₦airaland Forum

LordReed. the op did not even mentioned boko haram or killing, but you atheists will just rush to attack pastor, any word a pastor say, there must be critics.

one thing I know, religion or no religion, human will still killed themselves as long as there is quest for power. the Soviet union are mostly atheists , yet they killed themselves. man let alone will chose death instead of life.

would there be suffering in this world if everyone followed the teaching of JESUS CHRIST ? "Blessed are the peacemakers ... love your enemies ... bless those who curse you ... turn the other cheek ..."

LordReed:
Well they are the largest so they must be right.

so why are you not a Catholic ?

LordReed:
So why are you not a catholic, they are the largest Christian group.

Catholic is no different from Christianity, it is just a matter of doctrinal issue.

LordReed:
Yes and Islam has 1.8billion followers when are you going to convert to Islam?

and Christianity is the largest.FYI my dad is Muslim convert.

Maximus69:
We're on the same page!

Good to know.

LordReed, HardMirror. I remembered one incident that happened in a village, I forgot the name of this village. my dad went for evangelism in this village ( almost 10 years back ) as he was preaching to the villagers ,house to house, each home he preach and left, two women will enter the house he left and speak bad about my dad and the Gospel, that how the women continuing doing . my dad sleep in the village till the next morning, as he was preparing to leave , many of the villagers came and meet my dad, they want to become Christians.

so in spit of how the women criticized the Gospel. the villagers still accept and converted. THE GOSPEL PREVAILED . so keep it up boys. thank you.

HardMirror:
who is talking about egypt here. You really want us to pretend like we dont know what genocide is? Pls list the tribes god commanded moses to wipe out here. Asking them no show no mercy. How many tribes was that again? You want to wave the genocides committed by you bible heroes. Very funny. What about the crusades and spanish inquisition? And what is funny about my posts? Are they not true. You must be daft to think the serious cases i raised are a joke. You keep insisting it is a joke. What really is funny here? You are supporting genocide on one hand and you say i am a comedian for bringing your attention to 'evils' committed in the name of your god? No need replying you anymore. You guys just aint honest and wld do anything to ridicule truth.

the Canaanite first attack the Israelites in the desert . okay, you know what ? starting from Genesis , explained the story for us, if you are sincere , you will see were this People did abominable things

LordReed:
There is not one single evidence the Israelites were enslaved in Egypt, not one.

lol. but there is evidence that moses committed genocide, right ? there is evidence that David killed those people ? right ?

HardMirror:
and yet you call my post a joke? Was moses an atheist, what about David and all the murderers you celebrate in your holy book? Have you heard anything about the spanish inquisition? The crusades? Sure they were all from atheists right?

isn't I wonderful that little Israel defeated the mighty Egyptian to free themselves from slavery ? what if pharroah allowed the Israel to go, would there be killing ?

from Genesis , God warn the amalakites but they wouldn't listen, from Genesis to first king is about 400 years, is 400 years not enough time for you to repent ?

you should organized a night of thousand laugh, you will make money, you are a great comedian.

AbuTwins:
No fault only a mirage you see. Weep for yourself cos you failed.

this is like a man who want to sleep with a Lady by all means , so he miss used the word "love" just to get her . I repeat , if Muhammad had known the meaning of brother, he wouldn't have associated it with Muslims.

HardMirror:
non sense!!! Give me proof of the SU being an Atheist majority state. Yes the government was on the match to eradicate religion but it never worked. And this had nothing to do with religion because i can give you a long list of religious leaders who were murderers and what you wld call evil. Starting from you dear Moses in the bible to Joshua, to David etc. Hope you know why God was angry with Saul? Cos he was not evil and senseless enough.

Back to the topic. A world without religion is impossible so no need wishing, it was and is an inevitable part of our societal evolution

so the Soviet union are not majority atheists but are able to murder millions of Christians ? it's been long I Read your joke, you are a great writer .

