₦airaland Forum

You want to sell a book so the best option is to lie with CEC because you know it will attract crowds.

Ride on.

donnie:
1. From your comment I can tell that you neither watched the pastor's message nor the videos i posted.
2. Did the girl tell you she was your spirit wife or you deduced from the wrong teachings of others which obviously you have believed?
3. Are you born again?
4. If your answer to question 3 is yes, where was the marriage between you and spirit wife conducted and by who?
5. If your answer to question 3 is NO, then you must be born again. Give your heart to Jesus and submit to His word and authority and all will be well.
6. You have been suffering from demonic oppression. If you're a Christian, stand on His Word and rebuke that devil and refuse to believe or imagine those satanic lies about marriage.
7. I do not doubt your experiences, but we have a bible, a more sure Word of prophecy to stick to until the day dawn. Unless you will rather have us believe in you and your experiences above God's Word?

Your questions are so insightful your reasoning even better. It can only come from God.

Question 2 rattled me. Because it is something we gloss over without even thinking about.

How did they come to know about it? If a demon was the one that told them, so we now take the testimony of demons?

It is clear that a teaching was believed before this experience. And that is the connection. Other wise, how did they know that it was spiritual husband or wife?

shadeyinka:
James 5:14
Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:

This is the scripture, but it isn't the formulae for healing. Of course people will misuse any scripture.

I used Keneth Haggins example because the fact that monkeys do not exist in the bible does not make his experience false.

James 5:14-16 King James Version (KJV)
14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:

15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him

King James translation should have read: and let them anoint him with oil, and pray over him in the name of the Lord.

Because the oil is customary and plays no role in the prayer of faith. To prove this, James states what provokes the healing: I emboldened it.

donnie:
Don't mind them

Thanks for the correction. While he was at LoveWorld USA Studio with Benny Hinn, I thought I heard him say grand father though. I could be wrong.

shadeyinka:
Hence a demon can assume the position of a spouse to a demonized. That had been my point all along

And the assumption has spurred on a teaching on spiritual husband and wife? Can you not spot the error?

Where did I say their experiences are not real?

I said their experiences will not derive a nomenclature or teaching. That is the error.

shadeyinka:
I think I do understand your position. The only problem is that you look at it narrowly!

There are two sets of people involved
1. The one casting out the demons
2. The one of whom demons is being cast out

The one casting out the demons should trivialise demonic activities because he knows his position in Christ.

However, to the one who has a demon, it is a spiritual reality that she is being tormented by a demon who refers to himself as her husband.

This is what I think pastor Chris was saying.

A demon was saying through a young woman to me "..I will kill you...did this woman say she need deliverance?". I simply told her it wasn't possible because Gods angels watches over me.

She turned to look round the hall as if over 300 angels were around the hall (me I didn't see any angel, I just spoke by faith) and finally faced me quiet. I said, do you see why you cannot kill me!? All I did was to remember the scriptures " nothing shall by any means hurt you...he shall bid his angels charge over you..". That should be the position of a christian.

Where I think we differ is that you seem to trivialise the experience of the demonized as if "these are not spiritual reality" for her.

Spiritual spouse may exist, but to a believer, they are powerless. That is scripture. No matter the name of the demon, they are inconsequential before a spirit filled child of God. A demon who calls himself Lucifer and the one who call himself jovial are in the same category: INCONSEQUENTIAL! That is the position of a child of God when dealing with them.

And honestly that is what I think Pastor Chris was saying.

shadeyinka:
But you are saying everything I haven't as if that's my position. Your bias is overly strong.

Nobody said a person can be demonized by just one spirit. There could be several different classes/types/entities. You just don't cast out one demon and start rejoying: you cast all out. That is when total freedom begins.

You make is sound like everyone who is used in deliverances and he is not from CEC is LOOKING for Spirit Spouse to Cast out. Far from it.

I don't know whether you are using the reports you read in the news as the yard stick for your judgement.

Your belief system about the rest of the body of Christ is highly skewed.

Interestingly, I don't believe there is anyone created by God as homosexuals. For me, all homosexual tendencies are demonically induced. I don't know if you feel otherwise.

If you say that not all infirmities are of demonic origin, I concur. If you say not all dumbness is demonic but when issues like kleptomania, nymphomania, etc exist on a person, demons are involved. As usually, I know you will get me wrong and go at tangent: I am not saying all stealing are demonic or all fornications are demonic.

You are rigmaroling.

I am using your own words to question what you believe.

I don’t know where I mentioned that anyone who does not see things the CE way is totally wrong.

