₦airaland Forum

Perfectbeing:
Great write up. But I must ask you my question too. Who created the world?

God the father created the World through the Son.

Hebrew 1:1-2 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,

2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

Here are more reference
1 Cor 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

All is 'of' the father and all is 'by' the son

John 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

It is not space science.

Shalom!

Shelumiel:
I asked you a question and you throwing answers that has no link to the question asked . This is laughable , as it shows that you are willing to delude yourself in your own illusions . Now , you are quoting a reported speech that did not come from Jesus Himself , but from those who gave their narrative from what they felt ( at that time ) was who Jesus was. The verse I quoted (John 14:9) are the explicit words of Jesus(because Jesus knew Himself better than anyone else ). That is , Him explaining Himself plainly to His disciples . It is only through the words of Jesus that we can establish who He really is .

Do you really listen to yourself and see how hypocritical you sound right now. You have been misquoting the bible since to support your false trinity doctrine. And all of a sudden the same bible verses I am quoting for you have lost their credence because it's not direct word from Jesus? Wow!

Can you show me where Jesus directly or explicitly said he is God the father?

If John 14:9 is Jesus explicit words how about John 14:10-11 I quoted to explain it?

How about John 10:36 where Jesus himself confirms to the Jews that he is the Son of God?

I ask you again, show me any explicit verse from Jesus saying he is God the father?

Shelumiel:
Throughout the four gospels ( Matthew, Mark , Luke and John ), Jesus keeps talking about His Father . He talks so much about His Father , that one of His disciples (Philip ) is bold enough to to ask Jesus to show him the Father of whom He has spoken so much of . But what did Jesus say to him? Let us hear from the lips of Jesus : " Have I been with you so long , and yet you have not known Me , Philip? He who has seen me has SEEN the Father ; so how can you say ,' Show us the Father '?" (John 14:9). Now a question for you : if Jesus is not the Father(according to you ) , then why didn't He present the Father to the disciples ?

Nice question. We are beginning to head somewhere.

The bible has made us to understand that No one has in anytime seen God the father:

John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

Hebrew 1:2-3
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

Col 1:15 "Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:"

2 Cor 4:4 In their case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

What you should understand is that one of the main purpose of christ coming was to make the father known to us, that is to declare him unto man. Jesus took all what is of his father and showed or made it known to us. Everything is of the father. The proceeding verse of that John 14:9 you quoted even explained it more better and clearly by saying "Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works."

11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works 'sake." John 14:10-11

The bible also said that it pleased God the father to dwell in Christ fully

Col 1:19 "For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;"

Seeing Jesus is seeing God the father, this is the reason why Jesus said "He who has seen me has SEEN the Father"

Remember the father sent the son, Jesus did not send himself. He did nothing of his own accord but the will of the father who sent him.

Now let's go by your notion that says Jesus is the same person as the Father Yahweh...
can you kindly answer the question you asked earlier about who were the "us" in Genesis 1?

If in fact Jesus is Yahweh the father then your trinity doctrine will be left with one party missing out of the three as one logic. It will be Jesus or Yahweh and the Holy Spirit.

So who are the "Us" in Genesis 1?

Shelumiel:
Bros, the Jews did not misinterpreted anything , why? Because they were very, very monotheistic ; and Jesus who claimed to be one with their God was violating that monotheistic belief of one God. And secondly , why would Jesus make such a provocative statement if He wasn't sure about Himself ? If Jesus was not God , he would not have uttered such ; He would have apologized immediately or corrected the notion that He was not God . But as it is, He did not hold His words back .

You are still in the same misconception.

Kindly replace "God" with "Yahweh" wherever it appears in your comment above and you will see your misconception.

You don't seem to apply the Word God correctly to it through meaning when parallel verses are drawn concerning God the father and Jesus the Son.

The Jewish creed or Shema as popularly called remains Dec. 6:4 "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:"

Or better yet "Hear O Israel: Yahweh our God is one Yahweh"

So the Jews were very well conversant with their monotheistic believe that hearing Jesus say "i and my Father are one" sounds strange and heretic to them. But this is what Jesus said again:

John 10:34:36
34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

So you can see that Jesus is the Son of God the father. Just like it was revealed to Peter by the father in heaven that Jesus is the Son of God.

