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IslamRe: How Blind Are Those Who Called Islam "man Made Religion" by mavenbox: 12:41am On Dec 06, 2009
@No2Atheism: Now I wish I never mentioned that Wiki article to Abuzola, ever since I did on one of my first posts on NL, he has clung tenaciously to it. LOL.

Now, let me explain where Abuzola has missed the whole point. There can be two people called Barack Obama, but both of them are not the U.S. president. On the other hand, the fact that my name is Maven Box, child of Professor and Mrs Big Box, does not mean I am a sibling of Black Box, child of Mr and Dr. Mrs. Cardboard Box. Because we have the surname does not mean we are siblings!

What I am saying is that the Arabic Christians refer to my God as Allah because that is the HUMAN WORD, translated in Arabic, for God. It does not mean that Allah is the same as allah the moon god.

undecided
Forum GamesRe: The Game Start With The Last Word Prt 3 by mavenbox: 12:31am On Dec 06, 2009
Wrote is a funny word to start a sentence with - but I am making an attempt - while trying to explain to Oyato that there are two words called Guy in English; one is a kind of stout rope, and the other is the common reference to a young man. wink
Christianity EtcRe: The Christian Trial & Debate by mavenbox: 12:29am On Dec 06, 2009
grin grin grin cheesy cheesy cheesy Krayola you know I said you were a comedian? THAT part of my opinion has not changed!!! Sorry I'm unavailable.
Christianity EtcRe: Who Killed More People In The Bible? by mavenbox: 12:24am On Dec 06, 2009
@everyone: And talking about death, the first time that word shows up in the Bible, God said "The day you eat of this fruit, you will surely die". He didnt say he would kill them. He said they would die. To DIE means to be separated from God. The physical expiration will come surely after that, sooner or later. Even Christ did not physically die until he was separated from God when he bore our sins on the cross, because it is impossible to be connected to God and die! It's like touching a high-tension cable with a conductor and you say current will not flow? Man's spirit is like a conductor of electricity, and when it is connected to the LIFE of God made available through Christ, power flows and death is removed. But Adam missed it, he was separated from God and he started dying. Nothing has changed today. When one is separated from God, they die. God does not kill them. Of course, there is the natural expiration, but here I believe we are concentrating on induced forms of death by a supernatural being.
Christianity EtcRe: Who Killed More People In The Bible? by mavenbox: 12:17am On Dec 06, 2009
@ogaga: Sorry to burst your bubble, but only satanists have suicidal intents like hitting their heads on a rock. And I do not beg for forgiveness, it was done already roughly 2000 years ago. I respect God, and I respect the men and women that respect God. The others, like you and lucifer your boss, I have utter disrespect for you. Don't get mad, ok? I'm just telling you as it is.
LiteratureRe: Living Lovely (Flash Fiction, a Novella) by mavenbox(op): 12:00am On Dec 06, 2009
Okay, I know it's very long but I hope you have the patience to read through it all!

I made up the whole fuzzy id and Liebermansch hypothesis, there is no such thing in existence. And that's why I had to spend so much time explaining my idea.

I am not sure if this story will stay put here, or will be the first part of a series. Your comments may just help me make a choice!

Cheers.
LiteratureLiving Lovely (Flash Fiction, a Novella) by mavenbox(op): 11:55pm On Dec 05, 2009
Lizzy was at the bus stop, on a queue in the hot sun. Once again, she remembered what Deolu did to her and she was on fire, livid with anger. As usual as her anger, she could hardly see and her head was aching. She knew that if she didn’t get away from that place immediately, she’d kill someone or damage something.

Chinedu.

A picture of him flashed through her mind. After their hot argument last year, how he fell headlong into the well, with a little help from the strength of her own arms. She could still recall his wail as he fell. And how he became silent. Recalling this, her own heart suddenly became silent too.

You killed him”, she heard her own voice say. She looked back in fear, the voice was so audible. Turning round again, her eyes met the cold eyes of the guy who appeared in her front. He could read her mind. Everything. And he was still wearing that same red T-shirt and brown jean trousers he wore last year. Chinedu was ready to tell everyone of her guilt. Then fear took over her mind. She had to run away again. Somewhere. No one had to know.

See this girl o!” screamed a mechanic in black overalls as he dove and yanked her off the road in the nick of time. She had narrowly missed being crushed by the jagged KAI (Kick Against Indiscipline) vehicle as it arrived out of the blues, swerving like the road maniac. Their mission was to arrest traders on the highway, a practise banned by the state government. The traders were usually wary of them, but a new KAI “second-wave” strategy had been developed: a vehicle would cause the usual disturbance and after everyone had scuttled and were settling back in, another vehicle would suddenly appear and take advantageous control of the unstable position.

In the pandemonium as traders fled with as many goods as they could hoist, she bit the stranger hard in the shoulder and tore off as he yelped and cursed, twisting in agony.

She ran across the road and flagged down a taxi. It was a posh taxi, the windows were wound and the insides were well air-conditioned. As she leaped into the taxi and jammed the door, she looked across the road and saw that Chinedu - or his apparition - was no longer there. Sighing in relief, she caught her breath and suddenly realized that the taxi driver never asked for her destination. She looked at the driver in the rear-view mirror. He was still wearing the same faded red shirt and brown jean trousers, but now he had dark sunglasses.

As she screamed at the top of her voice, she heard him say “We need to talk. We’ll go somewhere really quiet,

Then he pulled on a nose-mask and tossed an exhaling canister in the backseat. Spluttering and covering her nose as she tried to talk, Lizzy inhaled the fumes and passed out.

