₦airaland Forum

tola9ja:
...They said, “We killed the Messiah Jesus, son of Mary, the messenger of God." They did not kill him, nor did they crucify him, but the likeness of him was put on another man (and they killed that man)... (Qur'an, 4:157)

did john the baptist died?
Surah 3;55
God said, “O Jesus, I shall cause you
to die and will raise you up to Me
and shall clear you [of the calumnies]
of the disbelievers, and shall place
those who follow you above those
who deny the truth, until the Day of
Judgement.” (W. Khan)

This verse emphasizes that Allah caused
Jesus to die before he was raised to
heaven. But more importantly, this verse shows that the death and ascension of Jesus occurred before the “Day of Judgement.”

Jesus had the following conversation with Allah in heaven After he died
Surah 5:177
I was a witness to what they did as
long as I remained among them, and
when You did cause me to DIE, You
were the watcher over them. You are
the witness of all things. (W. Khan)

tola9ja:
god bless you but why did some christians believe jesus is lord/god

have you ever seen a demon possessed person? the person has two nature,demon and flash.

Jesus is God,, GOD HIMSELF POSSESSED A WHITE/BLACK SKIN FLASH DWELL AMONG US. when Jesus prayed it is the flash nature that prayed.

tola9ja:
brainwashed

there are evidence in the quran that prove Jesus died.

If Jesus did not died, do you also believe john the baptist did not died?

tola9ja:
malvisguy212,PASTORKUN ANSWER THE QUESTION

you don't understand the nature of God, your mind can't comprehend it, to you it's foolishness.

Jesus has two nature;
1.the word of God that was made flash. (john1:14) in other word Jesus has a flash nature.
2.the. Spirit of God.( Luke4:18 and isaiah 61:1)even the quran proves my points, Jesus the spirit of God.

When Jesus cried, he was in the nature of the flash, spirit don't feel pain, so yes, God did not answer the prayer of Jesus because he prayed when he was indwelling in the flash.

Bible say he became sinner so that we would became righteous, he became a caused and free us from the nature of sin.

[quote author=sameera025 post=29868302][/quote]your earlier post indicates "no compulsory in religion, but the verse I quote say, if they turn ,size them.is this not compulsory?

sameera025:
God says in the Quran:

"There is no compulsion in religion…" (Quran 2:256)

Not only does Islam demand their freedom to practice religion, but also that they be treated justly as any other fellow human.  Warning against any abuse of non-Muslims in an Islamic society, the Prophet stated:

"Beware!  Whoever is cruel and hard on a non-Muslim minority, curtails their rights, burdens them with more than they can bear, or takes anything from them against their free will; I (Prophet Muhammad) will complain against the person on the Day of Judgment." (Abu Dawud)

Prophet Muhammad had a Jewish neighbour and this person used to every morning throw his garbage at the door step of the Prophet's home. The Prophet would then pick it up and throw it in the disposal area along with his personal trash. One morning the Prophet didn't see any garbage on his door step and he didn't really care much about it. The next morning same thing and so on, until a week passed by without any garbage being put on the Prophet's door step. So our Prophet went to that Jewish neighbor and paid him a visit to check on him. The Jewish neighbor was sick and he was in bed. Our Prophet then started taking care of his Jewish neighbor and the Jewish very soon embraced Islam because of our beloved Prophet's high morals.
The point of the story is that Prophet Muhammad was very ordinary. He wasn't rich nor was he treated with any special security by anyone. He spent his wealth on good Islamic causes and he was the best role model for everyone.

http://www.islamreligion.com/articles/374/viewall/

They but wish that ye should reject
Faith, as they do, and thus be on the
same footing (as they): But take not
friends from their ranks until they
flee in the way of God (From what is
forbidden). BUT IF THEY TURN
RENEGADE, SEIZED THEM AND SLAY
THEM wherever ye find them ; and
(in any case) take no friends or
helpers from their ranks; - Except
those who join a group between
whom and you there is a treaty (of
peace), or those who approach you
with hearts restraining them from
fighting you as well as fighting their
own people. If God had pleased, He
could have given them power over
you, and they would have fought you:
Therefore if they withdraw from you
but fight you not, and (instead) send
you (Guarantees of) peace, then God
Hath opened no way for you (to war
against them). Surah.4:89-90. Y. Ali

jayriginal:
I prefer to refer to myself as Jayriginal.

agnostics. You see, no matter how you try to disassociated your self, there's always a group you belong to.

