₦airaland Forum

Seun:
To be honest, I'm putting my views out there because i believe they are true, and also because I want to start meeting people of like mind.

This thread is not mockery. I'm just observing that the evidence for the belief that Jesus rose from the dead seems to be very weak.

truthman2012:
Good.

The religious aspect of the thread is referring to norminal Christians and muslims trying to please God in the power of the flesh.

The Bible says ''by strength shall no man prevail.

Neither is salvation obtainable by goog deed but through the finished work of Christ.

malvisguy212:
Jesus, his human nature, call God His father on many occasions. What did Jesus mean when He say "I and the father are ONE? " further more, what did He means in this conversation with Philip;
John 14.
9 Jesus answered: “Don’t you know
me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10 Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority.

I want you to carefully notice the last statement "The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority" what does this indicate? Jesus did not speak on His own authority, why ? Because it was the Father(God) who dwell in Him speak. (just like A demon possessed man do not speak on his own authority)

malvisguy212:
bless you my brother, thank you.

malvisguy212:
The Greek term for "firstborn" is
prototokos. Firstborn of all creation does NOT mean christ was "born first" or created first, NO it refer to christ POSITION of SUPREMACY by virtue
of the fact that He is the Creator of all
things and everything came through Him
, see verse 16. The word "firstborn" in Colossians 1:15 refers to positional priority not temporal priority. For example In Psalm 89:27 King
David is placed as FIRSTBORN,but David
was actually the last-born son of Jesse.
Isreal is call "FIRSTBORN" but Israel was not the first nation that God brought into existence, but POSITIONALLY as God's chosen and privileged nation
Israel was supreme.

The simply conclusion in colossian 1 was, the word firstborn was NOT use to described chronological oder of event. It was use to express Christ's priority as the CREATOR because all OTHER created being came through HIM as verse 16 say and I quote:

" FOR IN HIM ALL THINGS WERE CREATED : things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been
created THROUGH HIM and for him. "

There is a Greek word which means FIRST CREATED (protoktistos) but Paul did not use this word of Christ.

cokoduck:
. Where in the Bible did you see " It was God the son that made His dwelling on jesus "? Then if God the father is in heaven, why then did you say he is one person, how can ONE person be at two different places at a time, one

cokoduck:
Nonsense! during the transfiguration, when Peter spoke up, what happened? During his Baptism by John the Baptist, Who spoke from heaven? Towards his final days here on earth, when he and his disciples visited the temple, who spoke to the hearing of everyone in the temple? Who did Jesus pray to when he prayed in the garden of Gethsemane? When he said, FATHER, please take this cup away from me, but not MY wish, let YOUR wish take place, (just summarizing), so if Jesus was God and emptied himself, (of course he did, but as the Son of God not God himself) and now he is on earth and in heaven at the same time, he does one thing here, and I don't know, speaks from heaven at the same time, and he no longer knows certain things, then Jesus must be mankind's biggest joker. I mean it doesn't make any sense.

Acos925:
Bible gurus in the house.....kindly help to clarify this article I found in an online newspaper.


Christians assume Paul preached the same gospel as Jesus. But close scrutiny reveals otherwise. Paul never heard Jesus preach; he simply fabricated his own gospel and attributed it to Jesus. As a result, there are many contradictions between the doctrine of Jesus and that of Paul.

Different gospel
Jesus preaches the gospel of the kingdom of God: “Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues and preaching the gospel of the kingdom.” (Matthew 4:23). But Paul preaches the gospel of the grace of God: “I count my life dear to myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry which I received from the Lord Jesus Christ, to testify fully the gospel of the grace of God.” (Acts 20:24).
Jesus is the Saviour in the gospel of the kingdom: “She shall bear a son, and you shall call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.” (Matthew 1:21). But Paul is the saviour in his gospel of grace. “Since I am the apostle of the nations, I glorify my ministry; if by any means I may provoke those who are my flesh to jealousy, and might save some of them.” (Romans 11:13-14).
Jesus says he will build his church himself: “I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.” (Matthew 16:18). But Paul says he is the wise “master builder” who lays the foundation of the church: “According to the grace of God which is given to me, as a wise master builder, I have laid the foundation, and another builds on it.” (1 Corinthians 3:10).
Jesus says he gave his life as a ransom for only some people: “The Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life a ransom for many.” (Matthew 20:28). But Paul says Jesus gave his life as a ransom for everybody: “There is one mediator of God and of men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself a ransom for all.” (1 Timothy 2:5-6).

