₦airaland Forum

menesheh:
Did he(god) knew that satan as one of the angels will be a great opposition to his creation here on earth?

yes.

menesheh:
Why did god created satan?

asking why did God created satan is the same as asking why did He create the angels. God created satan as a strong and powerful angel, and the purpose was for worship.

According to the Bible all of the sons
of God (i.e., all the angels, including
Satan) shouted for joy at the creation of the Earth. However, Satan had fallen by the time humans were created.

Job 38:4, 7
"Where were you when I laid the
foundation of the earth? Tell Me, if
you have understanding... When the
MORNING STARS SANG TOGETHER, And all the sons of God shouted for
joy?"

The phrase "sang together" including the heavenly host.

Colossian 1:16-18
16
For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. 17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. 18 And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy.

In verse 16 it say ALL things including things invincible and visible in heaven and earth , ALL were created by Him and For Him and in verse 18 it say ALL things listed above, He might have the supremacy of ALL. Supremacy by worship. So God created ALl the angels including satan for them to worship him alone.

Lukay99:
Yes my statement is the truth and will always be the truth with all due respect I do know that you are a Christian and I don't expect you to read the Quran with the same understanding of Muslim Quran 16:101 that you quoted is not a contradiction take a closer look at the first statement "When We substitute one revelation for another" it clearly says substitute one revelation to another (i .e New Testament[Jesus] substituted for old testament[Mose] ) some laws may changed in process the Quran was not talking about changes within a revelation but between revelations not about changes within the Quran itself but about changes from the old testament to the new testament then to the Quran(last testament) you want to ask why will God Allah be making all these changes? The time it takes between two revelations sometimes can take a long time maybe 500 years to over a thousand or more but mankind usually go astray from the previous revelation which is why God (Allah) kept sending revelations through different prophets to explain why sometimes these new coming revelations usually abrogate some old laws from the previous revelation take Microsoft(not the best example) for instance the first windows platform created by Microsoft was very simple probably require much lesser memory to install which doesn't support internet browsing as it is today then came window 95, 98, 2000, vista etc let's say Microsoft was able to release the new window 10 of today back in 1993 you and I knows well that the world as of 1993 was not ready for window 10 same thing applies with God's revelations take for instance when Adam and eve were around way back then the same God (Allah)made it lawfully for their children brothers and sisters to marry one another, many many years later when the population is much bigger mankind now ready for like an Update(i.e Microsoft) God will now send a new prophet with a newer revelation with same goal but may have newer laws n rules this is the best way I can can explain Quran 16:101 to you if you read second part it says Allah knows the best of what He sends down, in stages say: "You (O Muhammad SAW) are but a Muftari! (forger, liar)." Nay, but most of them know not.

The verse dose not specifically mentioned juju it was me that included Juju that was why I placed it brackets but to be precise juju is also part of idolaters that the verse mentioned if we really need to break it down it's like you tell telling your employees No drinking of Alcohol on the job and one of your employee said it's OK to drink beer since you didn't specifically mentioned beer

Yes the people of the book are Christians and Jew because their books (old n new testament) was revealed by god too but when the Quran describe some Christians that are associating partners with God as late (disbeliever) it meant Christians calling Jesus God it's a known fact from some western historian that believe some of the early Christians do not see Jesus as a God but more of a prophet of God these early Christians do not believe in the Trinity either not all Christians believe in the Trinity even though majority do believe it the Quran was not flip flopping when it describe the Christians one way in one chapter then describe them another way in another chapter there are difference within Christianity in the last 2000 years Muslims see the early Christians that sees Jesus as a prophet as the True Christians it's a known fact that there's no clear and unambiguous statement by Jesus himself in the Bible that says he is God or people should worship him I challenge you to show us if it's really in the Bible that Jesus actually said he's God or he should worship he is nothing but a messenger of God.

listen, Jesus did not substitute any law, what Jesus was doing , is solving man problems of sin.

The law is a manifestation of the perfect
holiness of God, and was given to us
(humanity) to show how utterly unable
we are to meet God's standard by our
own means, strength or works (Romans
7:7).
When the law was introduced, it was
never intended to be the instrument by
which man would save himself, but it
was the instrument through which man
was to be saved. In a very real sense,
man is saved through the fulfilment
(keeping) of the law.

Jesus explained that the moral commandments were not to be followed merely to the letter of the law, but also to the intent of the law. So, it was not enough to abstain from adultery, but God required that one not even look on a woman with lust (Matthew 5:27-28).

Likewise, it is not enough to abstain from murder, but God requires that nobody hate another without cause, with calling another person "a fool" making one guilty enough to suffer the judgment of Hell (Matthew 5:21-22).

So God's laws require not only perfect performance, but also perfect attitude and motive. So you are very very wrong in saying Jesus substitute the law.

