₦airaland Forum

Kaysalas:
May i christen you "WILLIAM" the defender of the faith. God bless you real good for "putting these antichrists to the sword"

So delusional. Hahaha.

Kaysalas:
shame on you! i tot i told you expressly to read to the very end, most especially the concluding paragraph? now tell me what does it say?(the very last paragraph)

Your version of inanity is befuddling. Let me quote your last paragraph for you. Here goes:

if done with absolutely no lust, immoral thoughts, or pornography, with full assurance that it is good and right, with thanks given to God for the pleasure it brings (see 1 Corinthians 10:30), is it still a sin to masturbate? The most we can say is maybe not. However, we have serious doubts whether this scenario ever truly exists.

What we have up there is someone who knows the truth but is still hiding behind words to remain politically correct. Is it a sin? The answer is NO. That the writer doubts that such a situation exists where masturbation was devoid of lust and immoral thoughts is his own cup of tea. He plainly said he could not call it a sin.

He is wiser than you. Learn from him.

Kaysalas:
got you right where i wanted you, i knew you were gonna paint another "what if" so the wife had to be incapacitated at the time the doctor needed to do fertility test right? hehehe
and the fertility test cannot wait till later, no no no, it has to be done now so that the man will not DIE right? keep fooling yourself.
see you wey dey trained! u just open your mouth and spew thrash online. how do you know most of us arent trained? u don do census? hahaha

You are gabbling incoherently and patting yourself on the back. Is there a situation where LUSTING will not be a sin? Is there a situation where FORNICATING will not be a sin?

That is why God did not send you to help him categorize what is sin or not. He gave you the scriptures so you would follow it. But the brotherhood of spiritual detectives will not wait for his instructions. You carry on and put yourself in trouble.

Since I have presented you with situations where producing semen from a man's private organ does not involve lusting, unlawful sexual desires and the likes, please tell me the rationale in which masturbation should be a sin all the time?

MiddleDimension:
but you guys said there is no such thing as pentecostal church. also, when you mention orthodox church, remember that that refers to those churches in eastern europe and the middleast ans north africa.

as for the reply to my other post, i will respond when i have the time to. the same goes to joeagbaje and co.

Some people call themselves that. Should I call them another name?

Your article answered your question. I doubt you read it at all. Pastor Chris did not encourage the act but he expressly stated that the act, in itself, was not a sin and your article said same.

I told you, if a man lusts then masturbates. The sin is the LUST. Just the way sex is not a sin except premarital, extramarital or done by force i.e rape. So I can say having sex IN ITSELF is not a sin.

Kaysalas:
O boi! u can choose to believe whatever you want, but please dont come and spread falsehood like Pst chris or defend it like you and all your league of defenders. if a doctor needs a man's sperm, must he touch the man? can the man not sleep with his wife using a condom? why do you take so much delight in "explaining away" sin? i think i can guess your next " what is?" but lemme hold on?

You are the one who is trying to prove you know more than us but you cannot give any sensible response to our questions. You said the man must not masturbate to produce semen for a fertility test. I asked how else it would be gotten- whether a Doctor would extract it from him and you have changed position to say he should extract it while having sex with his wife. What if his wife is away on business trip? What if she is incapacitated at the point?

If there are conditions in which something may not be a sin, then it is absolutely foolish of anyone to brusquely declare it a sin.

I know most of you are not trained so you think you are doing God a favor. But he does not operate that way. Jesus said David ate the bread placed in the Altar because he was hungry. Why was it not a sin? Jesus flouted the rules the Pharisees adhered to according to the Law and said he was not wrong? Why?

donnie:
The masturbation is one thing, the "thinking or thoughts" is another... get that?

mas·tur·ba·tion\ˌmas-tər-ˈbā-shən\
noun
: erotic stimulation especially of one's own genital organs commonly resulting in orgasm and achieved by manual or other bodily contact exclusive of sexual intercourse, by instrumental manipulation, occasionally by sexual fantasies, or by various combinations of these agencies
First use: 1603

Now, from the above Merriam Webster definition, Sexual fantasies are just one of the means... it may involve sexual fantasies OCCASIONALLY.

I tire.

Kaysalas:
Hahahaha! i marvel 2 your level of imagination, you should really be writing books.
first up, are you a medical practitioner? how are you so sure that is the only way of extracting sperm from a man?
masturbation is sexual sin, please STOP rationalising sin for whatever reason...suppose this....suppose that?hope i have answered you but you are yet to answer my question...how do you masturbate on its own(without thinking about a woman?)

as per being too busy to answer, O boi na when i get chance i go answer oo!

