₦airaland Forum

aanikky:
Lol... The person who gave the other translation must be sick in the head.
وَمَكَرُوا وَمَكَرَ اللَّهُ ۖ وَاللَّهُ خَيْرُ الْمَاكِرِينَ

And (the unbelievers) plotted and planned, and Allah too planned, and the best of planners is Allah.
The verb Makara means scheming or planning or plotting not deceiving, God doesnt deceive. You Christians are not even worth the time we spend refuting your claims. Which of the versions of the bible is the holiest so I go to the holieast of the bibles.. lol.... is it the same bible with discrepancies , the bible that talked bad of the people itself reffered to as men of God or which bible. The bible that Christians leave Christianity because they dont believe in it because of its contradictions. I know someone who recently became agnostic because he's fed up if the lies in the bible. I bet you dont read this so called bible. Is the book in which fathers slept with daughters written by God, or the book with so much contradictions. Please dont advise me, advise urself. Thanks .
And what's wrong with these verses of God made these mistakes:
II samuel 24:13 and I chronicles 21:11
IIchronicles 36:9 and II kings 24:8
II samuel 10:18 and I chronicles 19:18
I kings 7:26 and II cchronicles 4:5
Ii chronicles 9:25 and I kings 4:26


P.S. pls do not reply me if you dont have something to say about the above verses. Thanks

there are many verses in the quran that liken Allah to a deceiver,reconciled surah 3:54 with the below verse;
Surah 4:88: “Would you like to
guide him whom Allah has led into
error? And whomever Allah leads
into error , then you will never find
for him a way.” – Al-Qur’an

How can Allah have pleasure in leading you to error?no doubt this is the character of satan.comperd it with this verse from the bible;

Ezekiel 18:23: “‘Have I any pleasure
in the death of the wicked? saith the
Lord Jehovah; and not in that that he
should return from his way, and
live?’” – The Holy Bible

God plan is for the wicked to ask for forgiveness.
The Qur’an contains more than a

If you want to discuss the bible open a thread and ask, don't derailed this thread.moreover all the verse you quoted are for the Jews who rejected the grace of Jesus.

EvilBrain1:
Sorry, but you guys will not be allowed to tell lies unopposed on a public forum, believers thread or not. If you post something here, you'd better be ready to defend it with facts and logic.

You're far less likely to get rubbished if you avoid starting threads based on thoroughly debunked, copy-pasted nonsense.

the op lied? For what I've seen no atheists have respond to the op.

Why did Muhammad express a desire to
pray facing the Ka’ba while it remained a
pagan shrine? At the time when Surah
2:144 was revealed to. change the Qiblah
from Jerusalem to Mecca, the Ka’ba was
still a pagan shrine housing 360 pagan
idols. Why would Allah permit his
Prophet to bow towards the Ka’ba while it
was still polluted with 360 pagan idols?

Surah (Al-Baqarah) 2:144: “We see
the turning of thy face for guidance to
the heavens: now shall We turn thee
to a Qibla that shall please thee.
Turn then Thy face in the direction
of the sacred Mosque: Wherever ye
are, turn your faces in that
direction.” (Yusuf Ali)

Sahih Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 2,
Number 39:
Narrated By Al-Bara’ (bin ‘Azib): When
the Prophet came to Medina, he
stayed first with his grandfathers or
maternal uncles from Ansar. He
offered his prayers facing Baitul-
Maqdis (Jerusalem) for sixteen or
seventeen months, but he wished
that he could pray facing the Ka’ba
(at Mecca). The first prayer which he
offered facing the Ka’ba was the ‘Asr
prayer in the company of some
people. Then one of those who had
offered that prayer with him came
out and passed by some people in a
mosque who were bowing during
their prayers (facing Jerusalem). He
said addressing them, “By Allah, I
testify that I have prayed with Allah’s
Apostle facing Mecca (Ka’ba).” Hearing
that, those people changed their
direction towards the Ka’ba
immediately. Jews and the people of
the scriptures used to be pleased to
see the Prophet facing Jerusalem in
prayers but when he changed his
direction towards the Ka’ba, during
the prayers, they disapproved of it.
Al-Bara’ added, “Before we changed
our direction towards the Ka’ba
(Mecca) in prayers, some Muslims
had died or had been killed and we
did not know what to say about them
(regarding their prayers.) Allah then
revealed: And Allah would never
make your faith (prayers) to be lost
(i.e. the prayers of those Muslims
were valid).'” (2:143).

