₦airaland Forum

Explore2xmore:
Political neutrality and nonviolence are admirable principles, but they do not prove a particular interpretation of scripture.

The only reason why we're discussing now is one person: GOD or SUPREME RULER!

So if with all your interpretation you're unable to cohabit peacefully with those you call fellow believers in the same God i'm sorry what is the essence of all your interpretations?

2Timothy 3:5🙂

@ PSTKYLIFELIGHT
You may wish to know why no member of any church has come up to speak up for their church except Jehovah's Witnesses.

Well it may interest you to know that this is the fulfillment of what Jesus said in the Bible book of Luke 23:30

Then they will start saying to the mountains, ‘Fall over us!’ and to the hills, ‘Cover us over!’ Luke 23:30 compare to Revelation 6:16-17

The mountains, hills or rocks are false religions under the control of demons but claiming they are worshipers of the most high God. This is what Hosea said will happen to such religions in the last days:

The high places of Beth-aʹven, the sin of Israel, will be annihilated. Thorns and thistles will grow on their altars. People will say to the mountains, ‘Cover us!’ And to the hills, ‘Fall over us!’ Hosea 10:8

Thorns and thistles has grown on their altars just as Jesus foretold about false religions claiming Christians in our day {Matthew 7:17-16} so they are ashamed to mention the name of their churches.

WHY?

Because at the sight or mention of the group name JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES they are terrified and intimidated as the true God in our midst makes us shine brightly {Daniel 12:3 compare to Matthew 5:14-16} to the extent that they have to hide behind ANONYMOUS RELIGIONS but you will see them coming to argue what the scriptures say yet what is the name of the church where they learned these things? They will become silent! Isaiah 54:17😂

Babylon The Great has fallen completely so members of these religions hides the name of their churches whenever they see Christ's real followers:

And they keep saying to the mountains and to the rocks: “Fall over us and hide us from the face of the One seated on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb, because the great day of their wrath has come, and who is able to stand?” Revelation 6:16-17

Their worthless religions (mountains and rocks) becomes irrelevant at the sight of the mountain of Jehovah (pure worship) Isaiah 2:2

Jehovah's Witnesses, my God will always bless you people for locating me!🙂

PSTKYLIFELIGHT:
It is better to keep this discussion anchored in Scripture rather than labels or assumptions about people.

Jehovah's Witnesses are the only group who have deep interest in God's word but if anyone from another religion feel like disputing what i just said ask them to mention the name of their own church instead of arguing without telling us where the argument is coming from!🙂

Explore2xmore:
it does not establish that any particular organization possesses an exclusive monopoly on that insight.

You are talking like a kid!🙂

If the Bible openly says the name of the group or organization that will have monopoly of insight regarding God's sacred writings is "Jehovah's Witnesses" do you think you can see a single Abrahamic religion that won't call themselves Jehovah's Witnesses?😂

Ọmọ use your brain nah!

Only Jehovah's Witnesses don't join in political struggles and military services these two leads to hatred and killing so no matter how hard you study the Bible you can't love your fellow believers heartily something will always lead to hatred and killing among you yet you will continue to claim believers in the same God.

The truth is only Jehovah's Witnesses see the worship arrangement as truth from God all other religions don't, how can you claim you are worshipers of the same God yet those taking the lead among you have no say in helping you people to resolve issues?🙂

Powerbandooo:
You moniker name say it all, not everyone deserves attention they thought they would get

You just took the words out of my mouth jàre. Most people don't want to learn but the funny thing is they want to teach others!🙂

Explore2xmore:
None of the passages you cited explicitly teaches two eternal classes of believers as one heavenly and one earthly.

If everything will be EXPLICITLY STATED do you think anyone could failed to see the whole message as it's written?🙂

Well what God's word foretold is that it won't be explicit that is why majority of people will not understand the message!

When Daniel asked God:
Now as for me, I heard, BUT I COULD NOT UNDERSTAND ; so I said: “O my lord, what will be the outcome of these things?” Daniel 12:8

Note the underlined as Daniel said he couldn't understand this message that are given in symbolic terms then he asked a question and God answered him:

“Go, Daniel, because the words are to be kept secret and sealed up until the time of the end. Many will cleanse themselves and whiten themselves and will be refined. And the wicked ones will act wickedly, and none of the wicked will understand; but those having insight will understand." Daniel 12:9-10

Do you notice what God said in the highlighted green?
So if the message is EXPLICITLY STATED how could it be difficult for many people to UNDERSTAND?🙂

Well who are the WICKED PEOPLE that are blinded not to get the sense of this messages?