Different ministry
The principles Paul presents in his letters to the churches are at variance with those that Jesus taught during his three-year ministry. Since Paul’s teachings contradict those of Jesus, those who follow Paul cannot be Jesus’ disciples at the same time. Take note of the following divergences.
Jesus says he came to call sinners to repentance: “I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.” (Matthew 9:13). But Paul says Jesus came to save sinners: “Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief.” (1 Timothy 1:15).
Jesus kept company with sinners: “As Jesus reclined in the house, behold, many tax-collectors and sinners came and were reclining with him and his disciples.” (Matthew 9:10). But Paul says Christians should not keep company with sinners: “In my other letter I told you not to have anything to do with immoral people.” (1 Corinthians 5:9). “We command you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you withdraw yourselves from every brother who walks disorderly, and not after the teaching which he received from us.” (2 Thessalonians 3:6).
Jesus delivered sinners from Satan: “Jesus told the evil spirit, ‘Be quiet and come out of the man!’ The spirit shook him. Then it gave a loud shout and left.” (Mark 1:25). But Paul delivered sinners to Satan: “In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when you are gathered together, with my spirit; also, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ; to deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.” (1 Corinthians 5:4-5).

Different Perspective
Jesus says his sheep will hear his voice and follow him. They will not follow a stranger (John 10:27/5). The voice of Paul is the voice of a stranger. That is what is responsible for the following discrepancies.
Jesus says only the word he speaks is the word of God: “He who has no love for me does not keep my words; and the word which you are hearing is not my word but the Father's who sent me.” (John 14:24). But Paul says the word he speaks is the word of God: “For this cause we still give praise to God, that, when the word came to your ears through us, you took it, not as the word of man, but, as it truly is, the word of God, which has living power in you who have faith.” (1 Thessalonians 2:13).
Jesus says none of the Pharisees kept the law: “Did not Moses give you the law? Even so, not one of you keeps the law.” (John 7:19). But Paul says he kept all the laws of Moses as a Pharisee: “I kept all the righteousness of the law to the last detail.” (Philippians 3:6).
Jesus says the believer will be raised on the last day: “This is the will of the Father who sent me, that of all which he has given me I should lose nothing but should raise it up again at the last day. And this is the will of Him who sent me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes on him should have everlasting life. And I will raise him up at the last day. (John 6:39-40). But Paul says believers are already raised with Christ: “If then you were raised with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ is sitting at the right hand of God.” (Colossians 3:1).

Dire Warnings
It is imperative that, as followers of Jesus, we must heed his warnings. A lot of the warnings of Jesus identify Paul as a wolf in sheep’s clothing. Take another look at the following.
Jesus says we should determine a prophet by his fruits: “Beware of false prophets who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. You shall know them by their fruits.” (Matthew 7:15-16). But Paul says we should determine a prophet by whether he agrees with whatever he says: “If anyone thinks to be a prophet, or a spiritual one, let him recognize the things I write to you, that they are a commandment of the Lord.” (1 Corinthians 14:37-38).
Jesus says we should beware of the doctrine of the Pharisees: “Be sure to guard against the dishonest teaching of the Pharisees! It is their way of fooling people.” (Luke 12:1). But Paul remained a Pharisee even after he became a Christian. When he observed that some of the council members were Sadducees and others Pharisees, he shouted: “I am a Pharisee and the son of a Pharisee. I am on trial simply because I believe that the dead will be raised to life." (Acts 23:6).
Jesus spoke of Pharisees who shut the kingdom of heaven against men: “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you shut up the kingdom of heaven against men. For you neither go in, nor do you allow those entering to go in.” (Matthew 23:13). Make sure Paul, the Pharisee, does not prevent you from entering the kingdom of heaven.


Source: www.vanguardngr.com/2016/06/whose-report-believe-2/

ettaetta:
If Jesus was God, why did He not know when He would return?"

many Christians firmly believe that Jesus is God, But
Speaking of Jesus' Second Coming, Matthew 24:36(and Mark 13:32) tells us, “No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.
Any bible Scholar here should throw more light on this.

Unavoidable2:
The topic is my question. I recently saw an image with that caption. So what happens if Satan comes to his senses and asks God for forgiveness?

mmsen:
www.nairaland.com/attachments/3869973_godisgoodmotorinaccident5die_jpege1a7717ed3ebc36247d18e0403614c34

So, what happened?

Scholar8200:
Indeed, as per the highlighted, God declared that He hates divorce but this case, the woman in question was not a wife in the truest, Scriptural sense of the Word!!!

