₦airaland Forum

shdemidemi: My friend,
the passage never said you are immune to these things, might not be what you like to hear, but it just did not say that. What it says is even with the presence of all these things, we have a hope in Christ.
Did He permit Job's misfortunes?
Can a christian pass through anything without the knowledge of God?
The bible says the outward man perishes, not old.. may be you should lookup that word.
The job of the Holy Spirit is to comfort believers.
Who needs a comforter?
There has to be a difference between a christian living with such disease and an unbeliever. A christian is confident about his future, he is confident that even at death, God remains good and He knows better.
The bible never exempted us from going through fire but says even while you are in fire, I will be there with you.

There's a lot of scripture-posting with zero experiences to back it. It's easy to isolate points and generate a teaching but it is escapist not to put what you believe to the test. When such is done we start to rationalize the word of God and then pick and choose what to believe and it is only tantamount to more and more confusion.

For example, Paul listed what he said he was more than a conqueror of amd he didn't list sickness or disease but you will add it for him and say God allowed Job to be tested. Fine, who brought the sickness that God allowed? Satan; the devil.

Now if I show you where the scriptures say God has given us power over all the works of the devil you will say no, he only did it then to prove Himself to the Jews. If I show you Gentiles that got miracles you would say it was an era that has passed. If I show you present day people who received miracles you would say it is stage-managed or wrought with Satanic powers. If you see that it was done in Jesus name and cannot refute it you then conclude that it is vanity.

If I use the same Ecclesiastics (where you got the vanity talk) to show you about miracles or God's power you will still say Solomon made errors we cannot learn much from him and you will deny each Bible verse pointed at you till you deny the whole bible.

Paul said WE ARE more than conquerors through Christ. He didn't say we have a hope in that verse. Where did you get it from?

God knows everything that happens on earth. He doesn't interfere just because he is God. That's why he taught us to pray. Do you think prayer can change anything?

What did Paul mean by the outward man perishes? Can we go Greek to show that your interpretation of perish is turned on its head? Tell me, what sickness did Abraham die of? What about Moses? What about Job?

When Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego where in the fire, did God let them burn? I will wait.

The Holy Spirit is more than a comforter. He is an advocate, a helper, a teacher, a standby, an intercessor, a counsellor. He doesn't only comfort in persecution, he helps in challenges, he intercedes on our behalf, he teaches etc. If you don't know these attributes about him then you don't know him enough. And you are advised to search more and find him.

You people that are responding to this inanity are the true heroes. Just a few weeks back Beyoncé had hired lawyers to divorce her husband JayZ. She had bought a house in NY worth $21M. She had accused him of Adultery and what not. All his mistresses came out to talk. As this News kept filtering through all the major news stations carried it- NBC, FOX, CNN even E! As well as all the blogs.

When the woman got tired she put a picture of herself wearing a jersey with her husbands name yet the critics claimed it was old (imagine on her own INSTAGRAM page o). Then she put a picture of her husband with their daughter and called them her favorite hue. The Gossips still didn't budge. Finally after performing in a particular show, her husband came out with their daughter to celebrate and honor her. They even showed many signs of affection. Guess what our critics said- that they were doing it as a public stunt.

It is this same ignoramuses again only at a different level. How many years ago have they separated the MOG from his wife? How many years ago did they divorce her from him? Now they're creating blogs and fake pages and even falsifying quotes on them. It is satan for we know how he acts. So we expect another promotion in the realm of the spirit. As this sort of false news always bring such our way

We know they will not stop simply because a demon has been instructed to use and destroy them. That's why Pastor Chris never responds but will instead walk in love. He knows about the vengeance of God. There are some other MOG that would have put many bloggers in jail by now while the vengeance of God will come later.

So brethren, I implore you all by the mercies of God not to bother honoring such threads with a response. This man built a world class auditorium for AAU and the thread barely made 4 pages. When sick presidents meet him and get healed Vanguard doesn't carry it. When he gives widows 2M naira nobody wants to hear about it or if he gives a drummer a brand new SUV 2014 model they will call him a thief. But just a rumour about him losing a strand of hair and now everyone knows who he is and what he teaches.

Nigerians and some even so called Christians in general. Very funny bunch of people I tell you.

shdemidemi: Why and how did we become more than conquerors through Christ?

By justification (just as if we never sinned)

35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or unclothedness, or peril, or sword?
36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.

In ALL these things we are past conquering. He didn't say sickness or disease. He said persecutions et al. More than conquerors means someone else conquered on your behalf and then gave you the credit.

What would you advice a sick Christian, to stop giving thanks?

IN ALL THINGS is encapsulate the good times and the very bad times.
Philippians 4
11 I am not saying this because I am in need, for I have learned to be content whatever the circumstances.

Paul didn't sound like all will be plain sailing for him nor for us. There are times when conditions will be unfavourable, this can come in any form, the word of God becomes our strength at such times. If our mind is right with God's word, we will sincerely praise God cos He is closest to us when we seem weak.

If you are sick you command it to leave in Jesus name and continue giving thanks. ALL things to Paul was in persecutions, beatings, peril, sword, unclothedness, tribulations etc. NOT sickness faa. We cannot thank God for sickness. He didn't give it and he doesn't want us to suffer it. That part is clear.

As the earthen vessel perishes! Did you see that?

The earthen vessel is what you and jo try so hard to refurbish and embellish leaving the spirit which happens to be the core reason for our faith.

The earthen vessel is growing old that's what he means. Not growing sick. Besides you wouldn't even remember you are a Spirit being if the body is suffering from Ebola. Let us be practical with Christianity for Jesus didn't lie. He said if it was not so he would have told us.

shdemidemi: Now, check the meaning of revealed- it means to uncover, unveil.

If antichrist like many people assume will come as one against Christ, man will flee. Rather he will come like a counterfeit.