aanikky:
Lol... if anyone needs to be saved it's you, brainwashed by who. No one gets brainwashed in islam, we get our facts straight and clear, not from some mixed up source. See I cant stoop so low replying ignorant folks like you, you are just the way Rilwon described you before he replied you. Reply you is a waste of time

Surah 3:54: Then they schemed
(against the Messiah), and Allah
countered their schemes by
schemes of His own. Allah is the
best of schemers. (Maududi)

“And they cheated/deceived and God
cheated/deceived, and God (is) the
best (of) the cheaters/
deceivers.” (M. A. Samira)

How sure are Muslims that Allah is not
deceiving them also? It would be in their best interest for Muslims to search for the God of truth who by his very nature cannot lie or deceive. ( Hebrews 6:18). Muslims should turn to the true Word of God – the Holy Bible.

plappville:
What about the Muslims that killed 17 people in revenge of Muhammad? Is this in the teaching of Islam? where does this madness came from?

If you follow world news you know am talking about the 7-10th of January cold blooded terror that took place in France. They killed people bacause Muhammad was caricatured. And killed 4 Jews and Police. Is this a teaching from the Koran? If no where comes this teaching? They were so proud to die for this. I read a Muslim here posted an article validating this action. WhaWhere comes this madness? I need an answer please.

God bless you.
if you insult Allah, they will called you shatan(satan) but if you insult muhammed, run for your life.
I think this does not make any sense,it's a spell.

aanikky:
Saved from fire, not removed from fire. We muslims believe no one can enter paradise except with the mercy of God.
Even if it's translated as removed from fire, it doesn't state that everyone will be put in fire then removed. It's believed in Islam that some set of people will enter paradise, then these people will see some of their companions on earth in fire and they will intercede on their behalf, God will then command the angels to remove some people who believed in God from the fire. Not all Muslims will go straight to paradise, some people will go to hell then they will be removed. But all Muslims will enter paradise in the end, it's all dependent on what you do on earth.

you have been brainwashed too much, the righteous cannot be saved from fire because the will not go there, Islam is another way satan is diverting the children. Of God to hell. You even say the righteous will intercede on those who are in hell, this is wrong, I don't even know what to say right now, I pray God of wonder saved you from this kind of satanic doctrine in Jesus name Amen.

Rilwon:
Quran 21: 98 -103 You and whatever you worship except God shall be the fuel of hellfire, to which, all of you shall surely come -- had these truly been gods, they would not have reached this [end] -- all [burning] in it, forever. In it, for them shall be painful groans ofbanguish and in they shall be bereft of hearing. Indeed, those, [size=13pt] for whom We have already promised the good, they shall be kept away from this [hellfire].They shall not even hear the slightest sound of the growling fire; and they shall be among all that their souls shall desire,forever. They shall not be grieved by the great terror. [/size] And the angels shall receive them [saying]: 'This is the day, of which you were promised'.

Oya go and die

Surah 19:71:
“It is the inevitable
decree of your Lord that every one of
you will be taken to hell.” (Sarwar)

“There is not one of you who shall not
pass through the confines of
Hell.” (Dawood)

And the very next verse tells us:

Surah 19:72: “Then (Thumma) We
shall rescue those who kept from evil,
and leave the evil-doers crouching
there.” (Pickthall)

“AFTERWARDS (Thumma) we will
deliver those who shall have been
PIOUS, but we will leave the ungodly
therein on their knees.” (Sale)

What do you understand by pious? What will a good man be doing in hell?

