₦airaland Forum

Candour: I leave IQ measurements to you. That's if you know what it means and how its measured. With the dull manner you explain and reply, its very obvious that ability is way above your league.

If you have the intelligence, Go back to the trail of our exchanges so you remember what got us to this point.

Cheers

DrummaBoy: Personal text : All things you would ever need in
your life are wrapped up in the word. Go for the
word!

Gender: m

Location: Everywhere the Money is. . .

Time registered: July 04, 2009

Time spent online : 9 days & 19 hours

Signature: I am a tree planted by the rivers of
living water. . .

Last seen: 8:12pm

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Please I request our viewers to see where mbaemeka is "located" as written by him on his own profile: "Everywhere the money is..."

It reminds me of 50cents popular quote on his first album:

"Get rich or die trying..."

Talk about the god men worship.

nannymcphee: Pls who said the bolded & can I get the link to it?

trustman: I know you are looking for a Theology 101 class before you can understand simple issues which somebody in the world may readily grasp. What does 1 Corinthians 15: 35 – 58 tell you about the human body? What does Philippians 3: 21 tell you about the same body?





Wait a minute! You mean you have details about Elijah that were not documented in the Bible? From where did you get them – from ‘revelation’ knowledge? What a “spiritual” man you must be getting ‘fresh revelations’ on Elijah’s life! Very soon apart all scripture that we have we shall be having additional ones from mbaemeka and his likes that they want us to add to the existing canon.
My friend, when John wrote what he wrote he knew what he was saying and no one today can come up to fill in the gaps for him.



If everyone was supposed to be doing these acts, mbaemeka, how come Paul said in 2 Corinthians 12: 12 – “The signs of a true apostle were performed among you with utmost patience, with signs and wonders and mighty works"?


You are the one who should be laughed at. What did Lazarus in Luke 16: 19-31 do regarding ‘KINGDOM FINANCE’, mbaemeka style, to qualify him for what he had in the hereafter?


So a ‘dignitary’ to you is your “MoG”? And you do seriously think that was what Jude was referring to? This truly shows the level of your understanding of scripture.



As a man thinks in his heart so is he.


If your definition of suffering is restricted to only ‘persecution’ then I can see how shallow your definition is and why you people cannot cope with the issue of Job.


Offend me? Only an immature person will be ‘offended’ by a baby’s tantrum.

Candour: Of course Jesus knew it was premature for any talks of utopia. He knew there is a time coming there will be a new earth and a new heaven and until that time, all creation including you even if you keep lying about it will continue to groan and travail in this body of corruption. I dont need to ask him why. I already know because he told us in the word. Christ showed us a glimpse of it before and after ressurection.

You're the one lying and trying to run ahead of Christ to your destruction. Plenty of your heroes made more boastings than you and they were liquidated by diseases that some sinners never even encounter. I hope you don't go the same route.

You could have been beheaded like Paul if you were a christian 'unlucky' to be born in Mosul, Iraq. Rather you boast because God made it possible for you to be born to a tolerant community in southern Nigeria.

Are the Christians being bombed, beheaded, shot and wounded in borno and yobe less christian than you? Is it their faith that failed?

Of course I prefer my position too but I know better than to boast its due to my level of faith or spiritual knowledge.

Ephesians 1:13-14 KJV
In whom ye also trusted , after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, [14] Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

Earnest in that passage means 'down payment'. The bolded portion says God sealed us with his spirit as a down payment UNTIL the redemption of the possession he purchased.

When is the until going to be? Or when did it materialise?
What is the purchased possession that God will redeem then?
If your body has been saved from corruption, why do you still fall into ocassional sin? Why would you grow old, weak, wrinkle and die?(if Jesus tarries)

A miracle is easier to perform in Jesus name if indeed its a miracle and not some stage managed act for which your group is well known.

You guys are incorrigible and totally sold to falsehood and fraud. They don't teach or show people how to perform miracle. Its your warped idea of God that plants such thoughts in your heart. God does his miracles in his own way.

Me don't give? Me call givers greedy?? Not at all. Those I call greedy are those who see God as a Kalo kalo machine which you can manipulate for your benefit.

Resources must flow from those who have to those who don't have in the gathering of God's people has been and will always be my belief. Anything contrary removes God from such a congregation.

This was the practice of the early church. This was the belief and lifestyle of Jesus and its my belief as well.

You know your g.o too fits the bill of a vagabond? He too was said never to have had a pastor over his head. Abi who is the pastor over him now?

No bro. You're only in it to line your pockets. If you say membership drive, you'll be right. Soul winning is very far from your mind.

So your pastors are in the mould of the high priests? No wonder they run your life for you. Paul called him ruler of the people. Is oyaks also your ruler?

Also, pls keep Kumuyi out of that group. He has never called himself a high priest because he knows better neither has he called himself a god because again, he's not on the useless ego trip that confuses you and your heroes.

Saul was anointed and we read it in the bible. Hope you know the fact that anyone had oil poured on him doesn't mean God anointed him? Because you should know Goya oil cost less than 300 naira to buy so you can also get yourself anointed by me today if you wish.

What did Jesus do when the jews said that? Did he rain fire and brimstone on them as you wish you could do now?

