating that it is not my saying but I quoted the Bible verse (Proverbs 8:22) and you read it in your own Bible. Are you disputing that verse? I will like to remind you that we still have the Greek word from which that verse was translated, so if you are going to make your own translation to suit a doctrine do not forget that you will only sound heretic when the Greek reference is made.

Your questions are in Italic.
Is Jehovah eternal?
The Bible says that he is. 1 Timothy 1:17 Now to the King of eternity, incorruptible, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen.
Take note that it says the only God is invisible. Which corroborates Exodus 33:20 "... you cannot see my face, for no one may see me and live."
If you believe Jesus is in the same Godhead, does he have a different face from Jehovah? Did the people who saw Jesus' face die? If they didn't then, that invalidates Exodus 33:20 going by your "Jesus is coequal to God" doctrine. Can you come out openly to invalidate Exodus 33:20 on the basis of your doctrine?
And, If you accept that he has a different face, how then can that justify Hebrews 1:3 "The son is...the exact representation of His nature...?
The further one tries to navigate a way to justify the coequality of Jesus to God, the higher the chances to go down the chasm of logic and philosophy which becomes a deviation from the word of God. Most people I know end up with the cliché "God is a mystery". That is one way out since the doctrine cannot be backed by the Bible.
The second and most ruthless act of all is changing texts in the Bible to accommodate a heretic doctrine of that kind.

Was there a time Jehovah never had wisdom?
Jehovah has always been the same and he never changes Malachi 3:6.
The Bible says that Jesus learned from his father John 5:30. If Jehovah never had wisdom, what/how did Jesus learn from him? Jesus said that a blind man cannot lead a blind man in Luke 6:39.
Hebrews 5:9 said that Jesus "...was made perfect..." Of course, you need a wise God to be able to do such.

Proverbs 4:10 Listen, my son, accept what I say, and the years of your life will be many.

bloodofthelamb:

Is Jehovah eternal? Was there a time Jehovah never had wisdom? If you say Jehovah produced Christ Jesus. His wisdom in a certain period. That only means one thing: Jehovah was without wisdom, knowledge and understanding until He created it.

It only means that Jehovah God is not eternally wise and knowledgeable... Therefore, I cannot rely in His wisdom, for it will have an end.
That verse is better rendered Jehovah possessed me from the beginning.

If the Bible does not convince you, I wonder what will. Where else would you want me to get answers if not from the Bible? If you already knew about this why did the question pop up?
Below is your question:

IF YOU SAID JEHOVAH CREATED JESUS HIS WORD, TELL ME HOW?

I never said that Jehovah created Jesus, I only showed you a Bible verse where Jesus himself said that he was created by Jehovah. It is not my word. The Bible said it and I accepted it as the truth. Though, it is appropriate that I quote from the Bible so that it doesn't become my word against the Bible. You may read it again in Proverbs 8:22 "Jehovah produced me as the beginning of his way,
The earliest of his achievements of long ago".

The question is, do you doubt Jesus or your Bible?

Just in case that is not sufficient, let us also read it from the book of Colossians 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation

You asked, 'through what WORD did Jehovah create Jesus? And I referred you to Luke 9:35 Then a voice came out of the cloud, saying: “This is my Son, the one who has been chosen. Listen to him.

I said, Jesus could have been created through the same voice that Jehovah used to proclaim the word in Luke 9:35

Is there something else that the Bible has to prove to you?

bloodofthelamb:
MY QUESTION IS A SIMPLE ONE... THE SCRIPTURE DID NOT LEAVE US IN THE DARK, CONCERNING HOW GOD{JEHOVAH} PRODUCED/CREATED/MADE ALL THINGS.

JEHOVAH NEVER MADE A PIN WITHOUT THE "WORD". IF YOU SAID JEHOVAH CREATED JESUS HIS WORD, TELL ME HOW?

IS THIS NOT SIMPLE? NOT TELLING ME WHAT I ALREADY KNOW ABOUT MY GOD AND FATHER.