Scholar8200:
No problem.

Read Matthew 19 again. Jesus spoke about marrying another woman while the first was still alive and called it adultery.

9 And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.
Matthew 19:9

Now, it will be erroneous to interpret the above to mean you can marry another provided you dont put the first away!


And His plans for man has been unfolding gradually since the fall. Jesus, not me, highlighted the issue of hardness of heart allowed for under the old testament!

Now you say this but forget that the Paul spoke about Bishops and Deacons having ONE wife! Were they going to get married before becoming Bishops and Deacons or after And wont they first be disciples before becoming Bishops and Deacons?



Danger starts when having passed a stage, we go back to revive the "stones from the rubbish" of that which God had annulled, though permitted initially.

Once again, Jesus, not me, highlighted the fact that certain things were allowed in the Old Testament because of the hardness of heart. The New testament addresses this hence it is called a Better covenant. Would you manage to prove that ANY of the disciples/apostles had 2 or more wives? We have Aquila and Priscilla (neither Bishops nor Apostles they), Paul spoke that the Apostles led about(I quote)

... a sister, a wife, as well as other apostles, and as the brethren of the Lord, and Cephas?
1 Corinth 9:5
Why didnt they, like you are claiming, compare themselves to David? And did they get married after becoming apostles or before?

All through the NT can you support or back up polygamy with just one verse, expressedly or impliedly? Matthew 19 runs in the same tenor with Jesus saying, "ye have heard that... but I say unto you" meaning this is the NT, those things overlooked due to hardness of heart and the limit of the law are no more permissible under the NT!

Nice retort brother! Show me a proof that the other 3 are 'wives' to start with. By what arrangement? Matthew 19? Malachi 2:14-16? or Frosbel's book of surmisings?!





Interesting. And yet folks like you will be quick to call for the head of the 'MOG' that marries a second wife!

Congrats.

Talk2nanro:
my friend you have perfect understanding of the scripture, and i believe the spirit taught you these things and disregard those apostate saying evil because they have not been giving wisdom

Scholar8200:
The use of the word adoption is just to differentiate the children by faith from the only Begotten One. Jesus said in that same John 3 that to be born of God is to be born of the Spirit, so says Paul:

6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
Galatians 4:6


That's purely a figurative use! Even Jesus said this:
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
Mark 7:12

But Jesus Himself appointed shepherds:
He saith to him again the second time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my sheep.
John 21:16

This was said to Peter.The same Peter wrote:

feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight thereof, not by constraint, but willingly; not for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind; 3 neither as being lords over God’s heritage, but being ensamples to the flock. 4 And when the chief Shepherd shall appear, ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away.
1 Peter 5:2-4

Lest I forget:

20 teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen
Matthew 28:20

You are ignoring what was condemned in the sermon on the mount namely praying in public with the intention to be seen.. Else, what of the prayers in public in the Ot that were graciously answered eg Hannah praying in the Temple.

The same Paul circumcised Timothy!!! The point Paul was making in Galatians was that we dont get circumcised in order to be saved! Even the council at Jerusalem in Acts 15 agreed with Paul's position!!!


Jesus said thus:
And in the same house remain, eating and drinking such things as they give: for [size=15pt]the labourer is worthy of his hire[/size]. Go not from house to house.
Luke 10:7

Agrees perfectly!!!

Jesus denounced the pharisees that were doing similar actions of deception being perpetrated by Paul's references:

Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
Matthew 23:33 (Read the whole chapter).

But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea. Matthew 18:6


Now sir, this is malicious! Paul simply quoted from Proverbs 25:21,22!!!

Paul, persecuted and misrepresented in life and death!!!

Seun:
"Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven." Luke 6:37

Seun:
God created the first human couple and placed them in a garden with a talking snake and a tree that they were never to eat from. The talking snake convinced them to eat from the tree. For this, God cursed them and all human babies that would ever be born. Centuries later, God made a pact with a small tribe of shepherds in the desert - the jews. He would be their God if they followed his very strict laws.

God was surprised that the jewish pact didn't cause God to forgive all human beings, so thousands of years later, God prepared a new plan. God would impregnate a virgin, and she would give birth to God. God would grow up to be crucified for calling himself the Son of God. God's brutal murder by humanity would pay for humanity's sins against God. Then God would rise again after 3 days but only appear privately to his followers, proving that God was indeed the Son of God. Then God would chill for 30 days as God's followers met in a closed room, and afterwards God would descend on them in little flames of fire and cause them to preach God's good news in many languages.