He will deceive people then because God will let them be deceived (scripture says he will send them strong delusion). He will also perform as many signs as Jesus in a convincing way (this being possible because the church restraining him are out of the way). He will blaspheme Christ and even call himself God. That's why a lot of bible scholars and even Pastors believe he will come as a Jew.

The Jews will think he is their expected Messiah especially as he will ridicule Jesus' name. And he will act like a ruler or king (that's why some doubted Jesus- they thought he was to come as an earthly King). They will accept the anti-christ when he comes. That's why it is not the Pope. The Pope is hated by most of the world still but the antichrist will be loved by the world for a time.

he same Gospel of the Kingdom that Jesus preached in His three years of ministry will be proclaimed again during the Tribulation. It will be different from what we have today from the Holy Spirit through apostle Paul.

There will be no grace teaching during tribulation meaning there will be an end to the present administration/dispensation of grace which came through the initiation of the Holy Spirit

Yep, some people believe this. I would be honest I haven't fully understood this aspect but what do I care? I would have been gone by then.

Did I say otherwise?

There is a difference between the dispensation of the Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirit.

ok

Candour: There's no contradiction if you take the whole into consideration. The "seems" I put there was in italics

Then you cannot keep one scripture on Believing and speaking away from your purported (purported because it doesn't exist) "only believing".

@the bolded, has anybody said anything about denying Jesus? Pls point it out if I missed it. The act of confessing Christ is a daily affair and isn't what we are talking about here.

When a man is saved, he'll want to tell the world but its not his telling the world that saved him. Its his salvation that enables him tell the world

Confessing what I believe [in this case Christ] is what I have been talking about. And No it is his faith that enables him tell the world and not his"salvation". Do you feel saved? How so?

@the bolded, do you know some more modern English bible translations render Rom 10:10 in a different manner than KJV? For instance, see amplified version

Rom 10:10 AMP For with the heart a person believes (adheres to, trusts in, and relies on Christ) and so is justified (declared righteous, acceptable to God), and with the mouth he confesses (declares openly and speaks out freely his faith) and confirms [his] salvation.

Even the AMP supports me. It says with the mouth he speaks/declares his faith and CONFIRMS his salvation.

Pls don't force the bible to say what you want it to say. The man wasn't called a believer before he got his miracle. He was just another man in the crowd seeking a miracle. In any case, you remember you also said a miracle can't occur without verbal confession?

The bible says Paul perceived the man had FAITH to be healed. The faith the man had was the one to be healed. It automatically means he already had faith in the gospel that he heard Paul preach a day or time before Paul healed him. That faith in the gospel made him saved.

Yes a miracle wrought by a person on the person's own situation requires his verbal proclamation or act. In this case Paul was the one who spoke the word on the man while the man responded by acting on Paul's instruction.

If a man believes in his heart from now till eternity that God want's him healed from an ailment it would not change the situation. The man would get weaker and weaker and weaker till he may eventually die. But when he speaks out, he has activated his faith and will receive a miracle [or what he speaks out]

@the bolded, is that not what we've been saying since? They were saved which is why the Holy Ghost gave them the utterance. They were saved before they started speaking. Their speaking was God's way of showing Peter and the world that "I've saved these ones already, keep your Jewish hangups in your pocket". It confirmed their salvation to the world, not to God. If God didn't see them as already saved, he wouldn't have released the Holy Spirit to them.

If they didn't open their mouths to speak they would have been right with God [for they already were even before Peter came] but they wouldn't have been saved. When they spoke they activated the faith that they had by already believing the gospel that Peter preached. God saw them as right/acceptable but not saved. When they opened their mouths, they were confirmed.

Of course the demons will hear me speak it everyday but whether they hear or pretend not to, it WILL NEVER EXPUNGE my name from the book of life

Of course, as long as God heard you. God expects us to speak/confess what we believe. The Greek word for confess as used in Romans 10:9-10 is Homologia and it means to say the same things God has said concerning you in agreement with him and not to start saying "Oh God I am a sinner, save me". If God says "If you believe my son died and was raised for your sake you are saved" you ought to say "yes Lord, I believe your son died and was raised for my sake. I know I am saved". That's why I say "I dwell in health etc." Because God has said "By the stripes on his son's body I was healed". If I was healed, then I am healed and will always be in good health. Glorrrrrry!

Will God refuse to answer me if I don't verbalise my request? See below

1 Samuel 1:13 KJV
Now Hannah, she spake in her heart; only her lips moved, but her voice was not heard: therefore Eli thought she had been drunken.

What do you think of Hannah case? Have you ever received a miracle you wished for but never prayed for? I have

Scripture says Hannah's lips moved but Eli didn't hear (actually understand) what she said. It doesn't mean God didn't hear her. And yes I have received miracles without Prayer sometimes. That's why I told Trustman not everything must be lumped into prayer. Some can come by just acting our faith.

Mark 2:5, 10-12 KJV
When Jesus saw their faith, he said unto the sick of the palsy, Son, thy sins be forgiven thee. [10] But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (he saith to the sick of the palsy,) [11] I say unto thee, Arise, and take up thy bed, and go thy way into thine house. [12] And immediately he arose, took up the bed, and went forth before them all; insomuch that they were all amazed, and glorified God, saying, We never saw it on this fashion.

Where is the confession either in the healing or in the forgiveness of sins for the man above?

Again this is faith to be healed and it is somewhat different from personal faith because Jesus was to do the healing. The man and his family had faith in Jesus already- they believed all they heard about him. Now Jesus perceives their faith because they broke the roof of his house to bring the man in just so he could heal him. That's an act of faith. They believed and acted like they did.

Can blinking of the eyes also serve to show this confirmation of salvation? What about a thumbs up or nodding of the head? Are we free to substitute any action we like in place of "speaking with the mouth"?

