₦airaland Forum

sonofthunder:
But Jesus Christ is also I AM... isn't He?

How do you mean exactly?

capitalzero:
Did the serpent that spoke to Eve have legs?
As recorded at Genesis 3:14 , Jehovah God addressed the serpent that had deceived Eve in the garden of Eden. God said: “Because you have done this thing, you are the cursed one out of all the domestic animals and out of all the wild beasts of the field. Upon your belly you will go and dust is what you will eat all the days of your life.” The Bible does not specifically state that the animal used in tempting Eve had previously had legs but lost them. While the wording of Genesis 3:14 might lead some to think so, we need not necessarily conclude that prior to this curse, serpents had legs. Why not?
Principally because the real object of Jehovah’s judgment was Satan​—the invisible spirit who had misused that lowly animal. The Bible describes Satan as “the father of the lie” and “the original serpent.” Both of these expressions apparently point back to Satan’s using a visible animal, a serpent, as his mouthpiece to induce Eve to disobey God’s command.​— John 8:44; Revelation 20:2 .
God created serpents, and Adam had apparently given serpents their name before Satan’s deceptive act. The unreasoning serpent that spoke to Eve was not to blame. It would have been unaware that Satan was manipulating it, and it could not understand the judgment that God rendered against the disobedient parties.
Why, then, did God speak of the serpent’s physical abasement? The behavior of a serpent in its natural environment, crawling on its belly and flicking its tongue as if to lick up dust, fittingly symbolized Satan’s debased condition. Having previously enjoyed a lofty position as one of God’s angels, he was consigned to the lowly condition referred to in the Bible as Tartarus.​— 2 Peter 2:4 .
Further, as a literal serpent might wound a man’s heel, Satan in his debased state would ‘bruise the heel’ of God’s “seed.” ( Genesis 3:15 ) The primary part of that seed proved to be Jesus Christ, who temporarily suffered at the hands of Satan’s agents. But the symbolic serpent’s head will, in time, be permanently crushed by Christ and his resurrected anointed Christian companions. ( Romans 16:20 ) Thus, God’s directing his curse toward the visible serpent aptly pictured the debasement and ultimate destruction of the invisible “original serpent,” Satan the Devil

Op you can get enlighten by this post above. Snakes were created as they are (without arms and limbs).

While what Lake Adeboye said is not OK as a Christian leader if at all he truly said such comment. But it is not as derogatory and inciting as the one these Muslim clerics and counterpart have made in the past against Christianity, talking about the likes of Zakir Naik and Ahmed Deedat.


Meanwhile no religion will be accepted in heaven. Love your fellow man, most of all love God.

Shalom Aleikhem

[quote author=Primesky post=70399590]Your believe. Which one is speaking from both sides of the mouth. Do you understand what you're replying. Is God flesh and blood?. Oh Lord!, you can never understand the scriptures with canal mind, it won't work!. If your picture is you, is there any difference between you both?. More so, if such comparison is along spiritual lines. It's true we have baby Christians.

According to you Jesus is Yahweh, so you tell me if he is flesh and blood.

For the record, yes! There is difference between my picture and I, for the fact that it is the exact projection of my rigorous figure and appearance. It is still not the real me, it can't be my boss, it is inanimate, I can send my picture anywhere I deem fit to represent me as long as it will be accepted and serve the purpose.

You guys don't understand this thing, yet you're the ones taking it overboard.

You are the one taking it overboard here. It is very clear like a black gaot in daylight.

Why did the Jews seek to stone Jesus?. By claiming He is 'the Son of God', they said, He made himself equal with God, which for them is blasphemy, and for that, they sort to kill Him. Did you see that in your Bible?. Jesus is the son of God, means more than you naturally interpret it. You need the word of God revealed to you to understand this.

Oh now when I say Jesus is the Son of God my own interpretation suddenly doesn't measure up to what is required to you..hmmmm!

The Jews seek to kill him because they wrongly thought Jesus was blasphemous.

Since we have Christians of different level of maturity, and exposure and encounter with God, worse of, those who do not believe in the person of the Holy Spirit, I will purse on this subject. My worry is seeing the false religion of Jehovah witness coming here to spew absolute falsehood all the while pretending to be true. All the questions I asked them, they couldn't answer. They dodge those ones because it exposes their false religion. But they're fast with scripture twisting.