They are people whose hearts are filled with evil thoughts for instance you are claiming Muslim today yet you don't care what exactly could be the reason why Muslims like you will carry weapons to go and kill their fellow Muslims in other countries at the order of a so called ruler whereas all of you claim Allah is your supreme ruler!🙂

The same applies to all these deceivers claiming Christians members of their religion will carry weapons against their own fellow worshipers in other countries and their religious leaders will bless the weapons to go killing their fellow believers yet they all claim their is one supreme ruler over them (God)

Are you people not WICKED as you keep mocking God by hating and killing one another in the name of WAR? Revelation 6:3-4

That is why God told Daniel that only those having INSIGHT will understand His message not WICKED people {Daniel 12:10} whose hearts has been blinded by Satan! 2Corinthians 4:4🙂

PSTKYLIFELIGHT:
Therefore, if someone wishes to place Christ among the things that were made, they must explain how Christ could simultaneously belong to the category of things made and yet be the One without whom nothing in that category was made.

Proverbs 8 22-30 says God Almighty created one person who was with Him until the creation of other things! Colossians 1:15-16

That's what exposes your doctrine and there is no verse in the Bible where God call His worshipers "brothers" neither did God has any God above Him! John 20:17🙂

Explore2xmore:
I guess others are watching you and don't have much better to offer regarding the correct interpretation.

I have told you to ask any of them tell us the church teaching them what they are saying.
Ọmọ they are just playing back and forth arguments because they don't know all these things.
God promised to bless all the families of planet earth through Abraham's descendants {Genesis 12:3} so the Christ will be born among Jews {Isaiah 9:6} and he will teach them how to rule with him {Matthew 20:25-28} the first set of Jews to accept this message will be privileged to rule with him {Matthew 19:28} the names of Christ's Apostles will be the foundation of those who are to rule with Christ in heaven {Revelation 21:14} and the number of Christ's corulers will amount to 144,000 {Revelation 14:1} it's after these ones has been fully sealed that those who are to inherit the earth will suffice! Revelation 7:9; 14:6

So from the onset i know where you are driving at but i kept this away from you because i know it will come to this so instead of arguing blindly bring out verses that says all worshipers of God will be in the same place at least you know that Jesus said he will take some people to heaven {John 14:1-3} yet he still say others will inherit the earth! Matthew 5:5; Psalms 37:29

Don't expect churchgoers to come and argue this because it's beyond their understanding! Daniel 12:10

What a shame?🥺

But is there any part of the constitution that says those entertaining delusional audience should be arrested?

First of all magicians are using tricks to deceive their audience and they are paid for their jobs.

So i will like to know what part of the constitution says religionists deceiving their followers should be arrested?😟

plesion:
There are ways to think of God according to the letter alone, without the spirit, and there is a way to think of it not from the letter alone, but also from the spirit.

Paul said the spirit matters because it's the spirit that confirms you understand what the letter says. 2Corinthians 3:6

Quoting the scriptures is easy but doing what the scriptures foretold matters so do you know any group of people fulfilling what the scriptures said?

Remember that it's only God's spirit that can make it possible for imperfect humans to achieve what God promised.

The group name "Muslims" means true believers in God so let me see how you will prove to be a real believer in God if you just want to argue blindly!🙂

Explore2xmore:
Jesus is referring to the inclusion of the Gentiles alongside Jewish believers, creating a unified people of God rather than two distinct groups with separate destinies.

To those who will rule with him in the heavens Jesus said regarding their destination:

“Happy are those conscious of their spiritual need, since the Kingdom of the heavens belongs to them." Matthew 5:3

To those who will become subjects of the kingdom of Christ Jesus said:

“Happy are the mild-tempered, since they will inherit the earth." Matthew 5:5

Ọmọ this is Bible o!🙂

Suddenly the title FIRSTBORN lost its meaning when it involves Jesus!🤣

Who told you that a firstborn is not one of those being born?

Please who are the children born after the first born so that the first born shouldn't be part of them?🙂

PSTKYLIFELIGHT:
Your conclusion goes far beyond what the text actually says.

First, Proverbs 8 never identifies the speaker as Jesus Christ. The chapter is a poetic personification of wisdom. Wisdom is portrayed as a woman calling out in the streets, building a house, preparing a banquet, and inviting people to dine. If you insist that every detail refers literally to Christ, then consistency would require treating Christ as a female figure who built a house with seven pillars and prepared a banquet. The literary genre itself shows that wisdom is being personified.

Second, even if someone believes Proverbs 8 foreshadows Christ, the passage still does not say that GOD created the Son and then used Him to create everything else. That idea is being imported into the text.

Third, Colossians 1:16 does not say "all other things." It says:

"For by Him all things were created."