Surah 13:39: “Allah makes to pass
away and establishes what He
pleases, and with Him is the basis of
the Book.” (Shakir)

If Allah in the Qur’an manifests himself
as the arbitrary god who acts as he
pleases without even honoring his own
sayings, then he is acting in a way that is totally foreign to the truths taught in the Holy Bible. God does not change and neither does his teachings. Every
instance of abrogation is a problem for
the doctrine of an unchanging God.
the God of the Holy Bible is different. He does not change. As such,he can be totally trusted in fulfilling all his promises:

Malachi 3:6: “I am thy Lord and I do
not change.”

menesheh:
Who created Satan?

God.

Demmzy15:
Good evening! What's the point of creating this nonsensical thread?

trying to help the innocent solve the problem of evil.

Peo love darkness more than light, does Allah love EVERYBODY unconditional ? The answer is no, Allah only love the believers and hate those who reject faith. Pleased read more https://www.nairaland.com/2541133/what-love-quran

Demmzy15:

good evening bro.

Is there love in the quran ?

abduljabbar4:
Big blow to the haters of Islam esp lieman2012

this is exactly what you guys are doing concerning the bible.
Rilwayne001 change to truthman2013 trying to manipulate the original truthman2012. And you guys are calling truthman2012 fake and calling the impersonator(truthman2013) the real Truthman. Deluded muslims.

ByfireByfire:
Kudos for refuting the bloody liars. For all I care any blood thirsty muslim can interprete those verses however they wish to justify their bloodshed and still be right. That's what Muhammed did in real life and that's what Isis and radicals do all over the world.

Those verses are so open ended and filled with ambiguity that they can become whatever any muslim wants them to be.

don't mind the liar. We will continue to exposed them.

In the middle of the confusion of the war on terrorism is the question of the nature of the religion of Islam. Some say that it is a peaceful religion at its heart, that only the fringe extremists are bent on war.

One side claims that "jihad" means a
personal struggle against evil in one's
behavior. Others claim that it means
conquest of the part of the world that is
not Muslim, by whatever means
necessary, including acts of terror.

Both sides refer to specific passages in
the Koran for support. For the soul winner, these are not the important issues. Bible believers are asking, "How can we reach Muslims with the gospel which will solve their struggle against evil?"

One way involves God's love.The biblical concept of God loving the sinner, is
FOREIGN TO MUSLIM THINKING. To them, Allah is "compassionate" and "merciful," BUT only to those who obey him.

Their relationship to Allah is not as father and son but more as MASTER AND SLAVE. Allah is not pictured in the quran as a loving Creator, longing for an intimate relationship with man.

Biblical concepts found in John 3:16, 1
John 4:6-10 ("God is love" and in the
Lord's prayer where we address God as
"Our Father" are nowhere found in
Muslim thinking. Muslims memorize the
"99 beautiful names of Allah,"BUT "love"
or "loving" is no where in that list.

"The love of God is the chief attribute of the biblical God as revealed in such places as John 3:16.God has feelings for his creatures, especially man"

But when we turn to the Quran, we do
not find love presented as the chief
attribute of Allah. Instead, the
transcendence of Allah is his chief
attribute.

"Neither does Allah 'have feelings'
toward man. That concept is foreign to
Islamic teaching. That would reduce
Allah to being a mere man -which again
is blasphemous to a Muslim."

"The greatest difference between the two faiths is the personal quality of God," writes Emir and Ergun Caner in Unveiling Islam. "ONE MUST LOVE Allah IN ORDER FOR Allah TO LOVE THAT PERSON IN RETURN .In Christianity, God loved people first in order to secure their salvation"

The story that Jesus told of the prodigal
son illustrates a side of God that is
foreign to the followers of Allah. The
Quran states flatly that "Allah loves NOT those who reject Faith"(surah 3:32).
"The Muslim can be totally sure that
Allah will never restore a believer who
has rejected the faith of Islam," we must show the Muslim that Allah offers "no love, no sure forgiveness of sins and only empty dreams of a false paradise."

Only Jesus, the God of the Bible, loved us while were yet sinners,offering sure forgiveness, and eternal life with a loving heavenly Father.

@truthman2013.
You did not explained anything here, muhammed and his followers had just entered Medina before this verse was revealed, quran 2:191 was revealed and the meccan are not planing to attack :
(Bukhari29:72, Muslim 7:3145)
Allah's Apostle ENTERED MECCA in the
year of its Conquest wearing an
Arabian helmet on his head and
when the Prophet took it off, a
person came and said, "Ibn Khatal is
holding the covering of the Ka'ba
(taking refuge in the Ka'ba)." The
Prophet said, "KILL HIM."

Muslims are to drive Meccans out of their own city (which they later did). Verse 190 thus means to fight those who offer resistance to Allah's rule (ie. Muslim conquest). Infacte it was the muslims who first draw the first blood:

Abu Waqqas picked up a camel’s
jawbone and struck a local polytheist
who was “rudely interrupting” his group
of praying Muslims. "This was the first
blood to be shed in Islam" (Ibn Ishaq/
Hisham 166).