May God save His people from subtle lies cloaked in human reasoning.

I am not JW just so you know.


Shalom aleikhem!

search4truth:
That's why i stopped replying him.
Since he chose to insult instead of him prooving us wrong with facts.

Just let it go, since you have made your point.

Shalom Aleikhem !

TATIME:
How long will you continue to behave like Satan? Well for your information, Apostate means someone who denounce his/her faith yet kept following day to day the programs of the abandoned faith without producing or adhering to one SPECIFIC form of faith! Neither Jehovah nor Jesus can be referred to as Apostates because the first is the originator of FAITH and the second always follow whatever the first without FILTERING the information before consumption! John 8:28 Jehovah kept quiet about the identity of Satan until the story of Job was recorded, HE kept quiet about idolatry for centuries until HE gave Israelites laws through Moses to expose idolatry, He kept quiet for centuries about the falsehood in the Jewish religious settings until John the Baptist and Jesus came to expose them. And today Jehovah kept quiet for almost 2,000 years before exposing the falsehood in the Churches of Christendom. So if you're not OK with the agent HE used to expose such falsehood just present ANOTHER agent that's worthy of such a huge assignment. Neither Moses,John the Baptist nor Jesus continued FEEDING from the routine spiritual food been served by the Jewish religious leaders, therefore if you're not a good for nothing idiot like Satan the Devil your father why not stop listening and repeating what JW organization is teaching? Why not start your own and invite people to come EAT UNDILUTED AND WELL FILTERED spiritual food? Why keep shouting POISON when you have NOTHING to serve as a REPLACEMENT of JW.org? My friend you have nothing tangible to say,you're all GOOD FOR NOTHING IDIOTS.

You could have drove home your points without resorting to cheap insult. I mean, there was absolutely no need for that.

Shalom Aleikhem!

Jesus is a prophet
Jesus is the Son of God




All is correct, only your understanding matters

What a fascinating fictional writer

I guess babalawos charms failed at that point.

Whenever you Atheists are ready, we Theists will oblige you. Fear not in what you believe.

Pricelessangel0:
Why not? its the best and biblical.

Hanty, biblical how?

Plus will it be OK if nobody demand monitory assistance as well.

Primesky:
You're responding to what you don't yet understand, that's just the problem.

Jesus Christ is 'the son of God!. Who else has that title?.But you don't even understand what that means.

Jesus Christ is the word of God, is your word different from you, though being distinct?.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

The bible tells us that Jesus Christ is the visible image of the invisible God. So are they not the same?. Is your image a different person from you, though it be distinct?. If someone sees my picture, will they say it's a different person?. Can my picture do anything at all without my power?, Can't I send my picture any where to represent me, as we do with our pass port photo graph?.

Colossians 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

John 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

The Jews wanted to Stone Jesus Christ because He said, He is the son of God, and that by doing so, He made Himself equal with God, do you understand it better than the jews?.

John 5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.

Why should they attempt to stone Jesus Christ, are we not God's children after all?, are the angels not sons of God?. But there's something special about being 'the Son of God'!, sorry english language can't explain it to you. Otherwise the jews wouldn't have said what they said, or attempted what they did.

Again read the bible very well, before you counter the truth. John clearly bowed down to worship Jesus Christ, and that was clearly stated, but you have denied it.

Revelation 1:17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: 1:18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.


Again, I ask you, how many first and last can there be?

Please, seek the Holy Spirit to open your understanding, and stop defending the lies of a man. The bible is very clear about these things. Thank you.

Jesus is the Son of God. Stop having problem with that.

Your picture looks exactly like you but it is not you in substance(flesh and blood).

Stop speaking from both sides of your mouth. Jesus was sent by someone higher in power and authority than him.

Trinity is not biblical and will never be.

Shalom Aleikhem

tartar9:
What is great about the thread please

So many things, stop hating puuulease

God created all things through Christ. Does that make Christ the Creator along with the Father? Or should only the Father be called the Creator?

God the Father is certainly the Creator—with Christ as His Agent. Nevertheless, the fact that Christ did the work of all creation makes Christ the Creator as well (unless we would imagine Him as a mere mechanical tool or power with zero thought or input or creativity in what He was given to do—which we do not). Based on Scripture, the Church of God has specifically proclaimed Christ as the Creator along with the Father in its literature going back more than 60 years.