But you can scoff at God, ridicule God by telling me you are in God's class and can do what God can do because God utilises the same faith that is available to you? My friend, its you I'm afraid for. You, a mere mortal that God had pity on claiming God's abilities. You and your heroes don't fear God, why should I fear you?

Processor01: I can relate to this kind of pomposity because I have been there before.

My pastors back then always made me and other regular donors feel like we were very special to God because we were 'partners' in 'his business' by doling out our cash to the church. As you progress on this journey, you begin to interpret most bible portions to align with your 'money rain' mindset then you begin to see the 'church building or structure' as the fertile land to sow your seeds and the needy ones around, as less or nonfertile - after all, what stops them from exercising your kind of 'faith'.

This walk gradually draws you closer to the heart of your 'father in the lord' but farther away from your Father's but hey, guess we all know pride doesn't jump on anyone. It creeps in slowly.

There is a way that [b]seems right [/b]to a man, but it's end is the way of death


Brother, slow down.

Candour: In the same chapter where you got this warped idea from, see what God told those he referred to as gods

Psalm 82:7 KJV
But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.

If only you learn to let the bible say what it wants to say. God knew whom he was talking to there and it sure wasn't you or where you a judge in Israel? See the scriptures

Psalm 82:1-4 KJV
God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods. [2] How long will ye judge unjustly, and accept the persons of the wicked? Selah. [3] Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy. [4] Deliver the poor and needy: rid them out of the hand of the wicked.

That scripture read fully will tell you that you've bastardised it to fulfill the lie the devil used to hoodwink eve in the garden.

When Jesus used that reference in John, who was he referring to? Christians or the blaspheming Jews who wanted to stone him for claiming Sonship of God? Are u one of them?

And God made you his partner god? I have heard some of you claim you can create like God, how many plants and animals have you created so far?

People believe God. What people will not swallow is vapour like you claiming godhood.

I thought you said he never suffered hunger? Now its vain quibling because your lie was exposed? Everything Paul suffered, he listed. You lied that he never suffered hunger because you've been taught that a christian shouldn't be honest about his situation. The apostle obviously sees the larger picture and enumerated all his travails so we will all know he wasn't superhuman

If you suffer like Paul did or like the Christians in borno and yobe are currently doing, you would have given up on Christianity a long time ago. Its obvious as you said it yourself. Its clear you are in church because you were promised an eldorado as long as you keep greasing the palms of your pastors.

Why do you like confusing yourself? You call me a nonentity and at the same time, you cry that I'm persecuting your heroes? How can a nonentity persecute big 'gods'?

In any case, you, your pastors and I are equally nonentities in the sight of God and can be zapped at his pleasure. As long as you, your mog and I are in this body of flesh and blood, we all are but vapour and grass

So you know there's an immortal body we will get at Christ second coming? I thought you are already a god and already like Christ with all his resurrection features?

Will you eventually die and rot in the grave if Jesus tarries? Did Kathryn khulman have this holy spirit? Did Paul crouch have it? Did Oral Roberts have it? Keep deceiving yourself.

Really?? What about the others that gave everything according to the scriptures below?

Acts 2:45 KJV
And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men , as every man had need.

Acts 4:34 KJV
Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold,

Were they also rewarded with pastorates and apostolic office? You're really trying hard to make the apostles look like your leaders who sell positions in your church to the highest bidder. Keep embarrassing yourself.

My dear, if we have 12 mog in this country who have the anointing, integrity and compassion of the apostles with the tolerance Christianity has today, the whole nation would have been won for Christ. Instead we have plenty crooks and their lackeys like you who worship them and equate them to God. Oh I even forgot you're a god yourself.

Really? So are your pastors who threaten and cajole people to sow money into their ministries and reap megally lying?

So you actually reckon with the needy? I thought your pastor is the only one you're mandated to give to so the returns can be great? Of course you can't be me. You're too greedy to be me.

Hmmm....you've never given much thought to the poor so why pretend like you care now? You insult those less privileged so why are u suddenly forming compassion? How much does a human being really need to live? I have no problem giving to the needy and ive preached that to u countless times but you'll rather give to an overfed pastor. If you and your churches truly care for the poor, with the funds at your disposal, you shouldn't have a single needy person in your church

Its only an evil spirit that would want anyone to cover up a thief and encourage him to keep taking money from the needy hiding under the canopy of God. You're obviously scared and in awe of your pastors, I'm not.

The spirit asked me not to cover up criminal activities. If a pastor steals or defrauds people in his name or in the name of God, he's a thief. He's a robber.

Candour: I'm not scared of Elijah's achievements and exploits. In fact they remind me of how great, magnificent and sovereign my God is. What I don't do is arrogate the powers of God. See the apostles reaction when some confused men called them gods

Acts 14:11, 14-15 KJV
And when the people saw what Paul had done, they lifted up their voices, saying in the speech of Lycaonia, The gods are come down to us in the likeness of men. [14] Which when the apostles, Barnabas and Paul, heard of , they rent their clothes, and ran in among the people, crying out, [15] And saying, Sirs, why do ye these things? We also are men of like passions with you, and preach unto you that ye should turn from these vanities unto the living God, which made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all things that are therein:

If it were to be you, you would have opened a thread on NL to celebrate it and claim you're publicizing Christ.