The word "other" is absent from the Greek text. It was inserted by some translators because they had already assumed Christ was a creature. If Paul meant "all other things," he knew how to say it. He did not.

Fourth, Paul's argument in Colossians destroys the idea that Christ is part of creation. He says:

"For by Him all things were created... whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities... all things were created through Him and for Him. He is before all things."

If Christ belongs to the category of created things, then Paul's statement becomes self defeating. Christ would have had to create Himself before creating everything else, which is impossible.

Fifth, notice the language Paul uses. He does not merely say Christ existed before other creatures. He says:

"He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together."

Paul presents Christ as standing on the Creator side of the Creator creation distinction. Everything that exists depends on Him for its continued existence.

Finally, the idea that the Father created the Son to keep Him company or make Him happy is not found anywhere in Scripture. That is speculation, not exegesis. The scriptures consistently present the Son as sharing the Father's glory before the world existed (John 17:5), as existing in the form of GOD before His incarnation (Philippians 2:6), and as the One through whom all things came into existence (John 1:3).

The issue is not whether the Son worked with the Father in creation. Christians gladly affirm that. The issue is whether the Son is part of creation. The apostolic writings repeatedly place Him outside the created order as the One through whom all created things came into being.

That is why the scripture says all things were created through Him, for Him, and are sustained by Him. Those are not descriptions of a creature. They are descriptions of One who stands above creation itself.

PSTKYLIFELIGHT:
The scripture says that all things were created through HIM and for HIM, that HE is before all things, and that in HIM all things hold together.

The highlighted shows God only has one person with Him for time not specified but that person was God's first born Son that is why God decided to make His Son really happy by creating more things but in this case God gave His Son the privilege to work as His master worker in the creation of all other things! Proverbs 8:22-30

Truthseeker10:
So according to you, Revelation 3:14 does not teach that Jesus is a creature neither does It teach that Jesus is the creator even though the verse claims that Jesus is "the Beginning of God's creation", Yes or no?

Haba!
The beginning of God's creation means God created himself nah!🤣

Explore2xmore:
Revelation never explicitly states that they are two separate classes of believers with different eternal destinies. That conclusion is inferred rather than directly stated.

When gathering his first century Jewish disciples Jesus told them:

John 10:16
I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd. ‭NIV

And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.‬ KJV

“And I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; those too I must bring in, and they will listen to my voice, and they will become one flock, one shepherd. NWT


Jesus already told his Jewish disciples in the first century that there is another class of followers who are not part of the first set. To the first set Jesus said:

“Have no fear, little flock, for your Father has approved of giving you the Kingdom (government or rulership)" Luke 12:32

They are LITTLE in the sense that they're to rule with Christ so they are NUMBERED but those that will possess the earth outnumbered them!

I have told you that when it comes to the Bible it belongs strictly to Jehovah's Witnesses so ask any question about what is not clear to you that doesn't mean you are not free to continue with your Islam if that's your choice!🙂

Lovelink1991:
Jesus Christ uses his action to abolish the law but that doesn't mean that the law has been written off. That actions is not a law but Jesus uses that to prove that he can override the law but not write it off. So don't conclude that the in all things such a thing should be kept that way. Mob is angry at the act of a prince of God not the act itself. A teacher of the law is breaking the law.

Are those mob doing the will of God?

Is that what Jesus taught his disciples?

Lovelink1991:
Why are you not standing against the acting that led to the mob. Something must happen for another to act on.

How did Jesus stand against the act that led to the mob action against the woman who committed adultery?

What most of you don't understand is how to fight psychological battle. The Muslim man arguing with you is just mocking you since you claim Christian but can't stand on what Jesus taught his disciples. If you must know Muslims aren't taught to wait for the law before fighting against what their religion says it's only when they are scared of the authorities that they pretend as if they are law abiding, in a Muslim country if a woman fails to use head covering she will be beaten publicly whereas that law is only for Muslims. So if you are now supporting mob action against two consenting adults having sex how can you speak against Muslims attacking people when the law doesn't condemn the victim?🤔
So in this matter it's the rule of law that should be uphold not what any religion says. However if you want to claim you are a Christian then think of how Jesus will handle the situation, remember Jesus will never support violence against sinners who committed their acts outside God's house!🤔

Image123:
Okay, so it should gather us as one. Can we be gathered as one in a different denomination apart from yours?

The above is your own question after all the scriptures i showed you pointing to how names enter into the book of life.

Image123:
Smile. When i told you your answer, you were denying vehemently like Peter denying Jesus. Do you want to know? Do you want to know? Funny people.