The fact is, God is the Creator—both the Father and Christ, with Christ executing the will of the Father. If Jesus made everything, then He is the Maker (at the Father’s behest). A maker is one who makes. If Jesus is the One who brought everything out of nothing—as He clearly did—then He is the Creator (again, of course, at the Father’s directive, so that they are both Creator). We’ll see more evidence of this as we examine the matter—along with why it’s so important to understand this properly.

“Remember Your Creators”
Jesus is specifically presented in Scripture as Creator along with the Father.

Ecclesiastes 12:1 tells us to remember our Creator while we’re young. But, as many commentaries acknowledge, this verse literally translated says, “Remember also thy Creators . . .” (Young’s Literal Translation). The word here is plural. Some will argue that this is merely a majestic plural for a singular Creator—just as they argue for the plural forms Elohim and Adonai .

However, we understand that these other words refer to an actual plurality that can be used in a singular way (just as “United States” is plural in form but is used with singular verbs, yet with an actual plurality of states being behind the name).

In any case, the actual word used in Ecclesiastes 12:1 is Creators. So the Bible explicitly acknowledges a plurality of Creators, just as it does a plurality of God Beings. There are two Creators, just as there are two who are God—the One who became the Father and the One who became Christ, the latter following the will of the former.

And again, Scripture says that all created things were created through Christ. This means Christ did the creating. If He did not, what would we call what He did? Made? Built? He called things out of nothing into existence (Psalms 33:6). That is creating. And since He did that, He is Creator. Not exclusively or even primarily, of course, because He was following the will of the One who became the Father. Nonetheless, Jesus shared in the role of Creator along with the Father, though in a subordinate position.

Christ an Assembly-Line Worker?
As an analogy to God creating through Christ, the Church has in the past used the illustration of Henry Ford being the creator of the Ford automobile, though using workmen on an assembly line to put the cars together. This is a valid analogy that was meant to show how the Father is Creator without doing the actual work of creation. It was not meant to deny Christ’s role as Creator, as He was referred to as Creator in the same context.

Of course all analogies break down. In this case, the Word who became Christ was not just an assembly-line worker among many assembly-line workers putting various parts of the creation in place. Rather, Jesus made everything that exists except for Himself and the Father! If Ford automobiles and all their parts were all made and put together by one single person, we would probably be inclined to call that person the maker of the Ford automobile along with Henry Ford himself—especially if this person also had input into how the cars were to be made.

The Bible teaches that Jesus was the creative agent through which God the Father acted to make all things. Moreover, Jesus "uphold[s] all things by the word of His power" (Hebrews 1:3), acting as the ongoing sustainer of the universe.


Ephesians 3:9 and Hebrews 1:1-2 affirm that God created the physical world through Jesus Christ, but Colossians 1:16-17 further clarifies that Jesus also created even non-physical things such as positions of authority: ”by Him all things were created … visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him.”

This does not mean that God the Father was not involved with creation, or cannot also rightly be called the Creator. This is seen in the creation of man when God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness” (Genesis 1:26). The use of the plural pronouns indicates the involvement of both God the Father and the Word, who was the pre-incarnate Jesus (John 1:14). Hebrews 1:1-2 states that God the Father created the worlds through Jesus, showing that they were, jointly, the Creators. Further evidence for the unified creative role is found in Ecclesiastes 12:1, which says, “Remember now your Creator in the days of your youth…” The underlying Hebrew text is actually plural here and says “Creators,” acknowledging both the Father and Christ.

Therefore, the biblical conclusion is that Jesus Christ was the agent of creation at the will of the Father, and that both the Father and Jesus were involved in the planning and design of the universe. A succinct way to express this properly is to state that God is the Creator, with the term “God” referring collectively to God the Father and Jesus Christ. This linguistic convention is used in Genesis 1:26 and elsewhere throughout the Bible to denote both beings.

[quote author=Primesky post=69975030]Hmm... Did you understand what you responded to in the first place?. Are you saying angels assume the titles of God's name when presenting their message?, I strongly disagree. You said it yourself. They tell who they are, their names, who they serve and who sent them. Never in the bible did any angel assume the names of God, or His position and title like Jesus did, why because Jesus is not like them nor is He in their rank. In fact, the angels were made by Him.

