₦airaland Forum

hmmm

shymexx: I've got all the love and respect in the world for Benin folks, and the achievements of that great empire. Edo people are like my brothers. So, best believe I'm objective as possible. And this isn't about superiority. It's about giving credits where it's due, to protect our mutual history.

Anyway, I'm glad you accepted that certain aspects of Bini religions were borrowed from Yoruba's, unlike these other folks living in denial. And a lot of things in Yoruba culture/traditions/arts were also borrowed from the Bini's and other tribes.

As for the moat, I'll speak based on FACTS, not fiction. Why isn't the Bini in the guinness book of records like the Ijebu moat? And how come the Ijebu moat preceded it?

Size of the two moats again to see which was actually bigger:

Benin Moat:



Ijebu Sungbo Eredo Moat:



^^^Can you compare 11 miles(Bini), to the 100 miles(Ijebu)?

Edit: I had to change the first source. That was hyperbole by Benin folks.

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Well, if u chose your source in a particular way, u can prove that the tallest building in the world is Cocoa House in Ibadan. .

Benin moats and ramparts are definitely not 11 miles. I grew up to meet some of the ramparts.

The other thing is people think only Benin City had moats and ramparts. Not so. It extended to various towns and villages outside Benin.

Time doesn't permit me now to dig up the details.

shymexx: Lmao!!! Olokun is Bini god, yet Bini empire was landlocked, no? What does Olokun mean in Bini language?

And what does Ogun mean in Bini language?

I already posted the link about Yoruba influence on Bini arts, go read that. Your brass and terracotta arts came from Yoruba. I'd even wager that the genesis of your Bronze casting also has Yoruba origins.

I'm still doing a scholarship about which of the two kingdoms, Ijebu or Benin, actually first built a moat to surround their kingdoms. And it seems the moat thing most likely came from the Ijebu's, since the Ijebu moat was far bigger than Benin's and it has been labelled as one of the biggest ever.

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The Romans adopted many gods from Greece and even Egypt and many other places/colonies. Even Islam & Christianity of today are from the Middle East but Chris Oyakhilome & Adeboye are not suddenly from Israel.

Olokun has a meaning and Okun also has a meaning in Bini.

Benin Moats are far bigger than Erodo moats. Get your facts right.

In fact check ur encyclo. Benin moat was regarded as mankind's largest ever work BEFORE Chinese people suddenly claimed to have discovered extra miles of ancient walls.
Note that Benin & Sungbo walls were studied by independent scientists unlike the "new extra miles" by the Chinese.

I have both Bini & Yoruba heritage, I have no need to claim one is superior using bare-face lies.

The problem I see is that many people are not objective and they approach the matter with a massive bias.

koastar: I believe some people here are close to, related or from the royal family in Benin or those whose fathers are high chiefs or king makers in Benin can help to find out the true position of this culture if truly the corpse of the Oba of Benin are buried in Ife as claimed in the evidence brought forward by the op. This will help to unravel the mystery.

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Thank you my brother. Some people just argue for the sake of it.

There is always much secrecy surrounding burial rites of a departed Oba. Also know that there has only been 3 deaths over the past 100 years.

Oba Ovonramen in 1914, Eweka II in 1933 and Akenzua II in 1979.

That a shrine is dedicated to an Oba of Benin at Ife (Uhe as it called in Bini) is no surprise. It is not disputed within the palace or among royal descendants that Oramiyan (Oranyan) founded the current dynasty via Oba Eweka I (his son). A shrine in ancestral home is totally in order. But no evidence that the Oba's remains or part there of go to Ife.

That the Binis believe that Ododuwa (Izeduwa) was a Benin prince in the first place has been a topic of long discussion between Yorubas & Binis.


AND ANOTHER THING:

We need to start knowing the difference between origin of Bini people AND origin of Benin Royal family. They are TWO different things.

Bini people existed for at least 1500 years in the pre-Ogiso and Ogiso era as Igodomigodo before Oranmiyan came in about 1169 AD.

Even basic philology (study of origin of languages) shows that Bini & Yoruba languages don't belong to same family. Whereas Bini, Urhobo (and Okpe dialect), Esan, Isoko, Degema (in Rivers State), Owan, Afemai, Ososo and a few dozens more are same Edoid language family.


Reminder: the Bernadotte Royal house of Sweden are French but Swedes are not French. The Greek Royal family are Danish-German but Greeks are not German or Danish. The Saxe-Coburg-Gotha (later called Windsor) are German but the English are not directly German but a collection of Danes/Jutes and Saxons/Sachsen (Germans).
I think a better education in history in 9ja without tribal bias will go a long way.