When she recovered from her fainting spell, she was seated in a very large deep blue couch with feather cushions. For a bachelor, this guy surely had some taste. Some few feet away, Chinedu, in his faded red T-shirt and dirty brown jeans, was sitting on a wooden chair, right beside a table that was rather untidy – but not untidy enough to reveal the fact that if she tried anything funny he could reach for the abandoned knife, the screwdriver, an odd-looking stick that could pass for a club, and whatever else was concealed on the table in the midst of heavy books and remnants of a bachelor’s breakfast. On the other hand, her own soft seat made it impossible to spring into action, she would just be much too clumsy.

As she took in the environment, she averted his eyes. Until, having decided that there was no better option, she looked at him. He was staring at her, as solemn as he always used to whenever he was about to assume the wussie mode and declare his undying love for her. But only the living ones love, Lizzy concluded.

Chinedu was sipping some strawberry juice from a tall glass tumbler, and his lips, tongue and teeth were blood-red, as if his mere post-mortem existence was not grotesque enough. That was when she noticed the neatly-folded straight-jacket and the tranquilizer set on the rug right beside him. He was too intelligent and street-smart for his own good.

“I need to use the silent room”, she said, smiling away to conceal her furiously thumping heart. With a wave of his left hand, Chinedu indicated that the lavatory was right behind her. She grunted thanks and walked slowly to the commode, her mind running in circles as she schemed.

After finding out that there was no window in the room, all the fittings were made of fine glass and uninterrupted ceramics, the door was a solid wooden piece and no metal piece was in sight, she dug her hands in her hair. Of course, her hairpin was missing too. She couldn’t commit suicide, let alone defend herself. So she flushed the can, washed her hands, braced herself for the worst; and looked in the mirror. Then she noticed that her own mouth was also stained with the same red color. She did not know for sure if she had been drugged. She swore in an Igbo dialect and accent and returned to the lounge.

“I am certain that you have many questions. I am ready to begin answering them”, declared her captor.

“Where am I?”, she asked, looking around.

“Brilliant. That is a question you ought to have asked roughly a year ago, shortly after the time you killed me.”, he replied in his usual condescending and didactic manner; one of the very things that had annoyed Lizzy and made her push him down the well that day.

He stopped for effect before continuing his lecture and sipped from the glass with an affected drool, then displayed his blood-red teeth as he nodded and advertised, saying “This is very good stuff”. He belched.

“You are in a complex tangle right now. The human nature is rather complicated, actually. For instance, in psychoanalysis, there are defined theories about the human id. It is the sum of the primitive instincts and energies underlying all the psychic activity of a human being. A certain Liebermansch hypothesis states that this id is not made of random instincts as we often believe, but rather it draws from a bank of experiences of a fuzzy id that is linked to the particular human being. This is why many have believed in reincarnation (as false as it is), and it also accounts for the common déjà vu in which one thinks their present situation has occurred before. Oh, yes it has.”

As it happened once in a while, Chinedu was talking over her head, and Lizzy looked more confused. But she was also very intelligent, and that was one of the things that had brought them together years ago. So he explained further in order to let her apprehend the meaning.

“Our each and every action, inaction, choice and decision generates a new path for our lives every moment. Within an hour, for example, in one person, millions of such paths are generated but only one is attained by the prime id, which is the id of the person on the particular path we are focusing on. For each of the other paths, a fuzzy id of the person progresses along the path, generating more fuzzy ids as it continues. The fuzzy id is like a surrogate , it carries the alternatives to the prime id’s selection and continues with it, acquiring knowledge and accumulating energy until a critical point is reached. This so-called critical point is a place where one or more paths intersect.”

“What this means is that at these critical points, one may willingly or mistakenly derail from a path and enter another path. Of course, the knowledge acquired and the energy accumulated will not balance out across all the paths, but the variation will afford similar opportunities. And then the human being ignorantly declares déjà vu or reincarnation, thinking an abstruse thing has occurred. But it’s not so, one or more of their fuzzy ids has gone through the experience before and at that time the prime id is exchanging information with each fuzzy id.”

“So is this a kind of alternate future then, in which you are not dead?” asked Lizzy.

“I was just coming to that part, Elizabeth. There is a strong link between human emotion, conscience and rational logic. As a result, over time, each particular fuzzy id has specialized in a particular emotion, is as objective as its gradually developed conscience, and as such makes decisions based on the attendant logic. At the critical points, the human being makes a choice and the newly elected prime id forces all the fuzzy ids into relegation for the moment. In rare cases, a chance of one in five billion, a renegade fuzzy id refuses to be forced into the background, and it usurps the prime id. Then the human being appears to be a one-track identity with a particular strong unquenchable emotion, the emotion’s associated conscience, and all the rational logic the conscience requires to operate.”

“In your case, Lizzy, your rage took over when we were at the well. You decided not to push me over into the well, but you have a fuzzy id that had grown very strong from murderous and evil thoughts that you had wallowed in since childhood without carrying them out. Your RAGE fuzzy id was stronger than your prime id, so after you made the choice, the fuzzy id derailed the path and usurped the prime id. If you think back, you will see that from that point, you have never been able to control your anger any longer. Think about all your victims…”

Lizzy could remember. She had killed her neighbours, poisoned the whole family, by injecting a colourless hysoscyamine in the toothpaste tube when she visited their bathroom - and all because she hated the heavy-metal rock music they indulged in every evening. Most of the others were men. Twice, late in the night, she had snapped some taxi drivers’ neck from the backseat, killing them because she felt they were chauvinists and she was being cheated on the cab fare. She had killed a former colleague by applying a poisonous powder to a book she borrowed from him, because he pinched her bum, denied it and refused to apologize – the same fingers killed him, for he was known to lick his fingers before turning any book’s pages.