Or is that the position you want to paint me with to somehow console yourself?

You are insisting on spirit spouses. When I ask probing questions you immediately say I am condemning the whole body of Christ.

How did you come up with spirit spouse? Is it not the same reasoning that brought up cocacola demon as well? In case you don’t know that is what it is.

That is why I am insisting on the word.

Whatever the demon said or assumed is excluded. I don’t get my revelation from them.

For you all homosexual tendencies are demonic? Well to me, not all are. Some people dabble in and out of it out of sinful curiosity that is necessarily not demonic.

Obviously, most of the homosexual cases are demonic. Goes without saying.

shadeyinka:
In view of forcing correctness because Pastor Chris said it is where you got it very wrong.

A demon in the scriptures is described by what it does.


A Mute Spirit causes dumbness
A Spirit of infirmity causes physical infirmities
A demon of fear causes fear
etc
Its just a designation

In the light of this, when a demon spirit causes homosexuality, using the rules above, what do you arrive at as a designation?

"A spirit of homosexuality"!

You seem to speak naively when you said


Who said only one demon can exist in a body!?
Who said any thing like the only demons that afflict people are spiritual spouses!?

If a person has 10 demons and you cast out only 2, you have only created a day or two of relief. A person is free only when ALL demons afflicting him are driven out.

And no one has said until you know their names before you can cast them out. Many times in deliverances, demons go out in gangs.



You are still using extreme example to discuss with me. I do not subscribe to making doctrines out of experiences. Experiences only validate and help us understand the logos. Experiences are products of stepping out in faith.

You talk like no other set of Christians have the gifts of discernment of Spirits or as if all deliverances are done in the flesh.

Your spiritual arrogance is well exhibited in this post. Only CEC members are lead by Gods spirit is the summary of what you just said.

Even after I have said I listen to many MOG and value their ministries?

I don’t disagree with most of this except in your own palpable lack of understanding of my position.

What people experience does not make it right. I hope you get it.

Someone said they saw Mary appear to them to tell them to pray rosaries. Did they experience it?yes.

But I know it is not scriptural so I declare it null and void.

In the same way, someone experienced a demon telling them they are espoused to them. I don’t doubt their experience.

But is it scriptural? No. So I cast out the demon and leave it be.

No dramatic explanation of covenant or marriage to spirits. I know it is simply a demon lying to feel more attached to the person.

Donnie mentioned Attachment demon. Because at some point some people experienced demonic attacks after they claimed they purchased a hair attachment.

Therefore attachement Demon? Come on!

That demon could have even come through the person’s fear but the manifestation will make ignorant people say it came from the attachment.

Measure everything by the word.

shadeyinka:
I think we are somehow saying the same thing except that you assume an extreme position for those who believe that demons exist who assume the role of spouse in some peoples life.

A lot of times in deliverance, it is the Holy Spirit who direct you on what to do. Sometimes, He says don't touch/lay hands on her. And in obedience, you don't touch till you complete your assignment. Sometimes, just after you cast out a demon, the Holy Spirit tells you that there is still another one inside don't stop praying for her yet. And sometimes a demon will pretend to go out but the Holy Spirit will tell you..it is a fake, the demon is just acting.

So, its not by rules, it is as led by the Holy Spirit. Are people making drama and merchandise out of deliverance? Of course, I don't condone them.

I think you see it like those who believe spiritual spouses exist just jump on people to cast out spiritual husbands. No, it doesn't work that way.

Casting out demons is not even a proof of spirituality or even maturity. Its the children's bread! It takes only faith in the word to do what Christ said "this signs shall follow them that believe..."

That is probably why you see people who are doctrinally unbalanced or matured in deliverance ministration. But the point is that not every one is like that.

So, I think you over generalize by assuming that every body else are ignorant of spiritual dynamics.

I have not personally dealt with this but I've heard of a woman who regularly have sex with a dog. Is this a spiritual reality? I think so! It just simply means that a demon takes the form of a dog to sleep with her. Should it be made a doctrine? Certainly not!

shadeyinka:
A demon in the form of a monkey!

The question is do you believe this? (For no monkey exist in the bible)


Should the body of Christ Cancel the use of anointing oil because some Christians are misusing it!

When you say things like this, you expose your ignorance in the word.

A demon can take any form. It does not mean the demon is that form. Just the way the Holy Spirit descended like a dove will, did not make him a dove or because he appeared in the form of a wind whenever people feel any wind they say it is the Holy Spirit.