Well, if this message is referred to me then I am confused. We have been having a decent conversation and I didn't see this turn coming.
I have answered ALL your questions and I am yet to get your response to all the questions that I asked.
I do not need to run to my elders to respond to questions. There is no distinction in our religion. We are all running the same race. I do not see a question here that will shake my faith. I am not here to be shaken but to reason from the scriptures. I talk with people of all religions almost every day and I reason with people who are sincere with their questions and not antagonists who come for a ding-dong.
Are my answers unsatisfactory to you? Or do you have any issues with the Bible verses in my comments?

bloodofthelamb:
YOU ARE JUST CONFUSE...GO AND ASK YOUR ELDERS THE QUESTION I ASKED YOU AND STOP BEING CUNNING.
THAT IS HOW THE DEVIL DECEIVED ADAM AND EVE WITH HALF TRUTH.... I HAND YOU OVER TO THE HOLY SPIRIT.

I, as a Jehovah's witness, do not come here to ding-dong. Whatever things are true and of serious concern we I will pay heed to it. You, the ridiculer quoting me, take win and leave. There is nothing to gain from a heated debate with a ridiculer. You are not reeling me into that darkness.

It is interesting to know that you are all agog on spiritual matters. Your questions are brilliant and well-thought-out. I do appreciate that.
Concerning your question, I will like to mention the 4 dominant qualities of Jehovah.
1. Power
2. Justice
3. Wisdom
4. Love
With these attributes, Jehovah has proven that the depth of his knowledge is unsearchable Romans 11:33. Therefore, he chooses to use any of his qualities to carry out his marvelous works. Do not forget that the holy spirit is his ACTIVE FORCE.
The name of God, Jehovah simply means "he causes to become". He can do anything to achieve his purpose. He is not an idol that he cannot speak or act (Psalm 135:15 The idols of the nations are silver and gold, made by human hands. 16 They have mouths, but cannot speak, eyes, but cannot see).

Jehovah chose Jesus as his master worker (1 Peter 1:20). He is a God who likes to engage everyone righteous in his beautiful activities. Think about how he gave Adam the assignment to name all the animals. And he does not do a thing without first, telling about it. What a priceless God!
Talking about telling humans of his WORD before carrying out his actions, the Bible told us outrightly in Hebrews 1:1-2 "Long ago God spoke to our forefathers by means of the prophets on many occasions and in many ways. 2 Now at the end of these days he has spoken to us by means of a Son..."
The Bible clearly states that he used to speak to humans directly, but then lastly, he used his son whom the Bible refers to as the Word. Jehovah is not a dumb God, he can speak for himself if he wants to (You can also compare Jesus illustration in Matthew 21:36-37), but he CHOSE Jesus to be his exact representation. That is partly why Jesus says that Jehovah is in him.

A noteworthy reference to your question is the voice with which he proclaimed the WORD recorded in Luke 9:35 when Jesus was baptized on earth? (Luke 9:35 Then a voice came out of the cloud, saying: “This is my Son, the one who has been chosen. Listen to him).
Remeber that Jesus(word) was on earth at the time when the word came out of heaven. And he could have used that same word to create Jesus.
So, Jehovah can do as he pleases and no one can question him.

Luke 1:35 In answer the angel said to her: “Holy spirit will come upon you, and power of the Most High will overshadow you. And for that reason the one who is born will be called holy, God’s Son
When Jesus said that he watched him and learned from him, you may ask, with what word did he carry out those acts while Jesus was watching or learning by his side?

John 5:30 I cannot do a single thing of my own initiative. Just as I hear, I judge, and my judgment is righteous because I seek, not my own will, but the will of him who sent me
What word did Jesus hear? And, from who?

John 12:49 For I did not speak on my own, but the Father who sent me commanded me to say all that I have spoken.
What word was the command?
You may compare the command to Psalm 33:9 For he spoke, and it came to be; he commanded, and it stood firm.

Brother, Jehovah is the Almighty and there is no one else.
There is no God except him. Isaiah 45:5.

bloodofthelamb:


WITH WHAT DID JEHOVAH PRODUCE JESUS WITH?...BECAUSE, JOHN1:3 SAYS- AND WITH THIS "WORD", GOD{JEHOVAH} CREATED "ALL" THINGS. NOTHING WAS MADE WITHOUT THE "WORD."{CEV TRANS).

NOTE THE WORD "ALL" IF CHRIST JESUS THE WORD WAS CREATED OR PRODUCE THAT WILL ALSO INCLUDE HIM. JEHOVAH NEVER PRODUCED ANYTHING WITHOUT THE WORD.