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/belief/2017/oct/26/why-the-soviet-attempt-to-stamp-out-religion-failed

AbuTwins:
All Muslims(Jinns or Humans) are brothers to one another! You still can accept the brotherhood of all Muslims!
Please deal with it. The believers are nothing else than brothers (in Islamic religion). Qur'an 49:10.

if you do not see fault here, then I wept for you.

hahn:
Christianity is a joke

yes, you are correct, people have make it so, go contrary to what the Bible say.

Maximus69:
The WORKS as explained by Paul at Galatians chapter 3 is what most so called believers are trying to discern!
But Paul wasn't talking about works relating to FAITH in Jesus, otherwise he wouldn't have asked Christians to 'work out their salvation'! Philippians 2:12
So what was Paul saying about DEAD WORKS?
He was telling the Galatians that they shouldn't look unto the old covenant laws which the Jews depended upon so much that they kicked against what Jesus taught them! Galatians 3:10
In a nutshell FAITH means
¤Identifying Jesus as the ONLY person who knows how to please his father in whose hand our hope to live forever lies!
¤Concentrating on his teaching and doing all we can to adapt even if that might sound stupid in the ears of people who loves practicing good deeds, but don't think it's necessary to learn that from anybody SINCE WE ALL THINK WE KNOW WHAT IS GOOD!
This two keys are the ONLY saving grace we all need!
Most people thinks if they're buying food for beggars, paying the house rents and school fees of paupers, greeting everybody{including those having grudges against them}, settling disputes, contributing money for religious activities and trying to be good to all their neighbours, they're OK.
Well that is exactly what the young ruler who met Jesus also thought! Matthew 19:16-22, Luke 18:18-23
So why did Jesus said the man CAN'T SEE the kingdom of God?
Well, it is because he doesn't want the lifestyle of going up and down preaching and teaching people what Jesus taught, he feels that's too much task for a wealthy man like him!
Now imagine going to plead/preach at the door of someone that you can feed for life, only for that one to insult, humiliate and ridicule you all because you want him to have everlasting life!
Jesus never meant that the young man throw away all the riches he had but he should now see himself as equal to the most wretched pauper ever so that no matter what those one say or do to him he wouldn't feel it IF HE CONSIDERS HIMSELF AS A POORER PAUPER!
Of course paupers do the damnedest things to one another and they just let it go withing the next minute, but when you consider yourself important or wealthy, it's not going to be easy if someone insults you!
So what Jesus told that man could be applied to both the rich and the poor, because there are lots and lots of poor people whose heart is full of worldly riches{ego} and they too will never agree to steep low to the extent of been insulted just because they want to preach and save someone!
That is the WORK of FAITH, not just doing good like every other worshipers of idols would EASILY do!

If I were to die today and stand before God
and He should ask me, “Why should I allow you
to enter My holy heaven?” what would my answer be? If my answer in any way points to MYSELF (my own credentials, my own works, my own religious deeds, etc.) then I am not standing on solid ground.

The appropriate response is this: “l will enter God’s holy heaven for one reason and one reason only. It is only because of Jesus Christ my Saviour. Apart from His work on the cross I could never be saved. Apart from His life which He has given to me as a free gift, I could never enter His holy heaven.He is my only hope. He is the only righteousness I have and He is all the righteousness I need. Thank You Lord for saving my soul and making me whole.” .

Notice how this answer points away from SELF
and clearly points to the Saviour and to Him alone!

2 Timothy 1:9 “Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, NOT ACCORDING TO OUR WORKS.”

AbuTwins:
It is their nature to frequent the privies(toilet) no one said privacy! Learn before you type. You are bringing yourself down mentally & socially and never will you be able to bring down an atom from Islam.




Anyways, just as we have Muslims and non-muslim humans we have Muslim and non-muslim Jinns! The Prophet interceded for the Muslim Jinns in those hadith!

May Allah guide you.

if Muhammad had known the meaning of BROTHER , he wouldn't have associate jin as brothers to Muslims .

OvaSabi1:
Ah... I just visited your profile and established that your major occupation here is to be trolling non Christian nairalanders . Abeg disregard my initial question. And I will not reply to any other mentions.

lol. I only ask questions. I promise, I will not be hard on you.

