₦airaland Forum

ikenigel:
All I see in this post from your use of 'god' and 'God' is all DISCRIMINATION and nothing more. Get used to the fact that different humans around different areas of the world have different conceptions about the one true Almighty God and so build their religions around their own understanding. God is too mysterious and infinite to be well known by only one particular religion.
Get used to it and stop trying to stir up differences and intensified hatred.

what you are trying to say is this: the universe is too big to have been created by one God. Anyway we are not talking about the uses of the name God/Allah, No, we are talking about the relationship of God to his creatures.

AlfaSeltzer:
he made it

both the bible and the quran say the heaven and earth was the first God created and man was the last, the bible say man was created from dust, dust exist from the beginning but clot? No. Beside we are talking about procreation.

kingk:
Sorry bro, these quote(s) ^^^^ is not in line with the context. however, like I previously said "I don't like to be contencious" I prefare leaving a word on conviction to people and God will do the rest.

how can they hear without a preacher? Faith come by hearing the word through christ.

When you want to ask question concerning Islam, don't ask something that is not in the quran or hadith and don't let your question be insultive . Don't ask a question that will lead to insult, they may see it as insult, but as long as your question is in the quran, then you are not far from the truth. I grew up in a muslims community and I have a muslims barground infacte my father name is Ahmed now a christian, soo when I ask a question about Islam, I do not ask as a stranger.

As I’ve studied the spiritual power
behind Islam and wondered how this
spiritual power influenced Muhammad’s theology, a well known difference between Islam’s god and Christianity’s God kept coming to mind. That difference is that Islam’s god is never described or known as "Father", but in both Christianity and Judaism, God is known as Father.
I thought about this not just from a mere doctrinal point of view, (anyone familiar with basic Islam knows that it has no concept of God as Father), but rather from a spiritual and relational point of view. I realized something about Muhammad’s relationship: the spiritual power behind Islam never gave
Muhammad the intimate love that a
father gives his son . That is why
Muhammad NEVER called that spiritual
power "father". He simply did not know it that way. The relationship between
Muhammad and his god was one of a
slave to his master, with obedience,
rather than love, being the primary
impulse. Below is how Muhammad
described this relationship.

Narrated 'Umar:
I heard the Prophet saying, "Do not
exaggerate in praising me as the
Christians praised the son of Mary,
for I am only a Slave. So, call me the
Slave of Allah and His Apostle." [1]

(NOTE 1: Muhammad did talk about
loving Allah, and about Allah’s love. But
Allah’s love is predicated upon the
Muslim’s performance and obedience,
not on their relationship. More on that
later.)
(NOTE 2: I know the word "Allah" means
God in Arabic and that Arabic Christians
use the word "Allah" for God. However,
when I use the word, "Allah", I am
specifically referring to the god of Islam).

Sura 5:18
And (both) the Jews and the
Christians say: "We are the children
of Allah and His loved ones." Say:
"Why then does He punish you for
your sins?" Nay, you are but human
beings, of those He has created, He
forgives whom He wills and He
punishes whom He wills. And to Allah
belongs the dominion of the heavens
and the earth and all that is between
them, and to Him is the return (of all).


You can see from the Quranic verse above that Muhammad refused to accept Christians and Jews as God’s children because He disciplined them. However, both the Old and New Testaments Bible teach that a loving father disciplines his children.

Hebrews 12:7-11
Endure hardship as discipline; God is
treating you as sons. For what son is
not disciplined by his father? If you
are not disciplined (and everyone
undergoes discipline), then you are
illegitimate children and not true
sons. Moreover, we have all had
human fathers who disciplined us
and we respected them for it. How
much more should we submit to the
Father of our spirits and live! Our
fathers disciplined us for a little while
as they thought best; but God
disciplines us for our good, that we
may share in his holiness. No
discipline seems pleasant at the time,
but painful. Later on, however, it
produces a harvest of righteousness
and peace for those who have been
trained by it.

Op. Muslims don't know the answer to your question so expect insult from them.

kingk:
Afraid of what?..........we are human being with body working with blood,bone, flesh and water, We can't comprehend the full mystry of our existence. So, what's the point to argue there?