Some one may say trinity does not guarantee salvation, that's true, but what if the person denying the trinity is actually denying who Jesus Christ really is, does that not affect his salvation.

Jesus is the Son of God Almighty not God Almighty. Stop confusing yourself sir.

I see your clever maneuvering around the subject, but you can't deny the truth.

Revelation 1:9 I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, [b]for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.

1:10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,

1:11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.

You can't twist this verse to say something different to support your man made doctrine.

Revelation 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

Even the Rev 1:9 you quoted up there says it all..check the bolded.

If Jesus is God Almighty, who gave him revelation here?

Who does Jesus hear from?

Who's word is Jesus?

Everytime human beings have attempted to worship an angel of God, they've always resisted it. But we see in the passage above, that when John bowed down to worship Jesus, He never objected, then He said... I am alpha and omega...!. And here you're saying what does that mean, just so you could wave it aside. You can deceive other people, but you can't deceive yourself and God. It's not how well you can quote the scriptures, the devil does it very well, but he's a devil.

Where exactly did John worshipped Jesus in the verses you quoted above?

Jesus is the Son of God, He was begotten by God Almighty, he was anointed and appointed by God Almighty.

Surely the truth has come to you and it is as clear as ever.

Seek the real Jesus, otherwise salvation is far away. Jesus loves you.

The JWs claim to believe in the Holy Spirit, but they merely reffer to Him as mere force. That's false teaching!, why?, because they're against trinity. But that's clearly against the scriptures.

The real Jesus said he is the Son of God but you Primesky said no he is God Almighty.

Who else through out the bible have ever said this like Jesus said?. What does that mean?.

If a your father is a king or a chief, and he sends you in an errand somewhere, do you go there to say, I the king of so and so kingdom said this and that, do you not acknowledge the original source?, but whereby the original source and the messenger are one and the same what do you then expect?.

If Jesus is God Almighty, who sent Him?
Who does Jesus hear from?
who's will was he seeking? because Jesus seeks not his own will but the will of the father God Almighty.

John 14:7 [b]If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

14:8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.

14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
[b]

Jesus is the image of the invisible God the father not the Father, he (Jesus) came to make the father known. Stop quoting scriptures out of context.

Seek and know the real Jesus Christ.

Seriously, you need to seek and know the real Jesus, yes! the Son of God.

TimeMachine:
Yahweh is not Almighty God my friend, he is a coded aspect of Lucifer, the Metatron AI Solid State Entity is itself nicked Yahweh Virus. Yahweh and the rest of the archetypes are a part of the Luciferan Dynasty. They own this place. This is their territory. You have no idea how intelligent Lucifer is, my friend. He invented all the Religions including Christianity, Islam even the New Age movement.

The Truth is a narrow streak. It was not meant to be known. When I figured out my chances, and how slim it was, I was hopeless. The only thing that gave me comfort was God Realization, it was the Sign that I have tapped into the Raw Consciousness that Reality was designed from. I am not here to encourage or discourage anyone. Cos I know not everyone has the time and fearlessness to dive into places that Angels fear to thread. I am afraid, not many will earn their sovereignty enough to be left un-bothered.

Freedom is earned, not given.

And you shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free.

MuttleyLaff:
So shall My word be which goes forth from My mouth;
It shall not return to Me empty, Without accomplishing what I desire ,
And without succeeding in the matter for which I sent it.
- Isaiah 55:11

I will bow down toward Thy holy temple,
And give thanks unto Thy name for Thy mercy and for Thy truth;
For Thou hast magnified Thy word above all Thy name.
- Psalm 138:2

You can respect your word, you can value your word, your word can carry substance or carry weight,
you can send your word on errand to accomplish things for you
and that the word not return void back to you without achieving that you sent it about

Word, is and can be, so powerful,
that by mere obeying the prompt of the Word, standing on the Word and focusing on the Word,
just like the Peter did, one can do, a once in a lifetime, out of this world, extraordinary and supernatural thing

Thanks for those verses sir!