OvaSabi1:
I didn't get what you wrote. What is your point exactly?

the teachings is sooo canal, the jinn complained that the Muslims visit the toilet more frequently and they need privacy, you know what puzzling here ? jinn are spirits and invincible , do they really need the privacy ? They wanted Muhammad to
stop the Muslims from ruining their appetite.and also Muhammad reveal that some jinn are the brothers of Muslims. don't you think this teaching is crazy ? hun

NPComplete:
Look at this môron calling his uncle an illiterate. Are the people in the video not fellow idiots like u?
So because u don't agree with this stupid claim they make but agree with all other stupid claims, we should set u apart as some sort of paragon of Christianity and not just another mindless adherent of a religion filled with nincompoops? Lol.

Christian morons making fun of other Christian morons lol.

Fuckery upon fuckery, saith the preacher; all is fuckery.

some atheists believe in the supernatural while others don't . ask dalaman and Frank. would you call them atheists ? . same thing the woman is a joke.

OvaSabi1:
Yesss. But they are not as "fun" as portrayed in Aladdin. Infact, human beings are not supposed to mix with them nor ask them for assistance. Jinns are other creatures of Allah just like angels and human beings. They can see us but a normal human eye is not supposed to see them. Satan was a jinn and not an angel according to our own holy books. Those fortune teller mallams and some false prophets use jinns. They also called demons and can possess a person.
Everyone has a jinn attached to them. In some cases where you have heard the stories of a dead person appearing somewhere else, it is their jinn (who is still alive) who is playing tricks on the human eye. They are adept at shape shifting and can mimic the characteristics of their host. If you want to understand that last part I wrote, Watch this Yoruba movie called "Somewhere in the dark" starring Gabriel Afolayan.

Sunan Abu Dawud, Book 1, Number 0006:
Narrated Zayd ibn Arqam: The
Apostle of Allah (pbuh) said:
These privies are frequented by
the jinns and devils . So when
anyone amongst you goes there,
he should say: “I seek refuge in
Allah from the male and female
devils.”.


What is puzzling is that since Jinns and Devils are
invisible, do they really need the privacy? canal religion.


Sunan Abu-Dawud, Book 1, Hadith 0039:
Narrated by Abdullah ibn Mas’ud:
A deputation of the jinn came to
the Prophet (peace be upon him)
and said: O Muhammad, forbid
your community to clean
themselves with a bone or dung
or charcoal, for in them Allah
has provided sustenance for us .
So the Prophet (peace be upon
him) forbade them to do so.

A delegation of Jinns entreated Muhammad to prohibit his followers from using “bone or dung or charcoal” to cleanse themselves after answering the call of nature. Why? It is because Allah has apportioned the bones, dung and charcoal as sustenance for the Jinns.Muhammad listen to there plea;

Tirmidhi, Hadith Number 350:
Allah’s Messenger said: Do not
cleanse yourself with dung or
with bones for that is the food of
your BROTHERS from amongst the
Jinn.

Besides forbidding the Muslims from using dung or bones , Muhammad also revealed that some Jinns are the BROTHERS of the Muslims. Muslims and Jinns are kindred! This explains the carnage we are
experiencing worldwide. VERY CANAL RELIGION.

LordReed:
None of which sets up atheism as a religion.

OK

LordReed:
So having no god or gods, no worship, no devotion or rituals, nothing that is considered a religion is in fact also a religion. Wonderful. Your logic is amazing. LoL

do you know that the oldest form of Buddhism does not believed in the divine, only the afterlife .

there are some group such as the boys scout, Freemason etc. members are ask of there position of the Devin and afterlife without commiting to any religion. atheists will perfectly fit in here.

Barristter07:
Arche is no longer beginning right ?



" FROM him " , Provide a scripture that says this !!

Or else your source argument is going straight to the dustbin.