Kenneth Hagin did not say Monkey demon. He said he saw a demon in the form of a monkey. It could have been a camel or tortoise or a pig. It was simply a demon.

No, you are just trying hard to force your little experience on us. I have told you severally that you do not know who you are talking to so you would know why the word is all that should be debated.

Zechariah, John the Baptist’s father was made mute till John was born. So did God send a demon of muteness to him?

I told you that just because someone is displaying homosexual tendencies does not mean that they have a spirit of homosexuality. That is judging spiritual issues by observation and that is foul.

That very same demon (not another one) can be responsible for making such a person not only homosexual, but a thief, and broke all at the same time.

If you call him homosexual demon and cast him out in Jesus name he will stop displaying those tendencies yet the other ones you did not call out will still be manifestations he will go on to show later.

What happens next? They will bring the person to you another time for Spirit of Kleptomania to go. And another time for spirit of poverty. LOL

That is why some of you guys keep praying over and over and over over the same demon.

Demons are not fools. They recognize spiritual authority and wisdom in people. If you show them you are ignorant in one area, they will capitalize on it.

It is through knowledge (not experience) that the just are delivered.

shadeyinka:
In view of forcing correctness because Pastor Chris said it is where you got it very wrong.

A demon in the scriptures is described by what it does.


A Mute Spirit causes dumbness
A Spirit of infirmity causes physical infirmities
A demon of fear causes fear
etc
Its just a designation

In the light of this, when a demon spirit causes homosexuality, using the rules above, what do you arrive at as a designation?

"A spirit of homosexuality"!

You seem to speak naively when you said


Who said only one demon can exist in a body!?
Who said any thing like the only demons that afflict people are spiritual spouses!?

If a person has 10 demons and you cast out only 2, you have only created a day or two of relief. A person is free only when ALL demons afflicting him are driven out.

And no one has said until you know their names before you can cast them out. Many times in deliverances, demons go out in gangs.



You are still using extreme example to discuss with me. I do not subscribe to making doctrines out of experiences. Experiences only validate and help us understand the logos. Experiences are products of stepping out in faith.

You talk like no other set of Christians have the gifts of discernment of Spirits or as if all deliverances are done in the flesh.

Your spiritual arrogance is well exhibited in this post. Only CEC members are lead by Gods spirit is the summary of what you just said.

engrelvis:
young man I dnt understand ur aggressiveness.u want to lecture me on history of pastor Chris.for yr information Mr know it all am from Edo state. My friend architect osahon was a classmate of of chris at ekpoma when I was reading civil engineering at Uniben.like I told u yesterday am done with u n yr insultive one sided argument.am nt under obligation to explain anything to u.i said I heard an audio of pastor Chris in d early 2000 .how deos dat translate to Christ embassy starting in early 2000? U v problem

I am aggressive when I see a boldfaced lie and you tell a lot of them.

Why do you think this Uniben and Osahon story mean anything? Were there not people who disbelieved Jesus saying they knew his father and mother?

My argument is one-sided because you simply cannot read.

I mean, I called cases of Pastor Chris explaining demonic influences as far back as the 70s and 80s and you are telling me he did not believe in them in the 2000s only start believing in them again.

Are you seeing the glaring illogicality?

You are just talking rubbish.

Pastor Chris told you he did not believe in demons in his early days?

When were his early days?

Hope you know he was already ministering as a 15 year old?

Hope you know he is from a family of pastors including his great grand father who brought Assemblies of God to Nigeria.

Hope you know as a young Uni student he was going to shrines with his friends and praying to neuter the activities of the native doctors which at some point even chased him and his friends away when they noticed their juju stopped working.

So tell me how he believed praying could remove demonic influence from a shine as a 21 year old yet you say he did not believe in demons in his early days?

You think CE started in 2000?

engrelvis:
Churches will continue to metamorphose in terms of ideology n beliefs as d only spirit continue to open their leaders or G.O eyes.10 or 20yrs most G.O beliefs will change again .in d early days of pastor Chris I listen to an audio of his when he said he deos nt believe demons exist n those people who believe demons talk through people r nonsense.over d years he has change his stance.he now believe dey exist .compare oyedepo,kumuyi ,adeboye early teachings n now.dey differ slightly.as Christians u will continue to discover n learn new things about God every day.our best teacher is d only spirit.is d one who can discern d deep n show us understanding .our church leaders r nt God.when dey tell u something go into spirit n seek God face n answer.after all these draw yr conclusion.is when holy spirit tell me something dat i conclude.v left Abuja for Lagos around 12midnite .I was sleeping n he tap me to start going to Lagos .I obeyed without argument.dat is a story for another day.what I am saying in essence is for us to tune in to holy ghost frequency as r we reading Lord words.christainity is practical n nt theoretical.nobody has sole knowledge of God words n d way he deos his things

donnie:
Did he say the demon looked like a monkey or he called it "monkey spirit"? Cos I've read Kenneth Hagin's book: The Triumphant Church.