[quote author=Primesky post=69816728]That does not change the person. Stop trying to twist the scriptures. When Gabriel came to deliver the message of God to Zachariah and Mary, did he assume the names and titles of God because the words were from God?. Gabriel distinguished himself from the person of God. Take note that he came to reveal something, just like Jesus revealed to John.

O yes it does, Gabriel is an angel the bible says in

Hebrews 1:5-6
5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

Angels are not worthy of such position.
Always divide the bible with the bible ok.

Luke 1:19 And the angel answering said unto him, I am Gabriel, that stand in the presence of God; and am sent to speak unto thee, and to shew thee these glad tidings.

You people can never deny the person of Jesus Christ.

No one is denying the person of Christ but it is you that does not know his person to begin with.

Revelation 1:17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:

1:18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

Jesus distinctively described himself. Was God the father the one who died, and rose again?, so why trying to add to the scriptures what isn't there all in an attempt to justify the wrong believe of who Jesus Christ is?.

Of course not, John did not fell at the feet of God Almighty but at the feet of Jesus. So what is there? If Jesus said the above? Lol

Jesus Christ is the visible image of God, He is the word of God, the love of God. Now tell me, what is the difference between your word and yourself?. Can you send your word on an errand?.

Yes! Though my word can be very similar to me. The difference between my word and myself is that, I am the source of the word, am bigger than my word, my word can't be bigger than me the source. When I utter a word It means i just send my word out of me on errand.

The whole thing is that you don't believe in the Holy Spirit, and that's why you find it difficult to understand the word of God. If you deny the place of Jesus Christ in the God head, you don't believe in God!.

No! I very much believe in the holy spirit it is the Spirit of truth and love. No one denies the place of Jesus but by the power and council of the holy spirit we know who the father is through Jesus the Christ. Believe in Trinity is not the criteria for salvation. No!

John 3:16
The one sent is not equal to the sender. No how you can twist this truth in the Bible.

TimeMachine:
I have no idea what that means though, because the word God, does not do justice to the Intelligence Infinity, The Creator. There is so much confusion in the world today, because of Religions. They mess things up for Humanity. There is a lot I can say about this, but I dont wanna through some light on Lucifer and how he got all the Religions in place. All religions and I mean all, were set up by him.

Truth is that Allah is God, Jehovah is God yet they are controlled by a Solid State AI, Metatron owned by guess who ? Lucifer. But Jehovah was an enigma in the Abrahamic days, he demanded lots of human sacrifices and wage wars against the Philistines through Israel. And even declared that he is Almighty God. So, I assume when you mentioned God, it is Jehovah you were referring to. There are many Gods my friend, and your Mission on Earth is to clean your Temple and go through the Dark Nights of Soul to purge out all your Karma and become God Realized. When you experience what being God feels like, even for 2 minutes in your life time. The entire creation will open up before you.

It goes beyond religions and the Sciences. It is a step further than that.

The almighty God is Yahweh (He who is). You must surely meet him in your spiritual journey.

Perfectbeing:
Now that you've said all these, where did you put the coin? Left or right?

I will place the coin at the right side in this case if the God in the left side is the father

[quote author=MuttleyLaff post=69808284]Its content are more desirable than gold--than an abundance of pure gold
and sweeter than honey dripping from a honeycomb

Indeed a great manual for us

That will brilliant
Holy Spirit will be on standby, ready to be help if or when needed,
as like earlier said, it easily can make God, more complex or less easy, to understand.

Will do when am less occupied

I am blessed
How about you.
Your smiling and laughs are infectious

I'm doing great as well...I smile and laugh a lot, one of my trait when you know me in person.

Yes ooo
God is, "not-known-number" of persons
God, then, is, x-persons
and God, in effect is, ∞-persons, as in, infinite

''I AM that I AM'', ''I SHALL BE THAT I SHALL'' or ''I WILL BE THAT I BE'' are expressive phrase
God will be what God needs to be. We find out what God was yesterday, we keep knowing Him every moment and day
He is new every morning, He is new tomorrow

Thats why, God in Exodus 3:14, said to Moses:
"I AM WHO I AM.
This is what you are to say to the Israelites: 'I AM has sent me to you.'"

Perfectly said

TimeMachine:
The Supreme Creator is the best Programmer and Scientist ever. If you get a glimpse of our Solar System Design, you will marvel on the Engineering prowess. And if you see the Reality where the Mainframe Computer hosting this Physical Reality is, where our Souls are hooked up to power the Avatar, it is a wonder.