John the Baptist, bear this witness saying John 1:32-34

32 And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him.

33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.

34 And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.

Nathanael bears witness again John 1:49 Nathanael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel.

Matthew 17:5 "While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him."

I can go on and on..

Shelumiel

Yes Jesus is YAHWEH and the Jews wanted to stone Him for making this claim . Hear His words:"

Jesus did not say he is Yahweh the father, easy with the false accusation of Jesus Oga!
You are not different from the Jews who misunderstood him.

Just before that very John 10:30 you quoted
Jesus said in John 10:29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

I and the Father are one.”

May be this verse will make you understand what he meant by 'one' with the father.

John 17:21-23
That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one ; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

I believe these verses are not in anyway saying that Jesus disciples and his followers are the same as the person of Yahweh?

Again his Jewish opponents picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus said to them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?”
“We are not stoning you for any good work,” they replied, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.”

It is clear that the Jews misunderstood Jesus which was the reason for them to want to stone Him. He only said he is the Son of God the father, and you should notice him use the word 'father' in replying them. The Jews don't believe in God to beget, it's like a heresy to them. It's new and strange to them. So for someone to be Son of God to them meant the person claimed to be God.

From this scripture ,it clear that Jesus is God .And anyone who does not agree with this , does not agree with what Jesus said about Himself. Period

Your misconception is still the same through out.

Is Jesus God? Yes
Is Jesus God the father? No
Does Jesus have a God above him? Yes

Yahweh the father is all in all, Greater than all and God to all. There is none like him.

alBHAGDADI:
What you wrote is exactly the same as Jehovah's witnesses false doctrine.

What don't you understand? I can as well accuse you of holding Catholic false Trinity doctrine as well. Show me where you have problem with my post? And by the grace of God I will explain.

Shelumiel:
Please read my previous post .

Sure I will

Shelumiel:
I leave you with this word :"so that, 'They may look and look, yet not see; they may listen and listen, yet not understand. For if they did, they would turn to God, and he would forgive them."(Mark 4:12). Shalom

Lol...very ironic hun! For you to quote that verse.

Jesus said the father is greater than I, you said no Jesus is actually the father.

You are yet to convince anyone about your trinity fallacy..Jesus did not teach this, his apostles neither taught anyone this fallacy.

I will keep pointing out your misconception concerning this topic, a little busy right now in the office.

Shelumiel:
Another question to for you : If the Trinity is a fallacy , they why did God use the word "Us" in Genesis 1:26 and Genesis 11:7? Who are the "Us" ?

That is a question you should answer...because you claim Yahweh is Jesus here are your words

but Jesus has these qualities so He is that God ; that God that Abraham unknowingly serve with the mindset of calling YAH.

And remember you are yet to fix the holy spirit somewhere in your trinity argument yet.

OneJ:
Shelumiel, bawoni , kedu ?

Pls think about these statements critically....

.
"The son (child) of Lion (his father) is a Lion (that is, the son is like his father, Lion. ).

In the same manner, (Jesus) the son of God is a God (that is, Jesus is like his Father,Almighty God).
In summary, the child of God is not God . Likewise, the son of God is not God
Jesus can never be ,& is not the Almighty God, his Father.

Shelumiel, U (the daughter) are like your mom/dad, therefore, U are within your rights to bear their name (off course with their permission).
U can not be your mom/dad but U are like them( that is, U have their traits,qualities, looks etc)

This thing no be rocket science.

I hope U fully grasp the meaning of these written statements U read.
Shalom

He/she still will not grasp, the Trinity doctrine is a false stronghold on those who believe it.

3 person one God, and the argument of the holy spirit does not even begin to add up yet. Smh for them.