I didn't see that question. I wasn't mentioned on it.
And your last statement is very disrespectful. I mean, we are here to have a conversation from the Bible and not to throw insults at each other. The Bible says where 2 or 3 are gathered in my name.... So, let us try to keep the conversation virtuous to allow room for divine understanding. We are not here to brag or compete but to reason together from the scriptures.

Now, to throw light on your question.
(DID JEHOVAH GOD CREATED/PRODUCE CHRIST JESUS WITH JESUS?)
Proverbs 8:22 Jehovah produced me as the beginning of his way,
The earliest of his achievements of long ago.

In the above verse, we are given information as to how Jesus came to be. It clearly says that Jesus was created, not through anyone, but by Jehovah himself.
The Bible refers to Jesus as having a beginning. Jesus is the earliest of Jehovah's achievement.

bloodofthelamb:

I ASKED LOVINGJEHOVAH, DID JEHOVAH GOD CREATED/PRODUCE CHRIST JESUS WITH JESUS? SINCE, THE SCRIPTURE SAYS EVERYTHING JEHOVAH GOD MADE/PRODUCE/CREATED WAS THROUGH CHRIST JESUS..

HIM NEVER ANSWER ME... THEY MINISTERS OF DARKNESS PRETENDING TO BE THAT OF LIGHT.

Thanks for your comment, Sir.
I only quoted the scriptures and the scriptures cannot miss anything.
The law written in the Bible was given to Moses. But since you mentioned MELCHIZEDEK, it is worth the reference.
MELCHIZEDEK was the King of ancient Salem and “priest of the Most High God,” Jehovah.
In all implications, it must fall under the line of the priesthood.
Abraham paid his Tithe to a priest and the law of Moses contains instructions to pay the Tithe to the Priests and then the Bible says that Jesus is now our priest (Hebrews 4:14 Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold on to our public declaration of him).
The question is, do you accept Jesus as your priest? If the answer is yes, then pay him what you owe him, which is LOVE. He gave us a new commandment of Love called the law of Christ and the old one given to Moses became invalid when Jesus was nailed to the stake (staurus).

chimmyjay:


sir, I think you are missing something.

TITHING WAS BEFORE MOSES through whom the law came.
It was Abraham who first tithed, one of you said NO LEVITES TO COLLECT TITHES ANY LONGER, but MELCHIZEDEK WASN'T LEVITE and it was him who biblically collected tithes first.

So with these, know you that TITHING EXISTED BEFORE THE LAW, and even if it were so, WAS IT NOT SAID IN THE LAW THOU SHALL NOT KILL , BUT DO YOU as a christian KILL ?? IT WAS SAID IN THE LAW DO NOT COVET, do christians COVET ?.


Please let us who think we stand take heed lest we fall.

Absolutely not! As a matter of fact, we are required to obey the law. But the question is, what law are you obeying? Are you with the law of Moses or the law of Christ?
Jesus came to fulfill the law of Moses that was written down but the law of Christ is now by heart and it is summed up in LOVE.

So, which are you following?

PointZerom:


In that case, obeying the law is not a sin.

They are synonymous in that they portray the same sense. The law contains detail of the commandment. It is an elaborated form of the commandment. In the law, you will find guidelines that fit an actual situation. For example, the commandment says, In Exodus 20:14, Thou shalt not commit adultery. In the law, it says in Exodus 22:16, "If a man seduces a virgin who is not pledged to be married and sleeps with her, he must pay the bride-price, and she shall be his wife.

The Commandment is the sole on which the law stands.

PointZerom:


What's the diff btw Law and commandment?

For a certainty, he came to fulfill the law and he did. It would be a failed mission for Jesus if what he said he came to do wasn't accomplished? When he said, "it is finished" was he lying? I came to fulfill - it is finished - DONE DEAL!! He fulfilled the law by dying on the stake.
If you still believe that the law has not been fulfilled, you make keep it but you must keep it all. Then you are a Jew and not a Christian.
Galatians 3:24 So the Law became our guardian leading to Christ, so that we might be declared righteous through faith. 25 But now that the faith has arrived, we are no longer under a guardian.
So, are you still under the law/guardian?