Cancel what really? And from what, or where?

I was about to type this. Hagin repeated the story so many times. Even in Belivers authority. I have also watched many tapes of him. He said the demon looked like a monkey and not that it was a monkey spirit.

daveP:
this is the issue here. you presume I support the idea of deliverance that we see today and that's what you're using to reply me. pls redirect your servers.


I am against any one merchandisibg the gift of God for money. such a person is a son ofbthe devil. Similar to Simon the sorcerer.

But conducting deliverance is very much part of the church's duty and anyone among the 5fild is equipped to conduct it. making it a special ministry that only a select few can do is wrong

I see your point.

Well, we were not told to conduct deliverance sessions. We were told to proclaim; tell people God has delivered them.

No man can deliver another man.

Casting out demons is not delivering people. The ability to cast out demons is because of the deliverance that christ made for us through his death and resurrection.

Someone else has addressed the nephilims issue so I would not need to rehash it. When you say something is sexless (asexual)it means they can take up any sex as a manifestation.

Whatever a demon assumes does not mean anything. That is why their assumption does not count in spiritual mature discussions.

That a demon is responsible for homosexuality does not mean there is a demon of homosexuality. I pray you get it. You can cast out that demon yet the person in question will go on to become murderous (serial killer) or become promiscuous with people of the opposite sex.

For spiritually mature men, when you hear them say “thou spirit of deafness, come out...in Jesus name” etc they are not just saying it because deaf people are there. They are saying it by the leading of the Holy Spirit.

If you do not make doctrines out of your experiences that is good. And I never said anyone who is not a CEC member is on the opposite end. There are many good churches all over the world many of which I respect and listen to.

Do spiritual spouses exist in the way you are describing? No.

Demons exist who could manifest themselves that way to the unsuspecting to make them feel they are bound to them. Many weak Christians have lost marriages and partners for this same ignorance. That is why I am using my God-given mandate to PREACH their deliverance to them.

shadeyinka:
You still are adamant in not even trying to understand me.

I said:
By the way:
A spiritual spouse is simply a demon who assumes a marriage relationship with the demonized.
It doesn't mean that their was an actual consentual marriage rite between them.

Demons are supposed to be sexless: but that dosnt say like the fallen angels of old, some claim sexual ownership of some of their prey. Angels are sexless, so how did the fallen angels ("sons of God" have sex with daughters of Men to give birth to "Nephillims?

I am not talking about homosexuality in itself but the demon responsible. The scripture condemn homosexuality in no equivocal manner. BUT the scripture DID NOT mention anything like the spirit of Homosexuality. Does it mean they don't exist?

That's the question I want you to answer!

Of course people will always create doctrine with anything from praying into water, depending on anointing oil, anointing handkerchiefs etc. But NOT every christian is like that. I can never be in support of creating spiritual talisman in the name of Christ. This view is not exclusive to CE membership. But, you seem to make it look like every body agrees with it except CE members. No, this is wrong.

So, since you know my position, don't use extreme examples which does not hold any scriptural validation.

Now, even though I don't agree with making doctrine out of them, it doesn't mean that in themselves they are scripturally wrong. For instance, there was a time I had fever and no immediate access to drugs: I took a glass of water prayed over it ("Let this water become drug in my body in Jesus mighty name". And I was healed! That was how I was led then. Do I make it rule? No! That would be wrong. Just like Jesus once healed a blind man by using clay: Jesus wasn't setting a rule for us. He was acting as Led by the Holy Spirit.

So, it is scripturally wrong to establish doctrine by experiences.

Back to the issue on ground, Do spiritual spouses exist?

According to you and Pastor Chris, No!
Reasons, the bible did not categorically mention it and Pastor Chris says they dont exist! (You may addbother reasons)

Me, I believe they do exist!

Now, my question is, Do you think spirit of insanity exist?

shadeyinka:
I think sometimes that the issue has to do with accepting everything a man of God says as gospel truth. Pastor Chris does not condemn Masturbation, I do! Almost all CE member take the position of Pastor Chris simply because he is a man of God. But men of God are not infallible. They are still human despite the anointing.