Exactly my friend. God is the great rescuer and deliverer. The point is that the 3 Hebrew men realised ONLY God has the power to but here you're claiming godhood. Has it ever occurred to you that Shadrach, Meshack and Abednego read psalm 82 before your entire lineage was born? Do you think they forgot it? They understood that scripture didn't mean what you've twisted it into.




I have no problem with God. My problem is with you that claims to have God's ability to do and undo. You call yourself a god, why then would you need God?

God heals my friend. I have no doubt in my mind. What I doubt is you and some pastors self aggrandizing claims to the miraculous.




Philippians 4:16 KJV
For even in Thessalonica ye sent once and again unto my necessity.

2 Corinthians 11:27 KJV
In weariness and painfulness, in watchings often, in hunger and thirst, in[b] fastings[/b] often, in cold and unclothedness.


My dear, Paul didn't lie and he hasn't commissioned you to lie for him. Like the above scripture shows, he knew when he lacked food and was hungry and he also knew when he was fasting.

Paul suffered wants like any average Joe can and needed charity from generous folks.





Of course mbaemeka is a christian because his pastor promised him an escalade and account filled with $$$ if he repeats the sinners prayer. Are the scriptures below in your bible?

Romans 8:35-37 KJV
Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or unclothedness, or peril, or sword? [36] As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter. [37] Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.

2 Timothy 3:12 KJV
Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.




No my dear. We all will be basking in our glorious new bodies not subject to sickness, disease neither will we suffer any thing untoward again. That is the hope of the believer. That was the hope Paul and others had that made them not to accuse Christ of lying even though they left this world wretched, poor and wounded.




My friend finally unveils a CEC practice. So it was his large seed that made him get anointed by God? Of course thats the criteria for installing pastors in your church. How morally bankrupt. Is God so needy in your estimation? Even politicians will be ashamed to admit they sell offices to the highest bidder.

Where in the bible did you get this satanic conclusion?




Since you were there tell me whom they gave it to. So the boy became a bread distributor afterwards? Also the Bible calls them remnants, how do you treat remnants of your bread and fish at home? You repackage them for sale? Men, i fear you o. You have no inhibition from creating a lie from the bible and spreading it. Haba!!!





Kai!!! Paul's churches?? Can you point to one verse where Paul referred to any congregation as his church?




See me see wahala?? You're the one who preaches that I should sow seed or die poor, now you accuse me of valuing money. Who is the lover of money? You who is desperate to show all that you're rich or me that isn't bothered whether your famed devourer comes my way or not?

You're the one that won't sleep well this night if anything happens to your money supply. I already have more than my needs met my bro. I don't need the ones your heroes promise you every day.




I hope you get the deliverance




Who can claim to have anything that wasn't given by God even if they refuse to acknowledge him?

Also a greedy man is the man who never has enough. This should be clear from the bible and the dictionary.



Thank God for you if indeed he is. He's God over my money which is why I font give it to thieves who are simply after their bellies and not after God. I give to build God's buildings and they're not mortar and brick but people, Christians.

trustman: You still have a lot to learn. You need to learn something from BabaGnoni’s posted statement:


Now to your issues

A writer in a forum such as this must write to be clearly understood and not assume that the reader read posts "with the spirit of the writer". Write what you mean, mean what you write.


Again this is where you lack balance. The example is to show that a Christian can be sick. It is also to show that if Paul and the early held the same view as you do they should have 'healed' him, not even to pray for healing since you claim the authority is there. But they did not do that. Why do you think they did not?



We are dealing with issues of TRUTH here; why resort to unnecessary exaggeration? How can you "sense that when miracles were "needed" they happened" ? For goodness sake this again is how you go beyond the scripture in the bid to get it to agree with your point of view. Just stick to the word as presented.


This was to point out where you missed it. I was referring to the Acts of the Apostles. Who in the book was performing miracles most - the apostles or every other believer? Don't loose sight of this. What does this tell you?


Should the fact that i don't have a spiritual gift make it easier for me to disbelieve someone who has? We are talking here about WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS and not personal testimonies.


I will choose not to join you in your careless remark regarding Jesus.


If you don't know how to store up for yourself treasures in heaven then it really shows you have a lot of learning to do. And you laugh at an issue that has to do with your ETERNITY. You don't understand that THIS LIFE is like a drop in the bucket compared to ETERNITY. You LOL?
And then bring in Archangel Michael into this? Have you forgotten respect for "higher authority"?


I believe Candour has answered you well on this, particularly on the issue of response to the high priest. I hope you see that Paul always acted on what was written.


The issue for you is what do the portions of scripture that you quote mean? You are not at liberty to interpret words the way you feel or think. Always start from what the scripture means not what you what it to mean. See the quote above again.


It is not what i "see". It is what you WROTE i referred to. When you write or refer to money constantly whose spirit is being revealed there - mine or yours?


This is irrelevant here. Maybe you are going this way here to muddle up things.


This is another set of crap...

trustman: Since you WoF advocates have reduced Jesus to your level and elevated yourselves to the level of God this kind of statement so easily comes out of you. You dare equate yourself with the Christ? You don't even seem to know him or his ministry here on earth at his first advent; do you? Again this shows your lack of understanding of what PRAYER is. Remember we were on this sometime back? You are insinuating that the Lord of the Universe be like a mere man? Haba!