Shelumiel:
What is the quality of God? And what are the qualities of God that makes Jesus God ? Let us turn to the scriptures and see: 1. Jesus has the power to forgive sins(Mark2 :5-11). According to scripture , it is only God that has the power to forgive sins (Isaiah 43:25). So does Jesus qualify to be called God ? Yes ! 2. Jesus has the power over life and death (John5:21). God who created Adam , breathe into his nostrils the breathe of life and He has the power to take it . So does Jesus qualify to be called God ? Yes . 3. Jesús will come to rule and judge the world (Matthew 16:27). In Psalms 7:11 we are told that God is a just judge , who is angry with the wicked everyday . And we are told in another scripture that God rules over the affairs of men . So does this Jesus qualify to be called God? Yes . Jesus is eternal; He existed before time (John 8:58 and John 1:1-5). It is only God who is eternal ( abi, God get origin ?). Look , I can quote scripture upon scripture to support not just the divinity of Jesus, but His identity as God Almighty .

Jesus is sitting at the right hand of God the father in heaven.

Jesus is not the same person as the father..if you like quote the whole bible.

It is clear that God put Jesus in the position he is.

Shelumiel:
How can you say that Jesus is called God but He is not God ? That is like saying a person who flies an aeroplane is not called a pilot !

Show me where I said he is not God?

Jesus is not Yahweh. Make sure you understand my point before quoting me.

Even Yahweh the Father is God to Jesus

Shelumiel:
I just ask you a question ; kindly answer .

First Jesus is called God no doubt

Hebrew 1:8 "But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

Was he worshipped? Yes

Hebrew 1:6 "And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him."

Who appointed him into receiving all this? God

Hebrew 1:1-2
1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,

2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

With all of this, is Jesus equal to God the father who made him heir over all things? No

1 Cor. 15:24-28
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

27 For he hath put all things under his feet. [/b]But when he saith all things are put under him,[b] it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.

28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

Please read more slowly this time to grasp.

Shelumiel:
You know, it is hard convincing people like you who want to believe in their own propaganda. The Bible in John 3:16 says that God has a Son, abi? . But if we refer back to the beginning of John(1:1-9), we are given a revelation regarding His true identity : He is God, He is the word of God and He became mortal to redeem man from perdition .

At what point does Jesus became the Son and no longer God?

Shelumiel:
If Jesus is not God then why , is it that God and Jesus are being worshiped in revelations 5:13-14 ? Why please ? Or have you forgotten that God said he will never share his glory with another (Isaiah42:? Why will God share His worship and glory with another, who you feel is lesser than Him? Reply

Is as if you did not read the comment you quoted, you shouldn't have been asking this question again. The bible also said Jacob wrestle with God I guess you think he really did wrestle with God right?

Yet Jesus said "the father is greater than i"
Yet Jesus said "..my father your father, my God your God"

Shelumiel:
Jesús said " of my own I cannot do anything ..."(John5:30). This means that what the Father was thinking , that was what Jesus was doing . So they are same in mind , thought and action; this is equivalent to what is written in John 1:1-9, because it stresses that the Word of God(Jesus ) and God Himself are the same thing ; no difference . To buttress my point , turn to the book of Titus 2:13. It says " looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ ". I have come to understand something about the Bible : revelation regarding the mystery of Jesus was not given equally to all the disciples, which is why Peter called Him the son of God, and John(who was the beloved of Jesus ) called Him God .

Looks like the point I am trying to make has eluded you. God the father is greater than Jesus.

The Word "God" as known to us has not been restricted to the father alone but have been used in place of the father and the Son many times in the scripture, this does not mean that Yahweh who is the Father is the same person as Jesus the Son. I mean Come on! the bible says the father beget the Son, the Father sent the Son, the father is greater than the Son. This has always been the truth.

Shelumiel:
Let me ask you a question : if Jesus is not God then why did He allow people, demons heavenly hosts and angels to worship Him?

You getting it all wrong again...

First Jesus is called God no doubt

Hebrew 1:8 "But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

Was he worshipped? Yes

Hebrew 1:6 "And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him."