Sure, it's an act of faith. Of course, I am not God so I don't know what he will do in such situations as the word didn't expressly state so and I haven't studied the issue that deeply. He can break protocols for dumb people (he is that kind).

WinsomeX: That is your own gospel. It is not what the Bible teaches. Yours is a false gospel. Scripture and the dictionary shows that

Believing = FAITH

People said worse to Jesus. They say same about Paul. I am not offended. Besides I don't take my authority from a dictionary. It explains why some of you are so confused about the scriptures. Ruminate on this:


2 Corinthians 4:13King James Version (KJV)
13 We having the same spirit of faith, according as it is written, I believed, and therefore have I spoken; we also believe, and therefore speak;

Tell your dictionary to conform to Paul. Paul just said faith- believes and therefore speaks.

Your equation is not balanced and it is erroneous.

So says you and your dictionary. James and Paul disagree. Jesus too. I trust them more.

Acts 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Oh lord! How do I believe?

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

You believe and therefore speak. That's faith.

Romans 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Yes the man doesn't need to obey his parents; stop sinning;start going to church etc. before he becomes saved. He just has to say "I believe Jesus is Lord" after believing it in his heart and he will be saved.

Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved

Exactly what I said above. If you confess the Lord Jesus with THY MOUTH after believing in THINE HEART that God raised him thou shall be SAVED.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

If you believe you will speak. They work viz-a-viz. Geez.

shdemidemi: The Pope/antichrist/counterfeit Christ

this man of sin, the antichrist will not be an opposer of Christ per se, but rather a counterfeit.

The Pope is already in the world and has been in the world for ages. The man spoken of in that verse of scripture will be revealed. Besides, the antichrist will be that one is anti; against; opposite -Christ and the Pope is not against Christ.

Holy Spirit.. After the dispensation of the Holy Spirit, he will be revealed.

There is no single scripture that states that the Holy Spirit will be taken out of the way. Jesus said the Holy Spirit will be on earth forever. There is nothing like after the dispensation of the Holy Spirit. The only thing that will be removed from the earth is the Church (christ's body) at the rapture.

The end of this present dispensation- rapture

Wrong. Only Christians leave during the Rapture. Not a single scripture says the Holy Spirit's going anywhere.

After rapture.

After the great tribulation.

Good. And we know the rapture hasn't occurred so the Man of sin hasn't been revealed yet QED.

shdemidemi: are you sure? Speak for yourself bro.

The bible says 'In all things give thanks', some must see a miracle before it crosses there mind to give thanks.

In all things give thanks that what? Paul said that- We are more than conquerors through Christ. Not that if I am sick I should give thanks. It is similar to a man in sin yet he gives thanks to God for it. That is not scripture.

Confirmation!

Tantamount to saying you need to see if you must believe. If it is it all about confirmation for you, I hope people like Jo don't drag you in too deep before you realise the truth.

The sort of confirmation you seek is what the bible calls temporal

2 or 4
17 For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, worketh for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory;

18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

The problem is that you are isolating scriptures and giving an isolated interpretation of the verses. Before verse 17 and 18 came about see verse 6 and 7

6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.
7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

God that called light (good things) out of darkness (bad situations) has shined in our hearts and we have his glory in earthen vessels (mortal flesh) even though the excellent power (source) is from him. So even when we are persecuted, distressed, beaten, attacked, insulted etc. We faint not; because as the earthen vessel is perishing the Spirit is being renewed daily vv16. That's why he now said the persecutions et al are light afflictions and can only affect the flesh (physical things) for a moment (hence temporal), while the Spirit (Unseen) which glows with God's glory (and continues to improve in glory as we behold him) is eternal.

It says nothing about accepting sicknesses and diseases. It speaks only of Persecutions et al.

shdemidemi: that is where you are missing it, there is no prove to be shown. The anchor of our faith should be the word and not a display of miracles and wonders.


God has backed His word up through His divinity and through the foundation of the gospel of Christ. There is nothing more to prove to you or anyone else. God does not exist for us, we exist for God. FACT


The actual reason for miracles in the bible is because the Jews will not just take God at His word. Moses will ask for a sign, the people will ask for a sign because of their unbelief.

I believe every word written in the book knowing that my present afflictions and troubles are but for a moment. Why do I need miracle merchants like jo if I truly believe God's word?

Nobody is desiring miracles per se. If we act on the words of Jesus we see them happen. There's nothing more to take away from that. But when people start saying "God doesn't need to confirm his word" we have to ask them for the scriptures that say so.

Shdemidemi,

2 Thessalonians 2:3-10 NLT

Don’t be fooled by what they say. For that day will not come until there is a great rebellion against God and the man of lawlessness is revealed-the one who brings destruction. He will exalt himself and defy everything that people call god and every object of worship. He will even sit in the temple of God, claiming that he himself is God. Don’t you remember that I told you about all this when I was with you? And you know what is holding him back, for he can be revealed only when his time comes. For this lawlessness is already at work secretly, and it will remain secret until the one who is holding it back steps out of the way. Then the man of lawlessness will be revealed, but the Lord Jesus will kill him with the breath of his mouth and destroy him by the splendor of his coming. This man will come to do the work of Satan with counterfeit power and signs and miracles. He will use every kind of evil deception to fool those on their way to destruction, because they refuse to love and accept the truth that would save them.

Question:

- Who is THE man of lawlessness (sin)?
- What is holding him back?
- What will make ^ above step out of the way?
- When will Jesus come back to earth?
- When will he kill the man of sin?

Please let us study the word of God in depth so that we can divide rightly.

shdemidemi: And you think the man of sin and his agents aren't present in our churches today?

7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.


The man of sin is here and his agents are deceiving and diverting the attention of the saints from God to love for self and visible wonders. The bible says he shall be revealed at the coming of Christ.