Candour: Have you ever prayed for Ebola to disappear since you heard about it? How come we still grapple with it? After all Elijah commanded rain to cease where he was standing and the entire world felt it. He didn't need to go from place to place. What about boko haram? Have you ever mentioned it in your prayers before? Or decreed it out of existence? Why is it still prevalent?

Until you understand that your flesh is not yet redeemed and will grow weak, sick, decay and die, you'll simply keep living in fantasy.

Salvation is of the soul. Your flesh is still of the adamic nature and subject to the elements of the world. The rapture will get us new bodies that will not be subject to any corruption.




Its good you celebrate them.

You're the one who keeps screaming signs and wonders so please oblige me with the proofs and I'm not talking of a spurious miracle of EVD cure in faraway Tanzani.




and you can point to a place where I discountenanced God's miracles? What is in dispute is you and your supermen's claims of miracles that keep getting exposed as stage managed acts or you didn't see the thread on your church's 'healing school' scams and the attempts to cover them up?

Most times, its the minority that keep their heads when the majority lose theirs in the mad frenzy to belong.

I have seen miracles. Miracles happen everyday but I know they're exclusively the doings of God and he can use whomever or whatever he wills at any time.





Was Elijah hungry when he met her or not? How much did he have on him? How many sacks of grain did he have?




Of course I can see your prosperity all over NL. Elijah asked for food and he received from a kind hearted widow. He had nothing on him save his clothes and staff and was the right candidate for charity.




The nite club I used to patronise in my youth didn't miss me too when I stopped going there because more and more night crawlers are being born everyday. So also 'papa' can't miss me as more and more people desperate for more will keep rushing there. Greed is very strong in humans.

Matthew 7:13 KJV
Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:





So because Christ missed the man, the temple suddenly turned to a 'healing school'? Why do you like importing your ideas into the bible? Who were the 'healing school' teachers that taught the man? How long did he spend in this 'school'?

Was the man expecting any miracle talk less of having any belief to be healed? So if you beg money from me now, you automatically believe I have power to heal you? This your logic is warped.

Your healing school has no basis in the bible no matter how much you twist scripture.





Of course a miracle isn't difficult for Jesus. He owns the patent. What is in doubt is your fabled ability to imitate Jesus. The verdict is that you're fake and make up stories of miracles.




Of course in your world, the only money that goes to God's work is the one you pour into your pastor's laps. People routinely support every work that glorifies God without the mediation of your church. There's life and the work of God beyond your church building.

You're the one with an inflated ego who believes everybody who doesn't believe in your pastors must be poor. You're the one who goes to great lengths to tell us how you've become so rich because you 'sow'. I have nothing to prove to anybody. The fact that I have my needs met is enough. Every and any other thing I have or get is jara.

You might be your church's rich man but very well someone else's wretched man. It a question of perspective.





Why not? Traverse lands and seas to make a proselyte then turn him into twice the son of hell. My dear, true missionaries are in the places that have not truly heard the gospel and their work is very effective with the little support they get. Not those gallivanting all over Europe and america that brought the gospel to us in the first place

Every mega ministry is raising funds to evangelise the world so its not a crime if you join the bandwagon. Its a business so why not latch on to it?





I expect you to know that the religious leaders were also the political leaders of the Jews and as at this time, they had become empty of anything spiritual. Only the political remained. He was nothing more than that.

@the bolded. So even though we all know your heroes are charlatans, we shouldn't call them that?





The difference between Saul and your men is that at least, Saul was anointed. Nothing to show most of them are anything more than smart businessmen

I see your problem is that their nefarious activities shouldn't be published.



Sure they're more cunning and crooked than my entire clan. It takes a real sharp guy to keep thousands hoodwinked on lies for so long.

Nothing good to learn from them concerning the way of the cross.

DrummaBoy: Like I expected any less from you. What you wanted, ATTENTION, is what I am giving to you: NOW.

So, Mr Know-so-much, that knows more than the apostles of scripture, so that they suffered and you rather would reel in prosperity, can you tell me one scripture that promises this utopia to you.

Just one!

Lest we forget my subject of contention:

trustman: Mbaemeka
Your thinking is lacking balance. You need to take time to read posts before hastily responding. I think I’ve told you that before. You take people’s statements make your own meaning out of them or twist them round and then seek to use your new ‘meaning’ to attack them. That is being fraudulent.
For example, no one is saying that Elijah did not perform miracles or that God was not with him. But looking at his life you, if you are to be honest with yourself, cannot say that he was performing miracles everyday. What can you take away from that fact?

In the New Testament coming to book of Acts, Miracles were performed majorly by the apostles to authenticate their calling. NOTE was I said here- majorly i.e. MOSTLY; to a large extent. That is different from if I had said ONLY. Do you get it now? So what does this also tell you?

When you get personal or seek private details so as to use them as weapon against your perceived ‘opponents’ I wonder what you are up to. Hoping perhaps that such ‘attacks’ will silence them? If I have performed a million miracles I do not need to broadcast it. The Bible gives me more to boast about than that. Remember the Pharisee who reeled out his scorecard before God – ‘I do this, I do that …’ What was Jesus’ response to him. if you get the praise of men here, you may end up loosing God’s approval.