Who appointed him into receiving all this? God

Hebrew 1:1-2
1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,

2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

With all of this, is Jesus equal to God the father who made him heir over all things? No

1 Cor. 15:24-28
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

27 For he hath put all things under his feet. [/b]But when he saith all things are put under him,[b] it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.

28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

Please read slowly to grasp.

Shelumiel:
God is ONE but God has three personalities - God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. And all these three personalities have different functions to perform but they are the same one God just as we have Soul, Mind and Body. In Colossians2:9 , Paul said "for in Him (Jesus) dwells all the fullness of the Godhead ." This certifies that Jesus is not the son of God , but God Himself . Shalom

At the first bold , can you show me where Jesus is or was called "God the Son"? Feel free to use any bible version.

At second bold, should I believe you or what the bible says?
Even The Sunday school most popular memory verse John 3:16 had revealed your lies.

Let God be true and every man a liar.

Selah!

johnw47:
duh, john 1:1 says God and the word is God, that's fairly equal




no i think the word and the Father is God,
you sure have little understanding of things said



oh duh again, no the son is not the Father, duh




i already know that mighty God and Almighty God is the same God-Yahovah, and not two gods




you keep showing your confusion and lack of understanding

Joh_14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Jesus and Father are seperate persons, and one God, i know you cannot understand that and never will without the Holy Spirit which you also don't know is God

and of course "we" and "our" refers to Jesus and Father, oh duh, i'll have to think of another word than "duh" just for you
your confusion and lack of understanding and twisting everything is amazing abominable






yeah ok you haven't a clue, you have wrote a long post on things you think were said, and other confused things from your head, of course i haven't replied to most of your confused post

You sound pained.

Thank you, I think I've said enough

Shalom aleikhem!

[quote author=pressplay411 post=69616583][ author=Maamin post=69600527]

The Mystery of Godliness is manifested unto us already. Whereby we now know the Father through his Son.



Jesus did not lie when he said that he is the SON OF GOD. The Jews wanted to stone Him because they misunderstood him. Also because they are receiving new message that they were not accustom to, something the former prophets did not or can not claim. That was why he went ahead and told them "even ye are gods"



I strongly disagree with the bold here please. God the Father is not Jesus the Son of God. Neither did he(Jesus) claimed to be the father. But he came to make the father known to us John 17:3



Yes! Jesus is the image of the invisible God the father,he was not in any way saying that he is God the father but rather telling his disciples that seeing him is a revelation of who God his father/their father is.



Good! Through which means is God the father in the Son? Through the power of his holy spirit. Same way through the power of the holy spirit the father and the Son dwells in us. 1 John 4:13 "Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit." I will like you start from verse 1 of that 1 John chapter 4. the father dwell in us too as we dwell in him this does not make us God the father right?





John 17:21-23

21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

23 [b]I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; [/b]and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

You see that the meaning you are trying to read into that verse is not what it says..cause if we go by your own meaning that means we also are God the father since you made Jesus to be God the father through that verse.

Shalom aleikhem!

Once again, your knowledge is amazing. You remind me of Apollos, the disciple.

We're all gods, yes. But Christ was God.
Just like we're all sons of God, but only Jesus Christ is a one of a kind Son of God.

That is where your misunderstanding lies...that is thinking God and god have greater and lesser meaning apart from being a title of supreme entity or being.

Is just like saying the Word "Teacher" or "teacher" have more greater and lesser impact or meaning if applied to person apart from being a noun that it is it carrying the same meaning.

Seeing Christ as just the Son of God is ok. But it comes with its limitation. When you begin to see Him in His Fullness as God, you will attain a new depth of intimacy with the Holyspirit.

Rom.9.5 - of whom are the fathers and from whom, according to the flesh, Christ came, who is over all, the eternally blessed God. Amen.

Nice.. you getting to understand me. Well I don't know what version you quoted from but here is the same verse from Romans 9 starting from verse 1.(KJV)

1 I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost,

2 That I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart.

3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:

4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;

5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.

1Tim.3.16 - And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh, Justified in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Preached among the Gentiles, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory.