Provide your evidence that all things CAME FROM him

if I say were is the beginning of the river Niger ? were is the source ? were did it came from ? all of God's creation (with the exception of Jesus Christ) came through Jesus Christ. John 1:3 - Through him all things were made;

Barristter07:
Kindly Explain Revelation 3:14 . Is Jesus the beginning of Gods creation ?

do you know that the greak word found in Revelation 3:14 beginning is
" arche" and is related to the greak word found in Hebrews 12:2 is "archegos" meaning AUTHOR or LEADER. this is in harmony with John 1:3 which say THROUGH HIM all things were MADE;

meaning Christ Is the BEGINNER. He is the source
of it all. All of Creation came from Him (Col.1:16). He is the beginning of God's creation. He began it all. He started it all. All of God's creation owes its origin to Jesus Christ.

LordReed:
This is like saying zero is analogous to 10. How is the absence of a thing analogous to its presence?

Atheist just means absence of a belief in a god(s). Where does a faith analog now come into it?

like I said, anything that has a POSITION about God and afterlife can be view as religion. as long as it proposed a reason to reject or accept belief, we can view it as a religion.

Jozzy4:
So how is this different from what I told you ?

there is big different. in that he demonstrated his power over the grave. He was even instrumental in effecting his own resurrection (Jn. 2:19). this can be only done by God.

LordReed:
It only has something to say about god because the question is put to us. You do not ask mathematics if it believes in god, you ask human beings and when they say they do not how does that translate to having a belief?

the question you will ask a sport man, you will not ask an atheist.

are you a Christian ? no, I am an atheist, are you a Hindu ? no, I am a Christian. are you a Muslim ? no, I am a Buddhist . are you a Buddhist ? no, I am an atheist. This suggests that being an atheist is
analogous to being a Christian, a Jew, a Buddhist, a Muslim, or a Hindu.

budaatum:
You only need to read the very first paragraph to understand that I have not said your work saves you, mavisguy.

"The acceptance of this free gift, believing, so to say, despite being ignorant about it, is indeed how one is saved aleluya amen,....."

Nor did I say "boast about your work":

"the work I have listed above, is not to be done where you are to be seen doing it least you be justified by your fellow humans and your head puff up or you be disturbed and asked to go and play instead."

What I did say was "work to understand" and yet, "by the Grace of God that Jesus Christ has sent you the Holy Ghost and Comforter to minister to you", otherwise, "all your work trying to understand is work in vain!"

If you cannot bother to do the work to understand this very simple short piece as shown by your misunderstanding and misrepresentation of it mavisguy, how, please, can you possibly understand the very complex writing of James, is precisely my point!

I perfectly understand now, am sorry . thanks for the enlightenment.

budaatum:
Your understanding, is what I think might be faulty, I would please have you consider.

Who, exactly, do you intend to "show" that you are saved?

NONE. I Will NOT work my soul to be save because my saviour has ALREADY WORK IT.

I will work like a slave for the love of my saviour.

I do not boast of my work. I boast of God work.

thank you, I am busy now, see you later.

budaatum your understanding of work is faulty. How can I show that I am saved? ONLY BY WORKS (James 2:14-26).

now, what is work in this context ? is it the kind of work you describe in your post ?

I am only showing the EVIDENCE OF A SAVING FAITH .

LordReed:
Can you rephrase? I don't understand this.

okay. religion is something that has a POSITION on a divine being or afterlife.

Art, mathematics, sport. etc are not religious because it has NOTHING to do with God .

Atheism HAS something to do with God and afterlife and it stand on that is it doesn't exist.

I want you to know that there is big different between atheism and non-religion .

Emusan:
Smile...
Long time sir!

my mentor . am good , love your response to this jw brothers

aril:
Mention one verse in the Quran that you claim almost all Muslims doesn't believe. Your understanding abt Islam is seriously weak.

With regaeds to the hadith you quoted see the thorough explanation below and when nxt you read something beyond your imagination, ask question or ask those who can explain better. Luckily we have 24/7 active Islamic sites you can seek thorough understanding.

Just like the way you were lost when you read that hadith while you gave a false reference from the Quran. I am hereby given you this to purify yourself.