Go and read Matthew Chapter 6 and see how or how not broadcast your ‘good deeds’ and also where to lay up your treasures – whether on earth or in heaven.

Esteeming anyone highly DOES NOT mean turning them into mini-gods. Esteeming highly DOES NOT mean when a man is wrong you keep quite. Did Paul esteem the other apostles highly? Did he consider himself the least of the apostles? Did that make him keep quiet when Peter was wrong? Do you REFUSE to tell your man of God (or at least recognize it ) that he is wrong because it is ‘his own church’? - his own church, really? A clear command in 1 Cor. 3: 21 is ‘Let no one boast in men’.

Interestingly you don’t seem to understand what it is to break ranks and speak evil. I tried to define EVIL for you maybe you should go back and look at it.

Again one can see in your posts money, money, money; the here and now – having the good life now. Is this Christian?

Candour in refering to you said:

[size=14pt]Trustman never did[/size], its all part of mbaemeka's twisting of other people's posts to justify his line of attack. Instead of seeking to understand people's point of view you seek to use your own worldview of Christianity to 'read' their words.

DrummaBoy: To tell you the truth: I can hardly read through your posts. They reek with such much ignorance one begins to wonder where to start the "fixing" from. You should have taken to the advice of Joagbaje and the "disciple whom WOF loves", nlmediator, and not have bothered coming to this thread. But alas you are here and what do we have: Paul suffered... mbaemeka would not. Nonsense!
My guy, there is no other way of saying it: you have been deceived; having believed a lie for so long.
That lie being Word of Faith, and you just cannot bear the truth being shown to you... a pity.

Candour: Hmmm...this is getting interesting. Is it the same Elijah that couldn't stand the threat from a woman, ran away and started begging God to kill him before Jezebel did him in?
The prophet remembered and realised he was human after all and only did all those miracles and wonders at God's pleasure. When God was ready again, he got reenergised. He wasn't deluding himself claiming a non existent 'godhood'. God is sovereign and would not share that priviledge with any mortal. Wish you guys could stop dwelling in fantasy sometimes and tell yourselves some truth.
If trustman asks anybody to pray to be sick like the apostles, I must have missed it and I'll tell him here that he's wrong if indeed he advocated that.
When Paul and co were being led to their deaths, their faith in God and his righteousness never failed. To the world, they lost out, but to God, they were victors. This was the same faith Shadrach, Meshack and Abednego displayed before the king when, even though they didn't know God would deliver them, they refused to compromised.
That is the faith we are asked to emulate. Not this counterfeit one that only has $$$ as its objective.
How many signs have been associated with you? How do we ascertain you're not simply making up the stories like the usual suspects? After all I can also claim to have cured 100 Ebola patients in bayelsa and you won't be able to refute it.
Nigeria needs your help to combat EVD. How many have you done so far?
Jesus told the apostles that, can you tell us how many houses and farmland Paul had as at the time of his death? They all survived on charity by the church and even Paul had to do a menial job. Did Jesus lie?
You should explain how the 100 fold return didn't work for them since you're the prophet of prosperity. In fact see the testimony of Paul
2 Corinthians 11:25-27 KJV
Thrice was I beaten with rods, once was I stoned, thrice I suffered shipwreck, a night and a day I have been in the deep; [26] In journeyings often, in perils of waters, in perils of robbers, in perils by mine own countrymen, in perils by the heathen, in perils in the city, in perils in the wilderness, in perils in the sea, in perils among false brethren; [27] In weariness and painfulness, in watchings often, in hunger and thirst, in fastings often, in cold and unclothedness.
Did Paul's faith fail? Is there something you know now that he didn't?
Do you know Christians who are raptured will only spend 7 years in heaven before coming back to the earth with the Lord for the millennial reign?
How come the givers of acts 2 & 4 became the objects of gentile Christian charity during Paul's ministry? Did they sow wrongly?
No wonder oyaks, oyedepo, Joshua all have their individual churches now. What was the name of Paul's church? What about Peter's and John's?
No wonder every body feels called today to open a church. Its never about God but about themselves and their ego.....and the $$$$$.
If only those causing the harm to God's children are actually labouring for the flock and not their pockets and bellies, we could have seen them in the class of those Paul was talking about but alas they're greedier than death.
Meanwhile, the reference is 1Thessalonians 5:13.

Candour: That is the crux. God answers prayers and Christians must pray at all times. However, a Christian who knows God is sovereign like Shadrach, Meshack and Abednego affirmed and Paul also found out, will know God reserves the right to do what he deems fit whether you think its convenient for you or not.


Daniel 3:16-18 KJV
Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego, answered and said to the king, O Nebuchadnezzar, we are not careful to answer thee in this matter. [17] If it be so , our God whom we serve is able to deliver us from the burning fiery furnace, and he will deliver us out of thine hand, O king. [18] But if not, be it known unto thee, O king, that we will not serve thy gods, nor worship the golden image which thou hast set up.

2 Corinthians 12:8-9 KJV
For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me. [9] And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.