I really don't know what your understanding concerning this verse is but:
BELOW IS AN EXPLANATION OF THE VERSE 1 TIMOTHY 3:16 BASED ON SCRIPTURES. So what does it mean " vindicated in spirit" and " manifest in the flesh"mean? And what are the benefits to mankind?.

*MANIFEST IN THE FLESH Jesus, who was “the Word” of God, “out of heaven,” divested himself of spirit nature and “became flesh.” ( 1Cor. 15:47; Phil. 2:5-8; John 1:14; ) That in being born as a human he was no spirit and that he did not merely assume a fleshly body, as angels had done in the past (Ge 18:1-3; 19:1; Jos 5:13-15), is attested to by the apostle John, who says that one is antichrist who denies that Jesus Christ came “in the flesh.” (1John 4:2, 3) In order to provide the ransom for mankind and thereby to help those who would be his associates in the heavenly calling, the Word became flesh, being born all human, no incarnation. The Bible tells us this: “Since the ‘young children’ are sharers of blood and flesh, he also similarly partook of the same things.” (Heb. 2:14-16) His earthly sojourn was spoken of as “the days of his flesh.” (Heb 5:7) “The bread that I shall give is my flesh in behalf of the life of the world,” Jesus said. He went on to state that those hoping to remain in union with him must ‘eat his flesh and drink his blood.’ Not appreciating the spiritual, symbolic significance of his words, some construed the statement as cannibalistic and were shocked.—Joh 6:50-60.

VINDICATED IN SPIRIT God’s Son. God’s “only-begotten son,” the Word, was a spirit person like his Father, hence “existing in God’s form” (Php 2:5-, but later “became flesh,” residing among mankind as the man Jesus. (John 1, 14) Completing his earthly course, he was “put to death in the flesh, but [was] made alive in the spirit.” ( 1 Tim 3:16, 1Pe 3:18) His Father resurrected him, granted his Son’s request to be glorified alongside the Father with the glory he had had in his prehuman state (Joh 17:4, 5), and God made him “a life-giving spirit.” (1Co 15:45) The Son thus became again invisible to human sight, dwelling “in unapproachable light, whom not one of men has seen or can see.”—1Ti 6:14-16.

DECLARED RIGHTEOUS AND RAISED AS A SPIRIT BEING IN HEAVENS Adam was created by God as a man-flesh and was righteous, but he failed, he did not set a perfect example of godly devotion. Jesus was conceived by holy spirit born of a woman was also a man-flesh. (John 1:14New International Version (NIV)" The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth." Jesus was righteous to the end and so He was resurrected as a spirit being in heavens.Thus, Jesus was “a corresponding ransom,” not for the redemption of the one sinner, Adam, but for the redemption of all mankind descended from Adam.

This is very comprehensive

Please I urge you not to respond to this but open yourself for the leading of the Holyspirit.
If you can, pls pray in tongues to receive revelation and unveiling.

Peace and Grace to you

.

Amen and to you too

johnw47

you will never stop lying, show one verse that i have twisted oh false accuser
i gave a verse showing the Word is equal to the Father
here it is for third time:
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

How funny the way you accuse me and in turn claim the victim.
John 1:1 did not mentioned any 'coequality' or 'equality'. Stop taking it out of context.

Take this example : In the beginning was John, and John was with HUMAN, and John was HUMAN.

Does that in anyway saying that John is coequal with the human he is with? No!

Is John Human? Yes, is he with another Human? Yes. This we are certain of.

now where are your verses showing that the Word is not God?

Like I said it is funny how you accuse me and claim the victim. You might want to go back through our conversation and point out to me where I denied the Word being God. The word being God does not make him coequal to the father.

Please be really sure to understand my position before quoting me. God or god, it does not really matter cause the English translation of the scripture made this separation to identify which God is been referred to in the Bible when ever the Word is mentioned.

the Father said to Jesus "O God", and you false jw say any entity can assume this title
typical false jw blasphemy

Once again i am not JW just in case you think I am, you can look for one and take your grievances to him/her.