Question - 176375
It is narrated by Abu Dawood in as-Sunan (3991) that Abu Dharr (may Allah be pleased with him) said: I was with the Messenger of Allah (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him), riding a donkey, and the sun was setting. He said: “Do you know where this (sun) goes?” I said: Allah and His Messenger know best. He said: “It sets in a spring of warm water (innaha taghrubu fi ‘aynin hami’ah).” Is this hadeeth saheeh? If it is, then what does it mean? I have heard some non-Muslims using this to stir up doubts about Islam and cast aspersions on it.


https://www.google.com/amp/s/islamqa.info/amp/en/answers/176375

Answer
Praise be to Allah.
Firstly:

The hadeeth of Abu Dharr (may Allah be pleased with him) which describes the place where the sun goes was narrated via Ibraaheem ibn Yazeed at-Taymi, from his father, from Abu Dharr, from the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him.

It was narrated from Ibraaheem at-Taymi by al-Hakam ibn ‘Utaybah, al-A‘mash, Fudayl ibn Ghazwaan, Haroon ibn Sa‘d, and Moosa ibn al-Musayyab, as was stated by Ibn Mandah in al-Eemaan (2/926)

They narrated it via two isnaads:

The first isnaad:

It was narrated by al-A‘mash, Yoonus ibn ‘Ubayd, Moosa ibn al-Musayyab and Haroon ibn Sa‘d. In this report it says that the sun goes and prostrates beneath the Throne or before its Lord; there is no mention of a spring of warm water. It appears in several versions, of which we will mention one here:

It was narrated that Abu Dharr (may Allah be pleased with him) said: The Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) said to Abu Dharr when the sun set: “Do you know where it goes?” I said: Allah and His Messenger know best. He said: “It goes and prostrates beneath the Throne, then it asks for permission (to rise) and permission is given to it. Soon it will prostrate, but it will not be accepted from it, and it will ask for permission (to rise) but permission will not be given to it; it will be said to it: “Go back to where you came from.’ So it will rise from its place of setting, and that is what Allah, may He be glorified, refers to in the verse (interpretation of the meaning): “And the sun runs on its fixed course for a term (appointed). That is the Decree of the All-Mighty, the All-Knowing” [Yaa-Seen 36:38].

It was narrated via A‘mash by al-Bukhaari in his Saheeh (no. 3199, 4802 and 7424); Muslim in his Saheeh (no. 159); Abu Dawood at-Tayaalisi in al-Musnad (1/368); Ahmad in al-Musnad (35/282, 429); at-Tirmidhi in as-Sunan (no. 2186, 3227 – he said: It is hasan saheeh; an-Nasaa’i in as-Sunan al-Kubra (10/229); at-Tabari in Jaami‘ al-Bayaan, 20/516); al-Bazzaar in al-Bahr al-Zukhaar (9/409); Abu ‘Awaanah in al-Mustakhraj (1/100-101); at-Tahhaawi in Sharh Mushkil al-Athaar (1/254); Ibn Hibbaan in his Saheeh (14/24); al-Qutay‘i in Juz’ al-Alf Dinar (p. 183); Abu Nu‘aym in al-Musnad al-Mustakhraj ‘ala Saheeh Muslim (1/222); al-Baghawi in at-Tafseer (4/14); Abu ash-Shaykh in al-‘Azamah (4/1192); Ibn Mandah in al-Eemaan (2/924) and at-Tawheed (1/134, 135); Ibn Bashraan in al-Amaali (p. 159); al-Bayhaqi in al-Asma wa as-Sifaat (2/273); Ibn ‘Asaakir in al-Mu‘jam (2/1015); Abu Nu‘aym in Hilyat al-Awliya’ (4/216) and others.

It was narrated via Yoonus ibn ‘Ubayd by Imam Muslim in his Saheeh (no. 159); an-Nasaa’i in as-Sunan al-Kubra (10/96); at-Tabari in Jaami‘ al-Bayaan (12/249); Abu ‘Awaanah in al-Mustakhraj (1/100); Abu al-‘Abbaas as-Siraaj in Hadeeth as-Siraaj (3/258); Ibn Hibbaan in his Saheeh (14/21); Abu ash-Shaykh in al-‘Azamah (4/1189); Ibn Mandah in al-Eemaan (2/925, 926) and in at-Tawheed (1/136); Abu Nu‘aym in al-Mustakhraj (1/221).