Looking at the scripture, we have some kind of demons mentioned

1. Spirit of Infirmity: because they are responsible for the infirmity in their victim
2. Deaf and dumb spirit: because that is what they have done
3. Spirit of fear: for that's what they do

From the scripture, we can see a pattern. Demons are described by their function. (Would that be their personal name? I don't think so!)

Now, how unscriptural do you think it would be to name demons as demons of homosexuality, demons of hate, suicidal spirit, etc?

How about Spiritual Husbands/Wife?

If Spiritual Spouses do not exist, then we can categorically say that no demons exist that has not being named in the scriptures.

Do you believe that there exist demons like suicide spirits?

In 2009, I already argued with a friend of mine that smoking like masturbation in themselves were not sins. Pastor Chris question answering session was in 2011. You are essentially doing what you accuse me of which is assuming I don’t study scripture for myself. I am under his tutelage and mentorship because he elevated my own preconceived understandings and he demonstrates the reality of God’s word in a way no other MOG I have come in contact does (and I have listened to many MOGs).

Again, none of those spirits were characterized by what they did but simply by what the author of truth -the Holy Spirit- called them.

That is why I pointed you to the deaf and dumb spirit in a boy yet the manifestations were not related to being deaf and dumb at all.

With my experience with demons, I know that a demon can be in a persons heart yet that person might be having swellings in their belly.

There are 2 funny stories I have experienced with Pastor Chris. Once I heard him say he was told by the Holy Spirit to place his hand on a woman’s head yet on the placard she was holding she had an issue with her stomach. She tried to place his hands on her tummy but he corrected her. I heard later that when she went to her doctor (who confirmed her totally healed BTW) he told her that he did a CAT scan on her previously because they noticed a tumor was building in her head (but he did not tell her because they were not sure it was benign or malignant).

The point is there are certain things that only the Holy Spirit can determine. Trust him and leave sense knowledge teachings. Jesus said the kingdom of God is not determined by careful observation. You don’t look and say because this and this happened, then it is so and so. No it is wrong.

My 2nd story is about Benny Hinn and Pastor Chris. They were ministering together and after Benny prayed for a woman who said she was healed of something else (can’t remember what) as she was going, Pastor Chris called her back and cast out a demon he said he could see hanging to her lungs area.

Guess what? She admitted to him that she was also asthmatic. Yet that is not what she came out to testify she was healed of.

That is why we don’t just call demons by their functions. When you trust God by his word ALONE he will guide you into all truth and show you things experience will never teach you.

shadeyinka:
No, that's not my conclusion
The most of you I have met (may be limited) show that you have zeal (especially the ladies) but no experience.

That's my experience.

Even in unexpected places (churches) you see exceptional Christians.

Of course I could be biased. The church was filled with Young people (mainly undergraduates). And every Sunday was like a competition of dress rehearsals for a party. One thing I enjoyed then was the worship time.

And it looks as if you feel like every body has elevated experience above Gods word. That isn't the truth.

If Spirit of Homosexuality exists, why should we say spiritual spouses doesn't exist.

By the way:
A spiritual spouse is simply a demon who assumes a marriage relationship with the demonized.
It doesn't mean that their was an actual consentual marriage rite between them.

It just means that the demon is possessive. (In actual sense there may be no marriage)

It is not different from when a demon says "he is my servant!". Its a claim by the demon. The demonized doesn't even have to be aware that he has a slavemaster

You are talking about homosexuality as if it is not backed by scripture.

Again I repeat because demons manifested a certain way does not give us leeway to arrogate anything to them.

There is no spiritual marriage as spirit beings are sexless. That demon manifesting sexually to a woman as a man could have as well been showing feminine tendencies. Is it now a spiritual wife to the woman?

There is a lot of sense knowledge teachings. That is why people have made handkies and oil full blown teachings in the church even when there is no place in the word for that.

I am sure you are aware some people still cast lots and argue that they saw the disciples do so in the bible. I am sure you probably don’t agree with it yet they will argue that it is their experience.

You are not extreme, which is fine but a drop of poison in potable water is still poisonous water.

daveP:
Phew.... Okay, since you're more receptive than him. Lemme break it down.

First lets remove the stereotype definition that has been given this ministry.

The Great Commission is hinged on deliverance. Keyword here is Liberation. That's what exactly Christ came to do. From who did he come to deliver? Those under the oppression of the devil and his demons.

So what is that called? A ministry. (Not the one we call ministry on the streets these days. Get the definition of ministry and follow me)

Back to Mark, He recorded majorly all the miracles of deliverance as done by Christ Jesus. Dakes Bible footnotes and Summary take it as a compilation of the deliverance ministry of Jesus.