In my family, we're proud of our Bini as well as our Ado-Owo heritage.
Among our family "Oriki" when you greet an elderly lady (EL)/man is:

Me: Iyenokhua (Iya agba) Lamogun
EL: Ihoen Ovbie Umogun, Umogun bi'Oba, Ovbie Uhe, Uhe bi'Oba. Ovbie Elibokun, Elibukun ne Okhokho n'Uhe.

Me: Grandma Lamogun
EL: I hear the son of Umogun, Umogun the progenitor of Oba, the son of Ife, Ife the home of Oba, the son of Elibokun, Elibokun the beautiful bird from Ife.

NOTE: Lamogun is the morning salutation of royal descendants in Benin. Different families have different ones. My other relatives like Ero (the pre-Oranmiyan duke of Urubi) greet "Lamosun", The Elawure of Usen greet "Delaihe", the Ezomo (Duke of Uzebu quarters) greet "Lagiesan". Etc.

Just crazy.
We need root and branch reform.

Some Naija babes just want everything: all the material things, undies washed and now flowers.

I'm an ardent flower giver but to those who deserve and know the value of it. I like a mixed bouquet with mostly roses in rose, red and white, tulips etc.

Very few Naija babes do. As few as Chinese Ifa priests.

The safe bet is to stick to bb, Brazilian hair, "richad cad" and Mr Biggs.

@Loretta, you're OYO.

Nice

Keneking: Pls what is hitchhike?

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Flag down a car and take a lift.

PhysicsQED: Could you name that village?

I've seen different claims about where exactly Asoro was from. I'm inclined to think that people have tried to associate specific places with him, regardless of what his exact origin was. I would be interested in knowing where it is that you or your relatives hold as his place of origin. One of the places I saw him mentioned as being from is Iguogho village. Is that the same village you're referring to?

[edited]

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Iguogho it is. All elderly people there are bilingual (Bini & Ogho dialect of Owo Yoruba).

Asoro's living closest relatives are the Omorogbe & Omorodion families. etc.

I'm from the Enogie of Ogho family. Like all Bini Provincial Enigie, we're of Benin royal family origin.
Some of my other relatives are from Usen, Okeluse etc, again Edo n'Ekue areas.

I hope to be able to document more of the history before it's too late.

Niseamaka: She`s responsible for his death. Family bank card indeed, the bank card belongs to the man.

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Wetin before?

If the card belongs to the wife, the man will not even know the colour of the card let alone ever touching it.

Women like to form victim but when they commit they use tears and innocent face to fool everybody.

With all this kind of wahala, why won't women live longer than men?

RIP Nick.

The dude is not here to say his own version.

But the story get K-leg.

I think it was more like " if you no drop this bank card, you no go pass here today. Make I see how you go take waka go the airport".

Many ladies are very capable of such especially when money is not flowing like before.

Should family finances not be sorted before embarking on a journey to the airport?

@ PhysicsHD,

where are you to spice up your thread on fp

4teelaw: This is an Esan (Ishan) indigene of Edo State, not Benin

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True, although most royal houses in Esanland would trace their origins to Benin Royalty/Nobility.

In any case we're both branches of a common family tree.

[quote author=PAGAN 9JA]DOnt call yourself hybrid.

Infact I believe Bini are the missing link between the final separation of the Yoruba and other further western related groups such as the Fon and Ewe, from the other Eastern Volta-Niger groups such as the Urhobo, Itsekiri, etc.

These are today different tribes due to years and years of internal cohesion and isolation.[/quote].

Well that's my personal family history. I am not speaking for all Edo people. In the same way there are very many people of dual tribal origins all over Naija. Only that due to tribalism, people just aren't comfortable enough to admit or they just don't know their family history well enough.

No doubts that there were waves of migrants from Benin throughout history, some are beyond the borders of Nigeria today such as Togo, Osu area of Ghana (the Ga people), Republic of Benin and of course within Naija like Delta, Ondo, Bayelsa, Lagos Island, etc.

I even read an interview by Late Dim Ojukwu in which he said some Onitsha people regard themselves as coming from Benin.

macof: Edo and other nations Of Ondo area have always had strong relationships.

I heard bini once headed Owo before they revolted

Yup.

Not exactly clear how it happened. But history says that although Owo was defeated in war, the diplomatic negotiations after the war gave Owo a lot of autonomy still.

What we know in the family, is that our family (said to be imperial ambassador/colonial officer/prince of Bini royalty) left Owo for Benin when things became unpleasant in Owo. But by this time we had already assimilated a lot of Owo culture/language, mixed with Owo royalty/nobility, essentially returning more as Yoruba than Bini to Benin City.

In modern times, German-Russians called "Aussiedler" have returned to Germany post-soviet era. They are all but Russians except for German DNA.