The use of the word "persecution" by some Muslim translators is disingenuous (the actual Arabic words for persecution - "idtihad" - and oppression - a variation of "z-l-m" - do NOT APPEAR in the verse). The word used instead, "fitna", can mean
disbelief, or the disorder that results
from unbelief or temptation. This is
certainly what is meant in this context
since the violence is explicitly
commissioned "UNTIL RELIGION IS FOR Allah" - ie. unbelievers desist in their unbelief.

Quran (2:191-193) - "And kill them
wherever you find them, and turn them
out from where they have turned you
out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief or unrest] is
worse than killing...but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah [disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah] and worship is for Allah alone. But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimun (the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.) "

The verse prior to this (190) refers to
"fighting for the cause of Allah those who fight you" leading some to believe that the entire passage refers to a defensive war in which Muslims are defending their homes and families.

Come to think of it , if it was the meccan that first attack the muslims, do you need a revelation from Allah to attack back ? For muhammed to enter Mecca settled down and have his revelation indicate its was the muslims that first attack the meccan.

Historians do not record any act of
aggression by the Meccans against the
Muslims during the time at which the
second sura was narrated by
Muhammad. There were no armies
marching against them, nor any plans for such. The Meccans had no influence in this far-away town, and Muslims were
not under persecution at the time by any stretch of the term as it is popularly
understood today. According to the
sequence of events in the Sira (biography), the Meccans were quite
content with leaving Muhammad alone
following his eviction (even though he
had made a pledge of war against them).

HerPapaPikin88:
1. I'm sorry, WHAT?? I have never seen a more apt example of a command...it even states it clearly - 'COMMANDMENT', i.e, 'You WILL do this. I do not require your input. If you do not, you will become Satan's suya.'

2. Lol. Nothing inspires conviction more effectively than a nightmarish threat. A man who has never harmed a fly will confess to more than one crime if tortured and threatened with enough intensity.

God did not ask us to believe, He want us to be sure of what we believe, to be 100% sure of our faith.

As christians, Our desperate need is not for clever arguments but for a powerful encounter with the living God (1 Corinthians 4:20).And we need not more dramatic signs from heaven, but to act on what we already know. The door to spiritual understanding is not human explanation,but supernatural revelation. It swings not on mind games but on a willingness to surrender our stubborn will to One who knows better than us (John 7:17; 2 Corinthians 3:14-16;4:3-4; 1 Corinthians 2:4-16; Luke
10:21).

Draw near to God and he will draw near to you, promises the Bible (James 4:. Until we respond to the light we already
have, God is unlikely to squander further enlightenment upon us. With
insincere excuses we might even fool ourselves, but not the One who knows everything. We don't decide how much
evidence we need: God does.Neither do we have the final say as to when God will lose patience with us.

HerPapaPikin88:
That explains one race...explain the other 4. And if I hear Shem, Hem, Haw, Ham or Bacon... I will be very upset.

I did not understand you, present your question appropriate.

adewalker:
. I said the words from jesus mouth in the bible are not up to a page of a newspaper,quote me anytime...the bulk of the new testament are stories from anonymous writers...the quotes from jesus in the bible was is not up to a page of a newspaper,quote me...the quran is not a story book to start telling u how this one did that,God is not a story teller,God just make us aware of the message he came to deliver which was ,"hear o isreal ur God our lord is one"mark 12:29,jesus said that's the most important commandment...so my brother since u say jesus was carrying a book up and down while he was preaching,bring us this book of gospel jesus used and we muslims we accept it

Jesus message in the bible is not much ? What about the quran ? Did Jesus speak His word in the quran ? The message of Jesus can be found ONLY in the bible.

I was arguing against the claimed made in the quran, the quran claimed Jesus was given a book, which I don't believe, you are the first muslims that is denying this. Jesus was not given a book as claimed in the quran but he preach the word the father gave to Him:

John 8:38 I SPEAK that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father.

And Jesus did not speak His own word but the word which the father gave him:

John 12:49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

Mark1:14-15
» Now after John was put in prison,
Jesus came to Galilee, preaching the
gospel of the kingdom of God, and
saying, "The time is fulfilled, and the
kingdom of God is at hand. Repent,
and believe in the gospel."

Luke 4:43
» [Jesus] said to them, "I must preach
the kingdom of God to the other cities
also, because for this purpose I have
been sent."
Luke 8:1
» Now it came to pass, afterward, that
[Jesus] went through every city and
village, preaching and bringing the
glad tidings [gospel] of the kingdom of
God.

Luke 16:16-17
» The law and the prophets were until
John. Since that time the kingdom of
God has been preached, and
everyone is pressing into it. And it is
easier for heaven and earth to pass
away than for one tittle of the law to
fail. )

Matthew 24:14
» And this gospel of the kingdom will
be preached in all the world as a
witness to all the nations, and then
the end will come.