You are human your father is human. Now if your father called you O human does that make you coequal in everything that your father is?

God is God and the Word, and like i said you do not know who God is

Really, and you that know him, are really doing a bad work in presenting him.

Jehovah:
Psa 102:25 Of old hast thou laid the foundation of the earth: and the heavens are the work of thy hands.
Jesus:
Heb 1:10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:

Jehovah:
Isa 45:22 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.
Jesus:
Act 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

And this is all that makes you think Jesus is the same person as the Father hun?

John 17:1-11

1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:

2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.

7 Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee.

8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I[b] came out from thee[/b], and they have believed that thou didst send me.

9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.

10 And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.

11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

Everything Jesus is was made possible by the father. Their relationship is one in bringing redemption to mankind. Jesus is not the same person as the Father. Selah!

you say you are not a false jw but you believe like false jw believe, yeah sure keep fooling someone

Lol I don't believe like they do, now if I accused you of being a Catholic because you believe like they do you will cry foul. Whatever makes you sleep well anyways.

mighty God and Almighty God are the same God-Yahovah, not two gods like you believe

You might want to go and learn the difference between MIGHTY and ALMIGHTY first from you dictionary.

Gen_17:1 And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.

Psa 50:1 A Psalm of Asaph. The mighty God, even the LORD, hath spoken, and called the earth from the rising of the sun unto the going down thereof.

Oh yes! Those verses are all correct about YAHWEH

The Word 'mighty' is not restricted to Christ alone, there are even 'mighty men of renown' in the bible but almighty is no other than Yahweh himself .

three persons one God,
you cannot stop twisting which is lying, and which you do all through your posts

Here you are accusing me again..

of course the Holy Spirit comes from God the Father,
and yet you say God the Father is not the Holy Spirit but "a" holy spirit,
the Word being God is also the Holy Spirit

Wow you sure know how to read your selfish meaning into my comment. Your trinity doctrine says three persons in coequal trinunity isn't it? While me on the other hand says one God from which the Word and Spirit comes from or proceeds. Here is my quote

yes the father is a spirit and he is holy, is he not a holy spirit? I am not the one changing God's word here but you. The holy spirit as u know it is of God, it comes from God the father. Same way as Jesus is of God, came from God the father.

I hope you understand it this time.

Joh_14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Oh great!...now you believe they are separate entities taking a plural form of the pronoun as 'WE' and 'OUR'. Later you will come back to make Yahweh the same person as Jesus the Son.

from false jw i take no false thing
of course the Holt Spirit is God's power, it is His Love also, you obviously have not experienced Him inside you, it is everything He is because the Holy Spirit is He, is God

OK

2Co 3:17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
^^^ so very clear
Psa 139:7 Where can I go to get away from your Spirit? Where can I run to get away from you?
Psa 139:8 If I go up to heaven, you are there. If I make my bed in hell, you are there.
^^^ david praying to God say's: where shall i get away from your Spirit, where can i get away from you,
God is omnipresent, His spirit is everywhere
Jer 23:24 Can any hide himself in secret places that I shall not see him? saith the LORD. Do not I fill heaven and earth? saith the LORD.

very clear except for the blinded

2Co_4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Only if you had meditated on those verses to see that holy spirit is not another third person in trinity. #sighs!

Well done

"I bow my knees to the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, from whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named" Ephesians 3:14-15

Selah!

Shelumiel:
Please read 1Timothy 3:16. You see that Jesus is 100 percent God .

Yes but he is not coequal with his father.

1 Cor. 15:28, John 14:28

johnw47

yes there you have given me error , i gave explanation of phil and john verses because you don't understand them, i also gave verse showing that the Word is equal to God:
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
try not twisting which is lying

The Word is not equal to the father St least the Word came from the father. That is enough.

I did not twist anything but you on the other hand is the one twisting and turning up verses to mean what it did not say.

Here again..
Did Phil.2:6 says Jesus is equal to the father? No!