Then there was the Satyr, the ugly old man plaguing her with his many intimate innuendos: he relentlessly wanted a bit of the action so she visited him and simply suffocated him with his heavy pillow. She got some scratches, but fortunately the Nigerian Police were too short-sighted to make proper enquiries concerning the flesh under the dead man’s fingernails. And the annoying young man she drowned at the beach for staring too hard, being too cocky and over-assuming – he couldn’t even really swim and while he was trying to prove a point, she mistakenly tipped him over the edge into the deep end and screamed for help from the distant lifeguard. And there were so many others after them, she had lost count.

The last attempt was that morning, when Deolu, her new 2-day old boyfriend, laughed in her face. He had refused to sign the huge cheque as she demanded, so in her rage she held his own silenced pistol to his head and threatened to blast his head off - only for him to laugh and tell her that he had suspected her from the start, so he had emptied the gun’s barrel the night she arrived. She had fled the place, scheming how to get back at him when she saw Chinedu again, for the hundredth time at least in less than a week.

Chinedu.

He was sipping a strawberry drink. There was no way in hell he could be dead, she thought.

“So why do I keep seeing you everywhere if you are not dead?” Lizzy asked.

“Simple. Your rebellious enraged fuzzy id is trying to add credence to the fact that you killed me and I am now a ghost haunting you. When that fact is embedded fully in your subconscious, your prime id will be fully erased. But my murder by you is not true, in the true nature of truth because it happened in another variation, another version of life. This person that I am speaking to, i.e. yourself, is not the real Lizzy. Your experience has been affected by the enraged id. The real Lizzy is lost somewhere out there, and I am here to help you reconnect at the next critical point, which should be in a matter of some minutes. We can force a critical point by staging something that involves important decisions for you to make, Elizabeth.”

“How do you intend to do this, and what if I refuse?”, queried Lizzy.

“You will close your eyes, I will describe a serene scenery on an Island and you will make decisions about the things you observe and experience on the island. It is a very painless process. It will be better if you do not refuse, because I want the best for you, even though in your mind you attempted to kill me last year, but I have forgiven you!”

“You know I love you Chinedu, and I would never have harmed you. Only one thing is still confusing to me. How did you know all of this? Are you not a skilled accountant? How is it that you have a straight-jacket and tranquilizer set and you know so much about psychoanalysis?”

Chinedu laughed a long and hearty laughter. “Do you not truly understand that simple point? Just like this is a fuzzy id of yours sitting before me, this is also a fuzzy id of mine that I learnt from at the same critical point where your rogue id usurped the prime id beside the well. This very fuzzy id of mine never studied Accountancy, but is a doctor with summa c:um laude distinctions in psychiatry! Your rogue id caused it, but even I would gladly return to Accountancy!”

Once again, she looked at the straight-jacket and the tranquilizer set on the floor beside Chinedu. Then she saw that the room had only one exit asides the dead-end lavatory behind her, and that exit was far from her own end. The other window was overlooking a large water body, and it was beside Chinedu’s table. There was simply no escape route. She shrugged and sighed.

She indicated that she was disturbingly pressed and once again she went to the lavatory. After many minutes of an intermittent retching sound as she vomited, she flushed the can and returned. She looked sober and dejected.

“Okay, I’m game. You may continue. Let’s do this and get it over with”, she said.

With joy in his twinkling eyes, Chinedu excused himself and stepped out of the room through the exit.

“How did it go?” queried Chinedu as he, Lizzy’s parents and the make-up artist rose to see Dr. Okafor, the renown psychiatrist.

“She bought the whole theory; hook line and sinker, and I have somewhat explained to her that inasmuch as she didn’t kill me, or rather, Chinedu, she had other victims. She’s a tough one, and my methods have not been so procedural, but I know that in some hours she will be very much better. And in some few days at this rate, Elizabeth will be back in your loving arms.”

Elizabeth, daughter of a wealthy and influential Nigerian businessman, had snapped in her mind – she developed a mental illness while arguing with Chinedu, her boyfriend, beside the well in Chinedu’s compound roughly a year earlier.

Right after she lost it, she was so certain that she had killed Chinedu by pushing him down the well. Chinedu communicating with her only made things worse because she would misconstrue it as a visitation from a ghost. She had written notes about it, and told everyone about it, until after some days she kept quiet and eventually turned into a passionate serial killer while her concerned family trailed her at a distance. She had been captured a number of times and committed to an institution or the other but she kept outsmarting the psychiatrists, evading treatment and escaping again. At least until now.

“Was the make-up adequate?”, asked the anxious professional make-up artist.

“Not to worry, at the extent of Lizzy’s delusions, anyone with Chinedu’s build, clothes, and a similar pedantic deep voice will accurately pass for him.”, replied the psychiatrist. "Her supposed guilt makes her want to recognize him easily".

“Thank you, doctor. You were our last hope. Now I am glad we didn’t fly her all the way from Nigeria to the States for nothing!”, said Lizzy’s father as he hugged the softly sobbing  and Lizzy's younger sister.

“It’s really nothing; it’s all in a day’s work. We’re still at a slippery point, so I need to resume right away.”

But as he stepped back into the room, he found the window open and the wind was gloriously rushing into the empty room. There was a note on the table, weighted down by the half-empty glass of strawberry juice and scrawled onto scrolls of tissue paper with post-emesis (vomited) strawberry juice.

“Nice. You almost had me fooled there, but my IQ is way higher than yours. The guy I saw on the bus queue looked very much like Chinedu, I was sincerely scared. Then I ran across the road, flagged down the taxi and was shocked to see him again, so I screamed. With a big difference - when he opened his mouth to speak. The driver’s mouth stank like rotten raw fish. I was about to figure it all out when he gassed me.