Hundreds of years later, we still have the "Ado-Akure" culture.

I dey laff o.

jude33084: What you call bini is called Edo.

The Edos did not leave the Yoruba land, instead the a message was sent to the Yoruba King then( whom happen to also come from the Benin Kingdom in person of Ikaladeran(spelling might be wrong) to help the Edos for a king during their early predicament.

Yorubas are more educated than the Edos hence they tried to change history in Nigerian Educational system.


A debate came up years ago; not too long though when the Ooni of Ife or so make that comment and Oba of Benin corrected him immediately.

Punch as usual took the matter up but when they discovered the truth, silence as usual covered everything up.

The Yoruba will tell you that Oduduwa came directly from heaven.

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THIS is a very controversial topic. What is sure is that Oranyan/Oranmiyan founded the current Benin Monarchy. Before that, dozens of Ogiso/Kings ruled in Benin. Nothing unusual about this: British Royal family is from Germany, Swedish one from France, former Greek royal family was German/Danish etc.

The entire Bini tribe did not descend from Yorubaland. There are certainly Yoruba heritage people in Benin and vice versa.

Oranmiyan who was requested by senior Benin chiefs from Ododuwa to help resolve the rulership crisis in Igodomigodo (as Benin was called then). Oranyan could not speak Igodo language, didn't understand the culture. Don't forget that some people would have been suspicious of this foreign dude lording it over us. As soon as his wife was pregnant, Oranyan left Benin hoping the baby would be a boy.

The people of Igodo were very plain-talking people and would not hesitate to break your neck if you mess up.

Oranyan declared that this was "Ile-Ibinu" = roughly land of vexation/temper/anger, as he left quickly.

The name was initially used by other tribes to describe Benin. One school of thought is that Possibly the Itsekiri (close to the coast) told early Europeans that the kingdom was called Ile-Ibinu which the Portuguese wrote down as "Beny" and later as Benin by the Dutch, French, British etc.

In the 15th century, Oba Ewuare (about 1440 AD) changed the tribe's name to Edo, in honour of a Slave that helped save his life. But maybe he was fed up seeing the Kingdom being described using a disparaging name too.

Asiwaju9ja: I tried hard to educate one Edo lost child here on Nairaland about the closeness of the Edos to yoruba and he became rude and insultive. Please educate some more pple like him.

Can some 1 please interpret these words in Bini and Portuguese.

English. Bini. Portuguese.
Shoe Ibata Sapato
Spoon Ekuye Colher
Albino Eyaen Albino

I heard that the original name for the Binis by early yorubas was Ilu-ibinu.
Becos of the anger with which the progenator of d binis left yoruba land. I stand to be corrected.

Note that spoon in French is called cuillère. Portuguese like French derives from Latin.

My Portuguese is pretty weak, I mostly know these words by way of French which helps you understand Portuguese/Spanish/Italian a bit.

@Asiwaju, I am pretty happy with being a hybrid and so are all my relatives. We have the unique privilege of Royal descent from both Yoruba and Edo side.

In fact in our part of Edo state, we can switch in an instant to Yoruba dance, song in occasions like funeral, marriage etc, to the surprise of those who don't previously know that aspect of us or take the names we bear (Adeyemi, Adewole, Adedeji, Akinbiyi, Ajibade, Adenuga) as a mere coincidence. It is a very exciting cultural mix indeed.

I think our problem in Naija is that we have this "unseen tribal supremacy struggle". People think having something in common with others dilutes your tribal/ethnic identity.

At some point, Benin territory was up to Northern Ekiti (border with Oyo Empire). Of course there was always conquest and loss of territory. These things were fluid. Considering trade, intermarriages, migration etc, a lot of people who call themselves Bini today were originally Yoruba.

In Akure in particular, lots of people going by Yoruba identity today were Ado-Akure, same in Owo, Ado-Ekiti, Emure-Ekiti, Idanre, Okitipupa.

In fact two Benin Iyase (Benin Traditional Prime Minister) in the past where Ado-Akure specially invited by Oba of Benin to come as neutral ministers.

please more details to:

mac.lovington@yahoo.com

lynpetra: Yea,but there is another Benin warrior I read sometime ago that is impenetrable by bullets....the only way to kill him was to shoot at his shadow....I think he was betrayed...can't remember...

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Lol, he was Asoro.

I was discussing him with my cousin a few years back. My cousin is the second oldest living male blood relative of Asoro. There was a bit of embellishment in the shadow shooting story, as it usually is with iconic figures/heroes.

Fact is that in our village (Asoro's place) such protective okpor was nothing extra-ordinary. Of course the higher your military position the more the fortification you got. Until Christianity became more widespread in the 1970s.