Did John 14:28 says the father is greater than Jesus? Yes!

if you had eyes to see you would see that the Son is God even to the Father:
Heb_1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

Lol..the word God is a title right? Any entity can assume this title but unto us there is but one and only true God, The father and he is forever God to the Son, the Son worshipped the father but the Father never worshipped the Son at any point. May God's word be forever settled. Amen!

You are a human and your father is human too, but your father is greater than you in every other aspect of existence. It us that simple

i know who, not what the Holy spirit is, you say the Holy spirit is "a what"
you say the word is "a god", you say Jehovah is the Father only, when Jehovah is God
the Father and the Word, in other words you do not know God in the least

I see that you are having problem with my use of 'what' and 'a' but no problem. Remember that the name Yahweh is said to be derived from a self existing word Eheyeh asher Eheyeh. Translated into I am who I am or I will be what I will be. Do you also have problem with "what" God says he will be?

Here is Jesus referred to as "holy thing" in this kjv verse
Like 1:35 "And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God."

false jw have two god's, father a almighty god and son a mighty god

Just in case you think am a JW, well am not. The Father made the Son a Mighty God. He wills as he pleases. No ambiguity.

you say Father is "a holy spirit" just like you say the Word is "a god"
but God's word only speaks of one Holy Spirit, same as it talks of only one true God
however you don't believe God's word and change what it says

I am not the one making three persons to be one person here, yes the father is a spirit and he is holy is he not a holy spirit? I am not the one changing God's word here but you. The holy spirit as u know it is of God, it comes from God the father. Same way as Jesus is of God, came from God the father.

there are many verses showing that the Holy spirit is a person and not just God's power
you post verses showing that you think say the Holy spirit is not a person,
is not God
and i will post verses showing that the Holy Spirit is a person, is God

You might want to start posting the verses that says Holy spirit is a person as in image of the invisible God just like Jesus is manifest in the flesh then I might take you serious on this topic.

The holy spirit is the power of the highest take it or leave it.
Luke 1:35 "And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy spirit shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God."

pressplay411

Ok sir. I admire your knowledge.
I try as much as possible to avoid arguments about the gospel, especially on issues bordering on Trinity because it is a mystery beyond us all. But I will like to share more clarity of my understanding so far.

The Mystery of Godliness is manifested unto us already. Whereby we now know the Father through his Son.

Our Lord, Jesus Christ told the Jewish teachers that He was the Son of God, yet they wanted to stone Him. If He had told them He was also God, what do you think would have happened?

Jesus did not lie when he said that he is the SON OF GOD. The Jews wanted to stone Him because they misunderstood him. Also because they are receiving new message that they were not accustom to, something the former prophets did not or can not claim. That was why he went ahead and told them "even ye are gods"

But to His disciples, He later shared more details due to their intimacy which is what we also enjoy when we have intimacy with the Holyspirit. He gives us deeper access to Divine mysteries.
Jesus identified Himself as both the Son and the Father in very few instances, one of such is in His reply to Philip below.

I strongly disagree with the bold here please. God the Father is not Jesus the Son of God. Neither did he(Jesus) claimed to be the father. But he came to make the father known to us John 17:3

John.14.9 - Jesus said to him, "Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, "Show us the Father'?

Yes! Jesus is the image of the invisible God the father,he was not in any way saying that he is God the father but rather telling his disciples that seeing him is a revelation of who God his father/their father is.

John.14.10 - Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works.

Good! Through which means is God the father in the Son? Through the power of his holy spirit. Same way through the power of the holy spirit the father and the Son dwells in us. 1 John 4:13 "Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit." I will like you start from verse 1 of that 1 John chapter 4. the father dwell in us too as we dwell in him this does not make us God the father right?

John.14.11 - Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in Me, or else believe Me for the sake of the works themselves.

John 17:21-23

21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

23 [b]I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; [/b]and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

You see that the meaning you are trying to read into that verse is not what it says..cause if we go by your own meaning that means we also are God the father since you made Jesus to be God the father through that verse.

Shalom aleikhem!

johnw47

so you believe john 14:28 makes php 2:6 to be untrue

Father(God) is greater than Jesus(flesh), whereas Father(God) is equal to the Word(God)
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

None of the verses are wrong, but only triniterians that are reading their man made doctrine into it.