It was narrated via Moosa ibn al-Musayyab by: Abu ash-Shaykh al-Asbahaani in al-‘Azamah (4/1188);

And via Haroon ibn Sa‘d by at-Tabaraani in al-Mu‘jam al-Kabeer (4/373); Abu ash-Shaykh al-Asbahaani in al-‘Azamah (4/1190).

Abu Nu‘aym (may Allah have mercy on him) said:

This is a saheeh hadeeth on which they (the hadeeth scholars) are agreed, from the hadeeth of al-A‘mash from Sufyaan ath-Thawri and others. It was narrated from at-Taymi al-Hakam ibn ‘Utaybah, Fudayl ibn ‘Umayr, Haaroon ibn Sa‘d, Moosa ibn al-Musayyab, Habeeb ibn Abi al-Ashras, and from Yoonus ibn ‘Umayd among the Basris.

End quote from Hilyat al-Awliya’ (4/216)

The second isnaad:

It was narrated by al-Hakam ibn ‘Utaybah only, from Ibraaheem at-Taymi; in this report it says that the sun sets in a spring of warm water.

It was narrated that Abu Dharr said: I was riding behind the Messenger of Allah (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) when he was on a donkey and the sun was setting. He said: “Do you know where this (sun) sets?” I said: Allah and His Messenger know best. He said: “It sets in a spring of warm water (innaha taghrubu fi ‘aynin haamiyah).”

Narrated by Ahmad in al-Musnad (35/363); Abu Dawood in as-Sunan (no. 4002); Hafs ad-Doori in Juz’ Qiraa’aat an-Nabi sall Allahu ‘alayhi wa sallam (p. 123); al-Bazzaar in al-Bahr al-Zakhaar (9/407); as-Siraaj in his Hadeeth (3/258); al-Haakim in al-Mustadrak (2/267) – he said: This is a hadeeth with a saheeh isnaad, although they (al-Bukhaari and Muslim) did not narrate it. All of them narrated it via Yazeed ibn Haaroon, from Sufyaan ibn Husayn, from al-Hakam.

Al-Bazzaar said: We do not know that anyone narrated it from al-Hakam ibn ‘Utaybah, from Ibraaheem, from his father, from Abu Dharr except Sufyaan ibn Husayn. Yoonus ibn ‘Ubayd narrated it from Ibraaheem at-Taymi, Sulayman al-A‘mash and Haroon ibn Sa‘d. End quote.

Secondly:

From the above it is clear that the version of the hadeeth of Abu Dharr which is most likely to be correct is the first one, in which it says: “It goes and prostrates beneath the Throne”, in which it makes no mention of it setting “in a spring of warm water (innaha taghrubu fi ‘aynin haamiyah).” This is based on several factors:

~1~

This wording is that on which the majority of narrators and those with the best memories agreed upon, in the report from Ibraaheem at-Taymi.

~2~

The second version (“in a spring of warm water”) was narrated only by al-Hakam ibn ‘Utaybah from Ibraahem, and al-Hakam – although he was trustworthy – was described by an-Nasaa’i as mudallis [i.e., he used vague wording to give a wrong impression] in Dhikr al-Mudalliseen (no. 11). Ibn Hibbaan said: He used to engage in tadlees. End quote from ath-Thiqaat (4/144). None of those who narrated his hadeeth said that he clearly stated that he heard it from the previous narrator; rather they all said that his report included the word ‘an (from – instead of ‘I heard’, etc). Ibn Hajar mentioned him in Maraatib al-Mudalliseen in the second rank of mudalliseen (p. 30), who are the ones whose tadlees the imams (leading scholars) tolerated and from whom they narrated reports that they regarded as sound, because of their prominence and because they rarely engaged in tadlees compared to others, such as ath-Thawri; or (it was tolerated) because they did not use engage in tadlees except when narrating from a trustworthy source, such as Ibn ‘Uyaynah. The fact that this report is contrary to the report narrated by the trustworthy narrators confirms the possibility that tadlees occurred in this hadeeth in particular.