The inspired Word of God makes it
abundantly plain: The "good news" that
Jesus Christ brought was about the
Kingdom of God! The "gospel of Jesus
Christ" is simply the message of good
news that Jesus preached,not a message about Jesus. So the quran misinterpret Jesus by saying He was given a book. Thank you for your time.

Demmzy15:
proo212 you speak of Tafsir Ibn Kathir as if it supports you, here's what it states:

Allah commands His believing servants, who are pure in religion and person, to expel the idolators who are filthy in the religious sense, from Al-Masjid Al-Haram. After the revelation of this Ayah, idolators were no longer allowed to go near the Masjid. This Ayah was revealed in the ninth year of Hijrah. The Messenger of Allah sent `Ali in the company of Abu Bakr that year to publicize to the idolators that no Mushrik will be allowed to perform Hajj after that year, nor a naked person allowed to perform Tawaf around the House. Allah completed this decree, made it a legislative ruling, as well as, a fact of reality. `Abdur-Razzaq recorded that Jabir bin `Abdullah commented on the Ayah,
﴿إِنَّمَا الْمُشْرِكُونَ نَجَسٌ فَلاَ يَقْرَبُواْ الْمَسْجِدَ الْحَرَامَ بَعْدَ عَامِهِمْ هَـذَا﴾
(O you who believe! Verily, the Mushrikin are impure. So let them not come near Al-Masjid Al-Haram after this year) "Unless it was a servant or one of the people of Dhimmah(Non-Muslims living under Muslim rule).'' Imam Abu `Amr Al-Awza'i said, "Umar bin `Abdul-`Aziz wrote (to his governors) to prevent Jews and Christians from entering the Masjids of Muslims, and he followed his order with Allah's statement,
﴿إِنَّمَا الْمُشْرِكُونَ نَجَسٌ﴾
(Verily, the Mushrikin are impure.) `Ata' said, "All of the Sacred Area ﴿the Haram﴾ is considered a Masjid, for Allah said,
﴿فَلاَ يَقْرَبُواْ الْمَسْجِدَ الْحَرَامَ بَعْدَ عَامِهِمْ هَـذَا﴾
(So let them not come near Al-Masjid Al-Haram (at Makkah) after this year.)'' This Ayah indicates that idolators are impure and that the believers are pure. In the Sahih is the following,
«الْمُؤْمِنُ لَا يَنْجُس»
(The believer does not become impure.) Allah said,
﴿وَإِنْ خِفْتُمْ عَيْلَةً فَسَوْفَ يُغْنِيكُمُ اللَّهُ مِن فَضْلِهِ﴾
(and if you fear poverty, Allah will enrich you, out of His bounty.) Muhammad bin Ishaq commented, "The people said, `Our markets will be closed, our commerce disrupted, and what we earned will vanish.' So Allah revealed this verse,
﴿وَإِنْ خِفْتُمْ عَيْلَةً فَسَوْفَ يُغْنِيكُمُ اللَّهُ مِن فَضْلِهِ﴾
(and if you fear poverty, Allah will enrich you, out of His bounty), from other resources,
﴿إِن شَآءَ﴾
(if He wills), until,
﴿وَهُمْ صَـغِرُونَ﴾
(. ..and feel themselves subdued.) This Ayah means, `this will be your compensation for the closed markets that you feared would result.' Therefore, Allah compensated them for the losses they incurred because they severed ties with idolators, by the Jizyah they earned from the People of the Book.'' Similar statements were reported from Ibn `Abbas, Mujahid, `Ikrimah, Sa`id bin Jubayr, Qatadah and Ad-Dahhak and others. Allah said,
﴿إِنَّ اللَّهَ عَلِيمٌ﴾
(Surely, Allah is All-Knowing), in what benefits you,
﴿حَكِيمٌ﴾
(All-Wise), in His orders and prohibitions, for He is All-Perfect in His actions and statements, All-Just in His creations and decisions, Blessed and Hallowed be He. This is why Allah compensated Muslims for their losses by the amount of Jizyah that they took from the people of Dhimmah.

Now this is the tafsir of 9:28, the points were explained well by Ibn Kathir(Rahimahullah), now let's see 9:29:

Therefore, when People of the Scriptures disbelieved in Muhammad , they had no beneficial faith in any Messenger or what the Messengers brought. Rather, they followed their religions because this conformed with their ideas, lusts and the ways of their forefathers, not because they are Allah's Law and religion. Had they been true believers in their religions, that faith would have directed them to believe in Muhammad , because all Prophets gave the good news of Muhammad's advent and commanded them to obey and follow him. Yet when he was sent, they disbelieved in him, even though he is the mightiest of all Messengers. Therefore, they do not follow the religion of earlier Prophets because these religions came from Allah, but because these suit their desires and lusts. Therefore, their claimed faith in an earlier Prophet will not benefit them because they disbelieved in the master, the mightiest, the last and most perfect of all Prophets . Hence Allah's statement,
﴿قَـتِلُواْ الَّذِينَ لاَ يُؤْمِنُونَ بِاللَّهِ وَلاَ بِالْيَوْمِ الاٌّخِرِ وَلاَ يُحَرِّمُونَ مَا حَرَّمَ اللَّهُ وَرَسُولُهُ وَلاَ يَدِينُونَ دِينَ الْحَقِّ مِنَ الَّذِينَ أُوتُواْ الْكِتَـبَ﴾
(Fight against those who believe not in Allah, nor in the Last Day, nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth among the People of the Scripture,) This honorable Ayah was revealed with the order to fight the People of the Book, after the pagans were defeated, the people entered Allah's religion in large numbers, and the Arabian Peninsula was secured under the Muslims' control. Allah commanded His Messenger to fight the People of the Scriptures, Jews and Christians, on the ninth year of Hijrah, and he prepared his army to [size=18pt]fight the Romans[/size] and called the people to Jihad announcing his intent and destination. The Messenger sent his intent to various Arab areas around Al-Madinah to gather forces, and he collected an army of thirty thousand. Some people from Al-Madinah and some hypocrites, in and around it, lagged behind, for that year was a year of drought and intense heat. The Messenger of Allah marched, heading towards Ash-Sham to fight the Romans until he reached Tabuk, where he set camp for about twenty days next to its water resources. He then prayed to Allah for a decision and went back to Al-Madinah because it was a hard year and the people were weak, as we will mention, Allah willing.

Hope you can see the circumstances in which this verse was revealed, if indeed the war was all about offensive, the Muslims wouldn't have camped. They would have charged into the Byzantine Empire, but rather they waited for them. When the Byzantines didn't show up, the Muslims left in peace. So Mr. Man you're not saying anything new!

Cc malvisguy212 this what Tafsir Ibn Kathir states rather than the nonsense you wrote up there. I was wondering, how could a whole tafsir of Ibn Kathir be as short as this nonsense:

okay, let read verse 29 :
Fight those who BELIEVE NOT IN ALLAH
nor the Last Day, nor hold that
forbidden which hath been forbidden
by Allah and His Apostle, nor
acknowledge the religion of Truth,
(even if they are) of the People of the
Book, until they pay the Jizya with
willing submission, and feel
themselves subdued.

The verse say fight those who believe not in Allah, and the verse went on to encourage the muslims to fight thoes who do not forbid what ALLAH and MUHAMMED had forbidden. Did the christians and Jews believe in muhammed ? Talkless of forbid what he forbid.

The above emphatically exhorts Muslims to conquer the following groups of people until they pay a sum of money (Jizya) as a sign of their subjection and humiliation:

1. Atheists/Agnostics (those who believe
not in God nor the Last Day). Jews and Christians (people of the Book).
2. Everyone else, whether Hindus/
Magians, Buddhists etc., since these
groups do not prohibit what Muhammad forbade nor believe in
Islam, the so-called "religion of Truth".

The op want to use a single verse to explained the WHOLE CONTEXT . Verse 28 give reason why the war is sanctioned.

Demmzy15:
]This Hadith has already appeared before. [u]Here the word “An-Nas” translated `the people’ in the Hadith stands for those who associate others with Allah in worship. [b]The people of the Book(Jews and Christians) are not included among them.]

did you mean to say , the command given in quran 9:29 , the christians and Jews are not included ?

adewalker:
. Pls bro,always try to be calm wen reading my post,am putting in plain english,in ur bible God gave moses the tablet,bt moses broke it,that tablet is the original torah,bt he broke it,so how did moses revealed God's then? He started preaching using his mouth thru revelation from God,the hard copy from God,he already broke,so all was left,were the revelations he got from God,which he relates to the children of isreal,this oral messages he administered to the children of isreal is called the torah,meaning law guiding the children of isreal,so after a while,moses died,so the jews started compiling everytyn moses had said into a hard copy book,bt the original tablet,God gave moses,moses already broke,after moses died,the jews found a different religion,called judaism...tho they styl believe in God,but it didn't follow the teachings of moses,so they started twisting the words moses had originally had said,they started formulating things while attributing it to God....the same with jesus,jesus came with a revelation from God,called the injeel.when jesus was preaching up and down the in jerusalem,was he carrying a book?,and this is wat am telling that u styl don't get,he wasn't carrying a hard copy,the revelation jesus come with is called the injeel,revealed in the quran as the book....so in this injeel and torah,they basically saying the same thing,"hear o isreal ur God our lord is one",moses said exactly those words,moses said the same thing...but after jesus had left the earth,people started writing things on their own,decieving people it was from God,the original message jesus preached,they threw it away,for example in ur bible,the words of jesus are not even up to a page of a newspaper,all we have are the words of a man called paul,who is telling u,he is from God...so God rebukes such people in quran 2:79" then woe to those who write the book with their own hands,then say'this is from God' in order to exchange it for a small price,woe to them for what they have written,and woe to them for what they earn"..........pls read and get wat I said before u reply

listen!!!
God wrote the Ten Commandments a second time (Exodus 34:1), because Moses broke the first set of stones
(Exodus 32:19; 34:1).
This 2nd set was placed into the wooden ark (Deuteronomy 10:1-5). The
Ten Commandments were written on both front and back (Exodus 32:15).
The law of Moses was copied upon stones also (Joshua 8:32; 24:26).