Did these heroes of faith lack 'faith'? Would you have done better if you were in their position?





So through whom do you 'heal' the sick? Your name?

How many EVD cases have you commanded to go out so far? Or you've not heard about it?

Biodun Kumuyi died of cancer
Paul Crouch died from heart disease
Kathryn Khulman died on an operation table
A. A Allen died from disease
John G Lake died of disease, his wife died of stroke

Would you done better than these giants?






1 Kings 17:13-14 KJV
And Elijah said unto her, Fear not; go and do as thou hast said: but make me thereof a little cake first, and bring it unto me, and after make for thee and for thy son. [14] For thus saith the Lord God of Israel, The barrel of meal shall not waste, neither shall the cruse of oil fail, until the day that the Lord sendeth rain upon the earth.

Elijah was hungry asked her to make a little cake out of what she had and make the rest for herself and her son unlike the crooks of today who like the rulers of the temple in the time of Jesus have no conscience and would have taken everything the poor woman had even when they don't need it.

Elijah was a needy man and got the required help from a kind hearted widow who also got blessed in the process. Unlike your full pastors who like the grave never seem to have enough. That is greed and covetousness in case you don't know and that is what this thread seeks to expose and correct.





How many weeks did the lame man at the beautiful gate spend at 'the healing school' before he got healed?

Of course the miracles you tout are fake like Jack Coe and Peter Poppof before you. So many false christs and false prophets like those you promote are already here and Christ warned us before hand

Matthew 24:4-5, 11, 24 KJV
And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. [5] For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. [11] And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. [24] For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

The big one hasnt come yet but your heroes are the puppets preparing the ground for his emergence. Even Peter had to deal with some of the sorcerers claiming miraculous power like those you promote today

Acts 8:9 KJV
But there was a certain man, called Simon, which beforetime in the same city used sorcery, and bewitched the people of Samaria, giving out that himself was some great one:

Paul's arrival was validated by Ananias the Jew and of course the miracles wrought through him were real and true unlike the healing school scams of today. Also the man could have profited nicely from it if he wasnt called and if he so desired after all your daddies are trying to outdo each other in the hedonism and materialism departments with the cash they rake in from their rackets.

God still does miracles and doesn't need a charlatan's help to tell the world that





See the mentality of a Christian who knows God is sovereign over his life and desires.

Romans 14:8 KJV
For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.

1 Thessalonians 5:10-11 KJV
Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him. [11] Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.

In life or death, God takes glory every time. Whenever he says its time, no mortal can argue, not even you.

Also we know it's part of the 'Christianese' you speak that make you tout yourself as having arrived. We might never know if you beg for a living. This is a faceless forum and no one's status can be verified. Just keep your 'riches' in that little obscure corner of NL where you are. You might not be worthy enough to lace the shoes of those you chat with here so let us rest.





No one I know here has said money is bad. The issue has and will always be the greed, covetousness, insatiability and discontent being propagated under the guise of Christianity.

You are the slave to money when you think having plenty money validates not only your Christianity but also your life on earth. There are many rich miserable people and an African proverb says poverty has been destroyed in the life of a man who can afford food, shelter and raiment. That's the guarantee Christ gave in scriptures. Any thing more is jara and signifies nothing.

If you give to the poor, Praise the Lord for you. That's what we hope you remember to do instead of the showmanship and obscene arrogance and flamboyance going on in Christiandom today.





Of course the high priest Paul insulted had as much authority as the governor of your state and you wouldn't insult him if you're before him. There was nothing spiritual about him, the position of high priest had been politicised long before Paul met him.

Its a different kettle of fish when a crook claims immunity because he can afford to buy a bible, wear a suit and have weak minded people call him 'daddy in the lord'

Only a thief will collect from the poor in the name of the Lord's work while he has millions and billions lying fallow in his own personal account or is he forbidden from following in the spirit of the widows mite?

There are true and honest pastors and there are mere crooks calling themselves pastors





Of course we know the dogs. They are the ones being exposed on this thread.

trustman: 1. Miracles were not everyday occurrences in the time of Elijah. What does this tell you?
2. Read the book of Acts. Miracles were performed majorly by the apostles to authenticate their calling. What does this tell you?
3. Is Philippians 2: 25-26 true? "But for now I have considered it necessary to send Epaphroditus to you. For he is my brother, coworker and fellow soldier, and your messenger and minister to me in my need. Indeed, he greatly missed all of you and was distressed because you heard that he had been ill."
Here is: a brother, coworker and fellow soldier, and your messenger and minister to me in my need. And he was sick. With the apostle's knowledge. What does that tell you?
4. No one here is saying that we should not pray for the sick. The Bible has examples and instructions on praying for needs including healing from sickness.
5. The promise of rewards for Christian service is not necessarily tied to the here and now - Matthew 5: 11-12 "Blessed are you when people insult you and persecute you and say all kinds of evil things about you falsely on account of me. 12 Rejoice and be glad because your reward is great in heaven, for they persecuted the prophets before you in the same way".
Luke 6: 35 "But love your enemies, and [size=13pt]do good, and lend, expecting nothing back[/size]. Then your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High, because he is kind to ungrateful and evil people."
6. When the Bible is rightly put in context and you still scorn it then you pitch yourself against it and not man.
7. The Scripture gives this command - "Do not participate in the unfruitful deeds of darkness, but rather expose them".(Ephesians 5:11)
Exposing that which is not of light or the truth is enjoined by the Word of God. Paul exposed Peter's error openly. error does more harm to the body of Christ than anything else. So i hope by your 'higher authority' and 'due process' you do not mean that if a "MoG" propagates a wrong teaching every other 'ordinary' Christian should just keep quiet so as to respect 'higher authority' and by so doing is following 'due process'. Higher authority and due process should be as the Bible declares them. In the Jude passage it is reference to angelic order. Many of you today still go against this. Due process as far the Bible is concerned is what the Word of God says, not what man says. Man is fallible, only God's word is infallible.