Next as he ascended, he handed over to every believer the same power to do deliverance as well. Thus those final words while he was up going. Getting me?


Calling, or Office is different from Ministry.


I can minister in songs, food giving, almgiving. Those are all ministries my bro.


The 5fold Offices are callings and they all are equipped with the deliverance ministry cos they are with the power that Jesus used as well to do so.

So not only can these 5 perform the act of deliverance, every believer can... and we all know that it takes some level of knowledge of the scriptures and dedication to God that one can operate in such a ministry.


It must be a believer. That is the requirement. Simple.

It's why the seven sons of Sceva could not cast out that demon.

One demon possessed guy beat up seven mature men, and rendered them naked sotey na window last last dem use escape, and someone on here is telling me that demons don't have power?

The demoniac of Gardarenes, he was breaking thick chains cos of the demons in him, and someone on here is telling me that's not power. Since that's not the angle I'm taking with you, I'll just pause here.


So you see that the ministry exist just like other ministries.


The writing on those buildings are not the definition. In fact Ministries are minute parts of the entirety of what the church supposed to be.


Nowhere in Mark is the call for dedicating to such ministry. It's a compilation of the deliverance aspect of the Ministry of Christ. The major one. I. e delivering man from bondage of sin and demons. Since that exist in the Bible, then we have proof that deliverance ministry exists.

So Jesus fed 5000 did he also have a feeding ministry?

He washed his disciples feet, did he also have a washing feet ministry?

I know the varied meanings of the word ministry. And yes the music ministry, healing ministry all find their place in Gods word.

I am yet to see a deliverance ministry in the way you have described it above.

The great commission was clear; we were to preach a message to people telling them about how Christ has DELIVERED them.

That ministry is not dedicated to casting out devils or interpreting dreams and charging consultation fees.

Any ministry that finds its place in God’s word was specific; to bring/win others to God not place in bondage through deliverance sessions and dependency on handkies and oil.

shadeyinka:
We have the same mind set about faith in use.

However, how can you tell someone who has encounter demons who call themselves husbands/wife of a person that such doesn't exist?

If you have never encounted such, it is wrong to say they don't exist. Did the bible give us an exhaustive list of demons?

That is the point.

That is the problem.

You don’t teach anything based on experience that is why that name is wrong.

Jesus spat once and used it to heal a blind man. What he taught was that the Holy Spirit was the one who would guide into all truth. He did not go on to start teaching about “Holy Spit” and then spitting and placing them in bottles to be sold.

These are the issues Pastor Chris raises that I endorse.

Yes, in the first video that Donnie posted, he called out those cases of women who saw men in their dreams or felt like they ate poison etc. because he is aware that demons can manifest themselves that way.

Does not mean that is what they are called. Peter prayed that Jesus will not die on the cross and Jesus knew it was the devil’s voice. Yet someone else would have felt Peter was being caring.

You judge spiritual things ONLY by the word. No matter the experience you must maintain that God’s word is the final arbiter.

The summary is, because a demon was manifesting in a human like a snake does not mean what the person had was a “snake spirit”. It was a demon yes, you cast it out and declare the person free.

That snake-like manifestation physically may just be for something like a cancer but human teaching will make people say “he/she belongs to a cult where they worship snakes” and then new teachings will spur from this making satan’s Head swell about something he probably has no power over.

daveP:
Guy are you this unteachable?


The Great Commission is all about deliverance. Stop stereotyping the meaning of deliverance. Look up the meaning in the dictionary first. Ah

When you guys are cornered you start with this mumbo jumbo.

This is Jesus telling you that deliverance is preached. It is not a ministry. You proclaim to people that they have been delivered.

The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,

Luke 4:18

shadeyinka:
I am not disputing Gods Words: Impossible!

I am only asking why?

Why is it that after so much faith, prayers and confession of the word, some issues just refuse to bulge?

Yes, we all know what the Word of God says...and the word of God cannot be broken.

Would it be a valid statement that once a person becomes born again, he cannot be barren?

Certainly not (by experience) but by the Logos, it is impossible.

I think that's the same with some people. Born in affliction, but now born again but YET the afflictions seem not to bulge.

Can an unbeliever be demonized (I didn't say possessed)? Evidenced by works of Satan in their lives.

Can this nonbeliever become born again? Yes!

If such nonbeliever becomes born again but we are still seeing the evidence of Satan stealing, killing and destruction, would be insist that he isn't demonized because he is now born again?