So if I masturbate thinking about my wife what is my sin?

You are trying a tad too hard. Pace yourself. You are the one who has called it a sexual sin yet you are asking me if there is another means of extracting the semen. So, if a doctor (whether male or female) holds the man's private part is the doctor sinning? After all, should touching another man's private part not be a sin?

Keep trapping yourself in gabble.

MiddleDimension:
the guy who wrote into the programme where Oyakhs made that famous statement, was not a married man. He is probably in his late teens/early 20s (and at this stage in life, i think it is normal for people to masturbate. For me, the guy only got worried about nothing).

So the situation Oyakhilome was responding to, is very clear. Hhe wasn't responding to a case where a married man who needed to give sperm for fertility test was confused if the process of producing the semen was contradictory to his faith. He was responding to a situation where a habitual masturbator, who does the act because he probably doesn't have a woman, for whatever reason and wants to relief himself of sexual tension.

From Jesus' perspective as given in the bible, he said: "whoever looks at a woman lustfully, and in his heart, desires to have her, is guilty of sin". So, technically, you might say that Jesus would consider this young man's case to be a sin; since he is unmarried and gratifies himself and in the process, think of having a woman he probably has seen at work, neighbourhood, school, club, church, etc.

I, as an atheist, think that Jesus' position is not a very fair one especially when the individual is masturbating to relief sexual tension. Jesus' admonition not to look at a woman and desire to have her is useful in order to prevent one from actually going to commit sexual crimes like rape etc. But to tell people not to have a picture of a desired lady in mind so as to help masturbate to relief sexual tension, is what i see as nonsense.

How did you come about the guy's marital status?

Pastor Chris said "masturbation in itself". That is what he said.

If someone lusts and masturbates as a result, he sinned by lusting. Jesus called LUST a sin. Period.

Ever8054:
since we started this argument I have quoted scriptures that are in line with statement,you only quoted one out of context so give me scriptures to defend your divorced,gate fee collector from people to worship God,auctioning of miracle cloths,receiving money from criminals and refusing to return it under the pretext of seed sowing and jerry curl pastor they will never fly over me...just try me with one pls.thank you

Pastor Chris is not under trial. If you read through my previous posts I have addressed most of what you have above.

I said most because you would need to look around the Pentecostal and Orthodox circles to find where miracle cloths were auctioned because that certainly did not occur in CEC.

If you still don't get the answers you want from my posts then I may not be of help to you.

I find it amusing how you have sidestepped the fact that you could not answer my questions to start throwing red herrings up and down. So funny.

donnie:
The problem with the guy Ever8054 is that he lacks basic intelligence. There are many of them on NL. Even though they try to use religion to cover up, it still shows.

I could not have said it any better.

Ever8054:
you have not answered my question which means you are short of ideas to defend your jerry curl man of god who is more concern with worldly things and not the teachings of our saviour..

The answer to your question is in my question to you. No need for scriptures as they would fly over you. So logic will do.

Ever8054:
so pastor Chris is jerry curling his hair because
..(a) other people are doing it
..(b) the bible he hold on the pulpit says so...?
pls direct answer ..a or b..no beating about the bush...

Your question does not even make sense. Why do you comb your hair or cut it or Iron your clothes?

Because other people are doing it?

Because the bible says so?

Kaysalas:
o.k, lemme kinda play along; masturbation is the purposeful act of touching sex organs in order to bring about sexual pleasure
now, that i defined it for you, can you please tell me how masturbation is not a sin?

A man is having fertility treatment and part of the conditions is to submit semen for testing. How would he provide the semen?

Ever8054:
.....(so other Nigerians including pastors) so, did CE church learn the act from the workd?...the bible said "ye are the light of the world"..which means the world aught to learn from the church and not the church to learn from the world..ur point has just let out what you have been struggling to cover up all along..thanks for reminding me,that the world is really shining its light on CE...

Your statement is dumb. There are other Nigerian and foreign pastors who Jerry Curl their hair but you don't go on their threads to make all this hoopla.

It just shows me you are a fan of CEC but don't know how to go about it.

Ever8054:
if iam a fan of the ministry I will just sag my trouser and jerycoil my hair and walk in...the ushers will just smile and take me to the front row...

Jerry curl and sag trousers? In a gathering of 15k CEC men, perhaps only 10 may have a jerry curl on and sag their trousers (nothing wrong with both). But it shows the nature of your mind to think that the tail of a dog wags the dog and not the other way around.