trustman: Can godly Christians fall sick? –
Philippians 2: 25-26 “But for now I have considered it necessary to send Epaphroditus to you. For he is my brother, coworker and fellow soldier, and your messenger and minister to me in my need. Indeed, he greatly missed all of you and was distressed because you heard that he had been ill.”

Does God have the sole prerogative to heal? –
Philippians 2: 27 “In fact he became so ill that he nearly died. But God showed mercy to him—and not to him only, but also to me—so that I would not have grief on top of grief.”

Is the motivation to give to God to be tied to reaping financial rewards? Is seed-faith in the Bible? –
Acts 20: 29-30 “I know that after I am gone fierce wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock. Even from among your own group men will arise, teaching perversions of the truth to draw the disciples away after them.”
2 Corinthians 9:7 “Each one of you should give just as he has decided in his heart, not reluctantly or under compulsion, because God loves a cheerful giver.”
2 Corinthians 8:8 “I am not saying this as a command, but I am testing the genuineness of your love by comparison with the eagerness of others.”

Can miracles be fake or be from the devil? –
2 Thessalonians 2:9 “The arrival of the lawless one will be by Satan’s working with all kinds of miracles and signs and false wonders”

Is “making heaven” less important than physical wellbeing? –
Mark 9:45-47 “If your foot causes you to sin, cut it off! It is better to enter life lame than to have two feet and be thrown into hell. If your eye causes you to sin, tear it out! It is better to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell”

On God and abundance –
1 Timothy 6: 6-10 “ Now godliness combined with contentment brings great profit. For we have brought nothing into this world and so we cannot take a single thing out either. But if we have food and shelter, we will be satisfied with that. Those who long to be rich, however, stumble into temptation and a trap and many senseless and harmful desires that plunge people into ruin and destruction. For the love of money is the root of all evils. Some people in reaching for it have strayed from the faith and stabbed themselves with many pains.”

On speaking evil against authorities and breaking ranks
- What is evil?
- Should ‘works of darkness’ be exposed?

Evil is first and foremost the policy (the overall plan and definite course of action) of Satan. Legalism, (excessive conformity to law or rules – dos and don’ts), socialism, communism, etc fall into this. It is the thinking of Satan as opposed to the mind of Christ – the Bible truths about God’s own policy.
Colossians 2: 8 – “Be careful not to allow anyone to captivate you through an empty, deceitful philosophy that is according to human traditions and the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ.”
On the other hand God’s policy toward man is always GRACE.

The Bible enjoins Christians to take hard stance on occasions –
2 John 1: 10-11 “If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house and do not give him any greeting, because the person who gives him a greeting shares in his evil deeds.”
Jude 3b – “that you contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints”

What are the characteristics of dogs?
Who best exemplify such today?
Do the WoF proponents best fit into these?

Martian: and all the prayers you christians offer to your god and somehow your country is forver backwards. It's always the same prayers about jobs, health and security, so it follows that one should ask the question; does your god ever answer any prayers the amout of prayers you people spend your time offering should have turned Nigeria to England by now.
lmao, a lot of you have been using the word "frustrate" a lot. Sounds a lot like projection. You monkeys are so frustrated that your impotent god never shows up that you just accuse your detractors of being "frustrated. Hilarious!

Bleep: ^

What is the intent of the storyteller here,

and what message is he or she trying to convey? Is it a worthwhile one?

Some questions are in order to determine the answer:

What would the driver have surmised if the preacher was not paying attention to his change and did not return the quarter?

Was the driver judging after the appearance?

How would he know if the preacher was a Pharisee in spirit,

one who gave alms, fasted, prayed, “tithed  mint, rue, and cumin,”

returned unwarranted change, but ignored the weightier matters of the Law?

What kind of Savior is Jesus Christ if the driver should stumble over an error or deliberate offense on the part of the preacher?

What chance is there for mankind if it is dependent upon the virtue of mankind?

Is the salvation of another a matter of chance and human virtue, or is it guaranteed by the finished work of Jesus Christ in His death and resurrection?

Is Jesus Christ supposed to be saving the driver, or is the preacher supposed to be saving Jesus Christ?

Has the driver never experienced anyone not professing faith in Christ returning that which did not belong to them?

Perhaps it could be argued that the driver was merely preliminarily testing the waters.