Even now some of the strongest traditional medicine in Edo state still come from there. Note that "bad/destructive medicine" is strictly forbidden.

As an ancient warrior dukedom/duchy, people there fortified themselves before going to war or embarking on risky journeys.

My great uncle (grand dad's elder brother) escaped death from robbers in Ondo area around 1910 using similar Okpor.

What many people also don't know about Asoro is that he was an Edo n'Ekue/Ado-Akure as Edo-Yoruba hybrid are colloquially called.

Asoro was specifically a Bini-Owo hybrid.

alaoeri: Op abeg what's the offence of that Oba that was sent to exile.

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Oba Ovonramwen was NOT found guilty by the British court convened in Benin where the British were both judge and jury.

The British had been looking for a way to provoke the Benin and then use the opportunity to invade. Reason is Benin was the last remaining barrier to establishing Southern Protectorate.

In 1897, the Oba was observing the "Awe" period, which is the period of Fasting and Atonement, similar to Jewish Yom Kippur.
During this period, the Oba doesn't really receive many people let alone outsiders/foreigners.

When Captain Phillips requested to go to Benin, he was warned that no foreigners were admitted but he proceeded anyway.

His column was routed except two of his men who escaped. Reason is that his motive for defying advice was seen as suspicious by certain Benin chiefs. The chiefs were actually right in their suspicion.
Remember they had about 400 years experience of dealing with Europeans.

The background was that months earlier in 1896 Phillips already requested permission from London to invade Benin. He did not even wait for reply from London before heading to Benin. This was actually unknown to Benin chiefs that he had requested for permission to invade.

His African troupe disguised as porters and their weapons were locked in several luggage carried by Africans troupe/porters.

In one of the pictures above is Chief Ologbosere; and some others who masterminded the routing of Phillips were found guilty and executed, but only after about three months of guerrilla war when they were betrayed and arrested.
There was never any evidence that the Oba knew about it.

Remember this happened in Imperial Benin and certain chiefs had military command and they may well have exercised those command positions to decide routing Phillips.

ok

No except in emergency.

Spoil sometimes, yes.

nancy789: study in india.... 3yrs get ur bachelors degree...contact me +919632956040

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Is this study in Goa by any chance?

ritux: Hard work is important to success but those that despise their small beginnings never live to see big endings

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Very good input from you.

My only surprise is that a lot of NLers talk as if everyone in Naija is on at least 250k per month.

I know well-educated folks on 45 to 100k in Lagos, same in Abuja. These folks are managing well. Only very few people I know are earning over 150k/month.

I even know a jobseeker in Abuja willing to take 25k per month.

sandijey: Many of this guys talking are the men I was Reffering to as having slave and master mentality Wiv their gf or wives. Many nigerian men do not deserve an ounce of happiness. I keep asking if a good woman to u includes a lady that cooks unlimitedly, are u a deserving husband or bf? Some of this guys don't even gve their gfs money, abuse them, beat them, have no respect for them, belittle them in f ront of their family and friends yet they are here preaching to us that a woman must cook. Are u a husband material?

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Well, it's not by force to have a boyfriend. Or you can look for one that expects no care.

Suddenly our African way of life is a slave and master mentality.

I mostly (90%) dated Western ladies and I always made it clear to them that a lady should know how to cook.

In any case only very few ladies can cook better than me.

The first time a babe came to visit, I always cooked a proper meal.

I don't want any babe to think that I survive on bread and butter only or that I cannot cook for myself.

In fact many of the babes used to confess the very first time that they cannot cook very well on tasting my food.

GentleMimi: Yes,we have to cater for our men...but why should you give it all? What do u have to hold on to later in the relationship? When u play all ur cards,u may realize it isn't a smart move.

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It might surprise you to know that many other babes out there are ready to play 150% of their card. While you do your yearly independence day or Easter cooking, another hot babe will gladly fill in the yawning gap in between.

It's not really a big deal. Only that your guy might just already have one or two kids outside with the other babe by the time you expect him to pop the question.

Yes, life is unfair and poo happens.

Mmiriariugwu: Whatever happens to ideologies? although they are bloody oportunists,am watching to see how well this oil & water tend to gel.

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Ideo kini?

Is there such a word in Nigerian political dictionary?

I always knew asari dokubo's big and loud mouth is going to put him in trouble one day.
Abeg they should keep him in prison,the guy is a threat to nigeria's unity..
Moreso didn't he claim to renounce his nigerian citizenship,so why is he calling for nigerian's help

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Where's the unity in Nigeria? Boko-Haramistan and Massobaria nko?

Let us face the facts. Our elders pretended there was unity and see where we're today.

Should our generation also stick head in the sand like ostrich?

Nawa