I understand your points very well. But the book of Romans say:

Romans 10:14-21
14 How, then, can they call on the one
they have not believed in? And how can
they believe in the one of whom they
have not heard? And how can they hear
without someone preaching to them? 15
And how can anyone preach unless they
are sent? As it is written: “How beautiful
are the feet of those who bring good
news!”[ g]
16 But not all the Israelites accepted the
good news. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who
has believed our message?”[ h] 17
Consequently, faith comes from hearing
the message, and the message is heard
through the word about Christ. 18 But I
ask: Did they not hear? Of course they
did:
“Their voice has gone out into all the
earth,
their words to the ends of the world.”[i]
19 Again I ask: Did Israel not
understand? First, Moses says,
“I will make you envious by those who
are not a nation;
I will make you angry by a nation that
has no understanding.”[ j]
20 And Isaiah boldly says,
“I was found by those who did not seek
me;
I revealed myself to those who did not
ask for me.”[ k]
21 But concerning Israel he says,
“All day long I have held out my hands
to a disobedient and obstinate people.”[l]

Where are the muslims? Are they still sleeping?

Presidency25:
I want to know, is Allah an English word or Arabic? If it's Arabic, why then do muslims used it while speaking English instead of just saying God? Could it be that Allah is not the same as God?

Allah and the God of the bible are not the same, deep inside them they know Allah is not God in the bible that why even when the speak English but when it reach the time to pronounced God they chose to say Allah instead.

Read here, Allah exist in pre-Islamic era
http://www.balaams-ass.com/alhaj/page10.htm

And the quran and hadith proved that Islam way of worship is the same as pagan worship there gods during the pre-Islamic era.

kingk:
Over the years, I've learnt not to be contencious about religion.......@ bolded^^^^^

are you afraid or what? Even in Christianity we are advice to ask question and be fully convinced, Jesus did not want us to accepts him in blind faith, john even advice us to test every spirit.

If anyone should believe in Jesus as the son of God that should be john the baptist, YET john send his disciples to confirmed if Jesus is the christ. But Jesus did not condemned him, instead He performed miracle in the present of john disciples and command them to tell john what they saw.

emrain:
still yet, he was a friend of God and God couldn't save him from destruction. God preferred to save a big ass prostitute instead of his good friend.

pucci will forever have it's hold on men and mythological Gods.

I don't want to reply you because you know nothing about the bible. Jesus did not forced anybody to accepts his teaching, he preach the word and go.the prostitute was the one who find him. Judas on the other hand seat with Jesus, ate and talk to him but still judas allow satan to enter him. It a choice.

AlfaSeltzer:
Maybe he used all those ingredients

were did he got the clot of blood from?

kingk:
Now I wouldn't want to ask "who wrote the quran?".......cos from bible pespective, our God the creator is not the author of confusion

according to muslims, Allah wrote it, but why will allah say a word in one verse and later change what he say?

Surah 6:115: “The word of your Lord
is complete, in truth and justice.
NOTHING SHALL ABROGATE HIS WORD .
He is the Hearer, the
Omniscient.”

However, note the contradiction in Surah 2:106:

“Whatever verse we shall abrogate,
or cause (thee) TO FORGET , WE WILL BRING A BETTER ONE THAN IT, OR ONE LIKE UNTO IT o. Dost thou not know that
God is almighty?” (Sale)

Plainly writen, allah is not steady in his word.

kingk:
God is not the author of confusion.

in the quranic verses the op qoute, it proved allah is the author of confusion.

Dsaintprodigy:
None

Allah got it all wrong?

It is he who has created man from
WATER
-- Sura 25:54
And God has created EVERY LIVING CREATURES FROM WATER.
-- Sura 24:45
We created man from SOUNDING CLAY ,
from mud moulded into shape.
-- Sura 15:26
Amongst his signs is this,
that he created you from DUST.
-- Sura 30:20
Proclaim!
In the name of thy Lord and
Cherisher, who created -
created man, out of a mere CLOT OF
CONGEALED BLOOD -- Sura 96:1-2

Water,clot of blood,sounding clay, dust. Which is correct?

theAtheist101:
What do you mean by satan entered him? Did satan also enter Eve?