This is the reason why many Muslim want to be suicide bomber, because Allah reward them direct heaven;

Surah 44:54: “So; and We shall join
them to fair women with beautiful,
big, and lustrous eyes. There can
they call for every kind of fruit in
peace and security; Nor will they
there taste Death, except the first
death; and He will PRESERVE THEM
FROM THE PENALTY OF THE BLAZING
FIRE.” (Yusuf Ali)

The Hadiths also serve as excellent
motivators for suicide bombing.
Sahih Bukhari, Volume 5, Book 59,
Number 377:
Narrated Jabir bin Abdullah: On the
day of the battle of Uhud, a man
came to the Prophet and said, “Can
you tell me where I will be if I should
get martyred?” The Prophet replied,
“In Paradise.” The man threw away
some dates he was carrying in his
hand, and fought till he was
martyred.

yazach:
19. A divine endowment that is not
possible to obtain by one’s self. This is a
type of gift from Allâh to whomever He
chooses. Must believe in Allah
You can now see that you are not qualify
when it comes to explaining the qura'an

does all the Islamic alfa had this quality? With all the barbaric act of muhammed, do you think he deserve the favour of a holy God who cannot ignored a little sin? Even a holy man cannot stand in front of the holy of holies ,he must purified himself talkless of muhammed who did soo many evil. Muhammed and Allah are the same person no doubt.

Rilwon:
First of all the words in the bracket are words of a gainsayer, a stiffnecked reprobate, only people like that would ask questions thinking its a tough one and cannot be answered.

Secondly, later on the thread you told me to addressed the OP when actually you have concluded that the op cannot be address by muslims, and that was why i asked what of I refute them what will you do? then you further conclude that i can never refute them without contradicting myself, gainsayer reprobate thats what you are.

Next time don't add the words in bracket to your post again.



First of all we have to understand the context of this verse, the story of Pharao was been narrated in the preceeding verse, now he was told to refer back to those who read the scripture if he is in doubt even though he has never doubted the revelation surah 49:15, surah 2:285.

Now there are 2 possible reason why he was told to refer to the people of the book here.

1) To confirm the story of pharao revealed unto him i.e following the context of the verse.

2) Allah is reffering him to honest Jews and the Christians who the Quran notify as the few honest people of the Book among this corrupt people.

Surah 3:113-114: "Not all of them are alike. Some of the People of the Book are an upright people. They recite the signs (or verses) of God in the night season and they bow down worshipping. They believe in God and the last day. They command what is just, and forbid what is wrong and they hasten in good works, and they are of the righteous .

So definitely the prophet was refered to these^^ set of people that is if he has doubt, and we are already aware that he ever doubted his Lord



There are 2 things involved here too:

1) You made a mistake by assuminhmg the prophet was the one that is to ask the followers of the reminder when actually the verse was directed at those who are movking the prophet in the preceeding verse. Thry were told to ask the Jews and the christians if they know not, I think another traslation will help here. Now if you can take this explanation..

2) ..then refer back to my 2nd explanation up here



No, but rather upright jews and christians who have seen the ttruth after reading the quran:

Surah 5:82-83 You will surely find the most intense of the people in animosity toward the believers [to be] the Jews and those who associate others with Allah; and you will find the nearest of them in affection to the believers those who say,"We are Christians." That is because among them are priests and monks and because they are not arrogant. And when they hear what has been revealed to the Messenger, you see their eyes overflowing with tears because of what they have recognized of the truth. They say, "Our Lord, we have believed, so register us among the witnesses.

The jews and xtians here are not deceitful one who after reading they still don't believe in it, but rather J & C that after reading the Quran they believe no doubt the message is from their Lord.


You are been deceitful here for not quoting the verse as a whole, and this action you have been using it to deceive those who buy you ignorance, infact this verse has buttressed the point i've been raising so far on up there, here is that the vrrse say: Surah Al-Maeda, Verse 13: But on account of their breaking their covenant We cursed them and made their hearts hard; they altered the words from their places and they neglected a portion of what they were reminded of; and you shall always discover treachery in them excepting a few of them; so pardon them and turn away; surely Allah loves those who do good (to others).

The point here is that no matter how deceitful most of the people of the books are, we'll always find few of them that are truthful. And truly most christians on Nairaland are found to be deceitful infact 95%, but their is this person, he has been the only honest christians i have ever come across on this board.

With the above I believe whenevrr you see the Quran referring to xtians and jews as good people, i think you know by now you should know those who are beeb reffered to



Like I said the other day, with the Quran I can differentiate the word of God from the word of man in the bible...same explanations so far applies here.