There's already sin in the world and therefore men of sin. This will continue till he who lets is taken out of the way then THE MAN of sin will arrive. He that "let's" is the Church of Christ on earth. We are restraining Satan from unveiling the man of sin; the anti-christ. When we are taken out (the Rapture) that is when Satan will now be able to unleash his full wickedness and evil powers on the earth that will deceive many that are still on earth at the time.

Thats what Paul is teaching there. Else we can also say that Paul could be a worker of iniquity as some people already say even on NL.

Elijah78: Matt 12:39

And Jesus replied, What you’re asking now only proves what I’ve just said. Only a worthless, unfaithful generation that loves the world more than they love God, would continually demand miracles for proof of God’s existence. But, no more will be given, except the one that Jonah represents.

Jesus says it like it is:"Any generation that continually seeks after miracles is both worthless and unfaithful."

How can you prove the message you believe is right and what others believe is wrong?

Are we to trade words till eternity? If what you believe is true let God back it up or else we can assume he doesn't exist.

BTW the preceding verses before verse 34 shows Jesus teaching people about the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. It is not coincidental that he related the fact that Pharisees accused him of using satanic powers to heal a man that was afflicted. He was telling them what they said was blasphemous to the person of the Holy Spirit: the one who actually performs the miracles. So keep making such insinuations and let's see where it will get you.

Also, if you are looking for false prophets and false brethren. Begin with those who say they believe but don't act like it. The one's who cherry pick scriptures and rest in the one's that seem to say God is dead. The one's who have not entered the kingdom but will impede the way of others who want to. The one's who talk about godliness but deny the power therein.

Then you can proceed with the one's who charge you fees for the things they were sent to do freely. The one's that encourage you to drink groundnut oil in the name of anointing. Those who tell you the name of Jesus doesn't work anymore. Those that insult dignitaries and speak of matters that are above them. I assure you, you will find less and less miracle workers in their midst. Afterall God still confirms the words he actually made so that people don't get any more confused or what will you say about Paul who wasn't there at the time of Matthew 12 yet came into the scene and still worked miracles by God's power. Shouldnt they have called him the false miracle worker Jesus prophesied about?

Don't let anyone deceive you. Jesus is the same: yesterday, today and forever.

Elijah78: II Thessalonians 2 (Here’s the paraphrase of verses 9-12):
9: This rebellion will come through the work of Satan himself, who will enable those who follow him to display all sorts of supernatural manifestations, miracles and convincing signs to prove that God is on their side – all of them lying wonders used to deceive.
10: There will be no limit to the ever-increasing deceptions and perversions Satan will use to seduce people into joining his rebellion, and these are the ones who are perishing because they refused to love the Truth so they could be saved.
11: And since they refused to love the truth, God will cast an overwhelming delusion over them to make them believe the lies.
12: And they will all be condemned because they would not follow the Truth; but, instead, were more than willing, even happy, to be a part of the rebellion.

Thrash!!! Read the verse 8 and stop living in unbelief. Has the Man of sin come? Has the anti-Christ come? Scripture says he will come first before verse 9-12 happen.

NB: Scripture says THE man of sin and not A man of sin. So don't come back and tell us about men of sin.

WinsomeX: Acts 16:29 Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas, 16:30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. 16:32 And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house. 16:33 And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway. 16:34 And when he had brought them into his house, he set meat before them, and rejoiced, believing in God with all his house.

The discussion between Candour and mbaemeka is very interesting. In the scripture text above, the Jailer asked what to do to be saved. Paul replied "believe". He didn't say believe and confess. He simply said believe.

John 3:16, said "he that believes... will have everlasting life" or be saved.

The Pauline epistles are popular for emphasizing Justification by faith, not Justification by faith and confession.

Are we not introducing a new dimension of "works" to the concept of salvation when we begin to emphasize "confession" as an essential part of salvation?

Or, at what point in the story above did the jailer become converted?

Believing + Speaking = FAITH.

When Paul told the man to believe in Jesus Christ and be saved he didn't baptize the man. He then preached Jesus to the man and his household AFTER which he baptized them. If we are to place it adjacent to Phillips encounter with the Eunuch we can tell that before the Baptism of the jailer and his family by Paul they must have expressed their faith.

James said even demons believe in one God and as such tremble. We are to do more than believe (mental assent) to the fact that Jesus is lord. We ought to SAY it out "Jesus is lord of my life". It is not 'works'. It is called corresponding actions of believing also known as FAITH.

Candour: God validates a man's salvation and the word (Jesus) started the message in John 3:16. If Rom 10:10 seems to contradict it, we need to study more to find out why.
The lame man wasn't a Christian. Pls don't force scripture to say what it didnt say. It was a city that had NEVER heard the gospel. See the scripture
Acts 14:7-8 KJV
And there they preached the gospel. [8] And there sat a certain man at Lystra, impotent in his feet, being a cripple from his mother's womb, who never had walked:
The man was hearing the gospel for the first time.
Is salvation required for holy ghost filling or not? Can an unsaved man be filled with the holy ghost with evidence of speaking in tongues?
Was Peter's confirmation needed by God before he could save Cornelius?
Does the devil and his demons have any part to play in my salvation? Will God withhold salvation if demons and angels complain they didn't hear me speak?
What about the times Jesus said "only believe"?
Mark 5:36 KJV
As soon as Jesus heard the word that was spoken, he saith unto the ruler of the synagogue, Be not afraid, only believe.
Luke 8:50 KJV
But when Jesus heard it , he answered him, saying, Fear not: believe only, and she shall be made whole.
Was he wrong? Was he giving an incomplete message?
So if a dumb man doesn't write it out, he can't be saved? Is there any scripture that says writing it out can replace speaking it out?