Then I woke up here and saw you : yet another double, but this one was closer than the guy on the queue. I almost believed it was Chinedu until you raised the glass to drink and I saw your elbow. There were too many wrinkles there for a 28 year old man like my friend Chinedu. The strength of your laughter indicated the strength of your heart’s muscles as well. You’re roughly 45 years old!

I also wondered why I was feeling sick, until I realized it had to be a form of circadian rhythm disruption due to a jet lag. I asked you where I am, and you begged the question. But you forgot to change the time on my wristwatch, which didn’t tally with the one in the lounge. So I know I am in a GMT minus 5 time zone, I guess it’s in the United States but I will find out in some minutes.

And again, Chinedu NEVER called me Elizabeth. Your research was poor in that respect. Try harder next time. O, I forgot, there will never be a next time. Oops. Hope you get paid for this mistake of yours.

The only point where I agree with you is that I know that Chinedu is alive and I killed all those other people, because when I kill people they stay dead, they don’t keep popping up here and there like Chinedu and all his staged doubles. Believe me, I am an expert at that so I know what I mean. Dead men stay dead, the ones that are alive are living lovely.

I need to find Chinedu. In case you see him, tell him he has a second chance to die for real, for keeping me in the dark all this while. Meanwhile, I’m returning to Nigeria. Deolu is next on my hit list, tell whoever put you on my case – whoever you will soon leave the room to declare your progressive victory to - that Deolu should start running, but he can’t hide. I will make him an example to people who try to resist me. And that’s a warning to you too.

Regards to my parents. Tell them I love them and I’m doing my best to make them proud, but so many bloody ninnyhammers won’t just let me be, so I’m getting rid of them all; I’m just doing what I can to help make the world a better place.

N.B. For your own good, don't drink the rest of your strawberry juice in the glass. Haha. I'm just joking. Or am I?

P.S. Now you should know why I spent so long in the lavatory the second time. I was writing this for you…

Written with my earring, dipped in the strawberry juice I regurgitated by vomiting”
(c) Mavenbox December 3rd, 2009

Christianity EtcRe: Who Killed More People In The Bible? by mavenbox: 11:50pm On Dec 05, 2009
@Ogaga: I have visited your pages on myspace, facebook and other networks. I must say that you sound very very confused, but there's still hope for you too. Hang in there,
Christianity EtcRe: The Christian Trial & Debate by mavenbox: 11:30pm On Dec 05, 2009
*Tears* I started reading this thread with joy but I can see it has started getting derailed already. *Sigh*

@Krayola: Sorry I flared up last time we talked. I was quite new to NL then but now I have observed you (okay, stalked you) in silence for a while and I think you are a great guy who just likes to act too tough for his own good. grin Can we make some peace?
PoliticsRe: Port Harcourt Trans-amadi Meat Market. by mavenbox: 11:02pm On Dec 05, 2009
@OP: Should I believe all these pictures, even with the CORBIS watermark?

Corbis is a digital stock photography collection, so how is it that you know its Port-Harcourt, trans-Amadi?

Interesting post anyway, you got our attention.
Forum GamesRe: The Game Start With The Last Word Prt 3 by mavenbox: 10:47pm On Dec 05, 2009
Guy is a kind of rope that a desperate, depressed guy can hang himself with
Christianity EtcRe: I Denounce Atheism, I Am Now A Born Again Christian. by mavenbox: 5:59pm On Dec 05, 2009
@wirinet: Ever since you became an atheist, how many tangible answers to your numerous questions about life have you garnered? Let me answer for you: very few, and they are at best unfounded speculations based on some physically available evidence.

So for once, I have to agree with AIO. Most atheists do not have answers in themselves, they spend most of their time bringing down religion. They do not have the same answers that they keep claiming that followers of religion do not possess.
Christianity EtcRe: Jesus Christ: Born Dec 25th: Wasnt True? by mavenbox: 5:43pm On Dec 05, 2009
@wirinet, and when you are ready to reply, please reply to the OTHER sources as well. I wonder why you are stating the obvious. I already said that Flavius was controversial so why are you flogging a dead horse? undecided

Flavius Josephus is the most famous Jewish historian. In his Antiquities he refers to James, “the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ.” [size=18pt]There is a controversial verse (18:3) [/size]that says, “Now there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man. For he was one who wrought surprising feats, He was [the] Christ, he appeared to them alive again the third day, as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him.”
Please leave the controversial point and address something else. *yawn* Clutch at another straw,
Christianity EtcRe: Who Killed More People In The Bible? by mavenbox: 5:33pm On Dec 05, 2009
@atheists: Yes! God uses ANYTHING to his advantage. It's like saying that Pablo Picasso is painting a masterpiece and some colors just dont feel right, he can use ANY paint anywhere he wants. We would still love the art, it would still be a masterpiece. Nothing, i repeat, nothing, takes my God by surprise. He uses anything whatsoever to the advantage of his own will. That is why He is God. If there were anything He couldn't utilize to his advantage, that thing would be God, then.

@wirinet: You may also need to study the logical premise of what happened to Job to understand this "cold vs heat", "light vs darkness", "life of God vs. death in the world", in the light of the fact that Satan is the god of this world: the god of the sensory realms where people taste, see, touch, smell, hear, eat, drink and die.

Think about it.

I repeat, God does not kill. He is the judge, and everyone gets what they deserve from the executioners. Most times, that executioner is directly or indirectly the devil. But some day, the executioner will be Christ himself, the WORD of God. And on THAT day, Lucifer will be eternally destroyed with all his followers.
Christianity EtcRe: Who Killed More People In The Bible? by mavenbox: 5:27pm On Dec 05, 2009
@wirinet: Did you read what I wrote at all?