So far any reading this will agree with me that the J & C reffered here are the honest J & C, who after reading this acknowledges the fact that it came from their Lord:
Surah 3:113-114: "Not all of them are alike. Some of the People of the Book are an upright people. They recite the signs (or verses) of God in the night season and they bow down worshipping. They believe in God and the last day. They command what is just, and forbid what is wrong and they hasten in good works, and they are of the righteous .

Surah 3:199
"And there are, certainly, among the People of the Book, those who believe in God, and that which has been revealed to you, in that which has been revealed to them, bowing in humility to God. They will not sell the signs of God for miserable gain. For them is a reward with their Lord, and God is swift in account."

I believe everybody now know the Jews and christians that are going to heaven with the muslims.




We have to understand here that this verse was inspired during the time of war, the jews connived with the then pagans of mecca to attack muslims despite the muslims making peace treaty with them.
Surah 9: 13:
What! will you not fight a people who broke their oaths and aimed at the expulsion of the Apostle, and they attacked you first; do you fear them? But Allah is most deserving that you should fear Him, if you are believers.

They fought them first despite making the treaty/ oath that they won't attack the then muslims again.
Contrary to your point here that muslims were orrdered to kill Jews and xtians. Hence, the last verse of this surah refute your erroneous claim.



They don't have to believe the earlier jews beacuse most of them are corrupt, even moses foretold about them distorting the book given to them, its right there in the bible.



The context should serve better

The Quran nowhere says that they have the
complete truth.
2: 89 And whenever there came unto them a [new] revelation from God, confirming the truth already in their possession-and [bear in mind that] aforetime they used to pray for victory over those who were bent on denying the truth -: whenever there came unto them something which they recognized [as the truth], they would deny it. And God's rejection is the due of all who deny the truth.

The point here is that they ( honest jews and christians) are aware that their is problem, hence the need to another prophet and scripture arises.

Since the other scripture were sent uncorrupted to the people of the book, even though they were later corrupted, did'nt the Quran confirm the uuncorrupted one?



The explanations givrn so far covers the above too.

all what you wrote is rubbish, you accused the op of adding his own interpretation but your own interpretation is worse, you say Allah is referring to honest Christians and Jews, but the verse say otherwise;
(And if thou art in doubt
concerning that which We reveal unto
thee, then question those who read the
Scripture (that was) before thee. Verily
the Truth from thy Lord hath come
unto thee. So be not thou of the
waverers (Quran 10:94).
And We sent not (as Our messengers)
before thee other than men whom WE
inspired. ASK the followers
the Reminders if ye KNOW NOT (Quran
21:7).

This verse did not say question the honest Christians and Jews but it say ASK THE FOLLOWERS infacte some interpretation say ASK THE PEOPLE OF THE BOOK. Were was Allah when men are changing his word?

Surah 3:113-114: "Not all of them are
alike. Some of the People of the Book
are an upright people. They recite the
signs (or verses) of God in the night
season and they bow down
worshipping.

You don't expect everyone belonging to a religion to abide by the ruled of the religion,Christians don't recite verses ,Christians are not giving rule to worship God, the bible say WORSHIP GOD IN SPIRIT AND TRUTH, that how Christians worship.

The rest of your answer are still saying the same thing, the quran never say some honest Christians and Jews, the quran say PEOPLE OF THE BOOK, this include everybody that is reading the book.

And by the way, what make them honest? If the book can teach them a good moral, what the need of the quran?

If one rejects the doctrine of grace, he
must be able to answer the following
questions from Paul:
Why did Messiah Jesus die? As Paul
said, "I do not nullify the grace of God;
for if righteousness comes through the
Law, then Christ died needlessly." ( Galatians 2:21)

The next question is likewise from Paul.
"This is the only thing I want to find out
from you: did you receive the Spirit by
the works of the Law, or by hearing
with faith?" ( Galatians 3:2)

Paul had a knack for getting to the
point of the gospel. The third question
is also from Paul. "Are you so foolish?
Having begun by the Spirit, are you
now being perfected by the
FLASH?" ( Galatians 3:3)

Many who reject the gospel of grace do
so because they think that they can
please God on the basis of their own
works of the flesh. This amounts to
simple pride, which God abhors.
Included below are some of the things
the Lord has led me to, that all might
accept His grace and trust Him with our
sanctification.However grace is giving to thoes who genuinely repent of there sin.