I am using a phone now and so would not have the time to Isolate your points one after the other.

If it appears to you or anyone that a contradiction might be imminent in scriptures then it is because you or anyone else is isolating the imports of the verses and not lapping them based on precepts which we are told to do.

Of course, in John 3:16 Jesus said he that believes in me will not perish but have everlasting life. The question that should follow is "How do I believe?". (Caveat: this word in Greek as used here actually means Faith). Jesus and Paul will then say, "you believe with your heart". Then a question that would follow is, "is it possible for someone to believe in his heart and then deny Jesus with his mouth?" And Jesus will say "Yes, that's why I said anyone who denies me in front of men, he will I deny in front of my Father" and if Jesus denies you infront of his father, it means you ain't entering into heaven.

Thus, believing (mental assent) + (declaring/Confessing) = Faith. And that's what Paul said in Romans 10:10.

Concerning the man that was impotent at Lystra. Maybe I need to take a few steps back to explain myself. In Acts 14:7 yes the bible says they had preached the gospel but then it puts a full stop. They didn't stop after that day and he didn't only preach once. How do I know? Because before verse 8 begins many well organised marginal bibles place the (Paragraph sign, written like an inverted P) to show that some period may have passed before the verse 8 happened.

In any case, Paul perceived that the man had faith to be healed. Which means the man had believed the gospel preached about Jesus and his power (through his name) to heal the sick. So when the man had believed that aspect Paul could perceive that the man now had FAITH to be healed. That's why when he told the man to get up the man responded without flinching.

In the real sense of the word an unsaved man cannot receive the Holy Spirit. But (if you speak in tongues) you will know that the Holy spirit doesn't possess a saved man and cause him to speak in tongues. He will only give you the utterance if you open your mouth to speak. That's what I am saying about Cornelius and his folks. They believed the message Peter preached (so they got right with God) then they opened their mouths to speak and their salvation became consummate. The fact that tongues came out was God's way of showing the Jews that the Gentiles were welcome into his fold. That was God's confirmation to Peter and not the other way around.

Angels and Demons don't confirm your salvation for God or what not. They can only tell you are saved when you speak. The Philippians 2 says every tongue is to declare/confess that Jesus is Lord-That's salvation.

God doesn't confirm salvation in our hearts. Paul said he confirms believing. When we speak he confirms salvation. That's why even though God knows our hearts and thoughts he still told us to pray. Jesus didn't pray in his heart- he always prayed out that's why people could record his prayer points.

In Mark 5:36 and Luke 8:50, those stories had nothing to do with salvation but we could still learn from them. The ruler of the synagogue came to ask Jesus to heal his sick daughter (he believed Jesus could so he acted by asking him to). Jesus was on his way there when people came to tell him not to bother as the girl had just died. Jesus then said to the man "do not be afraid: only believe". The 'believe' as used there had to be exactly what the man had already done in asking Jesus to come heal the girl in the first place. That's what I am talking about: the man expressed his faith by speaking to Jesus to come heal. Now they need more than healing- a resurrection is required. So Jesus tells the man to ONLY do what he had done before which was to "express his belief" that Jesus could do it.

What I said about the dumb man is that he must SHOW; ACT; EXPRESS his belief to become SAVED according to biblical accounts. Writing it down was my own addition. Indeed I said he should use as much sign language as possible to declare his faith for faith begins at the heart but ends up being expressed.

Afterall Out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth SPEAKS. And Paul said we too having the same Spirit of FAITH believe and therefore we SPEAK.

Candour: Yes. They had the spirit of God which could have made them perceive or discern the man's belief

Acts 14:9-10 KJV
The same heard Paul speak: who stedfastly beholding him, and perceiving that he had faith to be healed, [10] Said with a loud voice, Stand upright on thy feet. And he leaped and walked.

If Paul could perceive someone else's faith, Peter or Luke could have too and of course God would have perceived it too. In any case, if Luke had written that they left without mentioning their conversion, the loss would be ours as we wouldn't have heard that testimony, not Cornelius's because who validated their salvation? Peter, Luke or God?

God (and His word) validates a man's salvation. What does God's word say?

As per Paul the scripture said Paul looking at the man steadfastly and perceiving that he had faith to be healed. The man already had faith in God he was already a christian listening to Paul teach about Jesus.

When they spoke, the world knew they were saved. They were saved before the holy ghost came on them unless you want me to believe the spirit of God filled a sinner who then spoke in tongues and then became saved.

A man believes in his heart first, and becomes right but he has to OPEN his mouth to experience salvation. Cornelius and his household believed the message Peter preached and became right but when they OPENED their mouths to speak Peter and co could then tell they were saved.

35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.

36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?

37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

Philip could only baptize the Eunuch after he had expressed his belief.

When they spoke, the world knew they were saved. They were saved before the holy ghost came on them unless you want me to believe the spirit of God filled a sinner who then spoke in tongues and then became saved.

When they opened their mouths to speak, that is when Peter could confirm they were saved. Speaking in tongues was the bonus.

I'll say the speaking part is for the benefit of the the world to confirm your salvation before the world as a form of witness to them

It is not only for the benefit of the world; it is for the benefit of Heaven and hell too. Angels and demons have to know where you stand. That's how they could know the 7 sons of Sceva. Demons cannot read minds or see spirits. They observe our words and conduct. That's why WORDS are important- Very.


Philippians 2:10-11King James Version (KJV)

10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Jesus Christ, most times would say "only believe".

Do you think Rom 10:10 at variance with the below?

John 3:16, 18 KJV
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. [18] He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Believing starts it: after we believe we get right but we must speak out based on what we believe. It is the spoken word that activates it if you please. That's why I made references to when Jesus said "If you believe anything [like Jesus is Lord of my life] in your heart (without doubting) and declare it with your mouth, you will have what you say". You will have the [Jesus is Lord of my life] when you SAY it.


