₦airaland Forum

stillchris:
that first pic with the burning vehicle looks like a civilain jtf. is it?

thise guys should be integrated in the army by now. at least most of them

This is what the civilian jtf probably looks like
Far right with the not so popular rifle

stillchris:
that first pic with the burning vehicle looks like a civilain jtf. is it?

thise guys should be integrated in the army by now. at least most of them

Honestly I have no idea. I just find the picture iconic.

Henry240:
You don't need telling, if you can't any, please don't post. Thank you.

I refuse to conform to your preset definitions and standards, if you cant point out the error, you certainly cannot correct.

Henry240:
If you want to post images in this thread, post proper images. If you cant do this,please don't post any at all. I'm comfortable posting photos alone.

I'm sorry, what is a proper image?

Henry240:
Nigeria COIN/CTCOIN

1st pic, is that a browning?

rugged7:
RUBBISH!

What sort of human replies someone with "RUBBISH"
Have a great day

agaugust:
That's you own long story discussion above. How does that follow the rules of this photo thread?

If Augustine writes long story about AMISOM vs Al Shabbab, you call it derailment and should be banned.

EVERYBODY here writes long story when it suits them, including irrelevant Syrian war and Russia Vs NATO analysis and discussions. You think I am blind and don't see all those derailments? I see them and just mind my own business. I do not own Nairaland.

Looks like it's wrong when Augustine does things, it's right when others do the same thing here. You guys have a conscience I guess.

To keep this thread clean, everybody should agree to stop ALL discussions. Post photo, name the picture, full stop. That is the only solution. Stop picking on me, WE ARE ALL GUILTY, EVERYBODY HERE IS GUILTY.

You are neither giving analysis or making decent contributions 80% of the time. Your post always reeks of hatred and disdain towards the South Africans, thereby attracting retorts in similar manner from them, and the cycle keeps going. I honestly don't care if you post Syrian or Middle East related issues here, just be civil.

Panzerfaust:
NDA; toughest military academy in the world!

Hahahahahahahaha

stillchris:
I'm seriously waiting for this movie to be released. The preview is mad

Go and see 13hours by Micheal Bay

realnas:
bro is that an american humvee or the chinese knock off?

Definitely not American. The grille is a dead giveaway

Now I know some of y'all are gonna be mad at this post. but let's try and let of steam for once.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8mibXf1yus

kikuyu1:
Dude,you haven't understood the issue.
https://blog.westernpowders.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/natorounds72.jpg

Which one will do the most damage? You can't compare the 2 cartridges! Anyone taking a solid 7.62 nato hit within 600 m just flops around on the ground bleeding out-which is why the Rhodies used to call killing Zanu/Zipra freedom fighters 'slotting floppies.' Btw it also kills by the hydrostatic shock of the round destroying blood cell walls.

Even the SAS is dropping the 5.56mm! Like all light infantries and commandos they engage much closer than regular infantry.

You are not understanding mine either.
I'm giving you reasons why tavors should continue with Nigerian navy elite sbs.

Besides all these talk about ammo caliber you seem to forget that you still need a decent round placement, I still maintain that as long as you intend killing human targets 556 is OK.

Nigerian cops are a peculiar subset of dumb.

DaV8King:
Just guessing but it looks like the BM-21 Grad to me

Tornado-G 122mm MRLS

The Nigerian problem is so peculiar, it's like corruption is trying to eat her citizens alive.
Corrupt practices should attract death penalties.

africaken254:
the russians even favored an even smaller round,5.45×39 mm .7.62 is good for sniping but for close quarter combat i would prefer 5.56

Brilliant post.

kikuyu1:
People are fascinated by the bullpup design not knowing how under powered the 5.56 mm cartridge is! In fact US specops operating in Afpak are known to ditch their M4s for 7.62 mm Paki army G3s.

Brethren it's about choice, 5.56 is just as effective as 7.62 as long as you are shooting human targets.

Tavors can also fire a 300blk.

africaken254:
algeria gendarmerie armed vehicle after an ambush

Good lord!
It's 5:36am, I had no plans for church today but I've changed my mind. Things can really go from bad to hell

patches689:
Buying a T90 in 2016 is a bad idea

If you are a country like Algeria or India and your orders are well over 200... yeah, then it does because of the costs involved. And because countries like Algeria/India replace their MBT fleet every 20 or so years.

But for Nigeria who's order will likely be 100 or less?

T90 is pushing obsolescence, the latest Russian upgrade programe is slated to be the last and has squeezed every single gram of capablity out of it. That means it will steadily be dating from now on.

There are many, many tanks out there that are just as good, but cheaper or just outright better.

Korea is about to have excess K1's (best option IMO), Ukrain is ramping up Oplot production and should soon be able to deliver more than 5 a year, Turkey has a couple hundred Leo 1's that are about to be available... poland has about 400 T-72's that can all be upgraded to "twardy" status for export and finally India has hundreds of Ajeya-M2 that will be available once Arjun production commences*

And those are just tanks that can be bought on the cheap.

Its a simple question of:

- Cheap tank for immediate use

- Long term aquisition for a dynasty platform

T90 fills neither of those two categories.

*yes, I am aware than a couple of these are just fancy T-72s

It doesn't have to be a T90.

Henry240:
My response was, they are neither old or obsolete for our current threats. We cannot be planning for the future, when we've channeled our resources to deal with the present.


For this Boko-Haram type threat, they are appropriate.

Cash strapped it is.
I'm buying the upgrade story the army is selling about the vickers, but my concern is what exactly are the upgrades, because from the news excerpt I didn't hear nothing on amour, which is the major short fall

Henry240:
Hence the upgraded ones we saw in the video.