All what you are saying here are without scriptural backing, you are forcing your interpretation on God word, and your explanation is contradicting Allah quran, NO muslim will accept your explanation here, I wanted to say this before, but I must say it."I do not believe the quran when it say Jesus was given a book,because Jesus do not write anything as claimed in the quran, the gospel Jesus bring was about the KINGDOM of GOD , Jesus preach the kingdom,it is only David and Moses that were given the psalm and the law."

Did you say the message in the bible is not much ? You muslims are one of the bias and untruthful set of people, why are you allowing satan to manipulate you ? Read the bible and quran, which book give more details about the teaching of Jesus ? Jesus never speak for himself in the quran.

ByfireByfire:
Christians are being killed and churches are being burnt in Egypt. Google can tell you better. Saudi Arabia have already ran Christianity to a near zero hence there's no need to kill people they've already erased.

thank you bro.

proo212:
From Tafsir Al-Jalalayn



Suprisingly Al-Jalalayn agrees with Ibn Kathir....Hehehe, the Bible says let every matter be established by 2 or 3 witnesses Deut 19:15.

Some people are obviously trying to be economical with the truth

Quote from Demmzy15


Why should I accept obvious dissimulation when its a matter of life and death or subjugation like we see happening to the Copts, Assyrians and the Syriac and other Christians in Muslim majority countries?

Just to emphasize the point...

thank you bros. I love the way you present the evidence.

adewalker:
. I already wrote on how the quran confirms the torah and the injeel,u should read if first,bt seems u nt interested in watever answer we give,cos u didn't come to debate,

nonsense, you say the injeel and torah is not a book but are just saying, but the quran say the injeel and torah were given to Jesus and Moses as a BOOK, do you know more than Allah ? The quran encourage the Jews to judge by the torah, if the torah was not an oral message , how can they judge by it ?

truthman2013:
You won't just stop deluding yourself. First you admit that it was a battle between against christians and Jews who waged war again the muslims of that time. Very good on your part. At least this thread has been justified.

Now, the context of the Surah is talking about 2 predicament the muslims faced at that time. First, the PAGAN and then the ROMAN EMPIRE. Again as the literate critic of Islam unlike you madr us under in his book quoted out the verse in talk " Vers. 29-128 refer to the events connected with the expedition to Tabuq, which occurred in Rajab of A.H.
9 . They were not, however, all enunciated at one time,
but partly before the expedition, partly on the march,
and partly after the return. Vers. 29-35 may be referred
to the time of arrival at Tabuq, when the Christian
prince, John of Aylah, tendered his submission to
Muhammad, paying tribute (Jazya)." Reverend E. M. Wherry volume 2 page 274.

The Treaty PAGAN broke are refered to in the preceeding verses and in some later verse.

Open your eyes please.

truthman..

fight does who believe not in Allah is a self defence command ? The verse say fight those who do not hold that which is forbidden by Allah, this does not look like self defence was.

It is all about money. The Tafsir by Ibn
Kathir clarifies the Historical Context
for Allah’s purpose in revealing Surah
9:28-29. Ibn Kathir, The Battles of the Prophet, pp. 183-4:
Allah, Most High, ordered the
believers to prohibit the
disbelievers from entering or
coming near the sacred Mosque. On
that, Quraish thought that this
would REDUCE THEIR PROFITS FROM
TRADE. Therefore, Allah, Most High,
COMPENSATE THEM and ordered
them to fight the people of the
Book until they embrace Islam or
PAY THE JIZYAH ....

Verse 28 say:
O ye who believe! Truly the Pagans are unclean; so let them not, after this year of theirs,approach the Sacred Mosque. AND IF YE FEAR POVERTY , SOON WILL Allah ENRICH YOU , if He wills, out of His bounty, for Allah is All-knowing, All-
wise.

And how does Allah enrich them ? By paying the jizya tax. but here you say the jizya was a tribute to muhammed meaning Allah failed to enriched the muslims ?today the Isis are doing this in Iraq and Syria. All the none muslims must pay tax just to enrich the muslims.

truthman2013:
Lol, when did I say the battle was not against christians and Jews?

truthman..

okay good. Surah 9:29: Fight those who believe
not in Allah nor the Last Day....

Dose this look like defensive war ? And the verse went on an encourage muslims to fight those who do not hold what Allah had hold forbidden, muslims has the right to fight them intil they pay the jizya tax.