Matthew 12:37King James Version (KJV)
37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

How will the dumb get saved?

On a serious note- dumbness is an evil spirit. If you cast it out in the name of Jesus, the person will speak out and be saved. But if one doesn't function on such level. You can make them make as much sign language or even writing the words out so as to confirm it. It is very important.

shdemidemi: What is salvation as used in Romans 1:16

I didn't ask^^ I asked vv

1. What does the power unto salvation mean? Explain it in line with 1 Thessalonians 1:5

I know what salvation is I want to know what Paul meant by "the gospel is the power unto salvation" and how it relates to this

1 thess 1:5 describes this same power that comes by the gospel of Jesus Christ, the power unto salvation and the advent of the Holy Ghost who is our comforter.

What is the power that comes by the gospel and what is it used for?

Acts 1:8King James Version (KJV)
8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you:

That word for Power here is Dunamis in Greek. This is the same power Paul referred to in all scripture. Care to add it in your explanation?

Romans 8
11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.


When will our mortal bodies be quickened?

This is when a glorified body will replace the present body of flesh we carry at this moment. The same way Christ was raised from the dead, we shall be raised with another body that isn't connected to sin or the world.

3 things make your explanation above null and void and they are:

-The Spirit does the quickening as he dwells in us. When will he dwell in us?
-Paul said he will quicken; give life; strengthen our MORTAL bodies. The glorified body is not MORTAL it is IMMORTAL and it is not quickened from the old. It is a NEW and indestructible body that requires NO quickening.
-He didn't say he will raise our mortal bodies but that he will quicken; vitalize; strengthen it as he dwells in us.

Eternal life is a blissful and endless life with God

The Greek for eternal life is Zoe. Do you know what Zoe means?

Now, we must understand the setting of the bible to avoid confusion. We do have doctrines that explains the entire mystery that surround our life as Christians. When we read our bible, we must take note of who is speaking, to whom and why.

When we read books like James, Peter, John, we will sometimes notice contradictions when we juxtapose these books with the book of Paul. James, Peter, John were not teachers of grace, they observed and maintained their temple worship and the legalistic form of life the Jews were known for. They wrote and addressed their books primarily to the Jews.

The books written to the Jews and to the church have raised different factions of Christians ... Some believe righteousness is by keeping the law through self righteousness and the other believe righteousness can only come by grace alone.

Apostle Paul became the minister God raised specially for the Gentiles to preach a message that breaks whatever barrier that made the Jews feel they were more accepted. He taught a message of grace addressed to the church.

In Acts 26, Paul explained all Jesus said to Him, he wrote and unveiled secrets that were hid in God to the church in the epistles. Paul explained all we needed to know as Christians even how to be saved was explained by apostle Paul only.

If we must understand what Sin means, we must go to the book of Romans 6,7 for full details. We must also understand that a regenerated spirit otherwise known as the new man is the real man that does not sin.

These two personalities were described by Paul- he made it really clear in the verse below-


25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

"I myself' in this verse is the real man that became a Christian and the body/the flesh we live in is the container that carries the real Christian.

How does it explain what John said in the verse of scripture given? Ok let me fix Paul in the mix. What did he mean by?


Romans 6:14King James Version (KJV)
14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.


Notice Paul said sin SHALL not have dominion over you and not sin SHOULD not? How come sin still dominates some Christians?

As long as you don't stop others from using medicine that is fit for an ailment.

I have never stopped anyone from using medicine- Medicine is good. But what becomes of someone when the medicine doesn't work or the ailment has no cure?

As for me, like Paul I try to keep my mind at rest in plenty or in nothing, in sickness and in health knowing fully well that God's grace is sufficient at all times.

I understand the body gets weaker, it depicts and loses vigour as i get older while my spirit man grows. If I have headache, I use panadol, it works like magic and it is available. That is for my flesh. If I need to feed my real man, my soul man, I pray, I study scriptures.

The word of God is Marpe to our flesh too. Jesus said Man shall not live by bread alone. He didn't say man shall not live by bread at all. The word of God still works the Spirit; soul and then FLESH of a man.

Shdemidemi,

1. What does the power unto salvation mean? Explain it in line with 1 Thessalonians 1:5 because the same author communicated both thoughts.

2. When you say the 'entire doctrinal books' does Romans 8: 11 qualify as part of the one's that have no importance to the flesh?

What is Eternal life and how do I know I have it?

3. Explain 1 John 3:9 in the light of "the bible never says Christians will not commit sins".

4. Does a message affect you simply because you heard it or because you acted on it?

As per sickness, I cannot be sick and yes I have commanded sicknesses to leave and all the times it checked out. I have applied what I have seen in the message. Have you?

Candour: They heard them speaking in tongues glorifying God so of course that enabled them to know God had done it again.

The question is, when did this salvation happen? Do you agree they were saved before they started glorifying God or you believe they became saved only after the holy ghost came on them and enabled them to speak and glorify God?

At which point did they get saved? Before or after they spoke in tongues? Or during their speaking in tongues?

You still dont understand me. Assuming they said no word and just listened to the words of Peter and then Peter left, would Luke still say they were Saved? Or would Luke not say they listened to the words and then we left?

If you ask me when they got saved I will say when Peter heard them speak in tongues and glorify God. If you ask me why I will refer you to Romans 10:9-10.