The problem for us is that we are not
judged merely on the basis of our deeds, but on the basis of our hearts and desires. This is where we all fail. I know, because since becoming a Christian 8 years ago, the Spirit has been convicting me of my wrong motives and attitudes. I know that I am not worthy to stand in the presence of God on my own merit. I need a Savior to redeem me and intercede for my sins, and I need the Holy Spirit to lead and guide me into His righteousness. Many people think that we earn merit
with God by performing good works.
However, the Bible says we are all
unworthy and we will not see heaven on
the basis of our "good" works.

In conclusion, all followers of Jesus
should seek His righteousness. However, if we attempt to do it by our own power and strength, we try to make ourselves equal to God. It is only a reliance on the Holy Spirit that can keep us on a righteous path. A good summary of my main point is from the Psalms:

" Trust in the LORD with all your heart,
And do not lean on your own
understanding. In all your ways
acknowledge Him, And He will make
your paths straight. (Proverbs 3:5-6)

Unbias:
Busier, all is well. Thanks. May God open the eyes of many to receive the truth of the gospel this year.

Amen and amen.

Rilwon:
I have no business with you chief, I only have business with truthman. Your own case is worse for your head is totally impervous to correction...no matter how you are been schooled here you won't take corrections, you don't answer poignant questions, hence, you copy and paste irrelevent post to the thread, thereby making everything boring.

You can continu fanning your suya, okay?

ok, the other thread, you ask for permission later you will reply the op, but it never happened.now you can have all the time you needed at lest even na one points you proved, do it.

truthman2012:
Thank you my brother.

Jesus is winning on this forum. A situation where muslims who claim the bible is corrupt are proved wrong with their very own quran.

Then if the bible is authetic and valid as allah or Muhammad has concurred, what need is there for the quran or islam?

Can God create double standard? It is only reasonable for the muslims to repent and accept the truth

I pray the Muslim know the truth in Jesus name before it too late.

Rilwon:
Lol,

And here comes one of truthman customer who has been buying his ignorance on islam.

Chief Moseur moses, How are ya? how was ya day? Trust ya syd is fine?

my day went well by his grace.

Any attempt on the op? Or you want to keep to your usual tactics, derailed,askin question, ecetra....

Rilwon:
I'm so sorry for the insult

Will you convert to Islam if i refute them all?

funny guy. How many thread have you refuted?

Truthman2012. I love this thread,this is wonderful, Allan and muhammed are the same person, God bless you bro.

LucemFerre:
Hehe... Exodus was talking about UNIVERSAL SIN, but in the book of Ezekiel the Bible was talking about INDIVIDUAL SIN. Seriously?
Lol... Smfh... So, INDIVIDUALS are not part of the universe? Do you even read what you write? I have never come across any comment you made that isn't inconsistent... Your answers are either off or circular

Let me advice you, It's perfectly okay to be wrong or not to know. Being wrong has nothing to do with your level of intelligence. Take everyday as a learning process not a war that you must win. You can't know everything and as a matter of fact, you don't have to. Really, it's an advice, from my heart. I see you battling with everybody and you are terribly and pathetically inequipped. Take example from how you answered my question for goodness sake. (No offence)

"He must be very ignorant for he answers every question he is asked." - Voltaire


Of course he did, I quoted it, remember? But that wasn't even part of the points I was trying to make.

I think the passages you quoted can be understood by looking at what God does in the Bible.

When parents do wrong or experience
punishment on earth, their children
share the ill effects - if a parent is put in
jail, their children are adversely. affected;
if a parent is abusive or negligent, their
children suffer. This sort of thing occurs
in many places in the Bible. For. instance, Achan and his family died as a result of his disobeying God ( Joshua 7). However, while children often shared the earthly punishment of their parents, they would not be punished for their parents' sins in the afterlife. Ezekiel 18 makes it clear that the real guilt belongs to the person who sinned, not their family. Deuteronomy 24:16 is an application of this principle to human-administered justice: while God decreed that some sins merited the death penalty, humans were not to apply the penalty to anyone other than the guilty party. If, as in the case of Achan, a family or nation was to be corporately punished, only God had the authority to decide that corporate punishment was merited.