So other Nigerians (including Pastors) don't Jerry curl their hairs? Why single CE out?

Like I said, you are a misdirected fanatic.

Ever8054:
best dress in the country as in worldly dressing or what...I live just a pole away from CEC on airport road Rumodumanya port Harcourt.. don't worry I will start taking pictures of your members from a hiding position,so that I will open a trend with here.make sure you don't come and tell me they are pictures from a night club but that's how they appear anyway!!. I got a different idea that you won't argue...make a video instead... lalalala..

Please keep taking pictures of them from your pole away. You really have a lot on your plate seeing the amount of time you have to conjure such a thought.

While you are at it, ask them if they are first timers or leaders.

I surmise you are a fan of the ministry but don't know how to go about it so you are packaging your obsession with feigned disdain. I know your type.

MiddleDimension:
from what i read in the christian bible, Judas did not betray Jesus because he disagreed with Jesus' calling, teaching and authority. Infact, the bible never insinuated it anywhere within its pages that he disagreed with Jesus at a point in time. The only thing that was said of him was that he suggested that Mary of Magdala should not have wasted the perfume on Jesus' feet; that she should have sold it and given the money to the poor. Of course he said that for the kind of person he was: a greedy thief.

He betrayed Jesus because he was greedy. He loved money and that's why he often times helped himself of the money bag that was commited to his care as the treasurer of thhe group. You can find this in the gospel of Luke.

Perhaps you should leave exegesis for actual Christians don't you think?

1. When other disciples called Jesus "Lord" Judas referred to him as "Teacher". That was all Jesus was to him. He questioned his status as the master whose position was non-negotiable.

2. To buttress this, he felt Mary Magdalene's gift to Jesus was not worthy of him. If he truly believed Jesus was the messiah he would not have said so.

3. Jesus referred to Judas as the "son of Perdition". In Christian parlance that means he rejected Christ's salvation despite it being provided to him like it was to Peter (who also denied Jesus) but he tossed it aside for self-righteousness which is why he committed suicide despite knowing better having walked with Jesus for 3 years.

Judas is no different from any Agnostic, Atheist or persons of other religions who believe that Jesus was just a good teacher who had some good teachings. Jesus has to be seen for who he is which is Lord and God. If you countervene this, then you are questioning his calling, teaching and authority. Period.

Ever8054:
Judas betrayal of Jesus Christ was a prophecy fulfilled..and Judas never accused Jesus of any wrong doing..so if you said Anita betrayed Chris for same reason that Judas betrayed,you can as well tell me when it was prophecies that Anita would betray Chris,and the book where I can find it,cause its not in the scripture. or is it in rhapsody of reality?.. Una funny shaa...

You people try too hard to appear knowledgeable. Which prophecy mentioned Judas' name? Did Peter not betray Jesus too with cussing?

Nobody said Pastor Anita betrayed anybody. The same way Judas disagreed with Jesus' teachings, calling and authority, the same could happen to any MOG. That is what I meant. Dermas and Paul is another example.

Ever8054:
chaii...people can lie for Christ embassy.. indecent dressing that is the trade mark of that denomination...

The same regurgitated lies. I have been there for a decade. If you saw someone indecently dressed, it was in a crusade or outreach or a first timer in a church service. CEC men and women are the best dressed in the country. Quote me.

Kaysalas:
bro, u SERIOUSLY NEED HELP. there is nothing like "masturbation on its own". masturbation is masturbation! PERIOD!
u might as well excuse STEALING ON ITS OWN, ADULTERY ON ITS OWN because the sinner has a reason for doing it. pray, tell me, how do you masturbate without the thought of a beautiful well rounded woman in your mind? O Boi, you have been brainwashed, you need auto reset ASAP!

You are trying too hard. What is masturbation?

Ever8054:
you with high level of wisdom can not defend the nudity and worldly activities going on in your hip-hop denomination.. lol

You are the only person seeing the nudity. I attended a meeting between June 28- July 1 that had more than 15k people in attendance and I saw no single indecently dressed lady. Not like I was looking for anyone though.

Ever8054:
can you tell me why she put him away?..cause she mentioned improper relationship with his female members,so what the heck are you saying?

Same reason Judas betrayed Jesus.

bentuzene:
Answer to No. 1, The Bible explains how to deal with misunderstandings in Matt 18:15-17 he should try that with a bit of patience.

Answer to No. 2, Same thing that shows a good Christian, Character... If the family excels, the entirety of the neighborhood or community they live in would feel it as the family is the building block of the society.