God does not kill. That is a dirty job that satan does, although God can use the circumstance of satan's killing to his own advantage.

Let me ask you, Ogaga, as I have done before although you skilfully evaded the question: Does darkness exist? Does cold exist?

The answer is no. Darkness is the result of the absence of light. Cold is a result of the absence of heat. We study light, we study heat. We can't study cold, we can't observe darkness.

Whenever man or any part of creation raises its head against God in rebellion, it is like a spiritual bloodless COUP: God's sovereignty is not acknowledged so the devil is allowed to claim it as his territory, and then he does whatever he wants there, which often involves killing. Then people will start screaming that God killed people. God does not kill people. Rather, God, in his love, has through time always showed men how to do things so that they don't fall on the wrong side (like the darkness side of light, or the cold side of heat) and get killed, oppressed or destroyed by the devil. Man never got it right, so God sent His OWN Son as a lasting solution to the problem.
I repeat: God does not kill. People die when they "step outside" God. Anything "outside God" is either controlled by lucifer, or is just floating by like a passive entity, waiting to be used by either party. Death exists outside life, i.e. outside God. So, when one steps outside God, they may be lucky to evade death for a temporary while, or they may experience it instantly.

E.g. A very classic example

2Sa 24:1  AGAIN THE anger of the Lord was kindled against Israel, and He moved David against them, saying, Go, number Israel and Judah.
1Ch 21:1  SATAN [an adversary] stood up against Israel and stirred up David to number Israel.

is just an example of a scripture that people think is a contradiction in the Bible. No! Rather, David, in pride, counted the hosts of Israel, and God did not like the idea because the strength of Israel was in their God and not in numbers. He doubted God's power in so doing, so God was angry with him. In that little moment when David THOUGHT in his heart to number Israel (thus invoking God's anger), God's anger was kindled against him and David thus gave satan, the ADVERSARY, the chance to stand up against Israel (i.e. he sought an undeniable opportunity, just like he did with Job. I guess that kind of stuff happens almost automatically, like a hacker who is waiting for a backdoor on a computer network so that he can exploit vulnerabilities, satan keeps roaming to and fro the earth, seeking whom to devour, seeking who he can deal with because they are out of protection. Man is satan's greatest enemy, borne out of hatred, never be deceived.) and Satan actually made him do the counting. Meanwhile, David knows himself that he was the one who had the initial idea of the count, and not satan or God

1Ch 21:17  And David said to God, Is it not I who commanded the people to be numbered? It is I who has sinned and done evil indeed; but as for these sheep, what have they done? Let Your hand, I pray You, O Lord my God, be on me and on my father's house, but not on Your people, that they should be plagued.

Do you know what an adversary means? It is someone who offers opposition to a cause. What that means is that when someone slips out of God's will, the adversary, like a tattle-tale, will report the matter to God, the sovereign judge: saying "So so and so did this" and as a matter of justice, God will need to hand out judgment. The judgment may be meted out by plant, animal, man, angel or even a non-living thing. In the case of Sodom and Gomorrah, nature itself responded to the call of justice with fire and earthquakes.

Saying that God kills is like saying that a Supreme Judge kills criminals? Duh,  He passes judgment! The dirty work of the killing is left to whoever the firing squad or executioner is. The judge just makes sure that the right thing is done.

God sent his Son Jesus so that there will no longer be an opportunity for the devil to accuse people (at least as many as believe in him). This is because whenever someone sins and calls on Jesus, Jesus steps in and wins the case rather than the adversary because the CONTRACT between Christ and the person is that he would remember their sins no more. Whenever the adversary accuses someone of something wrong they did and they deserve death, God shakes his head and points to Jesus, who already died rather than the person. Objection overrulled!

1Jn 2:1  MY LITTLE children, I write you these things so that you may not violate God's law and sin. But if anyone should sin, we have an Advocate (One Who will intercede for us) with the Father--[it is] Jesus Christ [the all] righteous [upright, just, Who conforms to the Father's will in every purpose, thought, and action].

I can only hope you read what I wrote, and understand, without any bias. 'Cos i hardly have time for very long posts nowadays.
Christianity EtcRe: Jesus Christ: Born Dec 25th: Wasnt True? by mavenbox: 4:41pm On Dec 05, 2009
@wirinet: for once you disappoint me. I used to see you as someone who does accurate background research before making posts on Nairaland. The Man who is NOW called Jesus Christ, who is the Son of God, came as the Son of Man, and there is evidence of his existence, even by non-Christian historians and authors. I am too lazy to type a lot right now cos I am busy but I will copy and paste from a site that summarizes my voluminous pages about the HISTORICITY of JESUS, which, fortunately is a course I took in theological school. It deals with the authenticity of Christ's existence as the Son of Man, as the Last Adam and the Second Man, in HUMAN FLESH.

http://www.gotquestions.org/did-Jesus-exist.html
Question: "Did Jesus really exist? Is there any historical evidence of Jesus Christ?"

Answer: Typically, when this question is asked, the person asking qualifies the question with “outside of the Bible.” We do not grant this idea that the Bible cannot be considered a source of evidence for the existence of Jesus. The New Testament contains hundreds of references to Jesus Christ. There are those who date the writing of the Gospels to the second century A.D., more than 100 years after Jesus' death. Even if this were the case (which we strongly dispute), in terms of ancient evidences, writings less than 200 years after events took place are considered very reliable evidences. Further, the vast majority of scholars (Christian and non-Christian) will grant that the Epistles of Paul (at least some of them) were in fact written by Paul in the middle of the first century A.D., less than 40 years after Jesus' death. In terms of ancient manuscript evidence, this is extraordinarily strong proof of the existence of a man named Jesus in Israel in the early first century A.D.