This is the bone of contention

Jesus told his disciples not to bother knowing how a man was born blind. Their focus should be on how it can be undone. Simple.

I don't bother about whether some Christians are still poor, sickly or oppressed by demons.

God had already said "all of you are children of the most high (so he was referring to his kids but you die like men due to ignorance and lack of understanding". That reality has not changed.

You say after confessions and faith an issue did not change. But that is the process of vitally appropriating God's word..sometimes it takes time to manifest but it doesn't mean the faith and confessions did not work.

After all, Abraham talked faith for years before Isaac was born. So the 25 years he waited did not negate God's promise. That is exactly what Abraham believed and taught. Paul said so in Romans 4.

When Jesus cursed the fig tree, it still looked unchanged at that very moment.

You say some people became born again and still had issues that they had before getting born again. Well, I know someone who lost Asthma the very moment he too became born again. So you see, we have subjective experiences.

What do we do? We go back to the word. The word says the born again one is completely new and never existed before. Well, that is what God's word said which makes it a legal truth.

If such a person takes that word and acts that way vitally. Listen, SS will change to AA.

shadeyinka:
You needn't be abusive.

But, Yes maybe I can take you a little seriously.

Is your problem that you have never encountered demons making confessions through the demonized?

Or is it that you never encountered demons who say they are spiritual husbands/wife to the demonized?

Some Christians as a rule say they forbid demons to speak even when they begin to vomit words?

Which class do you belong to?

I think we can pick up from there.

BTW
I worshipped at Christ Embassy Gwagwalada Branch some years ago when I was doing a research program at Abuja. I didn't see anything super extraordinary with them. I enjoyed the worship ( the urshers and many church members were a distraction).

So, forgive me if I lumped all of you together. Bit the truth is that I think most of you "worship" pastor Chris while spiritual experience is zero.

The last part is soo funny.

Is spiritual experience seeing spiritual husbands or living God's word through and true?

And why does anyone feel the need to appeal to false experience when making a case.

I mean, I know jobless Harvard graduates therefore there are no exceptional students in Harvard. Your summary I guess.

daveP:
The entire Mark is focused on that bro. read from chapter one to 16.Its all about deliverance ministry.

Casting out of demons liberation and setting free.....

This is circumlocutory.

I have read the whole of Mark more than once. Says nothing about a ministry dedicated to deliverance.

In fact, Jesus said everyone who believes in his name will cast demons out.

So except I am missing something, point out direct verses talking about a specific deliverance ministry. I know about the Pastoral one, Prophetic, Evangelistic, Teaching, Apostolic. I know nothing about a deliverance ministry or gift.

engrelvis:
my brother I dnt want to argue with him again.his own beliefs is condition by pastor Chris.mine is from experience exposure n walk with d holy spirit

Forget this your nonsense. Whenever you guys are cornered you pretend you are on some moral horse.

Bring Gods word and teach me with your 20 years experience.

It is a shame but your conclusion has summed it up. Yours is with your experience, exposure...nothing to do with Gods word.

Don't worry..you would be shocked that on the last day..it will be the very word you did not elevate that will judge you.

daveP:
Mark focused his writings on Deliverance. So the deliverance ministry does exist.

Bring verses please.

shadeyinka:
What is the name of the demon Jesus cast out from the mad man of Gadarene?

Legion!

"My name is legion, for we are many.."

And Jesus said, liar! A demon will say any thing in the name of deliverance Abi!?

A demon says "I am her husband...I make love to her every night..."
And your response is "its a lie, there is no such thing as spiritual husband"
And in reality, this woman says she was daily molested in her dreams by a giant man!

Judge now!
Even Pastor Chris balanced it at the end of the message if you listened to it ("it is a spiritual reality for some people".

If it is a spiritual reality, then of exists!

With my little exchanges with you in the past and now, you should know I am not a neophyte especially in Gods word.

The demon said Legion therefore the demon was saying the truth? I mean, considering demons are well reputed for truth telling abi?

Did you notice that Jesus never bothered engaging demons? Because that was not the point. They could have been 10 demons in that man and the demons will claim they are over 6000 just to make the person engaging them feel like it would take all his time to get them out. Satan's tricks are not new.

That a demon says I am whatever or that the woman felt someone was having sex with her does not make that a spiritual husband. It is just the way the demon chose to manifest himself.

It is this error that has led people to preach sermons on spiritual husbands and wives whereas many of them after such "deliverance" sessions find that the sexual dreams stopped but something else began to manifest itself and then they would need the same deliverance session all over for the new manifestation.