I believe I am opportuned to be fearless enough to follow the path of Spirituality through Nature and Sciences. There is no way Religion can take one that far. Experiencing that I am you, and I am the tree, that I am just any Human and even animals and everything is so overwhelming. We are just one. We are one being split into individual units to experience our creation in the denser part of created reality.

It is better experienced than read. Writing can not do justice to it. Our vision is just so limited. I implore those who care to know about Reality to de-calcify their pineal gland, and get their pituitary gland functional again by drinking and cleansing themselves with distill water, fasting to get the junks off the system, and reduce animal consumption and synchronizing all hemispheres of their brain. The Temple has to be holy, for the Spirit to connect and activate and take over our physicality.

God is Us, and we are God. Many will disagree because they have not experienced this, and not many will dare to try to step outside their body and know that they are not their body, that Spirit is what powers the body, that is the real us at the core.

Perfect

When we become fully enlightened knowing God's original intention for us, transcendency is just the beginning of our Spirituality.

The Spirit is like the All Spark, Gem Stone, Mother box of life.

MuttleyLaff:
I would have totally agreed with all without demur,
if not for knowing, what in the above comment, easily can make God, more complex or less easy, to understand.

You see, that is because he is infinite. We keep knowing him everyday, he is new every morning.

MuttleyLaff:
"When you go through deep waters, I will be with you.
When you go through rivers of difficulty, you will not drown"
- Isaiah 43:2a

Lol...the bible is forever true.

I will try to make out time to discuss the beginning in John 1:1 In respect to Genesis 1 as well.

How are you today?

When God decree he says Be and it will be, or exist and it will exist in Hebrew (Yehi wa'yehi). that is, his Word materialise that which he utters.

For example putting myself in John 1:1

In the beginning was my word, and my word was with me and my word is me.

That is, that my word is in fact me, because no smallest distinction could be made between me and my word. It was all that the beginning holds it starting point.

I wish I can take you deep into the study of John 1 In the beginning.

To learn the Ayin, the Ayin sof and the Ayin sof ur.
The Secrecy of Transcendental Knowledge, something Timemachine is telling you that might sound alien to you.

Knowing science is in fact knowing God too.
God is the greatest scientist there is.

Perfectbeing:
Some of you might want to say, "Wait a minute, Perfectbeing. You didn’t read the verse carefully. You missed something in the text. Notice the phrase ‘apart from Him.’ The apostle John excludes Jesus from the count in this verse. If you said, ‘Apart from Johnny, the whole family is going to the zoo’ you wouldn’t mean that Johnny wasn’t part of the family, just that he wasn’t included in the count. Every member of the family is going to zoo with the exception of Johnny. In the same way, every created thing was created by Jesus with the exception of Jesus Himself. Jehovah created Jesus first, then Jesus created everything else.”

Now that sounds smart doesn't it?

But you're the one that didn't the verse carefully. Note that with this claim, you're replacing “apart from Him” with the phrase “excluding Jesus.” According to you they are synonymous. In other words what you just said was,

(Replacing "apart from" with "with the exception of Jesus.
The verse then looks like this)
“with the exception of Jesus nothing came into being that has come into being "

The reconstructed phrase is nearly nonsense. What it actually means, is that Jesus is the only created thing that exists.
Read it again and see for yourself.

Obviously, the phrase “apart from Jesus” can’t mean “with the exception of Jesus.” These phrases are not synonymous.

“Apart from Him” means something entirely different. It’s the same as saying, “Apart from me you’ll never get to Lagos. I’ve got the car.” The statement clearly means"apart from me, you can't go to Lagos. Why? Because I have the car (assuming there's no other way to Lagos but the car.
"Apart from Jesus nothing came into being that has come into being. Why? Because Jesus is the Creator. He is God. That makes perfect sense in the context.. Another example will be "I am the way, the truth, and the life. Apart from me no one can see the father ". The statement doesn't mean "except Jesus, no one else can see the father. But rather it means "apart from Jesus no one can see the father. Why? Because, he's the only way to the Father..

Lol...you are really working yourself up on this. Yet you don't even grasp the John 1:3.

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2 The same was in the beginning with God.