Paul said you only get right with God through your heart but that you get saved through your mouth. What say you?

shdemidemi: You didn't have to twist Paul's words to justify what you probably don't understand in another book. He was not speaking of commanding anything to life in that book, using such chapter for such purpose will be adulterating and playing down the essence of the chapter.
My bro.. The four gospel books are not doctrines written primarily to you and I, may be if you start to understand that bit, things will be clearer. These were books, Apostle Paul never saw before he started his ministry. The church as it is today was not built on what Jesus told the disciples but on what He said after His resurrection.
The four gospels are not the New Testament, they are the link between the old and the new. The New Testament kick started in full throttle after Christ rose, this brought about the dispensation of the Holy Spirit.
Jesus spoke to His disciples, He gave them power to wrought miracles as a prove to unbelievers and doubters that they were backed by God. Does God need to prove Himself today? No. The bible is more than sufficient.
From a Christian perspective, we were not the audience at the time Jesus was speaking these things. We can learn from everything that was said and written but they can't be practiced as if they were statements addressed to us for practice.
If anything must be practiced today, we must learn from the doctrine of Grace which accepts, take and trust God at His Word.
Bro, no man will make a mountain move today, we must stop the deceit and start dividing the word as instructed by scriptures.

I said Paul used Romans 10:9-10 to command something to life? Can you show me such a post?

As per the 4 books, don't they apply to Christians? And don't we still have doubters and unbelievers now so why would God stop proving himself today?

When you say Paul didn't see the books do you also consider that when Paul was writing his letters he didn't expect them to become scriptures? Was Paul writing his letters cognizant that James would write his and Peter would write his as well?

Which of Christ's post-resurrection messages negates the teachings of faith as described in the 4 books? That can help us decide whether we were audiences or not because I am very sure you were not a member of the audience when Paul made his own teachings.

How do we take God at his words? For example in Colossians Paul said whatever we do in Word or Deed we are to do all in the name of Jesus. How do I apply it to my life?

I would leave the issue of mountains for now as the jury is still out WRT what deceit is and what is not or what rightfully dividing the word entails.

Candour: Dont put the cart before the horse. See this sequence

Peter preached-Cornelius believed-God sent Holy Ghost-Cornelius spoke in tongues glorifying God

What saved Cornelius? The words he spoke AFTER the Holy Ghost came on him? When did he confess his belief in God for salvation through Christ?

You don't understand me. While preaching the gospel, Luke said the Holy Spirit fell on them and then they spoke in tongues and magnified God. I agree.

What I am asking Luke is how did he know the Holy Spirit fell on them? Wasn't it because of what he heard them SPEAK?

shdemidemi: Mark 16
20 And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.

1 Thessalonians 1:5
For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance; as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake.

How does the above relate with the power of the gospel unto salvation to anyone who believe -Romans 1:16?



One thing you and people like jo refuse to understand through scripture is how God sees the present world. You find yourself running after what unbelievers run after, forgetting that your time around, no matter how long it seem to you, is really short. You put the soul secondary and the quest to gratify the flesh is your primary concern. Anywhere the bible refer to soul, you convert it to flesh because of the love you have for your present and fading habitat.

Come to think of it, if Christians don't fall sick like you claim, what's the need for people like jo?

You didn't answer the question. I said Romans 1:16 means that God uses the Gospel to show his power to save people whether Jews or Gentiles. You said I am twisting the meaning. So I showed you other instances where what I said applies.

As per converting where the bible says soul to flesh, can you show me one such instance or scripture or are you saying Christ died to heal our souls?

On the issue of why Christians fall sick, I believe I said Christians SHOULDN'T fall sick. If you still see Christians that fall sick it is the same reason Christians still sin even after Christ saved them from all their sins. Abi didn't Christ save them?

Candour: Acts 10:44-48 KJV
While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. [45] And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. [46] For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, [47] Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? [48] And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

While Peter was still speaking. While the Jews who came to preach to Cornelius didn't know what was going on in his mind about the message he was hearing, God broke protocol by sending the holy ghost on him and his household before Mr evangelist was through. Cornelius and his people were saved.

How will you explain this particular incident?

That's easy, How did the Jews know that Cornelius and his household were saved? How did they know the Holy Spirit had fallen on them?

Did they see the spirit enter or did they hear them SPEAK?

With the heart a man's believes and becomes righteous BUT with the mouth he confesses his belief and becomes saved. Romans 10:9-10

Shdemidemi,

Mark 11:22-24 NLT

Then Jesus said to the disciples, “Have faith in God. I tell you the truth, you can say to this mountain, ‘May you be lifted up and thrown into the sea,’ and it will happen. But you must really believe it will happen and have no doubt in your heart. I tell you, you can pray for anything, and if you believe that you’ve received it, it will be yours.

Matthew 17:20 NLT

“You don’t have enough faith,” Jesus told them. “I tell you the truth, if you had faith even as small as a mustard seed, you could say to this mountain, ‘Move from here to there,’ and it would move. Nothing would be impossible. ”

Please explain these verses to me. I'll wait.

shdemidemi: Hahaha, you don't get tired of twisting scriptures, do you?
Why should we leave imprisonment, if I must ask?

What did Paul mean in 1 Thessalonians 1: 5? Juxtapose your explanation with Mark 16:20. I will wait.

As per imprisonment, it is debatable seeing that scripture didn't expressly tell us that Jesus saved us from it. But the scriptures expressly state he saved us from Sicknesses and Diseases.

For with the heart a man believes unto righteousness BUT with the mouth, confession is made unto salvation.

You're the Shakespearean, you should tell me. What does the word 'but' in English signify?

BabaGnoni: ♬ And Tommy doesn’t know what day it is♩♪
♫ He doesn’t know who Jesus is or what praying is
♩♩ How can he be saved ♪♩
From the eternal grave?