PointZerom:


Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets:I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Colossians 2:13, 14 ...He kindly forgave us all our trespasses 14 and erased the handwritten document that consisted of decrees and was in opposition to us. He has taken it out of the way by nailing it to the torture stake.

Hebrews 8:13 In his saying “a new covenant,” he has made the former one obsolete...

John 13:34 I am giving you a new commandment

Galatians 6:2 Go on carrying the burdens of one another, and in this way you will fulfill the law of the Christ

The former one was called the law of Moses and in it contains the command to tithe. The new one is the law of the Christ and it contains the command to love. It is no longer by written law but by the heart.

Jesus erased the old law when he died for us. And there are no more Levites to collect any Tithe.

Acts 4:36-37 shows that after Jesus' death the Levites started owning properties which was against the law of Moses. Deuteronomy 18:1 "...the whole tribe of Levi--are to have no allotment or inheritance with Israel. They shall live on the food offerings presented to the LORD, for that is their inheritance.
Acts 4:36 So Joseph, who was also called by the apostles Barʹna·bas+ (which means, when translated, “Son of Comfort”), a Levite, a native of Cyʹprus, 37 owned a piece of land, and he sold it and brought the money and deposited it at the feet of the apostles.

PointZerom:


Pls can you show me a place where you were outrightly advised not to pay tithe in the new covenant.

Yes. We believe in Jesus, who said: “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.” (John 14:6) We have faith that Jesus came to earth from heaven and gave his perfect human life as a ransom sacrifice. (Matthew 20:28) His death and resurrection make it possible for those exercising faith in him to gain everlasting life. (John 3:16) We also believe that Jesus is now ruling as King of God’s heavenly Kingdom, which will soon bring peace to the entire earth. (Revelation 11:15) However, we take Jesus at his word when he said: “The Father is greater than I am.” (John 14:28) So we do not worship Jesus, as we do not believe that he is Almighty God.

Jude 1:18 As for you, beloved ones, call to mind the sayings that have been previously spoken by the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ, 18 how they used to say to you: “In the last time there will be ridiculers, following their own desires for ungodly things.” 19 These are the ones who cause divisions, animalistic men, not having spirituality. 20 But you, beloved ones, build yourselves up on your most holy faith, and pray with holy spirit, 21 in order to keep yourselves in God’s love, while you await the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ with everlasting life in view.

When people are out to make a name for themselves, let them! He can take the win and the trophy. We are not here to prove our viewpoints to anyone but share the Bible's message. We are witnesses of Jehovah and not contenders with ridiculers.
According to him, he is having fun maligning the JW and that is his recent hobby. He is stuck in a particular Bible verse which is the foundation of his faith. He is Catholic and a blasphemer. He is not satisfied with answers that you provide from the scriptures. He simply desires to ridicule people and their faith by using bait questions with no intention to accept the answers provided.

achorladey:

please relate this to your Matthew 28:9
......Now Joseph was the governor of the land, the person who sold grain to all its
people. So when Joseph’s brothers arrived,
they bowed down to him with their faces to
the ground. As soon as Joseph saw his brothers, he recognized them, but he
pretended to be a stranger and spoke
harshly to them. “Where do you come
from?” he asked.
Does bowing down to Joseph made him God automatically, or that he fail to say to his brothers do not bow before me made him a God to be worshipped.
That Jesus was given authority did not make him Jehovah automatically.

Absolutely! It is the Bible's viewpoint.
Tithing is not under the law of Christ. The law of Tithing is now useless or obsolete as the Bible puts it. Anyone asking for Tithe is lost in the law of Moses and he is still under the law. He is a Jew and not a Christian. When you are under the law, you must keep ALL the requirements of the law. If you collect Tithe and do not keep the Sabbath, you are sinning. If you collect Tithe and you are not a Levite, you are sinning. If you collect Tithe and you own a property, you are sinning. If you collect Tithe and you are a Christian, you are sinning. If you collect Tithe, you disown Jesus's ransom sacrifice.
Under the law, Tithe was paid to the Levites. The Levites and their offsprings must not own any property.
So, do you understand what you are paying and how sinful it is?

MightySparrow:




I hope you understand what you're trying to pass across.

Trinitarians quote "I and the father are one". Where is the spot for the holy spirit in "I and the father" (2 persons)?