Because of God's sacrifice, God would forgive any person who believed that God died for humanity's sins against God. After death, God would send the believers to a place where they would spend all eternity telling God how awesome he is. God would throw those who didn't believe this story or were not told about it into a lake of fire where they would be burnt alive for all eternity, demonstrating God's justice and love.

In an alternate reality, God said, "I'm angry that you ate from the tree". Adam and Eve said, "sorry sir". God said, "ok I forgive you". The end.

Richydos:
U that u read d story so well.... When d son returned n asked for forgiveness, was he banished or cursed
THE point u peeps are not convincingly making is dat God Knew Adam was going to sin..... If that be d case, Y banish him when he is aware such thing will surely happen..... He saw it n it happened n thus dt makes him God.... Y banish him when he knows it's gonna happen

platypus:
that was a very good one from you.
Now the question is; did the father destined the child to be a prodigal son? Is the father the cause of the child's mistake?
It will not be fare to blame the father for the child's decision. That is where the issue of freewill comes in. From the father 's experience in life, he knows the boy 'can' make mistake, but the father does not decide if the boy 'will' make mistakes.
It's purely the boy's decision.
God knows if we do good, better future awaits us. And the opposite if we do bad. Deutaronomy 30:19.
Whether we do good or bad is purely our decision

Richydos:
U just said God knew Adam will be sinning n though he gave him d freewill of making his decision...... N if God truly knew he was gonna sin against him... Y banish n curse him when he actually sinned.... Can u pls explain

sonOfLucifer:
The internet is not Sunday School. Deal with it, or use your Holy Spirit for communication.

Emeskhalifa:
why not here Sir/
alot will learn if we discuss it hereu know?

Emeskhalifa:
Hello Nlanders... everyday in Church we re being told that Jesus died for our sins. well, I have listened carefully but never believed that.
here are my questions. .......
If Jesus died for our sins but came back to life, wouldn't that break the deal?
Then if we don't sin, does that not mean he died for nothing??
if so, why then is there hell fire for sinners when he (Jesus) has died for our sins already?
Then lastly, The Bible itself said "NO MAN CAN DIE FOR ANOTHER MAN's SIN"
Ezekiel 18 1-30
Psalm 49:7
Jeremiah 31:30

realmindz:
re-read my comment and ask if it doesn't make sense to u...re-read the previous comments and u'll see people like ursef making several assumptions and conclusions, then it wud make sense to u why we ve several hundreds of doctrines all from one bible. No one is trying to discredit u, jst trying to reason out things objectively without sentiments....
Religious folks ve always created this impression of their religious books being the best and without possiblites of errors, the delusion that such books were compiled by super-humans highly inspired from above and never plausible to mistakes.
All these verses are obvious errors from the editor but yet you wisest holiest God loved and God loving faithful religious folks will do anything to defend the very obvious...

realmindz:
to be very honest with you, u r dishonest to yoursef...u jst came up with some kind of explanation from ur head, this is why we have several hundreds of doctrines from jst one bible bcus everyone is busy making assumptions and fallacious conclusions...Science will always make sense as science speaks and comes to a general conclusion.
No wonder science will always bring development and innovations to humanity while religion will be busy causing confusions and divisions to mankind.

otemdomino I dedicate this thread to u, cus u were the first to start it but went to nairaland jail because the topic was too harsh..rather too harsh but same message

realmindz:
can u state the bible verse that stated this?

realmindz:
na me talk am, no be bible...perhaps u are referring to the editor of the bible

realmindz:
any bible proof to back it up?

realmindz:
Pls read
2nd Kings 24:8 declares, “Jehoiachin was 18 years old when he began to reign,” while

2 Chronicles 36:9 says, “Jehoiachin was 8 years old when he began to reign.


Same bible, same story, contradicting accounts...kindly explain




Muafrika2 winner01 geoworldedu KingEbukasBlog ken4christ Joagbaje medicis malvisguy212

DjAduba:
Oh my sister you are welcome to The Religion of . 1. Adam
2. Noah
3. Isaac
4. Jacob
5. Abraham
6. Jesus and
7. Muhammad : Peace and blessings of Allah be upon them all. May Allah strengthen your faith n Him and guide you from the fitnah of this life and the hereafter. Amin.

Gaddavi:
guy as you fine reach are no no say you no get sense.idiot fellow say na waiting ur Bible teac you bdat.olosi

VomeSchakleton:
Kaffir Kaffir Kaffir! He's on an express train to hell because I trust Allah's judgment.