Answer to No. 3, Does that mean that if you don not pick a fight with your family members, you are not at oneness with Jesus? I highly doubt that but it rather means that those who cause you to err his will when you serve him can not be at peace with you just as light and darkness do not sit on the same seat.

Note that in all of these peace is still key and one can live in peace with his family and yet serve God effectively.

1. So after you try patience and it does not work what next?

2. You mean like Jesus' family and neighbourhood?

3. So if that is the case what are you talking about?

zyzybee:
she didnt bother to take her kids how? They are adults. Their father manipulated them against thir will to stay and save his face. He tried to turn the children's heart against their mom but ee nor work.

The greatest tragedy is people who know diddly squat would always post without reservations.

holybabayo:
God bless you. God almighty bless you a million time. I have learnt that there is no new sin. Good point. Sagging is a thing that I will do with fear so it is a sin to me. You can sag. Good for you. But if I see you sagging and tell you stop sagging that is a sin, What will be your response? Your answer is very important and it will have implications so think very well before you answer.

God bless you too.

If I am his leader, I would stop doing it in public so his faith does not stumble. It is my love for christ and my brothers under my fold that propels me to act that way. I am however not responsible to some other person who is not in my fold. Jesus ate with sinners remember.

Here is Paul's take: Keep the belief that you have to yourself—it’s between you and God. People are blessed who don’t convict themselves by the things they approve.
Romans 14:22 CEB

chinedumo:
dont take this the wrong way.

How exactly did that seduction try to take place?

How were you saved by the pee

You are asking a hypocrite and liar who said he left a church because of indecency in dressing and immorality, yet the same person says he still goes to the church every now and then to have a fling. Is that not grossly stu.pid?

I thought he left because of immorality, yet he is still immoral where he is currently. Which means him and not CE, was the problem.

holybabayo:
My brother in faith. I must say I enjoy the major way we are discussing. We don't know it all and we are all trying to learn. in fact it is not knowledge that will help us, it is true love for each other. That is why I will like you to quote me very very well.
"The teachers he called false are those who give heed to Jewish fables and commandments of men". Look at the verse very well. It says especially they of the circumcision. That means even those of grace can make the same mistake.
"that brother sags his trouser therefore he is not a true Christian". Now this is not my statement. i quote this to explain a wrong use of the scriptures. This your point of open the bible and show me where it is written that sagging is a sin. Well my brother there is no such quote in the bible. But I will ask you a question, Is the word of God a living thing or an inanimate thing. Can the bible be outdated and does not have use for current situations? If recent evil occurs in our time and in the future can we really use the bible to make a judgement of whether it is right or wrong? Jesus may not come today or tomorrow or in a thousand years or millions of years. Some of the ideas we have now may all fade to oblivion. Would the bible be still relevant then? Will the bible really be a good book that the saint will use to judge this world in the judgement day. I say yes. There are new sins that were not there in the days of the bible like masturbation, smoking, drug abuse. Iniquity will still abound in the future. Can I say because this things are not in the bible, they are not sin. This are contrary to sound doctrine. Where did this phrase even come from. Is this phrase from God or the devil. If we were even talking about somebody going overboard in his/her zeal for God like not eating some unclean food, or fasting 2wise in a week etc. We can even say we have an argument. But we are here talking about sagging, masturbation etc. Oh God help our children.

If something is not in the bible, you cannot call it sin. That is the first concept of sin. The 2nd concept of sin is that if you personally feel something is a sin and you do it, you are defiled whereas someone who does not see it as sin, it is not sin to him. (Rom 14:14).

You make an argument that the bible is eternal and you are right but there is nothing like new sins. All sins are embedded in selfishness and fear. If you study the outlined sins in the bible you would agree with this.

With this in mind, you can tell why certain things are sins and others are not. For example, Jesus said lust is a sin. To lust is to desire someone that does not belong to you, sexually. That craving to have what does not belong to you thereby thinking of yourself alone is selfishness.