There's God but you don't really know Him, to know the true God read this thread and ask your question.
https://www.nairaland.com/1999485/all-religions-lead-god-one

jayriginal:
I never said I believe its not God.

are you an atheist?

eaziaque:
Brother, you don't need my permission to publish any of your evidence or proofs, be free to do so, I'm waiting please. And I told you to go on more religious historical researchs before publishing certain things. It is true that prior to Islam as a religion in the Arabias, there was a lot idol worshipping, of which some members of Prophet Mohammed's (PBUH) housedolds were practitioners, even his uncle who raised him was one, but if Islam was idol worshipping as you claimed, then why was the Prophet beaten, percecuted, his followers killed and even driven out of their homelands? Why did the Makkans waged several wars against him and practioners of Islam if Islam doesn't contradict their own faith? why was when during their flee from their homes as God commanded them to do so, they were they accepted and protected by the christian King of Abbysinia, now Ethiopia, one of the strongest and faithful christian of that era. You need to learn more about this religion before you can accord yourself the right to critise it. The arabians were not only pagans before the arrival of Islam, they were christians and jews too, and even during the early era of Islamic faith, churches are the places of worship for muslims before muslims started building Masjids (mosques), if they were worshipping the idols of Makkah as you claimed, would the christians and jews have accepted them to use their holy sanctuaries as a place of worship, these are not make-ups on my behalf, they are facts you can find if you really do your research, honestly I don't have anything against you promoting your religion and trying to expose what bad and ungodly you think there are in another, but please do this in a Godly way, do it free of suppositions and favours for or hatred against any of these religions, because as one of the Nairalanders commented, you may be cursing the name of the same God you believe in, all because you don't understand a language or do enough research concerning the religion you are critisizing, bearing false witness is one of the greatest sins, I'm sure you agree with me. Ask yourself why the christians and jews in Medina tolerated Islam and its practitioners in their midst before concluding Islam is a idol worshipping religion. And please I will be glad to have your proofs in form of quotes of Quran about Islam being paganism. May God's peace and blessings be upon you.

During the early stages of his prophetic
career in Mecca, Muhammad and his
followers prayed towards Jerusalem.
Even after their migration (hijra) to
Medina, Muslims continued with this
practice for about sixteen to seventeen
months. Islamic sources such as the
Qur’an, Sira and Tafsir, speak of the
change of Qiblah (Kiblah), from the
former Qiblah (Jerusalem) to the new
Qiblah (Mecca). Thus, Islam’s Qiblah was
originally towards Jerusalem. It is only
when Muhammad desired to pray
towards the Ka’ba in Mecca that Allah, as
usual, obliged and revealed the following
Qur’anic verse:
Surah (Al-Baqarah) 2:144: “We see
the turning of thy face for guidance to
the heavens: now shall We turn thee
to a Qibla that shall please thee.
Turn then Thy face in the direction
of the sacred Mosque : Wherever ye
are, turn your faces in that
direction.” (Yusuf Ali)
Sahih Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 2,
Number 39:
Narrated By Al-Bara’ (bin ‘Azib): When
the Prophet came to Medina, he
stayed first with his grandfathers or
maternal uncles from Ansar. He
offered his prayers facing Baitul-
Maqdis (Jerusalem) for sixteen or
seventeen months, but he wished
that he could pray facing the Ka’ba
(at Mecca). The first prayer which he
offered facing the Ka’ba was the ‘Asr
prayer in the company of some
people. Then one of those who had
offered that prayer with him came
out and passed by some people in a
mosque who were bowing during
their prayers (facing Jerusalem). He
said addressing them, “By Allah, I
testify that I have prayed with Allah’s
Apostle facing Mecca (Ka’ba).” Hearing
that, those people changed their
direction towards the Ka’ba
immediately. Jews and the people of
the scriptures used to be pleased to
see the Prophet facing Jerusalem in
prayers but when he changed his
direction towards the Ka’ba, during
the prayers, they disapproved of it.
Al-Bara’ added, “Before we changed
our direction towards the Ka’ba
(Mecca) in prayers, some Muslims
had died or had been killed and we
did not know what to say about them
(regarding their prayers.) Allah then
revealed: And Allah would never
make your faith (prayers) to be lost
(i.e. the prayers of those Muslims
were valid).'” (2:143).
Why did Muhammad express a desire to
pray facing the Ka’ba while it remained a
pagan shrine? At the time when Surah
2:144 was revealed to change the Qiblah
from Jerusalem to Mecca, the Ka’ba was
still a pagan shrine housing 360 pagan
idols. Why would Allah permit his
Prophet to bow towards the Ka’ba while it
was still polluted with 360 pagan idols?
The command given in the Qur’an to
change the Qiblah predates by years the
conquest of Mecca. Those idols were
destroyed only after the conquest of
Mecca. Thus, during all those intervening
years, between the time the Qiblah was
changed towards the Ka’ba and the
conquest of Mecca, whenever
Muhammad faced the Ka’ba to pray, the
Ka’ba remained a shrine of idol-worship.
This is not an insignificant matter in
terms of worship. Why was Muhammad
not commanded to wait until the removal
of those idols? Why did Allah submit to
Muhammad’s desire and as a result
make it a requirement for the early
Muslims to bow towards the direction of
the pagan idols, whenever they approach
him in prayer during all those
intervening years? Did not Allah say, “To
Allah belongs the East and the West”?
Why, then must the prayers of the
Muslims be directed towards the pagan
shrine in order to reach the ears of
Allah? Notice the commanding tone of
Allah in Surah 2:144:

jayriginal:
You Sir, are a work of art. Where have I declared what I believe in? What does empty evidence even mean?

From your responses to me, you are the one who has blind faith. See the conversation below in case you have forgotten



my reply following your logic


Your double standards



So who comes off as someone who has blind faith? You do!

You should take your time to educate yourself about the issues.



Well thank you Mr Name Calling Christian. Your Jesus must be proud of you. Its not enough to say that there are many errors and satanic deceptions in my post. You need to point them out and identify which ones are errors and which are satanic deceptions. I have taken the time to show you the flaws in your logic. Its not my fault if you dont or (most likely) wont see them.

Oh by the way, there is nothing to worry about in not knowing who/what "caused" the Universe. There is a lot to worry about not being able to think critically.

let me tell you what am trying to say.

You don't have a clue on what caused the universe , but you believe it's not God, don't you think you put your self in a risk? When we say it God, your answer would have been OK.

jayriginal:
Look it up if you are interested. I am not here for that. Better to get your information from the source.



Ah, these are double standards. We are in the same position. I dont know who/what "caused" the world and on the basis of that you invite me to accept that God did it, just because the bible and christians say so.

Well, you really dont know who I had dinner with last night and I invite you to believe that I dined with the Obama family last night just because I say so. Instead of you to comply with your own standards, you are asking me for proof. I guess my work with you is done then.

you should be very worried because you don't know what caused the universe,meaning your atheism is base upon empty evidence(blind faith) .As a Christians,bible encourages us to be fully convinced of what we believe,bible say we should ask question and be sure of what we believe,john the baptist who supposed to have no doubt about Jesus still say this word" are you the Messiah or we should expect another?" he wanted to be sure of what he believe,hence, the question.there are many error and satanic deception in your post. The devil is deceiving you guys.

frank317:
Yahweh is the deity Abraham worshipped.

If u think it is wrong for people to worship Mohammed's father's deity... Why do u think it is right for u to worship Abraham's deity?

muhammed father worship a deity "Allah" he cave with his hand, but Abraham worship the true God who created him.

jayriginal:
No I dont.



Science does have an idea(s). Look it up.



First, I speak for myself only. Secondly, off the top of your head, can you tell me who I had dinner with last night? No? So you should have no problems if I tell you I dined with the Obama family last night. Can you see the flawed logic?

science had have an idea, so what that?

If you dine with someone last night,which I have no idea who is he, you will have to prove it.

truthman2012:
Don't mind them.

What is insult?

If Muhammad did something and is on record, is it an insult to say what he did?

Why did he do what should not be said in public?

somebody marry his adopted Son wife,had sex slaves and committed murder, and when you began to list it, they say you are insulting muhammed.

Nobody is insulting muhammed, is just that all his deed and command are in the quran.

sameera025:
The quran says:
"...If anyone kills a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he killed all people. And if anyone saves a life, it would be as if he saved the life of all people" (Qur'an 5:32).
And
"...Take not life, which God has made sacred, except by way of justice and law. Thus does He command you, so that you may learn wisdom" (6:151)

Anyone who doesn't adhere to this is not following the rulings of the Quran.

this verses gives man the right to take life ",take no life which God has made sacred EXCEPT BY JUSTICE." the quran is all about revenge, it's time to say the truth, you cannot defects your enemy without knowing who they really are, there are lot of verses in the quran that advice Muslim to commit suicide to be saved from the punishment.