He was tempted to do the right thing, according to your bible, and he yielded. Which was celebrated in tge "heavens"-- my thought. No entering of any kind was involved, as I was told. I would further think for him that: he did the betrayal to help save you christians. And he committed suicide because he later found out that those he did the dirty job for were/are ingrates.

were do scripture say he did the right thing?

theAtheist101:
Then don't worry. I thought you were arranging the meeting.

Romans 10:10-13
10 For it is with your HEART that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your FAITH and are saved. 11 As Scripture says, “Anyone who believes
in him will never be put to shame.”[ e] 12
For there is no difference between Jew
and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all
and richly blesses all who call on him, 13
for, “Everyone who calls on the name of
the Lord will be saved.”

You see verse 10 talk about faith and heart and pay close attention to the next verse:
Verse14-15
14 How, then, can they call on the one
they have not believed in? And how can
they believe in the one of whom they
have not heard? And how can they hear
without someone preaching to them? 15
And how can anyone preach unless they
are sent? As it is written: “How beautiful
are the feet of those who bring good
news!”[ g]

So I ask, how can you called on Jesus who you did not believe or have faith in him?

theAtheist101:
So you agree he is a hero and that he would enter the heaven Jesus promised you? Then, can you name your child Judas?

he is not because the bible clearly say satan entered him.but after he saw how the Jews are treating Jesus he regret return the money and hung himself. Judas mean praised, naming your child praised does not mean you name him judas?

menesheh:
I will like to see both of them to be sure of the whole claims.

Is that possible for me to see it?

theAtheist101:
Me me me me! I want to see all of them. Satan, god, Jesus, then others. Can you arrange our meeting? I have some pertinent questions to ask each of them. I would be so grateful! Should I send you my phone number?

[/quote]Do you guys have enough faith you will encounter them?

theAtheist101:
How did you know that he never called Jesus Lord? You were meant to say: he never called Jesus Lord in the bible!

I don't care if he was selfish in his ambition or not, but that he helped create a path to the attainment of your "salvation". This could either be by mistake or purposely, but the bottom line is that he helped Jesus to achieve his ultimate task. So, he is a hero!

see, I am not against judas, but the way you guys are twisting the story and your intention make me to comment here. Judas is the Greek form of the Hebrew Judah, which means
PRAISE.judah is were most of the priest came from. In Matthew 27:3 judas repent and return all the money, in my first post I made a mistake in saying judas did not repent,He repented but he hung himself because he fill guilty.

menesheh:
We are in a globalized world and my view about the universe is a bit wilder and the jinx about about the superiority of every culture and religious believes is broken by resent technological advancement connecting regions, culture, believes etc together which makes it possible for a person in Pakistan to become a Christian or even a hindu after studying the claims of each.

I was raised up a jew in Nigeria and find the stories of virgin birth, trinity and those sorts of Christian stuffs vulgar and difficult to integrate into.




This is where my problems lied, actually i know about the existence of other religious believes each claiming superiority with honesty and certainty. Just believing in one without enough evidence as u pointed out is to me irrational. Is like telling to some weird and legendary stories and expect me believing in it.




Seemed to me like i made myself clear.

bible say many are called but few are chosen, if you closely observ the teaching of Jesus, when ever Jesus preach, he always advice them not to received him with blind faith.

The Christian life is more than a life of
blind trust. It is a life of rational
examination that challenges each of us
to evaluate the evidence, form a
conclusion and then share that
conclusion with the world around us.
Let’s examine the Biblical model of
evidential faith:
CHRISTIANS ARE CALLED TO USE THEIR
MIND>>>>"You shall love the Lord your
God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the great and foremost
commandment." ( Matthew 22:37-38)

When we examine our world and the
evidence for the existence of God, we are worshipping God with our mind.it's either we love God with our mind or reject him, it's a choice.