So if God's word (Jesus) prayed for his disciples to be one as himself with God are one {John 17:22} but no religion except Jehovah's Witnesses achieved that then there is no need arguing aimlessly at least you have known now it's left for you to choose where you belong!🙂

Lovelink1991:
The law of man and the law of God which one comes first both in the Bible and the constitution of Nigeria?

God's laws needs not to be enforced by any believer that's what Jesus taught it's Pharisees who were politicians that kept enforcing the laws on people instead of letting them choose for themselves!

Lovelink1991:
Which side are you stand in the pendulum? Are you against or for?

I fully stands against all forms of forceful adherence because i'm for Jesus who taught his disciples never to force what God said on anyone! Matthew 10:16

To who are you quoting what Jesus did?😂

I've told you times without number that these people don't believe in Jesus but you keep arguing worthlessly with them.

See how they will trash whatever Jesus did and continue upholding mob action!😂

AntiChristian:
No one is saying the Bible permits fornication! The law we use in Nigeria forbids mob action and invasion of privacy among other actions in the video!
A Woman Caught in Adultery - John 8:1-7
8 Jesus returned to the Mount of Olives, 2 but early the next morning he was back again at the Temple. A crowd soon gathered, and he sat down and taught them. 3 As he was speaking, the teachers of religious law and the Pharisees brought a woman who had been caught in the act of adultery. They put her in front of the crowd.
4 “Teacher,” they said to Jesus, “this woman was caught in the act of adultery. 5 The law of Moses says to stone her. What do you say?”
6 They were trying to trap him into saying something they could use against him, but Jesus stooped down and wrote in the dust with his finger. 7 They kept demanding an answer, so he stood up again and said, “All right, but let the one who has never sinned throw the first stone!” 8 Then he stooped down again and wrote in the dust.
9 When the accusers heard this, they slipped away one by one, beginning with the oldest, until only Jesus was left in the middle of the crowd with the woman. 10 Then Jesus stood up again and said to the woman, “Where are your accusers? Didn’t even one of them condemn you?”
11 “No, Lord,” she said.
And Jesus said, “Neither do I. Go and sin no more.”

Physically assaulting God's servants! Psalms 105:15

Lovelink1991:
So the Bible permit fornication. He is called pastor today because of the Bible who said thou shall not fornication.

The highlighted is wrong!

He is called "PASTOR" because that's the title false religions gives their pulpit bandits in the Bible it's an office not a title it's like calling someone "Carpenter Jesus" simply because he is a carpenter! Mark 6:3😟

Tradition has covered facts but then a true student of God's word will not stop searching for the truth!🙂

XanderOreva:
Hell is NOT what most churches and religions say it is. While the word hell appears in the bible, the true meaning what hell is has been obscured and twisted by Greek philosophy and early so called “church leaders”.

The word “hell” is an archaic English rendition of the Hebrew word (sheol) and the Greek word (Hades) that appear in the earliest bible writings we have today. These words rendered into modern language would read, “the grave or under the ground” (sheol), “the place or location of the dead” (Hades). Nothing about a place of eternal punishment.

The English word “hell” itself was derived from the Old English "hel / helle" and Proto-Germanic haljō” which is defined as: “of or relating to a nether world or place of the dead.

Hell is not an English word. Hel/Hell comes from Germanic and Norse languages and beliefs.

Jesus and the apostles taught the death is like sleep followed by a resurrection (See John 11:11-15). The early church leaders – Clement, Ignatius, Hermas, Polycarp, and others who believed that death is a sleep followed by a resurrection, taught that the resurrected deliberate and unrepentant wicked are destroyed forever as if being totally consumed in a fire – their punishment was to be annihilation. These leaders did not teach of an immortal soul to be tortured by fire for eternity.

By the middle of the 2nd Century some church “leaders” such as Athenagorus and Tertullian began to incorporate Greek philosophies into bible teachings. This diluted and in some cases contradicted what Jesus and the apostles taught.

It was Athenagorus (133 -190 AD), a professed Christian and a church leader but whose teachings, according to the Encyclopaedia Britannica, were heavily influenced by Plato's philosophies, who introduced Plato's teaching of an immortal soul into Christianity. In doing so he opened the way for the adoption of Plato’s argument of eternal punishment for immortal sinful souls. This was a hundred years after the apostle's and came straight from Greek philosophy.

Hell is the grave, nothing else.

Ecclesiastes 9:5 NKJB

5 For the living know that they will die; But the dead know nothing,
And they have no more reward, For the memory of them is forgotten.

Ecclesiastes 9:10 New King James Bible

10 Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with your might; for there is no work or device or knowledge or wisdom in the grave where you are going.