If the driver was looking for a place to worship, should not the preacher have been speaking the truth of John 4 to him?:

“Jesus said to her, Woman, believe Me, the hour is coming when you shall neither worship the Father in this mountain nor yet at Jerusalem. You worship what you do not know, we know what we worship, for salvation is of the Jews. But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers shall worship the Father in spirit and truth, for the Father seeks such to worship Him. God is a spirit, and they who worship Him must worship in spirit and in truth” (John 4:21-24 MKJV).

If Jesus could save us when we were yet sinners - His enemies, caring nothing for Him, indeed, hating Him - need we live in fear, anxiously grasping lampposts once we are His, lest we should offend?

Will He only have strength to carry us so far, compelling us to take responsibility for the rest of the way, or is He as He declared Himself to be, the Alpha and the Omega, the Author and Finisher of our faith?

This story is another primo sappy story, very fleshly. It is unreal and manipulative.

The bus driver’s conclusions about the preacher are not valid, and the preacher’s conclusions about the Lord and the bus driver are not valid.

Many people would give the quarter back. Catch Hitler at the right moment, and he would, too. So do you go follow him as a man of God?

The driver, or more truthfully, the storyteller, is caught by his cleverness, going by his own signs and criteria, not God’s.

Satan can be very clever and moralistic, especially if it involves and celebrates the righteousness of man.

In this respect, the driver and the preacher, creations of our storyteller, are two peas in a pod. Both are walking in their own righteousness.

This story is a promotion of false Christianity, that is, man made.

The preacher could not sell what he did not have. He did not have the Lord. What he was wrestling with was his conscience. He may have sold his conscience for a quarter, but not God’s Son. And had the preacher sold his conscience, failing the bus driver’s test, the bus driver would only have missed going to that preacher’s service. Presumably, he would not have stopped looking for a church to attend.

Imagine Jesus grasping a lamppost, so relieved He had not almost blown it! That could never happen to an omnipotent, holy Savior. So those who are Christ’s true ministers have their faith in Him, and not in their fallibility to represent Him; they know better, knowing Him. Neither do true ministers of Christ permit or indulge seekers to place their faith in them.

But that still does not ensure that the bus driver was looking for God; in fact, the driver’s criteria to discern true worth in an alleged man of God could very well say otherwise. If God were drawing him, he would not have been testing anyone in that way – God would have inspired him differently.

If a man is truly searching for God, he is not looking for a man or church. Neither will a thousand lying preachers and angels keep him away from Christ, because God is drawing him, and who or what can prevent God? Darkness compels the true seeker towards the Light.

To paraphrase the Scriptures, man’s unrighteousness commends God’s righteousness, and the Truth of God abounds through men’s lies (Romans 3:3 and following).

As for the “Watch your whatevers” at the end of this document, it is true that thoughts may lead to words and actions, actions to habits, habits to character, and we become what we choose to think, speak, and do. It is true that we serve as examples for others and should therefore be careful that we are not a cause of stumbling.

Now what shall we do? Shall we trust in our own strength, or shall we trust the Lord to deliver us because we are without strength? Is He in our hands, or are we in His? Just who is the potter, and who is the clay?

Victor Hafichuk
Paul Cohen

http://www.thepathoftruth.com/teachings/sappystories/busdriver.htm

Elijah78: @OP, I think the issue here is that any one can call himself a christian, believer etc. But they do not have a real relationship with God.
They do not have faith (hear a spoken word from God, submit to the word and obey it). They believe instead in the written word which
does not work (And they know very well it doesn't work the way our pastors have made us to believe), So they are not also sure they will go to
heaven when they die.
e.g, The bible says ""you will be the head and not the tail"",''I am a king, kings do not beg"", ""I am a god, i have the live of God in me"" etc.
You confess this daily as requested by your pastor (the power of life and death is in the tongue) and you find out that it is not working, which you will certainly not tell your brethren or pastor for fear they will accuse you for lack of faith. Then how sure are you that heaven will be your home at the end, when the most basic things have not worked as your pastors thought you and as you have read in scripture?
My Short Story: I was in church one day, to be precise CEC and we were doing mass prayer when suddenly i had an excruciating tooth ache. There was no way to hint any body because the mentality we all had was that if a bro/sis is sick etc it means he/she lacked faith, so i continued to pray, spoke in tongues, confess the word, speak faith words etc to no avail, when service was over i went home pretending all was okay ""no one in Zion shall say i am sick"", but for how long will the false pretense last? I had to sneak my self to the hospital for medical attention. So @OP i can assure you that from my experience with ""religion"" i would be in the same shoe with those who fear to die.

Sarassin: I accept the plausibility of the Jews instigating the Governor of Damascenes to seek the death of Paul, even though there are slight discrepancies in his manner of escape, in the great scheme of things it is inconsequential.

I take issue with the second part of your posting relating to Paul’s movements, even though we seem to have taken a bit of a geographical expedition. My point is this, reading the gospels, as they were meant to be read, i.e as individual accounts, one deduces from the writer of Acts of Apostles that Paul meets with the Jerusalem apostles immediately after his conversion on the road to Damascus.
Paul himself makes it crystal clear in his writings he did not meet with the apostles after his conversion, particularly at pains to show he received no instructions on gospel from them. Irrespective of hair-splitting over whether days meant “years” , it is only by conflating the two accounts, creating in effect a "supra-gospel" you are able to arrive at your position.