Read this thread https://www.nairaland.com/2148108/christian-faith-based-upon-evidence

johnydon22:
I enjoy this type of stories well well

Ok bro tell us what the real self of a demon looks like then...since you saw one..

ok we believe you

oya good, now tell us what the Jesus you saw looks like, black or white, long hairs or short?
when he told you he loved you, was it with a silky feminine voice or baritone voice?

(Or you read it from a book)

answer yes or no. Which among them do you want to see? Satan or Jesus?

theAtheist101:
He allowed satan to enter him to achieve the main aim of Jesus, right? Then he is an hero! He knew the huge task ahead of him -- the "salvation" of Christians -- still he was selfless and carried the "cross" for you. Isn't that god like?

judas never called Jesus Lord, he only called him Rabbi (teacher)meaning he did not have faith in Jesus ,judas has his own plan, he was a greedy man , whenever the bible mention his name, they will say "the one who betrayed Him"
John 12:4–8
4 But Judas Iscariot, one
of his disciples (he who was about to
betray him), said, 5 “Why was this
ointment not sold for three hundred
denarii and given to the poor?” 6 He
said this, not because he cared about the
poor, but because he was a thief, and
having charge of the money bag he used to help himself to what was put into it. 7
Jesus said, “Leave her alone, so that she
may keep it for the day of my burial. 8
For the poor you always have with you,
but you do not always have me.”

From this verse, we can see his selfish ambition.

johnydon22:
Ooh great, meaning when jesus was sent, he wasnt sent to come and die but the devil saw him and incited the people to kill him....... Now that's another one... Go on

John 13:26–27
26 Jesus answered, “It is he to whom I
will give this morsel of bread when I
have dipped it.” So when he had dipped
the morsel, he gave it to Judas, the son
of Simon Iscariot. 27 Then after he had
taken the morsel, SATAN ENTERED INTO HIM. Jesus said to him, “What you are
going to do, do quickly.”

FOLYKAZE:
Bla bla bla

If God provides for you a bread today, wont you request for another one tomorrow?

That aside, Moses is a liar and the inspirer of the bible is a very deceitful being if we are going to agree with your position.

The fact remains that Moses saw God on the account on what is read from the bible.

God did not inspired Moses to see his face, he only inspired him to pass the message to the isrealite.

Moses say he saw the face of God does not mean he is telling lie,I will say he was confused of the view.

onetrack:
Exactly. He did exactly what Jesus wanted him to do. He is one of the most faithful and loyal followers of Jesus.

you know why I love this post? Because it's show you guys do not no the bible.

johnydon22:
So then that means satan plotted the death of Jesus then...?


Because without this so called satan as you said, Judas won't betray Jesus and without Betraying Jesus, he wouldn't have been killed (isn't that what he came to do before, to get killed) then if he wasn't killed, no salvation for you then.... This is quite funny...


This means the so called satan plotted and executed the plans for ur salvation..

yes satan plotted it.

In the parable of the venyerd.

"and when they saw the heir coming, they say let us kill him so that the inheritance will be ours"

theAtheist101:
Is the man not part of the world?

you did not read the story very well, judas did not do this on his own, it was through the temptation of satan, as a matter of fact, judas was one of Jesus favourite, Jesus call him my friend.but give heed to satan.

Peter deny Jesus three time, Jesus even say to peter "get thee behind me satan" but peter repent and judas did not.

All the teaching and preaching of Jesus ,STILL he allow satan to enter him.

FOLYKAZE:
The bible is very clear unless you want to prove it is inpired by a confusionist.

Starting with, the bible stated that lot of people including Moses saw God. Not only that, Moses speak with him face to face just like friends talk to each other.

Exodus 33:11 express the incident with a direct comparison with friend relationship. Friends who talk together face to face see themselves. They dont hide in veil. This is the same thing that plays out between God and Moses.

On the issue of contradicting proclaimation. That is the issue of you, inspirer of the scripture and the character in in. This buttress the point that one of you is lying.

Exodus 33:11 is clear like the morning sun, Moses saw God face to face.