Read more here. https://www.nairaland.com/2130984/jizya-taxa-robbery
Provided below are more Sword Verses from the quran:
Surah 2:191: And kill them wherever you find them. (Shakir) Surah 2: 193: And fight with them until there is no persecution, and religion should be only for Allah. (Shakir) Surah 3:151: We will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve , because they set up with Allah that for which He has sent down no authority and their abode is the fire, and evil is the abode of the unjust. (Shakir) Surah 7:4: How many a township have We destroyed! As a raid by night, or while they slept at noon, Our terror came unto them . (Pickthall) Surah 8:12: When your Lord revealed to the angels: I am with you, therefore make firm those who believe. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them . (Shakir) Surah 8:60: Against them make ready your strength to the utmost of your power, including steeds of war, to strike terror into the hearts of the enemies , of Allah and your enemies. (Yusuf Ali) Surah 8:65: O Prophet! Rouse the Believers to the fight . If there are twenty amongst you, patient and persevering, they will vanquish two hundred: if a hundred, they will vanquish a thousand of the Unbelievers: for these are a people without understanding. (Yusuf Ali) Surah 9:5: So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them , and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush. (Shakir) Surah 9:14: Fight them, Allah will punish them by your hands and bring them to disgrace , and assist you against them and heal the hearts of a believing people.” (Shakir) Surah 9:73: O Prophet! Strive hard against the unbelievers and the Hypocrites, and be firm against them. Their abode is Hell, – an evil refuge indeed. (Yusuf Ali) Surah 9:111: Lo! Allah hath bought from the believers their lives and their wealth because the Garden will be theirs they shall fight in the way of Allah and shall slay and be slain. (Pickthall) Surah 9:123: O you who believe! Fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness . (Shakir)

truthman2013:
[img]https://jacobpiotrowski540.files./2013/11/life-sentence.jpg[/img]

Illiteracy is a disease that kilks faster than AIDS.

truthman..

insult without adressing the op. The thread you open is full of lies , the thread has been debunked. Fake truthman

truthman2013:


Here is what a critic of Islam that is not an illiterate like you said:


A comprehensive commentary on the Quran – By Reverend E. M. Wherry volume 2 page 274.

You need to read between lines and stop jumping like a kangaroo.

truthmanm.

shut up! You say the battle was not against christians or the Jew but against the Romans. Are the Romans not christians ? Who are the people of the book ? Are they not Jews ? Or did Allah gave the Romans another book ?(as usual)

To understand the purposes of this verse, we need to quote from 28 to 29:

Surah 9:28-29: O ye who believe!
Truly the PAGAN ARE UNCLEAN; SO LET
THEM NOT , AFTER tHIS YEAR of theirs,
approach the SACRED MOSQUE. AND IF YE FEAR POVERTY , soon will Allah
enrich you , if He wills, out of His
bounty, for Allah is All-knowing, All-
wise. Fight those who believe not in
Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that
forbidden which hath been forbidden
by Allah and His Messenger, nor
acknowledge the religion of Truth,
even if they are of the People of the
Book, until they PAY THE JIZYA with
willing submission and feel themselves subdued.

Yes, It is all about money. Muslims were commanded to fight the Jews and Christians “until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.” Allah’s commandment to fight the Jews and Christians is not because they were attacking or even planning to attack the Muslims but because the Muslims FEARED POVERTY.

A new situation developed, resulting in the sudden loss of trade for Muslims. This was because Allah now prohibited the polytheist(PAGAN) from entering the sacred Mosque in Mecca.Well, what was Allah’s solution for the financial reversal of the Muslims? Yes! Attack the Jews and Christians and let them compensate for the loss of trade. This is made clear in Surah 9:28 (the verse preceding Surah 9:29).

The Tafsir by Ibn Kathir clarifies the Historical Context for Allah’s purpose in revealing Surah 9:28-29. Ibn Kathir, The Battles of the Prophet, pp. 183-4:

Allah, Most High, ordered the
believers to prohibit the
disbelievers from entering or
coming near the sacred Mosque. On
that, Quraish thought that this
would reduce their profits from
trade. Therefore, Allah, Most High,
compensated them and ordered
them to fight the people of the
Book until they embrace Islam or
pay the Jizyah. Allah says, “O ye who
believe! Truly the pagans are
unclean; so let them not, after this
year of theirs, approach the sacred
Mosque. And if ye fear poverty, soon
will Allah enrich you, if He wills, out
of His bounty, for Allah is All-
Knowing, All-Wise. Fight those who
believe not in Allah nor the Last Day,
nor hold that forbidden which hath
been forbidden by Allah and His
Messenger, nor acknowledge the
religion of Truth, from among the
People of the Book, until they pay the
Jizyah with willing submission, and
feel themselves subdued.” (Surah
9:28-29) Therefore, the Messenger of
Allah decided to fight the Romans in
order to call them to Islam.