Did Phil.2:6 says Jesus is equal to the father? No!

Did John 14:28 says the father is greater than Jesus? Yes!

There you have it

once again you think one scripture shows another to be wrong
the Holy Spirit is not just God's power but is God Himself
even the verse you posted says "God is all in all", you would have it say God's power is all in all

peter told anainas that lying to the Holy Spirit is not lying to man but to God,
you say lying to the holy Spirit is lying to God's power

ask and i will post verses showing that the Holy Spirit is God

Once again I don't think that way, but if we allow the bible to interpret itself, you will in fact see that all scriptures is in agreement with one fundamental truth which is THE FATHER IS GOD TO EVEN THE SON.

What you are finding difficult here is understanding what the holy spirit is and in so doing you will grasp the manifestation from whence it come from. If the least kindness we do to our fellow man is as if we had done it to God Himself (Matthew 25:34-40). Then how much more of his very emanation, the Word and the Holy spirit?

God the father Himself is a Holy Spirit. The holy spirit is not a person as you made it out to be in trinity. While we are made in God's image through Christ. The holy spirit on the other hand has taken so many forms like, tongue of fire, water, dove, wind, etc

There is no explicit verse that made the holy spirit a third part in a trinity. And guess what ? Jesus was anointed as Christ through the holy spirit. He was filled with the holy spirit which is the power of the highest according to the bible, he performed so many miracles through this power of God (holy spirit). It is God's pure righteous essence of truth and life.

You might want to bring your verses to convince me that the Holy spirit is GOD, you won't be saying anything new why because the holy spirit is God's emanating power himself. But if you make the holy spirit out to be a third of a tripath then it's your own man made teaching.

Yes it is...


Just like it's a must for Muhammed to tirelessly claim to be prophet of God even though we do not recognise him as one.

johnw47

there is but one God in the trinity doctrine:
Mar_12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:

Let me add this to it..
John 17:3 "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent."

philip inspired by God considered Jesus to be equal to Father:
Php_2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

Jesus does not consider him self to be equal to his God your God, and to his father, your father.


John 14:28
"Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I."

the Holy Spirit is more than the power of God:
Act 5:3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?
Act 5:4 Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.

Yes you are still not far from the truth, you are just 180 degrees from it.

Matthew 25:34-40

34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:

36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?

38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?

39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?

40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

So tell me how much more of the power of the holy spirit that proceeds from God. His very essence.

1 Cor.15:28 says God the father is all in all.

Shalom!

Trinity is a false doctrine.

There is but one God.

Jesus is not coequal to Him.

The Holy spirit is the power of God.




Shalom aleikhem!

Jesus does not recognise Muhammed because they are not from the same Spirit.

He only warned us concerning false prophet(s) that will come after him.


1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

1 John 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

2 John1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

Muhammed denied all what Christ stands for.

The bible says in Hebrew 1:1-2
1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,

2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

This conclude that the greatest of all messenger, prophet or messiah have been sent to us in the person of Jesus Christ. And Christ said "it is FINISHED"

Whatsoever Muhammed brought is fabrication of the gospel truth.

Believe the false prophet at your own risk!

Shalom aleikhem!

Hamzi423:
Yes because the true teachings of Jesus has been destroyed by the church...

What is the true teachings of Christ? That an Arabian man knows more than the Jews who walked with him?

Hamzi423:
Praying in a single dialect is a way of unifying the Muslims...
All Muslims are one & the same in the sight of GOD, He chose a particular way of life & a particular language to give his revelations.... It's as simple as that.

No..your Allah only understand arabic

Hamzi423:
Why can't the Jews pray in another language?
Why does the Pope need to recite in Latin? Why only Latin?
Why Was The gospel revealed to Jesus in his own language?
Why did Jesus teach in his own Language alone?
When was the Bible translated from its original form?

We don't have any commandment to use one language in praying to God.

Your Allah on the other hand only understand arabic.