3 All things were made by him(the word/Jesus); and without him( the word/Jesus) was not any thing made that was made.

Now listen carefully, the Word/Jesus came out of or was with ONE (God the almighty creator aka the father)

Nothing meaning everything else, be it angels, humans, heavens, earth in fact the universe, materialised through this word/Jesus that also came out of the one who was with/possess or who sent out the word/Jesus to perform all things (God the father).

God the father remains standing gidigba as the one and only.

Perfectbeing:
Your diagram should be something like this

God cant be boxed he fills eternity....there is no space or time outside God. "Everything that ever existed" should be in a box while God outside it.

Anything or everything can't come before God he is the one and only causality of it all.

Guess what? Jesus is inside God the father too but with the exception as firstbegotten (monogene)

Perfectbeing:
Is Jesus God or not?

Ride down with me.

John 1:1 KJV says, “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
But in the Bible of some folks it says.

NWT, “In the beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god.”

The heated argument that follows is almost never productive. We won't waste your time wrestling with Greek grammar or article neither of us understands.

So we'll just go further to VS 3.
John 1:3, “All things came into being by Him [the Word], and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being

The NWT translation is virtually the same here.

“All things came into existence through him, and apart from him not even one thing came into existence

The test begins..

Please I beseech you, before you argue, try following it slowly and carefully. Do the steps yourself too..

1. Take out a piece of paper and draw a large box. This box represents everything that exists. Title the box "everything that exists.
2. Run a line right through the middle of the box, dividing everything that exists into two categories.
3. On the left side of the divided box write “all things that never came into being,” that is, all things that exist but was never created.
4. What goes into this left side of our box? "God right? He exists but was never created right? God is the only thing that exists that has never been created. God alone is eternal and uncreated. Put the word “God” in the left-hand side of your box.

Now we're through with the left hand side for now. Let's go to the right side of our box.

5. Label the right side of the box “all things that came into being,” that is, all created things.
6. Write "all created things there."

Everything in this box was created through or by Jesus, according to verse three. You understands that right?
7. Now draw an arrow to the right side of the box and label it “created through Jesus” outside the box for future reference.

Having done that, take a moment to understand how your illustration is structured. The larger box includes everything there is, was, or ever will be. The left side of the box contains everything that exists but was not created (God). The right hand contains everything that exists and was created (all created things). Each particular existent falls into one of two categories: created or not created.

Now it is either a thing was created or it wasn’t created- there is no third option. Either a thing is at the left or at the right. There's no middle or outside.

And also,

According to the law of noncontradiction, a thing can’t be both created and not created. Any particular thing has to be either one or the other. Not both. It’s very simple

OK, we've established these two laws. Take a coin (or anything) . Assuming the coin is Jesus place him in the category where He belongs. left or right.

Now as a witnesses (or as some people claim, freethinkers) your first instinct will be to place Jesus in the category of “all things that came into being” because that’s what your theology says. The teaching of Arius in the early fourth century, says there was a time “when the Word was not.” Jesus was the first created being and everything else was created by Jehovah through Jesus..

But John 1:3 doesn’t allow that option. Look at the wording carefully. John (NWT) says,
“All things came into being by Him, and apart from Him not even one thing came into existence ”
John says the same thing two different ways for emphasis and clarity: [b]everything that ever came into being owes its existence to Jesus, who caused it all to happen.. If Jesus caused all created things to come into existence, then He must have existed before all created things came into existence . [/b]Therefore, the Word could not have been created..

In other words, if Jesus created everything that has come into being, and Jesus also came into being (as you guys contend), then Jesus created Himself. He would have to exist as Creator before He existed as a created thing, which is absurd. That's breaking the law of noncontradiction above (Jesus cannot be both created and not created) . Therefore, Jesus can’t be placed in the square labeled, “all things that came into being.”
The point is that Jesus is existing before the creation of "all" things that ever came into being. So, the coin can’t be placed on the right..

At this point you may want to place Jesus somewhere on the paper outside the larger box. But, as we’ve seen, you can’t do that. there’s no “place” outside to put Him.
Everything goes on one side of the larger box or the other.
If Jesus can’t be placed on the right side with created things, then He must go on the left with uncreated things, identifying Jesus as the uncreated Creator. Jesus is God..