[size=14pt]It is also important to recognize that in A.D. 70, the Romans invaded and destroyed Jerusalem and most of Israel, slaughtering its inhabitants. Entire cities were literally burned to the ground. We should not be surprised, then, if much evidence of Jesus' existence was destroyed. Many of the eyewitnesses of Jesus would have been killed. These facts likely limited the amount of surviving eyewitness testimony of Jesus.[/size]

Considering that Jesus' ministry was largely confined to a relatively unimportant area in a small corner of the Roman Empire, a surprising amount of information about Jesus can be drawn from secular historical sources. Some of the more important historical evidences of Jesus include the following:

The first-century Roman Tacitus, who is considered one of the more accurate historians of the ancient world, mentioned superstitious “Christians” (from Christus, which is Latin for Christ), who suffered under Pontius Pilate during the reign of Tiberius. Suetonius, chief secretary to Emperor Hadrian, wrote that there was a man named Chrestus (or Christ) who lived during the first century (Annals 15.44).

Flavius Josephus is the most famous Jewish historian. In his Antiquities he refers to James, “the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ.” There is a controversial verse (18:3) that says, [size=14pt]“Now there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man. For he was one who wrought surprising feats, He was [the] Christ, he appeared to them alive again the third day, as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him.”[/size] One version reads, “At this time there was a wise man named Jesus. His conduct was good and [he] was known to be virtuous. And many people from among the Jews and the other nations became his disciples. Pilate condemned him to be crucified and to die. But those who became his disciples did not abandon his discipleship. They reported that he had appeared to them three days after his crucifixion, and that he was alive; accordingly he was perhaps the Messiah, concerning whom the prophets have recounted wonders.”

Julius Africanus quotes the historian Thallus in a discussion of the darkness which followed the crucifixion of Christ (Extant Writings, 18).

Pliny the Younger, in Letters 10:96, recorded early Christian worship practices including the fact that Christians worshiped Jesus as God and were very ethical, and he includes a reference to the love feast and Lord’s Supper.

The Babylonian Talmud (Sanhedrin 43a) confirms Jesus' crucifixion on the eve of Passover and the accusations against Christ of practicing sorcery and encouraging Jewish apostasy.

Lucian of Samosata was a second-century Greek writer who admits that Jesus was worshiped by Christians, introduced new teachings, and was crucified for them. He said that Jesus' teachings included the brotherhood of believers, the importance of conversion, and the importance of denying other gods. Christians lived according to Jesus’ laws, believed themselves to be immortal, and were characterized by contempt for death, voluntary self-devotion, and renunciation of material goods.

Mara Bar-Serapion confirms that Jesus was thought to be a wise and virtuous man, was considered by many to be the king of Israel, was put to death by the Jews, and lived on in the teachings of His followers.

Then we have all the Gnostic writings (The Gospel of Truth, The Apocryphon of John, The Gospel of Thomas, The Treatise on Resurrection, etc.) that all mention Jesus.

In fact, we can almost reconstruct the gospel just from early non-Christian sources: Jesus was called the Christ (Josephus), did “magic,” led Israel into new teachings, and was hanged on Passover for them (Babylonian Talmud) in Judea (Tacitus), but claimed to be God and would return (Eliezar), which his followers believed, worshipping Him as God (Pliny the Younger).

There is overwhelming evidence for the existence of Jesus Christ, both in secular and biblical history. Perhaps the greatest evidence that Jesus did exist is the fact that literally thousands of Christians in the first century A.D., including the twelve apostles, were willing to give their lives as martyrs for Jesus Christ. People will die for what they believe to be true, but no one will die for what they know to be a lie.
And if you think the article above was biased, read from Wikipedia, the world's most comprehensive growing encyclopaedia (by common belief and acceptance)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus
The Wikipedia article is by far very comprehensive, but if you still want me to post from my personal notes, i will return to do that when I have some time to waste.
Christianity EtcRe: Dear Angel! by mavenbox: 2:32am On Dec 05, 2009
@DeepSight: LOL grin grin grin You are funny!
Christianity EtcRe: Pastor Bakare On Tithes by mavenbox: 2:32am On Dec 05, 2009
@Viaro: Hey been looking for you to tell you that it's all okay, and Im sorry for flaring up that day. Friends again?

@Topic: No comment.
Christianity EtcRe: Lets Play "Word Association" Of NL Religion Posters by mavenbox: 2:21am On Dec 05, 2009
Oh my WORD! Im laughing so hard I actually began coughing!!

This thread cuts across NL Gaming threads, the comedy section, the dating section (the ones I refer to, know themselves, LOL) and religion!

And this is the first thread where active posters on the Religion threads actually AGREED about a number of things!

JeSoul, I have to give it to you, you are a genius!!!
Christianity EtcRe: Jesus Christ: Born Dec 25th: Wasnt True? by mavenbox: 2:01am On Dec 05, 2009
@Abuzola- Did you know that as you were busy having Eid-el-whatever it was some days ago, there were Ifa priests worshipping somewhere in Ogun state, Nigeria? So does that mean you were worshipping the same god? Just maybe, undecided undecided

When will you guys get it? You keep looking at the moon searching for dates, but dates are rather trivial, after all, time will soon cease to exist. It was once not in existence anyway.
Christianity EtcRe: Who Killed More People In The Bible? by mavenbox: 1:58am On Dec 05, 2009
Joh 10:10 A thief is only there to steal and kill and destroy. I came so they can have real and eternal life, more and better life than they ever dreamed of.
God does not kill. That is a dirty job that satan does, although God can use the circumstance of satan's killing to his own advantage.

Let me ask you, Ogaga, as I have done before although you skilfully evaded the question: Does darkness exist? Does cold exist?