Why? Because satan knows the trick. If you tell him to come out as a spiritual husband. He will pretend like he has left and begin to manifest himself as promiscuity or insanity or some infirmity.

That is why people are to preach the word over their experiences.

shadeyinka:
Did I ever say or insinuate that all barrenness were demonic affliction? Don't put words into my mouth.

If Jesus cast out the spirit of infirmity from a woman bent double, does it mean that all hunch backs have the spirit of inheritances.

I use the example of barrenness from the point of view of the scriptures and our experiences.

[

Have you seen barren spiritually mature members of Christ embassy?
If yes, why have they remain barren for so long is the question you are to answer!

There is a legal and then vital truth about Gods word.

For e.g it is a legal truth that Christ died for the whole world. But is the whole world saved? No.

For one to experience that vital truth, they have to accept Jesus lordship by faith and act accordingly.

The same is so for every portion of the word of God.

God said there is no barrenness for his children. That is a legal truth. In reality, some have experienced it. Therefore God lied? No.

Vitally, they are to act on that legal verity and stick to it. The result is they will bare children. Simple.

engrelvis:
u r d one dat cannot read .we r ving a robust argument here. U can make ur point without being insultive.back to d argument.who told u we r nt suppose to v deliverance ministry? Like I said earlier there r different ministry in d body of Christ. Some r gud in prophecy,some teaching,others evangelism etc.because pastor Chris said something so I cannot question it .at my age (45) n exposure dats nonsense.by God grace I v been in Christian faith over 20yrs.i spend 5yrs with Christ embassy.i was a cell leader.i was among d engineer dat designed one of their churches in Benin in early 2000

You are appealing to your false experience and it does not work in a robust discussion.

I said you cannot read because you keep trying to explain demonic entities and how real they are and I am telling you that you are preaching to the choir.

What that means is...Pastor Chris did not say Demons do not exist. Understand?

There is no such thing as a deliverance ministry. If there is one, use bible verses to teach me. I am willing to learn.

I have met people who were Christians for 30+ years of their lives and when I started showing them scripture, they felt like they had never known the bible all their lives.

So your 20 years means nothing.

engrelvis:
in body of Christ there r different soldiers.pastor Chris belong to d teaching group.others belong to deliverance group etc.nobody is glorifying satan.d greatest trick is for him(satan) to make u believe he is nt there.a demon possess person can suppress it with word of God but believe me is still there . Jesus Christ said he has given us power to step upon serpent n scorpion n cast out demons n principalities.holy spirit is our teachers.

Your problem is you cannot read. Simple.

You are not teaching anything new. Demons exist and Pastor said that in the video. What he disagreed with was the notion of spiritual husband or wife. It is unscriptural.

Yes, a demon can decide to manifest in a certain way but that does not mean the manifestation is now a doctrine. That is the error.

There is no such thing as a deliverance ministry. Except you have written your own bible.

TolaTosin:
We all operate from different realms anyone who's faith can not carry his teachings should leave it.

See they are people if u don't give them olive oil, it is as though they is no God.

Some if they go to church and the pastor didn't tell them that a witch is his problem, they will just feel God was not in church.

May God help us.

Personally I have found out that it beings with the mind, if u open ur mind to operations of demons that is what you will get.

If you open ur mind to sin, that is what you will get.

@shadeyinka, even without going to church, if your keep your mind clean, nothing will happen to you.

You are right and my prayer is that many of Gods children will come up hither.

Something funny happened when Jesus cast out the demon from that boy who was foaming in the mouth and trying to dip himself inside a fire.

Jesus commanded the "deaf and dumb" spirit to come out even though the signs the boy was displaying were more violent and destructive than the name Jesus called the demon will suggest.

If it were today, some people will bring out a whole doctrine on the demon of fire and destruction and teach that anyone who behaves like the boy in the story has it. Whereas, it was a deaf and dumb spirit.

This is the danger of teaching experiences as the word of God.

shadeyinka:
That's why I said give thanks!

I used to be a victim (so, I understand).

If you haven't done "self deliverance" because of certain issues for some times, you won't understand.

Let me ask you a direct question:
Have you ever seen a zealous and committed married couple member of Christ Embassy who is barren?

Is their barrenes a result of faithlessness, unbelievers or ignorance? (If you've met one)

Was John the Baptist's mum (Elizabeth) barren because of spiritual husband?

What about Sarah (Abraham's wife?)

Therein lies the danger with making doctrines out of experiences.