Weah96:
It's difficult to address anything religious with seriousness or maturity, for that matter. Were you not the person who told me that a virgin once gave birth to a human boy child without coming into contact with human s.emen or any animal s.emen for that matter?

Were you not the person who told me that a man was once dancing on the whole ocean, that a snake can speak a man's native language to him, and that a dead Jewish man raised himself up from the soil after 3 days of laying dead?

Maturity is a relative term. In your head, it means I should pretend to be a f.ool.

I was hoping you will adjust, but I was wrong.
Thanks but no thank from where you learn this moral from.

@all atheists.
Why the noise nah? The intelligent atheists has nothing to say, that why they boycott this thread and allow you guys to rants.

wordcat:
Lazy Christians! Can't u think for once?
Where did I stated that the president will know who I'll vote for?
Why do u lazy Christian like twisting issue like babies?

I understand your coment. I add mine.

Weah96:
So human beings on earth can hide from your own God? Did they dig an underground bunker like Saddam or were they crouching behind an iroko tree?

hey friend, if You want to talk about religion you talk but acts mature,we are all here to learn from each other. Thank you.

LucemFerre:
Statement A.
Exodus 20 : 5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

Statement B.
Ezekiel 18 : 20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

That sir, is a perfect example of contradiction among many other contradictions in the Bible. How do you read the Bible, backwards?

first, read the content of that chapter.
Exedus was talking about the universal sin,while the book of ezekiel was talking about individual sin, infacte ezekiel make it clear that the soul that sinneth it shall die.

wordcat:
Aren't u the one that suppose to tell us the purpose of freewill?

Ok, let me see if I can try......

By February 14th, we will all go out and vote for any candidate of our choice, the Federal Govt of Nigeria will not punish me if I vote Buhari just as I will face no punishment if I vote Jonathan, and I can even decide no to vote at all and no body will punish me for that.

This is a simply definition of free will; the ability to choose without facing any consequences for your choice.

very good wordcat.
Freewill exist?

The president will not interfere in your decision to vote,even when he knows that you will vote against him, God will not intervene in your decision to rebel against him.

Another illustration for freewill is the Lazarus and the rich man, the rich man request to go and warn his brothers for the danger of not worshipping God, but Abraham say to him"let them listen to the prophet". They have the Freewill to accept the prophet word or reject.

johnydon22:
Now do you accept that god doesnt know what you will do before you do it?

wordcat.
What is the purpose of freewill?

Johnny and wordcat.
You have to believe in God to know more about freewill, the parable of the prodigal son illustrate God love and freewill. The "He" in the first verse is Jesus, as He relates the parable of a father and two sons. The father represent God, our Father. The two sons represent two reactions that people have to God and His love. The younger son is the prodigal, who represents the non-believer, while the older son represents the believer who doesn't really realize what God has done for Him. There is a lesson here for all of us.

God allow the son to make a decision I.e freewill.

Johnny and wordcat.

What is the purpose of God creating human? To worship him,love him or reject him and hate him, how can all this happened without a choice? God allow temporary evil to exist for man to worship Him or reject him.
What you guys are implying is partial freewill. Can a computer or robot love it owner?

wordcat:
Freewill and omniscient can't go the same time. One have to make way for the other; It is either u know what I will choose before I make my choice(Omniscient) or u don't know what I will choose(Freewill).

The moment u know what I will choose(Omniscient) and I MUST choose that to make sure that your power of Omnipotency remains then there is no such thing as Freewill.

you are canal minded man, you can't explained the nature of God.

God knows that adam and eve will disobeyed Him, yet he did not interfere in there decision,bible say after they ate the fruit, they started hiding from God.

johnydon22:
Lmao... you already assumed me an atheist... i thought we were having a civil discussion... chai alright am done thanks for your time...

are you not an atheist ?

One of the best thread soo far.