“Therefore, the Messenger of Allah
decided to fight the Romans .” The
Romans were Christians. “The Messenger of Allah decided to fight
the Romans” not because the Romans
were attacking or planning to attack the
Muslims but because of Allah’s command in Surah 9:29. It was a unilateral attack by the Muslims because of Allah’s solution for their impending poverty.
Should any Christian convert to Islam out of fear, then he will have to now pay
Zakat like the rest of the Muslims.
Should he refuse to convert, then he has to pay a hefty sum of his wealth as
compensation for his life. And this is not
a one-off thing. The monetary compensation has to be paid on a
regular basis as long as he is under the
Muslim yoke. This form of protection
money that Allah shamelessly extorts
from Christians is known as Jizya. Any
Christian who fails to pay will be put to
death. It is win, win situation for Islam.
Allah knew that most Christians would
rather pay the Jizya tax than convert to
Islam. Thus, like a common gangster,
Allah promised to enrich the Muslims
through extortion. Allah is an extortioner.

The op is a liar (fake truthman)

Surah 9:29: Fight those who believe
not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor
hold forbidden which hath been
forbidden by Allah and His
Messenger, nor acknowledge the
religion of Truth, EVEN IF THEY ARE THE PEOPLE OF THE BOOK , until they pay
the Jizya with willing submission
and feel themselves subdued. (Yusuf
Ali)

According to the lie being told by the op , he say the command was to fight against the Byzantine (Roman) empire. okay!! who are "THE PEOPLE OF THE BOOK " know doubt the people of the book are the Jews and christians. The verse say, “fight those who believe not in Allah.” those who believe not in Allah are the Jews and christians including the Roman, but the op interpretation is very very wrong
, are the Roman not christians? He interprete is as if the Roman are not christians, confused op.

It also commands Muslims to" fight all those who do not hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden for Allah and his Messenger.” This means that if you do not forbid for yourselves the things which Allah forbids, muslims has the right to fight and killed you.

And the verse say , if you do not aknowleged islam as the "RELIGION OF TRUTH" muslims has the right to fight you.
To be continue...

.

truthman2013:
That must have been because of the level of your illiteracy or perhaps you are suffering from cataract. If you can't differentiate between real 'truthful man' and 'lie-man2012 despite the fact that I type in red while lie-man doesn't, I can't help but shake my head for you.



Old man, I noticed that you went into a temporary oblivion after I challenged you. Watssup with you?

..truthman.

just like the quran copied from the bible and then called the bible(the original) fake and and the quran (photocopy) real. This is exactly what you are doing.

Scholar8200:
Original sin refers not to acts of sin but a nature/likeness; a result of Adam's disobedience!
Adam was created , not born, and the purpose of God was that by Adam and Eve, the earth will be populated by descendants that are after Adam's likeness. After he fell to temptation, Adam was separated from God (spiritually) and those born by him came into the world in the same likeness: condition of separation from God:
When Adam had lived 130 years, he had a son in his own likeness, after his image; and he named him Seth.
Genesis 5:3

What was the implication of the highlighted:

The Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination and intention of all human thinking was only evil continually.
Genesis 6:5

Was that how God created Adam originally? NO

Said David:
5 Behold, I was brought forth in [a state of] iniquity; my mother was sinful who conceived me [and I too am sinful].
Psalm 50:5

That is why Jesus also came to bring an end to all that came by Adam's fall:
21 For since [it was] through a man that death [came into the world, it is] also through a Man that the resurrection of the dead [has come].
1Corinth 15:21

For just as by one man’s disobedience (failing to hear, [k]heedlessness, and carelessness) the many were constituted sinners, so by one Man’s obedience the many will be constituted righteous (made acceptable to God, brought into right standing with Him).
Romans 5:19




This is different from an inherited nature! An inherited nature that will express itself in a sinful lifestyle. Nobody can fully pay for his sins!!!
Psalm49:7
7 None of them can by any means redeem [either himself or] his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him—
Sin affects both time and Eternity and is judged in both realms! So whatever repercussions we suffer for sin on earth does not atone for our sins:
It is blood that makes atonement for the soul!



That is why apart from forgiveness, The Redemption accomplished by Christ is particularly directed towards transformation of the nature of man:
And He made no difference between us and them, but cleansed their hearts by faith ([d]by a strong and welcome conviction that Jesus is the Messiah, through Whom we obtain eternal salvation in the kingdom of God).
Acts 15:9

25 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, pretenders (hypocrites)! For you clean the outside of the cup and of the plate, but within they are full of extortion (prey, spoil, plunder) and grasping self-indulgence.
26 You blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and of the plate, so that the outside may be clean also.
Matthew 23:25,26
Vs 25 describes that which religion does for you- whitewashes the external only while the heart/nature remains the same!
The highlighted describes what God does for those who seek Him for it , being one of the greatest blessing in the New Covenant ratified through Jesus Christ!

I'd take this as a 'bible study class. Nice one bro. God bless you.