The answer is no. Darkness is the result of the absence of light. Cold is a result of the absence of heat. We study light, we study heat. We can't study cold, we can't observe darkness.

Whenever man or any part of creation raises its head against God in rebellion, it is like a spiritual bloodless COUP: God's sovereignty is not acknowledged so the devil is allowed to claim it as his territory, and then he does whatever he wants there, which often involves killing. Then people will start screaming that God killed people. God does not kill people. Rather, God, in his love, has through time always showed men how to do things so that they don't fall on the wrong side (like the darkness side of light, or the cold side of heat) and get killed, oppressed or destroyed by the devil. Man never got it right, so God sent His OWN Son as a lasting solution to the problem.

Now you may make references to wars and Israel's conquests: but isn't it clear that it was necessary for Israel's survival in those early days? The devil was trying to snuff Israel using its enemies so that by the time Israel ceased to exist, the prophecy of Jesus' Birth would never come to pass. It was attack - the best form of defense. And God did not do any killing in that case. The Israelites did, and the devil allowed the killing of the israelites' enemies: all the people he was meant to be protecting: people that were serving him diligently. On the contrary, God protects His word above His own name: When he promises protection by His covenant and you stay in the Covenant, nothing will happen to you.
Christianity EtcRe: Jesus Christ: Born Dec 25th: Wasnt True? by mavenbox: 1:43am On Dec 05, 2009
@Topic: Jesus may not have been born on December 25th. Personally, I give God thanks for the birth of Christ each and every day.

Let me give you an illustration: when we celebrate the "dead soldier" on the Armed Forces Remembrance Day a.k.a Veterans day http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remembrance_Day on November 11th, and old Mrs Adamson remembers her father that died bravely defending his country during World War I, does that mean the man died on November 11th? In his family, each and every day they remember him, but ON THAT PARTICULAR DAY, the programme of events have been set aside to honour him

@wirinet: I have read a lot about Easter and Christmas practices and pagan similitudes and origins thanks to the early Roman Catholic Church, but does it nullify the fact that Christ came? I guess if I was a historian in Christ's day, I may have taken extra effort to document the exact day but since I was not; I am content with the fact that he came. The date is rather trivial, sorry.
Christianity EtcRe: Now That Banom Is Born Again: by mavenbox: 1:25am On Dec 05, 2009
@Uplawal:
uplawal:
@xristo,who told u i dnt obey JESUS,i have to as a muslim but not the way u people take him,he wills quarely deny u on judgement day for worshipping him
Mat 5:43 You have heard that it was said, You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy; [Lev. 19:18; Ps. 139:21, 22.]
Mat 5:44 But I tell you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, [Prov. 25:21, 22.]
Mat 5:45 To show that you are the children of your Father Who is in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the wicked and on the good, and makes the rain fall upon the upright and the wrongdoers [alike].
The quote above and your claims do not correlate with many things preached in Islam about the Keffir (Christians inclusive).

If you truly obey Jesus, he is talking to you here: hear him:
Joh 8:42 Jesus said to them, If God were your Father, you would love Me and respect Me and welcome Me gladly, for I proceeded (came forth) from God [out of His very presence]. I did not even come on My own authority or of My own accord (as self-appointed); but He sent Me.
Joh 8:43 Why do you misunderstand what I say? It is because you are unable to hear what I am saying. [You cannot bear to listen to My message; your ears are shut to My teaching.]
Joh 8:44 You are of your father, the devil, and it is your will to practice the lusts and gratify the desires [which are characteristic] of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a falsehood, he speaks what is natural to him, for he is a liar [himself] and the father of lies and of all that is false.
Joh 8:45 But because I speak the truth, you do not believe Me [do not trust Me, do not rely on Me, or adhere to Me].
Joh 8:46 Who of you convicts Me of wrongdoing or finds Me guilty of sin? Then if I speak truth, why do you not believe Me [trust Me, rely on, and adhere to Me]?
Joh 8:47 Whoever is of God listens to God. [Those who belong to God hear the words of God.] This is the reason that you do not listen [to those words, to Me]: because you do not belong to God and are not of God or in harmony with Him.

[quote]Joh 14:15 If you [really] love Me, you will keep (obey) My commands.
Joh 14:21 The person who has My commands and keeps them is the one who [really] loves Me; and whoever [really] loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I [too] will love him and will show (reveal, manifest) Myself to him. [I will let Myself be clearly seen by him and make Myself real to him.]
Joh 14:22 Judas, not Iscariot, asked Him, Lord, how is it that You will reveal Yourself [make Yourself real] to us and not to the world?
Joh 14:23 Jesus answered, If a person [really] loves Me, he will keep My word [obey My teaching]; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home (abode, special dwelling place) with him.
Joh 14:24 Anyone who does not [really] love Me does not observe and obey My teaching. And the teaching which you hear and heed is not Mine, but [comes] from the Father Who sent Me.
Joh 14:25 I have told you these things while I am still with you.
and finally, in a nutshell, Jesus is talking to you here too:

Joh 3:7 Marvel not [do not be surprised, astonished] at My telling you, You must all be born anew (from above).
Joh 3:8 The wind blows (breathes) where it wills; and though you hear its sound, yet you neither know where it comes from nor where it is going. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.
Joh 3:9 Nicodemus answered by asking, How can all this be possible?
Joh 3:10 Jesus replied, Are you the teacher of Israel, and yet do not know nor understand these things? [Are they strange to you?]
Joh 3:11 I assure you, most solemnly I tell you, We speak only of what we know [we know absolutely what we are talking about]; we have actually seen what we are testifying to [we were eyewitnesses of it]. And still you do not receive our testimony [you reject and refuse our evidence--that of Myself and of all those who are born of the Spirit].
Joh 3:12 If I have told you of things that happen right here on the earth and yet none of you believes Me, how can you believe (trust Me, adhere to Me, rely on Me) if I tell you of heavenly things?
[/quote]
Christianity EtcRe: The Bible Says The Earth Is Flat While Quran Says Its Spherical, Wow by mavenbox: 1:09am On Dec 05, 2009
Wow! I have been away for so long,  but I have something to say on this thread: I have learnt that ALL the discussion and evidence presented cannot afford a change in anyone's heart. In fact, I have learnt not to argue but just present the truth and leave it at that. For instance, if I have a Black Mercedes Benz and you argue that it is a red Volkwagen Beetle, all I need to do is to show you the car. If you want to keep arguing, you can go ahead. One does not argue with the truth.