This is what muhammed preach;
Quran 5:45: "And We prescribed for
them therein: The life for the life, and
the eye for the eye, and the nose for
the nose, and the ear for the ear, and
the tooth for the tooth, and for
wounds retaliation. But whoso
forgoeth it (in the way of charity) it
shall be expiation for him. Whoso
judgeth not by that which Allah hath
revealed such as wrong-doers. "

This verse go against the teaching of Jesus;

Mattew 5
38 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye
for eye, and tooth for tooth.’[h]
39 But. I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If
anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also.
40 And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well.
41 If anyone forces you to go one mile, go with them two miles.
42 Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.
43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love
your neighbor and hate your enemy.’
44 But I tell you, love your enemies and
pray for those who persecute you,
45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on
the righteous and the unrighteous.
46 If you love those who love you, what
reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that?
47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that?
48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

eaziaque:
I don't like commenting on certain issues but I can't resist the will to comment on this. Firstly, I don't have a problem with a critics voicing his opinion on a religious issue once it is well structured, but when the criticism is disillusioned, low mark and full of immature supposition, coming from idle hands and mind, who seek limelight for whatsoever reasons well known to him, then it becomes a problem. Even a blind man can smell how immature and unprofessional this piece from truthman2012 is. It is not by "borrowing" quotes from the internet and coiling and merging it with some restless thoughts that makes you a religious critics, it is the ability to study relentlessly a religion both scripturally and in deeds without any hint of hate, prejudice or fanatism that makes someone like me respect you as a critics. Secondly, you think you know Islam? Well, you don't, you are not even capable of realising that the Word ALLAH is only the arabic equivalent of the english Word GOD, as it is in OLOHUN in yoruba, YAHWEH in hebrew and DIEU in french, meaning you never study the Quran, neither did you study the deeds of respectable islamist you know, then why for God's sake do you debate on an issue you are ignorant of? Why would you accord yourself the liberty and luxury of critising something you have no knowledge of, such ego can not ne driven by other than fanatism and hate. For your information, all Abrahamic faiths stems from the same source and despite the differences we made of them today, they all cut their belief (I use singular here because they are all of one belief) off paganism, polytheism and atheism, so where in your scriptures if you believe in one, do you see Islam, one of the Abrahamic faith having ties with paganism and atheism? Thirdly, please go back history lane before making religious historical references, you need to learn about "heresy" from christianity perspective, research on crusaders, impact and methodology of christianity in conquered lands, ask what the take of christianity is on slavery and its trade in africa, you may have your eyes opened a bit, ofcourse if you derobe yourself of that fanatism and hatred I sensed in you. Fourthly, you don't judge a religion or a faith based on what you observed in a particular grroup of persons, it tends to lead you astray, the Army of God in USA is a christian group (please research this), I can't say christianity tolerate homosexuality beacause certain church priests and archbishops indulge in the act and I can say all christians are ignorant because truthman2012 who seems to be writing as a christian author is discussing off point! A constitution serves as the guide-line and identity of a people, Quran is the Islamic constitution, if you can't take your time to study it and research it before going against its faith and its people, then please write no more of your confusing pieces. Religious issues are not issues you tabled based on your own thoughts, they are issues worth intensive and sincere research. May God's peace be unto you.

Allah is the deity muhammed grandfather worship during the pre-Islamic era infacte ,the manner in which Muslim worship Allah muhammed retain it for the worshipping of Allah (his father gods) there are evidence in your quran, I will provide it at your wish.

jayriginal:
I do not know who/what "caused" the Universe.

you don't know what or who caused the universe, so science don't have any idea of what caused the universe? If atheists don't have the idea of what caused the universe, then atheists should have no problems when Christian say it God that caused the universe.

Rilwon:
@moses, you no dey tire? always copying and pasting irrelevant post as response to poignant questions smh

I quote bible passages for you and you still called it copy and paste? Or do yoi want me to open my bible read the verse and type it? Are they not the same?

sameera025:
As muslims we are taught not to judge who will go to heaven or hell. It was quoted that a prostitute went to heaven for feeding a hungry cat and a muslim man went to hell for maltreating an animal. Islam teaches that if you commit suicide you will go to hell. If you kill you will go to hell. So.. As a muslim to get into heaven you shouldn't do either one.

read this thread https://www.nairaland.com/2092548/root-caused-islamic-terrorism

Rilwon:
Then how do you correlate this^^ with your earlier point that "God plan is for the wicked to ask for forgiveness"

Was ahab allowed to ask for for forgiveness?