Who brought Jesus forth into existence?
Who was he with before he created everything else?
Who possessed him?
Who beget him?

Your answer will be God the father and no other

Jesus have constantly said it that he came from someone, he was sent by someone, all power and authority is given to him by someone. Who is this someone?

Your answer will be God the father and no other

Perfectbeing:
I gave you just four approaches on how the word "kai" is used... There are obviously others..


Try to read according to context unless the verse seem contradicts another verse. Then you can do a proper investigation.
When you see something like "Jesus our Lord and Savior.." you don't need to look for any Greek or Hebrew interpretation to tell you that the Savior and the Lord is Jesus.

Also, when you see something like "Jesus and the twelve apostles.." , the context there obviously means Jesus together with his disciple and not "Jesus, that is the disciples "


And one thing else, you only apply all those approaches when a passages of the Bible tends to contradict other passages. Because they actually don't.. It's either the translators got it wrong or you're the one that don't understand.

I think you are the one that does not understand...."kai" or "and" is a connecting or linking word, it is used to parallel two terms or word in a phrase or sentence. Its meaning can't change now, not even in the future.

The translators understand and new very well what they translated when they used "and" for "kai".

[quote author=Perfectbeing post=69792775]Look what happens in Rev 22:8, when John worshiped an angel of God.
8. I, John, am the one who heard and saw these things. And when I had heard and seen them, I fell down to worship at the feet of the angel who had been showing them to me.

What did the angel say in VS 9?
9.But he said to me, “Don’t do that! I am a fellow servant with you and with your fellow prophets and with all who keep the words of this scroll. Worship God!”

The angel told John to worship who? God!

That is because the angel is not worthy to receive worship.

Hebrews 1:5-6
5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

But in Rev 5:13 and 14, the lamb and God was worshiped. Doesn't that in any way tell us that the Lamb (Jesus) and God are the same.. Doesn't that tell us that since Jesus was worshipped he must be God.

God the father has made it to be so, it pleased God for the Lamb (Jesus) to sit at the right hand of God's throne.

Like I've said before God in his 1st commandment did not say "you shall have no other God except me and a mighty god". Rather he said "you shall have no other God except me". Doesn't that again shows that Jesus is God Himself?

Yes that is why all glory, power and honor still returns to God Almighty the father, even if it were given through the name of Jesus the Christ.

Jesus says "..all mine are thine,all thine are mine"

What a wonderful relationship right?

[quote author=Perfectbeing post=69792379]Not only did Jesus claim to be God, but He also claimed to have the power of God . He said He has the authority to judge the nations ( Matthew 25 : 31- 46 ). He claims the authority to raise people from the dead ( John 5 : 25- 29) and to forgive sins ( Mark 2 : 5 - 7 ) — things only God can do ( I Sam 2: 6 ; Isa 43 :25 ).

This verse answers all your queries above.
John 5:26-27
26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;

27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.

Further , Jesus says He has the power to answer prayers ( John 14 : 13- 14 ),

Matthew 28:19 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

and that He will be with His followers always ( Matthew 28 : 20 )

Yes! Through the power of the holy spirit which Jesus possessed too.

The Bible equates Jesus to the creator of the universe ( John 1 : 3 ), and in John 16 : 15, He says , “ All that belongs to the Father is mine . ”

Hebrews 1:1-2
God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,

2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

Jesus says, that He is “the first and the last”
Rev 1: 17, When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: “Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last (read vs 18 in case you want to argue whether it's Jesus talking).

I already explain this to you. Rev 1:1 made it clear who the message is coming from

Revelation 1:1 1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

Remember Jesus said "as I hear so I speak"
He said also "the words I speak to you are not mine but he that sent me"

Jesus also claim to be first and last in Rev 22
13, I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. (read vs 16, to know who's talking).
In Isaiah 44:6 God calls himself the first and the last.
Isa 44:6, "This is what the LORD says-- Israel's King and Redeemer, the LORD Almighty: I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God...

My answers above applies to this.

Both Jesus and God claim to be the first and the last. This must either mean,
1. One of them was telling a lie.
2. Both of them was telling a lie. Or,
3. Both of them are one and the same...

Pick your choice..

None of them lied

One is the Father that beget the other who is the Son. From whom all things come from.