~3~

The first version was narrated by both al-Bukhaari and Muslim, whereas the second version was not narrated by these two shaykhs. That is because they thought the first version was more likely to be correct than any other. Undoubtedly the reports in the books of al-Bukhaari and Muslim take precedence, according to the critics and scholars, than those in other books and Musnads.

~4~

There is a great difference between the two versions. The first one describes the sun as prostrating beneath the Throne, whether at the time of sunset or at any other time, according to different versions of the hadeeth. Prostration beneath the Throne is a matter of the unseen, and no one knows how it is except Allah, may He be glorified and exalted. He, may He be glorified and exalted, has told us that all created things prostrate to Him, as He says (interpretation of the meaning):

“See you not that to Allah prostrates whoever is in the heavens and whoever is on the earth, and the sun, and the moon, and the stars, and the mountains, and the trees, and Ad-Dawab (moving living creatures, beasts, etc.), and many of mankind? But there are many (men) on whom the punishment is justified”

[al-Hajj 22:18].

No one knows how this prostration is or when it happens or its real nature except Allah, may He be glorified and exalted. Similarly, the hadeeth of Abu Dharr is no different from this verse at all, and there is nothing objectionable in it.

Al-Khattaabi (may Allah have mercy on him) said:

It cannot be denied that it halts beneath the Throne, in a manner that we cannot see or comprehend; rather this is speaking about a matter of the unseen. So we should not disbelieve in it or ask how it happens, because our knowledge cannot comprehend it.

End quote from A‘laam al-Hadeeth Sharh Saheeh al-Bukhaari (p. 1893)

With regard to the second version, “It sets in a spring of warm water”, this is problematic, because the setting of the sun occurs when its disc disappears below the horizon, and it sets on some people and rises on others because of the movement of the earth around it. So it is not possible that the sun, which is of immense size, could disappear into a spring of warm water. With regard to the words of Allah, may He be exalted, in the story of Dhu’l-Qarnayn (interpretation of the meaning): “Until, when he reached the setting place of the sun, he found it setting in a spring of black muddy (or hot) water” [al-Kahf 18:86], the commentators said that what is meant is to depict the scene that appeared before him, for he saw it on the horizon of the sea, as if it were sinking into it at the time of setting. The Holy Qur’an does not tell us that this was something that happnened in a real sense; hence Allah, may He be glorified, said “he found it setting” and He did not say “it was setting in a spring of black muddy (or hot) water.”

Al-Haafiz Ibn Katheer (may Allah have mercy on him) said:

That is, he way he saw the sun was as if it was setting in the ocean, which is something that happens to everyone who stands on the shore: he sees the sun as if it is setting into the sea, when in fact it does not leave the celestial path on which it is firmly established.

End quote from Tafseer al-Qur’an al-Kareem (5/191)

To sum up: whoever casts aspersions on the Sunnah because of this wording is ignorant of the precision of the hadeeth scholars in examining different versions of the hadeeth and distinguishing between the reports which are proven and those which are not proven. The fact that some scholars regarded this report as saheeh is problematic; rather what they intended was to class as saheeh the basis of the hadeeth, not to suggest that this version is more correct than that which is proven in as-Saheehayn: “It goes and prostrates beneath the Throne.”

In order to refute this specious argument, it is sufficient to note that the scholars of Islam were unanimously agreed that the earth is round and that all the celestial bodies are also round. It is on that basis that night and day alternate, because of the movements and rotation of these heavenly bodies. This is clear from many texts of the Qur’an and Sunnah.

Ibn Taymiyah (may Allah have mercy on him) said:

The heavenly bodies are round, according to the Muslim scholars among the Sahaabah and those who followed them in guidance; that was also proven from them with isnaads mentioned in the appropriate places. In fact, more than one of the Muslim scholars narrated that there was consensus among the Muslims on that point.

End quote from Minhaaj as-Sunnah an-Nabawiyyah (5/442)

The Muslims were ahead of others in knowledge of astronomy; if the apparent meaning of this hadeeth contradicts that, then there would not have been consensus on the contrary; but the correct view is that the hadeeth does not contradict the scientific, astronomical facts.

And Allah knows best.

just one question and you filled the thread with long epistles