- Tommy, by the way, is a "deaf, dumb and blind kid."

shdemidemi: The problem with your form of Christianity is that every challenge is devil-
Joseph goes to prison- devil
Jesus killed on the cross - devil
Apostles died for the gospel - devil
Job lost all he had - devil
Peter went through a test- devil
Does it ever occur to you that God is in control of every life that is in Christ and He has a purpose even when we don't seem to be comfortable?
My man, even when God is working on you you will pray yourself out of God's will simply because discomfort equals devil's work in your book.
People can't be stupid forever, they are thinking, they are realising things don't add up with teachings like yours. Acclaimed miracle and healing ministries have left many more frustrated, poorer, deluded than they were before they fell in their snare. Through your kind, many have converted to other religions, some have become atheist all together.
The power of the gospel is unto salvation (romans 1:16) and not a power for charlatans to explore.

God is not responsible for sicknesses and Diseases. That part is clear enough. Let us leave Imprisonment and what not.

Romans 1:16 means God uses the Gospel to show his power to save people.

Joagbaje is right about Ebola: JESUS is the cure (I will put a period here) and not let badbelleism destroy my life.

nannymcphee: God my dear, considers the heart first above everything
Mat15:18
8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.

Sure, What is to be 'declared' should be believed with the heart first and I said so. But one will not experience the reality of what is believed except it is declared and that was the point I was getting at. They work viz-a-viz. I could believe with my heart that if I declared with my mouth "move!" the mountain will, but if I do not actually say it out the Mountain would not.

What is sad is that we didn't look disappointed with the draw. The players approached the final moments like they were doing exactly what the Manager wanted.

Very poor performance all round. We moved the ball too slowly at times and looked indecisive in the final third. Ozil has been poor since he returned. Sanogo did nothing all game and Wenger made the substitutions a tad late.

I think we are playing worse than last season and I blame wenger soley for this. We don't have a Striker amongst other things. It's looking like another Trophyless year.

Meanwhile the Referees have been very poor in the Arsenal games I have seen so far including the UEFACL.

Candour: @the bolded, i knew you are very vainglorious but You're also a liar. If you're not, tell us what was used in 1Tim 5:23 to describe Timothy's "infirmities"? Astheneia or Astheneo? Tell us and get shamed.

1 Timothy 5:23King James Version (KJV)
23 Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities.

The word infirmities as used here is astheneia. Like I said to trustman Infirmties encompasses sicknesses and diseases but diseases and sicknesses do not encompass infirmities. And astheneia was used by Paul only to describe a weakness and not a disease or sickness. When Paul talked about sicknesses he used astheneo. Therefore in this case Paul said use a little wine to strengthen your oftenly weak stomach. I know some translators translated the word to mean illnesses, but they would be wrong because Paul was so articulate he knew when to use words like astheneo, astheneia and even asthenes. If he knew to use astheneo for Trophimus then he knew to use astheneia for Timothy.

If you were honest, you'd have known and admited that both can be used interchangeably and were indeed used interchangeably in scripture.

E.g astheneia for infirmity in John 5:5, 1Tim 5:23, diseases in Acts 28:9 and sickness in John 11:4 and astheneo for weak in 1Cor 8:12 and 2Cor 11:21

I am honest with myself and for those words to be used interchangeably then there should be some consistency in usage even as we consider the user. In John 5:5 the (man was weak in his legs- he could not walk; used to describe impotency; not used by Paul). 1 Corinthians 8:12 the word used was asthenes and it meant weak conscience. In 2 Corinthians 11:21, asthenekanem was used (only once all scripture) by the very articulate Paul to refer to a lack of confidence (mental weakness). Astheneia was used more than 15times to refer to anything but sickness and disease while Astheneo was used 17times to refer to sickness and not weakness.

If only we would learn to understand the writer.

Galatians 4:13 KJV
Ye know how through infirmity of the flesh I preached the gospel unto you at the first.

Paul said he preached to them through the infirmity that was in his flesh. See the next verse. What would make a man loathsome, likely to be rejected and despised? Physical weakness or a [s]sickness that could be revolting e.g a smelly sore or like the woman with the issue of blood[/s]?

Paul said infirmity of the flesh/body and not infirmity in the body/flesh. He meant he was weak, beaten, flogged badly with scars and marks all over his body etc. yet the Galatians didn't feel ashamed of him. They accepted his message.

Galatians 4:14 KJV
And my temptation which was in my flesh ye despised not, nor rejected; but received me as an angel of God, even as Christ Jesus.

The floggings, beatings, hunger and imprisonment that Paul received, couldnt have made him "so weak" to the [s]point of possibly being despised and rejected by the Galatians[/s] unless you're telling us he got an infection from his injuries and I don't need to tell you that an infection is a sickness. In fact a very serious disease

He wasn't rejected or despised, that's what he said and NO he had no infection from his injuries. If a snake bite couldn't infect him, the beatings wouldn't too.

See when Paul was stoned, so badly that the people believed they had killed him

Acts 14:19-20 KJV
And there came thither certain Jews from Antioch and Iconium, who persuaded the people, and, having stoned Paul, drew him out of the city, supposing he had been dead. [20] Howbeit, as the disciples stood round about him, he rose up, and came into the city: and the next day he departed with Barnabas to Derbe.

Yet the believers stood by him, not despising or rejecting his battered body.

Finally!! A whiff of breakthrough! This is what I have been saying all along man. This was the infirmity of the flesh- his batterings, beatings, stonings due to the persecution he suffered. That's why he used astheneia and not astheneo. He was not SICK or DISEASED.

If you're a honest person, you dont need Greek studies to understand these scriptures because any christian can be sick including you.

I am an Honest person and I need the Greek studies for clarity as most of the translators only understood the Greek language but not the Holy Spirit's.


Romans 8:26King James Version (KJV)
26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

See the translators calling the Holy Spirit; the creator of heaven and earth; the first person in the Godhead to be introduced; the power of God; Author of the scriptures etc. an "it" and describing him as an "itself" simply because of the word Pneuma translated Spirit or Wind which seems impersonal.

No sir, I will use the Greek lexicon. And like Jesus and Paul, I will never be sick in my life!!! Amen.