I, below, present my reason for no longer arguing on NL religion threads:
AMPLIFIED
titus 3:9  But avoid silly and foolish controversies and genealogies and dissensions and wrangling about the Law, for they are unprofitable and futile.
titus 3:10  [As for] a man who is factious [a heretical sectarian and cause of divisions], after admonishing him a first and second time, reject [him from your fellowship and have nothing more to do with him],
titus 3:11  Well aware that such a person has utterly changed (is perverted and corrupted); he goes on sinning [though he] is convicted of guilt and self-condemned.

The MESSAGE
titus 3:9  Stay away from mindless, pointless quarreling over genealogies and fine print in the law code. That gets you nowhere.
titus 3:10  Warn a quarrelsome person once or twice, but then be done with him.
titus 3:11  It's obvious that such a person is out of line, rebellious against God. By persisting in divisiveness he cuts himself off.
And the verses that lead up to these three verses are interesting, too

THE MESSAGE
titus 3:2  No insults, no fights. God's people should be bighearted and courteous.
titus 3:3  It wasn't so long ago that we ourselves were [size=14pt]silly and stubborn[/size], dupes of sin, ordered every which way by our glands, going around with a chip on our shoulder, hated and hating back.
[size=18pt]Who remembers what Banom used to do on Nairaland?[/size]
titus 3:4  But when God, our kind and loving Savior God, stepped in,
titus 3:5  he saved us from all that. It was all his doing; we had nothing to do with it. He gave us a good bath, and we came out of it new people, washed inside and out by the Holy Spirit.

titus 3:6  Our Savior Jesus poured out new life so generously.
titus 3:7  God's gift has restored our relationship with him and given us back our lives. And there's more life to come--an eternity of life!
titus 3:8  You can count on this. I want you to put your foot down. Take a firm stand on these matters so that those who have put their trust in God will concentrate on the essentials that are good for everyone.

AMPLIFIED
titus 3:2  To slander or abuse or speak evil of no one, to avoid being contentious, to be forbearing (yielding, gentle, and conciliatory), and to show unqualified courtesy toward everybody.
titus 3:3  For we also were once thoughtless and senseless, obstinate and disobedient, deluded and misled; [we too were once] slaves to all sorts of cravings and pleasures, wasting our days in malice and jealousy and envy, hateful (hated, detestable) and hating one another.
titus 3:4  But when the goodness and loving-kindness of God our Savior to man [as man] appeared,
titus 3:5  He saved us, not because of any works of righteousness that we had done, but because of His own pity and mercy, by [the] cleansing [bath] of the new birth (regeneration) and renewing of the Holy Spirit,
titus 3:6  Which He poured out [so] richly upon us through Jesus Christ our Savior.

titus 3:7  [And He did it in order] that we might be justified by His grace (by His favor, wholly undeserved), [that we might be acknowledged and counted as conformed to the divine will in purpose, thought, and action], and that we might become heirs of eternal life according to [our] hope.
titus 3:8  This message is most trustworthy, and concerning these things I want you to insist steadfastly, so that those who have believed in (trusted in, relied on) God may be careful to apply themselves to honorable occupations and to doing good, for such things are [not only] excellent and right [in themselves], but [they are] good and profitable for the people.
Voila. I have little more to say, except to explain what I meant.  cheesy
WebmastersRe: Ushering In Cole8 Nigeria (collate Nigeria) The #1 Nigerian Search Engine! by mavenbox(op): 10:25pm On Dec 04, 2009
@yawa-ti-de: LMAO na so, my sister. I'm in tonight cos I am working on a project that is long overdue, I'm using CodeIgniter (a PHP framework I'm new to, just downloaded it few days ago) and it's giving me a slight headache (only interrupted by some NL posts. LOL). Got any pointers for me, boss?

@Dual Core: Sorry I don't chat with strangers  shocked shocked Just kidding. No, I decline.
WebmastersRe: Ushering In Cole8 Nigeria (collate Nigeria) The #1 Nigerian Search Engine! by mavenbox(op): 10:09pm On Dec 04, 2009
@Dual Core: I do the GIMP, Photoshop too but my Illustrator and Corel Draw skills are not too good. I do front-end dev in jQuery and CSS.

The cole8 guy was more concerned with simplicity a-la Google, I would have done some interface work for him.
WebmastersRe: Ushering In Cole8 Nigeria (collate Nigeria) The #1 Nigerian Search Engine! by mavenbox(op): 9:28pm On Dec 04, 2009
^^^ LOL Sour grapes.
FashionRe: Just My Hobby by mavenbox: 9:23pm On Dec 04, 2009
@michelin89: I have to say this: Good job! I love your art. If you can afford a WACOM tablet, get one, it will make your work neater and more beautiful! wink
Forum GamesRe: If U Were At The Previous Poster's Naming. . . by mavenbox: 9:02pm On Dec 04, 2009
Longus (I can see that you are very tall,  in reality tongue)

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