Yahwwh himself approved the mission 2Ch 18:21 And he said, 'I will go forth, and will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets.' And he said, You are to entice him, and you shall succeed; go forth and do so. '

This indicate that the spirit was working for YahWeh and no other person, is'nt?

ahab was warn in 1kings 1:22 that if he goes to war at ramoah gilead he will die,infacte micaiah told him how the Lord will send a lying spirit to him,

1king 1:19-24
19 Micaiah continued, “Therefore hear
the word of the Lord: I saw the Lord
sitting on his throne with all the
multitudes of heaven standing around
him on his right and on his left. 20 And
the Lord said, ‘Who will entice Ahab into
attacking Ramoth Gilead and going to his
death there?’
“One suggested this, and another that.
21 Finally, a spirit came forward, stood
before the Lord and said, ‘I will entice
him.’
22 “‘By what means?’ the Lord asked.
“‘I will go out and be a deceiving spirit in
the mouths of all his prophets,’ he said.
“‘You will succeed in enticing him,’ said
the Lord. ‘Go and do it.’
23 “So now the Lord has put a deceiving
spirit in the mouths of all these prophets
of yours. The Lord has decreed disaster
for you.”
24 Then Zedekiah son of Kenaanah went
up and slapped Micaiah in the face.
“Which way did the spirit from[ a] the
Lord go when he went from me to speak
to you?” he asked.

They even slapped him read the full story here https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Kings%2022

God has already judge ahab long time ago but he allow him to filled up his measure,in
1 Kings 20:42
42 And he said to him, “Thus says the
Lord, ‘Because you have let go out of
your hand the man whom I had devoted
to destruction, therefore your life shall
be for his life, and your people for his
people.’ ”

Rilwon:
Thessalonians 2:11-12 [size=15pt] And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: [/size]

12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth,but had pleasure in unrighteousness .

How do we reconcile the above verse with the one you quoted up there?

this is the judgement for the reprobate nation. The context was talking about the" last day" they did not received the truth and they wanted to be saved, so God send them strong delusions.

Rilwon:
2Ch And Micai'ah said, "Therefore hear the word of the LORD: I saw the LORD sitting on his throne, and all the host of heaven standing on his right hand and on his left;
2Ch 18:19 and the LORD said, 'Who will entice Ahab the king of Israel, that he may go up and fall at Ramoth-gilead?' And one said one thing, and another said another.
2Ch 18:20 Then a spirit came forward and stood before the LORD, saying, 'I will entice him.' And the LORD said to him, 'By what means?'
2Ch 18:21 And he said, 'I will go forth, and will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets.' And he said, You are to entice him, and you shall succeed; go forth and do so .'

2Ch 18:22 Now therefore behold, the LORD has put a lying spirit in the mouth of these your prophets; the LORD has spoken evil concerning you."

What's up with yahweh and his angels?. . . .Why are they lying and deceiving people? Or is this part of the lying justice of yahweh. . . .

long before this happened, prophet micah had warn ahab not to fight the battle but ahab did not listen he even sought council with the worshippers of baal ,for this reason God pronounce judgment on ahab.
2Ch 18:20
Then A SPIRIT came forward and stood
before the LORD, saying, 'I will entice
him.' And the LORD said to him, 'By what
means?

The text say "a Spirit"if the spirit was one of the heavenly host the bible will indicate it.

Rilwon:
@Truthman2012 aka my in law , i don't need to reply your off point rebuttal, I coud'nt help but laugh at your ignorance after reading your claim that the preceding of your first point was not talking about Pharao but Jonah because the Surah itself was named after Jonah LMAO..this further show that you don't go through what you copy and paste here for us, and you don't have a copy of a Quran as you claim on a thread.

I believe any honest individual reading my rebuttal to your OP and reading your response will determine who is really on point.. I have to be gentle now, I dont want tis' mod to ban me again.

@Moses aka malvisguy212 aka Mr. C&P , hmmmm, your usual act of a gainsayer copy and paste.. ol boy your own case is far worse than that of trutman, I always know when to reply you and when not to. So whenever you start to show cognisance to issue on point without copying and pasting of irrelevant posts, maybe I will start taking you serious then.

@brocab....I don't know you and the nonsense you wrote is not an issue base on this thread. so carry your moro.nity away from here.

Make i dey watch b4 dis mod sama me ban again

I copy and paste the verses because I know them,or is there law on nairaland not to reply copy and paste verses?

You say the verse was talking about the honest Christians but the verse actually say otherwise"PEOPLE OF THE BOOK" some say "ASK THE FOLLOWERS" not ask the honest Christians as you put it.