Moses and other's claimed they saw God BUT God on the other hand say NO man can see him and live, it is clear, whay they saw was not God that is why Moses request to only see His glory but God say NO, you cannot see my FACE. If Moses see God face, he would not ask to see it again.

menesheh:
I had alarming dream yesterday night which was half sleep dream (combination of consciousness and subconsciousness) and i was shown the end of the world and how things work at the other realm aside ours.


Woke up from my slumber and i started contemplating on the whole scenario. I decided now to go back the theist way again but my only problem is


"which messiah story should i choose"

I started my research again and then saw these tweat from dawkins with Wikipedia url but still need more advice.

Theist advice need.
Mature ones pls




http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_messiah_claimants


ZoranderGraeme
RapLawd
malvisguy212

Jesus never advice his follower to follow him blindly, He want us to be sure of what we believe,if you truly had a vision as you claimed, you would not be asking which messiah you are to followed,Jesus christ will never revealed this to you and left you confused.

I saw demon claimed to be the christ, (this happened when I was a sinner) immediately I rebuke him, after that he transformed into his real self. I tell you the truth my good friend, the first time I had encounter with Jesus christ, I knew it was Him, He called my name and say He love me. I am telling you the truth, I have no proof to give you, but I know what I saw. If you believe me Good and if you did not believe me, I will still say Good. It a choice. Peace

FOLYKAZE:
Stop distorting english my friend. The verse is simple and very easy to undetstand. Only fabricators and twister then to deploy another meaning to what thay verse said.

The verse is a typicak figure of speech called similes. With the use of 'as'., there is a direct comparison between Moses-God and friends. This further buttress that they indeed talked face to face like friends do.

That aside,
Exodus 24:9-11

9 Moses and Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, and the seventy elders of Israel went up 10 and saw the God of Israel. Under his feet was something like a pavement made of lapis lazuli, as bright blue as the sky. 11 But God did not raise his hand against these leaders of the Israelites; they saw God, and they ate and drank.

Moses and lot others saw God. What ya say about this?

Exodus 24:9-11
9 Moses and Aaron, Nadab and
Abihu, and the seventy elders of
Israel went up 10 and saw the God of
Israel. Under his feet was something
like a pavement made of lapis lazuli,
as bright blue as the sky. 11 But God
did not raise his hand against these
leaders of the Israelites; they saw
God, and they ate and drank.

Here we are told Moses and the elder see God face to face.But later, Moses was not allowed to see God's face.

Exodus 33:18-23
18 Then Moses said, “Now show me
your GLORY.”
19 And the Lord said, “I will cause all
my goodness to pass in front of you,
and I will proclaim my name, the
Lord, in your presence. I will have
mercy on whom I will have mercy,
and I will have compassion on whom
I will have compassion. 20 But,” he
said, “you CANNOT SEE MY FACE , for no
one may see me and live.”
21 Then the Lord said, “There is a
place near me where you may stand
on a rock. 22 When my glory passes
by, I will put you in a cleft in the rock
and cover you with my hand until I
have passed by. 23 Then I will
remove my hand and you will see my
back; but my face must not be seen.”

Moses request to see God GLORY, but God answer was you CANNOT see my face,it is clear, what Moses and the elder saw first was God glory and Moses request to see it again but God say NO.

Does it make sense to you that after Moses see God face but later he still ask to see the glory of God but God say "you cannot see my face? The ONLY explanation to this is that they(Moses and the elder) did not see God face that is why Moses want to see it AGAIN , just to look the face, but God know the thought of Moses,He know, Moses want to see His face, that why he say no "NO MAN CAN SEE MY FACE AND LIVE" (you ask to see my Glory and my reply was "no" you cannot see my FACE, did Moses ask to see the face in the first place?no, but God can read his mind)

smallrincowis16:
*the sinners upon Tawheed, they will either be punished on the Day of Judgment for their sins or Allaah will forgive them but they will not be forever in Hell..

so after allah has judge the muslims and the sinner were thrown into hell, they will still have second chance to repent? O MY God, this is pure satanic deception. I will say muslims are greedy.