John 5:28–29 NKJB

8 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29 and come forth...

Revelation 20:14-15 King James Version

14 Then death and hell were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.

15 Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.

These verses are very problematic for hellfire believers and teachers. Death and Hell are inanimate things which cannot be tortured by fire or anything else.

Now if one has an immortal soul they are alive. Their name should then be in the book of life. But the lake of fire is only for those who's names are not in the book of life. That is a paradox.

Now there are those who still may insist hell is a place of eternal torture by fire. This SLANDERS God as being an evil and vindictive being who would torture people for eternity for doing something that they cannot prevent doing (See Romans 5:12). The bible states the “wages of sin is death”, not eternal punishment in fire (See Romans 6:23).

FxMasterz:
Where did this question come from? Who and you are arguing about jw fixing dates?

First century disciples of Christ makes mistakes and people thought Jesus and his followers are false prophets just as you are doing to Jehovah's Witnesses today but you can never ever find a better replacement! John 6:66-68🙂

Explore2xmore:
The 144,000 as representing the complete people of God rather than a literal, limited ruling class.

The figure 144,000 occurred twice in the Bible book of Revelation.
@ Revelation 7:5-8 the number is once again repeated and then John wrote:

After this I saw, and look! a great crowd, which no man was able to number, out of all nations and tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, dressed in white robes; and there were palm branches in their hands. And they keep shouting with a loud voice, saying: “Salvation we owe to our God, who is seated on the throne, and to the Lamb. Revelation 7:9-10

If it's the complete people of God then how come another crowd of people that can't be numbered appears later?🙂

Guy this is the Bible not your religious book in your religion the number Muhammad told you is 124,000 !🙂

Explore2xmore:
The statement what your religion taught you cuts both ways and if at all it's due to bias. We are discussing to properly interpret without these limitations. The JW interpretive framework is itself a tradition transmitted through an institution, subject to the same transmission questions you dismissed earlier.
Nothing you have written here changes the textual sequence. Cornelius was accepted by God before Peter arrived, before preaching, before baptism. Acts 10:34-35 establishes that directly. The co-rulership passages you cite address a separate question entirely and do not disturb that prior divine recognition.
The trajectory from exclusivity to universal access is not my life view it is the trajectory your own cited passages describe.

The first set of Christians are the ones to rule with Christ so anyone who joins the disciples of Christ in the first century is most likely to be part of the ruling team.

This is what the Bible says:

Then I saw, and look! the Lamb standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who have his name and the name of his Father written on their foreheads. Revelation 14:1

The selection of Christ's corulers is to be taken from the first set of Christians so the 144,000 must be selected before the rest follows them. This first set will be taken to heaven with Jesus (the lamb of God) John 14:1-3; 1Thessalonians 4:16-17

And I saw another angel flying in midheaven, and he had everlasting good news to declare to those who dwell on the earth, to every nation and tribe and tongue and people. Reba 14:6

The remaining Christians are uncountable disciples of Christ but their own destination is planet earth! Matthew 5:5; Psalms 37:29; Surah 21:105

So don't think this is something any of your Muslim people can understand!🙂

chatinent:
Imagine and adult following these people.. omo

The true God won't judge those following them not until they are able to find a better performing group of worshipers and kick against such gathering!🙂

FxMasterz:
Quote where the apostles said these two things in the Bible.

Quote a single publication of Jehovah's Witnesses in which a specific date was mentioned regarding the end of the world!🙂

Now you see what i've been telling you for years that there is a difference between verifying what was said and what spread among disciples?

The Bible confirmed that a wrong notion was spread among first century Christians yet it didn't give us a specific name or time someone said it among the apostle all we can see is that Jesus said something and first century Christians got it wrong.

So continue deceiving yourself expecting perfection from modern day Christians simply because of misconception that went round among them which definitely must have been heard by unbelievers back then looking at them as deluded people as John died and Jesus never returned since then.

Now you are learning!🙂

Image123:
Okay, so it should gather us as one. Can we be gathered as one in a different denomination apart from yours?

The right question you should ask is:

Can any other religion claiming Christians gather as a global family like Jehovah's Witnesses are doing today?

Well that is impossible!

Why?

The short answer is Jesus only deals with one group whose leaders aren't materialistic {Matthew 6:19-21} others wants to become wealthy in the world and at the same time wants to go to heaven but Jesus' true disciples forgo all their riches to become common men in their society {Luke 18:18-23} on the other hand most people wants to see rich men on their pulpits unlike among true believers in Christ who don't rate anyone by material possessions!

Ọmọ it's impossible for religions apart from Jehovah's Witnesses to achieve it! Matthew 7:16-18