Our current threats haven't evolved beyond our capabilities, over the past 6 years we've been able to contain the threat to Borno state, pushing the threat from 12 states to 1.

I'm sure you've seen the war zones of Turkey and Russia, despite fielding top of the line MBTs(equipment), threats especially in Turkey have escalated.


My point is, before replacements are found Nigerian Vickers are well equipped to deal with our current threats as long as they are serviceable. The machine is just a tool, it is the man that wins the war.

Valid
But we really can't tell what's current threat when dealing with insurgents of this calibre.
Tomorrow you could roll into battle and find out you are getting plucked like low hanging fruits with patches689 proverbial Chinese ATGM, that's gonna suck.
This insurgency should have thought us one thing which is never to learn the hard way.

Henry240:
Nigeria currently faces no requirement that would have us purchase Tanks like the T-90 in the "interim", the T-90 would always be long term. what we need is to be able to deploy the full spectrum of assets we have, and in their most effective capabilities.


The N.E and Gaza are not the same. When making comparisons you take into account the political realities of each individual environment, on an individual basis.

Its a good tank, patches689 has put in some pros of it for me to better appreciate it, but I would be lying if i say key components are not obsolete. Remember my first post was about it being a crematorium, which it currently really is.

Henry240:
You don't throw away MBTs which were last delivered in the 90s. No army does that, cash strapped or not.

Military hardwares don't upgrade themselves, you don't take delivery since 90s and start sipping tea, while threats have steadily been evolving and would continue to evolve beyond your capabilities, that's why stuffs become obsolete. In this case the amour really is.
We really can't throw away 200+ MBTs even though certain components have become moribund, somebody needs to start thinking how to either upgrade the vickers to a low cost and acceptable modern contemporary mbt alternative or getting a fresh T90 and fast.

patches689:
Funny but sad though

Look at how American gear in Saudi hands fared in Yemen.

People often forget that things are designed to be used a certain way. When you dont use it that way, its near useless.

American gear is designed for shock and awe combined-arms high mobility operations... not sit on a hill and wait for some guy in a turban to knock you out with a cheap chinese ATGM

Russian gear is designed to be cheap to build, cheap to operate and used in huge numbers... not seiging some syrian town and waiting for some guy in a turban to knock you out with a cheap chinese ATGM.

But Isreal, they design their gear for that kind of fighting.

Just one example is that the Merkava 4 has the thickest roof armor of any MBT because they got tired of being knocked out by RPG's fired from high buildings. Or the Namer's pre-decessor the IDF Achzarit which was created when Isreal realized (in Lebanon) that they need a heavy APC to move troops around in built up areas with lots of ATGM's.

You forgot to add American tech Cost shieet tons of money to field and operate.
www.nairaland.com/attachments/3268839_x3_jpeg867ab08405bcb1840afe2d75fafd4b78

www.nairaland.com/attachments/3269194_facebook20160107192132_jpegeb8d1c89ba5b4eabd2dbb7685495969a

patches689:
Well unless you get your hands on a latest gen western Isrealy gear you are fvcked because they are the only army on earth designed to fight in an environment like that.

F#*k you for making me laugh this hard.

patches689:
You are asking what nigeria will do if the NE has a popultion density increase of like 200% and undergoes massive urbanization and serious topographical changes?

Scratch that I mean Hamas styled frontline, la fireworks

patches689:
So its a trade off:

Eagle Tank:

-you have lots of them
- very versatile main gun
- FCS is about as good or better than most of your T-72's
- carries more on-board ammo than a T72

#ReleaseTheEagleTank

Which is my only plus, cash strapped Nigeria can't throw away all those mbts.

Henry240:
The Vickers armour isn't obsolete for it's current engagement. The priority would be to give the tank night fighting capabilities.


The current upgrade we are currently seeing is the most suitable trajectory, while a proper replacement is sought.

Ok
I guess you are still dwelling on the now. I like to see matters from the angle that they have escalated or would escalate regardless of current engagement.
That way I'm prepared.
Let's say the north east turns into a Gaza strip overnight, would you still support the current posture?

Henry240:
Nigerian Vickers are the MK3 version. They are not old or obsolete, with the last set delivered to the Nigerian Army in the 90s. A good number of the later deliveries also had modern FCS.


What i agree with you is armour upgrade. Armour upgrade, NVGs and improved FCS across the fleet ( we've started with the ones shown in the video), we should extend the upgrade to the rest of the fleet.

I clearly stated that the amour is obsolete, the odds would not play in Favour of it againt existing and emerging threats.
Upgrading should be a last resort, if not get more T72s and T90s, that should keep us above the water for some years to come.

patches689:
From what I have read, it is rated against 30mm all round and RPG's on the front glacis.

Thats all you really need against BH.

Yeah you're correct
But,
I've seen a 105mm howitzer mounted on a truck chasis used by bh for maybe direct fire role.
I'm not so sure the vickers can take three to four RPG hits like a boss on the side.

patches689:
Nothing wrong with the Eagle Mk3

It is certainly better than the T-55's you have, and unlike the T-72s you guys bought it can fire HESH which is IMO the best round for these kind of wars.

While the 105mm is not a disadvantage since you arent planning on fighting any tanks!

I hope to see Nigeria modernize the Vickers fleet. They are quality tanks, with lots of room for growth. It would be a shame to see them go into permanent storage when this is over.

Well
Fire power doesn't equate armour, which is in relation to my post. Good gun great rounds, but it's armour is obsolete.
There is a reason Nigeria had 200+ of the vickers but opted for T72, to prosecute the war