How again is masturbation in itself a sin? How is sagging a sin? If a married man is going for a fertility test and he masturbates to provide semen is he sinning? That is why masturbation in itself cannot be a sin. But sure, if a man watches pornography and masturbates as a result the sin there is lust which led him to watch porn and then masturbate. So no matter what happens in the future, what will be sin will still be rooted in the foundations and branches of sin. This is sound doctrine.

holybabayo:
A LOOK AT 'TO THE PURE ALL THINGS ARE PURE"
Titus 1
10 For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision:
11 Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake.
12 One of themselves, even a prophet of their own, said, The Cretians are alway liars, evil beasts, slow bellies.
13 This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;
14 Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.
15 Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.
16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

Now from the context this was a guide against false teachers. They were unruly, vain talkers and deceivers. Most of the were of the Circumcision believers, but some were in the grace teachers. Now they subvert a whole family just to fill their pockets. They teach human principles and turn away from the truth. They say they know God but but they commit sin freefall. These are the people that are impure here.
Using this quote to mean "if you say sagging is a sin your mind is impure" is a wrong use of the scripture. Paul here was condemning specifics actions. He did not say "what these teachers are doing is ok. If you think otherwise your mind is impure". He is saying "please quickly stop these guys from teaching their trash because their very minds are impure are they are spewing dirty trashes" Don't quote the scripture out of context.

Let me add Jude 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
Now while grace free us from the demands of the Law there is a chance that some people could turn it to lasciviousness (or licentiousness or licence to sin). That is something that teachers should guide against. I no call any church name o.

You are trying to be smart by half but you are still wide of the mark. The teachers he called false are those who give heed to Jewish fables and commandments of men. That is why he added that if you are pure, you would see things purely but if you are one to propagate the doctrines of men over God's word you would see things as impure even when you are the problem.

You say "that brother sags his trouser therefore he is not a true Christian". You are simply teaching a doctrine of men. There is nothing in scripture that says sagging is a sin. For someone whose heart is pure, you would learn to see people the way God sees them especially when they are brothers in the faith. Paul said, now that I know Christ therefore I refuse to know any other man after the flesh. In other words, Paul made it a conscious effort to see men only by the spirit and not by what his flesh was dictating to him.

Learn from Paul.

Kirigidi:
It's not a matter of been carnally minded. Not every wrongdoing is specified in the Bible yet they are likely not right in the sight of GOD. For instance, taking cocaine, dressing half-naked, watching pornography, producing or selling fake drugs/ products knowingly. May GOD always show us mercy.

The Bible says sin is wrongdoing but not all wrongdoing is sin. You people should read up abeg.

dhardline:
From your explanation of that verse if a killer kills and you see it then it's pure to you, if one someone steals and you see it then it's pure to you. Even Our Lord Jesus Christ chased those who turned His Father's house to a den of thieves as He called them.
Bros please don't twist the scriptures just to condone sin. Call sin by its name that way you will flesh from it. Shalom

There is no twisting of scripture. You don't even know it to begin with. Jesus said what defiles a man is what he does in reaction to what he sees and not what he sees Matt 15:11. He would go further to say that sin is the condition of a man's heart. Blasphemies, fornications, false witnesses, murders, evil thoughts etc are all proceeds of the way a man's heart is.

So forget what you think you know. A man whose heart is pure towards God will see the same things a sinner sees but will give a different reaction. He would see someone who is young in the faith but has the potential to be a General for God's army and he would cry out in intercession for the Spirit of God to reach out to that one and lift them up because he realizes only God can. But someone who is full of lust and evil thoughts would see that same sister and become uncomfortable because his heart is conditioned that way.

You people talk about sisters indecently dressed but I have attended so many meetings with the MOG and I have not seen people dressed improperly except a few people here and there in crusades and outreaches. And guess what? Such people are never leaders or committed members. They are usually people who were invited for programs from the streets or brothels and when they want to give an excuse for not attending, the inviter will tell them to come to church that way. That is how aggressive one needs to be to win souls. Jesus told Zaccheaus to come to God the way he was and religious people were angry yet they were the sinners and Jesus was pure.

Nothing has changed today.

Eaugusta:
Unfortunately no one is paying attention to this point. We need more of CHRISTIANS.

We all forget the fact that we cannot be Christian by being a member of any church, but can proudly be a member of any church by being a true christian.

You can't be a member of any church by being a true Christian. You are a member of a church when you share the vision of the church and God has called you to be there. In such a situation, you are not at sea with the goings-on but understand everything because your reason for being there is spiritual and not carnal or fleshly.

Jesus lost some disciples because they could not handle his teachings. It is the same today. I mean, if you are a genuine believer in the words of Jesus how would you sit comfortably when people shout "die die die" for their perceived enemies when Jesus told us to love them and pray for them? Or how would you chase children away who came to feast on the word of God so they can GROW thereby and you tell them to go and "dress properly"?

I can guarantee you, the flow of God's spirit will be limited in such gatherings and when they see other supposed carnal christians who don't dress well achieve more than them they accuse them of being fake or they just have deep-seated envy for them. Meanwhile, Jesus told us the kingdom belongs to babes- those who are ready to take him at his word, without fleshly reasonings.